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Gaming Rig QuestionFollow

#1 Oct 16 2011 at 7:11 PM Rating: Good
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Wanting to pick up a used gaming rig. Is the following rig a good price for $600?

Specs:
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition - That's 6 cores running at 3.3ghz and this can be overclocked to 4ghz or more.
4gb of Ram
1tb Hard Drive
Geforce gtx 460 video card.

Include a USB headset, microsoft sidewinder mouse and a razer keyboard.


Yeah?
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#2 Oct 16 2011 at 7:30 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Yeah, looks solid.
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#3 Oct 16 2011 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
Well that CPU goes for about 199$ new, and that GPU about 150$ new (in canada). Ram for the most part is dirty cheap, like 50$, and that HD depending on the kind is probably about 80$ or so. So you're up to about 480$ there, for new parts. Would have to see the kind of case, PSU, motherboard, etc it is to really see if it's worth it. Overall though, that price seems about right if the rest of the parts are decent.
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#4 Oct 16 2011 at 7:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks guys
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#5 Oct 16 2011 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
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6 core seems better than 4, but if your aim is to find the best performance you can in XIV you will want less cores running at higher base clock speed. XIV doesn't take advantage of the extra cores. Actually, most games don't so you'd be better off with a faster quad core.

That said, it's still a decent price for what you would get. Don't let my words discourage you. Just food for thought.

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Rinsui wrote:
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#6 Oct 16 2011 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
6 core seems better than 4, but if your aim is to find the best performance you can in XIV you will want less cores running at higher base clock speed. XIV doesn't take advantage of the extra cores. Actually, most games don't so you'd be better off with a faster quad core.

That said, it's still a decent price for what you would get. Don't let my words discourage you. Just food for thought.
Worth noting for building a new PC. Still not that huge of a deal anyway.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#7 Oct 16 2011 at 8:29 PM Rating: Decent
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4,145 posts
bsphil wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
6 core seems better than 4, but if your aim is to find the best performance you can in XIV you will want less cores running at higher base clock speed. XIV doesn't take advantage of the extra cores. Actually, most games don't so you'd be better off with a faster quad core.

That said, it's still a decent price for what you would get. Don't let my words discourage you. Just food for thought.
Worth noting for building a new PC. Still not that huge of a deal anyway.

My best advice has been the same all along and just recently got even better. Wait for PS3!

This game is going to be completely overhauled. In a year when people actually have a clear idea of what works best specifically for XIV, OP you'd be better off saving your pennies up and sticking with what you have now unless you're hard up for a PC. Pull the trigger when you have a clear view of what it is you are aiming at.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#8 Oct 16 2011 at 8:55 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
bsphil wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
6 core seems better than 4, but if your aim is to find the best performance you can in XIV you will want less cores running at higher base clock speed. XIV doesn't take advantage of the extra cores. Actually, most games don't so you'd be better off with a faster quad core.

That said, it's still a decent price for what you would get. Don't let my words discourage you. Just food for thought.
Worth noting for building a new PC. Still not that huge of a deal anyway.

My best advice has been the same all along and just recently got even better. Wait for PS3!

This game is going to be completely overhauled. In a year when people actually have a clear idea of what works best specifically for XIV, OP you'd be better off saving your pennies up and sticking with what you have now unless you're hard up for a PC. Pull the trigger when you have a clear view of what it is you are aiming at.
There are games other than FFXIV though.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#9 Oct 16 2011 at 10:16 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
bsphil wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
6 core seems better than 4, but if your aim is to find the best performance you can in XIV you will want less cores running at higher base clock speed. XIV doesn't take advantage of the extra cores. Actually, most games don't so you'd be better off with a faster quad core.

That said, it's still a decent price for what you would get. Don't let my words discourage you. Just food for thought.
Worth noting for building a new PC. Still not that huge of a deal anyway.

My best advice has been the same all along and just recently got even better. Wait for PS3!

This game is going to be completely overhauled. In a year when people actually have a clear idea of what works best specifically for XIV, OP you'd be better off saving your pennies up and sticking with what you have now unless you're hard up for a PC. Pull the trigger when you have a clear view of what it is you are aiming at.
There are games other than FFXIV though.

Bolded for emphasis.

I know it's a pre-built used rig, but the fact still remains that he'd get better performance for gaming in general from a quad with higher clocks despite what the title is. He didn't mention any other games and for the time being, it'd be a fine rig. No dispute there, but if the goal is to maximize his experience then higher clocks win out.

Again, I'm not trying to discourage from buying a hex core processor. I'm typing this post from a 1090T rig and it's worked well for me, but for the same reasons I stated above I game on a quad core. It's just something to think about. He could downgrade to better performance in gaming from that CPU.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#10 Oct 17 2011 at 12:09 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
bsphil wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
bsphil wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
6 core seems better than 4, but if your aim is to find the best performance you can in XIV you will want less cores running at higher base clock speed. XIV doesn't take advantage of the extra cores. Actually, most games don't so you'd be better off with a faster quad core.

That said, it's still a decent price for what you would get. Don't let my words discourage you. Just food for thought.
Worth noting for building a new PC. Still not that huge of a deal anyway.

My best advice has been the same all along and just recently got even better. Wait for PS3!

This game is going to be completely overhauled. In a year when people actually have a clear idea of what works best specifically for XIV, OP you'd be better off saving your pennies up and sticking with what you have now unless you're hard up for a PC. Pull the trigger when you have a clear view of what it is you are aiming at.
There are games other than FFXIV though.

Bolded for emphasis.

I know it's a pre-built used rig, but the fact still remains that he'd get better performance for gaming in general from a quad with higher clocks despite what the title is. He didn't mention any other games and for the time being, it'd be a fine rig. No dispute there, but if the goal is to maximize his experience then higher clocks win out.

Again, I'm not trying to discourage from buying a hex core processor. I'm typing this post from a 1090T rig and it's worked well for me, but for the same reasons I stated above I game on a quad core. It's just something to think about. He could downgrade to better performance in gaming from that CPU.
Are you arguing just to argue? I'm agreeing with you about hex core AMDs. If someone is looking into used PCs there's a good chance that they're not looking at maximizing performance, they just want a deal on something decent. The difference is there, but it's not that big of a deal.

To clarify my last post: There are other games besides FFXIV, so avoid making purchases solely based around it. Don't avoid buying a PC entirely just because "FFXIV is coming out on ps3 in a year and a half!" There are other reasons to have a gaming PC, so don't get too phased that people aren't completely basing purchasing decisions around it. If you want to make an upgrade or buy a new PC, that's fine, but you'd better be planning to do more with it. Going by the numbers, there's a good chance of new players being disappointed with the game.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#11 Oct 17 2011 at 2:26 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Are you arguing just to argue? I'm agreeing with you about hex core AMDs. If someone is looking into used PCs there's a good chance that they're not looking at maximizing performance, they just want a deal on something decent. The difference is there, but it's not that big of a deal.


I'm not arguing at all. I'm merely pointing out that while the specs he listed are more than enough to run XIV comfortably, if he isn't in a rush to get a PC then he could do better. Saving money and getting better performance is kinda a big deal, to me at least.

bsphil wrote:
To clarify my last post: There are other games besides FFXIV, so avoid making purchases solely based around it. Don't avoid buying a PC entirely just because "FFXIV is coming out on ps3 in a year and a half!" There are other reasons to have a gaming PC, so don't get too phased that people aren't completely basing purchasing decisions around it. If you want to make an upgrade or buy a new PC, that's fine, but you'd better be planning to do more with it. Going by the numbers, there's a good chance of new players being disappointed with the game.


I'm not sure why you think I'm arguing with you or that I don't understand your posts. We don't have enough information to say what he's going to use the PC for really. Generally speaking though, when someone comes to a forum for a particular game to ask questions about something they refer to as a 'gaming rig', they want to focus on that specific game. Even if he doesn't, he now knows what the options are and how they will stack up.

Regardless, we've given him several options and enough information to make an educated decision. He knows that what he might buy is a good option, he also knows that a quad core CPU is the best option and if he doesn't need something right away, PS3 is the cheapest option. Knowledge is power.

Edited, Oct 17th 2011 4:29am by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#12 Oct 17 2011 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Again, the disparity between hex core and quad core AMD processors isn't as dramatic as you're making it out to be. It's a difference of at most a few percentage points, and often less than a single percentage point. Here are some gaming benchmarks between a Phenom X6 and a Phenom X4 (as well as some Intel CPUs). Some tests even give a very slight advantage to the X6, even over comparable Intel processors.

It's just not a big deal.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#13 Oct 17 2011 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah I'm aware of the PS3 version coming in... I used to play via Bootcamp on my Mac but I've been having problems with it and would prefer to use a separate machine since the iMac only has a mobile graphics card.

I haven't built this machine it's just one that I found locally for sale and was curious to know if it was a good deal or maybe if I should build something myself. I don't mind playing the unfinished version of the game as I really enjoy watching the evolution of the game and being part of it. Keeps things interesting!

Thanks for all the info guys, I appreciate it!
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#14 Oct 17 2011 at 6:24 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Again, the disparity between hex core and quad core AMD processors isn't as dramatic as you're making it out to be. It's a difference of at most a few percentage points, and often less than a single percentage point. Here are some gaming benchmarks between a Phenom X6 and a Phenom X4 (as well as some Intel CPUs). Some tests even give a very slight advantage to the X6, even over comparable Intel processors.

It's just not a big deal.

Short version:
Regardless of how much of a 'big deal' it is, which is subjective, an increase in performance at a cheaper cost is just better. More performance. Less cost. No-brainer.

Slightly longer version:
Looking further down the road, he has more headroom with higher base clocks if he wants to upgrade only the GPU. FWIW the 5850 used in the bench you posted is not bottlenecked by an 1100. A GTX 460 however, would be. The results would have favored the quad core even more had a GTX 460 been used for the testing for this reason.

It's up to the OP to decide what is 'dramatic' or not since it's going to be his rig. I just wanted to give him information that would not only help him make an informed decision today, but also make him aware of what his options are down the road. If you bought an 1100 and I bought the faster and cheaper 965, assuming we both kept our CPU at stock clocks, I would see a bigger increase in performance if we both upgraded from a 460 to a 480 or higher.

____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#15 Oct 18 2011 at 1:43 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Regardless of how much of a 'big deal' it is, which is subjective, an increase in performance at a cheaper cost is just better. More performance. Less cost. No-brainer.
If it was just as easy to find someone selling a used PC with everything else the same except an X4 phenom inside and shaving a few bucks off the price, I'd completely agree.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#16 Oct 18 2011 at 4:03 AM Rating: Decent
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4,145 posts
bsphil wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Regardless of how much of a 'big deal' it is, which is subjective, an increase in performance at a cheaper cost is just better. More performance. Less cost. No-brainer.
If it was just as easy to find someone selling a used PC with everything else the same except an X4 phenom inside and shaving a few bucks off the price, I'd completely agree.

If getting better performance and a better deal is something he can wait on, it would make sense to do that. If he needs something now then he knows what he's looking at is a good option.

Curious, I searched for a used PC with the X4 and I found that he could get this and add one of these and a headset and he'd have all the same stuff except a smaller hard drive. I think it's a little bit more after shipping, but it's brand new.

Anyhow, we made our points and he's got the info he needs :P
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#18 Oct 18 2011 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
bsphil wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Regardless of how much of a 'big deal' it is, which is subjective, an increase in performance at a cheaper cost is just better. More performance. Less cost. No-brainer.
If it was just as easy to find someone selling a used PC with everything else the same except an X4 phenom inside and shaving a few bucks off the price, I'd completely agree.

If getting better performance and a better deal is something he can wait on, it would make sense to do that. If he needs something now then he knows what he's looking at is a good option.

Curious, I searched for a used PC with the X4 and I found that he could get this and add one of these and a headset and he'd have all the same stuff except a smaller hard drive. I think it's a little bit more after shipping, but it's brand new.

Anyhow, we made our points and he's got the info he needs :P
If you'd seriously wait over that, you're delusional.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#19 Oct 18 2011 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
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horusleroux wrote:
Yeah I'm aware of the PS3 version coming in... I used to play via Bootcamp on my Mac but I've been having problems with it and would prefer to use a separate machine since the iMac only has a mobile graphics card.

I haven't built this machine it's just one that I found locally for sale and was curious to know if it was a good deal or maybe if I should build something myself. I don't mind playing the unfinished version of the game as I really enjoy watching the evolution of the game and being part of it. Keeps things interesting!

Thanks for all the info guys, I appreciate it!



My two cents:

I wouldn't buy a used gaming rig. You don't know what thermal issues it might have, power supply voltage stability issues etc. Does it carry a warranty at all? If you can afford it I'd recommend looking at building your own. As far as gaming goes Intel chips are generally(but not always) going to offer you the best performance, yes amd chips can turn out good performance as well, but Intel is pretty much king of the hill right now and for the foreseeable future. Generally you're also going to get the most bang for your buck by putting most of your funds into the video card, so long as the cpu you choose doesn't hold that video card back.

My current rig is a corei5 750 running at 3.7ghz (1ghz OC) with a radeon 6870 video card and it handles the game just fine. YMWV of course, with settings etc.

So yeah, just be aware of the risks of buying used, and good luck with whatever you choose :)
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#20 Oct 18 2011 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
If you'd seriously wait over that, you're delusional.


It's everything he'd get in the other deal except the HD is smaller, but it's all new. If you're gonna call me delusional then at least say why. Anyway, that's the first thing I found and it took about 3 minutes. I'm sure he can find something better if he takes the time to.

That rig has a 980 that runs at 3.7 base clock. That is the highest base clock available(in range) and gives him comfortable headroom above what is needed to avoid bottlenecking his 460.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
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