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FFXIV Failure (Prime Reason) (if)?Follow

#1 Oct 28 2011 at 3:55 PM Rating: Default
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I think I know how FFXIV will fail. I hope it doesn't.

Never has SE listened to it's customer base so much as when 14 flopped on launch. They sure as **** are listening now and implement many of the idea's floating around the official forums.

When they make updates, people whine about getting it, when others requested it. SE has to flip-flop back and forth to find a balance between those groups of people.

At the end of the day, on re-launch; if 14 truly fails. I think it will because the took too much dam advice from a group of people that are essentially trolling the company; combined with a group that truly wishes to see the game succeed.

People do troll, you know they do. Prime example is a bunch of retards claiming R50 MRD is overpowered when they don't have a job 30+ >.>
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#2 Oct 28 2011 at 5:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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SE! Please change all monster types to little pink bunnies. That's all we want to fight.

(Heh heh heh, boy will those FFXIV fans be ****** when they see this implemented.)
#3 Oct 28 2011 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good
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I will have to disagree. Overall, I have seen nothing but good judgement from the dev team when choosing what advice to take on the official forums. In fact, I am down right astounded at their capacity to shrug off meaningless complaints and dig up meaningful ones.
#4 Oct 28 2011 at 6:16 PM Rating: Excellent
Elionara wrote:
People do troll, you know they do. Prime example is a bunch of retards claiming R50 MRD is overpowered when they don't have a job 30+

I have 4 level 50s one of which is THM. MRD is over powered. They need to reduce it's tp gain just a tad and it will be fine. Either that or increase recast on Storm's Path. When a PT of 6x MRD and 2x CNJ can beat anything in the game, that's a good sign of a class being OP. (And yes 6x MRD and 2x CNJ can beat Ifrit if the MRDs know how to dodge properly.) The point is even if you exclude Ifrit, there is NOTHING in the game that can't be beaten by 6x MRD and 2x CNJ this means there is no need for any other class. Tell me I am trolling, or that I am wrong. You can but a lot of MRDs will be laughing at you.

Just to elaborate on MRD, when fighting a group of mobs 1 swing gives MRD 3k TP then he can dump storms fury twice, another swing and another 3k tp and another storms fury followed 10s later by another storms fury all of which doing 1k damage to everything. so in the short span of what? 20 sec? thats 4k damage to all mobs from one MRD multiply that by 6 thats 24K damage in 20 seconds. There isnt much in the game that needs more then that to die and if it does? Well the 2 CNJs can bomb curaga II long enough for the MRDs too keep on doing it. And with the MRDs massive enmity the mages wont get hate.

Now mind you I don't play MRD so this is second hand ifo fro ma MRD i know and my numbers may be a bit off, but ask any MRD about how much damage they can do in 30 seconds or ask anyone whos been in a 6x MRD pt... everyone will tell you it is way OP. THey may not like the fact that they will get nerfed, but any honest MRD will tell you MRD is OP.

Edited, Oct 28th 2011 8:24pm by StateAlchemist

Edited, Oct 28th 2011 8:25pm by StateAlchemist
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#5 Oct 28 2011 at 7:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Elionara wrote:
I think I know how FFXIV will fail. I hope it doesn't.

Never has SE listened to it's customer base so much as when 14 flopped on launch. They sure as **** are listening now and implement many of the idea's floating around the official forums.

When they make updates, people whine about getting it, when others requested it. SE has to flip-flop back and forth to find a balance between those groups of people.

At the end of the day, on re-launch; if 14 truly fails. I think it will because the took too much dam advice from a group of people that are essentially trolling the company; combined with a group that truly wishes to see the game succeed.

People do troll, you know they do. Prime example is a bunch of retards claiming R50 MRD is overpowered when they don't have a job 30+ >.>



The ONLY chance, and I mean ONLY chance SE has of making FFXIV not fail is if they change the in-game font to the Mr. Saturn font from earthbound! PERIOD!

It would also help them if they only release future announcements in that font also. ZOOM!
#6 Oct 28 2011 at 8:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Hulan wrote:
I will have to disagree. Overall, I have seen nothing but good judgement from the dev team when choosing what advice to take on the official forums. In fact, I am down right astounded at their capacity to shrug off meaningless complaints and dig up meaningful ones.



The point wasn't that they haven't shown good judgment so far but that if they do start listening to the wrong people it will end baddly, or that's what I took away from the OP at least.
On that note, I agree, any dev team that listens to thier players too much will end up ruining the game the are working on. Even intelligent players who only want the best for a game can rarely have any clue about what thier changes will effect.
#7 Oct 28 2011 at 8:38 PM Rating: Good
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If they are dumb enough to implement stupid suggestions made by players, then they are too dumb to have any hope of coming up with good ideas on their own.
#8 Oct 28 2011 at 10:09 PM Rating: Good
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It might not happen, but just in case it does, I'd like to say this now and link to it a year later:

Listening to people too much will turn FFXIV into a WoW clone. FFXIV will subsequently fail like other WoW clones because people don't actually always want to play WoW. Blizzard's next MMO will be an MMORPG with a class-changing "armoury system" and a revolutionary new idea that involves making crafting its own class; the game will be an astounding success, breaking twenty million players for the first time in MMO history.
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#9 Oct 28 2011 at 10:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Final Fantasy isn't going to "fail" LOL. If you guys don't get the picture that it hasn't failed yet... after that release... it's not failing.
#10 Oct 28 2011 at 11:25 PM Rating: Decent
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it hasnt failed because it went free to play. not trying to be rude but i dont think the game is ready to go to pay to play in the time they want it to.
#11 Oct 28 2011 at 11:53 PM Rating: Decent
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It's not going to fail... people have invested too much time etc. They may at first not sign up the payments, but as soon as they start seeing new updates etc they won't be able to stay away. Simple human nature.
#12 Oct 29 2011 at 12:42 AM Rating: Good
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has 6 mrd, 2 conj on Ifrit been done before? not saying it can't work, but I don't think they'd be that overpowered in that fight in particular. MRD TP gain isn't that hot on 1 mob and we've had ls members go mrd, lnc, pgl to that fight and lnc beats out all. if there is a video of 6 mrd, 2 conj i'd like to see it.

do agree that mrd tp gain on a group of mobs is insane, considering they nerfed arc tp gain on multishot there does need to be some balance there.
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#13 Oct 29 2011 at 1:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Sure you can kill Ifrit, but it's much harder to do so as quickly as replacing MRD with LNC. Heck you can probably kill Ifrit with GLA replacing MRD but that gonna take a long long time.
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#14 Oct 29 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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I'm enjoying the game too much to care.
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#15 Oct 31 2011 at 8:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elionara wrote:
I think I know how FFXIV will fail. I hope it doesn't.


Actually the game is better, if it was released now instead of a year ago it would of done better. If it fails it will fail because of its bad launch. SE is one of the top game makers and the game they released was appauling to SE standards let alone gaming standards, the game was not worthy of a monthly price tag let alone the full price to purchase it originally.

If FFXIV fails it would be 100% down to the state on launch day which in turn is down the the directors because at the end of the day they are the ones who decide if launch is a go or not. (I know I work in a job which deals with similar things).
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#16 Oct 31 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lonix wrote:
If it fails it will fail because of its bad launch.


This. No matter how good the game gets (and in my opinion it is getting pretty good with a shot at being great), it is very unlikely it will ever have much more than a niche following simply because of that launch. I am actually very surprised SE devoted so many resources to rebuild the game when the chances of it succeeding after the initial reception is so small. SE hasn't proven to be much of risk-takers the last decade or so.
#17 Oct 31 2011 at 12:05 PM Rating: Default
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A failed launch could harm a game's (or any product's) success in the market. But I am not sure that will hamper FFXIV's success that much.

FFXIV is different from many other MMORPGs. It is Square, and it IS a final fantasy game. It will already inherit all the final fantasy fans (of whom there are many), and get a lot of interest from FFXI players.

Also, FFXI was never 'mainstream' (not as popular as WoW or EQ by any means), yet it did well enough and has lasted a long time (getting on a decade at least?).

I feel confident that SE et al will put the resources needed behind FFXIV to make it succesful; they can afford to do it, they can succeed in doing it (you have to admit, its a VERY good gaming company behind this), and I'm sure they do not want to have a 'failed' final fantasy game in their franchise (I think every other game they did was considered good or succesful?).

I do not think it is a question of when (or if) it will fail. But rather, when it will be as good as FFXI.

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#18 Oct 31 2011 at 12:07 PM Rating: Default
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Can kill Ifrit with out a MRD or a LNC, it takes a little bit longer but it can be done. As well don't need every class to 50 to fight/kill him, just some key skill.

As is i would say things are close to balanced, looking back at XI and comparing it seems bang on. MRD and LNC come a step ahead on Ifrit as they have more muscle for big game. PUG and ARC will probably have there moment to shine on Garuda or Moogle were you may need fast hits to take down shadows. And GLD needs a fix bad lol. You can not have every job match every other job step for step in every fight. Am sure people remember XI were you needed to be job X or might as well not even ask for invite.
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#19 Oct 31 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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I can't believe you guys think this game is going to fail after the fact that it hasn't failed in a year after a crappy launch, not to mention the fact it's going to get re-reviewed in EVERY single major game magazine when the PS3 launch drops.

I honestly think you all just need something to talk about.
#20 Oct 31 2011 at 12:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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je355804 wrote:
I can't believe you guys think this game is going to fail after the fact that it hasn't failed in a year after a crappy launch


What do you mean it hasn't failed? It is VERY much in the red at this point. It will be a long time before this game ever turns a profit, and that day ever coming is still very much questionable. Just because the servers are running, does not mean the game is succeeding. The game has one of the largest gaming developers at the helm and the namesake of its biggest franchise. Under any other circumstances this game would have been dead and buried shortly after launch, not given enormous resources to completely remake the game.

Don't get me wrong, I have high hopes this game can rebound and do decent. But as of right now, the game has not accomplished anything but high profit losses (and reputation hits) for the company.

Edited, Oct 31st 2011 3:01pm by Vawn43
#21 Oct 31 2011 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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My friends that grew up on FFXI are jaded towards MMORPGs. Some of them have kids and careers that take up their time and energy, but a lot of people just got tired of the grind, the jumping through hoops to get stuff, the endgame drama. Speaking for myself, I remember being in EXP parties that lasted 6 to 8 hours. Towards the end of my FFXI run, I couldn't get myself to 3 hours. Not even easy mode (read: Abyssea) could keep me interested.

I think what kept a lot of people going, in the early years, was that magic of playing an MMORPG for the first time, meeting people from all over the world, developing a character piece by piece as you collected rare gear and weapons. That magic just ain't there in FFXIV. People are complaining not just about a lack of communication, but what seems like a decidedly introvert community that lacked the carefree humor and amicable nature of FFXI in its infancy.

SE can develop the best MMORPG ever, but if a great game is made, yet nobody is there to play it, is it still a great game?
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#22 Oct 31 2011 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
I expect them to change all AoE moves' TP gain to be equal to the same as the TP gain from hitting a single mob.
#23 Oct 31 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Excellent
je355804 wrote:

I can't believe you guys think this game is going to fail after the fact that it hasn't failed in a year after a crappy launch


Sorry to say, but this game has already failed. There's a reason why they're scrapping the graphics engine, combat system, the old team, current story, and a ton of other things and re-launching FFXIV 2.0. If it hadn't failed, they wouldn't be re-doing an entire game. 2.0 might be successful, but who knows at this point, it's far too early to tell considering it could take into 2013 for it to hit full stride.
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#24 Oct 31 2011 at 5:06 PM Rating: Decent
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The only combat adjustment we got was the removal of physical leve's and the new calculations based off FFXI's mechanics, so i think its okay to be concerned but not pass any serious judgement.

In this interview (http://jpgames.de/2011/10/jpgames-de-our-interview-with-naoki-yoshida/) yoshi-P makes the point of looking at criticize from hardcore media separate from console media. So i think he understands where his criticism is coming from.
#25 Oct 31 2011 at 5:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
je355804 wrote:

I can't believe you guys think this game is going to fail after the fact that it hasn't failed in a year after a crappy launch


Sorry to say, but this game has already failed. There's a reason why they're scrapping the graphics engine, combat system, the old team, current story, and a ton of other things and re-launching FFXIV 2.0. If it hadn't failed, they wouldn't be re-doing an entire game. 2.0 might be successful, but who knows at this point, it's far too early to tell considering it could take into 2013 for it to hit full stride.


Exactly.
The optimists will cover their eyes but the FF14 that was released failed a year ago.
I do hope 2.0 is successful. I do very much love this franchise after all.
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#26 Oct 31 2011 at 5:40 PM Rating: Default
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Vawn43 wrote:
je355804 wrote:
I can't believe you guys think this game is going to fail after the fact that it hasn't failed in a year after a crappy launch


What do you mean it hasn't failed? It is VERY much in the red at this point. It will be a long time before this game ever turns a profit, and that day ever coming is still very much questionable. Just because the servers are running, does not mean the game is succeeding. The game has one of the largest gaming developers at the helm and the namesake of its biggest franchise. Under any other circumstances this game would have been dead and buried shortly after launch, not given enormous resources to completely remake the game.

Don't get me wrong, I have high hopes this game can rebound and do decent. But as of right now, the game has not accomplished anything but high profit losses (and reputation hits) for the company.

Edited, Oct 31st 2011 3:01pm by Vawn43



LMAO that's funny... last time I logged in there were people to play and talk with. Looks like it hasn't failed.

P.S. I don't give a flying rats behind on wednesdays if this game turns a profit. I care if there are people to log on and have an awesome game experience with. Which there are ---- thus my conclusion in this game hasn't failed!
#27 Oct 31 2011 at 5:45 PM Rating: Default
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lambon wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
je355804 wrote:

I can't believe you guys think this game is going to fail after the fact that it hasn't failed in a year after a crappy launch


Sorry to say, but this game has already failed. There's a reason why they're scrapping the graphics engine, combat system, the old team, current story, and a ton of other things and re-launching FFXIV 2.0. If it hadn't failed, they wouldn't be re-doing an entire game. 2.0 might be successful, but who knows at this point, it's far too early to tell considering it could take into 2013 for it to hit full stride.


Exactly.
The optimists will cover their eyes but the FF14 that was released failed a year ago.
I do hope 2.0 is successful. I do very much love this franchise after all.



I bet you guys have this same negative outlook for everything in your life (to which you will now vehemently deny.)

Anyways, I'm going to go back to playing the "failure."

P.S. Why sit around on a video game board for a game you consider to have failed??? Have you nothing better to do?

While you're at it ... you should check out the Age of Conan boards. Perhaps if you're really feeling like hanging around forums of failed games you can head on over to a Vanguard: Saga of Heroes board!!! I suggest this, because this is your hobby right?
#28 Oct 31 2011 at 6:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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je355804 wrote:
P.S. I don't give a flying rats behind on wednesdays if this game turns a profit. I care if there are people to log on and have an awesome game experience with. Which there are ---- thus my conclusion in this game hasn't failed!


Ahh, but you should care if it's profitable, you should care very much - at least if you want that "Awesome game experience" to continue.

An MMO that doesn't turn a profit is an MMO that gets shut down.

SE is doing what they are with the game in the hopes that they can somehow transform it into a profitable state. If they can't do that, then make no mistake, the game will be shut down, your "awesome game experiences" notwithstanding.
#29 Oct 31 2011 at 7:17 PM Rating: Excellent
je355804 wrote:
Vawn43 wrote:
je355804 wrote:
I can't believe you guys think this game is going to fail after the fact that it hasn't failed in a year after a crappy launch


What do you mean it hasn't failed? It is VERY much in the red at this point. It will be a long time before this game ever turns a profit, and that day ever coming is still very much questionable. Just because the servers are running, does not mean the game is succeeding. The game has one of the largest gaming developers at the helm and the namesake of its biggest franchise. Under any other circumstances this game would have been dead and buried shortly after launch, not given enormous resources to completely remake the game.

Don't get me wrong, I have high hopes this game can rebound and do decent. But as of right now, the game has not accomplished anything but high profit losses (and reputation hits) for the company.

Edited, Oct 31st 2011 3:01pm by Vawn43



LMAO that's funny... last time I logged in there were people to play and talk with. Looks like it hasn't failed.

P.S. I don't give a flying rats behind on wednesdays if this game turns a profit. I care if there are people to log on and have an awesome game experience with. Which there are ---- thus my conclusion in this game hasn't failed!


je355804 wrote:
lambon wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
je355804 wrote:

I can't believe you guys think this game is going to fail after the fact that it hasn't failed in a year after a crappy launch


Sorry to say, but this game has already failed. There's a reason why they're scrapping the graphics engine, combat system, the old team, current story, and a ton of other things and re-launching FFXIV 2.0. If it hadn't failed, they wouldn't be re-doing an entire game. 2.0 might be successful, but who knows at this point, it's far too early to tell considering it could take into 2013 for it to hit full stride.


Exactly.
The optimists will cover their eyes but the FF14 that was released failed a year ago.
I do hope 2.0 is successful. I do very much love this franchise after all.



I bet you guys have this same negative outlook for everything in your life (to which you will now vehemently deny.)

Anyways, I'm going to go back to playing the "failure."

P.S. Why sit around on a video game board for a game you consider to have failed??? Have you nothing better to do?

While you're at it ... you should check out the Age of Conan boards. Perhaps if you're really feeling like hanging around forums of failed games you can head on over to a Vanguard: Saga of Heroes board!!! I suggest this, because this is your hobby right?


Well, I'm at work, with nothing better to do and following forums on a game that I have interest in. Did I at any point say I hate the game? That I don't play the game? No. I suppose you can argue the definition of failure and success all day. If this is not a failure to you, is it a success? All an MMO needs now is a small population and it's not a failure? I guess we'll settle with, this game didn't achieve expectations.

Like others have said, had it not been for SE's huge funds, this game would of been DOA. Any other company, this game would have been an utter failure. Funny you bring up Age of Conan though, it still has a population, and people to talk to... so why is that one a failure?
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#30 Oct 31 2011 at 8:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Exactly. I am enjoying the game as well and am hoping for it succeed. But, I'm sorry "je-bunchofnumbers" the game has failed. Ask the reviewers, the stock holders or SE themselves - they all agree, the game has failed.

I hope the game makes it. A new team is getting a shot where the old team, um..., failed. But just by the nature of a failed launch, their chances of success are much less.

Look at it this way, sunshine boy, if for the next five years every single person actively playing this game subscribed to the monthly fees and not one person left, yet not one new person joined, the game would either be shut down or worse become free-to-play cash-shop game. The only hopes this game has (and I do agree its a good game now, and could be great) is for something that has never happened before to happen - people have to give it another chance just like it was a brand new game.

Perhaps, reviewers will give the game a fresh review like you predict. I am guessing a lot won't though. They don't owe it to SE, and it isn't common practice to re-review an MMO by most of the major game reviewers. And even if they do, they are going to be critical as **** after the initial game. Chances are you won't be seeing 5-star reviews from many sites, no matter what the final product is.

Sorry to be a downer, but these are just the cards that are stacked against this game. You don't have to believe it or understand it (because it sure as **** doesn't sound like you do), they are just the facts.
#31 Oct 31 2011 at 9:50 PM Rating: Good
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Vawn43 wrote:
Perhaps, reviewers will give the game a fresh review like you predict. I am guessing a lot won't though. They don't owe it to SE, and it isn't common practice to re-review an MMO by most of the major game reviewers.


I actually think that it is common practice to re-review MMOs. I know that FFXI got re-reviews from a few major gaming websites; and games like LotRO and DDO also got second looks once they went micro-transaction.

That said, I do agree that sites will be hard to win over. Gaming sites generally hate what they want to hate from the beginning and love what they already loved no matter how mediocre it turns out to be. It's why WoW's "revolutionary" quests blow IGN's mind every single time. It's why so many reviews for traditional RPGs begin with someone complaining about random battles, hard fights, and level-grinding: they're going to dislike a game from the start, and they're also probably not the target market, anyway (but they'll complain as though something like, say, Nostalgia, is actively marketing itself as a genre-shattering FPS). Oh, well, maybe I digress too much. :P
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#32 Nov 01 2011 at 10:31 AM Rating: Default
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
[quote=je355804][quote=Vawn43][quote=je355804]


Like others have said, had it not been for SE's huge funds, this game would of been DOA.




Yet they do have those huge funds.... so how is this relevant? And are we really going to have a back and forth about the semantics of the word failure?

Let us agree to have differing opinions.

Although, I will say you make good points... When FFXIV 2.0 comes it the game is going to get re-reviewed. If the game has indeed improved, I whole heartedly believe the game can be amongst the top level of MMOs.
#33 Nov 01 2011 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Vawn43 wrote:
Exactly. I am enjoying the game as well and am hoping for it succeed. But, I'm sorry "je-bunchofnumbers" the game has failed. Ask the reviewers, the stock holders or SE themselves - they all agree, the game has failed.

I hope the game makes it. A new team is getting a shot where the old team, um..., failed. But just by the nature of a failed launch, their chances of success are much less.

Look at it this way, sunshine boy, if for the next five years every single person actively playing this game subscribed to the monthly fees and not one person left, yet not one new person joined, the game would either be shut down or worse become free-to-play cash-shop game. The only hopes this game has (and I do agree its a good game now, and could be great) is for something that has never happened before to happen - people have to give it another chance just like it was a brand new game.

Perhaps, reviewers will give the game a fresh review like you predict. I am guessing a lot won't though. They don't owe it to SE, and it isn't common practice to re-review an MMO by most of the major game reviewers. And even if they do, they are going to be critical as **** after the initial game. Chances are you won't be seeing 5-star reviews from many sites, no matter what the final product is.

Sorry to be a downer, but these are just the cards that are stacked against this game. You don't have to believe it or understand it (because it sure as **** doesn't sound like you do), they are just the facts.



You're right! How could I not see it!?!?! A company that is worth hundreds of millions of dollars is clearly going to let their franchise game go free-to-play cash-shop! Or even close down the servers perhaps!!!


Edited, Nov 1st 2011 12:42pm by je355804
#34 Nov 01 2011 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
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While I agree that there are instances where game developers have allowed the direction of the game to be misdirected by the masses (Blizzard anyone?), I do not feel that SE will fall into this trap. The key difference is the caliber of players who follow SE. Whereas WoW has been overrun by casuals who thought they wanted everything handed to them, FF players just want a functional environment where they can enjoy the story and challenge (naturally there are many exceptions to these generalities).

Based on the suggestions and discussions that I have observed in my forum lurking since closed beta of XIV, I would say that posters fall into 2 categories: 1st group identifies specific issues with the game / game play and recommends solutions - 2nd group identifies specific issues and cries that it is game breaking and threatens to leave and take their whole LS with them. SE has already proven, through the release of the 2.0 preview data and implementation outline, that they are listening to group 1 and running the ideas through the sive of "does this support the end-goal of XIV." I have no doubt that this game will outlast such failures as Rift, Aion, Conan and other player directed development games (regarding total life-cycle) because Square Enix takes pride in what the end results look like.
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#35 Nov 01 2011 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think you're putting too much weight behind the value of a FF MMO does to the rest of the numbered series. The "damage" to FFXIV is already done, and most people didn't care. Most people ignore FF games that arent for their primary consoles and in the same genre they've always played, even if they are numbered. FFXIV 2.0 will have the oppertunity to gain some good will, but nothing can ever be done to erase the memory of the time SE sold us a POS.


I also think you're forgetting the massive amounts of crap that has been released with the FF name attached to it in the past decade. People are not morons who need FF14 to be successful to consider buying FF15, it'll go down in the same column as Dirge of cerberus, crystal chronicles, or crystal defenders. More specifically, games that had no business being considered part of the main series, but were smart enough not to try and pretend to be.
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#36 Nov 01 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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I think X-2 should be added to your list. SE is not above making mistakes, but at least with an MMO release they have a chance to fix the problem, as opposed to a console release where they can only hope that it is forgotten.
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#37 Nov 01 2011 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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je355804 wrote:

You're right! How could I not see it!?!?! A company that is worth hundreds of millions of dollars is clearly going to let their franchise game go free-to-play cash-shop! Or even close down the servers perhaps!!!


I've seen fanboys before, but very few as ignorant as you.

IDK exactly how much money SE is worth ("hundreds of millions"), but no matter how big a company is, it still has to turn a profit. Running an MMO, especially one on the scale of FFXIV, is a very risky and expensive endeavor even for a large developer. Don't forget this huge company came extremely close to bankruptcy with another big project failure with the Final Fantasy name attachment.

When talking about the reasons to re-make the failed game, SE said that the company would not be able to keep the current game running for very long. It was (is) losing the company every month, and unless that changes, no, they would not keep the servers running.

I'm happy for you that you are able to have such a bright outlook on things. Your ability to ignore all negative comments about the game even the ones that come directly from SquareEnix's mouth is truly impressive.
#38Dyrwydi, Posted: Nov 01 2011 at 2:47 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You are missing a distinct difference between the western business model mentality and the japanese business model mentality. Whereas in most of Europe and the US businesses live and die by dollars and cents, in Japan there is the added element of honor. Failure costs more than fighting for ones honor. SE won't let FFXIV fail because that would cause more problems with the investors than cutting their losses and investing in a successful product. In their minds all that they need to do is hit some yet-unseen mark that they consider "success" and then they will cut development and support (similar to what they did with FFXI after the drop from 1.2mil to <800k subscribers) and move on to more profitable endeavors.
#39 Nov 01 2011 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dyrwydi wrote:
Vawn43 wrote:
je355804 wrote:

You're right! How could I not see it!?!?! A company that is worth hundreds of millions of dollars is clearly going to let their franchise game go free-to-play cash-shop! Or even close down the servers perhaps!!!


I've seen fanboys before, but very few as ignorant as you.

IDK exactly how much money SE is worth ("hundreds of millions"), but no matter how big a company is, it still has to turn a profit. Running an MMO, especially one on the scale of FFXIV, is a very risky and expensive endeavor even for a large developer. Don't forget this huge company came extremely close to bankruptcy with another big project failure with the Final Fantasy name attachment.

When talking about the reasons to re-make the failed game, SE said that the company would not be able to keep the current game running for very long. It was (is) losing the company every month, and unless that changes, no, they would not keep the servers running.

I'm happy for you that you are able to have such a bright outlook on things. Your ability to ignore all negative comments about the game even the ones that come directly from SquareEnix's mouth is truly impressive.


You are missing a distinct difference between the western business model mentality and the japanese business model mentality. Whereas in most of Europe and the US businesses live and die by dollars and cents, in Japan there is the added element of honor. Failure costs more than fighting for ones honor. SE won't let FFXIV fail because that would cause more problems with the investors than cutting their losses and investing in a successful product. In their minds all that they need to do is hit some yet-unseen mark that they consider "success" and then they will cut development and support (similar to what they did with FFXI after the drop from 1.2mil to <800k subscribers) and move on to more profitable endeavors.


Is this really actually true though? I'm pretty sure that japan is more or less going along with international business standards and practices by this point, and not the business-samurai view we had of them in the 80s.
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#40 Nov 01 2011 at 3:06 PM Rating: Default
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KujaKoF wrote:

Is this really actually true though? I'm pretty sure that japan is more or less going along with international business standards and practices by this point, and not the business-samurai view we had of them in the 80s.


FFXIV wasn't a strong enough example of it for you?

Then let's look at Nintendo's public apology for messing up the launch of 3DS, and Sony's prostrating for the PSN hacks (even though more Xbox Live accounts have been comrpimised over the time than that entire incident, yet has not apologized once publicly.)

I think there's more enough evidence to believe that Japaneese companies still value their honor, at least over that of some Western Companies.
#41 Nov 01 2011 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
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je355804 wrote:
lambon wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
je355804 wrote:

I can't believe you guys think this game is going to fail after the fact that it hasn't failed in a year after a crappy launch


Sorry to say, but this game has already failed. There's a reason why they're scrapping the graphics engine, combat system, the old team, current story, and a ton of other things and re-launching FFXIV 2.0. If it hadn't failed, they wouldn't be re-doing an entire game. 2.0 might be successful, but who knows at this point, it's far too early to tell considering it could take into 2013 for it to hit full stride.


Exactly.
The optimists will cover their eyes but the FF14 that was released failed a year ago.
I do hope 2.0 is successful. I do very much love this franchise after all.



I bet you guys have this same negative outlook for everything in your life (to which you will now vehemently deny.)

Anyways, I'm going to go back to playing the "failure."

P.S. Why sit around on a video game board for a game you consider to have failed??? Have you nothing better to do?

While you're at it ... you should check out the Age of Conan boards. Perhaps if you're really feeling like hanging around forums of failed games you can head on over to a Vanguard: Saga of Heroes board!!! I suggest this, because this is your hobby right?


You have issues you need to sort out. Like I stated before, I love the Final Fantasy franchise. This board, believe it or not, is to speak with other people with similar interests; more specifically, Final Fantasy 14. I do recall stating that I want 2.0 to be successful. You don't even need to scroll up, it's quoted in here!
Perhaps English isn't your first language or you simply cannot fathom the idea of someone stating an opinion that contradicts yours. What ever the case may be, get it through your thick skull that I genuinely love Final Fantasy and even if I did not, have every right to come here and state my opinion without being subjected to prejudice.
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#42 Nov 01 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Default
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I actually think, that ffxiv will be able to come on top come v2.0. Not because of anything complicated more along the line of simplicity. Next year this time from what i know and feel free to correct me, we will have SW:TOR at one year old. TERA, GW2, Diablo 2 at ~6 or so months old, and the WoW expansion out on the market. If we look at each one of those games predecessors, you can see that at most they can keep a full house for ~3 to 4 months. So when v2 comes out the other games will be past the boom at launch. As such if v2 delivers with a boom of it's own and is able to keep people even after the hype is gone i can see xiv becoming very successful.
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#43 Nov 01 2011 at 3:12 PM Rating: Default
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TwiddleDee wrote:
I actually think, that ffxiv will be able to come on top come v2.0. Not because of anything complicated more along the line of simplicity. Next year this time from what i know and feel free to correct me, we will have SW:TOR at one year old. TERA, GW2, Diablo 2 at ~6 or so months old, and the WoW expansion out on the market. If we look at each one of those games predecessors, you can see that at most they can keep a full house for ~3 to 4 months. So when v2 comes out the other games will be past the boom at launch. As such if v2 delivers with a boom of it's own and is able to keep people even after the hype is gone i can see xiv becoming very successful.


I think you are correct, the timing should right to draw a decent, if not possibly significant, influx of subscribers.
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#44 Nov 01 2011 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Is anyone able to theorize how much content you can conjure in one year?
Assuming the engine they are using is already available and I think we can all acknowledge it will be easier to deal with than crystal tools.
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#45 Nov 01 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:

Is this really actually true though? I'm pretty sure that japan is more or less going along with international business standards and practices by this point, and not the business-samurai view we had of them in the 80s.


FFXIV wasn't a strong enough example of it for you?

Then let's look at Nintendo's public apology for messing up the launch of 3DS, and Sony's prostrating for the PSN hacks (even though more Xbox Live accounts have been comrpimised over the time than that entire incident, yet has not apologized once publicly.)

I think there's more enough evidence to believe that Japaneese companies still value their honor, at least over that of some Western Companies.


FFXIV supports the idea that an idea working > the idea being profitable. they're forcing that as much as they can to try and get it to work, I can see the argument there. You're other examples are just 2 examples of good customer service i suppose by companies that happen to be japanese. the PSN thing was absolutely sony's fault, it was a problem with their own security. If you have some evidence to show that it was microsofts fault that live accounts got hacked, and not just players who got their stuff hacked because of something they did, I'll consider that relevant.
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#46 Nov 01 2011 at 3:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dyrwydi wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
I actually think, that ffxiv will be able to come on top come v2.0. Not because of anything complicated more along the line of simplicity. Next year this time from what i know and feel free to correct me, we will have SW:TOR at one year old. TERA, GW2, Diablo 2 at ~6 or so months old, and the WoW expansion out on the market. If we look at each one of those games predecessors, you can see that at most they can keep a full house for ~3 to 4 months. So when v2 comes out the other games will be past the boom at launch. As such if v2 delivers with a boom of it's own and is able to keep people even after the hype is gone i can see xiv becoming very successful.


I think you are correct, the timing should right to draw a decent, if not possibly significant, influx of subscribers.


I think if 2.0 goes well, the game has a good chance of lasting for a couple years, and be relatively successful in terms of income > expenses, even if they never recover their costs. What I think will hold them back, is that FFXIV will always be a grindy party based game. its what it is, and its what the people playing have been telling SE they want. Thats their thing, and its what will make them different. But not many people are into that kind of thing.
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#47 Nov 01 2011 at 3:52 PM Rating: Default
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KujaKoF wrote:

sniped


Well the entire concept of final fantasy is based on a group, party, alliance coordinating to accomplish a goal. Be it level up of beet a monster on unimaginable strength. In other games it's 1 to cap solo, with the rare assistance of some one else. At it's core the FF series are based of togetherness start to end. Not to each his own, if we succeed we fight over the spoils. That is what attracts people to this game. There's enough solo based mmo's out there.
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#48 Nov 01 2011 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
Dyrwydi wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
I actually think, that ffxiv will be able to come on top come v2.0. Not because of anything complicated more along the line of simplicity. Next year this time from what i know and feel free to correct me, we will have SW:TOR at one year old. TERA, GW2, Diablo 2 at ~6 or so months old, and the WoW expansion out on the market. If we look at each one of those games predecessors, you can see that at most they can keep a full house for ~3 to 4 months. So when v2 comes out the other games will be past the boom at launch. As such if v2 delivers with a boom of it's own and is able to keep people even after the hype is gone i can see xiv becoming very successful.


I think you are correct, the timing should right to draw a decent, if not possibly significant, influx of subscribers.


I think if 2.0 goes well, the game has a good chance of lasting for a couple years, and be relatively successful in terms of income > expenses, even if they never recover their costs. What I think will hold them back, is that FFXIV will always be a grindy party based game. its what it is, and its what the people playing have been telling SE they want. Thats their thing, and its what will make them different. But not many people are into that kind of thing.


From a new player's perspective, you are correct, the game appears to be very grindy, but FFXI and XIV are not designed for the leveling experience, they are designed as foundations to a central story supported by off-shoot stories. This is something that I think SE is working to overcome, because you can't grow a strong community if people keep burning out before they reach the "end-game" content at max level. Grind up to play the real game concept needs further adjustment, yes, but once there a whole new world opens up... or at least it should, once the devs can get back to focusing on that.

No one plays other MMOs because it's fun to level up, they play them because it's fun to put on shiny new gear (which is going to take a party or group, in ANY MMO, a lot of grinding to get) - this being the catch 22 for SE. If the task of leveling is this hard, how much harder will it be to acquire that new shiny piece? This scares off the average "casual" player, of which, my guess anyway, you are not one. This means that you concerns are likely something that SE is taking into consideration... oh how I hope that I am right.
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#49 Nov 01 2011 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dyrwydi wrote:

You are missing a distinct difference between the western business model mentality and the japanese business model mentality. Whereas in most of Europe and the US businesses live and die by dollars and cents, in Japan there is the added element of honor. Failure costs more than fighting for ones honor.


Have you been watching the same company as I have since even before Square and Enix merged? The company has done the video game equivalent of whoring out its most beloved franchise. Look at how many times the early games have been "remade" lately? Why? Because these cheap 16 or 32-bit style 2D games are extremely easy to port and have proven to be profitable, even as their fans continue to grumble under their breath. Why make FFX-2 and FFXIII-2? They use the same graphics engines and at least in the case of X-2, 90% of the exact same zones. The costs to make these were cheap and they knew they would sell, regardless of how well they were received.

And why port an HD version of FFX to the PS3 instead of the a remake of FFVII fans have been crying for for years? Because there is almost nothing to do to port a PS2 game to an HD version on PS3. Speaking of FFVII, the company didn't mind whoring out the most beloved game in their most beloved franchise either, with a slate of mediocre spin-offs. That's just some examples of what SE has done lately with the Final Fantasy series. You don't think bottom line profits is the reasons for all the shortcuts it has taken with the FF series? Well, it sure isn't "honor".

Edited, Nov 1st 2011 6:30pm by Vawn43
#50 Nov 01 2011 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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TwiddleDee wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:

sniped


Well the entire concept of final fantasy is based on a group, party, alliance coordinating to accomplish a goal. Be it level up of beet a monster on unimaginable strength. In other games it's 1 to cap solo, with the rare assistance of some one else. At it's core the FF series are based of togetherness start to end. Not to each his own, if we succeed we fight over the spoils. That is what attracts people to this game. There's enough solo based mmo's out there.


That's not the Final Fantasy concept; the overall concept of the series is an unlikely group of heroes inevitably coming together to save the world from a great evil. There's nothing about this concept that suggests that I should spend the better part of a week mindlessly killing monsters for experience points just so that I can earn the privilege of watching some cutscenes.

I can tell you right now that I haven't felt very heroic in my time in FFXIV; the main storyline missions from the Tanaka era had me as a mere observer while the characters from the opening cutscenes of the game do all the cool ****. Contrast this with WoW, where you had saved the city of Stormwind from a group of disgruntled masons-turned-bandits who had salvaged and repaired a working Orc battleship that could have completely decimated the city as early as level 18; what's more, you helped the ramshackle militia that had been dealing with said bandits find a little peace. While most of the questline was soloable, I still needed the help of like-minded and able-bodied heroes to storm their hideout and defeat their leader before he could execute his plan. I don't know how anybody could argue against getting to actually be a hero so that they can go mindlessly kill **** that has nothing to do with anything so that they can watch other characters do awesome **** in non-interactive cutscenes.

It's a sad day when ******* WoW is more of a Final Fantasy MMO than a ******* Final Fantasy MMO.
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Don't play that game anymore. :P
#51 Nov 01 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Default
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Vawn43 wrote:
Dyrwydi wrote:

snipped for space


Have you been watching the same company as I have since even before Square and Enix merged? The company has done the video game equivalent of whoring out its most beloved franchise. Look at how many times the early games have been "remade" lately? Why? Because these cheap 16 or 32-bit style 2D games are extremely easy to port and have proven to be profitable, even as their fans continue to grumble under their breath. Why make FFX-2 and FFXIII-2? They use the same graphics engines and at least in the case of X-2, 90% of the exact same zones. The costs to make these were cheap and they knew they would sell, regardless of how well they were received.

And why port an HD version of FFX to the PS3 instead of the a remake of FFVII fans have been crying for for years? Because there is almost nothing to do to port a PS2 game to an HD version on PS3. Speaking of FFVII, the company didn't mind whoring out the most beloved game in their most beloved franchise either, with a slate of mediocre spin-offs. That's just some examples of what SE has done lately with the Final Fantasy series. You don't think bottom line profits is the reasons for all the shortcuts it has taken with the FF series? Well, it sure isn't "honor".

Edited, Nov 1st 2011 6:30pm by Vawn43


I am not saying that SE operates solely on the principle of honor, just that it is a factor, unlike in westernized business. I am under no delusions about SE's willingness to make wrong decisions for the sake of money. The principle of "honor" in business has nothing to do with right or wrong, but rather has to do with success or failure. I am in agreement that SE has bastardized some of the most beloved video games just to make a quick $8 on the iPhone market, released a cheesy movie, released extended story content on a junk game-play system, or shifted the genre in the wrong direction with junk like Dirge of Cerberus. Despite that fact, all of these games made them money and from a business standpoint can be considered "successes" thereby retaining their corporate sense of honor.
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