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Class Reforms & Action Lists (11/18/2011)Follow

#1 Nov 18 2011 at 7:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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#2 Nov 18 2011 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
Good list, I like the inclusion of the combo details for each class. To bad they didn't include ability / magic names. Leaves me wondering what happens to the Ancient Magics though.
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#3 Nov 18 2011 at 7:56 AM Rating: Good
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Apparently I'm late to the party but I didn't realize that Archer > Bard. Dunno how I feel about that. I've enjoyed playing Archer in FFXIV but I don't have too much interest in playing BRD if thats the next step?

Did they mention if DRG would ever get a Wyvern or not?

Still would've liked to see RDM...

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#4 Nov 18 2011 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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dayspringrdm wrote:
Apparently I'm late to the party but I didn't realize that Archer > Bard. Dunno how I feel about that. I've enjoyed playing Archer in FFXIV but I don't have too much interest in playing BRD if thats the next step?

Did they mention if DRG would ever get a Wyvern or not?

Still would've liked to see RDM...



Yoshi asked "Do you really want that?" He also mentioned they would make drg a weaker job if it was going to have a pet. What they "might look" at is having the wyvern come out while your jumping, but the main focus was to give the dragoon dragon abilities. As far as I know the dragoons in FF only had a pet wyvern in XI.

So I hope they don't add it personally. At the same time I hope you get your wish :)

As far as this class list looks, hot dam! It looks like everyone will have to relearn their jobs, which is going to be truly fun (I actually mean it) I will feel like I'm playing the job and not a cookie. :)
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#5 Nov 18 2011 at 9:07 AM Rating: Decent
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dayspringrdm wrote:
Did they mention if DRG would ever get a Wyvern or not?


They did, and the verdict was either split the DGR power between the job and pet or just have DRG stand alone. Way i see it the no pet decision was the right one. I think few would be happy if DRG got x% weaker to facilitate a pet.
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#6 Nov 18 2011 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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#7 Nov 18 2011 at 9:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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dayspringrdm wrote:
Apparently I'm late to the party but I didn't realize that Archer > Bard. Dunno how I feel about that. I've enjoyed playing Archer in FFXIV but I don't have too much interest in playing BRD if thats the next step?


Came here to ask the exact same thing. Are these listed in their paired Class -> Job setting, or is this just simply an overall list? I understand that Archer and Bard is not an unusual combination for RPGs, but for FFXIV Archer and Bard being together just seems a bit odd given the description of roles for each - it does very little to tie them together:

"Archers are gifted at concealing themselves to avoid detection and deftly attacking their enemies at range. They are capable of generating large amounts of damage in brief spans of time, but are less effective the longer a battle drags on. The bard is a versatile job that performs songs to bolster various attributes of his companions. Coupled with his ability in battle, this enables the bard to carry his own weight in either an offensive or defensive capacity."

Both descriptions sound fantastic and roles I would love to play, Bard being my preferred playstyle in FFXI, but I would have never pictured them together in this game.

Edited, Nov 18th 2011 10:20am by Whales
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#8 Nov 18 2011 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
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time to relearn the game ladies and gents. get rdy this is gonna rock
#9 Nov 18 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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There has been a lot of complaining already on the official forums about the PGL abilities, but for myself, this is making me sorely tempted to betray my pole-arm and pick up some brass knuckles. The MP management mechanics of PGL sound incredibly appealing to me. On the other hand, LNC seems to have lost a lot of it's flare. A lot of people will still love LNC for what it seems to be, a high damage dealing job. But seeing as it has lost a lot of it's original tactical nature (piercing WSs dealing more damage on multi-hits, highly situational enhancements and enfeeblements, etc.) it has lost some of it's appeal to me. Hmmm choices choices.
#10 Nov 18 2011 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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I am ready for some stability with this game...
#11 Nov 18 2011 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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i mean maybe its just me but it doesnt seem like each class has a whole lot to work with.
#12 Nov 18 2011 at 9:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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#13 Nov 18 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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After re-re-rereading the list, it's actually quite impressive. If you are well versed with your class's you can easily see that all the changes are a one-up. Personally i cant wait for the changes, thing am wondering is are we getting the following in addition to our skills now, or are the skills on that lists replacing what we currently have?!
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#14 Nov 18 2011 at 9:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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TwiddleDee wrote:
After re-re-rereading the list, it's actually quite impressive. If you are well versed with your class's you can easily see that all the changes are a one-up. Personally i cant wait for the changes, thing am wondering is are we getting the following in addition to our skills now, or are the skills on that lists replacing what we currently have?!

Replacements. You've probably already seen this, but it is pretty explicit that the abilities are being completely reworked and each class will only have 15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits.
#15 Nov 18 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Default
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Hulan wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
After re-re-rereading the list, it's actually quite impressive. If you are well versed with your class's you can easily see that all the changes are a one-up. Personally i cant wait for the changes, thing am wondering is are we getting the following in addition to our skills now, or are the skills on that lists replacing what we currently have?!

Replacements. You've probably already seen this, but it is pretty explicit that the abilities are being completely reworked and each class will only have 15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits.


You sure?! The list of skills as impressive as it is does not cover 1-50. As far as i know the "15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits" is what we can have equipped at a given time. I just can't picture the old skills getting removed. If you overlay the current skill list with the one shown there are simply too many gaps.
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#16 Nov 18 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hulan wrote:
There has been a lot of complaining already on the official forums about the PGL abilities, but for myself, this is making me sorely tempted to betray my pole-arm and pick up some brass knuckles. The MP management mechanics of PGL sound incredibly appealing to me. On the other hand, LNC seems to have lost a lot of it's flare. A lot of people will still love LNC for what it seems to be, a high damage dealing job. But seeing as it has lost a lot of it's original tactical nature (piercing WSs dealing more damage on multi-hits, highly situational enhancements and enfeeblements, etc.) it has lost some of it's appeal to me. Hmmm choices choices.


I'm going to reserve any real judgement until I see the changes for myself, but based on the descriptions for the pgl/mnk abilities, I can definitely see why people would be complaining. MP management/replenishment is not an easy thing for melees to deal with especially in pro-longed NM fights.
#17 Nov 18 2011 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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I'm looking forward to this, I'm actually quite optimistic for the changes.
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#18 Nov 18 2011 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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Sounds great..... Be patiently waiting for Nin and Sam woot.
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#19 Nov 18 2011 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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TwiddleDee wrote:
You sure?! The list of skills as impressive as it is does not cover 1-50. As far as i know the "15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits" is what we can have equipped at a given time. I just can't picture the old skills getting removed. If you overlay the current skill list with the one shown there are simply too many gaps.
As sure as I can be. Granted, that is still not 100% sure, but I'd say it's a good bet.

lightacadi wrote:
I'm going to reserve any real judgement until I see the changes for myself, but based on the descriptions for the pgl/mnk abilities, I can definitely see why people would be complaining. MP management/replenishment is not an easy thing for melees to deal with especially in pro-longed NM fights.

Perhaps it's just my old BLM blood waking up. I wanted a change of pace so I switched to LNC when I came over to FFXIV, but I guess I just can't escape the seductive call of complicated MP mechanics.
#20 Nov 18 2011 at 10:32 AM Rating: Default
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Hulan wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
After re-re-rereading the list, it's actually quite impressive. If you are well versed with your class's you can easily see that all the changes are a one-up. Personally i cant wait for the changes, thing am wondering is are we getting the following in addition to our skills now, or are the skills on that lists replacing what we currently have?!

Replacements. You've probably already seen this, but it is pretty explicit that the abilities are being completely reworked and each class will only have 15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits.


You sure?! The list of skills as impressive as it is does not cover 1-50. As far as i know the "15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits" is what we can have equipped at a given time. I just can't picture the old skills getting removed. If you overlay the current skill list with the one shown there are simply too many gaps.


You cant remove the original 15. We only have 30 spots. :) So 15 core + 10 other class abilities + 5 job abilties. We can move them around (all 30) but can't remove the core 15. So this list is all we get :)
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#21 Nov 18 2011 at 10:43 AM Rating: Default
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Hulan wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
You sure?! The list of skills as impressive as it is does not cover 1-50. As far as i know the "15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits" is what we can have equipped at a given time. I just can't picture the old skills getting removed. If you overlay the current skill list with the one shown there are simply too many gaps.
As sure as I can be. Granted, that is still not 100% sure, but I'd say it's a good bet.



Elionara wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
Hulan wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
After re-re-rereading the list, it's actually quite impressive. If you are well versed with your class's you can easily see that all the changes are a one-up. Personally i cant wait for the changes, thing am wondering is are we getting the following in addition to our skills now, or are the skills on that lists replacing what we currently have?!

Replacements. You've probably already seen this, but it is pretty explicit that the abilities are being completely reworked and each class will only have 15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits.


You sure?! The list of skills as impressive as it is does not cover 1-50. As far as i know the "15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits" is what we can have equipped at a given time. I just can't picture the old skills getting removed. If you overlay the current skill list with the one shown there are simply too many gaps.


You cant remove the original 15. We only have 30 spots. :) So 15 core + 10 other class abilities + 5 job abilties. We can move them around (all 30) but can't remove the core 15. So this list is all we get :)


My apologies i worded my question wrong.. i was wondering if all these will get ousted?
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#22 Nov 18 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Hulan wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
You sure?! The list of skills as impressive as it is does not cover 1-50. As far as i know the "15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits" is what we can have equipped at a given time. I just can't picture the old skills getting removed. If you overlay the current skill list with the one shown there are simply too many gaps.
As sure as I can be. Granted, that is still not 100% sure, but I'd say it's a good bet.



Elionara wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
Hulan wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
After re-re-rereading the list, it's actually quite impressive. If you are well versed with your class's you can easily see that all the changes are a one-up. Personally i cant wait for the changes, thing am wondering is are we getting the following in addition to our skills now, or are the skills on that lists replacing what we currently have?!

Replacements. You've probably already seen this, but it is pretty explicit that the abilities are being completely reworked and each class will only have 15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits.


You sure?! The list of skills as impressive as it is does not cover 1-50. As far as i know the "15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits" is what we can have equipped at a given time. I just can't picture the old skills getting removed. If you overlay the current skill list with the one shown there are simply too many gaps.


You cant remove the original 15. We only have 30 spots. :) So 15 core + 10 other class abilities + 5 job abilties. We can move them around (all 30) but can't remove the core 15. So this list is all we get :)


My apologies i worded my question wrong.. i was wondering if all these will get ousted?

Pretty much once this update rolls around that list will be completley useless for the war/magic disciplines. What was once 200+ abilities will be condensed down to 105 class abilities and 77 traits. Then with 1.21 rolling around it'll most likely add 35 more abilities to the list of class abilities.
#23 Nov 18 2011 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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Yes, many current abilities are being ousted. The list they just posted is all the abilities each class/job is planned to have. This is only up to level 50, though, so we'll have to see where they go after they raise the level cap.

But yes,lots of stuff is being weeded out in favor of more concentrated and unique classes, and I see it as a huge plus. I can agree that mages seem to be getting the short end of the stick as far as their ******* goes (where are the Water spells?) but I'm positive it will all turn out just fine.
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#24 Nov 18 2011 at 2:10 PM Rating: Default
Airget wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
Hulan wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
You sure?! The list of skills as impressive as it is does not cover 1-50. As far as i know the "15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits" is what we can have equipped at a given time. I just can't picture the old skills getting removed. If you overlay the current skill list with the one shown there are simply too many gaps.
As sure as I can be. Granted, that is still not 100% sure, but I'd say it's a good bet.



Elionara wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
Hulan wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
After re-re-rereading the list, it's actually quite impressive. If you are well versed with your class's you can easily see that all the changes are a one-up. Personally i cant wait for the changes, thing am wondering is are we getting the following in addition to our skills now, or are the skills on that lists replacing what we currently have?!

Replacements. You've probably already seen this, but it is pretty explicit that the abilities are being completely reworked and each class will only have 15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits.


You sure?! The list of skills as impressive as it is does not cover 1-50. As far as i know the "15 abilities, 5 more from jobs, and 10 traits" is what we can have equipped at a given time. I just can't picture the old skills getting removed. If you overlay the current skill list with the one shown there are simply too many gaps.


You cant remove the original 15. We only have 30 spots. :) So 15 core + 10 other class abilities + 5 job abilties. We can move them around (all 30) but can't remove the core 15. So this list is all we get :)


My apologies i worded my question wrong.. i was wondering if all these will get ousted?

Pretty much once this update rolls around that list will be completley useless for the war/magic disciplines. What was once 200+ abilities will be condensed down to 105 class abilities and 77 traits. Then with 1.21 rolling around it'll most likely add 35 more abilities to the list of class abilities.


I think we're missing something in that list - 15 "in-class" abilities + 10 traits + 5 "Job" abilities if equipped OR 10 "out-of-class" abilities if not "Job" equipped. Right?
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#25 Nov 18 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Default
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Professor Dyrwydi wrote:

Pretty much once this update rolls around that list will be completley useless for the war/magic disciplines. What was once 200+ abilities will be condensed down to 105 class abilities and 77 traits. Then with 1.21 rolling around it'll most likely add 35 more abilities to the list of class abilities.


I think we're missing something in that list - 15 "in-class" abilities + 10 traits + 5 "Job" abilities if equipped OR 10 "out-of-class" abilities if not "Job" equipped. Right?[/quote]

From my understanding we get as of 1.20:
15 in-class abilities that can't be removed
11 traits that can't be used on other jobs
10 spots for out-of-class abilities that aren't (exclusive to that class/job)

As of 1.21
5 Job abilities that are quested.

So as of 1.20 we have 5 blank spots in our action bar (with full utilization), 1.21 it's full.

As of 2.0 it will be completely restructured as per the in-game screenshot they showed and we will have ability to put macros, potions and other goodies on the bar. :)
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#26 Nov 18 2011 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
Elionara wrote:
Professor Dyrwydi wrote:


I think we're missing something in that list - 15 "in-class" abilities + 10 traits + 5 "Job" abilities if equipped OR 10 "out-of-class" abilities if not "Job" equipped. Right?


From my understanding we get as of 1.20:
15 in-class abilities that can't be removed
11 traits that can't be used on other jobs
10 spots for out-of-class abilities that aren't (exclusive to that class/job)

As of 1.21
5 Job abilities that are quested.

So as of 1.20 we have 5 blank spots in our action bar (with full utilization), 1.21 it's full.

As of 2.0 it will be completely restructured as per the in-game screenshot they showed and we will have ability to put macros, potions and other goodies on the bar. :)


Thank you for the clarification. I am really looking forward to these changes, despite having to basically relearn my classes. Should be a lot of fun.
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#27 Nov 18 2011 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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lightacadi wrote:
I'm going to reserve any real judgement until I see the changes for myself, but based on the descriptions for the pgl/mnk abilities, I can definitely see why people would be complaining. MP management/replenishment is not an easy thing for melees to deal with especially in pro-longed NM fights.


Now, if only there were also a job added that could assist in MP management... :P
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#28 Nov 18 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
KaneKitty wrote:
lightacadi wrote:
I'm going to reserve any real judgement until I see the changes for myself, but based on the descriptions for the pgl/mnk abilities, I can definitely see why people would be complaining. MP management/replenishment is not an easy thing for melees to deal with especially in pro-longed NM fights.


Now, if only there were also a job added that could assist in MP management... :P


Oh oh oh! Me me! I know the answer! ...wait, nvm, no RDM.

In all seriousness though, I do find it odd to build in limiting factors like this just so that groups take a Bard on raids/dungeons/EG Bosses. Building group compilation requirements into class make-up seems both juvenile and Japanese at the same time. I thought we were trying to get away from the "play the way we (Royal "we" referring to SE) want you to" type of design. Why can't Bard be developed as a buffing rogue (sneak attack, backstab, mug, steal, trick-shot w/e) instead of a mana battery utility job?

Edited, Nov 18th 2011 4:12pm by Dyrwydi
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#29 Nov 18 2011 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Professor Dyrwydi wrote:
In all seriousness though, I do find it odd to build in limiting factors like this just so that groups take a Bard on raids/dungeons/EG Bosses. Building group compilation requirements into class make-up seems both juvenile and Japanese at the same time. I thought we were trying to get away from the "play the way we (Royal "we" referring to SE) want you to" type of design. Why can't Bard be developed as a buffing rogue (sneak attack, backstab, mug, steal, trick-shot w/e) instead of a mana battery utility job?


Not everything needs to revolve around being a melee class - there are different play styles and, frankly, we have quite a few melee-focused options available already (e.g., Marauder, Pugilist, Archer, Lancer, Dragoon, &c.). And besides, Monk has access to:

-Temporarily focuses the target's attacks on you, which makes a great combo with:
-Increases evasion and restores MP when an attack is evaded.
And also:
-Melee attack. Chance to absorb MP when executed from the right or left of the target.

Which, especially combined with some cross-class abilities, can probably yield sufficient results even without a Bard in the party. (Like Conjurer's "Temporarily halves enmity and gradually restores MP," and Thaumaturge's "Restores MP in proportion to damage sustained. Casts cannot be interrupted while effect is active.")


Edited, Nov 18th 2011 4:23pm by KaneKitty
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#30 Nov 18 2011 at 4:09 PM Rating: Default
KaneKitty wrote:
Professor Dyrwydi wrote:
In all seriousness though, I do find it odd to build in limiting factors like this just so that groups take a Bard on raids/dungeons/EG Bosses. Building group compilation requirements into class make-up seems both juvenile and Japanese at the same time. I thought we were trying to get away from the "play the way we (Royal "we" referring to SE) want you to" type of design. Why can't Bard be developed as a buffing rogue (sneak attack, backstab, mug, steal, trick-shot w/e) instead of a mana battery utility job?


Not everything needs to revolve around being a melee class - there are different play styles and, frankly, we have quite a few melee-focused options available already (e.g., Marauder, Pugilist, Archer, Lancer, Dragoon, &c.). And besides, Monk has access to:

-Temporarily focuses the target's attacks on you, which makes a great combo with:
-Increases evasion and restores MP when an attack is evaded.
And also:
-Melee attack. Chance to absorb MP when executed from the right or left of the target.

Which, especially combined with some cross-class abilities, can probably yield sufficient results even without a Bard in the party. (Like Conjurer's "Temporarily halves enmity and gradually restores MP," and Thaumaturge's "Restores MP in proportion to damage sustained. Casts cannot be interrupted while effect is active.")


Edited, Nov 18th 2011 4:23pm by KaneKitty


My last post was based on my distracted state, I apologize for posting in haste - I misread some of abilities of MNK and THM, sorry. This negates my point about SE trying to force us to bring a BRD simply for buffing (my sincerest apologies SE/FFXIV Devs), but my point about Bard stands regardless. Instead of further defining Archer as a ranged DPS class, we shift it's focus, through Bard, to a party buffer with a modicum of DPS capability. Do we not already get enough buffing from THM/BLM and CJR/WHM? Both of these Class/Job combos further develop the designed role while ARC/BRD shifts the focus from DPS to Buffer. Granted this is closer to the traditional DnD Bard design, but it still leaves me saddened by disregard for the Job's potential (used to play a Bard/War Chanter PnP). Besides my apparent love-affair with Bard, leaving the game with only 1 ranged DPS class seems like a step backwards from what we had (have currently) before Jobs were introduced (pending). With THM and CNJ we had the choice of two different ranged DPS classes, less so now than before 1.19. Now with the introduction of Jobs we will have 1 true ranged DPS class, a ranged support and a ranged healer. This is based on end-game content thoughts, I know that for normal play we can stick with Classes, but for major encounters it is / will be expected that we equip classes to hone our abilities to meet the challenge. How is Bard a honing of the Archer skills? For encounters involving a lot of melee splash damage are we going to see a massive influx of BLMs to compensate by DPSing from range?

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#31 Nov 18 2011 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
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Elionara wrote:
From my understanding we get as of 1.20:
15 in-class abilities that can't be removed
11 traits that can't be used on other jobs
10 spots for out-of-class abilities that aren't (exclusive to that class/job)

As of 1.21
5 Job abilities that are quested.

So as of 1.20 we have 5 blank spots in our action bar (with full utilization), 1.21 it's full.

As of 2.0 it will be completely restructured as per the in-game screenshot they showed and we will have ability to put macros, potions and other goodies on the bar. :)


There is another possibility. It has been implied - though not explicitly stated - that Jobs lock your cross-class slots so that you can only play "in class". Possible irritants aside, this would bring up one interesting side effect. Job abilities can overlap the cross-class quota. If that is the case, maximum class-skills would be 25 (15 in class, 10 out of class [10 traits not on bar]), while maximum job-skills would be 20 (15 in class, 5 Jobs [10 traits not on bar]). That gives them a little wiggle room for later if they need to add more abilities before 2.0.
#32 Nov 18 2011 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
Hulan wrote:
Elionara wrote:
From my understanding we get as of 1.20:
15 in-class abilities that can't be removed
11 traits that can't be used on other jobs
10 spots for out-of-class abilities that aren't (exclusive to that class/job)

As of 1.21
5 Job abilities that are quested.

So as of 1.20 we have 5 blank spots in our action bar (with full utilization), 1.21 it's full.

As of 2.0 it will be completely restructured as per the in-game screenshot they showed and we will have ability to put macros, potions and other goodies on the bar. :)


There is another possibility. It has been implied - though not explicitly stated - that Jobs lock your cross-class slots so that you can only play "in class". Possible irritants aside, this would bring up one interesting side effect. Job abilities can overlap the cross-class quota. If that is the case, maximum class-skills would be 25 (15 in class, 10 out of class [10 traits not on bar]), while maximum job-skills would be 20 (15 in class, 5 Jobs [10 traits not on bar]). That gives them a little wiggle room for later if they need to add more abilities before 2.0.


Let's not forget this, from the "Letter from the Producer Live Part II"
Yoshi-P wrote:
Question wrote:

Q: Will the level cap be increased before the launch of version 2.0?

A: There is no plan to raise the level cap until 1.21, and this is because it will usher in the job system. Beyond that point up until 2.0, we would like to carefully decide what to do. Increasing the level cap will lead to wider gaps between players.


So these numbers may be adjusted further when the Jobs are introduced in 1.21.
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#33 Nov 18 2011 at 7:38 PM Rating: Good
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did anyone else notice it says THM & BLM, and CON & WHM? under THM & BLM it says THM controls the 6 elements, but thats actually what CON has. are they changing THM and CON with each other?
#34 Nov 18 2011 at 8:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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I must admit I did lol when I read archer/bard and it kinda took me back to the dunes days and the crazy combos you saw there.

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#35 Nov 18 2011 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
Keysofgaruda wrote:
did anyone else notice it says THM & BLM, and CON & WHM? under THM & BLM it says THM controls the 6 elements, but thats actually what CON has. are they changing THM and CON with each other?


It will be divided now - CNJ/WHM will have access to Wind and Earth spells - THM/BLM will have access to Ice, Fire and Lightening.
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#36 Nov 19 2011 at 2:49 AM Rating: Decent
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dayspringrdm wrote:
Still would've liked to see RDM...
The Fencer class would have to be introduced before even thinking about bringing Red Mage on board.

Quote:
Granted this is closer to the traditional DnD Bard design, but it still leaves me saddened by disregard for the Job's potential (used to play a Bard/War Chanter PnP).
I think it more a fitting interpretation of the bard. It's not like SE is being completely original by tying the Bard job to a ranged DPS class. Dragon Age's Leliana is a pretty darn good example (and yes, the most common build for her was archery focus and maxing out her bard skills).

Edited, Nov 19th 2011 3:52am by Ruisu
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#37 Nov 19 2011 at 4:31 AM Rating: Good
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Ruisu wrote:
The Fencer class would have to be introduced before even thinking about bringing Red Mage on board.


Red Mage doesn't nessecarily need to be derived from a fencer. You could have some sort of whip user (Hunter-ish), or pretty much whatever you like. I mean look at Archer and Bard. I think as long as the end result is similar enough to what people want, the unlocking class won't matter as much.
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#38 Nov 19 2011 at 7:37 AM Rating: Default
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just seems like they r gutting to much of the game for me anymore
#39 Nov 19 2011 at 8:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think I have just been disenchanted by this game unfortunately. In a way I just don't have the will to want to play it. I do want to play it, very much, I want to like it...even after reading the changes being made...but it's like IDK. It's like so many changes are on the way, it seems like it may be a completely different game, which is fine, but I don't like playing a game, and then having the rug taken out beneath my feet saying "Hey everything you've done has been for nought!"

I think maybe with all the changes being made, maybe I should just stop until next year and re-roll. Just something about starting something one way and it being completely changed in the middle seems...almost...wrong >_<; IDK. I'm gonna keep my eyes on the boards to see what sorts of changes happen and how people are enjoying them.

Now for the list changes...I feel a bit disappointed...like I was expecting more or something? Am I the only one who feels these changes to jobs aren't adequate? I feel as if something is missing from the list of changes...I just can't put my finger on it.
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#40 Nov 19 2011 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
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I originally wanted to be a blackmage when FFXIV came out and was dissapointed by the many elemental spells conjurer got. I am glad to find out I picked the correct class to level.
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#41 Nov 19 2011 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't understand. So if I want to be a bard, do I have to an archer to a certain level and than switch to a level 1 bard? Am I a bard and archer at the same time? Am I leveling 2 classes at once and switching back and forth between them? I can't grasp the new leveling structure.
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#42 Nov 19 2011 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
I have a question, my reading of the class reforms and action lists lead me to believe that the new list is completely replacing what we currently have but several people in my Linkshell think that the actions listed are in addition to what we have today.

How is everyone else interpreting this?
#43 Nov 19 2011 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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melaniewing wrote:
I have a question, my reading of the class reforms and action lists lead me to believe that the new list is completely replacing what we currently have but several people in my Linkshell think that the actions listed are in addition to what we have today.

How is everyone else interpreting this?


I'm wondering this as well. SE is being very vague about the changes and how it will be worked in it seems. Either that or I have missed something that answered that very question, which is quite possible.
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#44 Nov 19 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Obiar wrote:
I don't understand. So if I want to be a bard, do I have to an archer to a certain level and than switch to a level 1 bard? Am I a bard and archer at the same time? Am I leveling 2 classes at once and switching back and forth between them? I can't grasp the new leveling structure.


LillithaFenimore wrote:
melaniewing wrote:
I have a question, my reading of the class reforms and action lists lead me to believe that the new list is completely replacing what we currently have but several people in my Linkshell think that the actions listed are in addition to what we have today.

How is everyone else interpreting this?


I'm wondering this as well. SE is being very vague about the changes and how it will be worked in it seems. Either that or I have missed something that answered that very question, which is quite possible.


Jobs aren't new things to level, they are an extension of the classes you've already leveled.

So far they've only said this:

Taking their example of paladin, to unlock the job, you need to have leveled Marauder to 15, and Gladiator to 30 to get the quest for unlocking PLD.

Once you do that quest, you then have the ability to turn your gladiator into a PLD by equipping what they call a job stone (they aren't sure if thats what they are calling it at the moment).

Once you equip that job stone on your 30 gladiator, you will be a 30 Paladin and you will see an increase in defence and lowered hp. Presumably, certain cross class abilities will become locked once you change into a job as well, but you will gain new abilities/traits.

Your job does not have levels in the sense that it does not have its own exp bar. The only growth for the job will be through quests that unlock abilities (and probably job specific armor).

Example: Level 30 Gladiator > equip job stone > level 30 Paladin > Exp until Level 31 Paladin > unequip Job stone > level 31 Gladiator > EXP until level 32 gladiator > equip Job stone > Level 32 Paladin > etc etc

The only class being grown through EXP is gladiator, while the job is only being leveled once you do the quests to unlock additional abilities.

Edited, Nov 19th 2011 1:55pm by dasquall
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#45 Nov 19 2011 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
Obiar wrote:
I don't understand. So if I want to be a bard, do I have to an archer to a certain level and than switch to a level 1 bard? Am I a bard and archer at the same time? Am I leveling 2 classes at once and switching back and forth between them? I can't grasp the new leveling structure.


As Desqual stated above, "Jobs" will be different from "Classes" in that you do no level them. As your base Class, in this case Archer, reaches level 30 you will have the ability to quest for a "Job Stone" (name is temporary) which when equipped will grant you access to that Job's abilities (in the case of Archer you gain access to "Bard"). As you continue to level Archer you will gain access to more Bard quests which will grant you additional abilities while the "Job Stone" is equipped. As it currently stands the Class/Job combos are GLD/PLD, LNC/DRG, MRD/WAR, ARC/BRD, PUG/MNK, CNJ/WHM and THM/BLM. Presumably there will be other "Jobs" added to further develop each Class into, but will not require to you re-level beyond the list of Classes, simply questing the Job's specific abilities as the quests become available.
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#46 Nov 19 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks guys for the clarification :)
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#47 Nov 19 2011 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
Ruisu wrote:
The Fencer class would have to be introduced before even thinking about bringing Red Mage on board.


Red Mage doesn't nessecarily need to be derived from a fencer.
Seeing that we were relegated to being everyone's refresh b*tch for the entirety of FFXI, I beg to differ. Call it unfinished business, if you will. >.>
Quote:
I mean look at Archer and Bard.
There's precedent to basing Bard on an off-shoot of the rogue archetype (which is where archers tend to fall). It's why I was not surprised to see them based off archers while those who only played FFIV and FFXI stomped their feet and were asking "WHY SE!?!??!? WHY?>??!?!?!?!?!?@??!?!?!?!?". People should have gotten the hint when we met Thancred, really. :O
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#48 Nov 19 2011 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
Ruisu wrote:
People should have gotten the hint when we met Thancred, really. :O


Really? a dagger wielding NPC Bard? We should have surmised that we would be bow wielding Bards? My hopes pointed in another direction. Please detail what you mean by "should have gotten the hint" as that makes no sense to me.
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#49 Nov 19 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Default
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Professor Dyrwydi wrote:
Really? a dagger wielding NPC Bard? We should have surmised that we would be bow wielding Bards? My hopes pointed in another direction. Please detail what you mean by "should have gotten the hint" as that makes no sense to me.
I meant more along the lines of "Bards this time around will most likely be in the thick of things instead of being in the background spamming songs"...or put plainly, "playing a bard will involve combat in some capacity". And as I've mentioned on the O-boards, Thancred reeks of classic bard, which is an offshoot of the rogue archetype (well, barring old school DnD, where they were a warrior offshoot).

Again, it's not much of a stretch, specially if you're willing to look beyond FF bards. Again Leliana from Dragon Age comes to mind.

Edited, Nov 19th 2011 9:01pm by Ruisu
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#50 Nov 20 2011 at 12:13 AM Rating: Good
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
melaniewing wrote:
I have a question, my reading of the class reforms and action lists lead me to believe that the new list is completely replacing what we currently have but several people in my Linkshell think that the actions listed are in addition to what we have today.

How is everyone else interpreting this?


I'm wondering this as well. SE is being very vague about the changes and how it will be worked in it seems. Either that or I have missed something that answered that very question, which is quite possible.


The actions and abilities listed will be replacing the repertoires you have now. You will have significantly fewer abilties to choose from at any given time. They've stated this pretty clearly, I do believe. Yes, some will be missing. Many are being eliminated, some may come back when the cap rises, who knows?
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#51 Nov 20 2011 at 12:21 AM Rating: Good
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MNK Abl. 2 O Adds kicks to auto-attacks. Effect fades upon reuse. MP is continually consumed while effect is active.


Saw this coming and I'm still excited!

Can't wait too see Roe kick attacks!
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