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FFXIV Failure (Prime Reason) (if)?Follow

#52je355804, Posted: Nov 01 2011 at 7:58 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So perhaps they'll release the PS3 version (which is 1 year away) and then close down the servers when.... a few months later?
#53 Nov 01 2011 at 8:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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I never said the game doesn't have a chance to succeed. I just said so far it has fallen flat on its face and has cost the company a boat-load of cash. That falls in the category of failing in my opinion.

The fact that the game has to be completely re-worked should make it apparent that the game has failed. Obviously, SE isn't going in to it thinking the game has no chance to rebound, or it wouldn't be throwing even more money at it. However, the cards are stacked very highly against Yoshi and the new team, not for any fault of their own, but for reasons that I and others have already stated.

Edited, Nov 1st 2011 10:17pm by Vawn43
#54 Nov 01 2011 at 8:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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je355804 wrote:
Vawn43 wrote:
je355804 wrote:

You're right! How could I not see it!?!?! A company that is worth hundreds of millions of dollars is clearly going to let their franchise game go free-to-play cash-shop! Or even close down the servers perhaps!!!


I've seen fanboys before, but very few as ignorant as you.

IDK exactly how much money SE is worth ("hundreds of millions"), but no matter how big a company is, it still has to turn a profit. Running an MMO, especially one on the scale of FFXIV, is a very risky and expensive endeavor even for a large developer. Don't forget this huge company came extremely close to bankruptcy with another big project failure with the Final Fantasy name attachment.

When talking about the reasons to re-make the failed game, SE said that the company would not be able to keep the current game running for very long. It was (is) losing the company every month, and unless that changes, no, they would not keep the servers running.

I'm happy for you that you are able to have such a bright outlook on things. Your ability to ignore all negative comments about the game even the ones that come directly from SquareEnix's mouth is truly impressive.



So perhaps they'll release the PS3 version (which is 1 year away) and then close down the servers when.... a few months later?

What's the reason for installing entirely new servers for the game? Just to close them down? Or maybe you didn't read anything that was published with the announcement of 2.0? It's like I'm arguing with someone who is saying Osama Bin Laden will never be caught, 4 weeks after they caught him.

And who said anything about ignoring negative comments? The game was a 100% suck fest when it first came out, and still has TONS of flaws. I've made maybe 50 posts or so on this board and I'd be willing to bet half of them or at least a good number have been with the tone of criticism behind them.

I simply don't agree with you that the game has "failed" and that makes me a fan boy? It's like you're name calling just for the sake of picking a fight, or you really hate this game and anyone who may like it. To me failure means that the game is done, and has no chance of returning or being fun. First of all, the game while not perfect is fun in many aspects and rapidly improving. Second of all, the game is ...drum roll please.... STILL BEING RELEASED FOR AN ENTIRELY NEW SYSTEM. If it tanks after the PS3 release and is still a crappy game to play I'd gladly concede that the game is a total failure. However, to sit here and say they're going to close down the servers is just plain out ridiculous.


fail·ure/ˈfālyər/
Noun:
1. Lack of success.
2. An unsuccessful person, enterprise, or thing.

You still don't get it, do you? FFXIV did not achieve success when it launched, making it an unsuccessful enterprise; ergo, it is a failure. This is indisputable, as even the company admits that it was a failure on their part. What we have now, Tanaka's FFXIV, is getting aborted, as it should be, and a new game is being constructed to replace it using bits of the old one. Tanaka's FFXIV, the one we're playing right now, is in its death throes. It will never see a PS3 release. Come November of next year, it will completely cease to be, replaced by a young and spry new game that will from that point forward take on its identity. Think about that for a moment, and come to terms with it, because the game you're playing right this second is not the same one you will be playing next year.
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#55 Nov 01 2011 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Looking at this from the perspective of two separate games, using a new server platform, graphics engine, UI configuration and zone distribution - BUT carrying the same title, characters, NPCs, players (at least to some extent), and geography - I can see how one could call the current game a failure. and the 2.0 release a new game. While SE admits that the current game sucks and the launch was a failure, I do not see them biting the bullet on this, creating a brand new game with totally new concepts, instead they are performing strategic surgery a bit at a time to transform the current game. They are not admitting defeat, they are admitting a mistake, one that has cost them money and one that they will fix.
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#56 Nov 01 2011 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLs0V8T5AA
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#57je355804, Posted: Nov 01 2011 at 10:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You still don't get it do you? Your interpretation of lack of success doesn't necessarily equal my definition? You **** heads really just need something to fight about don't you?
#58 Nov 01 2011 at 10:38 PM Rating: Good
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je355804 wrote:
So perhaps they'll release the PS3 version (which is 1 year away) and then close down the servers when.... a few months later?


They have been quoted as saying that the PS3 version is make or break. SE are not as stupid as they would have you think they are with their recent track record. They do understand that FF as a franchise is extremely important to their survival and in fact, the reason they are even still afloat today.

By allowing FFXIV to fail without first at least trying to make good on their promise(of a year ago) to fix it would result in much more damage to the franchise on the whole than they are willing to sustain. I realize that not all of their players are MMO players, but such a blatant failure on multiple levels has caught their attention for sure.

FYI the PS3 version is over a year out. Beta is scheduled to run through the beginning of 2013. According to their originally intended release date, that's two years behind schedule.

je355804 wrote:
I simply don't agree with you that the game has "failed" and that makes me a fan boy?


I'm not gonna get into name calling, but to this point XIV is a failure. Success to SE is meeting the required subscriptions to meet their goal of turning a profit, which at this point has probably dwindled into just breaking even.

It has been over a year since release and will be another year until this game is considered fit to play by the general standard. 2.0 hasn't released and we've all heard the 'miracle patch' business several times now. Be faithful if you want to. Be hopeful and optimistic, but don't fool yourself as to the current state of the game. Failure is a word quite fitting.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#59 Nov 01 2011 at 11:11 PM Rating: Excellent
je355804 wrote:
I care if there are people to log on and have an awesome game experience with. Which there are ---- thus my conclusion in this game hasn't failed!


If this is success to him, there's not much sense arguing with the guy. Any MMO out there that has a population and provides him with an "awesome" game experience, is a success. By those standards if you like a game, and it has people, it's a smash! Since an awesome experience will vary person to person, I suppose we can't argue that either.

So essentially, just stop arguing with him, this game has not failed to him since his definition of success is slightly skewed.



Edited, Nov 2nd 2011 1:13am by Montsegurnephcreep
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#60 Nov 01 2011 at 11:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dyrwydi wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Dyrwydi wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
I actually think, that ffxiv will be able to come on top come v2.0. Not because of anything complicated more along the line of simplicity. Next year this time from what i know and feel free to correct me, we will have SW:TOR at one year old. TERA, GW2, Diablo 2 at ~6 or so months old, and the WoW expansion out on the market. If we look at each one of those games predecessors, you can see that at most they can keep a full house for ~3 to 4 months. So when v2 comes out the other games will be past the boom at launch. As such if v2 delivers with a boom of it's own and is able to keep people even after the hype is gone i can see xiv becoming very successful.


I think you are correct, the timing should right to draw a decent, if not possibly significant, influx of subscribers.


I think if 2.0 goes well, the game has a good chance of lasting for a couple years, and be relatively successful in terms of income > expenses, even if they never recover their costs. What I think will hold them back, is that FFXIV will always be a grindy party based game. its what it is, and its what the people playing have been telling SE they want. Thats their thing, and its what will make them different. But not many people are into that kind of thing.


From a new player's perspective, you are correct, the game appears to be very grindy, but FFXI and XIV are not designed for the leveling experience, they are designed as foundations to a central story supported by off-shoot stories. This is something that I think SE is working to overcome, because you can't grow a strong community if people keep burning out before they reach the "end-game" content at max level. Grind up to play the real game concept needs further adjustment, yes, but once there a whole new world opens up... or at least it should, once the devs can get back to focusing on that.

No one plays other MMOs because it's fun to level up, they play them because it's fun to put on shiny new gear (which is going to take a party or group, in ANY MMO, a lot of grinding to get) - this being the catch 22 for SE. If the task of leveling is this hard, how much harder will it be to acquire that new shiny piece? This scares off the average "casual" player, of which, my guess anyway, you are not one. This means that you concerns are likely something that SE is taking into consideration... oh how I hope that I am right.


There is a huge gap between what FFXIV says they emphasize and what they actually do better than there competitors. They say they focus on story, and they do in fact spend a larger % of their actual gameplay on it. But its still less story than games today provide. I dont know how each person gauges that aspect of a game, its fairly subjective, but it seems to me that FFXIV wins based on cutscnees (which I don't care about), and loses on actual amount of text, context, interweaving, and impact of story. I don't point this out because I hate FFXIV, I point it out because I want to call it out on things people think its doing right that it isn't. This game will fail because it is not up to current MMO standards, lets stop pretending it only needs to go half way to catch up. This bar needs to be set very high.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2011 1:20am by KujaKoF
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#61 Nov 02 2011 at 6:02 AM Rating: Excellent
I love how people actually think the game will fail(completely). It will always have a playerbase and will be around as long as FFXI(at least). Maybe it won't get as big as some other MMOs, but FFXI didn't either, and I was fine with that. The size of the playerbase will for the most part never impact my enjoyment of the game. I am getting some amusement from this thread, however.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2011 8:04am by StateAlchemist
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#62je355804, Posted: Nov 02 2011 at 8:46 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It's so hilarious that I'm arguing with people who are so narcissistic that they think they have the "correct" definition of what success or failure is.
#63 Nov 02 2011 at 8:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist wrote:
I am getting some amusement from this thread, however.


Says the guy who admits he plays because if the game ever does get good he doesn't want to feel like he got left behind... amusing indeed.

je355804 wrote:
Your idea of failure doesn't necessarily reflect mine or anyone else's for that matter.


My idea of failure matches up with SE's which they have admitted to. I won't say when the servers will shutdown though because SE is completely willing to follow XIV into oblivion if that is where it ends up.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2011 10:59am by FilthMcNasty
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#64 Nov 02 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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You're just fumbling your remarks all over the place.
Some people stated they thought the game was a failure (including myself) then you post some negative remarks about us always being this and that and how were going to vehemently deny that fact and yet here you are boasting about opinions, like you have any idea what the definition of opinion is. If you did have any idea what an opinion was, you would have stopped arguing for the sake of getting the last word since that's basically what you're doing.

We understand you enjoy this game. Good for you. This thread is about peoples thoughts on what they think was the reason it failed. Since you don't think it failed, you really don't have anything constructive to post on this specific thread. One would think you would be spending your time enjoying the game instead of derailing a thread.
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#65 Nov 02 2011 at 9:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quanta wrote:


fail·ure/ˈfālyər/
Noun:
1. Lack of success.
2. An unsuccessful person, enterprise, or thing.

You still don't get it, do you? FFXIV did not achieve success when it launched, making it an unsuccessful enterprise; ergo, it is a failure.


Not only did it fail at launch, but to this day it has yet to succeed. I think the game in its current state is far from bad, but very few people play it, so it is still failing. If you don't believe me, just look at the number of people logged in on your server - oh wait that's right, SE removed that feature as soon the very small world was quickly becoming barren of players. Hopefully, some day it can look back and say while the initial couple years were a failure, it rebounded and is now a successful profit-generating MMO. They have a long way to go before that ever happens, if it ever happens.

I like how JE keeps claiming that the servers couldn't possibly be shut down even after SE said that if they didn't completely remake the game that greatly damaged the Final Fantasy brand, they could not possibly keep it running years from now. They must just say things like that for the PR right?

Edited, Nov 2nd 2011 11:16am by Vawn43
#66 Nov 02 2011 at 9:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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14th installment of the ORIGINAL Final Fantasy franchise.
They are just saving face at this time. They should have renamed this game and reserve the FF14 name for something else.
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#67je355804, Posted: Nov 02 2011 at 9:40 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) LOL at all the losers who have nothing better to do than go on a video game forum for a game they hate, or think has no chance of ever achieving "success" or my favorite of all... think the servers are shutting down.
#68je355804, Posted: Nov 02 2011 at 9:51 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You think these clowns can even grasp concepts such as this?
#69 Nov 02 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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je355804 wrote:
LOL at all the losers who have nothing better to do than go on a video game forum for a game they hate, or think has no chance of ever achieving "success" or my favorite of all... think the servers are shutting down.


You have very selective listening skills, don't you?

I haven't heard any of us say we hate the game. In fact most of us, myself included, say we think the game is pretty good and are having fun playing it. We've stated this numerous times throughout this thread. Most of us never said the game doesn't have a chance to succeed either. Obviously, SE wouldn't be tearing down the original game and rebuilding it if they didn't think they had a chance to succeed. But, to this point in time the game HAS failed financially and has not been well received my the majority of its original target audience. These are just facts (you should look up that word, "facts", by the way, I don't think you quite understand it yet).

Maybe the game will succeed. If it does, it will have made a comeback that no other MMO has ever pulled off. But, if 2.0 doesn't bring back a lot more people than what is currently playing, the game cannot continue to go on. You can hold your hands to your ears and scream "I can't hear you, game is doing great. LA LA LA!", all you want, but it won't make any difference.
#70 Nov 02 2011 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
losers

Quote:
[post counts]

Quote:
morons

Quote:
nerds

Don't blow your troll load all at once, now. I thought you were in this for the long haul.

Edit: FFXIV related.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2011 11:56am by Almalexia
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#71 Nov 02 2011 at 10:03 AM Rating: Default
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Vawn43 wrote:
je355804 wrote:
LOL at all the losers who have nothing better to do than go on a video game forum for a game they hate, or think has no chance of ever achieving "success" or my favorite of all... think the servers are shutting down.


You have very selective listening skills, don't you?

I haven't heard any of us say we hate the game. In fact most of us, myself included, say we think the game is pretty good and are having fun playing it. We've stated this numerous times throughout this thread. Most of us never said the game doesn't have a chance to succeed either. Obviously, SE wouldn't be tearing down the original game and rebuilding it if they didn't think they had a chance to succeed. But, to this point in time the game HAS failed financially and has not been well received my the majority of its original target audience. These are just facts (you should look up that word, "facts", by the way, I don't think you quite understand it yet).

Maybe the game will succeed. If it does, it will have made a comeback that no other MMO has ever pulled off. But, if 2.0 doesn't bring back a lot more people than what is currently playing, the game cannot continue to go on. You can hold your hands to your ears and scream "I can't hear you, game is doing great. LA LA LA!", all you want, but it won't make any difference.



And I've said numerous times... I agree with that. And I agree the game issues, I just don't see it as the failure that you do.

I never said the game is doing great. It's not. There has however clearly been a surge in the player numbers since the new patches and it seems like there are constantly improvements being made.

If they would have left the game in it's original form I would have considered that a failure. To me it's only a failure if you ***** up and then don't work to fix it.

It should be noted that I've also never said the game is a success. In my opinion it lies somewhere in between.
#72 Nov 02 2011 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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Trolling? I think the guy is autistic. A troll would have made me laugh.
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#73je355804, Posted: Nov 02 2011 at 10:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You display your continued ignorance by having no clue what autism is.
#74 Nov 02 2011 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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je355804 wrote:

If they would have left the game in it's original form I would have considered that a failure. To me it's only a failure if you ***** up and then don't work to fix it.


Well, actually it is only a failure if enough people don't play it.

je355804 wrote:
lambon wrote:
Trolling? I think the guy is autistic. A troll would have made me laugh.


You display your continued ignorance by having no clue what autism is.


You're right there. Autistic people are usually intelligent in their own way.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2011 12:22pm by Vawn43
#75je355804, Posted: Nov 02 2011 at 10:22 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yep.
#76 Nov 02 2011 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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je355804 wrote:
Vawn43 wrote:
je355804 wrote:

If they would have left the game in it's original form I would have considered that a failure. To me it's only a failure if you ***** up and then don't work to fix it.


Well, actually it is only a failure if enough people don't play it.



Yep.


OMG Did I get through?? Now, next step. Do you think there are enough people playing?
#77 Nov 02 2011 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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je355804 wrote:
The number of posts you 3 morons have spent wasting other peoples lives. You guys must be really big nerds to have time to sit around all day and bash a video game... Taking down anyone in your path who doesn't agree with your opinions.


Probably a third of my posts are in threads about assisting people with computer builds. The rest are spent trying to assist people with reading comprehension. When the president of a company says that their product is an embarrassment, how do you not qualify this as a failure? Whether or not it is a failure to you is a matter of opinion, which I won't argue, but the fact remains that most reasonable people would see this for what it really is and not argue semantics.

Protip: Adults posting in a forum about a game with elvaan, hairy dudes with tails and cat people all qualify as nerds.

je355804 wrote:
Some people make up their mind about something and then decide anyone who doesn't agree absolutely with their thoughts is 100% wrong.


Says the guy who calls people morons and nerds because they have a different opinion than he does...


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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#78je355804, Posted: Nov 02 2011 at 10:29 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wow man. I can't believe I'm even continuing to have a conversation with someone who is acting so condescending.
#79je355804, Posted: Nov 02 2011 at 10:40 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Hopefully you'll pardon my name-calling. Shouldn't have taken it to that level.
#80 Nov 02 2011 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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je355804 wrote:
Vawn43 wrote:
je355804 wrote:
LOL at all the losers who have nothing better to do than go on a video game forum for a game they hate, or think has no chance of ever achieving "success" or my favorite of all... think the servers are shutting down.


You have very selective listening skills, don't you?

I haven't heard any of us say we hate the game. In fact most of us, myself included, say we think the game is pretty good and are having fun playing it. We've stated this numerous times throughout this thread. Most of us never said the game doesn't have a chance to succeed either. Obviously, SE wouldn't be tearing down the original game and rebuilding it if they didn't think they had a chance to succeed. But, to this point in time the game HAS failed financially and has not been well received my the majority of its original target audience. These are just facts (you should look up that word, "facts", by the way, I don't think you quite understand it yet).

Maybe the game will succeed. If it does, it will have made a comeback that no other MMO has ever pulled off. But, if 2.0 doesn't bring back a lot more people than what is currently playing, the game cannot continue to go on. You can hold your hands to your ears and scream "I can't hear you, game is doing great. LA LA LA!", all you want, but it won't make any difference.



And I've said numerous times... I agree with that. And I agree the game issues, I just don't see it as the failure that you do.

I never said the game is doing great. It's not. There has however clearly been a surge in the player numbers since the new patches and it seems like there are constantly improvements being made.

If they would have left the game in it's original form I would have considered that a failure. To me it's only a failure if you ***** up and then don't work to fix it.

It should be noted that I've also never said the game is a success. In my opinion it lies somewhere in between.


Even though SE is endeavouring to correct their mistakes, it doesn't change the fact that they failed in their initial attempt, but that's okay. Failure is a good thing, because it helps to reveal mistakes so that they can be corrected and increase the chances of success. Don't try and downplay their ****-up and spin it as something it isn't, because the only thing that will do is encourage them to make the same mistakes again.
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Don't play that game anymore. :P
#81je355804, Posted: Nov 02 2011 at 11:09 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I've never down played it. I've said numerous times in this thread alone, their initial product was NOT quality and was indeed a failure.
#82 Nov 02 2011 at 11:51 AM Rating: Default
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You guys still going at it? Only time can tell to what end this game will go to. I know there is nothing to talk about till 7am GMT Nov 3rd, but still this bickering and insulting is not doing anyone any favor's. Just agree to disagree over something so far out of your hands it's literally in japan. Smiley: grin

Edited, Nov 2nd 2011 1:52pm by TwiddleDee
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#83 Nov 02 2011 at 11:53 AM Rating: Default
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The original thread topic is on the "Prime Reason" for failure - The reasons for why the game has failed up until 1.19 are well established. We are now looking to the future on what, if anything, would cause the game to ultimately fail, as in never achieve success. The premise that community input will cause the eventual downfall of XIV is flawed because, as we established earlier, SE has been very careful to weed out the craptastic suggestions of those who have no concept of what makes a game successful. The negativity of those who want to blow the fail-horn is annoying, but in general harmless and should be disregarded.

Defining success as simply a number of players means that WoW was the ultimate success, but as players we know better. WoW is in a downward spiral and their once heralded success is waning, does this mean that WoW is now a failure or simply that it is on the road to failure? FFXIV can be looked at in the reverse, initial success was not and has not been achieved and only when SE stops making improvements can it really be considered a failure. Success is a journey, just as failure is. Failure just has a more defined state of being.

As to what can / would cause FFXIV to ultimately fail, I believe that over simplifying the leveling experience and cheapening the experience of end-game content would generate a "success bubble" which once burst would cause a mass exodus of the once dedicated player-base. This would lead to a permanent F2P (at least for the first 20 levels or so) / Game Store design.
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#84 Nov 02 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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Dyrwydi wrote:
SE has been very careful to weed out the craptastic suggestions of those who have no concept of what makes a game successful


I understand where you are trying to go with this. The problem is that given the way this game launched and how it plays currently, SE really doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to 'concept of what makes a game successful' =/
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#85 Nov 02 2011 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
StateAlchemist wrote:
I love how people actually think the game will fail(completely).


I don't think many people think the game will fail completely, most just think the game has thus far failed to meet expectations. Like I said earlier, we really have to wait and see for 2.0 to be up and running on pc AND ps3 to see what happens. The game is obviously getting better, I left from December until recently to pick the game up and it's been a huge improvement. If they keep this up and really market this properly, it could definitely hit a profitable level at some point.

I say we come back in 2014, hopefully a year after 2.0 has been released and banter some more!
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#86 Nov 02 2011 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Dyrwydi wrote:
SE has been very careful to weed out the craptastic suggestions of those who have no concept of what makes a game successful


I understand where you are trying to go with this. The problem is that given the way this game launched and how it plays currently, SE really doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to 'concept of what makes a game successful' =/


The indication that they do came with the weeding out of Tanaka and placing of Yoshi over the project. Relating this to my personal experience, I have been in a situation where I was hired to replace a "craptastic" network administrator and it took me well over two years to undo the damage of my predecessor. During this time was the IT department a failure? No, but we are not a success either.
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#87 Nov 02 2011 at 1:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Games are made to either make money, or at least receive some form of claim or praise that would boost the companies reputation. FFXIV was an attempt to do both, and achieved neither, that is a failure.
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#88 Nov 02 2011 at 1:15 PM Rating: Default
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KujaKoF wrote:
Games are made to either make money, or at least receive some form of claim or praise that would boost the companies reputation. FFXIV was an attempt to do both, and achieved neither, that is a failure.


You are taking the stance that the because the game has not achieved success it is therefore a failure - while this line of discussion continues to be off-topic to the thread, I would like to once again attempt to explain the problem with this reasoning. When FaceBook started out it was a shoddy answer to MySpace. It had lame APIs, poor communication platform and a limited following from the collage inmate... I mean student/faculty community. As a service it was second rate and only worth using because you wanted to keep tabs on your professor or school functions. Fast forward a few years and who even uses MySpace anymore? To say that FaceBook was a failure until it achieved success is to say that you cannot look beyond the moment wherein you stand.

I am not saying that FFXIV will achieve such a broad following, but scale it down a bit and you can see the potential that game will develop a following broader than the dedicated few who currently play, thereby achieving success.

Success is a journey, not a destination - Failure is a destination achieved by ending the journey.

edit: adding that last line as my sig.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2011 3:17pm by Dyrwydi
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#89je355804, Posted: Nov 02 2011 at 1:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Splitting is a defense mechanism that defines things as either wholly divine and good, or completely bad and evil. I feel like many people are taking that approach to this game. It seems as though people don't get the concept that something can be on a road of progression... somewhere in between success and failure.
#90 Nov 02 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
You're absolutely right though. The naysayers while annoying are indeed irrelevant. In the vast majority they aren't the ones playing the game. It comes down to the fact that you have to make those who ARE playing happy, not the ones who no matter what changes are made will not be satisfied.


How extremely wrong this is. It would be in SE's best interest to satisfy people that see absolutely no redeeming qualities in this game. Unless SE is planning to profit off of 20-50 thousand people, It would be beyond detrimental to consider us naysayers, irrelevant.
If anything, the irrelevant people are guys such as yourself, whom are so easily satisfied with this failure of a product.

On to important matters.
How can you guys not see this as a failure? They are literally scrapping everything that the old development team created and are giving us a completely revised product. Completely different gameplay mechanics, maps are being redesigned, the graphics engine changed...they probably moved people from other projects such as FFv13 to secretly work on this game and attempt to finish it within 2 years while showing us things they are planning to add to the new FF14...

I'm pushing it but in all honesty, I would not be surprised if they were allocating their resources on this. Simply admit to this fact. The game is a commercial failure and an embarrassment to Square-Enix. I still want it to succeed though. I'm going to support them and have an active account. I'm still going to log every now and then to see how the game feels and you bet I will continue coming to these forums and stating my opinion on a thread that asks for it.
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#91je355804, Posted: Nov 02 2011 at 3:02 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yet again, how dare anyone take opposition to your perspective.
#92 Nov 02 2011 at 3:05 PM Rating: Default
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lambon wrote:
Quote:
You're absolutely right though. The naysayers while annoying are indeed irrelevant. In the vast majority they aren't the ones playing the game. It comes down to the fact that you have to make those who ARE playing happy, not the ones who no matter what changes are made will not be satisfied.


How extremely wrong this is. It would be in SE's best interest to satisfy people that see absolutely no redeeming qualities in this game. Unless SE is planning to profit off of 20-50 thousand people, It would be beyond detrimental to consider us naysayers, irrelevant.
If anything, the irrelevant people are guys such as yourself, whom are so easily satisfied with this failure of a product.

On to important matters.
How can you guys not see this as a failure? They are literally scrapping everything that the old development team created and are giving us a completely revised product. Completely different gameplay mechanics, maps are being redesigned, the graphics engine changed...they probably moved people from other projects such as FFv13 to secretly work on this game and attempt to finish it within 2 years while showing us things they are planning to add to the new FF14...

I'm pushing it but in all honesty, I would not be surprised if they were allocating their resources on this. Simply admit to this fact. The game is a commercial failure and an embarrassment to Square-Enix. I still want it to succeed though. I'm going to support them and have an active account. I'm still going to log every now and then to see how the game feels and you bet I will continue coming to these forums and stating my opinion on a thread that asks for it.


There is a difference - Naysayers who naysay for the sake of naysaying and those who speak up because they want something fixed. Most of the replies on this topic attempt to establish that this is a failed game which has no hope. I wish to point out that there are many failings that MUST be fixed to achieve success.

In your words: On to important matters.
No one is denying that the launch (a specific "destination" of sorts, a definable moment) was a failure. Since that time there were several failing - and flailing - attempts to fix the initial failings. Then they set the game on a new path, a path to fundamentally alter the game. From the time that this new path was established onward, the game ceased to be a failure and instead became a work in progress.

This entire back-and-forth really boils down to simply semantics. We all agree on the current state of the game, we all see major improvements coming, and we all (okay may be overshooting this one a bit) want to see the game ultimately succeed. The only real debate here is whether or not the term "failure" applies, which is in and of itself a tad idiotic.

In my own words (trying to return to the thread topic once more): Does anyone have any concerns about the current development path which you think will have a major impact on the possibility of success, in a negative way?

edit: spell check can only fix that which is not spelled correctly...

Edited, Nov 2nd 2011 5:06pm by Dyrwydi
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#93 Nov 02 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Does anyone have any concerns about the current development path which you think will have a major impact on the possibility of success, in a negative way?


It is hard to say if their current path with make them successful. What does surprise me is logic failure I see people making regarding the upcoming changes, and that is if they change what was bad, it will end up being good. They could be replacing bad ideas with other bad ideas. There seems to be this idea of assumed success around these boards and I really wonder why that is outside of fanboyism or blind optimism. I really haven't seen anything announced that would make the game worse, but I really haven't heard anything that will make the game stand out either. So I'd ask a different question, what is SE actively doing that would imply this relaunch will be a success?
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#94 Nov 02 2011 at 3:49 PM Rating: Default
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KujaKoF wrote:
Quote:
Does anyone have any concerns about the current development path which you think will have a major impact on the possibility of success, in a negative way?


It is hard to say if their current path with make them successful. What does surprise me is logic failure I see people making regarding the upcoming changes, and that is if they change what was bad, it will end up being good. They could be replacing bad ideas with other bad ideas. There seems to be this idea of assumed success around these boards and I really wonder why that is outside of fanboyism or blind optimism. I really haven't seen anything announced that would make the game worse, but I really haven't heard anything that will make the game stand out either. So I'd ask a different question, what is SE actively doing that would imply this relaunch will be a success?


Excellent question - one sec let me pull up the lodestone and copy down a list...

Really and seriously, are we pretending that a list of changes have not already been revealed? Increasing server platform capacity, changing to a new graphics engine, simplifying UI, etc., etc., etc. This is what I referred to above as naysaying for the sake of naysaying. If you have concerns about the plans they laid out, say so. If you don't think anything they listed or have discussed in the past couple of weeks will set the game on a path to success, then say so.

In case you missed the list, here are a few to munch on:
Quest system redesign
Mail system
Personal Companies
Graphics Engine reconstruction
3rd Party App Development APIs
Instanced Raids
UI Redesign
The list goes on and on.
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#95 Nov 02 2011 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

It is hard to say if their current path with make them successful. What does surprise me is logic failure I see people making regarding the upcoming changes, and that is if they change what was bad, it will end up being good. They could be replacing bad ideas with other bad ideas. There seems to be this idea of assumed success around these boards and I really wonder why that is outside of fanboyism or blind optimism. I really haven't seen anything announced that would make the game worse, but I really haven't heard anything that will make the game stand out either. So I'd ask a different question, what is SE actively doing that would imply this relaunch will be a success?


You already know my stance but I believe that a saving grace for this game will lie on the new maps. To me personally, the world was such a barren disaster that it completely blocked peoples ability to immerse themselves in the game. When all you see is copy pasta terrain, you feel like you're running on a thread mill. Added with the fact that the "imminent threat"...is still pending, there was absolutely nothing to make me say "Holy **** I need to get strong so I can help this world out."

If they were planning to let us develop and decorate the land, I would have not minded the map at all.

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#96je355804, Posted: Nov 02 2011 at 3:55 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The primary "failure" (you really love that word, or is that just the theme of the week?) is that anyone who presents a point of optimism is immediately labeled a fanboy.
#97je355804, Posted: Nov 02 2011 at 4:00 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This is absolutely true. In FFXI when you walked around the world, it was fun and interesting (and terrifying.) Remember the first time you had to make it to Jeuno by foot? No easy task!
#98 Nov 02 2011 at 4:02 PM Rating: Default
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je355804 wrote:
lambon wrote:
[quote]snipped for space



This is absolutely true. In FFXI when you walked around the world, it was fun and interesting (and terrifying.) Remember the first time you had to make it to Jeuno by foot? No easy task!

The terrain was honestly what gave FFXI a lot of it's lore. It was exciting to go from place to place and encounter new areas. XIV has totally bombed in this department, although the new maps certainly show promise. I think the new team is taking the things that people loved most about XI and trying to incorporate them into the XIV experience. At the same time, eliminating the facets of the game that people hated.

It will be interesting to see how this is all incorporated. On a related note, do you know if the plan for the new maps is to incorporate them into the PC version prior to the PS3 version? Or will it be a simultaneous launch?


A major reason to play right now is that the "new maps" will not be suddenly appearing, there will be in-world events (one time things that only those currently playing can participate in) where the current maps will be altered as a part of introducing the new maps.
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#99 Nov 02 2011 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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We will see these updates as time passes. They are going to need to keep us paying for this game somehow.
Those are of course, just my speculations. I have no idea what SE plans to do but it would definitely be in their best interest.
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#100 Nov 02 2011 at 4:25 PM Rating: Default
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lambon wrote:
We will see these updates as time passes. They are going to need to keep us paying for this game somehow.
Those are of course, just my speculations. I have no idea what SE plans to do but it would definitely be in their best interest.


I suppose these new jobs they'll be releasing better be tons of fun is their hope.

#101 Nov 02 2011 at 5:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dyrwydi wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Quote:
Does anyone have any concerns about the current development path which you think will have a major impact on the possibility of success, in a negative way?


It is hard to say if their current path with make them successful. What does surprise me is logic failure I see people making regarding the upcoming changes, and that is if they change what was bad, it will end up being good. They could be replacing bad ideas with other bad ideas. There seems to be this idea of assumed success around these boards and I really wonder why that is outside of fanboyism or blind optimism. I really haven't seen anything announced that would make the game worse, but I really haven't heard anything that will make the game stand out either. So I'd ask a different question, what is SE actively doing that would imply this relaunch will be a success?


Excellent question - one sec let me pull up the lodestone and copy down a list...

Really and seriously, are we pretending that a list of changes have not already been revealed? Increasing server platform capacity, changing to a new graphics engine, simplifying UI, etc., etc., etc. This is what I referred to above as naysaying for the sake of naysaying. If you have concerns about the plans they laid out, say so. If you don't think anything they listed or have discussed in the past couple of weeks will set the game on a path to success, then say so.

In case you missed the list, here are a few to munch on:
Quest system redesign
Mail system
Personal Companies
Graphics Engine reconstruction
3rd Party App Development APIs
Instanced Raids
UI Redesign
The list goes on and on.


That is just a list of things that the game will have. We don't know that they'll be good. WOW, DCUonline, EVE, and every other MMO out there has a quest system, mail, instanced raids, companies/guilds/leagues or whatever you want to call them, but I bet you don't like every single one of them? features are not everything, and they're not all equal.
You say naysaying for the sake of naysaying, I see people praising for the sake of praising.

What surprises me on these boards is how soon people forget. pre-release info for the game blew peoples minds they were so excited, and it turned out to be awful, but people blamed tanaka. Then Yoshi came in and people were acting like the second coming, the game would be fixed and that never really happened. But that was because he was still working with tanaka's crap. so now yoshi gets to "start from scratch" (while somehow preserving current classes, characters etc) and produce his own game! What'll the excuse be then? All I'm saying is this is nothing different than we've seen from SE before. I'm not assuming that "graphics engine reconstruction" and "UI redesign" is going to make the game fun, bring in new players, or more importantly make me want to play it. I'm going to need to see a great game before I start spouting off how great a game it is.
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