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[patch1.20] Patch 1.20 Notes Follow

#52 Dec 13 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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MrTalos wrote:
I guess my question becomes.. What does SE intend for FFXIV? It was bad enough when the question was is it solo or PT. Now we have solo, PT or PL. None of the 3 get along together well in a game.


I fully agree here SE needs to make up there mind. Solo is not a viable option, PT was ruined by PL*, and PL is the only alternative.

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#53 Dec 13 2011 at 12:46 PM Rating: Excellent
All of the things included in this patch are fixes that assume the game is functioning correctly.

It is not.

You have Party Play and you have End-Game content.

Party Play is non-existant. Until AFK PL is removed then this entire aspect of the game does not function correctly. You can add all the options you want to targeting or change class abilities or even give us new classes to level. So what? If players are not partying then these changes are useless.

End-Game content is minimal. There are currently two End-Game dungeons/fights and this patch will add a third. Do you think that a game can be succesful with just 3 End-Game dungeons? I do not. Personally, I do not find Ifrit to be entertaining. There is too much lag inherent in the game itself to make these intense battles flow smoothly enough to have a good time.

You cannot allow players to fast track to an End Game that can be completed in just a couple weeks. This game has turned into year-2 PSU where everyone is the highest level and they Log-in for a week or so each time a new event is released.

This does not make for a healthy, populated gameplay environment. Look at all the changes to Escort Missions. Does anyone care? Do YOU use those missions to Level up? Of course not, and if you tried, you would find you are the only one in the area. The fact is, a healthy MMO NEEDS regular EXP party play to be fun and entertaining while the game developers create a variety of End Game content.

I personally don't see how any amount of changes can fix the current state of the game. There is a reason that the population of the game continues to shrink. Many reasons, in fact. But the two that remain the most damaging are that regular EXP Party Play has been made obsolete (which limits the interest of casual players) and the End Game content is minimal (so the hardcore players have completed it already.)

I don't want to just come here to pooh-pooh on the new patch. But I can certainly state my opinion that this patch does very little to revitalize interst in the game for those who are still considering their stance on upcoming subscriptions.

In the end it's quite simple, either fix AFK PL'ing or the game will never recover.

Edited, Dec 13th 2011 1:49pm by SmashingtonWho
#54 Dec 13 2011 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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I am going to have to agree with everything SmashingtonWho just posted there...

I will be a hypocrite here, I had to level glad to 36 and I admit I got a PL. I had no interest in glad and was told that I was REQUIRED to have sentinel for Ifrit.

I think if (most) everyone didn't already have 50's in all the classes they want, and leveling wasn't so fast, and PL was gimped a bit more.... Combine all that with the new party seek and people would group up the way I would like. I love xp pt, I love merit pt in FFXI. Throw in more content in all level ranges and I would be a happy camper.

The level 15 dungeon was a great idea, but you level past it so quickly there is no reason to go...


Edited, Dec 13th 2011 2:04pm by Yelta
#55 Dec 13 2011 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
MrTalos wrote:
I guess my question becomes.. What does SE intend for FFXIV? It was bad enough when the question was is it solo or PT. Now we have solo, PT or PL. None of the 3 get along together well in a game.


It's pretty obvious that they intend for you to be able to level any way you like to. They all function (for the most part) independently of each other. Unless there is overcrowding in a camp, which isn't likely to be a case for XIV given the population, one doesn't have any affect on the next.

I'm still not certain why people feel that other players who are getting a PL somehow has an effect on their experience.

We really won't know until things get ironed out. I guess it will come down to how PTs rate when compared to PLs or Solo. If you can get the same experience solo w/o the issues being in a PT can bring then a lot of people would likely go solo and chat with their LS if they feel talkative. If you can get even better experience and be able to do chores around the house, watch a good movie, read a book, take a shower, make dinner, etc (those were exaggerations for the most part, btw) with a PL then a lot will likely go that path. PTs can be "hurt" the most by the other two.

If players are willing to slow down their leveling or deal with some of the inconveniences that PTs bring than maybe the 3 can exist together but I'm just not sure I see it happening.

Just chalk it up to "Hope for the best; plan for the worst"
#56 Dec 13 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
All of the things included in this patch are fixes that assume the game is functioning correctly.

It is not.


Perfectly said.... Most of the fixes in the patch do get countered punch for punch. At this point it's hard to even say 2 steps forward 2 steps back... At this point it just seems like the game is moving sideways rather then forward do to a wall blocking the progress forward. Am not sure if the development team in oblivious to the wall, or are they simply putting things of until the questionable 2.0.
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#57 Dec 13 2011 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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Anyone know why they have two different locations for the same npc?

Synthesis Rebeccah Eastern Thanalan, Golden Bazaar (38,19)
Gathering Rebeccah Eastern Thanalan, Golden Bazaar (37,19)
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#58 Dec 13 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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People need to stop acting like PL is rampant, like people are shouting in uldah every 5 minutes: "PL Party send tell for INVITE!" Wish is not the case at all, the people that get power level, are either in a LS or friends, is not like people are going out of their way to PL other people :/

SE job is to make levels 1-49 worthwhile, there is nothing to do in game, besides grind, grind, grind, you grind leves, you grind GC missions, you grind mobs, from lvl 1 to lvl 50, that is all you do, as long as the meat of the game is mindless grinding, people are gonna rather get a PL, than sit in a camp farming 24/7
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#59 Dec 13 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
People need to stop acting like PL is rampant, like people are shouting in uldah every 5 minutes: "PL Party send tell for INVITE!" Wish is not the case at all, the people that get power level, are either in a LS or friends, is not like people are going out of their way to PL other people :/

SE job is to make levels 1-49 worthwhile, there is nothing to do in game, besides grind, grind, grind, you grind leves, you grind GC missions, you grind mobs, from lvl 1 to lvl 50, that is all you do, as long as the meat of the game is mindless grinding, people are gonna rather get a PL, than sit in a camp farming 24/7

PL is rampant and they DO shout about PL parties on my server... And often times you get a normal XP party together and head out to a camp and start killing and someone announces their buddy is on their way to PL us Smiley: mad and half the party is like "yay!". So then my choices are stand there and be PL or head back to town hoping I can find another party that wants to play the game and do actual work for their XP.

However I do agree with your second paragraph. I love a good xp grind session myself but SE does have to make the leveling up worthwhile and give us some actual content to enjoy while we are gaining XP.
#60 Dec 13 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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Yelta wrote:
Ostia wrote:
People need to stop acting like PL is rampant, like people are shouting in uldah every 5 minutes: "PL Party send tell for INVITE!" Wish is not the case at all, the people that get power level, are either in a LS or friends, is not like people are going out of their way to PL other people :/

SE job is to make levels 1-49 worthwhile, there is nothing to do in game, besides grind, grind, grind, you grind leves, you grind GC missions, you grind mobs, from lvl 1 to lvl 50, that is all you do, as long as the meat of the game is mindless grinding, people are gonna rather get a PL, than sit in a camp farming 24/7

PL is rampant and they DO shout about PL parties on my server... And often times you get a normal XP party together and head out to a camp and start killing and someone announces their buddy is on their way to PL us Smiley: mad and half the party is like "yay!". So then my choices are stand there and be PL or head back to town hoping I can find another party that wants to play the game and do actual work for their XP.

However I do agree with your second paragraph. I love a good xp grind session myself but SE does have to make the leveling up worthwhile and give us some actual content to enjoy while we are gaining XP.


well i have not played in a month, so my opinion is from what i saw, and i never saw a PL shout, or stuff like that, but i did get PL once, in the lvl 15 dungeon, and it was not even a PL, the guy was lvl 28, and we where 15, but it was fun, we explored, wiped, wiped, kill mobs, wiped some more etc etc, it was the most fun i had in the game, because i was exploring and doing stuff besides sit in one camp and just zerg down mobs as they spawned.

Also i dont blame people that already have a 50, getting a friend to PL them another class, i mean after grinding once to 50, it really is no challenge to level again to 50, is more like a chore, so a lot of people getting PL, are friends or LS members getting that second or third class to 50.

Anyways until SE fixes the content problem, PL is gonna be one of the main sources to getting to level cap.
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#61 Dec 13 2011 at 6:37 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
well i have not played in a month, so my opinion is from what i saw, and i never saw a PL shout, or stuff like that, but i did get PL once, in the lvl 15 dungeon, and it was not even a PL, the guy was lvl 28, and we where 15, but it was fun, we explored, wiped, wiped, kill mobs, wiped some more etc etc, it was the most fun i had in the game, because i was exploring and doing stuff besides sit in one camp and just zerg down mobs as they spawned.

The kind of PL I am against is 6 people AFK while 1 person invites and kicks the level 50 MRD who aggros and kills a ton of mobs giving all the low level guys tons more xp per hour than any normal xp pt.

Wandering around a dungeon having a good time with a higher level player with you isn't really PL in my mind.


Edited, Dec 13th 2011 7:39pm by Yelta
#62 Dec 13 2011 at 6:40 PM Rating: Decent
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You guys are blind if you don't see a somewhat silent nerf to PL.

PL = (99% of the time) MRD tank/killer
MRD = Losing double tap storm's path = losing the 2-3 shot kills of the mob group.

Lose the MRD in your PL group's and your EXP drops like a mutha. I've tried many variations. There's already a thread of people whining in the official forums, i think 1370+ replies already about fixing it. Some people want this:

"Make power leveling give the same exp as a regular 8 man party"... Seriously. It wouldn't be power leveling >.>

1) 8-man party ( IF IF IF you can get one, get's around 120k/hour, pre-40)
2) PL party gets about 180-250k(if your good) per hour (pre-40)

Yes once you hit your 40's you gain mad exp, but your within 10 levels of the people so who gives a rats *** if your 3 level 50's and rest are in 40's are doing the natalan wolf camp? It's a "regular" party at that point, within a definite design.

Come this patch, PL as we know it will drop off the map. There will still be PL's with mages and such, but it will be nowhere near what MRD soon once will have been.

Edited, Dec 13th 2011 4:41pm by Elionara
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#63 Dec 13 2011 at 8:12 PM Rating: Good
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Yelta wrote:
I will be a hypocrite here, I had to level glad to 36 and I admit I got a PL. I had no interest in glad and was told that I was REQUIRED to have sentinel for Ifrit.

I've seen people say this several times in relation to the PL subject, and I just don't think it really applies. It's perfectly fine to say you dislike or disagree with a legitimate facet of a game, but still engage in it. It would be hypocrisy if you were to say.. "I hate PL and would never do it," and then go do it lol.

Maybe you were being tongue-in-cheek, but oh well.

The powerleveling issue is just a sign of the times with XIV. They continue to want to give everyone everything, and they think people dislike grinding EXP. So, not only do they make the EXP rate incredibly high in parties, but they are OK with PLing - even border on advocating it in terms of "helping someone catch up."

Of course this is a dangerous (idiotic?) mindset to have when your "endgame" is just a few specks.. Specks that with each patch they obsolete, too (NMs, Dzemael, perhaps Ifrit now).
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#64 Dec 13 2011 at 8:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I have just returned to the game after a break of about a year. When I left, my highest job was level 23 (thm) and I was starting to struggle to level.

Having returned about 3 weeks ago I have gone from 23 to 44, with only 4 levels PL'd (33-37) and the game is much easier to solo. What is frustrating though is that since my 2 LS's no longer exist, I cant get a party so I have pretty much solod all the time. Currently, levelling solo takes about 4 hours per level so hopefully I will hit 50 in another 30 hours.

It is somewhat annoying to watch people hitting cap constantly in a day or twos play due to PL'ing so I think it should be fixed. If it was, everyone would have to party re-igniting the social aspects of the game. Right now, with lots of people being PL'd, it will destroy the community.

I really dont want to succumb and start shouting for a PL party in Uldah but I am getting so bored of soloing and once I have a job at 50, I really dont have the appetite to continuing playing for hours to gain levels when others can cheat and get there so quickly.
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#65 Dec 13 2011 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Solo is not a viable option, PT was ruined by PL*, and PL is the only alternative.

SmashingtonWho wrote:
Party Play is non-existant. Until AFK PL is removed then this entire aspect of the game does not function correctly.

Quote:
PTs can be "hurt" the most by the other two.

I keep seeing people posting that PL kills party play, but still no reason as to why it does. PL doesn't make party play any less of an option than it is now. It's not like mobs are tuned to expect a high level player killing them and are impossible for a normal group to kill.

If the reason is simply that PL is more efficient at exp gain then you could effectively say that party play kills solo play because it's faster. Would it also be fair for players who want solo play to ***** about groups because they don't get the same or better exp?

I keep seeing posts from people that lead me to believe that the only reason PL is 'broken' is because they are jealous. Although no one has come out and said it flat out, the sentiment is "I'm not ok with people having an easier time than I did when I started" and has nothing to do with any negative impact that PL has either directly or indirectly relating to party play. It's the same old 'I got my Maat's Cap pre abyssea' argument. Oh well I got my Maat's Cap pre SMN burn! Who really cares?

If this is incorrect, please feel free to point out exactly what it is about PL that breaks party play. If not, I'll continue thinking that you're just hating on people who didn't walk uphill both ways in the freezing cold.





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#66 Dec 13 2011 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
I look at it like this:

Soloing - For those who do not wish to partake in a group based leveling experience.
Partying - For those who enjoy leveling with others or wish to try and maximize leveling efficiency.
PLing - For those who have no desire to play a job legitimately and only need an ability from it for another class. Also for those who wish to take the path of least resistance to reach their goal, regardless of the fact that it may or may not gimp their ability to perform once reaching said goal.

Personally I have taken a PL for THM just to get a couple levels to get me up to 40 so I could grab a legitimate stronghold PT. I also took a PL to get my CNJ where it currently is (like level 10-37 I believe). I had no desire to play CNJ but wanted some stuff for THM. Besides that I am against leveling every class 1-50 using a PL-ed method. I feel a person is more in touch with their job and can perform better if they solo/party the job from 1-50.

You may feel different, that's fine, but I think the game would be better off with only a FFXI-style PLing system available. (PL can heal and buff PT but cannot interact with mob in any way, outside of pulling enmity by cure bombing.) This meant the party still had to be there, and they still had to kill everything, but someone could help keep them alive. THAT is legitimate PLing in my book. Anything else is just a bit ridiculous.
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#67 Dec 13 2011 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
If this is incorrect, please feel free to point out exactly what it is about PL that breaks party play. If not, I'll continue thinking that you're just hating on people who didn't walk uphill both ways in the freezing cold.

It has undermined the large pool of players that normally would gravitate towards more conventional partying. For the most part now, those players want to level via PL.. There's little interest in partying without PL, so for someone who wants to play that way they're out of luck.

To expand more on what you had to say.. Soloing for EXP is seen as more niche, but a legitimate way to earn EXP. Powerleveling has not only taken control of the majority here, but the way it is in XIV is seen as lame, broken, and unrewarding.

Edited, Dec 13th 2011 11:11pm by Coyohma
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#68 Dec 13 2011 at 10:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I keep seeing people posting that PL kills party play, but still no reason as to why it does. PL doesn't make party play any less of an option than it is now.


With solo, one trades convenience for exp/hour.
With parties, one trades exp/hour for convenience.
With PLs, one gets unparalleled exp/hour and doesn't even face the minor inconveniences associated with solo.

Seems balanced to me. >_>

Really, though, I think that it comes down to the opinion that one should not be able to excel at an MMORPG by almost not even playing it. Not only are PLs remarkably out of place when considering the notion of balance (see above), they gradually become a superior alternative the longer they're allowed to persist. Just like the Colibri that populated FFXI's merit parties for so long, making use of a PL in FFXIV will become the norm by virtue of the fact that you'd be wasting a huge amount of your time, by comparison, by not doing it. The major difference between the two examples, however, is that the former involves a group of people playing together and the latter involves a group of people leeching.

That fact that there are more difficult and even more monotonous ways to level does not make those other ways "alternatives," it makes them inferiors. At this point, powerleveling is FFXIV's Colibri; parties are FFXIV's fifteen-level-above-cap Basilisks; and soloing... well, soloing is like FFXIV's equivalent of fighting groups of "too weak to be worthwhile" for the ones that eventually respawn as "easy prey."

We can think of a strange line. Everybody is waiting in this line, with its mysterious goals at the front, and then a few people start to step out of line and simply walk to the front. At first, some people question this, but gradually more and more people realize that there's no rule saying that anyone needs to wait in that line - you can just go right to the front if you wish! Well if that's the case, if it's totally fine to do this, then I'd be an idiot to continue to wait in that line. In fact, that line may as well not exist anymore if I, and everyone else, can get to the front much more quickly and without any repercussions through a much easier method.

I liked where you were going earlier when you said that SE needs to make parties actually engaging, but I think we both know that many individuals will just consider skipping engaging parties one more cost to the extremely efficient leveling that a powerlevel provides.


Edited, Dec 13th 2011 11:37pm by KaneKitty
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#69 Dec 13 2011 at 10:22 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I keep seeing people posting that PL kills party play, but still no reason as to why it does. PL doesn't make party play any less of an option than it is now.


With solo, one trades convenience for exp/hour.
With parties, one exp/hour for convenience.
With PLs, one gets unparalleled exp/hour and doesn't even face the minor inconveniences associated with solo.

Seems balanced to me. >_>

Really, though, I think that it comes down to the opinion that one should not be able to excel at an MMORPG by almost not even playing it. Not only are PLs remarkably out of place when considering the notion of balance (see above), they gradually become a superior alternative the longer they're allowed to persist. Just like the Colibri that populated FFXI's merit parties for so long, making use of a PL in FFXIV will become the norm by virtue of the fact that you'd be wasting a huge amount of your time, by comparison, by not doing it. The major difference between the two examples, however, is that the former involves a group of people playing together and the latter involves a group of people leeching.

That fact that there are more difficult and even more monotonous ways to level does not make those other ways "alternatives," it makes them inferiors. At this point, powerleveling is FFXIV's Colibri; parties are FFXIV's fifteen-level-above-cap Basilisks; and soloing... well, soloing is like FFXIV's equivalent of fighting groups of "too weak to be worthwhile" for the ones that eventually respawn as "easy prey."

We can think of a strange line. Everybody is waiting in this line, with its mysterious goals at the front, and then a few people start to step out of line and simply walk to the front. At first, some people question this, but gradually more and more people realize that there's no rule saying that anyone needs to wait in that line - you can just go right to the front if you wish! Well if that's the case, if it's totally fine to do this, then I'd be an idiot to continue to wait in that line. In fact, that line may as well not exist anymore if I, and everyone else, can get to the front much more quickly and without any repercussions through a much easier method.

I liked where you were going earlier when you said that SE needs to make parties actually engaging, but I think we both know that many individuals will just consider skipping engaging parties one more cost to the extremely efficient leveling that a powerlevel provides.



But you are right, there is no rule that say's you have to play the game a certain way, if they want to go ahead and skip the boring parts of the game, to rush to level cap, and grind ifrit and stuff, well can you really blame them ? and how does it affect anybody, we all play the game for our own little pleasure, and the excuse of "People will not learn their class etc etc." will not work, bad players will be bad regardless of leveling traditionally or being PL, and either way, the skill cap of end game content in this game is so low, that it really does not meters anyways, all you have to do is taunt/keep aggro, zerg a boss, or stand and cast till your hands go numb :/

There is really very to none engaging content in this game, holds are a joke, is just a big Tank&Spank, ifrit is the only challenge and even that is not a real challenge, if you are below cap, you really have story missions to look foward too, and they are way to far and between to be a carrot in the stick, also take in consideration, that at lower levels, there is no partying, there is no fresh blood to party with, and people who are leveling up other classes, would rather solo, than risk partying with some noob <.<
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#70 Dec 14 2011 at 5:54 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I keep seeing people posting that PL kills party play, but still no reason as to why it does. PL doesn't make party play any less of an option than it is now.


With solo, one trades convenience for exp/hour.
With parties, one trades exp/hour for convenience.
With PLs, one gets unparalleled exp/hour and doesn't even face the minor inconveniences associated with solo.

Seems balanced to me. >_>


I think you mixed it up a bit, but I understand what you mean. However, it really isn't supposed to be balanced nor does it need to be. If we wanted it balanced they could just reinstate fatigue. Regardless of which way you prefer leveling, once you get to x thousand exp... BAM! Brick wall. Problem solved?
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#71 Dec 14 2011 at 7:54 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

I keep seeing people posting that PL kills party play, but still no reason as to why it does. PL doesn't make party play any less of an option than it is now. It's not like mobs are tuned to expect a high level player killing them and are impossible for a normal group to kill.

There are two types of people who do not like PLing. Those who find it offensive (and I have found typically do it anyways), and those who are either not interested (such as myself), but each time we find a party right now, It's PL or nothing. There is nothing directly wrong with PL, so people gain exp faster than in a party, and people in a party gain exp faster than solo...

So, now comes the real problem with power leveling. People do consider themselves based on their ability to keep up with the curve. And lets face it, in an MMO it's never about what you want to do, it's about what's efficient. It built up in Final Fantasy 11 until everyone was wearing Scorpion Harnesses and O-Hats. And now, the same is true for Cobalt armor. Literally, the week after the notice about the gear dying changes, I made a new set of undyed cobalt armor, and not two days later got questioned about why I wasn't wearing red gear (even though I had a red set for quite some time).

People take pride in efficiency. And effectiveness. The same goes for things like the Ifrit fight. The irony is I still haven't won that one... But, oh well, maybe after the update.

But than again, people get offended at this game for everything, so it really doesn't matter. I will be happy to play though the dark time, and hope the addition of the billing reduces the number of unhappy people playing it.
#72 Dec 14 2011 at 8:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Ok a miss mash of things here, and a little bit of frustration.

All PL related

I run into a different problem. I get into a grind group and every ones gear is gimp and we all wipe or we need to kill extremely slow... Also people do not know how to play their jobs. I can never sell any low end items anymore because nobody buys them. Most of my LS I can’t stand playing with because they all got PL and suck. They think they are good because they are 50, and they refuse to look at threads on how to play there job.
#73 Dec 14 2011 at 9:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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LilWombat wrote:
Ok a miss mash of things here, and a little bit of frustration.

All PL related

I run into a different problem. I get into a grind group and every ones gear is gimp and we all wipe or we need to kill extremely slow... Also people do not know how to play their jobs. I can never sell any low end items anymore because nobody buys them. Most of my LS I can’t stand playing with because they all got PL and suck. They think they are good because they are 50, and they refuse to look at threads on how to play there job.


Gear doesn't matter too much so far in game if your decent at the job. If your not decent at the job you will suck, period.

We killed Ifrit in swimsuits and pumpkin masks. We added santa boots to complete the ensemble :) Gonna do it again this weekend and fraps it (well... after we relearn our jobs at patch lol); it's quite funny lol
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Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

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#74 Dec 14 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Elionara wrote:
LilWombat wrote:
Ok a miss mash of things here, and a little bit of frustration.

All PL related

I run into a different problem. I get into a grind group and every ones gear is gimp and we all wipe or we need to kill extremely slow... Also people do not know how to play their jobs. I can never sell any low end items anymore because nobody buys them. Most of my LS I can’t stand playing with because they all got PL and suck. They think they are good because they are 50, and they refuse to look at threads on how to play there job.


Gear doesn't matter too much so far in game if your decent at the job. If your not decent at the job you will suck, period.

We killed Ifrit in swimsuits and pumpkin masks. We added santa boots to complete the ensemble :) Gonna do it again this weekend and fraps it (well... after we relearn our jobs at patch lol); it's quite funny lol


But that goes to what the person was saying. In Ifrit, it's all about the timing. And it's level 50. If you go into a party right now at level 20 with damaged or underleveled gear, you will either do no damage, or get destroyed, or both.

If you have ever been in a party with a lancer with a broken weapon you know what this feels like. They hit for less then a con doing nothing but melee attacks. Fights are painful, and it doesn't even seem worth it to try.

Or as another example, a Gla in full onion gear at 20... Again, painful, mage is spamming cure, hate is everywhere, and if you are group fighting it just is a cluster of death.

I have only been in a couple of parties since the start of the retooling, but outside of linkshell parties at least one person is always horribly under-geared.

I even went as far as starting to craft low level (20-30) gear, and putting it on my retainer and in my bazaar, and, well, I can sell Bloodthirst 3 and 4 materia, Cobalt and Mythril plate, but I can't for the life of me sell any level 20-30 gear. It sits there for days, only to find out that there are 2 or 3 people with a lower price than me again, so I drop the price, and continue to do that for a week just to sell 1-2 items.

The mentality seems to be that if you are only going to spend a day at those levels, why bother buying the gear. It really seems to be a lot less about gear availability, and more about people not being that level for long...

But, that's just my jaded view.
#75 Dec 14 2011 at 12:28 PM Rating: Excellent
FilthMcNasty wrote:

If this is incorrect, please feel free to point out exactly what it is about PL that breaks party play.


Let's say you want to start a party in FFXIV.

You already have low population. Now subtract from that the players who have all their jobs to 50 already (Some due to PL, some were all 50's before PL was implemented.) Now subtract from that pool those players who are not at all interested in regular parties because PL is so much faster.

There are not 8 players remaining on your server to form a party.

Even if you hit rare fluke and did get a party together, it won't be long before one of the members says "I got a PL coming!" About half the party is ecstatic. What do you do in this situation? Leave the party? Go ahead and let them PL? Do you offer to take you turn doing the killing, or the invite/ousting?

In this way, the availability of PL'ing dilutes the pool of available players wanting to enjoy regular EXP parties below the minimum acceptable threshold.

AFK PL'ing is completely unacceptable in any game. Your watching netflix as you level-up? Reading a book? Why even bother playing?

Are you trying to get abilities you need from other classes? For what? So you can fight Ifrit? Are you preparing for the Dark Moogle? How long can you enjoy these fights (if you enjoy them at all)? A week? A month? Until you get all the gear you want? Gear for what? For new Eng-Game fights that will eek out of SE at the apprent rate of one every 3-6 months?

There is a giant wealth of content that I personally enjoy in simply leveling up classes. I am the kind of guy that gets to the End-Game then starts a new character because I prefer leveling up. SE's answer to mediocre party battles is not to improve them but simply to skip them.

For me, and others of the same mind, SE is sending a loud and clear message that my favorite part of the game is not worthy of attention. If SE doesn't want me to enjoy regular EXP parties, and specifically prevents it from being feasible, then they will get exactly what they want. I won't even try to form a regular EXP party (at least not after a dozen failures.)

It's really too bad that regular party play was so mediocre that at least half of the remaining game population does not mind at all that it has become obsolete.
#76 Dec 14 2011 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:

If this is incorrect, please feel free to point out exactly what it is about PL that breaks party play.


Let's say you want to start a party in FFXIV.

You already have low population. Now subtract from that the players who have all their jobs to 50 already (Some due to PL, some were all 50's before PL was implemented.) Now subtract from that pool those players who are not at all interested in regular parties because PL is so much faster.

There are not 8 players remaining on your server to form a party.

Even if you hit rare fluke and did get a party together, it won't be long before one of the members says "I got a PL coming!" About half the party is ecstatic. What do you do in this situation? Leave the party? Go ahead and let them PL? Do you offer to take you turn doing the killing, or the invite/ousting?

In this way, the availability of PL'ing dilutes the pool of available players wanting to enjoy regular EXP parties below the minimum acceptable threshold.

AFK PL'ing is completely unacceptable in any game. Your watching netflix as you level-up? Reading a book? Why even bother playing?

Are you trying to get abilities you need from other classes? For what? So you can fight Ifrit? Are you preparing for the Dark Moogle? How long can you enjoy these fights (if you enjoy them at all)? A week? A month? Until you get all the gear you want? Gear for what? For new Eng-Game fights that will eek out of SE at the apprent rate of one every 3-6 months?

There is a giant wealth of content that I personally enjoy in simply leveling up classes. I am the kind of guy that gets to the End-Game then starts a new character because I prefer leveling up. SE's answer to mediocre party battles is not to improve them but simply to skip them.

For me, and others of the same mind, SE is sending a loud and clear message that my favorite part of the game is not worthy of attention. If SE doesn't want me to enjoy regular EXP parties, and specifically prevents it from being feasible, then they will get exactly what they want. I won't even try to form a regular EXP party (at least not after a dozen failures.)

It's really too bad that regular party play was so mediocre that at least half of the remaining game population does not mind at all that it has become obsolete.


I get what you're saying, but its all theoretical. What we know, is that people who are PLing do not want to party for the fun of it. If PLing was not an option, they may solo, they may party, or they may have no interest in the game at all. I still think that if partying for exp was fun and enjoyable, people would do it. But people still see it as a boring means to an end.
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#77 Dec 14 2011 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
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Well, all I have to say is that I started The Old Republic yesterday, and I was more involved, immersed in its story and gameplay from the first quests and cutscenes than I was in the entire time I ever attemped to play FFXIV.

Why play a game that doesn't even need to be played? That's ridiculous.
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#78 Dec 14 2011 at 2:16 PM Rating: Default
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hexaemeron wrote:
Well, all I have to say is that I started The Old Republic yesterday, and I was more involved, immersed in its story and gameplay from the first quests and cutscenes than I was in the entire time I ever attemped to play FFXIV.

Why play a game that doesn't even need to be played? That's ridiculous.


Better enjoy it while you can then. You'll be up to your armpits in RMT in 6days, and BioWare has a tendency to start a story strong but drop the ball not long after the opening. Honestly my expectations of SWTOR are 5/10 from what I have seen, even that's generous.
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#79 Dec 14 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
Well, all I have to say is that I started The Old Republic yesterday, and I was more involved, immersed in its story and gameplay from the first quests and cutscenes than I was in the entire time I ever attemped to play FFXIV.

Why play a game that doesn't even need to be played? That's ridiculous.


Better enjoy it while you can then. You'll be up to your armpits in RMT in 6days, and BioWare has a tendency to start a story strong but drop the ball not long after the opening. Honestly my expectations of SWTOR are 5/10 from what I have seen, even that's generous.


Lmao! RMT ? Really ? That's your concern ? Well thank good it worked for SE to go out of their way to battle RMT in FFXIV the game is a smash success because of it.....

Oh Wait! It is not, and every avenue that SE went and made it difficult for RMT, blew in their face, meanwhile every single game, that just accepted the fact that RMT will occur even if they spent 100% of their resources to battle it, is doing fine in comparison, Wow is still 10 million subs strong, Rift is doing fine, Swotor(The game you gave a 5/10) has 2 million pre-orders, and their forums are full of QQ from people that want to be playing right now, instead of waiting until the 20th, and even tho i would agree that BioWare at times drops the ball with their story telling (DA2) it cannot be worse than the story here, where it is just, cut off not even before reaching half point.

Seriously how can you give a 5 out of 10 to a game that on its first day of early access has 10 times more players than this game has after a year of release, a game that has outsold on pre orders alone this game by 1.2 million copy's to date, a game that just out of beta, you know more about the lore and characters than you do about FFXIV after a year of constant patches and additions, that is just hating right there <.<

This game has it's selling points, pretty graphics, and well that's about it right now, but if you gave 5/10 to swotor, i'm really interested in knowing what you would score FFXIV.
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#80 Dec 14 2011 at 4:27 PM Rating: Excellent
Ostia wrote:
stuff

Not to interject with my personal opinion, but someone mentioned to me that SWTOR felt a lot like WoW. So I suppose someone who didn't like WoW or games that had a WoW feel to it, might not like SWTOR, and people that liked WoW and WoW style games would prob like SWTOR. Now I haven't tried SWTOR yet, and I might if I get the opportunity to mess around with it on a friends account (I just don't have the time to commit to another game atm) so obviously this is third-hand information, and should be taken with a grain of salt. Now as far as the 2 million pre-orders...it IS Star Wars after all. I know there are plenty of people out there that will probably buy two copies of the game just to keep one sealed and in Mint condition for their 'collection'. Hehe.
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#81 Dec 14 2011 at 4:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
I know there are plenty of people out there that will probably buy two copies of the game just to keep one sealed and in Mint condition for their 'collection'. Hehe.


I heard that George Lucas is buying an extra copy just to rest his neck-beard on it.
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#82 Dec 14 2011 at 5:09 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
but if you gave 5/10 to swotor, i'm really interested in knowing what you would score FFXIV.


Not everyone enjoys the same thing in MMORPGs; I played in the SWTOR beta and I'd give it a similar score of 5/10. Not because the game is bad (it's not), or because it won't sell many copies or have a large playerbase (it will), but simply because I'm sick and tired of that completely overused MMORPG style and I have zero interest subscribing to and playing what basically I consider the same MMO mechanics over and over again.

I'm not saying FFXIV is perfect, far from it, but it'll keep my attention far longer than any other new MMORPG that comes out so long as it's not like all the recent online RPGs we've been inundated with. I simply don't like quest-based leveling, twitch-based abilities necessitating extensive hotbars and ability action icon placement, and an emphasis on endgame gear allocation over character level progression. I'd rather spend months doing an exp grind with other players to reach a level goal as compared to hitting endgame within a week if not days and spending months running dungeons over and over again hoping to see items drop off the dungeon boss.

That's the MMORPG style I'm looking for and why games like SWTOR do not appeal to me. I very well understand that FFXIV may not be the game for me when 2.0 rolls around, and that's complelty fine so long as there are people who do enjoy it. But right now it's the only one that's doing something different.

Edited, Dec 14th 2011 6:30pm by Whales
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#83 Dec 14 2011 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Whales wrote:
Not everyone enjoys the same thing in MMORPGs; I played in the SWOTR beta and I'd give it a similar score of 5/10. Not because the game is bad (it's not), or because it won't sell many copies or have a large playerbase (it will), but simply because I'm sick and tired of that completely overused MMORPG style and I have zero interest subscribing to and playing what basically I consider the same MMO mechanics over and over again.


This, SWTOR sold 2mil per-orders so what? Rift, WoW i could barely stand them for 2 months before closing down my account. Run and gum MMO's i have zero interest in, the story is what i am interested in. As long as SE can provide a compelling story like CoP, RotZ, ToAH, WotG, exe in XIV like they did in XI I'll be happy.
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#84 Dec 14 2011 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok let me see if i understand this, Swotor in the view of two of you gets a 5/10 because it uses the same old mechanics that have been used time and time again in MMORGP'S, yet all those mechanics are in FFXIV, wish is the part i don't Get.
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#85 Dec 14 2011 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
Ok let me see if i understand this, Swotor in the view of two of you gets a 5/10 because it uses the same old mechanics that have been used time and time again in MMORGP'S, yet all those mechanics are in FFXIV, wish is the part i don't Get.


It's not that i can't explain to you that i gave it 5/10, it's more along the lines that if you are unable to see the reason, the explanation will make no sens. To rate a game properly you need to look beyond the game play and mechanics.
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#86 Dec 14 2011 at 6:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
yet all those mechanics are in FFXIV, wish is the part i don't Get.


They really aren't though, especially as a core aspect of the game.

If you look at the general mechanics and playstyle of World of Warcraft, Rift, SWTOR and Lord of the Rings Online, among others, there's some fundamental differences that stand out. Now I completely admit that FFXIV doesn't do as much of this as I'd like for an MMORPG and the slight trend toward endgame participation over leveling parties does concern me, but the fact of the matter remains that you would never begin to consider forming a group in WoW, Rift or SWTOR just to find a camping spot, pull mobs and gain a few levels. FFXIV does do that, and some of us are here holding out for more continuation down that path.
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#87 Dec 14 2011 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I remember when I started playing FFXI way back, it took me ages to reach the level cap. Now I haven't played XIV since last year, but it seems that almost everyone's reached the cap fairly easily. Regardless of weather this is from PLing, or from any other exploit, I just can't believe that SE would allow this to happen. I'm no expert, and can only base this from my experience with FFXI, but my impression is that a large portion of the content in most MMOs, especially in their earlier years, is low and midlevel content. SE is struggling hard to provide enough content to keep up with how quickly we're finishing it, but their allowing the majority of the content in the game to become obsolete and useless. There is definitely nowhere near enough end game content to accommodate a fully level capped player-base now, and there won't be for a long time.

Before abbysia, it was never possible to level this fast in FFXI. Anytime anyone did find some way to, it was nerfed into the ground, with an emergency maintenance in many cases. FFXI was an amazing game, but if people were allowed to reach the level cap that quickly from the very start, the game would've sunk like a rock. That's my opinion at least.

Yoshi P. Seems to be pretty good at what he's doing for the most part, but I just can't imagine how he could possibly think it's OK to let everybody reach the level cap this quickly. Doing this alone is enough to kill the game, regardless of how many other improvements he makes. Their effectively shooting themselves in the foot.

And this is besides the inherent problems with allowing rampant PLing, which have been talked about here already. If PLing was the only acceptable way to level, but it still took a long time to reach the cap, than the game could still be functional [functional is a relative term in this case, as it would still be really ####ing stupid, but not nearly as damaging]. The bigger problem here is that they let everyone reach cap so quickly.

Personally, I think the only way to really fix this is to balance leveling so that it takes the proper amount time, and than to (wait for it......) reset the levels of everyones DoW and DoM classes. I know this is a drastic move. and I also know that this will never actually happen, but this is the only thing I can really see fixing this game. I don't think it would be so bad considering people would still have their DoH/L levels as well as all of their quests, missions, Items, and gill. They would just have to sit on their high level stuff till they could use it again, and they would actually have to all buy mid level gear this time around.

I haven't played since last November, but I've been keeping up with all the updates, and have been lurking the forums lately since I wanted to start playing again after this update, with the newly redone classes. I'm having my doubts now though, since it seems like there is no real leveling process, and that everyone is just sitting on their thumbs at the level cap.
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..... Seriously!!... How did they think this was OK!?
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#88 Dec 14 2011 at 7:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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If I may interject before things go out of hand, I would like to remind all of us of subjectivity vs objectivity. The numerical score system will always be subjective, and part of the reason why some reviewers don't use it anymore.

Edited, Dec 14th 2011 8:57pm by Enfid
#89 Dec 15 2011 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:

If this is incorrect, please feel free to point out exactly what it is about PL that breaks party play.


Let's say you want to start a party in FFXIV.

You already have low population. Now subtract from that the players who have all their jobs to 50 already (Some due to PL, some were all 50's before PL was implemented.) Now subtract from that pool those players who are not at all interested in regular parties because PL is so much faster.

There are not 8 players remaining on your server to form a party.

Even if you hit rare fluke and did get a party together, it won't be long before one of the members says "I got a PL coming!" About half the party is ecstatic. What do you do in this situation? Leave the party? Go ahead and let them PL? Do you offer to take you turn doing the killing, or the invite/ousting?

In this way, the availability of PL'ing dilutes the pool of available players wanting to enjoy regular EXP parties below the minimum acceptable threshold.

AFK PL'ing is completely unacceptable in any game. Your watching netflix as you level-up? Reading a book? Why even bother playing?

Are you trying to get abilities you need from other classes? For what? So you can fight Ifrit? Are you preparing for the Dark Moogle? How long can you enjoy these fights (if you enjoy them at all)? A week? A month? Until you get all the gear you want? Gear for what? For new Eng-Game fights that will eek out of SE at the apprent rate of one every 3-6 months?

There is a giant wealth of content that I personally enjoy in simply leveling up classes. I am the kind of guy that gets to the End-Game then starts a new character because I prefer leveling up. SE's answer to mediocre party battles is not to improve them but simply to skip them.

For me, and others of the same mind, SE is sending a loud and clear message that my favorite part of the game is not worthy of attention. If SE doesn't want me to enjoy regular EXP parties, and specifically prevents it from being feasible, then they will get exactly what they want. I won't even try to form a regular EXP party (at least not after a dozen failures.)

It's really too bad that regular party play was so mediocre that at least half of the remaining game population does not mind at all that it has become obsolete.


I get what you're saying, but its all theoretical. What we know, is that people who are PLing do not want to party for the fun of it. If PLing was not an option, they may solo, they may party, or they may have no interest in the game at all. I still think that if partying for exp was fun and enjoyable, people would do it. But people still see it as a boring means to an end.


I'll disagree with you on that. When you have a system like PLing, it's akin to not having to party at all, you get to bypass the leveling process. Now imagine a situation where you have a game in which you don't have to level at all, but with an option of randomly killing the same monster for hours for no reason. This is the scenerio that you get with PL, party play becomes obsolete, and no one will participate in it, because it is harder (more time consuming) than AFKing for x hours. It's like walking somewhere instead of driving, it's pleasant for a while, but then you realize you're choking on ********' exhaust fumes.I see the current PL mechanic as a form of cheating, one that I don't know why SE supports in their game.
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#90 Dec 15 2011 at 8:13 PM Rating: Good
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I don't like PL, it shouldn't exit in an mmorpg. I don't have to explain my reasons but I will briskly.
PL exist for players to bypass progression and that is all. Different players have different reasons to want ot bypass progression. This is an rpg, if you play an rpg and don't want to progress at a gradual intended rate. You have no business playing rpgs. It is SE job to make a choice to provide a worthwhile journey or quick destination, if that's the path they choose. To me personally, if SE can't provide a good pace of exciting journey. There should just be a purchase option to buy a lvl capped character. The end result of pl and buying a capped character is one in the same. You are not earning your progress in a natural state. PL is even worse for the game because it adds to the process by making it feel more tedious or chore like. PL doesn't just affect parties. It affects almost every part of the game in the PvE world and retaining subscribers over long durations.

Stamp it out, maim it, bury it in a hole 6 feet deep. If you want a character to reach endgame faster because your journey lacks substance. Boost xp on all content greatly. At least with insane xp and no pl. Players are earning their keep. But always keep group content a shade above solo. I said a shade! That doesn't mean make players solo xp slower than a turtle. If players look for loopholes like summoner burns in this game. Nerf that sh*t to high **** and any other loophole that allows bypassing progress. But create or adjust skills so that standard progress isn't punished by it. Xi can get away with abyssea aka 1 day level cap for one reason. It has 9 years of content!! I'd even argue that while not as diverse in variety as some other mmos in combat gamestyle varieties. It has more content than almost every other mmo. XIV while getting off the ground finally. Has yet to even put a dent on approaching that amount.

My response will prolly get me down scored on these forums or flamed. But that's how I feel and I will not sugar coat it. Personally, I prefer an epic journey and a good amount of destination content when I actually get there. People say they don't care about the journey. That's bs and you know it. I better not catch you leveling another class/job besides the first one. The endgame content will get there eventually, barring the game doesn't shut down. But if SE continues making players feel the journey is a chore. They may as well just have a buy capped character option for those that feel that way. Because the worse alternative is players not even reaching endgame due to shoddy or stale progression. Content has to have a decided course of direction. Either have more journey or have fast and huge destination. Trying to please both sides in the short term is an uphill battle they can't win. The long term is what matters since this is a sub based game. I'd flesh out the journey first, then apply extreme destination if it was up to me. But that choice is SE's.

Edited, Dec 15th 2011 9:17pm by sandpark
#91 Dec 15 2011 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
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Huh, I could have sworn I read something about accessory slot costs being abolished. Was that just my imagination?
#92 Dec 16 2011 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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nekroturkey wrote:
Huh, I could have sworn I read something about accessory slot costs being abolished. Was that just my imagination?


I remember reading something similar... or maybe it was lessened or whatever, but I definately recall reasing about a change.
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#93 Dec 16 2011 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
nekroturkey wrote:
Huh, I could have sworn I read something about accessory slot costs being abolished. Was that just my imagination?


I remember reading something similar... or maybe it was lessened or whatever, but I definately recall reasing about a change.

I would need to dig, but I thought he said that was slated for 1.20a.
#94 Dec 16 2011 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I just want to say I played SWTOR and still feel FFXIV is better... and I stopped playing FFXIV several months ago. The story is much better, the world is more lively, and of the art style is leagues better than SWTOR. The beginning of the game should be what hooks the player into the story and game in general.

Here's my SWTOR experience:
Log into the game, star wars logo and literal wall of scrolling text (star wars tradition)
Go to create character, choose Bounty Hunter class (copy of Smuggler on Rebel side)
Opening scene: I walk up to some guy who recognizes I'm wanting to make a name for myself and suggests I get on the local Hutt's good side. He tells me to go outside and kill 5 bandits or whatever. I go kill 5 bandits and return. He tells me to go somewhere else and talk to them. They say if I want to get on the Hutt's good side I have to go do some chores.

FFXIV Experience:
Log into game
Create character, an Elezen Marauder in Ul'dah.
Big parade, fanfare, watch **** Mithra dance on top of a float as another platform comes in behind it with this huge green monster in some sort of magical stasis. You're in awe at the size and splendor of the city. You witness some anomaly in the sky that no one else seems to notice. Then this thing with a bucket for a head walks up and blows a horn and all of a sudden the big green thing busts free and goes tearing up the city killing people. You and a couple of other people take up arms to stop it. The game shows you the basic controls as you fight the it. Afterward you find out from the locals the damage this thing caused, how the goobue killed some girl's father making her an orphan. There's a lot of emotion in the story.

Now I realize I'm only referring to the first few minutes of the game, but the first few is what either keeps people interested or turns them away the game. Even with it's drawbacks I feel FFXIV is a better game than (WoW-in-Space) because it feels more alive and - dare I say it - immersive. FFXIV, to me, is just a more interesting game. I don't play it right now because I'm not satisfied with the gameplay yet, but I'm watching it evolve through the updates. We already know what direction SWTOR is headed, the devs blatantly said they are ripping from Wow (they consider it 'metrics for success') so if I don't like Wow, I know already I'm not gonna like SWTOR. That's just my opinion, but this is an example of how someone can like FFXIV over SWTOR.
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#95 Dec 16 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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reptiletim wrote:
I just want to say I played SWTOR and still feel FFXIV is better... and I stopped playing FFXIV several months ago. The story is much better, the world is more lively, and of the art style is leagues better than SWTOR. The beginning of the game should be what hooks the player into the story and game in general.

Here's my SWTOR experience:
Log into the game, star wars logo and literal wall of scrolling text (star wars tradition)
Go to create character, choose Bounty Hunter class (copy of Smuggler on Rebel side)
Opening scene: I walk up to some guy who recognizes I'm wanting to make a name for myself and suggests I get on the local Hutt's good side. He tells me to go outside and kill 5 bandits or whatever. I go kill 5 bandits and return. He tells me to go somewhere else and talk to them. They say if I want to get on the Hutt's good side I have to go do some chores.

FFXIV Experience:
Log into game
Create character, an Elezen Marauder in Ul'dah.
Big parade, fanfare, watch **** Mithra dance on top of a float as another platform comes in behind it with this huge green monster in some sort of magical stasis. You're in awe at the size and splendor of the city. You witness some anomaly in the sky that no one else seems to notice. Then this thing with a bucket for a head walks up and blows a horn and all of a sudden the big green thing busts free and goes tearing up the city killing people. You and a couple of other people take up arms to stop it. The game shows you the basic controls as you fight the it. Afterward you find out from the locals the damage this thing caused, how the goobue killed some girl's father making her an orphan. There's a lot of emotion in the story.

Now I realize I'm only referring to the first few minutes of the game, but the first few is what either keeps people interested or turns them away the game. Even with it's drawbacks I feel FFXIV is a better game than (WoW-in-Space) because it feels more alive and - dare I say it - immersive. FFXIV, to me, is just a more interesting game. I don't play it right now because I'm not satisfied with the gameplay yet, but I'm watching it evolve through the updates. We already know what direction SWTOR is headed, the devs blatantly said they are ripping from Wow (they consider it 'metrics for success') so if I don't like Wow, I know already I'm not gonna like SWTOR. That's just my opinion, but this is an example of how someone can like FFXIV over SWTOR.


I will give you, FFXIV does have some really in-depth cut scenes from beginning to the current end of the story. I am hoping that once they get out of this patch-work state, there will be more to it, and it will feel more complete. Right now, you get a taste of them every so often (or in-frequently as it may be), and once they are all done, it's just Sad-Panda time.
#96 Dec 16 2011 at 4:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Log into game
Create character, an Elezen Marauder in Ul'dah.
Big parade, fanfare, watch **** Mithra dance on top of a float as another platform comes in behind it with this huge green monster in some sort of magical stasis. You're in awe at the size and splendor of the city. You witness some anomaly in the sky that no one else seems to notice. Then this thing with a bucket for a head walks up and blows a horn and all of a sudden the big green thing busts free and goes tearing up the city killing people. You and a couple of other people take up arms to stop it. The game shows you the basic controls as you fight the it. Afterward you find out from the locals the damage this thing caused, how the goobue killed some girl's father making her an orphan. There's a lot of emotion in the story.


Wow. Taste is a personal matter, I guess. The only thing I remember from that opening was that I ran around for about 10 minutes and talked to completely relaxed NPCs standing motionless in the sidestreets, while the Goobbue allegedly was DESTROYING THE CITY.

There are better cutscenes; especially the one involving little red riding hood from the weaver's guild. But in general, they did not deliver. I still remember when everybody thought that all (or at least: a major part) of the cutscenes were voiced. And SE clearly deceived people on that point from the beginning.

Where is my Shantoto? Where are my NPCs that are really rememberable? Up to today, I can't even remember the name of that girl that leads the... 12 something... organization.

Hm. Looks like I put on my negative hat this morning. Apologies. Maybe I should go to sleep.

Edited, Dec 16th 2011 5:49pm by Rinsui
#97 Dec 16 2011 at 9:56 PM Rating: Decent
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660 posts
Yea, here's hoping 2.0 maintains the same level of quality across all cutscenes and not just the first ones.
#98 Dec 16 2011 at 11:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,530 posts
Rinsui wrote:
Hm. Looks like I put on my negative truth hat this morning. Apologies. Maybe I should go to sleep. Deal with it.


Fixed.

Joking aside, though, FFXIV's plot could stand to be a little less convoluted and a little more memorable; I can't disagree. XD
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#99 Dec 17 2011 at 1:24 AM Rating: Good
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reptiletim wrote:
I just want to say I played SWTOR and still feel FFXIV is better... and I stopped playing FFXIV several months ago. The story is much better, the world is more lively, and of the art style is leagues better than SWTOR. The beginning of the game should be what hooks the player into the story and game in general.

Here's my SWTOR experience:
Log into the game, star wars logo and literal wall of scrolling text (star wars tradition)
Go to create character, choose Bounty Hunter class (copy of Smuggler on Rebel side)
Opening scene: I walk up to some guy who recognizes I'm wanting to make a name for myself and suggests I get on the local Hutt's good side. He tells me to go outside and kill 5 bandits or whatever. I go kill 5 bandits and return. He tells me to go somewhere else and talk to them. They say if I want to get on the Hutt's good side I have to go do some chores.

FFXIV Experience:
Log into game
Create character, an Elezen Marauder in Ul'dah.
Big parade, fanfare, watch **** Mithra dance on top of a float as another platform comes in behind it with this huge green monster in some sort of magical stasis. You're in awe at the size and splendor of the city. You witness some anomaly in the sky that no one else seems to notice. Then this thing with a bucket for a head walks up and blows a horn and all of a sudden the big green thing busts free and goes tearing up the city killing people. You and a couple of other people take up arms to stop it. The game shows you the basic controls as you fight the it. Afterward you find out from the locals the damage this thing caused, how the goobue killed some girl's father making her an orphan. There's a lot of emotion in the story.

Now I realize I'm only referring to the first few minutes of the game, but the first few is what either keeps people interested or turns them away the game. Even with it's drawbacks I feel FFXIV is a better game than (WoW-in-Space) because it feels more alive and - dare I say it - immersive. FFXIV, to me, is just a more interesting game. I don't play it right now because I'm not satisfied with the gameplay yet, but I'm watching it evolve through the updates. We already know what direction SWTOR is headed, the devs blatantly said they are ripping from Wow (they consider it 'metrics for success') so if I don't like Wow, I know already I'm not gonna like SWTOR. That's just my opinion, but this is an example of how someone can like FFXIV over SWTOR.



That is true, comparing the starting CG of FFXIV to the start of swotor, but as far as immersion goes, and gameplay, swotor just beats the crap out of FFXIV, i'm currently a lvl 14 sith marauder, and i have already explored a planet, explore ancient sith tombs, dispatched my master for a stronger one, killed a sith lord even tho i was only supposed to kill his son, but i made a deal with him, for a very nifty weapon and went agants the orders of my master for it, kill a few jedi scum who dared to invade my home planet, did a dungeon, have had over 10 parties etc etc.

Meanwhile in FFXIV i'm some adventurer, who's lvl 25, i saw some beast go out of control(Very nice CG btw) then i saw some people talk, then i saw some more people talk, then i talked to a midget girl, she sent me to some place, more talk, then i went to a camp, i killed some animals, then i talked more, and talked more, then i was like wtf, i grinded, grinded, grinded, did some leves, i shouted in uldah, i was ignored, i did the lvl 15 dungeon, i had fun, then i had to grind again, did some story quest, no challenge, then i talked more, then i hit 25, and we talked some more, then i had to walk, a lot.... and i logged off :(
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#100 Dec 17 2011 at 6:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Did they remove the old recipes (dated stuff) or is that in 1.21 ?
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#101 Dec 18 2011 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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660 posts
Ostia wrote:

That is true, comparing the starting CG of FFXIV to the start of swotor, but as far as immersion goes, and gameplay, swotor just beats the crap out of FFXIV, i'm currently a lvl 14 sith marauder, and i have already explored a planet, explore ancient sith tombs, dispatched my master for a stronger one, killed a sith lord even tho i was only supposed to kill his son, but i made a deal with him, for a very nifty weapon and went agants the orders of my master for it, kill a few jedi scum who dared to invade my home planet, did a dungeon, have had over 10 parties etc etc.

Meanwhile in FFXIV i'm some adventurer, who's lvl 25, i saw some beast go out of control(Very nice CG btw) then i saw some people talk, then i saw some more people talk, then i talked to a midget girl, she sent me to some place, more talk, then i went to a camp, i killed some animals, then i talked more, and talked more, then i was like wtf, i grinded, grinded, grinded, did some leves, i shouted in uldah, i was ignored, i did the lvl 15 dungeon, i had fun, then i had to grind again, did some story quest, no challenge, then i talked more, then i hit 25, and we talked some more, then i had to walk, a lot.... and i logged off :(


I completely agree with you Ostia. The quality of the cutscenes in FFXIV (when there are some), the story, the quests, they just fall off abruptly after the opening scene. Come to think of it (and I might be baiting the flame here) FFXII did the same thing. Maybe it's a SE trademark?
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