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Class Reforms & Action Lists (11/18/2011)Follow

#152 Nov 30 2011 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
For Slow: You can win without.


Yeah, who needed a low-cost spell that resulted in a ~65% melee damage mitigation, anyway? Smiley: rolleyes


Please don't misinterpret, I was only saying that win without the use is possible. As for the 65% mitigation that's questionable. I tank Ifrit on MRD and GLA and with it or not i have never seen much difference. I only see slow on Ifrit 1 in 5 fights, and even then only for a single duration.

Ostia wrote:
Everything is a EQ clone since EQ was release.... Just saying


This... play EQ, and see that 90% of WoW got ripped off, of EQ. WoW just made it simpler by removing the 2day long raids. EQ made today's elitists with a back bone, WoW made the elitists with only hot air.
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#153 Nov 30 2011 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Please don't misinterpret, I was only saying that win without the use is possible. As for the 65% mitigation that's questionable. I tank Ifrit on MRD and GLA and with it or not i have never seen much difference.


I was referring to the recent tests that Kaede (I think) posted on BG. He found that slow reduced the auto-attack speed of level 1 and level 15 monsters to an equal degree of ~65%. Now, because he never tested the spell on high-level targets, it may be true that its effects are considerably tapered off and that slow is much less useful during times when, well, it would otherwise actually be needed.
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#154 Nov 30 2011 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
Please don't misinterpret, I was only saying that win without the use is possible. As for the 65% mitigation that's questionable. I tank Ifrit on MRD and GLA and with it or not i have never seen much difference.


I was referring to the recent tests that Kaede (I think) posted on BG. He found that slow reduced the auto-attack speed of level 1 and level 15 monsters to an equal degree of ~65%. Now, because he never tested the spell on high-level targets, it may be true that its effects are considerably tapered off and that slow is much less useful during times when, well, it would otherwise actually be needed.


Questionable, but it would make sens if you do the math. IF lets say Ifrit swings every 5 seconds, slow would add 2.6 seconds per swipe, making the delay between swipe's 7.6 seconds. This would make slow a must if Ifrit did more normal swipe's to build TP to WS. However this is just me eye balling it, he uses his single/frontal cone WS's regardless of TP. I have taken the flame breath and the WS swipe back to back meaning he regenerates TP. With out derailing this, yes it will be a little odd for the conventional skills to go away, so here's hoping the new batch can take the heat.
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#155 Nov 30 2011 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Questionable, but it would make sens if you do the math. IF lets say Ifrit swings every 5 seconds, slow would add 2.6 seconds per swipe, making the delay between swipe's 7.6 seconds. This would make slow a must if Ifrit did more normal swipe's to build TP to WS. However this is just me eye balling it, he uses his single/frontal cone WS's regardless of TP. I have taken the flame breath and the WS swipe back to back meaning he regenerates TP. With out derailing this, yes it will be a little odd for the conventional skills to go away, so here's hoping the new batch can take the heat.


Yeah, I'm waiting for the next ability SE announces:

Deals earth damage to the target and lowers target's resistance to earth. Moderately heals all party members within range and removes one enfeebling effect.
Additional effect: slow

Since that seems to be where they're taking it. XD
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#156 Nov 30 2011 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
Questionable, but it would make sens if you do the math. IF lets say Ifrit swings every 5 seconds, slow would add 2.6 seconds per swipe, making the delay between swipe's 7.6 seconds. This would make slow a must if Ifrit did more normal swipe's to build TP to WS. However this is just me eye balling it, he uses his single/frontal cone WS's regardless of TP. I have taken the flame breath and the WS swipe back to back meaning he regenerates TP. With out derailing this, yes it will be a little odd for the conventional skills to go away, so here's hoping the new batch can take the heat.


Yeah, I'm waiting for the next ability SE announces:

Deals earth damage to the target and lowers target's resistance to earth. Moderately heals all party members within range and removes one enfeebling effect.
Additional effect: slow

Since that seems to be where they're taking it. XD


THM needs Bad Breath: Cone Attack that inflicts Slow, Poison, Silence, Paralyze, Weight, Bind and Blind at 50MP cost and Extremely Bad Breath: Instant K.O. to targets within range at all mp cost and 1/2 the issue is solved.

Edited, Nov 30th 2011 3:25pm by TwiddleDee
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#157 Nov 30 2011 at 7:44 PM Rating: Decent
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TwiddleDee wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
For Slow: You can win without.


Yeah, who needed a low-cost spell that resulted in a ~65% melee damage mitigation, anyway? Smiley: rolleyes


Please don't misinterpret, I was only saying that win without the use is possible. As for the 65% mitigation that's questionable. I tank Ifrit on MRD and GLA and with it or not i have never seen much difference. I only see slow on Ifrit 1 in 5 fights, and even then only for a single duration.

Ostia wrote:
Everything is a EQ clone since EQ was release.... Just saying


This... play EQ, and see that 90% of WoW got ripped off, of EQ. WoW just made it simpler by removing the 2day long raids. EQ made today's elitists with a back bone, WoW made the elitists with only hot air.


Well the same could be said for FFXI wish came directly after EQ and before Wow. Wow did streamlined what EQ was doing, and built upon it, where as FFXI just copied it, and did the same formula while making Final Fantasy version of EQ.
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#158 Nov 30 2011 at 8:46 PM Rating: Good
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Coyohma wrote:
Simple, PvP, Casual, Western.

Why is "western" bad?


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#159 Nov 30 2011 at 9:04 PM Rating: Good
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Almalexia wrote:
Coyohma wrote:
Simple, PvP, Casual, Western.

Why is "western" bad?




Western style character art is bad, there is a reason why GW2 uses generic-Gorean-character-generator because it looks better.
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#160 Nov 30 2011 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
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Almalexia wrote:
Coyohma wrote:
Simple, PvP, Casual, Western.

Why is "western" bad?

I never said it was bad, just putting words to the sentiments that are out there. Or at least mine. If I were telling myself of two years ago the direction the game was headed, those are the words I would choose.

Personally it's not what I expect from Final Fantasy, and I don't think it's what most people would have expected.. So it'll be interesting to see who ends up playing 2.0. How many loyal XI & XIV fans will they lose versus how many new gamers they pull in.
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#161 Dec 01 2011 at 3:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Every time one of you say something about WoW clone this or that. I stab someone in the eye. For the sake of my criminal record and corneas everywhere. Stop it.
#162 Dec 01 2011 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Jetterbobby wrote:
Every time one of you say something about WoW clone this or that. I stab someone in the eye. For the sake of my criminal record and corneas everywhere. Stop it.


Well mandating silence about it equally bad; the influence shows itself everywhere and it's impossible to deny in certain cases, plus the discussion allows us to highlight flaws in other games' designs as well as meditate on what could/should have been instead.
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#163 Dec 01 2011 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Well the same could be said for FFXI which came directly after EQ and before WoW. WoW did streamline what EQ was doing, and built upon it, whereas FFXI just copied it, and used the same formula while making a Final Fantasy version of EQ.
This is something few people are willing to recognize, it seems. Doesn't make it any less true.

Square-Enix copied EQ when making FFXI. The only thing it was technically missing was The Sleeper, though I guess that world event with the walking trees could in part count as that.

Quote:
Western style character art is bad, there is a reason why GW2 uses generic-Gorean-character-generator because it looks better.
I thought the discussion was about combat systems for the classes, not how they looked. Either way, the use of the word Western is improper in this context. Not to mention some of those labels can be seen as condescending.
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#164 Dec 02 2011 at 12:07 AM Rating: Decent
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There are some lines of logic I simply cannot follow with these advanced classes.

Conjurer -> White Mage
Okay, fine... I can live with that, given that we get Curaga and other Cure spells.

Thaumaturge -> Black Mage
Wait, what? THM gets Scourge and Banish. Conjurer gets Fire, Blizzard, Stone, Water, Thunder, Aero. They also get the 'AM's Flare, Quake etc. What part of Thaumaturge says "Black Mage" to you? If anything, their spell list more closely resembles that of a Dark Knight from FFXIV nut minus the nukes.

I realise they typically deal more damage with their small nuke selection, but considering that the lion's share of Black Magey skills aren't native to their class, my brain is having a hard time working out the logic behind this one. My guess is they had to give it away for no other reason than the fact Conjurer would get two advanced classes branching off.

Archer -> Bard
... do I even need to point out how unusual that one is? Damage dealer to support class in one swoop. Surely Ranger would've made a more likely choice for an advanced class, though one does question how they would expand upon Archer's already strong ranged abilities.

This isn't a complaint post, but it does strike me as an unusual combination to group these abilities in. The post is written in a manner which implies that you'll need the basic class (ie ARC, CNJ) to unlock the advanced ones.

In other news, there are some cool abilities listed. Though I do wonder if they're going to completely alter the spell lists for Conjurer and Thaumaturge to give THM all the nukes. I just hope CNJ is compensated enough for the loss.
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#165 Dec 02 2011 at 5:09 AM Rating: Good
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Coyohma wrote:
Almalexia wrote:
Coyohma wrote:
Simple, PvP, Casual, Western.

Why is "western" bad?

I never said it was bad, just putting words to the sentiments that are out there. Or at least mine. If I were telling myself of two years ago the direction the game was headed, those are the words I would choose.

All right.

What do you mean by "western," then, if it isn't simplicity, focus on PvP or casual MMO design?

I suppose I should have asked that instead. And I'm surprised no one else has yet; makes me think I'm out of the loop.


Edited, Dec 2nd 2011 6:10am by Almalexia
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#166 Dec 02 2011 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
... SE has already "looked towards WoW" for things like showing enemy levels and aggro status, inventory management, spell scaling, quest givers, macro palette, ability distribution, mini-map display, character jumping, silly travel mounts, dungeon finders, and raid difficulty settings; ...
pixelpop wrote:
mages are being so dumbed down and simplistic it makes me want to level a melee class- which ive never done before.
i dont care about not having all 6 elements... but is it necessary to focus fire on being our main nuke? how western generic...

That's some of it.. But the most obvious example has to be the UI they've shown for 2.0. It's a major step towards what the west has grown accustomed to for an MMO.

Not to mention all the changes in verbiage. We're getting "raids." We don't just have chocobos - they're "mounts." They even changed updates or version updates to "patches."

I'm sure there are other things to point out, but I'm too in need of sleep to think anymore on it.
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#167 Dec 02 2011 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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Glitterhands wrote:
Thaumaturge -> Black Mage
Wait, what? THM gets Scourge and Banish. Conjurer gets Fire, Blizzard, Stone, Water, Thunder, Aero. They also get the 'AM's Flare, Quake etc. What part of Thaumaturge says "Black Mage" to you? If anything, their spell list more closely resembles that of a Dark Knight from FFXIV nut minus the nukes.


Read this and come back to the table. You seem to have skipped the link on the OP. Those are the changes that will be taking affect soon, maybe it will make more sens after you follow this link. Jumping in a conversation clueless just looks silly.
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#168 Dec 02 2011 at 9:48 AM Rating: Default
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Glitterhands wrote:
Archer -> Bard
... do I even need to point out how unusual that one is? Damage dealer to support class in one swoop. Surely Ranger would've made a more likely choice for an advanced class, though one does question how they would expand upon Archer's already strong ranged abilities.


Archer to Bard isn't unusual in an RPG sense, the only unusual element about it as you pointed out is the pairing of what we're typically use to as a heavy damage dealing class to a heavy support class.

We have to throw out all preconceived notions of class roles for this game. While I'm sure the team will mirror a lot of the fundamentals we saw in FFXI, there's nothing that requires them to stick to those same ideals.

If they wanted to make Bard the strongest DD in the game while delegating all support roles to Pugilist, then that's what we'd have.
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#169 Dec 08 2011 at 7:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Western style character art is bad, there is a reason why GW2 uses generic-Gorean-character-generator because it looks better.

No.


MMORPGs are either Korean or Western.

Western MMO's are the good ones.
FFXI is a western mmo developed by a Japanese company. Fact of life.
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