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Powerleveling and MateriaFollow

#1 Oct 07 2011 at 9:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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I had been hearing crazy things about the speed of powerleveling, and with my current distaste for low level XP I decided that my friend and I would powerlevel each other a bit to alleviate the annoyance. So he got on his 30 MRD (both of us re-rolled somewhat recently) and we went over by bloodshore and found an awesome camp with moles in the 15-19 range. He would warmonger them and end up with anywhere from 3-7 links. He'd bash em all down with skull sunder, broad swing, etc. and I would get chain 7 and 350 XP per mob. It was pretty unbelievable. I took CON 1-14 in 30 minutes, then swapped to LNC and did 9-14, then THM 1-5 and MRD 8-12. So yeah, powerleveling is unbelievably OP... but I also noticed something very cool. All of the gear I was wearing went FULL spiritbond just in the time I got CON 1-14.

So apparently, powerleveling lowbie jobs is an AMAZING way to make materia. I'm not sure if this is working as intended, but I'm assuming it is since it seems materia growth is just based off of XP gained, and Yoshi-P already mentioned that he is fine with powerleveling. Just thought I'd throw this heads up to players and see what everyone thinks. Should powerleveling like this be removed? With how slow low levels are, will this just replace soloing and partying until higher levels? Do we want that in FFXIV? Thoughts?
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#2 Oct 07 2011 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Can I ask about your gear - was this brand new gear on a new toon or dated gear? It may have been a rumor - but people were talking about Dated gear being slower/faster then new gear.

Either way - Materia in itself is a pretty big investment in time, being able to gind it out like that isn't a really bad thing. The more accessible Materia becomes - then more feasible it becomes for people getting new jobs or eventually even new players to grab lower level materia and toss into gear to help give them extra 'oomph' leveling up.

The cooler thing is being able to spiritbind your gear as you level up. Once you outlevel a piece - perhaps in theory it's completely Spiritbound and when you upgrade, you just compress it into Materia.. although you lose the gear, it's still a pretty effecient way to get Materia as you progress through the game that is basically available to every low level character moving through the game.

Powerleveling is another beast entirely. I'm sure you've seen the massive Lodestone thread about it - there's always Detractors, Passives and Promoters for everything.

Despite all the arguements - my personal stance is that it's "not a terrible thing" to have in the game. Do I think it will be throttled down? Probably a bit yeah, but they will not ever make it useless.

This weekend - I intend to do the same thing as you guys did. I have a 32 THM and my friend has PGL much lower - we want to play together and I will fell many beasts for him to catch up to me. Between doing leves together on my lower job, power leveling and him doing his own thing for missions - I think it's a pretty fair method honestly.

My fiance hasn't touched FFXIV in forever (we both played since pre-release, but it was so bad for her she does nothing but talk about how terrible the experience was for her at launch, lol) - but she's thinking about it now with all the new features. Why doesn't she want to start something new (she runs a WoW guild also, so she wont play as often).. ? It's going to take her so much time to 'catch up' to me and our friends. Missions, questing, Grand Company stuff, etc... those eat up enough time of playing 'catch up' even to me at rank 32. Then you want cross-class skills, etc... If I can help her catch up to me and it encourages her to play because she doesn't feel so overwhealmed - then so be it.

My brother, a FFXI vet like myself, also wants to get into FFXIV but he's a (new) physics teacher - so the time investment to "catch up" is staggering to him. What's wrong with wanting him to help catch up to my rank to do stuff together and move onto endgame with the rest of our FFXI friends who are capped?

I haven't powerleveled anyone or been powerleveled - so I can't say how OP it is personally - maybe it needs to be toned down a bit. The Development team mentioned it having a cap - does it seem the XP recieved is capped? Were you guys partied or were you just killing after he engaged? Maybe the rate is too high at the moment - but ultimately I'm not against the system.
#3 Oct 07 2011 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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EmotionBlues wrote:
Can I ask about your gear - was this brand new gear on a new toon or dated gear? It may have been a rumor - but people were talking about Dated gear being slower/faster then new gear.


Some was brand new, some was dated. The rate of growth seems to be based per item. I noticed that some seemed to be moving faster than others, but I couldn't really figure out a correlation. For instance, my bandana was the slowest (not dated), yet my body piece (also not dated) was one of the first, and both were similar level.

EmotionBlues wrote:
Either way - Materia in itself is a pretty big investment in time, being able to gind it out like that isn't a really bad thing. The more accessible Materia becomes - then more feasible it becomes for people getting new jobs or eventually even new players to grab lower level materia and toss into gear to help give them extra 'oomph' leveling up.

The cooler thing is being able to spiritbind your gear as you level up. Once you outlevel a piece - perhaps in theory it's completely Spiritbound and when you upgrade, you just compress it into Materia.. although you lose the gear, it's still a pretty effecient way to get Materia as you progress through the game that is basically available to every low level character moving through the game.


Yep, and from what I noticed, the low level materia isn't OP, so it's certainly not a big deal. Of the ones I turned into materia I got: +10 HP twice, +6 attack twice, +7 magic defense, and +1 blind resist (yuck). It's pretty much like equipping an extra accessory onto each piece of gear. Honestly, I'm really loving the materia system. I was nervous it would be TOO OP, but so far it seems to scale appropriately.

EmotionBlues wrote:
Powerleveling is another beast entirely. I'm sure you've seen the massive Lodestone thread about it - there's always Detractors, Passives and Promoters for everything.

Despite all the arguements - my personal stance is that it's "not a terrible thing" to have in the game. Do I think it will be throttled down? Probably a bit yeah, but they will not ever make it useless.

This weekend - I intend to do the same thing as you guys did. I have a 32 THM and my friend has PGL much lower - we want to play together and I will fell many beasts for him to catch up to me. Between doing leves together on my lower job, power leveling and him doing his own thing for missions - I think it's a pretty fair method honestly.


The only red flag I can see is that this system once again kind of sticks it to newer players that might not have an LS or know anyone yet. I guess on the plus side it will force them to learn their jobs, but in the current leveling system I still foresee a lot of new players quitting because of the steep initial curve.
EmotionBlues wrote:

My fiance hasn't touched FFXIV in forever (we both played since pre-release, but it was so bad for her she does nothing but talk about how terrible the experience was for her at launch, lol) - but she's thinking about it now with all the new features. Why doesn't she want to start something new (she runs a WoW guild also, so she wont play as often).. ? It's going to take her so much time to 'catch up' to me and our friends. Missions, questing, Grand Company stuff, etc... those eat up enough time of playing 'catch up' even to me at rank 32. Then you want cross-class skills, etc... If I can help her catch up to me and it encourages her to play because she doesn't feel so overwhealmed - then so be it.

My brother, a FFXI vet like myself, also wants to get into FFXIV but he's a (new) physics teacher - so the time investment to "catch up" is staggering to him. What's wrong with wanting him to help catch up to my rank to do stuff together and move onto endgame with the rest of our FFXI friends who are capped?


I have very similar thoughts on this. I like the idea of being able to quickly catch up to your friends. Personally, I think the powerleveling is fine... perhaps a LITTLE OP, but not a big deal.

EmotionBlues wrote:
I haven't powerleveled anyone or been powerleveled - so I can't say how OP it is personally - maybe it needs to be toned down a bit. The Development team mentioned it having a cap - does it seem the XP recieved is capped? Were you guys partied or were you just killing after he engaged? Maybe the rate is too high at the moment - but ultimately I'm not against the system.


We were grouped. I didn't even have to touch the mobs. The "cap", at least where we were, seemed to be about 380 XP on a chain #7 with link bonus. Not sure if thatwould have been higher if he was fighting higher level mobs or not though.
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#4 Oct 07 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ugh, I really hope powerleveling doesn't become the norm; it really doesn't make for a very entertaining experience. Powerleveling is essentially just soloing... but while invincible; how boring.

I'd rather take on some decently challenging monsters alongside a friend or group of friends than mindlessly grind while being spam-healed, with neither risk nor challenge. Yawn~ >_<
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#5 Oct 07 2011 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
Ugh, I really hope powerleveling doesn't become the norm; it really doesn't make for a very entertaining experience. Powerleveling is essentially just soloing... but while invincible; how boring.

I'd rather take on some decently challenging monsters alongside a friend or group of friends than mindlessly grind while being spam-healed, with neither risk nor challenge. Yawn~ >_<


powerleveling isn't even THAT hard. You can literally just AFK at a camp if you want and have someone kill everything. >.>
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#6 Oct 07 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Yep, and from what I noticed, the low level materia isn't OP, so it's certainly not a big deal. Of the ones I turned into materia I got: +10 HP twice, +6 attack twice, +7 magic defense, and +1 blind resist (yuck). It's pretty much like equipping an extra accessory onto each piece of gear. Honestly, I'm really loving the materia system. I was nervous it would be TOO OP, but so far it seems to scale appropriately.


Pretty much some nice stuff for lower level folks. The +6 attack twice Materia is actually pretty intruiging, I didn't realize they had put that type of stuff in.

Quote:
Ugh, I really hope powerleveling doesn't become the norm; it really doesn't make for a very entertaining experience. Powerleveling is essentially just soloing... but while invincible; how boring.


I don't think it will be. An individual has to be willing to put forth the time for another individual for power leveling to happen. You're not going to see strangers helping out strangers with power leveling very often (if ever) - you'll see LS mates who agree to trade off for power leveling or friends helping a new friend out. Ultimately however, most folks are pretty self-centered when it comes to their game time - people willing to remove time from their day to help someone else can do so of their own accord but I don't think it's going to be all over the place at all. I will say that I've met A LOT of people who are friendly and will help people - trading mats, making new cobalt gear, donating ingots to folks - I've seen a lot of this in my LS but that's still different then spending 3-4 hours killing stuff for someone.

Either way, ultimately it's not a terrible thing to have in game in my opinion.
#7 Oct 07 2011 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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One thing I just thought of that does make me a little nervous... what would happen if I were to just buy a few level 50 gear pieces, go out on lowbie jobs, get powerleveled, and build the materia up? Will it be just as fast, and if so, will those materia be FAR overpowered for a low level player?

If so, this could be a big time exploit. Players could just keep creating new characters on their server, have someone either trade them high level gear or money to buy it, turn it to materia, and then either profit big time selling it or else equip it on other lowbie jobs and be crazy OP. Unfortunately I don't have the gil to test this, but if someone else does, please feel free to post your results. I could see this being a MAJOR source of RMT tactics if it's possible, so hopefully you can only build spiritbond on equip around your level.
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#8 Oct 07 2011 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
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Pretty sure each materia bracket requires more and more experience.

31 bracket requires about 200k I think? you can expect them to be full going from 31-35 or so.

41-45 could be 400k exp, any level 40ish player should be able to get 25-30k exp an hour, much faster than any power level.

Edited, Oct 7th 2011 2:16pm by FluttershyPony
#9 Oct 07 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
One thing I just thought of that does make me a little nervous... what would happen if I were to just buy a few level 50 gear pieces, go out on lowbie jobs, get powerleveled, and build the materia up? Will it be just as fast, and if so, will those materia be FAR overpowered for a low level player?

If so, this could be a big time exploit. Players could just keep creating new characters on their server, have someone either trade them high level gear or money to buy it, turn it to materia, and then either profit big time selling it or else equip it on other lowbie jobs and be crazy OP. Unfortunately I don't have the gil to test this, but if someone else does, please feel free to post your results. I could see this being a MAJOR source of RMT tactics if it's possible, so hopefully you can only build spiritbond on equip around your level.


Not a point of concern, the dated armor grade 5 needs 200k to fill the bar, when broken gives a lower grade than a none dated. The new armor if you did not note for the most part is required job and level. On my pug i noted that in 100k exp gain all the stuff i have equipped at 20 was full or close to, all dated armor that was above my level got up maybe 1/2 way...
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#10 Oct 07 2011 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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Excellent. Thanks for the info.
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#11 Oct 07 2011 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
I don't mind it when other people power lvl, but personally I don't like to do it myself often. To each his own.
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#12 Oct 07 2011 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
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There's a rather long thread about power leveling in the official forums. I think it's definitely a problem if PL eclipses the "default method", though many seem to think anyone wanting to nerf it are simply trying to ruin their fun, which of course is ludicrous.

Edited, Oct 7th 2011 10:03pm by Omena
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#13 Oct 07 2011 at 8:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wow seriously? Ruin their fun? How is it fun to do nothing but stand around and soak up exp? Whatever floats their boat I guess.
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#14 Oct 07 2011 at 10:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was concerned about this from the start, and wasn't happy with Yoshida's acceptance of extreme powerleveling. Which is what this is, the EXP people are getting is absurd. The fact that it progresses Spiritbond at an incredible rate compounds the problem in a major way.. And I don't even believe the EXP granted upon completing a leve increases Spiritbond?

This cannot possibly be how they want their game to be, they should have seen this coming.
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#15 Oct 07 2011 at 11:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Coyohma wrote:
I was concerned about this from the start, and wasn't happy with Yoshida's acceptance of extreme powerleveling. Which is what this is, the EXP people are getting is absurd. The fact that it progresses Spiritbond at an incredible rate compounds the problem in a major way.. And I don't even believe the EXP granted upon completing a leve increases Spiritbond?

This cannot possibly be how they want their game to be, they should have seen this coming.


The thing is that 50 isn't really the cap. The Ifrit fight has shown that materia isn't just a side project to enhance gear, it's a whole new system of leveling.

And while spiritbond does fill if a character is powerleveled, the materia generated from low-level gear is tier I or II, which makes it less desirable for higher levels.

I'm not saying I advocate powerleveling, but at this point in the history of the game, what more can long grinds to cap really teach us? Any gamer who takes on an MMO knows tanks tank, DDs deal damage and mage heal -- even the ones who think they're DDs.

There's a larger scope to what SE is doing here. The unspoken motto I keep trying to tell people for XIV is this: "Easy to start, difficult to master."

If a person wants to afk their way to cap, that's their prerogative. They spend the money to play, and they can play their way. XIV is all about having the experience you want to have. Players can easily rank a job to 50 and have fun running raids and such with friends. Or they can be super dedicated taking the time to have max tier IV materia on all HQ gear. And at no point do either of those extremes step on each other's toes.

#16 Oct 08 2011 at 12:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I never knew one party in my whole 3+ years playing FF11 that would say no to a "PL". I think the people complaining about PL are just a vocal minority and hope Yoshi ignores them. The fact is , people are not always going to have someone who can PL them, most other players have other things to do and can't spend all their time PLing. (Though I guess with the lack of endgame content right now that might be a little different...) But once the game balances out, I don't think it will be much different from any other game. Some people will have PLs and others won't. Who cares?

P.S.: There's plenty of people who can grind there way to cap and not have skill...so I think the whole argument that it gimps players is silly.
#17 Oct 08 2011 at 2:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I have no concern for how other people get to max level and i think the logical argument that it invalidates my efforts is rendered irrelevant by the consensus's assessment of virtual worth.

Case and point: FFXIV is searching for a model that doesn't seek your approval but more to validate what your input into the game is worth what you expect to receive.


I understand my post is overly succinct but i hope you put in the effort to calculate a response that suits your understanding.

Edited, Oct 8th 2011 4:54am by KenJammin
#18 Oct 08 2011 at 2:54 AM Rating: Good
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I think the point people are trying to make is that if someone jumps alot of levels within on fight and the becomes reliant on not have to fight for themselves (worst case scenario), then they wont know "how to play" by the time they hit the current cap.

I can see Yoshi wanting other higher levels to help lower levels without restrictions and being rewarded, but the exp rate is a little too high for that. Just dont want people not understanding certain abilities/ how to play a certain class by the time they hit 50, since everyone is having to relearn things at this point / skip over certain areas/items. Its nothing about racing, bragging rights, entitlement, or anything of that nature.

Maybe i'm over thinking it...but if people jump pretty far in levels in a short time, that kinds kills the usefulness of lower level items implemented since you'd skip right over em (especially since now there is a decent amount of variation every 3-6 levels in equipment). Or maybe only a few people will do it because frankly...it's pretty boring.

I guess the actual rate isnt a bad thing, but the rate given to parties with larger differences in player level should be toned down. I dont think exp rates should be anywhere near XI levels...but not everyone should be able to blitz through 10-15 levels in a flash (exaggeration).

EDIT: Hey mages can do damage too. They just need to think about how and when/if its safe to do so.

Edited, Oct 8th 2011 3:56am by Teknoman
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#19 Oct 08 2011 at 3:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sephrick wrote:
The thing is that 50 isn't really the cap. The Ifrit fight has shown that materia isn't just a side project to enhance gear, it's a whole new system of leveling.

And while spiritbond does fill if a character is powerleveled, the materia generated from low-level gear is tier I or II, which makes it less desirable for higher levels.

I'm not saying I advocate powerleveling, but at this point in the history of the game, what more can long grinds to cap really teach us? Any gamer who takes on an MMO knows tanks tank, DDs deal damage and mage heal -- even the ones who think they're DDs.

There's a larger scope to what SE is doing here. The unspoken motto I keep trying to tell people for XIV is this: "Easy to start, difficult to master."

If a person wants to afk their way to cap, that's their prerogative. They spend the money to play, and they can play their way. XIV is all about having the experience you want to have. Players can easily rank a job to 50 and have fun running raids and such with friends. Or they can be super dedicated taking the time to have max tier IV materia on all HQ gear. And at no point do either of those extremes step on each other's toes.

You compare casual or new players with more hardcore, but what about comparing the former to itself? If you compare a new or casual player who uses a PL to one who doesn't, the difference in progress is astronomical.

How will all those new players feel when getting a party is difficult because a good percentage don't even bother - they get PL'd or wait to be PL'd, rather than party (or do leves) and make negligible progress? How, even when they do get a party or do leves, will those new players feel about their levels or Spiritbond progress when they know how terribly slow it is compared to being powerleveled?

I can tell you I'd have a difficult time getting any of my friends to enjoy the leveling curve in XIV when it is so easily sidestepped. That and, if you sidestep it with PL.. That playstyle bores just about everyone, as it should. If this isn't an unfortunate situation for people to step into, I don't know what would be.
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#20 Oct 08 2011 at 4:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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exactly. if there's one universal rule in MMOs, its that people will always find the best/easiest way to progress and everything else tends to become lol, which is what concerns me about this PL business. i joined an exp party tonight and the leader ended up disbanding before we even left town, due to lack of members. he said he asked his LS, but they were all out PLing each other...

could have just been bad timing, or the fact that a lot of players are probably working on finishing up company quests, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.
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#21 Oct 08 2011 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
I'm having trouble getting EXP solo at level 16. Leves are less than 1000 EXP total, including the SP from enemies. Killing R15 mobs gives 150 Exp. It's painfully slow.

Anyone have any ideas?

If the only reasonable way from 16-22 is PL'ing that is beyond sad.
#22 Oct 08 2011 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well there are sidequests that give decent exp around that level as well. I'd also search different camps designated as hunting grounds (patch notes) for large enemy groups you could chain...or check out that new low level dungeon in La Noscea.
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