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#52 Nov 20 2011 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Ruisu wrote:
Again, it's not much of a stretch, specially if you're willing to look beyond FF bards. Again Leliana from Dragon Age comes to mind.


Skyrim comes to mind, Skald as an advanced Bard. Lute-Axe/Drum-Shield ftw!
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#53 Nov 20 2011 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
Ruisu wrote:
Again, it's not much of a stretch, specially if you're willing to look beyond FF bards. Again Leliana from Dragon Age comes to mind.


Skyrim comes to mind, Skald as an advanced Bard. Lute-Axe/Drum-Shield ftw!
Guess the combat-oriented bard is making a comeback! Good to know.

/wish I had skyrim
//moreso, wish I had a PC that could run it
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#54 Nov 20 2011 at 7:19 PM Rating: Good
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Ruisu wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Ruisu wrote:
Again, it's not much of a stretch, specially if you're willing to look beyond FF bards. Again Leliana from Dragon Age comes to mind.


Skyrim comes to mind, Skald as an advanced Bard. Lute-Axe/Drum-Shield ftw!
Guess the combat-oriented bard is making a comeback! Good to know.

/wish I had skyrim
//moreso, wish I had a PC that could run it


If you can run FFXIV you can run Skyrim O_o it's more optimised than FFXIV, even more optimised than FO:NV too. There's a whole Bard College now along with the standard Warrior/Thief/Mage/Dark brotherhood, with Skyrim being set in *coughs* Skyrim you occasionally meet Skalds who prefer to go melee in battle or quest to find that legendary drum. Ranged is for sissy.

Seriously, I need to write to SE to make Skald a MRD's job, using Lute-Axe!

Edited, Nov 20th 2011 8:21pm by Khornette
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#55 Nov 21 2011 at 6:32 AM Rating: Default
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Just had to put this in due to we got on the topic a bit...DAO and Skyrim are ded seckzy! :D SE, please take notes from these games?

Seeing a melee type BRD making an appearance makes sense considering how brds were used in XI. The pull/refresh ***** come to mind anyone?
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#56 Nov 21 2011 at 7:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Wait... so Bard gets 1 ability, and refresh/regain?

This better not come at a price of reduced arc ability and dmg because I can just see it now: "Just stand there with refresh song on, we'll do the work."
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#57 Nov 21 2011 at 7:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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The amount of damage generated by a string of critical hits is enough to send any enemies left standing fleeing in terror.
Smiley: dubious
Standing or fleeing? Which is it?
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#58 Nov 21 2011 at 8:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Quote:
The amount of damage generated by a string of critical hits is enough to send any enemies left standing fleeing in terror.
Smiley: dubious
Standing or fleeing? Which is it?


Jogging in place.
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#59 Nov 21 2011 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Quote:
The amount of damage generated by a string of critical hits is enough to send any enemies left standing fleeing in terror.
Smiley: dubious
Standing or fleeing? Which is it?


Quote:
send any enemies left standing, fleeing in terror
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#60 Nov 21 2011 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
Wait... so Bard gets 1 ability, and refresh/regain?

This better not come at a price of reduced arc ability and dmg because I can just see it now: "Just stand there with refresh song on, we'll do the work."


Yeah that would really stink. However, I wonder if certian support BRD abilities will stack or will it work for example as it did in DAO with Leliana? Where you could only have one song activated at a time....hrmmmmm
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#61 Nov 21 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Wait... so Bard gets 1 ability, and refresh/regain?

This better not come at a price of reduced arc ability and dmg because I can just see it now: "Just stand there with refresh song on, we'll do the work."


Yeah that would really stink. However, I wonder if certian support BRD abilities will stack or will it work for example as it did in DAO with Leliana? Where you could only have one song activated at a time....hrmmmmm


The Bard abilities are listed under the 'Exclusive' tab, which means they're not an ability an Archer is going to have access to unless they specifically set their job to Bard.

This may not be a popular opinion or something that people want to hear, but I'm pretty sure if someone is setting their job to Bard as an Archer they're giving up the role of damage dealer for one of party support, and as such if they expect to join in the front lines as a main source of dishing out DPS to the enemy in combination with being a powerhouse of party support then they're going to be disappointed.

Granted we don't know the actual mechanics of these abilities just yet, and it could be that you can apply buffs to the part and start plinking arrows toward the enemy until the songs need to be reapplied, but if I'm seeking party as a support role (bard) I'm not going to get upset when they ask me to forgo doing damage.

Edited, Nov 21st 2011 1:09pm by Whales
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#62 Nov 21 2011 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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So what kind of ranged attacks will a bard have? Will it still use a bow and arrows or will it be the up close stabby kind or will there be a choice?
#63 Nov 21 2011 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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MrTalos wrote:
So what kind of ranged attacks will a bard have? Will it still use a bow and arrows or will it be the up close stabby kind or will there be a choice?


Jobs will use the inherit weapons of the main class. As far my knowledge goes i don't think we are getting new weapon field. I am still unclear how the class to job will work for armor/weapons. MRD uses magic stone and evolves to WAR stats and skills change, armor? weapon?.
GLA/PLD - 1h Sword/Shield
MRD/WAR - G.Axe
LNC/DRG - Pole
PUG/MNK - H2H
ARC/BRD - Bow
CNJ/WHM & THM/BLM - 1h/2h staff/wand

Edited, Nov 21st 2011 2:47pm by TwiddleDee
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#64 Nov 21 2011 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well I'm not a GLA but I think the GLA/PLD changes are pretty great.

As for CON/WHM, pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever seen giving some elemental nukes to the healing class and some to BLM. They should all belong to BLM, and they should have focused on better abilities for the CON class. Really not impressed at all.

I agree that ARC/BRD is weird. I'm more concerned that ARC will have high dmg and possess the buff songs. LNC would have to have significantly better dmg in my mind to justify LNC = ARC since the ARC buffs from BRD seem pretty strong for a group.

Oh well, either I'm going to make a MNK or ARC now and dump my CON, or rethink playing at all.

Edit: And don't get me started on how one of the three WHM magics is something that consumes all of our MP to deal dmg. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Edited, Nov 21st 2011 5:32pm by Vashteera
#65 Nov 21 2011 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Quote:
The amount of damage generated by a string of critical hits is enough to send any enemies left standing fleeing in terror.
Smiley: dubious
Standing or fleeing? Which is it?


They are too terrified to move. Just like in Skyrim now whenever I go into the Barrows, the Draug Deathlords either run away or cower in corner. Or maybe Bethesda messed up the AI.
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#66 Nov 21 2011 at 6:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Granted we don't know the actual mechanics of these abilities just yet, and it could be that you can apply buffs to the part and start plinking arrows toward the enemy until the songs need to be reapplied, but if I'm seeking party as a support role (bard) I'm not going to get upset when they ask me to forgo doing damage.
I don't see why anyone would ask that. Ideally, Bard could afford to be slightly below the damage dealers with full buffs up. Unless bosses start being balanced around the feared TP feed (which is 50/50 seeing that the same guy that allowed TP feed to exist in XI is doing battle design for XIV), I don't see why anyone would object to a Bard shooting arrows during a fight so long as their buffs are up. Should be no different than Sword Singer/Bladedancer from Lineage II.

Edited, Nov 21st 2011 7:33pm by Ruisu
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#67 Nov 21 2011 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ruisu wrote:
I don't see why anyone would ask that. Ideally, Bard could afford to be slightly below the damage dealers with full buffs up. Unless bosses start being balanced around the feared TP feed (which is 50/50 seeing that the same guy that allowed TP feed to exist in XI is doing battle design for XIV), I don't see why anyone would object to a Bard shooting arrows during a fight so long as their buffs are up. Should be no different than Sword Singer/Bladedancer from Lineage II.


I know many a Bards in FFXI who were chastised for joining in battle, regardless of their ability to keep their buffs up. The reasoning was always as you mentioned - feeding TP to the mobs specifically in relation to the amount of damage the Bard did.
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#68 Nov 21 2011 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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Whales wrote:
I know many a Bards in FFXI who were chastised for joining in battle, regardless of their ability to keep their buffs up. The reasoning was always as you mentioned - feeding TP to the mobs specifically in relation to the amount of damage the Bard did.
If Ifrit is any indication, I don't think TP feed is what allows it to use the abilities it has during the fight. That alone is a huge step forward and a nice indication of what they're going for when it comes to fights. Which means TP feed is not much of a factor for the content that matters. Granted, it'd need to be confirmed with hard numbers and such, but there is hope.
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#69 Nov 22 2011 at 5:34 AM Rating: Decent
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TwiddleDee wrote:
MrTalos wrote:
So what kind of ranged attacks will a bard have? Will it still use a bow and arrows or will it be the up close stabby kind or will there be a choice?


Jobs will use the inherit weapons of the main class. As far my knowledge goes i don't think we are getting new weapon field. I am still unclear how the class to job will work for armor/weapons. MRD uses magic stone and evolves to WAR stats and skills change, armor? weapon?.
GLA/PLD - 1h Sword/Shield
MRD/WAR - G.Axe
LNC/DRG - Pole
PUG/MNK - H2H
ARC/BRD - Bow
CNJ/WHM & THM/BLM - 1h/2h staff/wand

Edited, Nov 21st 2011 2:47pm by TwiddleDee


I keep scratching my head as to the bard, archer connection but I suppose a bow and a harp are not that far off.
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#70 Nov 22 2011 at 6:09 AM Rating: Default
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Obiar wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
MrTalos wrote:
So what kind of ranged attacks will a bard have? Will it still use a bow and arrows or will it be the up close stabby kind or will there be a choice?


Jobs will use the inherit weapons of the main class. As far my knowledge goes i don't think we are getting new weapon field. I am still unclear how the class to job will work for armor/weapons. MRD uses magic stone and evolves to WAR stats and skills change, armor? weapon?.
GLA/PLD - 1h Sword/Shield
MRD/WAR - G.Axe
LNC/DRG - Pole
PUG/MNK - H2H
ARC/BRD - Bow
CNJ/WHM & THM/BLM - 1h/2h staff/wand

Edited, Nov 21st 2011 2:47pm by TwiddleDee


I keep scratching my head as to the bard, archer connection but I suppose a bow and a harp are not that far off.


I think this has already been mentioned, but the whole Bard + Archer / Rogue / Thief archetype is not that uncommon.

What I wonder a bit is how they will handle the bowharps.

Sure, they've already shown their design, but I wonder if it will be a different, BRD only type of weapon that needs to be used to activate the songs (IE, you cannot use songs if you are equiping the Crab Bow, you need a "Cobalt Bowharp" or whatever), or if that once you become a BRD all your regular bows are already treated as "bowharps" and you can still use your current bows as a bard.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 7:10am by AdvancedWind
#71 Nov 22 2011 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
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I was thinking more like a golden harmonica that shoots flaming darts! A bow harp just sounds boring. lol

Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 9:23am by kainsilv
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#72 Nov 22 2011 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
AdvancedWind wrote:
Obiar wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
MrTalos wrote:
So what kind of ranged attacks will a bard have? Will it still use a bow and arrows or will it be the up close stabby kind or will there be a choice?


Jobs will use the inherit weapons of the main class. As far my knowledge goes i don't think we are getting new weapon field. I am still unclear how the class to job will work for armor/weapons. MRD uses magic stone and evolves to WAR stats and skills change, armor? weapon?.
GLA/PLD - 1h Sword/Shield
MRD/WAR - G.Axe
LNC/DRG - Pole
PUG/MNK - H2H
ARC/BRD - Bow
CNJ/WHM & THM/BLM - 1h/2h staff/wand

Edited, Nov 21st 2011 2:47pm by TwiddleDee


I keep scratching my head as to the bard, archer connection but I suppose a bow and a harp are not that far off.


I think this has already been mentioned, but the whole Bard + Archer / Rogue / Thief archetype is not that uncommon.

What I wonder a bit is how they will handle the bowharps.

Sure, they've already shown their design, but I wonder if it will be a different, BRD only type of weapon that needs to be used to activate the songs (IE, you cannot use songs if you are equiping the Crab Bow, you need a "Cobalt Bowharp" or whatever), or if that once you become a BRD all your regular bows are already treated as "bowharps" and you can still use your current bows as a bard.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 7:10am by AdvancedWind


Or are the Job Stones actually weapon modifiers or secondary weapons/tools? Does the Bard Stone turn the equipped bow into a Bow Harp, or is it a set of pocket panpipes that we whip out then playing music? Does the Paladin Stone actually resemble a Holy Relic through which the Paladin Abilities are channeled? Is the Warrior Stone actually papers which legitimize the former mercenary as an actual soldier? The possibilities for tying these objects into the current game-play is endless. Just a thought, likely totally off-base with this idea...
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#73 Nov 22 2011 at 8:38 AM Rating: Good
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Professor Dyrwydi wrote:
Or are the Job Stones actually weapon modifiers or secondary weapons/tools? Does the Bard Stone turn the equipped bow into a Bow Harp, or is it a set of pocket panpipes that we whip out then playing music? Does the Paladin Stone actually resemble a Holy Relic through which the Paladin Abilities are channeled? Is the Warrior Stone actually papers which legitimize the former mercenary as an actual soldier? The possibilities for tying these objects into the current game-play is endless. Just a thought, likely totally off-base with this idea...


They'll be crystals; abilities appear when they're used. No other explanation will be given.
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#74 Nov 22 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Why is a Bard with a bow so hard to believe? Look at Rift main soul Bard with Ranger secondary you stay at distance auto attacking with bow as you hit up buffs and weapon skill ones you have enough tp (or charges in Rift's case). As for the instrument, SE gave you the answer. Bard performs songs, meaning it uses voice not an instrument.

Quote:
The bard is a versatile job that performs songs to bolster various attributes of his companions. Coupled with his ability in battle, this enables the bard to carry his own weight in either an offensive or defensive capacity.


As far as the list shows Bard's skills, could be just that instant skills with a cool down of X, and duration of Y. Or something more likely have a cast of X, duration of Y and a recast of Z. Again SE can chose to add an instrument for looks only, no different then the anvil for BSM/ARM or the table for GSM/CRP/LTW.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 10:20am by TwiddleDee
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#75 Nov 22 2011 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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As for the instrument, SE gave you the answer. Bard performs songs, meaning it uses voice not an instrument.


LOL, don't know what you were thinking here. The word song in no way necessitates the use of a voice, have you never heard of an instrumental song. If the word you'd quoted said sing, then yes a voice could be inferred but just because it uses the word song in no way at all implies that a bard would use it's voice. Also the fact they've already shown the harp/bow kinda shows they're going to go with a instrument or maybe an instrument/singing combo (as in FFXI).
#76 Nov 22 2011 at 10:44 AM Rating: Default
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TheFrozenKing wrote:
LOL, don't know what you were thinking here. The word song in no way necessitates the use of a voice, have you never heard of an instrumental song. If the word you'd quoted said sing, then yes a voice could be inferred but just because it uses the word song in no way at all implies that a bard would use it's voice. Also the fact they've already shown the harp/bow kinda shows they're going to go with a instrument or maybe an instrument/singing combo (as in FFXI).


As it reads all the Bard skills fall under magic meaning they will have a cast timer, and may or may not require MP to cast. So picture the animation to cast shell, except you get [Increases the physical and magic accuracy of all party members within range] not shell when it's finished. Maybe the bow Bard gets is a little different looking from the ARC ones, but i highly doubt it'll get any instrument as a stand alone. Though it could be that an instrument is attached to the bow and the Bard pulls it off when casting?

Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 11:51am by TwiddleDee
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#77 Nov 22 2011 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Why is a Bard with a bow so hard to believe? Look at Rift main soul Bard with Ranger secondary you stay at distance auto attacking with bow as you hit up buffs and weapon skill ones you have enough tp (or charges in Rift's case). As for the instrument, SE gave you the answer. Bard performs songs, meaning it uses voice not an instrument.


Quote:
The bard is a versatile job that performs songs to bolster various attributes of his companions. Coupled with his ability in battle, this enables the bard to carry his own weight in either an offensive or defensive capacity.


As far as the list shows Bard's skills, could be just that instant skills with a cool down of X, and duration of Y. Or something more likely have a cast of X, duration of Y and a recast of Z. Again SE can chose to add an instrument for looks only, no different then the anvil for BSM/ARM or the table for GSM/CRP/LTW.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 10:20am by TwiddleDee

It's hard for many to believe because of the exp. from FFXI. Bard would never really do melee. They always used their instruments to either pull, buff, or debuff. So for me, someone who only played FFXI, seeing a bard with a weapon kinda throws me off kilter. When I played DAO I was like "ohhh a bard". Then I was like "oh she's a ranger type thingie" It's not that it's hard to believe, it's just some of use havn't really seen a bard other than in FFXI :)

Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 1:23pm by LillithaFenimore
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#78 Nov 22 2011 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
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What's up with the removal of all enfeeble spells?
They streamlined an entire class role in to combos.
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#79 Nov 22 2011 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
Why is a Bard with a bow so hard to believe? Look at Rift main soul Bard with Ranger secondary you stay at distance auto attacking with bow as you hit up buffs and weapon skill ones you have enough tp (or charges in Rift's case). As for the instrument, SE gave you the answer. Bard performs songs, meaning it uses voice not an instrument.


Quote:
The bard is a versatile job that performs songs to bolster various attributes of his companions. Coupled with his ability in battle, this enables the bard to carry his own weight in either an offensive or defensive capacity.


As far as the list shows Bard's skills, could be just that instant skills with a cool down of X, and duration of Y. Or something more likely have a cast of X, duration of Y and a recast of Z. Again SE can chose to add an instrument for looks only, no different then the anvil for BSM/ARM or the table for GSM/CRP/LTW.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 10:20am by TwiddleDee

It's hard for many to believe because of the exp. from FFXI. Bard would never really do melee. They always used their instruments to either pull, buff, or debuff. So for me, someone who only played FFXI, seeing a bard with a weapon kinda throws me off kilter. When I played DAO I was like "ohhh a bard". Then I was like "oh she's a ranger type thingie" It's not that it's hard to believe, it's just some of use havn't really seen a bard other than in FFXI :)

Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 1:23pm by LillithaFenimore


Bard/Minstrel can fall in different streams in different games. And they don't always have an instrument. Usually a bard is Support/Dps/Heals in that order, that's what it is designed to do in RIFT, TLOTRO, FFXI, exe.

The reason why in FFXI no one has seen a bard do more then give ballad was because players threw chains on the job. A well geared bard in xi could hold his ground quite well in DPS. I had no problem solo T - VT sharks in sea at 75, long before most even stepped foot in a Promyvon. Thing was most players didn't know how to properly gear up and needed the BRD's to be a crutch.
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#80 Nov 22 2011 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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The reason why in FFXI no one has seen a bard do more then give ballad was because players threw chains
Quote:
on the job. A well geared bard in xi could hold his ground quite well in DPS. I had no problem solo T - VT sharks in sea at 75, long before most even stepped foot in a Promyvon. Thing was most players didn't know how to properly gear up and needed the BRD's to be a crutch.

I find this very hard to believe... Bard holding his own as DPS? Not in a million years.
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#81 Nov 22 2011 at 1:58 PM Rating: Default
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lambon wrote:
I find this very hard to believe... Bard holding his own as DPS? Not in a million years.


My 6 years of playing bard (2004-2010) vs. the opinion of someone who probably never unlocked the job. It's a fact that BRD dps is far cry from SAM/WAR/DRK/RNG, however it's still a lot higher then most people give it credit for.
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#82 Nov 22 2011 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Thing was most players didn't know how to properly gear up and needed the BRD's to be a crutch.

Double march isn't a crutch. Double march is an amphetamine.
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#83 Nov 22 2011 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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Double march isn't a crutch. Double march is an amphetamine.


Heh, I always was bard with groups that were already awesome without me. With me, we could go nuts. :D
#84 Nov 22 2011 at 3:00 PM Rating: Default
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In 11 bards were pullers. In 14 Archer's are the only ones with REAL ranged attacks.
Bards will have all archer abilities + Bard abilities. So, they will still be as potent as a DD as an archer.

The first appearance of a bard that I remember in a final fantasy series was FFIV with Edward. And he was pretty handy with a bow.

So, in a way, they are not only NOT being just like 11 (with Lnc/Drg and Arc/Brd going back to the classic character styles). They are staying true to Final Fantasy, but not being just another 11-2.

I can't imagine the three bard abilities being so limiting that they are the only thing that bards do.

As for in 11. Brds were like mnks, and Kraken users. They could dish out a crapload of damage, but they also caused the mob to build up an obscene amount of tp. From what I had seen of the bards I knew, they were the ones that took themselves out of combat more then not being wanted in combat. It was the fact that, singing their 4 songs, and pulling took up so much time that they never had time to whack on the mob. It was always pull, buff the mages, buff the meleers, pull. With only having one melee and one mage ability, both of which appear to be easy enough for them to use, and still shoot a few arrows, they can easily be a part of a party.
The other thing is, they will not be able to sleep pull. I can actually see brd group pulling, blm sleep group, mrd group aggro, tank pull main mob, and everyone else aoe zerg. Or something just as crazy as that.

But until we actually see character dynamics, we will not know how the new abilities will work together. But, Bard is not going to end up being a nerfed Archer.
#85 Nov 22 2011 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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To rfolkker, BRD was not in any way "like mnks", they did not do a crap load of dmg, and if a person owned a kraken club when it was worth a **** he would level another job to use it.

How it will turn out in FFXIV I have no idea, but in FFXI the stuff you're describing is imaginary.

Just look at the DMG formulas of the game and you'll realize that the potential just is not there.
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#86 Nov 22 2011 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:
In 11 bards were pullers.


Not exclusively nor reliably as far as expectations went.

True I pulled a lot during my Bard years in FFXI, which was only up to and including ToAU, but it was only under optimal group settings and favorable companions. Bard pulling was a skill few mastered, fewer expected and the least few understood. To say unconditionally Bards were pullers in FFXI is not painting an entirely accurate picture.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 5:31pm by Whales
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#87 Nov 22 2011 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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My 6 years of playing bard (2004-2010) vs. the opinion of someone who probably never unlocked the job. It's a fact that BRD dps is far cry from SAM/WAR/DRK/RNG, however it's still a lot higher then most people give it credit for.


Not here to start anything, but how the **** do you ascertain such information without a single detail about me?

I played FFXI from 2004, the PS2 release of XI, til 2009 I believe, when they started adding Abyssea.

My bard was level 75. I used it for everything but DPS. There was nothing we could use to hold our own against; well, anything.
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#88 Nov 22 2011 at 4:45 PM Rating: Default
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Whales wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
In 11 bards were pullers.


Not exclusively nor reliably as far as expectations went.

True I pulled a lot during my Bard years in FFXI, which was only up to and including ToAU, but it was only under optimal group settings and favorable companions. Bard pulling was a skill few mastered, fewer expected and the least few understood. To say unconditionally Bards were pullers in FFXI is not painting an entirely accurate picture.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 5:31pm by Whales


Sad but true, from the people who played bard maybe half leveled the job for more then a cheep way to get merits. From those only half could play the job decently. Only a third of those actually became proficient with the job. And only a quarter of those people actually mastered bard. In my 8 years of playing XI only 4% of bard's i have seen knew the job's mechanics. The rest got a "never job change to bard."

edit

@lambon: you played bard for that long and you never learned how it works... sad... just too sad. You should have simply not said anything at all about who long you embarrassed the job for. Bard had more then most to hold it's ground, just people took the easy road.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 5:56pm by TwiddleDee
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#89 Nov 22 2011 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Although, it's very different from what we had in FFXI, from a gameplay standpoint, the ARC/BRD combination actually kind of makes sense the way they explained it.

The Archer on its own can pump out a large amount of spike damage in a short time, and likely out damage other classes within this time frame. But, likely due to recast timers or other limitations, it becomes much less efficient in a prolonged battle and falls quickly behind the other classes in damage and productivity. A class like this would excel in battles where the outcome is decided quickly; the kind fights where high damage 2 hour abilities were desired in FFXI.

The Bard on the other hand complements the archers weaknesses perfectly. It may not make a noticeable difference in a battle that needs to be ended in 30 seconds, but It excels greatly at optimizing a party over a longer period of time.

A combination like this would be able to contribute respectable damage spikes, possibly helping to eliminate certain obsticals a a timely fashion, while also making significant contributions in prolonged battles and/or dungions.
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#90 Nov 22 2011 at 5:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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JonnyWolf wrote:
Although, it's very different from what we had in FFXI, from a gameplay standpoint, the ARC/BRD combination actually kind of makes sense the way they explained it.

From a gameplay standpoint, a ranged attack buffer is not foreign to FFXI.

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#91 Nov 22 2011 at 8:43 PM Rating: Decent
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oh yeah, that's kinda funny that I forgot about that. my bad

PUG/MNK seems like it'll be fun, but I expected the wind stance to speed up attacks. maybe that would be too powerful, but with having one for def+ and one for eva+ it seems like one of those two would just become redundant.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they just had RDM branch off of Gladiator. It would trade some physical ability for magic. it already has weaker but quicker attacks with sword/shield, and would just be come more versatile.

Also, about the ability with this description; "Grants a HoT effect on all party members within range when a healing spell is cast on you". What is an 'HoT effect'? Is this obvious to everyone but me?

I'm really looking forward to playing with the new LNC and DRG abilities. I played DRG almost exclusively in FFXI and I'm happy with the decision to not have the wyvern here. [not that I didn't like it in FFXI..] I also really like the idea of specializing in critical hit damage, as I always thought this would be a great fit for a DRG class. Working with low accuracy WSs will take some getting used to though, because I'm still used to being king of accuracy in FFXI.

I'm really curious exactly how the Jump abilities are gonna work this time. The descriptions aren't completely clear, and I'd always wanted ones in FFXI that worked more like the old ones [Jump, stay in the air, than fall for good damage].

This isn't a real issue or anything, but I kind of expected the roles of the conjurer and thaumaturge to be reversed. Am I the only one? Conjurer seems more in tune with nature, ie commanding the elements [essentially what black magic is]. Also, conjurer had the classic spell names, which I rather have kept for the black magic than white [this is personal preference of course]. Now that the spells are split though, and don't seem to overlap anymore they might just give all the spells their old names back. Meanwhile the Thaumaturge, a mirical worker, seems more suited healing, reviving, curing ailments, and giving status buffs. I'm also wondering if that 'consumes all MP' magic attack is Holy.

Marauder seems interesting. They're trying to make it an offence defense hybrid again, which didn't really work in FFXI. I'm wondering if they'll be able to balance it this time.
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#92 Nov 22 2011 at 11:22 PM Rating: Good
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HoT stands for Healing over Time. Regen is a HoT spell.
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#93 Nov 23 2011 at 8:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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TwiddleDee wrote:


@lambon: you played bard for that long and you never learned how it works... sad... just too sad. You should have simply not said anything at all about who long you embarrassed the job for. Bard had more then most to hold it's ground, just people took the easy road.



You are talking out of your a$$...

Like lambon, Bard was my main job for about 5 years. I was quite good at it. But...I was not out soloing mobs. I would often dress up ready to battle in my best multi-multi million gil battle gear...but I was still a Bard. I would often call myself a "Battle-Bard"...it was kinda cute. But that's all it was.

I was a FFXI Bard. Designed for support. I pulled and was a regen/buff/de-buff machine. I was comedy relief. Not a lot of HP, not a lot of MP....just a lot of heart. Everyone loved me but noone wanted me to hit anything.

A Battle-Bard. pfft...please. Don't insult my intelligence.
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#94 Nov 23 2011 at 9:31 AM Rating: Default
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Simool wrote:

You are talking out of your a$$...

I was a FFXI Bard. Designed for support. I pulled and was a regen/buff/de-buff machine. I was comedy relief. Not a lot of HP, not a lot of MP....just a lot of heart. Everyone loved me but noone wanted me to hit anything.


Depending on the situation you are correct, in some it's was fine to sit back and regen/buff/de-buff, in others it was the lazy attitude and lack of knowledge that made people shy away from utilizing the job. BRD/BST was a great combo out of sky/sea, used it to level 65-75 as i never had the time window to party.. People never saw the big picture and for the most part limited bard to party/event use. Anyway to toss the train back on the rails.

In the list of skills i cant help but feel that some of the key skills that are a must currently have no alternative. Maybe it's just me but i still cant see the big picture as to were SE is going with the skills.
Like GLA Abl. 1, it's meant to replace 5 different GLA current skills.. I actually liked the variety.. As well is this 1 skills going to give the same bonus as if you had the 5 it's replacing stacked or be 1/2 as useful as 1 out of the 5 SE ousting??
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#95 Nov 23 2011 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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One of the real big features of this list is it will allow for more magic classes down the line as well as other classes all around. Giving each class the same amount of skills will hopefully make the balancing of the game easier as well as put more focus on the skills that exist and make them more valuable, rather then having 50 skills, and really only using 10 of them.

I for one feel the game needs more magic classes, and hopefully these changes will open up new magic classes and give them access to some powerful spells. Since de-buffing is really going away for the time being, adding a magic class that just focus on debuffing would be very exciting, as well as hopefully open up the possibility of a red mage down the line.
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#96 Nov 23 2011 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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BrinZalazar wrote:
One of the real big features of this list is it will allow for more magic classes down the line as well as other classes all around. Giving each class the same amount of skills will hopefully make the balancing of the game easier as well as put more focus on the skills that exist and make them more valuable, rather then having 50 skills, and really only using 10 of them.

I for one feel the game needs more magic classes, and hopefully these changes will open up new magic classes and give them access to some powerful spells. Since de-buffing is really going away for the time being, adding a magic class that just focus on debuffing would be very exciting, as well as hopefully open up the possibility of a red mage down the line.

While I very much like a lot of what I am seeing here, I am of mixed minds on the limitations they have placed on the number and types of abilities. As an analytically minded person, I very much see the appeal of the systematic approach; "Every class gets 15 abilities, balance will be set around those 15 abilities." It's clean, it doesn't take much work later so they can devote more time to other problems....

At the same time, I cannot in good conscience support artificially limiting yourself to solve a short-term problem. This move would be akin to saying, "Boy, that hallway is awfully narrow, I don't think I will fit. I know, if I tie my hands behind my back, I will be more thin and fit more easily." They've solved a short-term problem in a way that I fear is going to become a serious issue in the long-term. I suspect there will be another system change at or before 2.0 that will relax these constraints a bit (since at the very least, they're going to hit a brick wall when they try to add new abilities to existing classes).
#97 Nov 23 2011 at 12:21 PM Rating: Default
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Hulan wrote:

While I very much like a lot of what I am seeing here, I am of mixed minds on the limitations they have placed on the number and types of abilities. As an analytically minded person, I very much see the appeal of the systematic approach; "Every class gets 15 abilities, balance will be set around those 15 abilities." It's clean, it doesn't take much work later so they can devote more time to other problems....

At the same time, I cannot in good conscience support artificially limiting yourself to solve a short-term problem. This move would be akin to saying, "Boy, that hallway is awfully narrow, I don't think I will fit. I know, if I tie my hands behind my back, I will be more thin and fit more easily." They've solved a short-term problem in a way that I fear is going to become a serious issue in the long-term. I suspect there will be another system change at or before 2.0 that will relax these constraints a bit (since at the very least, they're going to hit a brick wall when they try to add new abilities to existing classes).


I don't see how this change limits you, to the extent you are portraying. SE is simply trimming off the extra fat, for a more leaner presentation. As well by removing the extra skills that you have never used on class X, they can be reworked and given to a new class/job.

A better description to your quote is "a hallway just large enough for 2 fat people to walk one behind the other, after loosing the fat both can walk side by side". I don't see this being a issue in the future, and yes more then likely will have another system changes before 2.0.
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#98 Nov 23 2011 at 12:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hulan wrote:


At the same time, I cannot in good conscience support artificially limiting yourself to solve a short-term problem. This move would be akin to saying, "Boy, that hallway is awfully narrow, I don't think I will fit. I know, if I tie my hands behind my back, I will be more thin and fit more easily." They've solved a short-term problem in a way that I fear is going to become a serious issue in the long-term. I suspect there will be another system change at or before 2.0 that will relax these constraints a bit (since at the very least, they're going to hit a brick wall when they try to add new abilities to existing classes).


Yeah... I am with you here... also sorry but having only a few class abilities at level 50 is pretty weak imo. I don't know about folks here, but one of the things I really love about leveling is getting access to new spells and abilities... nevermind that having only a small handful of spells at level 50 is pretty terrible and boring as far as I am concerned.

I am especially concerned about mages. I mean, wow. Just wow. Need more spells guys, sorry but this cookie cutter EVERY CLASS MUST ONLY HAVE A FEW ABILITIES thing is really lame for mages. Oh goodie, if I spend months grinding I will have an AOE ice and an AOE fire spell! AND single target versions! WOW!

/sigh

I'm happy for those of you that think these changes are really great. I am. I hope you enjoy the game. I'm mourning what it has become and what it is becoming, but I know that others don't share my opinion, so that's cool.

On a lot of levels I hope I'm proven wrong. I just don't see a lot of people wanting to pay for a game that gives so few spells to mages.

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#99 Nov 23 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus wrote:
Hulan wrote:


At the same time, I cannot in good conscience support artificially limiting yourself to solve a short-term problem. This move would be akin to saying, "Boy, that hallway is awfully narrow, I don't think I will fit. I know, if I tie my hands behind my back, I will be more thin and fit more easily." They've solved a short-term problem in a way that I fear is going to become a serious issue in the long-term. I suspect there will be another system change at or before 2.0 that will relax these constraints a bit (since at the very least, they're going to hit a brick wall when they try to add new abilities to existing classes).


Yeah... I am with you here... also sorry but having only a few class abilities at level 50 is pretty weak imo. I don't know about folks here, but one of the things I really love about leveling is getting access to new spells and abilities... nevermind that having only a small handful of spells at level 50 is pretty terrible and boring as far as I am concerned.

I am especially concerned about mages. I mean, wow. Just wow. Need more spells guys, sorry but this cookie cutter EVERY CLASS MUST ONLY HAVE A FEW ABILITIES thing is really lame for mages. Oh goodie, if I spend months grinding I will have an AOE ice and an AOE fire spell! AND single target versions! WOW!

/sigh

I'm happy for those of you that think these changes are really great. I am. I hope you enjoy the game. I'm mourning what it has become and what it is becoming, but I know that others don't share my opinion, so that's cool.

On a lot of levels I hope I'm proven wrong. I just don't see a lot of people wanting to pay for a game that gives so few spells to mages.



But the opposite to this is that when Scholar and blue mage were released in 11, there were quite a few complaints about them not having a place because the abilities were already there. The same was true of dancer and puppet master.

By trimming the abilities by classes, this gives them a better ability to offer more classes with a more diverse ability set. One thing that I would love to see out of this would be a mage class for each element. But I don't think they could work that in. If you could have a class that specialized in each element, then have some of their abilities be class specific, but their basic elemental attacks be cross class, the diversity would be extensive, but it would allow for a far greater specialization.

For now, we are looking at an early beta of a game, and, while many of the decisions are going to offend and/or upset, they had 2 choices really, call it quits, or redesign the game from the ground up. By redesigning the game, we are going to lose things we like, it is the cost of redesign.

Many of them may come back (and most likely will), but not in the same way.

Until we see the abilities, at this point the information is just that. And keep in mind, the reason that companies tend to be hesitant about releasing information is for this exact reason. The negative reaction to an unknown can be devastating. However, with FFXIV in it's current state, they really have nothing to lose by people not liking something they haven't seen yet.

I guess I am just saying take the ability list with a grain of salt, and wait to see where this ride goes.
But then again, I am of the mind-set that giving everyone everything is non-productive for everyone.

Leveling should take time. Abilities should not be shared between all. Each class should be better at something then any other job. Each job should be weaker at something then any other job. And there should be no one size fits all with gear. Or Diversity through focus.

Even now with all the changes that have been happening, how many Lancer's, Gladiators, or Marauders at level 50 do you see in anything other then Red Cobalt gear? It is a perfect example to a very serious problem in the game.

Then again, I am tired, and it's mentally my friday...
#100 Nov 23 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Default
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rfolkker wrote:

But the opposite to this is that when Scholar and blue mage were released in 11, there were quite a few complaints about them not having a place because the abilities were already there. The same was true of dancer and puppet master.

By trimming the abilities by classes, this gives them a better ability to offer more classes with a more diverse ability set. One thing that I would love to see out of this would be a mage class for each element. But I don't think they could work that in. If you could have a class that specialized in each element, then have some of their abilities be class specific, but their basic elemental attacks be cross class, the diversity would be extensive, but it would allow for a far greater specialization.

For now, we are looking at an early beta of a game, and, while many of the decisions are going to offend and/or upset, they had 2 choices really, call it quits, or redesign the game from the ground up. By redesigning the game, we are going to lose things we like, it is the cost of redesign.

Many of them may come back (and most likely will), but not in the same way.

Until we see the abilities, at this point the information is just that. And keep in mind, the reason that companies tend to be hesitant about releasing information is for this exact reason. The negative reaction to an unknown can be devastating. However, with FFXIV in it's current state, they really have nothing to lose by people not liking something they haven't seen yet.

I guess I am just saying take the ability list with a grain of salt, and wait to see where this ride goes.
But then again, I am of the mind-set that giving everyone everything is non-productive for everyone.

Leveling should take time. Abilities should not be shared between all. Each class should be better at something then any other job. Each job should be weaker at something then any other job. And there should be no one size fits all with gear. Or Diversity through focus.

Even now with all the changes that have been happening, how many Lancer's, Gladiators, or Marauders at level 50 do you see in anything other then Red Cobalt gear? It is a perfect example to a very serious problem in the game.

Then again, I am tired, and it's mentally my friday...


I agree....

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#101 Nov 23 2011 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:

I agree....


As do I. I was trying to make the same points in a post I never posted, but you put it better than I could.
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