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#152 Oct 17 2011 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
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I was in the moment they said they're adding dragoon! :D

All they really need to fix omg now is the search. Let me search for friends or at least see what area they're in.
The other thing I would really like, let me move with the numpad and set my camera to the arrows beside it! I've had to switch to gamepad since I can't stand moving around with the default controls.

The rest of it is polish imo and be implemented while the game is pay for play.
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#153 Oct 17 2011 at 9:10 AM Rating: Decent
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There were a couple of things I saw in this thread I found interesting. 1 was the analogy of the restaurant.

First thing to consider is the fact that, when is the last time you didn't eat at a restaurant because someone else had bad service?

Secondly, if everyone stopped going to a restaurant that had, say a drunk cook, who served raw food, then got the person off the line, and put someone more qualified on the line, what would be the reason for not going back? To punish them for giving you the raw food to begin with? Meh, that falls into the category of free choice, do it if you want, but finding fault in others going back is rather selfish.

Which leads me to the most significant part of this, saying that everyone should quit because you don't think it's right for them to pay is very selfish and entitled. It is up to individuals to reach a sound decision on their own path, based on their own principals. If someone enjoys this game, and feels that SE deserves their money, that is their choice, and their act. It does not infringe on you in any way, so your offense to it is not only rather baffling, but very self-serving.

Now, to the people who talk about people getting so far past others. As pointed out 11 is probably one of the best examples ever of a high curve, low pay off, and enormous time sync. I started with the PS2 US release, which, yeah the first expansion was already out, and it took me 3 months to settle on a server and actually start leveling my first character.

By the time I had my first job leveled to 18 on the character I used for the rest of the game, people already had a strategy for fighting Kirin, and where defeating him regularly. I was getting beat up by leaping lizzy...

The only people who will feel the pain of being "woefully behind" are elitest players, who, want to have the latest and greatest, or who want to be better then others. Yes, anyone who starts with the PS3 release will not be able to reach that point for a good year after other players with tons of level 50 jobs will. However, just because people start later doesn't mean they will not be able to catch up, and surpass others.


So, with that being said, it seems that the largest argument about them charging and leaving the server up is that people who choose to not stay, but to come back will be at a disadvantage (this will be very true if their characters don't make the transfer, but I imagine they will), and that, people should be scorned to the point where, even though, it is generally accepted the game is improving, people should have lost all respect for SE, and should abandon the game since SE is unworthy of a single dime of money.

I can agree w/ people leaving, and either coming back later, or not at all. I can understand people staying. But the people who wish to detract from others, seems so sad.

Either way, I am going to stay, I want to see the story play out.
#154 Oct 17 2011 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
rikkuotaku wrote:
Well from the poll so far looks like the servers will be just about half as empty as they are now.

Not too encouraging. But what else would you expect. Just wondering what SE will do about it.....


I don't think so. The half that will not be paying the subscription are already not playing. Maybe 1 in 10 of the players that are actively playing are actually going to stop just because of the subs (just a guess.)

Now SW:TOR is a whole different story. I do think at the release of Star Wars will see a decline in players for a time. I get the impression that many of the FF fans are also Star Wars fans, and everyone who has a PC that plays FFXIV will be able to play SW:TOR at some fairly high graphic settings. This will affect subs. The timing is unfortunate for FFXIV.
#155 Oct 17 2011 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
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Now SW:TOR is a whole different story. I do think at the release of Star Wars will see a decline in players for a time. I get the impression that many of the FF fans are also Star Wars fans, and everyone who has a PC that plays FFXIV will be able to play SW:TOR at some fairly high graphic settings. This will affect subs. The timing is unfortunate for FFXIV.


From what I've been reading, SWTOR is apparently not as great as the hype put out for it. At which point XIV may still have a bit extra time after the "ooo shiny" effect wears off. Considering the heavy release schedule of other mmo's I think FFXIV is gonna have a hard time keeping up.

Edited, Oct 17th 2011 11:29am by MippsCat
#156 Oct 17 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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rfolkker wrote:
Secondly, if everyone stopped going to a restaurant that had, say a drunk cook, who served raw food, then got the person off the line, and put someone more qualified on the line, what would be the reason for not going back? To punish them for giving you the raw food to begin with? Meh, that falls into the category of free choice, do it if you want, but finding fault in others going back is rather selfish.


Except in this case, the horrible cook was replaced with another slightly better, but still bad cook. You make it sound like 1.19 was everything people hoped launch would be and SE should be praised that it only took them a year to bring it around to this point. It's a translation, but perhaps you should read this...

Yoshi wrote:
As a global title that holds the Final Fantasy name, I feel that we're at a 50% mark before we can compete against other, newer MMOs in the market.


So if Yoshi is the line cook who replaced drunk Tanaka, then he's admitting that he still ***** up half of the food orders he cooks...

I personally don't care what people do with their money, but when you have a company coming out with statements like 'an embarrassment' and 'about half as good as our competition', you can't really fault people for pointing out that it doesn't make sense to pay for that. For those of us without colored lenses, it's a bit easier to see exactly what is going on here.

rfolkker wrote:
Now, to the people who talk about people getting so far past others...

Regardless of what you think, your economy will be affected by players with a two year headstart. It might be invisible in that you wouldn't know how much it affects you, but it undoubtedly will. There will also be items that you will never have access to once the changes are made.

Here's a suggestion: Make a poll asking players if they would be upset with the changes if they had to reroll for 2.0 or if they'd accept it and move on. I think you are really underestimating just how much can be achieved in two years of playing time.

As consumers, we are entitled to good service. We should have expectations from a company who was pulled from the brink of being forgotten to one of the leading producers of RPG games. If SE is as appreciative as they express that they are, then they should be striving to exceed our expectations.




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#157 Oct 17 2011 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
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If this game were to come out on ps3 tomorrow, I would gladly pay for it, because I like a lot of the things that I'm seeing. But alas, I don't have the PC to handle it. I would like to see this put into a survey. If SE released the PS3 version today how many would start playing today or wait until version 2.0.

Edited, Oct 17th 2011 12:35pm by FluEpidemic
#158 Oct 17 2011 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
Secondly, if everyone stopped going to a restaurant that had, say a drunk cook, who served raw food, then got the person off the line, and put someone more qualified on the line, what would be the reason for not going back? To punish them for giving you the raw food to begin with? Meh, that falls into the category of free choice, do it if you want, but finding fault in others going back is rather selfish.


Except in this case, the horrible cook was replaced with another slightly better, but still bad cook. You make it sound like 1.19 was everything people hoped launch would be and SE should be praised that it only took them a year to bring it around to this point. It's a translation, but perhaps you should read this...

Yoshi wrote:
As a global title that holds the Final Fantasy name, I feel that we're at a 50% mark before we can compete against other, newer MMOs in the market.


So if Yoshi is the line cook who replaced drunk Tanaka, then he's admitting that he still @#%^s up half of the food orders he cooks...

I personally don't care what people do with their money, but when you have a company coming out with statements like 'an embarrassment' and 'about half as good as our competition', you can't really fault people for pointing out that it doesn't make sense to pay for that. For those of us without colored lenses, it's a bit easier to see exactly what is going on here.

rfolkker wrote:
Now, to the people who talk about people getting so far past others...

Regardless of what you think, your economy will be affected by players with a two year headstart. It might be invisible in that you wouldn't know how much it affects you, but it undoubtedly will. There will also be items that you will never have access to once the changes are made.

Here's a suggestion: Make a poll asking players if they would be upset with the changes if they had to reroll for 2.0 or if they'd accept it and move on. I think you are really underestimating just how much can be achieved in two years of playing time.

As consumers, we are entitled to good service. We should have expectations from a company who was pulled from the brink of being forgotten to one of the leading producers of RPG games. If SE is as appreciative as they express that they are, then they should be striving to exceed our expectations.





The thing is, I do agree what what you are saying, from a perspective of self. My concern is that people are more concerned about how others choose.
#159 Oct 17 2011 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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1 dungeon at cap level and some boss fight a la wow 2003, this game is definetly worth 12 dollars.........
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#160 Oct 17 2011 at 12:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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rfolkker wrote:
First thing to consider is the fact that, when is the last time you didn't eat at a restaurant because someone else had bad service?
If I've been there before and my experiences don't match the others' negative experiences? Probably going to have little to no impact on me. If I've been there before and agree? I probably won't go there, but then again, I probably wasn't going there any time soon without that other person's input.

If I haven't been there before? That'd probably hold a lot more sway then, and would be one of several pieces of information deciding whether or not I'd decide to go.

So, meh. Sh*t is situational. Hey, it's mildly related to FFXI now!



Crappy analogies aside, I'm hopeful of FFXIV 2.0 revitalizing my interest. I've long said that the game needs severe overhauls down to the graphics engine itself, so I'm glad to see those changes on the table. Am I going to be paying SE while they're beta testing throughout the transition? No.



Edited, Oct 17th 2011 1:09pm by bsphil
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#161 Oct 17 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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I can afford it, I'm in. Good thing I sell drugs to school children. I gotta supplement my income!
#162 Oct 18 2011 at 8:43 AM Rating: Default
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Buttsniffa wrote:
The few posts of his that I have read have insulted my intelligence. I think he is ViKtorious...(or whatever his name was)


I would so love to chew you up and spit you out over this, but I'll skip. Going down 10 floors to drop to your intelligence is not to my taste.

Back the the OP.
Pay or don't. Like i said before if you stay and belie in the game you'll see the creation and have a years head start. If you leave because your faith in XIV is broken feel free to uninstall, and do as you please. Why are people acting as if this is forced down the throat, it's not.


Edited, Oct 18th 2011 10:43am by TwiddleDee
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#163 Oct 18 2011 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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I'm in as well. I want to see the changes coming to Eorzea first hand and luckily I have enough money to pay the monthly fee. I can't wait to see what happens!
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#164 Oct 18 2011 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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MrStyles wrote:
I'm in as well. I want to see the changes coming to Eorzea first hand and luckily I have enough money to pay the monthly fee. I can't wait to see what happens!


I'll tell you what happens, or better yet, play FFVII, EQ, Cataclysm etc etc.

Same thing, you gonna get a few more primal battles, then sephiroth is gonna summon meteor, and blow your continent apart, fast foward a year later, somehow you survived, and the world is a different place, now you go and search for thrall and try to make him come back to the horde.

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#165 Oct 18 2011 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
MrStyles wrote:
I'm in as well. I want to see the changes coming to Eorzea first hand and luckily I have enough money to pay the monthly fee. I can't wait to see what happens!


I'll tell you what happens, or better yet, play FFVII, EQ, Cataclysm etc etc.

Same thing, you gonna get a few more primal battles, then sephiroth is gonna summon meteor, and blow your continent apart, fast foward a year later, somehow you survived, and the world is a different place, now you go and search for thrall and try to make him come back to the horde.


I can't be sure, but I think some of your lore is getting melded together...
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#166 Oct 18 2011 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
1 dungeon at cap level and some boss fight a la wow 2003, this game is definetly worth 12 dollars.........


Pretty obvious case of someone who hasn't played the game recently nor have kept in touch with any content added.

For me, I'm paying, I'd pay now already if fee's started, theres tons for me to do in game both solo and with friends and I'm having a blast.
$12-14 is nothing theese days and pretty much what all p2p MMOs charge and theres no other MMO currently that would intresst me.
When 1.20 comes out(which payments will start after its realease)it sounds like it will makes thngs even more enjoyable.

Talking about it in my main LS(quite a large and active one) the last few days it seems that 90% will be staying after subs, and the 10% that wouldn't where mostly people who barely had time to play the game due to IRL restrictions etc.

And in all honestly I've had bad experience with the quality and maturity of players in free to play MMOs so hopefully this will weed out alot of the bad seed.
#167 Oct 18 2011 at 10:42 PM Rating: Decent
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15$ subscription does not justify a broken game, they did not fix the fullscreen alt-tab issue, ifrit animation lags you, server lag issue, high lvl mobs chokes a passege to a leve quest/quest from completing it, etc etc and the cons list goes on. iam gonna pay subs for *finished product* then paying for a *broken game*.seriously SE fans, wake up.
#168 Oct 18 2011 at 11:16 PM Rating: Good
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XChoyi wrote:
Ostia wrote:
1 dungeon at cap level and some boss fight a la wow 2003, this game is definetly worth 12 dollars.........


Pretty obvious case of someone who hasn't played the game recently nor have kept in touch with any content added.

For me, I'm paying, I'd pay now already if fee's started, theres tons for me to do in game both solo and with friends and I'm having a blast.
$12-14 is nothing theese days and pretty much what all p2p MMOs charge and theres no other MMO currently that would intresst me.
When 1.20 comes out(which payments will start after its realease)it sounds like it will makes thngs even more enjoyable.

Talking about it in my main LS(quite a large and active one) the last few days it seems that 90% will be staying after subs, and the 10% that wouldn't where mostly people who barely had time to play the game due to IRL restrictions etc.

And in all honestly I've had bad experience with the quality and maturity of players in free to play MMOs so hopefully this will weed out alot of the bad seed.


Oh but i actually play the game, there are 2 dungeons(3 if you count that cave in LL) and one boss fight, ifrit, that is it, please dont tell me that strongholds are end game content, they are a zerg and tank spank, that is not end game content.
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#169 Oct 18 2011 at 11:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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I will be putting the game on hold once its P2P, but I will be keeping close tabs on it. Since coming back about a month ago I am VERY pleased with the progress of this game. It has already turned into a game that I really enjoy, but it is certainly not complete. Honestly, once they can eliminate the massive lag so that it doesn't take a full minute or more for NPC's to load in Uldah or for me to be stunlocked when I swap to a different class, I will be willing to pay. The game is leaps and bounds better than it was even 6 months ago. Most of my major gripes have been addressed and the few that are remaining are planning to be fixed.

I will probably end up grabbing Star Wars, playing that for a year and then swapping to FFXIV 2.0 when it is released. At that point, if the game lives up to the concept art and map they've laid out, it will be a game I will GLADLY pay for and the game I had hoped for at launch.
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#170 Oct 18 2011 at 11:38 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
I will be putting the game on hold once its P2P, but I will be keeping close tabs on it. Since coming back about a month ago I am VERY pleased with the progress of this game. It has already turned into a game that I really enjoy, but it is certainly not complete. Honestly, once they can eliminate the massive lag so that it doesn't take a full minute or more for NPC's to load in Uldah or for me to be stunlocked when I swap to a different class, I will be willing to pay. The game is leaps and bounds better than it was even 6 months ago. Most of my major gripes have been addressed and the few that are remaining are planning to be fixed.

I will probably end up grabbing Star Wars, playing that for a year and then swapping to FFXIV 2.0 when it is released. At that point, if the game lives up to the concept art and map they've laid out, it will be a game I will GLADLY pay for and the game I had hoped for at launch.


you and me are in the same boat, friend.
#171 Oct 19 2011 at 4:21 AM Rating: Good
I'll tell you when 1.20 hits.
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#172 Oct 19 2011 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
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I've been quite surprised over the lag improvement I have noticed since I've returned (was away about 2-3 months), judging from what I've seen in and around Ul'dah I'm surprised at the lag complaints in this thread. Thinking about it though I installed 2 SSDs and did a fresh W7 install a few weeks back so it may just be a low PC load and a virgin GPU driver install that is keeping my game sweet at the moment.

Luckily 15 bucks a month is not a big deal breaker for me and I'll happily play on through 2011/12 until v 2.0. Perhaps not as religiously as I previously did as I hit a bit of a burn out and some of the people I genuinely enjoyed spending time with in game are not playing at the moment however, if I'm genuinely honest I want to be one of those people who can say, "yeah, welcome to the relaunch, I've been playing since the start - so here is what you want to do and here is what you don't want to do....."

I'm also keen to try Tera when it finally launches here, I was eager for SW:TOR as I love Bioware but the comments I am reading here and elsewhere are not encouraging.
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#173 Oct 19 2011 at 7:24 AM Rating: Decent
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
I've been quite surprised over the lag improvement I have noticed since I've returned (was away about 2-3 months), judging from what I've seen in and around Ul'dah I'm surprised at the lag complaints in this thread. Thinking about it though I installed 2 SSDs and did a fresh W7 install a few weeks back so it may just be a low PC load and a virgin GPU driver install that is keeping my game sweet at the moment.

Luckily 15 bucks a month is not a big deal breaker for me and I'll happily play on through 2011/12 until v 2.0. Perhaps not as religiously as I previously did as I hit a bit of a burn out and some of the people I genuinely enjoyed spending time with in game are not playing at the moment however, if I'm genuinely honest I want to be one of those people who can say, "yeah, welcome to the relaunch, I've been playing since the start - so here is what you want to do and here is what you don't want to do....."

I'm also keen to try Tera when it finally launches here, I was eager for SW:TOR as I love Bioware but the comments I am reading here and elsewhere are not encouraging.


Swtor is a great game, i'm in beta, and comming from EQ,WOW,FFXIV, it's a good game, lots of fun, lots of lore, a whole lot of interaction, and content, there is lots of content :)
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#174 Oct 19 2011 at 7:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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After giving 1.19 a decent shot for the past couple weeks, I have to say that 1.20's PC search improvements will make or break my decision to pay until 2.0. I firmly believe the game is making tremendous strides forward in the right direction, but the fact is it's an amazingly boring game without an active friend's list or linkshell as no one is forming or joining random groups, to the point where I find myself completely bored and logging out when there's no one on to group up with and unsuccessful attempts to put together a group based on random strangers.

FFXIV right now, without a functioning party search or centralized way to group, is a Jekyll and Hyde game: Tremendous fun and impossible to put down when you can group up, tremendously boring when you can't. It's unfortunate that right now most new players are going to fall into the "can't" side until they can develop some contacts.



Edited, Oct 19th 2011 9:47am by Whales
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#175 Oct 19 2011 at 8:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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FFXIV right now, without a functioning party search or centralized way to group, is a Jekyll and Hyde game: Tremendous fun and impossible to put down when you can group up, tremendously boring when you can't. It's unfortunate that right now most new players are going to fall into the "can't" side until they can develop some contacts.


I totally agree. I do not have any real life friends who play FFXIV so when it comes to quests that require groups or raids or alot of the game content... I have been standing in Gradinia shouting ... trying to get someone to answer... this is so silly it makes me want to slap myself in the head with a dead trout.

I still have not been able toget a single group to work on my server (Karnak), I managed to get one person who said they would come help with a quest (GC to get rank/mount/etc) and they went offline before we even got started. The party search/recruit system is such a joke I would have to cut off a finger, or hand, if I was responsable for that design.
#176 Oct 19 2011 at 9:26 AM Rating: Decent
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TernanJian wrote:
I have been standing in Gradinia shouting ...


Yes, we need a search function badly. But, in the mean time, you should at least stand in the right zone if you're going to try shouting for a group...
#177 Oct 19 2011 at 9:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes, we need a search function badly. But, in the mean time, you should at least stand in the right zone if you're going to try shouting for a group...


lol yeah I have tried just about every zone, Uld is about the best place for a pickup on my server, most active city hands down. Standing at the quest site is often me trying to answer the age old question.. if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around...
#178 Oct 19 2011 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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We do need a search function no debate over that. Till then try to shout in Ul'dah, usually that is the best place to find people. Shouting is Grid is like shouting in Windy Waters.
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#179 Oct 19 2011 at 10:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
SolomonGrundy wrote:
I've been quite surprised over the lag improvement I have noticed since I've returned (was away about 2-3 months), judging from what I've seen in and around Ul'dah I'm surprised at the lag complaints in this thread. Thinking about it though I installed 2 SSDs and did a fresh W7 install a few weeks back so it may just be a low PC load and a virgin GPU driver install that is keeping my game sweet at the moment.

Luckily 15 bucks a month is not a big deal breaker for me and I'll happily play on through 2011/12 until v 2.0. Perhaps not as religiously as I previously did as I hit a bit of a burn out and some of the people I genuinely enjoyed spending time with in game are not playing at the moment however, if I'm genuinely honest I want to be one of those people who can say, "yeah, welcome to the relaunch, I've been playing since the start - so here is what you want to do and here is what you don't want to do....."

I'm also keen to try Tera when it finally launches here, I was eager for SW:TOR as I love Bioware but the comments I am reading here and elsewhere are not encouraging.


Swtor is a great game, i'm in beta, and comming from EQ,WOW,FFXIV, it's a good game, lots of fun, lots of lore, a whole lot of interaction, and content, there is lots of content :)


Completely agree. The people who are saying it's just a WoW clone have clearly not seen it in action. Sure there are similarities to WoW, but that is definitely not a bad thing. Although WoW as a whole isn't my cup of tea, they did a lot of things very well in that game, and Star Wars is building off that and improving it in most aspects. Even so, a fully fixed FFXIV 2.0 will get my vote over Star Wars in the end because I just feel like there is so much more POTENTIAL for the game. It's got a ways to go, but it's on the right track.
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#180 Oct 19 2011 at 11:45 PM Rating: Good
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I am totally in. Actually i am just now returning - go figure, with no intentions to quit. I can't say i have a gripe with the paying now, but I do hope they revise payment structures. By this I mean retainer costs, and character costs. I think the base sub fee without any character/retainer costs should be all that they are charging for right now. Ultimately, I would like to see them get rid of retainer fee all together, and allow for 2 or 3 character slots for base subscription.
#181 Oct 20 2011 at 12:05 AM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
SolomonGrundy wrote:
I've been quite surprised over the lag improvement I have noticed since I've returned (was away about 2-3 months), judging from what I've seen in and around Ul'dah I'm surprised at the lag complaints in this thread. Thinking about it though I installed 2 SSDs and did a fresh W7 install a few weeks back so it may just be a low PC load and a virgin GPU driver install that is keeping my game sweet at the moment.

Luckily 15 bucks a month is not a big deal breaker for me and I'll happily play on through 2011/12 until v 2.0. Perhaps not as religiously as I previously did as I hit a bit of a burn out and some of the people I genuinely enjoyed spending time with in game are not playing at the moment however, if I'm genuinely honest I want to be one of those people who can say, "yeah, welcome to the relaunch, I've been playing since the start - so here is what you want to do and here is what you don't want to do....."

I'm also keen to try Tera when it finally launches here, I was eager for SW:TOR as I love Bioware but the comments I am reading here and elsewhere are not encouraging.


Swtor is a great game, i'm in beta, and comming from EQ,WOW,FFXIV, it's a good game, lots of fun, lots of lore, a whole lot of interaction, and content, there is lots of content :)


Completely agree. The people who are saying it's just a WoW clone have clearly not seen it in action. Sure there are similarities to WoW, but that is definitely not a bad thing. Although WoW as a whole isn't my cup of tea, they did a lot of things very well in that game, and Star Wars is building off that and improving it in most aspects. Even so, a fully fixed FFXIV 2.0 will get my vote over Star Wars in the end because I just feel like there is so much more POTENTIAL for the game. It's got a ways to go, but it's on the right track.


If potential is a code word for nothing in the game, then yeah, i agree, when you have nothing, you have the potential to implement a lot of stuff :/
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#182 Oct 20 2011 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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TernanJian wrote:
Quote:
Yes, we need a search function badly. But, in the mean time, you should at least stand in the right zone if you're going to try shouting for a group...


lol yeah I have tried just about every zone, Uld is about the best place for a pickup on my server, most active city hands down. Standing at the quest site is often me trying to answer the age old question.. if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around...


Not just your server, but Ul'dah is the correct spot on every server at the current time. It isn't so much the "best" spot to shout for pick-up groups, quests as it is the "only" place.
#183 Oct 20 2011 at 9:09 AM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
If potential is a code word for nothing in the game, then yeah, i agree, when you have nothing, you have the potential to implement a lot of stuff :/


Potential in a game =/= an empty game, sure i would like a few more content to do in XIV. But it's not empty and devoid of content like you imply, and saying it is, is simply ignorant.
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#184 Oct 20 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
BartelX wrote:
If potential is a code word for nothing in the game, then yeah, i agree, when you have nothing, you have the potential to implement a lot of stuff :/


Potential in a game =/= an empty game, sure i would like a few more content to do in XIV. But it's not empty and devoid of content like you imply, and saying it is, is simply ignorant.


Perhaps, but it continues to suck entirely at immersion. How do guildleves tell you anything about Eorzea or its citizens? If I'm supposed to help a farmer rid his planting fields of moles so he can save his crops, why would I go to a big shiny crystal somewhere and then kill six moles. Where is the farm? Or the farmer? Where are his fields? Oh, that's right. They didn't bother to actually design anything like that. So all guildleves do every single time you do one is yank a player out of any potential immersion in the game that might accidentally happen.

Where's the immersion in just going on animal genocide runs over and over and over again? There is no impact on the world at large from anything you do. There is no greater understanding of the people or the places.

They made playing "casual" mean "devoid of anything interesting or involved" and that's a pretty crappy shortcut if you ask me.

Even the Grand Company quests are copy/paste. Where's the impact? Where's the immersion? Where is anything that actually matters?

Oh, right. There isn't anything yet. Still. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Edited, Oct 20th 2011 11:39am by hexaemeron
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#185 Oct 20 2011 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
hexaemeron wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
BartelX wrote:
If potential is a code word for nothing in the game, then yeah, i agree, when you have nothing, you have the potential to implement a lot of stuff :/


Potential in a game =/= an empty game, sure i would like a few more content to do in XIV. But it's not empty and devoid of content like you imply, and saying it is, is simply ignorant.


Perhaps, but it continues to suck entirely at immersion. How do guildleves tell you anything about Eorzea or its citizens? If I'm supposed to help a farmer rid his planting fields of moles so he can save his crops, why would I go to a big shiny crystal somewhere and then kill six moles. Where is the farm? Or the farmer? Where are his fields? Oh, that's right. They didn't bother to actually design anything like that. So all guildleves do every single time you do one is yank a player out of any potential immersion in the game that might accidentally happen.

Where's the immersion in just going on animal genocide runs over and over and over again? There is no impact on the world at large from anything you do. There is no greater understanding of the people or the places.

They made playing "casual" mean "devoid of anything interesting or involved" and that's a pretty crappy shortcut if you ask me.

Even the Grand Company quests are copy/paste. Where's the impact? Where's the immersion? Where is anything that actually matters?

Oh, right. There isn't anything yet. Still. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Edited, Oct 20th 2011 11:39am by hexaemeron


Have you done the Storyline Quests? The Class Quests? The Grand Company Quests?

In the course of these quests I've traveled about 50% of the overall map talking with a few dozen NPCs about their fields and their problems and how they relate to the bigger picture events. The Class Quests specifically are each very intricately designed. Working to finish every Class Quest just on one single Class will take you all over the place. You learn about your Class's Guild and how they are doing their part to fight against the gathering darkness. Each Class quest has some 8-10 unique cutscenes and characters that you won't find elsewhere.

Do you actually read the NPC dialog when you do these quests? This is where the lore is, and I would say where it belongs.

From your comments, I don't think you have spent much time doing the Quest that are exactly what you are asking for that are already in the game. As you get to higher levels, I strongly suggest you to go back to your Class's Guild and experience these quests. They are cool.
#186 Oct 20 2011 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
BartelX wrote:
If potential is a code word for nothing in the game, then yeah, i agree, when you have nothing, you have the potential to implement a lot of stuff :/


Potential in a game =/= an empty game, sure i would like a few more content to do in XIV. But it's not empty and devoid of content like you imply, and saying it is, is simply ignorant.


Perhaps, but it continues to suck entirely at immersion. How do guildleves tell you anything about Eorzea or its citizens? If I'm supposed to help a farmer rid his planting fields of moles so he can save his crops, why would I go to a big shiny crystal somewhere and then kill six moles. Where is the farm? Or the farmer? Where are his fields? Oh, that's right. They didn't bother to actually design anything like that. So all guildleves do every single time you do one is yank a player out of any potential immersion in the game that might accidentally happen.

Where's the immersion in just going on animal genocide runs over and over and over again? There is no impact on the world at large from anything you do. There is no greater understanding of the people or the places.

They made playing "casual" mean "devoid of anything interesting or involved" and that's a pretty crappy shortcut if you ask me.

Even the Grand Company quests are copy/paste. Where's the impact? Where's the immersion? Where is anything that actually matters?

Oh, right. There isn't anything yet. Still. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Edited, Oct 20th 2011 11:39am by hexaemeron


Have you done the Storyline Quests? The Class Quests? The Grand Company Quests?

In the course of these quests I've traveled about 50% of the overall map talking with a few dozen NPCs about their fields and their problems and how they relate to the bigger picture events. The Class Quests specifically are each very intricately designed. Working to finish every Class Quest just on one single Class will take you all over the place. You learn about your Class's Guild and how they are doing their part to fight against the gathering darkness. Each Class quest has some 8-10 unique cutscenes and characters that you won't find elsewhere.

Do you actually read the NPC dialog when you do these quests? This is where the lore is, and I would say where it belongs.

From your comments, I don't think you have spent much time doing the Quest that are exactly what you are asking for that are already in the game. As you get to higher levels, I strongly suggest you to go back to your Class's Guild and experience these quests. They are cool.


I see. So if I'm supposed to help someone in another town or hamlet, I can go to said town or hamlet, speak to said person in said town or hamlet and actually have some lasting impact?

Or is it just NPC chat bounce in one of the three main cities? I understand what you're saying, but what you're saying doesn't actually address what I'm saying.
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#187 Oct 20 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Default
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hexaemeron wrote:

-Text-


I fail to see why people are getting so hung up on immersion for a game. In rl the "immersion" is less then what you want it to be in a game. You want every step you make, every action taken to affect the way the world rotates. I don't see how that is possible when you think about it 200 people are making a game for thousands. Long story short it's made for the general populace not just for 1 person.

I get what you are saying, and i think is simply asking too much.

Edited, Oct 20th 2011 12:23pm by TwiddleDee
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#188 Oct 20 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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TwiddleDee wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:

-Text-


I fail to see why people are getting so hung up on immersion for a game. In rl the "immersion" is less then what you want it to be in a game. You want every step you make, every action taken to affect the way the world rotates. I don't see how that is possible when you think about it 200 people are making a game for thousands. Long story short it's made for the general populace not just for 1 person.

I get what you are saying, and i think is simply asking too much.

Edited, Oct 20th 2011 12:23pm by TwiddleDee


I don't think it's too much to ask that if I'm supposed to aid a farmer in his fields that there be

a.) A farmer
b.) A farm
c.) Fields with crops

...present. Is that really too much to ask?
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#189 Oct 20 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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Since I'll be playing Skyrim when that comes out on top of being busy with other things, my plan right now is to re-up in Feb/March when the jobs patch comes online.
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#190 Oct 20 2011 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:
Where's the immersion in just going on animal genocide runs over and over and over again? There is no impact on the world at large from anything you do. There is no greater understanding of the people or the places.


Right, because it's not like every other freakin MMO in existence allows you to go on animal genocide runs to level up. Have you even bothered trying to dungeons they've put in, or the massive plethora of quests they've added, or the GC content, or caravans, or... I think you get the point. I think you just see what you want to see in the game and regardless of what other people tell you there is it just won't be good enough for you. And honestly, that's fine. Don't play the game. But don't come on here and talk about a "lack of immersion" when it's abundantly clear you've done NOTHING to immerse yourself in the game. You're looking for excuses, and I think it's rather pathetic.

edit: just to clarify, I'm not saying this is the most immersive game ever created. Far from it. But to say it completely lacks any immersion is absolutely not true.


Edited, Oct 20th 2011 1:15pm by BartelX
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#191 Oct 20 2011 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:
it continues to suck entirely at immersion. How do guildleves tell you anything about Eorzea or its citizens? If I'm supposed to help a farmer rid his planting fields of moles so he can save his crops, why would I go to a big shiny crystal somewhere and then kill six moles? Where is the farm? Or the farmer? Where are his fields? Oh, that's right. They didn't bother to actually design anything like that.


I have to agree with you there. But, then again, those stupid floating crystals were a terrible idea from the very beginning; they'll always be a blight on the game for as long as SE tries to salvage them. It's obviously the laziest, easiest thing SE could do: "Just spawn s handful of monsters... uh, near a crystal. Sure, whatever, crystals and monsters are Final Fantasy."
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

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#192 Oct 20 2011 at 11:13 AM Rating: Default
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hexaemeron wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:

-Text-


I fail to see why people are getting so hung up on immersion for a game. In rl the "immersion" is less then what you want it to be in a game. You want every step you make, every action taken to affect the way the world rotates. I don't see how that is possible when you think about it 200 people are making a game for thousands. Long story short it's made for the general populace not just for 1 person.

I get what you are saying, and i think is simply asking too much.

Edited, Oct 20th 2011 12:23pm by TwiddleDee


I don't think it's too much to ask that if I'm supposed to aid a farmer in his fields that there be

a.) A farmer
b.) A farm
c.) Fields with crops

...present. Is that really too much to ask?


Technically that would be fine and understandable. Considering XI it's land layout variety the lack of referenced structures in not surprising. However considering the land layout of WoW/RIFT/AION i can see how the lack of landmarks could be disheartening.

This is me and me alone, but i rather get "sky/sea" then a bunch of land features that serve more as a reference then serve an actual purpose.

Edited, Oct 20th 2011 1:19pm by TwiddleDee
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#193 Oct 20 2011 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Right, because it's not like every other freakin MMO in existence allows you to go on animal genocide runs to level up. Have you even bothered trying to dungeons they've put in, or the massive plethora of quests they've added, or the GC content, or caravans, or... I think you get the point. I think you just see what you want to see in the game and regardless of what other people tell you there is it just won't be good enough for you. And honestly, that's fine. Don't play the game. But don't come on here and talk about a "lack of immersion" when it's abundantly clear you've done NOTHING to immerse yourself in the game. You're looking for excuses, and I think it's rather pathetic.


[Wall of text] + [Generic fetch/kill quest] + [Guy standing there with a "!" floating over his head]

is not a formula for awesomely original and immersive quests.
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#194 Oct 20 2011 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Right, because it's not like every other freakin MMO in existence allows you to go on animal genocide runs to level up. Have you even bothered trying to dungeons they've put in, or the massive plethora of quests they've added, or the GC content, or caravans, or... I think you get the point. I think you just see what you want to see in the game and regardless of what other people tell you there is it just won't be good enough for you. And honestly, that's fine. Don't play the game. But don't come on here and talk about a "lack of immersion" when it's abundantly clear you've done NOTHING to immerse yourself in the game. You're looking for excuses, and I think it's rather pathetic.


[Wall of text] + [Generic fetch/kill quest] + [Guy standing there with a "!" floating over his head]

is not a formula for awesomely original and immersive quests.


hence why I pointed out the MANY other things in game that have been added. I'm not disagreeing that the guildleves lack immersion, but it's no less immersive to me than doing 100 of the exact same WoW quests where you kill X amount of Y or gather X amount of Y where the only thing that changes is the mob or item type (and even sometimes those are the same).
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#195 Oct 20 2011 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
I'm not disagreeing that the guildleves lack immersion, but it's no less immersive to me than doing 100 of the exact same WoW quests where you kill X amount of Y or gather X amount of Y where the only thing that changes is the mob or item type (and even sometimes those are the same).


You're right: it's as bad as the worst WoW quests. But since when should "no less crappy than the other slough" be a badge of endearment?
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#196 Oct 20 2011 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
Where's the immersion in just going on animal genocide runs over and over and over again? There is no impact on the world at large from anything you do. There is no greater understanding of the people or the places.


Right, because it's not like every other freakin MMO in existence allows you to go on animal genocide runs to level up. Have you even bothered trying to dungeons they've put in, or the massive plethora of quests they've added, or the GC content, or caravans, or... I think you get the point. I think you just see what you want to see in the game and regardless of what other people tell you there is it just won't be good enough for you. And honestly, that's fine. Don't play the game. But don't come on here and talk about a "lack of immersion" when it's abundantly clear you've done NOTHING to immerse yourself in the game. You're looking for excuses, and I think it's rather pathetic.

edit: just to clarify, I'm not saying this is the most immersive game ever created. Far from it. But to say it completely lacks any immersion is absolutely not true.


Edited, Oct 20th 2011 1:15pm by BartelX


My my, that was awfully invective of you. First off, I suppose it's debateable whether there's a difference between an ongoing story arc for why some NPC might need 10 wolf pelts versus "There is no reason these animals must die other than you need to level up."

I suppose I can concede that. But personally, I like the idea that I'm a part of a larger story, contributing in a reasonable organic way. Killing 10,000 doblyns to get to 50... really wasn't organic to me, you know?
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#197 Oct 20 2011 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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The Guildleve system is actually quite better than the WoW Fetchquests in that they make a sort of minigame of it. Granted, at that point they make it less about the lore and more about the action in it, but that's the general purpose of having levelquests over fetch quests.

The Side Quests, Guild Quests, Grand Company Quests, and Storyline Quests all server that 'greater immersion' desire you're looking for. But if you need something to assit your grinding that's easy to do and more localized, they could have done a **** of a lot worse than the Levequests.

They essentially mixed FFXI's Assault and Training Regimine systems and combined them, and in my opinion that's not a bad thing.

If all you are doing is the levequests, then are complaining about quest immersion, then you've only got yourself to blame for the problem. As far as the enviroment itself, those are things they can only regard at the end, when they completely change over the zone files, graphic engine, etc.
#198 Oct 20 2011 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:
BartelX wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
Where's the immersion in just going on animal genocide runs over and over and over again? There is no impact on the world at large from anything you do. There is no greater understanding of the people or the places.


Right, because it's not like every other freakin MMO in existence allows you to go on animal genocide runs to level up. Have you even bothered trying to dungeons they've put in, or the massive plethora of quests they've added, or the GC content, or caravans, or... I think you get the point. I think you just see what you want to see in the game and regardless of what other people tell you there is it just won't be good enough for you. And honestly, that's fine. Don't play the game. But don't come on here and talk about a "lack of immersion" when it's abundantly clear you've done NOTHING to immerse yourself in the game. You're looking for excuses, and I think it's rather pathetic.

edit: just to clarify, I'm not saying this is the most immersive game ever created. Far from it. But to say it completely lacks any immersion is absolutely not true.


Edited, Oct 20th 2011 1:15pm by BartelX


My my, that was awfully invective of you. First off, I suppose it's debateable whether there's a difference between an ongoing story arc for why some NPC might need 10 wolf pelts versus "There is no reason these animals must die other than you need to level up."

I suppose I can concede that. But personally, I like the idea that I'm a part of a larger story, contributing in a reasonable organic way. Killing 10,000 doblyns to get to 50... really wasn't organic to me, you know?


Nope, hence why I stopped playing last February and just came back about a month ago. And you know what I found out? There is a heck of a lot more immersive content now than there was in February, go figure! It's not doblyn fantasy anymore like it used to be, and a comment like that just proves to me that you clearly have NOT tried out much of the new content yet. And if that's the case, it pretty much invalidates your argument of a lack of immersion.

Kanekitty wrote:
You're right: it's as bad as the worst WoW quests. But since when should "no less crappy than the other slough" be a badge of endearment?


And once again you completely missed the point of my post, which was that there are FAR more ways now to level than simply doing the non-immersive guildleves. Guildleves at this point are a supplement to the other content. The other content, if you've bothered to try it, is actually quite immersive. For example, the Ifrit battle at level 25. If you actually bother to read the dialogue it's quite well thought out, and it also ties in a reason to fight some of the NM's in the game. On top of that, the cutscenes for it are phenomenal.

Clearly there still needs to be A LOT more content like that for the game, but it is heading in the right direction, and if you actually take the time to appreciate some of the stuff in game now you'd realize there's quite a bit of immersion happening.

Edited, Oct 20th 2011 1:47pm by BartelX
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#199 Oct 20 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Excellent
KaneKitty wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
it continues to suck entirely at immersion. How do guildleves tell you anything about Eorzea or its citizens? If I'm supposed to help a farmer rid his planting fields of moles so he can save his crops, why would I go to a big shiny crystal somewhere and then kill six moles? Where is the farm? Or the farmer? Where are his fields? Oh, that's right. They didn't bother to actually design anything like that.


I have to agree with you there. But, then again, those stupid floating crystals were a terrible idea from the very beginning; they'll always be a blight on the game for as long as SE tries to salvage them. It's obviously the laziest, easiest thing SE could do: "Just spawn s handful of monsters... uh, near a crystal. Sure, whatever, crystals and monsters are Final Fantasy."


I think you guys have hit the nail on the head. The whole place is mostly generic and devoid of anything interesting aside from the cities. The place was just auto-generated over and over using the same templates, which results in a big, boring expanse of little to do between point A and point B.

In FFXI you can wander around each zone and find mysteries hinting at the past of Vanadiel everywhere, usually tied into the rich main storyline. In other games such as WoW you can run across villages, farms, NPCs giving out quests everywhere, and all kinds of stuff all over the place.

If bringing back zones will get them to put some character in the game, then I'm all for it. Down the road I'm sure it will finally be worth paying for.
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#200 Oct 20 2011 at 11:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
BartelX wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
Where's the immersion in just going on animal genocide runs over and over and over again? There is no impact on the world at large from anything you do. There is no greater understanding of the people or the places.


Right, because it's not like every other freakin MMO in existence allows you to go on animal genocide runs to level up. Have you even bothered trying to dungeons they've put in, or the massive plethora of quests they've added, or the GC content, or caravans, or... I think you get the point. I think you just see what you want to see in the game and regardless of what other people tell you there is it just won't be good enough for you. And honestly, that's fine. Don't play the game. But don't come on here and talk about a "lack of immersion" when it's abundantly clear you've done NOTHING to immerse yourself in the game. You're looking for excuses, and I think it's rather pathetic.

edit: just to clarify, I'm not saying this is the most immersive game ever created. Far from it. But to say it completely lacks any immersion is absolutely not true.


Edited, Oct 20th 2011 1:15pm by BartelX


My my, that was awfully invective of you. First off, I suppose it's debateable whether there's a difference between an ongoing story arc for why some NPC might need 10 wolf pelts versus "There is no reason these animals must die other than you need to level up."

I suppose I can concede that. But personally, I like the idea that I'm a part of a larger story, contributing in a reasonable organic way. Killing 10,000 doblyns to get to 50... really wasn't organic to me, you know?


Nope, hence why I stopped playing last February and just came back about a month ago. And you know what I found out? There is a heck of a lot more immersive content now than there was in February, go figure! It's not doblyn fantasy anymore like it used to be, and a comment like that just proves to me that you clearly have NOT tried out much of the new content yet. And if that's the case, it pretty much invalidates your argument of a lack of immersion.


No, it doesn't invalidate anything because it's my opinion. I've logged in to 1.18 and 1.19 and like you, I started a new character. I don't want to have to do boring, disconnected things in order to get to fun stuff later, and I'm sorry but saving up leves for a rainy day and going out on kill parties, with the spare sidequest here and there (which is basically just another leve, let's be honest) is not fun to me. Immersion, especially early on for me is totally barren and vacant. And I'm not a hater. I wanted to love this game. But it's just not interesting, fun, or immersive to me.

Maybe that's my fault? I prefer a more sandpark deal. I guess our mileage may vary.
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#201 Oct 20 2011 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
hexaemeron wrote:
I don't think it's too much to ask that if I'm supposed to aid a farmer in his fields that there be

a.) A farmer
b.) A farm
c.) Fields with crops

...present. Is that really too much to ask?


I see what you are trying to say. Soemthing along the lines of Elder Scrolls series where every party of the map is unique and detailed and the quest is specific to the area. Monster actually hidden in the wheat. You are right. Compared to that level of detailing FFXIV is very sparse and repetitive.

I really do like the Storyline and Class Quests. Doing those are the only time I feel immersed in a world with actual people and a storyline that I am part of. The Leves do not at all inspire that fleshed out world feeling.

Even Sacred 2 or or Fable has what you are referring to. Fields with crops and unique caves and such that relate to the quest you are on. It would be awesome if they could get the level of detail present in an Elder Scrolls world map into FFXIV. Not just pretty scenery but significant scenery.

Here's hoping the changes to the map designs brings at least a bit of what you are asking for to FFXIV.


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