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In or Out? (Pay or Quit?)Follow

#102 Oct 15 2011 at 6:17 AM Rating: Good
EmotionBlues wrote:
I voted yes.

Quote:
I just cant justify paying for the game, still we have no AH, no player housing and not even a party search feature, all basics of MMO's 10 years ago, let alone today.


What MMOs have player housing? The last MMO I played that had true player housing was Ultima Online.
SWG had housing in the world, similar to UO. EQ2 and FFXI had housing options as well, but were in the cities.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#103 Oct 15 2011 at 6:27 AM Rating: Good
Yeah for me its just a functioning economic system. The thing we call an auction house but is really an order market is fairly vital to a good game economy. If they were to stick in a good one of those I would probably play and pay for it despite everything else.
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#104 Oct 15 2011 at 6:31 AM Rating: Excellent
digitalcraft wrote:
Yeah for me its just a functioning economic system. The thing we call an auction house but is really an order market is fairly vital to a good game economy. If they were to stick in a good one of those I would probably play and pay for it despite everything else.
I'll most likely end up paying, but man, the need a better sales system. That, and no delivery system are the worst fundamental aspects of the game, IMO. Obviously need more content, too.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#105 Oct 15 2011 at 8:48 AM Rating: Good
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Paying for a game thats still in beta for a full year? I can't even say it without feeling silly. If they feel confident enough to do this they should just shut the game down and officially relaunch it with a new name or just FFXV. I mean they obviously feel they have all the information and feedback from players if they are willing to cut the majority of them out of the picture.. so why not just take what they have learned.. shut this down and relaunch the game anew.

Honestly to me this seem like a final move just to get some money before they pull the plug..

"You sure they will be willing to pay monthly?"
"Hmm your right we have to promise them something"
"I know! Lets put together some pdf files with a bunch of concept art and like 1 screenshot of our ideas"
"That stuff isn't finished.."
"Who cares make it look pretty and promise a lot of cool stuff.. they'll be so excited they have to pay monthly"

..10 months later..

"Where is all the stuff you guys promised?"

and finally..

"Due to low income and low population we have decided to shut down the servers for Final Fantasy XIV we thank you for your support..*cough*suckers"

Yea im up to late and it probably wont happen like that but you never know..
#106 Oct 15 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
I'm in, really not like the market is swarming with mmo's worth it.
TERA going to be a AION copy
SWTOR will be a WoW clone
GW2 I'll get but it's f2p so no sleep lost
Diablo III is a sh*t pile now that you can sell/by items with rl money
Rift is a WoW clone

And that covers the major titles.


Finally somebody else says it!


Let the hate flow through you


Power.

Unlimited Power.
#107 Oct 15 2011 at 10:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Shredmastah wrote:
Honestly to me this seem like a final move just to get some money before they pull the plug..

"You sure they will be willing to pay monthly?"
"Hmm your right we have to promise them something"
"I know! Lets put together some pdf files with a bunch of concept art and like 1 screenshot of our ideas"
"That stuff isn't finished.."
"Who cares make it look pretty and promise a lot of cool stuff.. they'll be so excited they have to pay monthly"

..10 months later..

"Where is all the stuff you guys promised?"

and finally..

"Due to low income and low population we have decided to shut down the servers for Final Fantasy XIV we thank you for your support..*cough*suckers"


It's ingenious, really: they'll manage to make a few hundred thousand dollars a month out of a game that has been years in development by stringing its small population along for less than a year!
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#108 Oct 15 2011 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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3,530 posts
FFXIV, c. 2012.

Rift, c. 2012.

Magic: the Gathering, c. 2005.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#109 Oct 15 2011 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
I'm in, really not like the market is swarming with mmo's worth it.
TERA going to be a AION copy
SWTOR will be a WoW clone
GW2 I'll get but it's f2p so no sleep lost
Diablo III is a sh*t pile now that you can sell/by items with rl money
Rift is a WoW clone

And that covers the major titles.


It's funny how you mention "copy" and "clone" as a bad thing because that's exactly what SE is doing with FFXIV.
#110 Oct 15 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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SigVicious wrote:
I'm still what would be considered a new player, but I hit rank 30, and gotten a pretty good gist of what this game is right now.

SE has put out a gorgeous MMORPG with spacious zones, well done cutscenes, and a generally nice atmosphere.

Unfortunately, those are most of the positives. It's funny they would transition back to a subscription so soon, because the "content" that this game offers is more akin to a F2P Korean grinder than a quality game. The problem there is...Korean grinders generally offer a relatively fun, smooth battle system to counter out the grind.

FFXI had one of the slowest paced battle systems out there, with arbitrary delays and clunky design in general.
This being said, FFXIV's battle system is worse in every single way. Any new player who isn't swimming in hype over the brand or trying to validate their purchase is going to immediately be turned away by combat. The simple fact that spell and skill animations don't sync up with your fingers is hilariously bad, and seems like a horrible bug that should have been fixed in CBT.

The majority of the gameplay revolves around grinding, with extremely sporadic dungeon runs. This is alright, for a F2P Korean MMO.
But you may say, "Look at the story!".
Here's my experience with the storyline, in the form of chocobo quest:
I did Uldah's first 2 grand company quests, watched what was a pretty neat set of cutscenes.
This led me to do the first 2 of Gridania and Limsa, which involved an equal amount of pointless walking, but still seemed tolerable.

This process was repeated 9 times for each town before I was able to join one. It was over 4 hours of nothing but pointless walking, and that's WITH using 70+ anima where I could. I watched what could be considered the same exact storyline with slightly different characters a dozen times, and only one of the 10+ fights was unique, in which I had to cast 2 spells on a golem.



tl:dr; Quit. I paid $60 for this game on release, and they have put out significantly less content than that price in a years time. Why would I pay a subscription fee to grind? I can do that in a F2P game and have much more convenient gameplay and possibly something to do endgame.


I'm doing the GC quests right now and I am slightly shocked they would basically reuse the same quest line over three times with only minor variation. It was great the first time, ok the second time, definitely boring the third time. Yay we have a city leader getting excited about something!
#111 Oct 15 2011 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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FFXI, Circa 2002

All works are derivative of one another. None of these things invented the concept of a hanging city. Possibly the most troll-like activity one can engage in on a game forum is attempting to state that one game copied another. Chances are you can trace the origins back to the 8-bit era, then back to D&D, then back to mythology or history.

So stop trying.
#112 Oct 15 2011 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
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RamseySylph wrote:
Possibly the most troll-like activity one can engage in on a game forum is attempting to state that one game copied another. Chances are you can trace the origins back to the 8-bit era, then back to D&D, then back to mythology or history.

So stop trying.


lol, geez. I was just having fun playing the same game this post was. No need to be so curt.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#113 Oct 15 2011 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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4,148 posts
RamseySylph wrote:
Possibly the most troll-like activity one can engage in on a game forum is attempting to state that one game copied another.


How bout an inflammatory post to someone you weren't even arguing with in the first place that takes their post completely out of context? That gets my vote.


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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#114 Oct 15 2011 at 4:25 PM Rating: Excellent
I would have payed from day 1 if I had to. But thats only because I wanted the advantage of starting when I did. Of course now I will pay when they start subscriptions. The only question is whether or not I keep my mules.
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Data Center: Primal; Server: Ultros; Free Company: The Kraken Club; Grand Company: The Maelstrom; Chocobo: Kweh
#115 Oct 15 2011 at 5:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
I would have payed from day 1 if I had to. But thats only because I wanted the advantage of starting when I did. Of course now I will pay when they start subscriptions. The only question is whether or not I keep my mules.


I wonder how many prospective PS3 players will not be joining at 2.0 because the initial gap of 5-6 months between PC and PS3 launch has now been stretched to nearly two and a half years...

I was under the assumption that 2.0 would be a reboot and have players start fresh with the PC players who had stuck it out receiving some sort of bonus. It is for this reason, the reason you state above about being left behind that makes me think that the PS3 launch is way too late to pull in the number of subs needed for SE to fulfill their 'make or break' attitude toward it's launch.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#116 Oct 15 2011 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I wonder how many prospective PS3 players will not be joining at 2.0 because the initial gap of 5-6 months between PC and PS3 launch has now been stretched to nearly two and a half years...

I was under the assumption that 2.0 would be a reboot and have players start fresh with the PC players who had stuck it out receiving some sort of bonus. It is for this reason, the reason you state above about being left behind that makes me think that the PS3 launch is way too late to pull in the number of subs needed for SE to fulfill their 'make or break' attitude toward it's launch.


But nobody's getting "left behind." Nobody ever is in an MMORPG. Who are you racing? There are over a dozen classes to level and everybody has different playtimes anyway. A casual who joined a year ago could be outlevelled by a new hardcore in a matter of weeks. I could join WoW tomorrow - a 6+ year old game - and be "caught up" in a few months. I could join FFXI tomorrow - an 8+ year old game - and be "caught up" in under a year. Content becomes obsolete; new ways to level are constantly available; new people join and old people quit every day.

There will always be people who have more in-game accomplishments than you and, starting the moment you gain even a single experience point, there will always be people with less. Thinking that you can be "left behind," or that others have a "head start" makes no sense because MMORPGs are made to be never-ending. There's no way to be closer to the end of infinity; you're always an infinite distance away no matter where you are.

I prefer coming to a game with a year or two behind it. More glitches have been worked out, there's more content to do, and I know that it will probably remain relatively stable for a while to come.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#117 Oct 15 2011 at 6:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:

But nobody's getting "left behind." Nobody ever is in an MMORPG. Who are you racing? There are over a dozen classes to level and everybody has different playtimes anyway. A casual who joined a year ago could be outlevelled by a new hardcore in a matter of weeks.


This is how people use to approach MMOs, and probably why those people remember there early times much more fondly. Something changes to most of us, that turns the experience into a competition. It is a shame because this mindset ruins the experience imo. Sure we all say, we don't really put stock into virtual accomplishments, but that is easier said than done.
#118 Oct 15 2011 at 6:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Vawn43 wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:

But nobody's getting "left behind." Nobody ever is in an MMORPG. Who are you racing? There are over a dozen classes to level and everybody has different playtimes anyway. A casual who joined a year ago could be outlevelled by a new hardcore in a matter of weeks.


This is how people use to approach MMOs, and probably why those people remember there early times much more fondly. Something changes to most of us, that turns the experience into a competition. It is a shame because this mindset ruins the experience imo. Sure we all say, we don't really put stock into virtual accomplishments, but that is easier said than done.


I know what you mean. My wife and I play simply to enjoy ourselves, and some of that enjoyment involves maximizing one's potential. We had a friend, however, who would start with this same mindset but, the more he played, the more serious he got, until it very much seemed like a race to him.

Something strange happens to a significant portion of people when a game adds in a social aspect. It's probably unconscious and unintentional. But these people should realize that you can't win a race with no end, and that the only reward waiting at the end of content is boredom. Perhaps if more people focused on the journey as well as the goals they would take their time to enjoy the anticipation during the trip - heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard are sweeter. Is the ultimate goal, then, only to be able to log off?


Edited, Oct 15th 2011 11:25pm by KaneKitty
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#119 Oct 15 2011 at 6:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
But nobody's getting "left behind." Nobody ever is in an MMORPG. Who are you racing?


This question should be posed to StateAlchemist. He's the one who said he'd have paid from the start even though he didn't think it was worth it(he insinuated) to avoid being left behind. I personally don't care, but I have seen this sentiment carried by many people here who share the attitude of "This sucks, but when it gets better I'll be that much further ahead and won't have to catch up".

Your opinion and that of SA are on opposite sides of the spectrum. I probably shouldn't be considered as XIV is probably not a game I'll be playing.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#120 Oct 15 2011 at 6:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,636 posts
I won't pay because its still not a game I'd spend more than a few hours a month on. You can say improving all you want, but I still won't pay for something until its done and i'm happy with it.

I'd still be weary even if i was enjoying the game, because I'd be hesitant to pay for a game thats basically got a year left on the hopes that I'll still like it when 2.0 happens.
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#121 Oct 15 2011 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
KujaKoF wrote:
I won't pay because its still not a game I'd spend more than a few hours a month on. You can say improving all you want, but I still won't pay for something until its done and i'm happy with it.

I'd still be weary even if i was enjoying the game, because I'd be hesitant to pay for a game thats basically got a year left on the hopes that I'll still like it when 2.0 happens.
I think '2.0 will be whole new game' just means the same game with all the updates that they will do for the next year or so, plus some new maps.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#122 Oct 15 2011 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
I think '2.0 will be whole new game' just means the same game with all the updates that they will do for the next year or so, plus some new maps.


Maybe, but I've never heard of an MMO going through such drastic changes. A new graphics engine, original zones completely scratched and replaced, scratching the UI completely and restarting, running the game on all new servers. And that's just a few examples - it sure sounds like a completely new game to me.
#123 Oct 15 2011 at 9:00 PM Rating: Good
To be honest, I don't blame anyone for saying 'see ya next year'. The gameplay is OK now, but content is still minimal.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#124 Oct 15 2011 at 9:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
I would have payed from day 1 if I had to. But thats only because I wanted the advantage of starting when I did. Of course now I will pay when they start subscriptions. The only question is whether or not I keep my mules.


I wonder how many prospective PS3 players will not be joining at 2.0 because the initial gap of 5-6 months between PC and PS3 launch has now been stretched to nearly two and a half years...

I was under the assumption that 2.0 would be a reboot and have players start fresh with the PC players who had stuck it out receiving some sort of bonus. It is for this reason, the reason you state above about being left behind that makes me think that the PS3 launch is way too late to pull in the number of subs needed for SE to fulfill their 'make or break' attitude toward it's launch.



Having a limited number of players who are already ahead wouldn't really discourage people as much as you think... Especially potential console players. In general console players have a different attitude than PC players, it's a bit of a blanket statement but I guarantee you its true. If the game is fun and enjoyable, and polished I don't think it's going to be that big of an issue. Even though some players will be ahead in levels, the whole world will be new for everyone to explore and experience.

Even if you start an MMO at the same time as everyone else, some people are going to pull so far ahead, and hit the max level in multiple classes before you even get half way on one, unless you are one of those types of players. How many of those types of intense (haijin) style players are going to even want to play on PS3?

Other people being a higher level doesn't negatively impact the experience for most players. If anything it makes it easier to obtain certain items, and receive help when completing things.
#125 Oct 15 2011 at 11:33 PM Rating: Good
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I bought FFXIV for $20 and thought I would try it out because it was free to play. I played it a lot for 3 weeks, I started a few days before 1.9 so I got to see the changes. Although it was improved I think this game is still not ready to be paid for, it's has beautiful scenery and detailed character models, but when I look past the graphics there's not much there. I'll just tell you why I wont pay:

FFXIVs biggest problem for me is with crafting synthesis, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ <---Crafting Table

The game is missing voice overs, all those story scenes felt weird, it's all just scrolling through lines of text it seems like the voice track is missing.

Quests are either:
-walk back and forth for 2 hours between npc's
-kill 5 of these and 6 of these

The same levequests over and over & grinding are the entire game.

With new Final Fantasy's being worked on I believe they're just trying to build up just enough hype to do one last cash grab before shutting down the servers for good.

Shame on you, Square Enix! Guild wars 2 is being released soon and it's FREE TO PLAY, how can you charge people for this?

I'm not calling the game garbage, I do enjoy it, it's worth $20 I paid with no monthly fee, but I wont pay to keep playing.
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#126 Oct 15 2011 at 11:38 PM Rating: Good
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HollowShadow wrote:
Guild wars 2 is being released soon and it's FREE TO PLAY, how can you charge people for this?


/thread

Edited, Oct 16th 2011 1:39am by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#127 Oct 16 2011 at 12:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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9,526 posts
KaneKitty wrote:

But nobody's getting "left behind." Nobody ever is in an MMORPG. Who are you racing? There are over a dozen classes to level and everybody has different playtimes anyway. A casual who joined a year ago could be outlevelled by a new hardcore in a matter of weeks. I could join WoW tomorrow - a 6+ year old game - and be "caught up" in a few months. I could join FFXI tomorrow - an 8+ year old game - and be "caught up" in under a year. Content becomes obsolete; new ways to level are constantly available; new people join and old people quit every day.


eh, except you see it already. Can't buy anything reasonably priced in the markets cause it is all priced for people who have millions of gil from before levequest nerf... and after a full year more of those players getting gils, the differences will only be greater

And the other difference is in games like XI, they have intentionally moved from it taking 1 year for any normal person to cap a job (minumum) to it being easily accomplishable in 2 weeks to a month (less for a second job).

Unless they similarly tune down the grind (especially with the need to cross class everything) I do think people will be uninterested in joining a game which is economically and socially dominated by people who have had a 2 year head start. Even knowing people in game and having some cash and levels already, it feels oppressive to me. I can't imagine how much worse it will be when it goes pay to play and those that are left have a fun year to solidify their hold on the culture and economy of the game.

And yeah, people joined late in XI before they tuned the grind, but a) different era and b) it sucked to do so, yay spending weeks grinding gil for simple level 20-30 equipment from the AH
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#128 Oct 16 2011 at 12:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:

But nobody's getting "left behind." Nobody ever is in an MMORPG. Who are you racing? There are over a dozen classes to level and everybody has different playtimes anyway. A casual who joined a year ago could be outlevelled by a new hardcore in a matter of weeks. I could join WoW tomorrow - a 6+ year old game - and be "caught up" in a few months. I could join FFXI tomorrow - an 8+ year old game - and be "caught up" in under a year. Content becomes obsolete; new ways to level are constantly available; new people join and old people quit every day.


eh, except you see it already. Can't buy anything reasonably priced in the markets cause it is all priced for people who have millions of gil from before levequest nerf... and after a full year more of those players getting gils, the differences will only be greater

And the other difference is in games like XI, they have intentionally moved from it taking 1 year for any normal person to cap a job (minumum) to it being easily accomplishable in 2 weeks to a month (less for a second job).

Unless they similarly tune down the grind (especially with the need to cross class everything) I do think people will be uninterested in joining a game which is economically and socially dominated by people who have had a 2 year head start. Even knowing people in game and having some cash and levels already, it feels oppressive to me. I can't imagine how much worse it will be when it goes pay to play and those that are left have a fun year to solidify their hold on the culture and economy of the game.

And yeah, people joined late in XI before they tuned the grind, but a) different era and b) it sucked to do so, yay spending weeks grinding gil for simple level 20-30 equipment from the AH


This crap about the so called "economic dominance" of higher levels in FFXIV is silly. Low level items are sold for reasonable prices, it's not nearly as impossible to make gil to gear oneself as people seem to imply. Level a craft, find a good enemy to farm, it's not hard.

Just questing and vendoring items should be enough to gear one class fairly well by itself.

If you're basing your "things are overpriced" conclusion off of new items introduced right after the patch, that data is totally skewed by the fact that people are overcharging for materials and novelty gear. Either way, it's something SE can continually fix by adding vendors and incentivizing the sale of low level gear at low prices. And they have a year to do it.

As for being "socially dominated" I'm not even sure what this means. But see my original post. It really just means that there are more people to help with things. Aside from players who "must" be "ahead" of everyone else, and I would argue that there are very few of those that would even play on a console, I think people are over-estimating how much people feel the need to be ahead of the rest of the world.
#129 Oct 16 2011 at 3:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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For a new game in this position they can't have a few high level players dominating things, they will eitehr have to have a rollback with v2 or make their accomplishments very easy for new players to catch up to.

My guess is they will make everything a lot easier, leveling will become incredibly fast and crafts will be the same. Honestly they have to do it, you can't relaunch the entire game hoping to attract mass numbers of MMO players and have a few thousand with capped everything at the start. It would be as stupid as making a FFXImk2 and letting all current XI players transfer over.
#130 Oct 16 2011 at 4:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Here is an idea for a solution to the whole 'high level player' problem:

1. Before release consolidate some of the servers. It will be easy with the low player base already.
2. Open new servers before release

Most of the new servers therefore would be starting from zero. Really the first part may not even be necessary, as they could just open servers, and let people all go there and then later allow characters to transfer between these. This would divide the player base in the short run, but a lot of people would still choose a server their friends are in anyways, and over time with character transfers it might not matter in the long run.

Just an idea that doesn't involve taking what players already have. Which is actually the worse case scenario for the game, since it will destroy player trust.

Edit: Overused the word "anyways" and removed some.

Edited, Oct 16th 2011 6:13am by zuogehaomeng
#131 Oct 16 2011 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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RamseySylph wrote:


FFXI, Circa 2002

All works are derivative of one another. None of these things invented the concept of a hanging city. Possibly the most troll-like activity one can engage in on a game forum is attempting to state that one game copied another. Chances are you can trace the origins back to the 8-bit era, then back to D&D, then back to mythology or history.

So stop trying.
Confirmed for whoosh.
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Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#132 Oct 16 2011 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
PlayStation 2
JP May 16, 2002
NA March 23, 2004
Windows (PC)
JP November 7, 2002
NA October 28, 2003
PAL September 17, 2004
Xbox 360
NA April 18, 2006
JP April 20, 2006
PAL April 20, 2006

we all know these are the FFXI release dates.

There were multiple times in the games life where a new player base was introduced, heck the 360 players were behind by a whole 4 years and we all know they didnt care one bit. The game was grindy as **** and alot of gear was crazy overpriced but at least by the time the newer players arrived things were figured out. If you needed 200k for a spell or piece of gear you had multiple avenues to explore and they all worked. all a new players had to do was type ffxi alla in a search bar and all the info they needed was right there. anyone who claims to have gotten left behind is just lazy and wants things handed to them.


I might not be around to see what happens to Eorzea between 1.20 and 2.0, but ill **** sure be here when 2.0 hits. the last thing ill be worried about is that someone already grinded dungeons for the randomswordofsuck +1.

As long as FFXIV 2.0 is enjoyable people will play the **** out of it.
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#133 Oct 16 2011 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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3,177 posts
They need to release a handful of new classes or increase the level cap from 50 in 2.0. That will solve the high level problem people seem to worry about.

Yoshida himself said the level cap wouldn't be increased for another year a few months ago. This must be the reason why.
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#134 Oct 16 2011 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,339 posts
pochy wrote:
I'm in, period. I bought the game, didn't get charged a subscription fee for a year, they're asking that I pay for a year, then get the free version with 2.0 again. I enjoy the game, it's very playable, there's lots of content, and lots to do. It's worth paying for.

SE's financials have taken a beating over this game so far. If they threw in the towel, sure, it might be ok to drop out. However they've kept at it. They're investing a lot more time and money, failure isn't an option and htey'll dump as much money into it as necessary, as they've readily proven. I think it's the least we can do by showing our loyalty and shelling out a measely $150 for a year subscription.


This isn't charity: it's business.

They provided a broken, pathetic product and people refused to stand for it.

I don't know about you or others, but I'm not stupid enough to throw money at a company in some foolish, misguided sense of loyalty on the delusion that said company sees more than my money. When they've given me a product worth my money, I'll give them it freely.
#135 Oct 16 2011 at 4:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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109 posts
Viertel wrote:
pochy wrote:
I'm in, period. I bought the game, didn't get charged a subscription fee for a year, they're asking that I pay for a year, then get the free version with 2.0 again. I enjoy the game, it's very playable, there's lots of content, and lots to do. It's worth paying for.

SE's financials have taken a beating over this game so far. If they threw in the towel, sure, it might be ok to drop out. However they've kept at it. They're investing a lot more time and money, failure isn't an option and htey'll dump as much money into it as necessary, as they've readily proven. I think it's the least we can do by showing our loyalty and shelling out a measely $150 for a year subscription.


This isn't charity: it's business.

They provided a broken, pathetic product and people refused to stand for it.

I don't know about you or others, but I'm not stupid enough to throw money at a company in some foolish, misguided sense of loyalty on the delusion that said company sees more than my money. When they've given me a product worth my money, I'll give them it freely.



I agree with Viertel. People expect way to little and pay high money. Learn to demand more for your money.

They only took small amount of blame for the pure crappiness on this games launch by getting a new dev. team and reworking the game. Now they are going to turn around and blame all of us for they're money lose and the game not having crap for players by charging for a game that is only 50% complete and out of that 50%, a good 20% of it is buggie and out of balance.

Then there is the crafting part. nothing done with that other then changing the whole recipe part. I can go in and do like a blacksmithing leve and fail 1, then you can go back in like 30 mins and get the same leve and fail all of it. Really. Cant say it's bad luck cause it's pretty **** common. So here is a half-assed part of the game and we're going to get charged for it..

I hope the financial system fails world wide, I want to see how many people rage that they werent bright enough to tell SE to bad, not paying until it's at least 80% complete and pretty bug free and balanced. I guess tho, simple lame thing for simple minds.
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#136 Oct 16 2011 at 7:39 PM Rating: Excellent
I'm disappointed that almost half are staying and paying, no questions asked.

Think of it this way...

If my waitress slapped a couple raw eggs and some flour on my plate no way would I pay the restaurant for pancakes! ...especially if I'd already paid a large chunk of money for a seat at the table! Yeah, maybe I got a glass of water or maybe a cup of coffee when I sat down but they are expecting me to pay for pancakes ON TOP OF THE TABLE CHARGE!

It's just flat out wrong.

NO ONE should pay for this game until it is playable and EVERY issue is addressed to a reasonable degree. That is a **** of a long way off. We are rewarding SE for treating us like patsies, and if they can make a profit doing so, that is PRECISELY what they will continue to do!

Not me.

Not happening.

Edited, Oct 16th 2011 9:40pm by ChelleFemreal
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#137 Oct 16 2011 at 7:43 PM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
They need to release a handful of new classes or increase the level cap from 50 in 2.0. That will solve the high level problem people seem to worry about.

What about the economy? There is more to it than just adding a few classes. It isn't only about character progression in terms of levels gained. Entering a market where many players have tens if not hundreds of millions of gil from their headstart may very well scare some players off.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#138 Oct 16 2011 at 8:01 PM Rating: Excellent
HollowShadow wrote:
I bought FFXIV for $20 and thought I would try it out because it was free to play. I played it a lot for 3 weeks, I started a few days before 1.9 so I got to see the changes. Although it was improved I think this game is still not ready to be paid for, it's has beautiful scenery and detailed character models, but when I look past the graphics there's not much there. I'll just tell you why I wont pay:

FFXIVs biggest problem for me is with crafting synthesis, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ <---Crafting Table

The game is missing voice overs, all those story scenes felt weird, it's all just scrolling through lines of text it seems like the voice track is missing.

Quests are either:
-walk back and forth for 2 hours between npc's
-kill 5 of these and 6 of these

The same levequests over and over & grinding are the entire game.

With new Final Fantasy's being worked on I believe they're just trying to build up just enough hype to do one last cash grab before shutting down the servers for good.

Shame on you, Square Enix! Guild wars 2 is being released soon and it's FREE TO PLAY, how can you charge people for this?

I'm not calling the game garbage, I do enjoy it, it's worth $20 I paid with no monthly fee, but I wont pay to keep playing.


Excellent points. I never tried Guild Wars because I've always been stuck on the FF story line and graphics, but I really don't see how they are going to make this game work. I agree this is just a last ditch effort at a cash grab and am really disappointed to see so many people falling for it. SE's XI servers have been on the brink of failure for years...it's been a topic in all the gaming and trades mags off and on since 2005 or so, and what I've read since then hasn't been encouraging and does not lead me to want to send my credit card info to SE right now. I rec'd XIV as a gift and have alternately enjoyed it and hated it. It was great early on before my conjurer was nerfed and pigeon holed into enforced healer role when I'd previously been able to play solo (which is a must for me due to changing play hours). Solo play for all jobs was something SE had advertised as a selling point of XIV but I think they've given up on the whole game now as a lost cause. IMO they are implementing what they've gotten done, will grab what cash they can, and close it down. You just can't turn one game into an entirely different game as they have tried to do and end up with a playable product. I'd like to find out where the original team ended up working and follow whatever projects/games they are currently a part of. THEY knew what they were doing and had something special going until SE stepped in and WoW-ed it up.

I'll quit when they start charging then check back in several months and see if it's still around, but I have strong doubts. I just really hate to see SE rewarded for this mess...for setting such outrageously high expectations (it would be called bait and switch in the U.S. and be illegal actually) and fail so utterly to deliver.
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Ignorance is bliss. The bite in the *** that follows rarely is.
#139 Oct 16 2011 at 8:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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4,148 posts
ChelleFemreal wrote:
If my waitress slapped a couple raw eggs and some flour on my plate no way would I pay the restaurant for pancakes! ...especially if I'd already paid a large chunk of money for a seat at the table! Yeah, maybe I got a glass of water or maybe a cup of coffee when I sat down but they are expecting me to pay for pancakes ON TOP OF THE TABLE CHARGE!


It's almost eerie that you chose a raw pancake analogy because I used the same thing to make a point during alpha testing about why players should speak up about the issues back then instead of worrying about offending the developers. I got about 8 pages of flame for it, but it still holds up over a year later...

Poor business decision if you ask me, but not surprising coming from this company lately. In essence they are asking players to fund the development of a product that was released a year previous and is still by their words, an embarrassment. That takes some balls.







____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#140 Oct 16 2011 at 8:28 PM Rating: Excellent
Viertel wrote:
pochy wrote:
I'm in, period. I bought the game, didn't get charged a subscription fee for a year, they're asking that I pay for a year, then get the free version with 2.0 again. I enjoy the game, it's very playable, there's lots of content, and lots to do. It's worth paying for.

SE's financials have taken a beating over this game so far. If they threw in the towel, sure, it might be ok to drop out. However they've kept at it. They're investing a lot more time and money, failure isn't an option and htey'll dump as much money into it as necessary, as they've readily proven. I think it's the least we can do by showing our loyalty and shelling out a measely $150 for a year subscription.


This isn't charity: it's business.

They provided a broken, pathetic product and people refused to stand for it.

I don't know about you or others, but I'm not stupid enough to throw money at a company in some foolish, misguided sense of loyalty on the delusion that said company sees more than my money. When they've given me a product worth my money, I'll give them it freely.


Clearly someone's either been born with a nice silver spoon in their mouth or is playing with mommy and daddy's money. Personally, I have a lot of other places a hundred and fifty dollars would be better spent than FAITH in Square Enix's devotion to me as a player! If they are devoted to anything it's to saving their own ASSETS! PERIOD! ...and I don't know what game YOU played, above-quoted poster who I will not name personally because that would not be nice and something tells me you already have enough challenges in life, but the game ***I*** played was one cluster-funk after another, and a lot of my playing got UN-PLAYED when they made their whimsical changes here there and everywhere...totally changing the game from one thing to another in the process! By all means stay if you want, but for goddess' sake, don't lecture us on what we owe SE for all the money they have thrown at the game...because it's been OUR money! We paid for a half-done game with a BRILLIANT vision and we've been unpaid and oft-harrassed testers forced to watch it slowly sink into mediocrity! SE's devoted to profit, and they're doing everything they can possibly think of to figure out some way, ANY WAY, out of this fiasco. I hate to be the one to burst your bubble, kid, but our loyalty means less than nothing to them except as a tool in their process. Please note my siggy.
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#141 Oct 16 2011 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
FilthMcNasty wrote:
ChelleFemreal wrote:
If my waitress slapped a couple raw eggs and some flour on my plate no way would I pay the restaurant for pancakes! ...especially if I'd already paid a large chunk of money for a seat at the table! Yeah, maybe I got a glass of water or maybe a cup of coffee when I sat down but they are expecting me to pay for pancakes ON TOP OF THE TABLE CHARGE!


It's almost eerie that you chose a raw pancake analogy because I used the same thing to make a point during alpha testing about why players should speak up about the issues back then instead of worrying about offending the developers. I got about 8 pages of flame for it, but it still holds up over a year later...

Poor business decision if you ask me, but not surprising coming from this company lately. In essence they are asking players to fund the development of a product that was released a year previous and is still by their words, an embarrassment. That takes some balls.









Sorry to step on your analogy... : ) But yeah, it works. Truly, what SE lacks in vision and integrity it makes up for in sheer audacity. I feel sorry for the people who are buying this "we are working to make this a better gaming experience for our loyal players" B.S. I have been accused of being naive, but really...is anyone THAT naive? This is a money grab--nothing more, nothing less. It's so painfully obvious!
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#142 Oct 16 2011 at 8:57 PM Rating: Decent
Vawn43 wrote:
Duke Lubriderm wrote:
I think '2.0 will be whole new game' just means the same game with all the updates that they will do for the next year or so, plus some new maps.


Maybe, but I've never heard of an MMO going through such drastic changes. A new graphics engine, original zones completely scratched and replaced, scratching the UI completely and restarting, running the game on all new servers. And that's just a few examples - it sure sounds like a completely new game to me.



That's another thing... who knows if the graphics/servers will be dependable or compatible. Not like SE has a good rep in that department either.

And... What's the point of all the ennnnnnnnnnnndless grinnnnnnnnnnnnnding of this game (which I do the old fashioned, no-cheats way) which is periodically rendered useless/obsolete anyway? Why continue to pay if everything is being remade? When I think of all I have labored for (worked for, not botted, like 90% of the players I see... like literally, most of the ppl I see at least have the unlimited tele and speed dat files in use and don't even bother to hide that they're using them in town any more!) ...why do all that grinding just to continually have it undone when they make this or that change to how things are done?

It gets old when you're not paying for the "pleasure" ...but I cannot imagine the frustration factor if I were paying! That was always my one consolation. "Well, at least I'm not paying to play." I'm afraid if I didn't have that to fall back on when they make their periodic asinine sweeping changes I would really lose my virtual mind.
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#143 Oct 16 2011 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
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2,120 posts
ChelleFemreal wrote:
Please note my siggy.


How I long to regress
To the days before I took upon myself
The obsessions of this world
A day of innocence equating beauty
For tomorrow may fall
And today is already gone
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#144 Oct 16 2011 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
so you do play the game?

so SE served you raw eggs and flour once when you ordered pancakes and instead of giving you your money back they gave you a years worth of free raw eggs and flour and you decided to take them up on their offer.


"at least i'm not paying for it" should never be an excuse when you're doing something that the sole purpose of is entertainment. you either enjoy it or you dont.
and if you dont enjoy it then what the heck are playing for? are you punishing yourself for something you did?
anyone who has been playing the game clearly enjoys it to some extent. anyone who plays regularly shouldnt really have a problem with dropping money for it now. sure launch completely sucked, but at least now theyre serving everyone pancake batter and even though its not cooked, at least they mixed up the ingrediants for everyone.

someone would have to be naive to assume a company thats sole purpose is to make money wouldnt want to fix a game that would generate it in spades if it were succesfull. something clearly went wrong with the game, and if it was originally an outsource issue like so many seem to believe then you better believe that 2.0 will be the best product they could possibly make.
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#145 Oct 16 2011 at 10:07 PM Rating: Decent
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4,148 posts
theSubligaravenger wrote:
someone would have to be naive to assume a company thats sole purpose is to make money wouldnt want to fix a game that would generate it in spades if it were succesfull. something clearly went wrong with the game, and if it was originally an outsource issue like so many seem to believe then you better believe that 2.0 will be the best product they could possibly make.


What would someone have to be to assume that a company who's sole purpose is to make money wouldn't have taken what worked and incorporated that into their new offering? Why would someone believe that 2.0 will be the best product possible when the FF franchise has clearly been on a decline for quite some time?

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea behind 2.0 and I support it, but not enough to invest in it's development. Especially not when a producer/developer with as much experience as SE has is failing to produce a quality product. This shouldn't have taken a year to materialize especially considering none of the ideas put forth are anything they couldn't have come up with in the going on 7 years of development this game has.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#146 Oct 16 2011 at 10:43 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
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551 posts
TwiddleDee wrote:
LeilaniWildfire wrote:
I won't be staying/paying for the main reason that FFXIV is not worth the monthly fee yet. I can see that in the future it will be, so maybe I will come back then.

I paid £50 for the game, and now you have been able to buy the same game for less than £10 for months. I already contributed enough and I don't see myself paying any more until I see with my own eyes that FFXIV is worth it.
We got these awesome update letters year ago too, what makes it different this time? The game is not so horrible that it makes me want to cry myself to sleep... but pretty much everything else is exactly the same...


Don't let the door hit you on your way out (i mean it i don't want *** prints on my door).. with this SE can clear up leaches and focus on the main body of the community. As they should. I see no reason why SE should cater to people who only play because it's free. V2.0 will be the game that we expected, and i have no objections to pay for the final product. I for one feel honored be a part of this game as it grows, and i will support it.


Clear up leeches? LOL We PAID for this **** game and stuck around waiting for them to fix it. "We will not charge for FFXIV until we feel it is worthy of release!" Then Yoshi releases 1.19, declares the game "50% finished ( which is apparently a lie judging from the fact they're redoing the whole **** game per this latest letter ), and then they have the gall to charge people for an unfinished game ( just like they did at launch ).

Tell you what, you can feel "honored" to throw good money after bad and support companies that want to make the customer pay for their mistakes if you like.

Those of us who are sane, however, will be leaving now. Oh, and don't worry about the door hitting me in the *** on the way out. I'm kicking that sh*t down since S-E never got around to putting the door knobs in anyway.

Oh, and don't even dare complain when the reviewers who have just barely started giving this game some credit for improving, quickly run it into the ground. Charging money = released product and this game is NOT A RELEASE WORTHY PRODUCT.

Also, since you claim in another thread that you drink $200/kg coffee from your $4000 coffee/expresso maker ( LOLOL ), you'll forgive me if I pay absolutely no heed to what you may consider worthy of money.

Edited, Oct 17th 2011 12:47am by Zorvan
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#147 Oct 16 2011 at 11:49 PM Rating: Good
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3,962 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
RamseySylph wrote:
Possibly the most troll-like activity one can engage in on a game forum is attempting to state that one game copied another. Chances are you can trace the origins back to the 8-bit era, then back to D&D, then back to mythology or history.

So stop trying.


lol, geez. I was just having fun playing the same game this post was. No need to be so curt.


That teaches me to skim and post inflammatory stuff at the same time!

Total tool post on my part, /redirects anger at linked post.

That said... ; ; if you had quote I never would have wooshed that hard.

Carry on with the angsty discussion and comparison to coffee and such.

Edited, Oct 16th 2011 10:50pm by RamseySylph
#148 Oct 17 2011 at 1:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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589 posts
Bad press is like cancer, it can come back and bite you in the *** at anytime after you thought you beat it. They will have to walk on rice paper when they launch 2.0 cause every little glitch, bug and issue will be a gaint lighting rod for the reviewers.


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#149 Oct 17 2011 at 2:42 AM Rating: Good
11 posts
pretty much thier slogan is this " pay now and experience playing the game later in a year" which is a fraud presented infront of your face.
#150 Oct 17 2011 at 6:40 AM Rating: Good
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171 posts
I quit playing in March after getting a couple classes to r30, I just started to get annoyed with how the game was playing. Don't get me wrong, I still love Final Fantasy but I felt this game needed some work (also player population seemed to be very low). I logged in for the first time in months yesterday to find my account was still active. It looked like there were a lot more people online than previously. I think I will revisit the game later this week and give it another shot to see what the last few patches have brought in but I doubt I will continue beyond that. Patch 2.0 is what I will be waiting for with FFXIV for it to become a game I really want to play.
#151 Oct 17 2011 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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160 posts
Anyone on Lindblum that is quitting for good......I'll gladly take your cash and items.
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