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Let's discuss the Past, Present, and Future of FFXIV, Yay!Follow

#1 Oct 09 2011 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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I'm pretty much making this topic to discuss what everybody's feelings are up to this point in time. This will probably be the longest post I've ever posted on a forum but please read as I'd like to know what your guy's thoughts are, good and bad. I'll try not to make a wall of text by breaking this mug up.

First off let me start by saying I myself am genuinely impressed with how things are going. I started out buying the CE with really no information or expectations on the game aside from watching about 10 minutes of a live stream of the beta. I had never played an MMO and did not even know what really en tales in such a game. I bought it on a whim because I love FF and missed the boat on XI back in the day and which I really wanted to play. Little did I know things were not going to live up to what I believe an FF title should be capable of.

For those who followed the development process of this game, what do you think went wrong? I am no specialist on Square's staff but what is with the bashing of Tanaka and his crew. I mean I know the end result, but I also know he helped work on Chrono Cross and Xenogears (2 games I enjoy very much) so I know he's not entirely incompetent.

Was he the head honcho of FF XI that everybody loves so much and just ended up dropping the ball like nobodies business for 14? It's like nobody at Square was watching him and his staff or maybe they just wanted to get the title out the door, because I believe it was around the release of Wow's Cataclysm. Which I still don't understand why they would care "that" much because FF has a huge fanbase regardless of a WOW expansion, or do you believe the rumors of outsourcing the development to save costs? This may be possible as it is not entirely unknown to do to games but if so was Square not even looking at what was going on. I realize Square just isn't what it used to be, but to release a game in the state it was in back in September 2010 is just insane to me. As much as I dislike their last effort, XIII, turned out to be at least it was a very polished game, and I know other people do enjoy it. It just baffles me how they let XIV just crash and burn.

But as for the present state with the release of 1.19, I'm pretty happy. Yoshi-P and crew have delivered time and time again, and I believe they have a good idea where they want to take the game. Albeit it is taking awhile but I am more than okay to wait for a game that will hopefully end up very enjoyable in the end. There are a few ideas I am not entirely pleased with such as the powerleveling because I mean lets be honest it's kinda cheap and your just cheating yourself by not learning the class. It really helps no one. I'm glad they are moving towards more party based play though, because as I said before I had never played an MMO and I thought that is what it was all about. I'm not gonna hate on the people who like to solo though, that's just a choice and a viable option but I feel you shouldn't really complain if it takes longer to get stuff done, as it should imo. As for the difficulty I think there will always be a mixed bag. Games nowadays are easier in general, but it's looking like Yoshi-P and crew know people aren't gonna be pleased with just a walk in the park. I'm glad to read that the new Ifrit battle has been giving people a run for their money and that's just the beginning.

I'd still like to see the economy get evened out somehow, because as of right now it is a mess. I can't remember where I saw it but some video I was watching was of some guy who had like 510,000,000 gil. That's just crazy to me and that's only one person. I'm sure many others have the same thing. I'm no expert on MMO economies but I'm guessing XI wasn't like this. How did XI keep everyone in check. Did things just cost more, harder to earn gil? They've already lowered reward prices for leves, but they've also lowered repairs and chocobo rentals are only 800. Airships are at least decently priced, but there needs to be more gil sinks. Again, what does XI or other MMO's for that matter do?

As for the future I think it has the potential to be a incredibly fun game. A major fear I have though is since they are pretty much redoing everything and they started with a canvas of an incomplete mess. I think a lot of people will just never be satisfied no matter what goes on and may never come back to play. I'm pretty sure those people are waiting for "their" perfect FFXIV to be made and it probably isn't going to please them no matter what. A PS3 release needs to happen decently soon, because it truly is like a "second chance" so to speak. As for me, I've stuck it out this long, but I've also re-rolled my character a couple of times. I've really just been messin' with different classes and servers to see differences in style. Now I've settled down on Wutai and am enjoying it quite a bit. Not too packed but definitely a good amount of players.

I will continue to support the game but believe me I'm not gonna just sit and drink the FF koolaid for the sake of it. I had no intention of paying a monthly fee for the game after the initial 30 days even though I bought the expensive CE. As a 25 year old who still loves to game and long time fan of FF I guess nostalgia plays a pretty big part in the series for me as well. Also MMO vets will you please tell me what you expect in a game like this, not just because it's FF. What's still missing for you and what have they announced that will keep you around.

For those who have read this monster post, thank you. /end @_@
#2 Oct 09 2011 at 10:26 PM Rating: Good
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SebaJun wrote:
For those who followed the development process of this game, what do you think went wrong?


It wasn't actually developed. It was obvious that they spent the majority of their time working on crystal tools(graphics engine) instead of trying to develop their main ideas behind the armory system, the battle system and the UI and controls of the game.

As someone who participated in testing since alpha started in April, I can say that the first red flag for me was how poor the battle system was and how much of the systems, what basic systems we were given, were cluttered, unintuitive and downright horribly implemented.

SebaJun wrote:
As for the difficulty I think there will always be a mixed bag. Games nowadays are easier in general, but it's looking like Yoshi-P and crew know people aren't gonna be pleased with just a walk in the park. I'm glad to read that the new Ifrit battle has been giving people a run for their money and that's just the beginning.


If that is the case they shouldn't keep trying to peg this game as catering to one type of gamer or the other(hardcore v casual). FYI the Ifrit battle isn't as hard as people are making it out to be. If you want proof, check the thread with the live stream of attempts on this boss. The mechanics are all things that people have seen before either in XI or other MMOs. They aren't clearing because they aren't executing.

SebaJun wrote:
I think a lot of people will just never be satisfied no matter what goes on and may never come back to play. I'm pretty sure those people are waiting for "their" perfect FFXIV to be made and it probably isn't going to please them no matter what.


Nevermind perfect, I would have been satisfied with playable. Your point here would probably have more weight if the game was closer to a state of completion than it is now, over a year after release. By completion I mean what was expected at launch. What you can expect when they finally start charging for the game is what should have been implemented last September.
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#3 Oct 09 2011 at 11:10 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
It wasn't actually developed. It was obvious that they spent the majority of their time working on crystal tools(graphics engine) instead of trying to develop their main ideas behind the armory system, the battle system and the UI and controls of the game.
As someone who participated in testing since alpha started in April, I can say that the first red flag for me was how poor the battle system was and how much of the systems, what basic systems we were given, were cluttered, unintuitive and downright horribly implemented.


I've read that a lot of these "poor decisions" were to help against RMTs, botting, etc. Such as the stamina bar, merchant wards, fatigue system. It's amazing how they've pretty much gotten rid of that or drastically changed the original ideas. It's like they cared more about that than the system actually being playable. Even though that stuff would have always found its way in.

If that is the case they shouldn't keep trying to peg this game as catering to one type of gamer or the other(hardcore v casual). FYI the Ifrit battle isn't as hard as people are making it out to be. If you want proof, check the thread with the live stream of attempts on this boss. The mechanics are all things that people have seen before either in XI or other MMOs. They aren't clearing because they aren't executing.


I want to believe that they can find a balance between the two. Wasn't that a major selling point for the game in the first place? I for one am a person who can't play 12 hours a day, but I also don't want anything handed to me. I'd like to think there are people in the same boat as me. I want to be able to experience the game for it is and be rewarded for the time I put in. As for the Ifrit battle since I rerolled I have not been able to fight his "Hard Mode" but I hope it's the beginning of the team realizing people want a challenge.

Nevermind perfect, I would have been satisfied with playable. Your point here would probably have more weight if the game was closer to a state of completion than it is now, over a year after release. By completion I mean what was expected at launch. What you can expect when they finally start charging for the game is what should have been implemented last September.


Yea I totally see what your saying, but I think this situation is a rare occurrence too. I feel people may be watching the team put these new ideas of bits and pieces together and just hate to hate, because they'd be thinking things like "Hey they fixed this, why don't they fix this" or "I don't like this they should have made it like this". But I realize people are just gonna troll so what can you do ya know. I just hope the people who can accept the changes out weigh the people that won't no matter what the team does.
#4 Oct 09 2011 at 11:45 PM Rating: Good
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SebaJun wrote:
It's amazing how they've pretty much gotten rid of that or drastically changed the original ideas. It's like they cared more about that than the system actually being playable.


Ironically, it's rumored they outsourced a great majority of their coding for the game systems to China. Despite their effort to curb RMT, they in essence paid Chinese code farmers to do their work for them. Mmmm, sweet delicious irony...

SebaJun wrote:
But I realize people are just gonna troll so what can you do ya know. I just hope the people who can accept the changes out weigh the people that won't no matter what the team does.


I think people hate it because you should expect more when a developer has decades of experience in making battle systems and nearly a decade of experience running an MMO. So many times I hear the 'entitlement' argument for people defending the game, but to be quite frank, as consumers we do deserve better. SE has apologized and even gone as far as calling XIV an embarrassment.

I don't think it's beyond repair, but trying to fix dozens of issues is proving to be nearly has hard as scrapping the project altogether and starting fresh. Like I've said before, it's like trying to change a tire on a moving vehicle. It is going to be nearly impossible to do while keeping a majority of the players, both those who are still waiting for it to improve as well as those who currently play, happy and eager to subscribe when they finally start charging for service.


Edited, Oct 10th 2011 1:47am by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#5 Oct 10 2011 at 12:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Changing the tires on a vehicle while it's engine is running is more like it.~
#6 Oct 10 2011 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Bad, Bad, and Bad.
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#7 Oct 10 2011 at 12:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Ironically, it's rumored they outsourced a great majority of their coding for the game systems to China. Despite their effort to curb RMT, they in essence paid Chinese code farmers to do their work for them. Mmmm, sweet delicious irony...

Lol. I know right, that is the definition of the word. Too funny.
Do you believe that to be true with the whole 'Horsebird' fiasco kinda feeding the suspension even more. I mean like I said in my original post it's not unknown for outsourcing ya know but I donno why SE would entrust a top tier title to not be worked on by anyone but them, but even if it is true it's like they didn't even look at the progress. They received the "finished" product and SE said alright thanks. As they say it's so crazy you can't make this stuff up o.O

I think people hate it because you should expect more when a developer has decades of experience in making battle systems and nearly a decade of experience running an MMO. So many times I hear the 'entitlement' argument for people defending the game, but to be quite frank, as consumers we do deserve better. SE has apologized and even gone as far as calling XIV an embarrassment.
I don't think it's beyond repair, but trying to fix dozens of issues is proving to be nearly has hard as scrapping the project altogether and starting fresh. Like I've said before, it's like trying to change a tire on a moving vehicle. It is going to be nearly impossible to do while keeping a majority of the players, both those who are still waiting for it to improve as well as those who currently play, happy and eager to subscribe when they finally start charging for service.


Yup couldn't have said it better myself. Completely agree. That's a reason why I wanted to make this thread. As I see this game getting better little by little. SE is obviously not at all oblivious to the poor game they released, but it still just baffles me to the point of just sitting here thinking to myself 'How in the **** did they let this happen'. Did Tanaka and the old team direct and develop XI, cuz if he did it's even crazier that he would just make such horrible design decisions. I'm sure the blame can't be solely put on him but to be a fly on the wall....
#8 Oct 10 2011 at 3:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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SebaJun wrote:
I donno why SE would entrust a top tier title to not be worked on by anyone but them, but even if it is true it's like they didn't even look at the progress. They received the "finished" product and SE said alright thanks.


Pretty much. If you've been running a franchise as long as the FF series has been going and you have fans worldwide who are frothing at the mouth for each and every new title you release, it's easy to see why they grew this complex that they could do no wrong. It isn't surprising that much of SE's original 'revolutionary' ideas, the ideas they had started talking about nearly a year before testing began, didn't translate well when coded by an outsourced team.

SE can and will try to cut corners to save a buck any way they can. International servers, the fairly recent server merges in XI and a batch of other things like the absence of official forums(until recently) are all things that save them money. I don't recall seeing any other form of promotion for XI or XIV outside of the free word of mouth seen on fansites like this and a handful of others.


____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#9 Oct 10 2011 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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The Past: Developers got so tied up in the look of the game they forgot the feel, which left players numb. Within the first five minutes you played the game the most obvious details left you scratching your head; invetory management, combat, npc/pc interactions, etc, etc. It took months just to get the ability to 'auto-sort' your inventory.

The Present: While they are working hard to repair what they did, mainly because they are truly embarrased, there is still much to be done. Even at this point, those of us who have been around since the first release would most likely stop playing if they started charging monthly fees, and they know that. Their goal, or main goal I should say, is to get the game to a point they can impliment fees without a mass exodus.

The Future: We can only speculate at where this will all lead. I think the one thing we can take out of all this mess is that SE is not going to stop trying to make FFXIV work.

- For me, I have been a Final Fantasy fan since I played FFVII what seems to be a lifetime ago. Every installment had something I liked. Every installment had something I disliked. But I have owned ever Final Fantasy game since then. So I will reserve my judgement with them until they say they are happy with it. Until then, I do not mind grinding for mats or farming mobs, I will continue to play here and there. They brought back Materia, which instantly reminded me of old FFVII gear, which intrigues me some. They made solo play a possability, but will it stay that way... I played XI for a year or so until RL got int he way, then I went WoW with friends from the Army. The main reason I never went back to XI was I did not like having to have a group to do most anything quest orientated. I remember having to get help just to be able to dual wield, or travel to another city, or <fill in the blank>. While I find it easy to meet and greet new people, join linkshells and socialize, I also enjoy being the lone wolf at times.

- So to sum it up, it started int he hole, and now they see daylight. Lets not throw more dirt on them yet, see if the lil buggers can climb out. I still have my likes and dislikes, and a wishlist as well: Private houses, Bank/Vault storage, and better social networking in game for starters.
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