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#52 Dec 18 2011 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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Woofdram wrote:

I bet that the existence of queue times would unleash tons of oomplaints in here, but apparently for SWOTR it seems to be understandable, and actually a good thing. Interesting.


I would just like to point out that queue times are sing of a thriving healthy community. It is true they can get old but one thing you know with a queue is that at least you have a lot of people online to run around with when you do log on.

I would be willing to bet that if FFXIV had a queue people would be pointing to it to say the game must not be doing to bad. But as it is now they could put everyone playing the game on one server and still not need a queue.
#53 Dec 18 2011 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Sethern79 wrote:
I would just like to point out that queue times are sing of a thriving healthy community. It is true they can get old but one thing you know with a queue is that at least you have a lot of people online to run around with when you do log on.


Yes, that is one way to look at it...

... but if I want to shoot at SWOTR, I could easily see this as a bad way to treat customers. This company releases a Star Wars game... and the money-hungry bastards are not even prepared to give you service you pay for! Booo! Stupid!! Idiots!!!

But mind you, it is [b]NOT[/b] my purpose to bash SWOTR, nor the developer, nor the people who like it or are looking forward to play it. I am not going to say that people should like FFXIV either. I believe that if you can explain a queue time, then with the same amount of understanding you should also be able to explain why they have not implemented jobs in FFXIV - a game under contruction - yet.

But I guess that something like that would not fit the purpose of his message. Taht's what I tried to point out. Nothing more.
#54 Dec 18 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

1) The present mess doesn't need a fix, it needs an overhaul... lets be honest. The classless class system isn't working at all, much less well enough to patch into something worthwhile. I'm not bashing it that's just my honest, objective opinion. You don't build your house on a bad foundation. Why would you add jobs to an already broken class system?

2) The battle system has been dumped 3 times technically if you count the alpha test. I will give SE credit in that the current iteration is far, far better than that of alpha test. At the same time, if you'd had the chance to experience the original system it would make you wonder how a company who has been making games with battle systems for decades was even capable of such a horrible oversight.

3) I'd be interested in the storylines for nothing other than some lore about the world or perhaps some foreshadowing about what is to come, but that's almost non-existent. I will say that I thought the moogle battle rewards are a joke. Everyone is quick to pull out their pitchforks when someone utters the word 'toon', yet these rewards make me feel like I'm playing a game my 12 yr old niece would enjoy.

I won't comment on #4. I don't consider myself a black knight, just someone who's opinion reflects what we currently have and not the potential that may or may not be realized over a year from now.


1. You are right. It needs an overhaul!! Way better word. SE launched a terrible game, most people would agree with that. Big company, politics, finances...etc, so it took them a while and they have now set a path towards a whole new game that should be done in a year from now. What is the purpose of bringing up the initial game over and over and over again? "They should have this, they should have that, they should never have done that..."..yeah, fine, but it is the past. SE admit that the game was bad by not charging its customers and changing the game. I wish they would come up with a finished 2.0 next week, but they cannot. We have to wait. It really serves no purpose to bring old stuff up as new critique! It has already become a ritual dance.

2. Yes... terrible! I agree. But... does that mean that we all should stop playing this game just because they screwed up back then? My decision to play a game is not based on its past but on its current state. If it is heading towards a direction I do not like, then I am gone again.

3. I agree! And I think that we shouldn't expect any spectacular reward during the overhaul for the obvious reason. But it is easy to point such a thing out when there isn't a MMORPGG on this planet that doesn't contain similar rewards.

Edited, Dec 18th 2011 11:22am by Woofdram
#55 Dec 18 2011 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Woofdram wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
I would just like to point out that queue times are sing of a thriving healthy community. It is true they can get old but one thing you know with a queue is that at least you have a lot of people online to run around with when you do log on.


Yes, that is one way to look at it...

... but if I want to shoot at SWOTR, I could easily see this as a bad way to treat customers. This company releases a Star Wars game... and the money-hungry bastards are not even prepared to give you service you pay for! Booo! Stupid!! Idiots!!!

But mind you, it is [b]NOT[/b] my purpose to bash SWOTR, nor the developer, nor the people who like it or are looking forward to play it. I am not going to say that people should like FFXIV either. I believe that if you can explain a queue time, then with the same amount of understanding you should also be able to explain why they have not implemented jobs in FFXIV - a game under contruction - yet.

But I guess that something like that would not fit the purpose of his message. Taht's what I tried to point out. Nothing more.


If SWtoR has issues with server queue over a year after it's launch then you'll have a point. Saying that keeping servers stable at the expense of immediate login is 'a bad way to treat customers' is pushing it. Anyone with any sense knows the reason for queuing and it wouldn't bother them. I'd much rather wait a short while to play than have the server crash and wait for hours (possibly longer) of maintenance.

Also keep in mind that SWtoR isn't officially launched yet. They are bleeding players in with early access and smart money says that they will have more servers available in a few days when official launch hits.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#56 Dec 18 2011 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Filthy, you don't have to defend anything. Not that what you just posted cannot be swept away, but I already explained in an earlier post what my point was. If you think you need to pursuit this anyway because you think you can score: go ahead. I don't mind. This thread is not about SWOTR.
#57 Dec 18 2011 at 6:25 PM Rating: Good
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Filthy, you don't have to defend anything. Not that what you just posted cannot be swept away, but I already explained in an earlier post what my point was. If you think you need to pursuit this anyway because you think you can score: go ahead. I don't mind. This thread is not about SWOTR

Ah, that classic "It's beneath me to even engage you directly because it's too unimportant" move -- the 4th and long of internet disagreements since 1996.
#58 Dec 18 2011 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
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Woofdram wrote:
4. On the endgame argument (but also on 1. and 3. as well actually): they are changing more or less the entire game! Even the graphics, the areas...almost everything! You do understand (and happy to epxlain) why queue times exist in SWOTR, but you cannot understand (or you don't want to explain) the lack of endgame content? Hmmm, you are so blinded by Black Knight Syndrome it's sad.

Altogether, could it be that... you are a little bit biased? Just a little bit... maybe?

Have fun playing SWOTR btw. Maybe I will try it myself, not sure.


You know what? The entire "We're releasing the game again with a brand new graphics engine, new server infrastructure, and a standard MMO UI!" sounds nice. It really, really does.... except you're looking at over a year's time and more than likely a year and a half at the earliest due to unforeseen issues and complications (also gotta take into account how utterly slow SE is at getting a patch out the door). And even then, you're basically finally at what a game should be upon launch in this era of MMOs... two years after it comes out.

In the end, it's nothing more than promises and SE has shown repeatably over this past near-decade that it isn't worth listening to their promises when it comes to MMO games. They say something, it ends up becoming something else, and they laugh while the PR department tries to push it off as a "mistranslation".

Am I biased? Perhaps. It's more like I'm absotively, posilutely f***ing furious with how FFXIV has turned out. I expected a decent game and instead found shovelware from an AAA+ developer that's worse than 98% of what's available on the XBLA indie game market. A franchise I grew up with has been decaying since the century turned and FFXIV was the final nail in the coffin for me.

My concern? I really feel bad for Yoshi-P, I really do. The man's going to take all the blame when FFXIV fails to deliver upon the "re-opening" because the money will be spent. Ultimately it's Tanaka's fault as he and his team are ruining *BOTH* of their MMO ventures now. Yoshi-P's spraying air freshener, laying down new tiles, and putting more powerful fans in the bathroom, but a **** is a **** is a **** -- pretty it up all you want but it'll never be anything more.

As far as SWTOR?

Thank you, I will.

I'm curious as to what you meant with lack of endgame content. If you mean FFXIV, the game had nothing for 4+ months before they put in half-assed NMs that dropped crafting gear, another 3-4 before the Ifrit fight, and only now after a year later did it get a second fight to do..... so two fights at endgame. If you mean SWTOR, then I fail to see how you look at it as "lack" of in comparison. You have two raids of three different difficulties (even if one of the raids is merely a one boss encounter, but I still say Onyxia from WoW was enjoyable.) and the lead developer stated another raid (of the same 'tier') would be released within a month of the game officially coming out. That's certainly more than FFXIV looks to have within *TWO* years from now and we're talking launch and within a month.

Edited, Dec 18th 2011 8:27pm by Viertel
#59 Dec 18 2011 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Caesura wrote:
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Filthy, you don't have to defend anything. Not that what you just posted cannot be swept away, but I already explained in an earlier post what my point was. If you think you need to pursuit this anyway because you think you can score: go ahead. I don't mind. This thread is not about SWOTR

Ah, that classic "It's beneath me to even engage you directly because it's too unimportant" move -- the 4th and long of internet disagreements since 1996.


keke

It's a forum post, not a game of blitzball. I'm not trying to score anything. Simply stating my opinion :P

*EDIT*
Now that you mention it, the thread kinda is about SWtoR since it's likely that a good part of the population everyone is curious about is off playing that instead =/

Edited, Dec 19th 2011 12:03am by FilthMcNasty
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#60 Dec 19 2011 at 12:15 AM Rating: Default
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Caesura wrote:
Quote:
Filthy, you don't have to defend anything. Not that what you just posted cannot be swept away, but I already explained in an earlier post what my point was. If you think you need to pursuit this anyway because you think you can score: go ahead. I don't mind. This thread is not about SWOTR

Ah, that classic "It's beneath me to even engage you directly because it's too unimportant" move -- the 4th and long of internet disagreements since 1996.


No, but thank you for your very predictable response.

Is 1996 your birthyear by any chance?


#61 Dec 19 2011 at 1:12 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I'm not bashing it that's just my honest, objective opinion.
Did lol.
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#62 Dec 19 2011 at 1:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Is 1996 your birthyear by any chance?

So you responded to my observation that you were falling back on internet clichés with... that? I'd like to think it was tongue-in-cheek intentional, but I'm skeptical.
#63 Dec 19 2011 at 3:22 AM Rating: Good
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Kirby, Star Breaker wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I'm not bashing it that's just my honest, objective opinion.
Did lol.


Laugh to keep from crying? I don't blame you.


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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#64 Dec 19 2011 at 3:27 AM Rating: Good
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I agree with you, for the most part.

Eh, not funny when you have to explain it, etc.
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#65 Dec 20 2011 at 10:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Has anyone considered that they might not want a huge population right now--especially one that isn't paying?

If it's essentially still in beta, they might just want a core of dedicated players who are willing to pony up money. More players = more problems, and if those players don't translate into revenue, it's simply a net loss. It's not like they're really selling game boxes any more--in fact you can get it as a digital download from SE for like $12 USD.

Honestly, the more willing they are to shed current players, the more I suspect they have faith in "2.0" completely tantalizing former and non-players and giving the game a rebirth.
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#66 Dec 20 2011 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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It's a business, of course they want a large population.

However, it's not realistic until 2.0. Which is probably why they're not bothering with advertisements until then.
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#67 Dec 20 2011 at 11:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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yfaithfully wrote:
Honestly, the more willing they are to shed current players, the more I suspect they have faith in "2.0" completely tantalizing former and non-players and giving the game a rebirth.


This is a very strange opinion to have. Going by this philosophy, they are going to lose players like myself - someone who does enjoy this game and wants very much so to log in every day in partake in content - for that exact reason: the server populations are abysmal.

This game is becoming more and more group-centric with each patch. Those of us without active linkshells or friends who play this game are becoming more and more disinterested from playing, let alone paying a monthly subscription fee, every day we log in an are unable to do anything because there are simply not enough players to engage in what's out there to do.

Do you know what I've spent the past four days since the Friday patch doing? I've been looking for a party with absolutely zero success and replies to my frequent inquiries. Last night I was the only one in my level range in a particular area for at least two hours during NA prime time.

And you think this is a good thing for the health of the game moving forward? Completely absurd - they can't purposely shed players now under the guise of enticing them back in a year or so by dangling a major update in front of them.

They're not going to get 100k subscribers to play the game as it is right now, this is true. But they're also not going to get a healthy subscriber base down the road by letting the servers continue to bleed active players, regardless of what kind of update they unveil with 2.0

We're getting the right updates to the game and it's moving in an extremely positive direction, but the ghost town servers are going to render all that work null unless something is done to combat the dwindling playerbase.

Those who already have level 50 classes and/or are part of an active linkshell have an extremely jaded view of this game and its direction going forward. I can tell you right now, as a player trying to climb the leveling ranks without an established social circle, it's a completely different game than what others play, and to see others proclaiming it working as intended or a good thing regarding the dead server populations, well that's just extremely frustrating.

Go try it yourself if you don't believe me. 1-50 solo is completely doable, but it's 100x more fun with a group. And while you're solo grinding mobs trying to gain that next level because there's four other players on the entire server in your level range and none of them respond to your questions, the thought of what you could be doing with just a few more players willing to engage in the grind with you is enough to frustrate you to the point of logging out.



Edited, Dec 20th 2011 1:08pm by Whales
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#68 Dec 20 2011 at 1:41 PM Rating: Default
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I agree that it's probably mostly unplayable for new players now--given there isn't a cross-realm LFD feature, given the playerbase is so small, and given there really isn't much content, I suspect most players who aren't starting with friends or with a very generous linkshell in mind will find themselves soloing leves and grinding packs of mobs for the better part of 50 levels. It's certainly kept me from spending much time playing.

However, I'm really thinking of this phase as a beta for what will have to be a much better game down the road, and while some betas are designed to attract as many potential players as possible (to test server load), most are like what a select few are experiencing in GW2 right now--small and closed, for only the most dedicated players. Why? Because more players means more player complaints, service requests, server load--and bad publicity. If your game isn't ready for primetime, you don't want a lot of people playing it, just enough that you can try new things and get feedback from people who are clearly willing to buy your game and who will likely be setting trends in the community.

The SE developers are trying to overhaul a game that's in progress. That really can't be easy. As an ambitious developer with a franchise at stake, you'd simply love the opportunity to take the servers down and rebuild from the ground up with every member of your team helping. That really isn't an option, given you've already sold your game. The next best thing may be to take as much of your staff off support roles as possible, cut the playerbase down to a very manageable size, and focus as much as possible on game development.

I could be wrong, but I just can't see how they can possibly expect to keep this game running at a healthy population size after making it P2P. Unless they're completely oblivious to the pop numbers, I just have to suspect there's an ulterior motive or they just don't care.
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#69 Dec 20 2011 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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This may seem cynical on my part, but one good reason to make it pay to play is that, once implemented, the only people left will be people who want to play. That should help them weed out the destructive criticism, as well decrease the noise on different changes (large group wants change A, change A goes in, another large group complains about how change A broke everything).

I have no doubt, that by March there will be a few casual people on each server that know each other, and randomly do things together, but other than that, the worlds will be mostly empty. I am guessing March, as there are die-hard players who will play, and will log in just for the 1.21 update to get their jobs, get bored, and be gone within a month.

Anyone who expects there to be any substantial player base after they start charging I think is sadly fooling themselves. That is why one of my goals in the next couple weeks will be to get a win on Ifrit and Moogle Mog while there are still people to connect with easily. After that, craft, solo, and complete as many achievements I can while I wait for the re-release.
#70 Dec 20 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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rfolkker wrote:
the worlds will be mostly empty...Anyone who expects there to be any substantial player base after they start charging I think is sadly fooling themselves... After that, craft, solo, and complete as many achievements I can while I wait for the re-release.


But doesn't it feel strange to kneel your character at a digital bench and saw away the hours grasping at "achievements" on a game that's nearly deserted? I can just imagine the doleful echo of the blade on the wood as it rings throughout Gridania with only a server to hear...

... I suppose it could be that SE is trying to go for more of a Fallout-themed MMORPG...
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#71 Dec 20 2011 at 3:30 PM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:
This may seem cynical on my part, but one good reason to make it pay to play is that, once implemented, the only people left will be people who want to play. That should help them weed out the destructive criticism, as well decrease the noise on different changes (large group wants change A, change A goes in, another large group complains about how change A broke everything).

I have no doubt, that by March there will be a few casual people on each server that know each other, and randomly do things together, but other than that, the worlds will be mostly empty. I am guessing March, as there are die-hard players who will play, and will log in just for the 1.21 update to get their jobs, get bored, and be gone within a month.

Anyone who expects there to be any substantial player base after they start charging I think is sadly fooling themselves. That is why one of my goals in the next couple weeks will be to get a win on Ifrit and Moogle Mog while there are still people to connect with easily. After that, craft, solo, and complete as many achievements I can while I wait for the re-release.


And this makes me sad because the leveling journey of this game has finally been patched to something really, really fun, yet there's not enough of population on any of the servers engaging in sub-50 content to make it an active part of the game right now.

If there was an active set of fellow adventurers alongside me so as to readily assemble parties for group-based content I'd subscribe in a heartbeat, but there isn't.
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#72 Dec 20 2011 at 3:55 PM Rating: Good
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I am not a player but I've been watching this game. Been torn about trying it out or not. I imagine I am not the only one. With this digital download I may (...maybe...) just do it. Also, as it goes for advertising, look here:

http://www.impulsedriven.com/

Gamestop's PC download page. Under announcements on the right. Thought it was kinda interesting to note. My personal opinion, if FFXIV turns out to be somthing pretty good I feel like old FFXI players will give it a shot. No other game was like it, and those hardcore FFXI fans know that. When the time comes we will see some numbers that matter. But it seems like as how now SE needs to get on their ****.
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#73 Dec 20 2011 at 4:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
the worlds will be mostly empty...Anyone who expects there to be any substantial player base after they start charging I think is sadly fooling themselves... After that, craft, solo, and complete as many achievements I can while I wait for the re-release.


But doesn't it feel strange to kneel your character at a digital bench and saw away the hours grasping at "achievements" on a game that's nearly deserted? I can just imagine the doleful echo of the blade on the wood as it rings throughout Gridania with only a server to hear...

... I suppose it could be that SE is trying to go for more of a Fallout-themed MMORPG...

I don't know, might be fun to try and solo the Great Buffalo:P.

But seriously, when I am doing hard-core crafting, I have netflix on one monitor, and final fantasy on the other, I sit back, watch a movie, and craft until I go to sleep. Typically I even mute the game audio. Works as something to do while I am doing nothing... when I have the chance to do nothing.

It's also nice in the fact that crafting is such a time sync, it's best done when you have nothing else to do:P.

So sad... So very sad...
#74 Dec 20 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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Nashua wrote:
I am not a player but I've been watching this game. Been torn about trying it out or not. I imagine I am not the only one. With this digital download I may (...maybe...) just do it. Also, as it goes for advertising, look here:

http://www.impulsedriven.com/

Gamestop's PC download page. Under announcements on the right. Thought it was kinda interesting to note. My personal opinion, if FFXIV turns out to be somthing pretty good I feel like old FFXI players will give it a shot. No other game was like it, and those hardcore FFXI fans know that. When the time comes we will see some numbers that matter. But it seems like as how now SE needs to get on their sh*t.


There will never be a time when numbers will matter. The perception has been given and people have had a year to see how SE has handled the game. Impressions and perceptions of a game *never* leave and the first one is those that people will remember.

I still hear the same comments about FFXI nearly a decade later:

  • "Wasn't that the game that forced to you play with people you couldn't understand?"
  • "FFXI? That's the one you would grind on crabs for 75 levels and fights took forever?"
  • "Oh yeah, it was impossible to make any money in that game so I stopped playing."
  • "Isn't that the one that had the 18 hour boss fight? Why in the **** would I want to play that?"
  • "Oh yeah, I remember the camping NMs that took a day to respawn and losing to bots and all it would drop is a few crystals when you killed it. ***** that."


It doesn't matter what the game is like now. Those impressions are in people's minds and they'll never leave. FFXIV will be no different and it's impressions are even worse than FFXI's have ever been. Years from now you'll still hear:

  • "Oh yeah, that's the one with the fatigue system that punished you for leveling what you wanted!"
  • "The one with the terrible control scheme? Man, targeting sucked in that one."
  • "I remember it having a horrible UI and massive server latency when trying to do anything. Nothing like taking 15 seconds to sell one item to an NPC."
  • "Wasn't that the one that gave you like 8 quests every two days or something and the rest was just grinding on rats?"
  • "Wasn't that the one that was free for over a year after it came out because it was so bad?"
  • "Oh yeah, I heard that game was so bad that the president of the company had to apologize for releasing it."


SE's in la la land and their hope on the PS3 launch re-vitalizing the game is a foolish endeavor.
#75 Dec 20 2011 at 6:38 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't get your argument with FFXI's problems. Its 10 years later and its still relevant. Enough said. Regardless, consumers trends can change if SE turns it to something good. Maybe not for people like you, but for many its enough for at least another try, or enough to actually give it a try for the first time.
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#76 Dec 20 2011 at 7:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nashua wrote:
if FFXIV turns out to be somthing pretty good I feel like old FFXI players will give it a shot. No other game was like it, and those hardcore FFXI fans know that.


The problem is that FFXIV is not very much like FFXI, either. With FFXIV SE has successfully ditched nearly everything that made FFXI appealing for a few hundred thousand dedicated players while focusing on things like raids, exclamation-point-NPCs, and relatively quick, seemingly random endgame boss monsters. They're aiming for a group of millions of fictitious casual players that I don't think they'll ever manage to attract.
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#77 Dec 20 2011 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
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The problem is that FFXIV is not very much like FFXI, either.


I understand that. But this is a huge corporation that has sunk a lot of valuable resources into reviving this project. Does anyone think that has some factor in their strive for success? I think people have lost sight of that. Although this game blew when it first came out its now deemed a work-in-process not a finished product. From all the implanted and proposed changes it looks like they are moving in a direction that was much like FFXI, just different (obviously needed if its a new game). People shouldn't expect amazing population numbers while huge changes are being drawn up and put into place. So much is still missing. I think SE is aware of it and has a plan. As for the subscription fees, they probably drew up some model and realized they needed some revenue to support their actions even if it means a loss of population. But I think they believe its a temporary loss otherwise why do it? Maybe they have something. Just a little speculation.

EDIT* I can't spell

Edited, Dec 20th 2011 8:46pm by Nashua
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#78 Dec 20 2011 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nashua wrote:
From all the implanted and proposed changes it looks like they are moving in a direction that was much like FFXI, just different


I agree, they are moving in a direction towards classic FFXI insofar as the direction is not like classic FFXI at all, but rather more in line with other, post-FFXI MMORPGs.

SE wants quests that give experience, they want raids, cross-server auto-grouping, instances, quick battles, "backpack-style drag and drop" inventory, jumping, lots of casual content, and some PvP. I'm not passing judgment one way or the other on those things (not here, at least), but those are decidedly not like FFXI.

If you wouldn't mind elaborating, I'd be curious what you think is similar to FFXI in FFXIV, aside from half of an auction-house-market-thing and the job names, that is.
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#79 Dec 20 2011 at 8:46 PM Rating: Excellent
4 posts
ok,update today, logged in earlier to get a better NA numbers I hoped.

English battle / craft&gather
189 75


all others battle / craft&gather
27 97

388 total 9:45 PM e.s.t

Almost identical numbers from a few days ago, less than 400 total logged in.
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#80 Dec 21 2011 at 8:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nashua wrote:
I am not a player but I've been watching this game. Been torn about trying it out or not. I imagine I am not the only one. With this digital download I may (...maybe...) just do it. Also, as it goes for advertising, look here:

http://www.impulsedriven.com/

Gamestop's PC download page. Under announcements on the right. Thought it was kinda interesting to note. My personal opinion, if FFXIV turns out to be somthing pretty good I feel like old FFXI players will give it a shot. No other game was like it, and those hardcore FFXI fans know that. When the time comes we will see some numbers that matter. But it seems like as how now SE needs to get on their sh*t.

It's cool they're still promoting FFXIV (well, not really, it's actually pretty mean to the suckers who might buy it on a whim), but you can get it as a digital download for even cheaper right from SE.
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#81 Dec 21 2011 at 11:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nashua wrote:
I don't get your argument with FFXI's problems. Its 10 years later and its still relevant. Enough said. Regardless, consumers trends can change if SE turns it to something good. Maybe not for people like you, but for many its enough for at least another try, or enough to actually give it a try for the first time.


If you don't understand with what I posted about FFXI/FFXIV and first impressions then I can't help you because you didn't read the entire post.

As far as your naive outlook for "consumer trends" I feel pity. This is the MMO field, not offline RPGs. MMOs are built, survive, and die on word of mouth and first impressions. Once the damage is done it can never be recovered from. Every single MMO that has tanked upon launched has never recovered and every single one of them have sent out "Come check out the new XXX!" and made an effort to advertise the "new version". It ends in abject failure every single time.

This isn't being vindictive; this is stepping into reality, seeing how every other case has ended up (fewer subscribers than they started), and knowing this is a futile endeavor. All this will do is drain their coffers and **** off their investors. In the end, Yoshi-P will take the heat and Tanaka will get off virtually unaffected because he's a long timer there.

Then again, maybe a more intelligent game company will snag him up and profit from him.

EDIT: Plus, this is even more apparent when you view how they're trying to grab cash. PSN, iOS, and WiiWare have been out for years. Yet, it's only been within the past year and a half that they have literally flooded those markets with re-releases of old console games. Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI are the two biggest names and CT's been released what... four, five times within the past year in different versions? SE's been pretty "Japanese" about re-releasing their older games but not to this excess.

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 12:24pm by Viertel
#82 Dec 21 2011 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
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Are we SURE this search thing is working right? I just counted 30ish players (2 parties, the rest soloing leves) at a usually abandoned camp in Grid, went to town and counted about 60ish people (some moving, some not), and search said there were only like 300 online.
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#83 Dec 21 2011 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
Are we SURE this search thing is working right? I just counted 30ish players (2 parties, the rest soloing leves) at a usually abandoned camp in Grid, went to town and counted about 60ish people (some moving, some not), and search said there were only like 300 online.


It doesn't actually list players by name? I mean, it isn't like it would take long to send them all a message asking if they're really online. Not like there is much else better to do anyway :P
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#84 Dec 21 2011 at 4:49 PM Rating: Decent
I honestly wanted to start another thread all together about this and I wanted to create a Poll. I wanted to know just exactly how many people actually liked the 1.20 patch.

Reason, well, fairly simple, I quit the game right after I played 2 days into the 1.20 patch.

I can't take it, not at this age.

I'm hitting 30's, there is no way in **** I'm going to spend all the time in the world, "relearning" the game every once in a while.

I logged in as my 50 Conjurer, found out that all my spells, abilities, traits have been "re-written". Oh and please don't tell me that they have announced this for the longest time, I don't care. I do not feel like spending time researching every step of the way when the game changes.

I knew that they were going to touch Job, Class system but I never did expect to not like the direction they're going with.

HP, MP count was changed. Game mechanics has been changed. Partying mechanics is changed.

My Conjurer now has only a total of 4 attacking spells at level 50, stone and aero and their aoe counter parts.

The entire enjoyment of this game sort of changed for me after the 1.20 patch.

I walked around Uldah for a hour or two, then crafted there a hour or two, noticed that the entire city was like a ghost town. Rarely any shouts or anything going on for that matter.

After a while, I finally caught someone shouting for a party, got into it. Next thing I know, went to usual exp camp spots, everything is wrong. As a melee, I barely even get to pull my weapon out, the Mages just nuked the **** out of them and they died. Highest exp range I got was 100+ ~ 400+. Before 1.20, it was at least 200+ ~ 800 per kill with bonus.

I quit the party, because it was a turn off for me right away. Party mechanics have changed, need to relearn the sweet spots and correct party formation.

Then I went about NM hunting. Start noticing my MP was depleting beyond reason and no Spirit Song to cover that. Again, things changed, changed so much to a point I think, it's really turning into a different game. Don't know if that good or not to be honest.

I mean, when 2.0 rolls out, I think it will be an even more changes/much more different than now.

Then what though? Relearn the whole **** game again? I can't keep up with that.

And now we have to pay, for an unfinished game, that is constantly changing, not sure if each change can be liked by the players.... I'm not really optimistic about FF14's future to be honest.

Also, this is coming from a biggest fan for SquareSoft, I bought every single final fantasy game they made. I mean, there are a few I really hated, like FF9, FFX-2 (only liked the music), FF12... FF14 by far, is the worst one.

I'm on Besaid in FFXIV. Been a FFXI player since 2003, quit FFXI in 2008. Started FFXIV in October 2011, quit the game in December of same year, lol this is the first time I gave up on a MMO that fast.
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#85 Dec 21 2011 at 5:56 PM Rating: Good
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97 DoW
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#86 Dec 21 2011 at 7:23 PM Rating: Good
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GiftedChild wrote:
I'm on Besaid in FFXIV. Been a FFXI player since 2003, quit FFXI in 2008. Started FFXIV in October 2011, quit the game in December of same year, lol this is the first time I gave up on a MMO that fast.


I did a few things today that I rarely do in this game... I partied with a group at one of the strongholds, I went back to Ul'Dah, and I messed around with macros.

Ul'Dah was CROWDED, search didn't show very many people on, but it was the busiest I've seen it since launch. There were multiple level range parties being shouted for and growing. It took us about a half hour to get a party of 8 for a 45+ xp/materia run, but that's because there were about 5 different groups dooing moogle and ifrit runs.

I seriously can't recall seing this much activity in a long time during my normal weekday playtime. Being in the UK I think on average there were 5-8 people on my near cap LS (when everyone used to log in) at the times I play. There were a few people on the LS but the cities (well, Grid and Ul'Dah) were pretty active and it was mostly English speaking players.

I'm not saying the counts are wrong, but they don't feel right. I'm used to playing solo, I got PGL to 45 solo, today I got to 50 and 2 of the levels were obtained in 15ish leves. I plan on doing my DoH's up via quests because I have some materia to meld now.

As far as combat goes, I thought it felt a bit slower. However, in the PT it was chaining for 1kish xp per kill easily and going fast. Solo, it took a bit to figure out, but we definately have defined roles now. I'm still tweaking a few things, but I think I have it figured out. I just need to refine my macros. I'm in my early 30's and have minimal time to invest, I didn't think this was a major problem. No more difficult than learning a new map on an FPS or a rule change on a RTS.
____________________________
FFXI:Sylph - Perrin 75 Hume THF; Retired (At least from my use any way)
EVE Online:ScraperX; Retired
WAR:IronClaw- Peryn SW;SkullThrone- Grymloc BO; Retired


#87 Dec 21 2011 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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3,530 posts
Sethern79 wrote:
I would just like to point out that queue times are sing of a thriving healthy community.

That, or bad servers.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#88 Dec 21 2011 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
GiftedChild wrote:
I'm on Besaid in FFXIV. Been a FFXI player since 2003, quit FFXI in 2008. Started FFXIV in October 2011, quit the game in December of same year, lol this is the first time I gave up on a MMO that fast.


I did a few things today that I rarely do in this game... I partied with a group at one of the strongholds, I went back to Ul'Dah, and I messed around with macros.

Ul'Dah was CROWDED, search didn't show very many people on, but it was the busiest I've seen it since launch. There were multiple level range parties being shouted for and growing. It took us about a half hour to get a party of 8 for a 45+ xp/materia run, but that's because there were about 5 different groups dooing moogle and ifrit runs.

I seriously can't recall seing this much activity in a long time during my normal weekday playtime. Being in the UK I think on average there were 5-8 people on my near cap LS (when everyone used to log in) at the times I play. There were a few people on the LS but the cities (well, Grid and Ul'Dah) were pretty active and it was mostly English speaking players.

I'm not saying the counts are wrong, but they don't feel right. I'm used to playing solo, I got PGL to 45 solo, today I got to 50 and 2 of the levels were obtained in 15ish leves. I plan on doing my DoH's up via quests because I have some materia to meld now.
.


I think the counts are pretty accurate, I mean, busy Ul'Dah is about what, 100 people around? Gridania and Limsa I typically see no one to maybe 10 people around total. So that leaves about 300-400 people for the rest of the world out doing Ifrit, Mog, Strongholds or Exping, etc and it's realistic to think 100 for each of those. There's a reason why low levels complain that there's no one to party with, it's that there's really not many low level around.

I agree it's hard to believe, even I thought the game was doing slightly better, but when you think the game barely ever had 30,000 suscribers online...it makes sense. This game certainly hasn't had a growth since release so it all adds up. The busier servers like Rabanastre have been hitting 1000+ players on weekends and JP primtime, so if you're there, you'll feel the busy effect too.
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#89 Dec 23 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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i haven't posted here in so long but i really feel the need to post.

1. a server should never have less than 500 people on. ffxi servers back in the day were usually 2000+

2. star wars is superior to ffxiv in -every- way except graphics. I'm a FF fanboy, i wrote all the main solo guides for this game, and about 10 or so other guides. But honestly, star wars has more content in its FIRST world than this entire games storyline. Further, the starwars world is much much larger than FFXIVs world and every part in unique and interesting. Exploring is actually fun.
star wars also has considerably more than FFXIV:
-more raids (which are longer, better, and more fun)
-world PVP
-arena pvp
-spaceship minigame which would be an epic game by itself
-about 200 or more times the story (since you get an entire ffxiv storyline on each world and theres quite a few, then theres 100s of in-depth sidequest-lines that arent just "HEY HAND OUT MY COOKIES PRZ", and then you get 100s more simple sidequests.
-a different main storyline for all 8 classes
-planet chat (not the entire world but all of the planet your on, unlike shout which only works in the sub-zone in a main zone which is really small)
-mail
-no "kill the same mob for 40 hours" grinding (seriously, SE had no variety in ffxiv. coblyn coblyn coblyn coblyn then raptors raptors raptors raptors raptors and i guess now beastment.
-a huge amount of group quests (heorics) that can be solod but are better to complete in a group (yes you can solo heroic 2 and 3 if your a sith sorc)
-full servers not dead servers
-multiple mounts
-etc.

3. this game -is- dead. this game -will- die more. and 2.0 will flop. It took a year to add in search, theres no mail, etc. If it takes A YEAR to do that, theres no way their devs will pull off a remake in 1 year.

4. The fact that SE thinks ppl will pay for a piece of junk like FFXIV is proof they will not succeed.

i really really really really love ffxiv but it sucks. compared to the competition it doesnt even come close and theres been over a year of patches with almost no real results. Anyone who honestly think this game has a chance in the future or will come back to succceed is kidding themselves. I'm sure SE will keep it running for brand purposes but i doubt there will be any serious expansions after 2.0. The whiteknights on here are helarious. If theres 200 ppl on now on average, why would you think that will increase once they start charging?
#90 Dec 23 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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2,202 posts
Azurymber wrote:
i haven't posted here in so long but i really feel the need to post.

1. a server should never have less than 500 people on. ffxi servers back in the day were usually 2000+

2. star wars is superior to ffxiv in -every- way except graphics. I'm a FF fanboy, i wrote all the main solo guides for this game, and about 10 or so other guides. But honestly, star wars has more content in its FIRST world than this entire games storyline. Further, the starwars world is much much larger than FFXIVs world and every part in unique and interesting. Exploring is actually fun.
star wars also has considerably more than FFXIV:
-more raids (which are longer, better, and more fun)
-world PVP
-arena pvp
-spaceship minigame which would be an epic game by itself
-about 200 or more times the story (since you get an entire ffxiv storyline on each world and theres quite a few, then theres 100s of in-depth sidequest-lines that arent just "HEY HAND OUT MY COOKIES PRZ", and then you get 100s more simple sidequests.
-a different main storyline for all 8 classes
-planet chat (not the entire world but all of the planet your on, unlike shout which only works in the sub-zone in a main zone which is really small)
-mail
-no "kill the same mob for 40 hours" grinding (seriously, SE had no variety in ffxiv. coblyn coblyn coblyn coblyn then raptors raptors raptors raptors raptors and i guess now beastment.
-a huge amount of group quests (heorics) that can be solod but are better to complete in a group (yes you can solo heroic 2 and 3 if your a sith sorc)
-full servers not dead servers
-multiple mounts
-etc.

3. this game -is- dead. this game -will- die more. and 2.0 will flop. It took a year to add in search, theres no mail, etc. If it takes A YEAR to do that, theres no way their devs will pull off a remake in 1 year.

4. The fact that SE thinks ppl will pay for a piece of junk like FFXIV is proof they will not succeed.

i really really really really love ffxiv but it sucks. compared to the competition it doesnt even come close and theres been over a year of patches with almost no real results. Anyone who honestly think this game has a chance in the future or will come back to succceed is kidding themselves. I'm sure SE will keep it running for brand purposes but i doubt there will be any serious expansions after 2.0. The whiteknights on here are helarious. If theres 200 ppl on now on average, why would you think that will increase once they start charging?


Because is Final Fantasy!! Man Seriouly! Dont you know series has millions and millions of Fans ? I'm pretty sure they are all waiting for 2.0 to sign up, just like those millions and millions signed up for XI, and bought XIV on release.....

Oh wait, the avarage FF consumer does not care for the MMO FF... my bad.
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#91 Dec 23 2011 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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Aww, yes. It`s a real bummer the humanoid models in Star Wars are so ugly and the Jedi storyline overdoes the "you are our hero, you are the best, we entrust our future to you even before we get to know you better" part so much. I only played for about an hour for that reason (I absolutely dislike childish hero-talk and pimpled-teenager-sexual-allusion stuff), but apart from the above, what I experienced during that hour was pretty impressive.

Compared to that, the first hour of FF already was a completely disjointed and uncoordinated mess. Well, we`ll see whether FF can recover or not. I`ll lose nothing by simply waiting for things to unfold at a snail`s pace. And who knows, perhaps this game finally meets my standards sometime in 2014. Or 2015.
#92 Dec 23 2011 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
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2,214 posts
If Final Fantasy 14 was the biggest disappointment in gaming for me in the past 5 years, than I would definitely walk away and not look back. But, unfortunately, I have come to expect games with less quality and thought in their design. The style of games I enjoy don't seem to exist anymore, and this is the closest I have, so I will enjoy:P. It's sad that I am accused of being a white knight because I think most everything else sucks more:).
#93 Dec 23 2011 at 5:09 PM Rating: Good
***
2,232 posts
Azurymber wrote:
i haven't posted here in so long but i really feel the need to post.

1. a server should never have less than 500 people on. ffxi servers back in the day were usually 2000+

2. star wars is superior to ffxiv in -every- way except graphics. I'm a FF fanboy, i wrote all the main solo guides for this game, and about 10 or so other guides. But honestly, star wars has more content in its FIRST world than this entire games storyline. Further, the starwars world is much much larger than FFXIVs world and every part in unique and interesting. Exploring is actually fun.
star wars also has considerably more than FFXIV:
-more raids (which are longer, better, and more fun)
-world PVP
-arena pvp
-spaceship minigame which would be an epic game by itself
-about 200 or more times the story (since you get an entire ffxiv storyline on each world and theres quite a few, then theres 100s of in-depth sidequest-lines that arent just "HEY HAND OUT MY COOKIES PRZ", and then you get 100s more simple sidequests.
-a different main storyline for all 8 classes
-planet chat (not the entire world but all of the planet your on, unlike shout which only works in the sub-zone in a main zone which is really small)
-mail
-no "kill the same mob for 40 hours" grinding (seriously, SE had no variety in ffxiv. coblyn coblyn coblyn coblyn then raptors raptors raptors raptors raptors and i guess now beastment.
-a huge amount of group quests (heorics) that can be solod but are better to complete in a group (yes you can solo heroic 2 and 3 if your a sith sorc)
-full servers not dead servers
-multiple mounts
-etc.

3. this game -is- dead. this game -will- die more. and 2.0 will flop. It took a year to add in search, theres no mail, etc. If it takes A YEAR to do that, theres no way their devs will pull off a remake in 1 year.

4. The fact that SE thinks ppl will pay for a piece of junk like FFXIV is proof they will not succeed.

i really really really really love ffxiv but it sucks. compared to the competition it doesnt even come close and theres been over a year of patches with almost no real results. Anyone who honestly think this game has a chance in the future or will come back to succceed is kidding themselves. I'm sure SE will keep it running for brand purposes but i doubt there will be any serious expansions after 2.0. The whiteknights on here are helarious. If theres 200 ppl on now on average, why would you think that will increase once they start charging?


If they have a freebie week or something, I'll try out Star Wars, I guess. I got some invites for the last few test weekends, but after seeing the size of the download, I didn't even bother with it lol. So, I still don't know if my machine will even run it to be honest. Which is most of the reason I'm holding out for the FF XIV PS3 release. It's starting to look like I'm going to be glad I had to wait until this 2.0 thing :)
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#94 Dec 24 2011 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
If they have a freebie week or something, I'll try out Star Wars, I guess. I got some invites for the last few test weekends, but after seeing the size of the download, I didn't even bother with it lol. So, I still don't know if my machine will even run it to be honest. Which is most of the reason I'm holding out for the FF XIV PS3 release. It's starting to look like I'm going to be glad I had to wait until this 2.0 thing :)


If you can run Rift decently you can run SWTOR without much issues. Shadows are another story though (aren't they always in MMOs though?).
#95 Dec 24 2011 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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Viertel wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
If they have a freebie week or something, I'll try out Star Wars, I guess. I got some invites for the last few test weekends, but after seeing the size of the download, I didn't even bother with it lol. So, I still don't know if my machine will even run it to be honest. Which is most of the reason I'm holding out for the FF XIV PS3 release. It's starting to look like I'm going to be glad I had to wait until this 2.0 thing :)


If you can run Rift decently you can run SWTOR without much issues. Shadows are another story though (aren't they always in MMOs though?).


I had to run Rift on the "Low quality render" with the absolute lowest settings, and still got like 9FPS during the zone events, so it's not looking good ;)

Like I said though, I'll try it when they finally get around to giving out some free trials. We'll see how it goes from there.

In the mean time, I think I may throw Demon's Souls back into the machine and see how long I can play without getting killed. :)
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#96 Dec 24 2011 at 1:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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With the regard to incoming new players if there will be that much, if any. Is that FFXIV is not solo friendly anymore. You'll need a strong linkshell that is willing to help. Patch 1.2 turned the battle system upside down. Certain jobs are great, others plain suck now. Jobs are more simplified and combo's either make or break your class (RIP Marauder AOE).

Would I be playing if I wasn't part of a nice active linkshell? Absolutely not!

Luckily servers will merge after P2P goes in effect. Might help a bit.

Edited, Dec 24th 2011 1:20am by Displace
#97 Dec 24 2011 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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493 posts
I might be demonic for thinking this, but I'm glad XIV is in such a hole right now. I've played XI for almost 8 years on and off, and while I've enjoyed the bulk of it, and felt the abyssea addons were revolutionary, SE had the nerve to send Tanaka back over to XI (after Yoshi P, who is now at XIV, had reinvented the game in such a great way), and ever since he has done nothing but drive it into the ground. People have defended Tanaka (why I have no clue), saying it isn't his fault, but he makes the final calls on what goes through. I hope all of this wakes SE up and they find some new devs, and get rid of the dev team that follows Tanaka (and Tanaka himself) back and forth between XI and XIV. They are a waste of paychecks as of late.

I plan to give SE my money for one more month (for XI, no way for XIV), but during that time they have to prove something to me, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Edited, Dec 24th 2011 11:57am by lolrockboy
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****, I am sure with some tweaking it would run on an iphone.
Or even on the LCD display of my microwave.
#98 Dec 24 2011 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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Rabanastre fluctuates beween 450-550 people
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#99 Dec 24 2011 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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lolrockboy wrote:
I'm glad XIV is in such a hole right now. I've played XI for almost 8 years on and off, and while I've enjoyed the bulk of it, and felt the abyssea addons were revolutionary, SE had the nerve to send Tanaka back over to XI (after Yoshi P, who is now at XIV, had reinvented the game in such a great way), and ever since he has done nothing but drive it into the ground.


Tanaka was in charge of FFXI until he moved over to FFXIV, so I'm not sure why you're upset, as he presided over a majority of the time you spent playing (enjoying) FFXI for eight years.

Yoshida's "reinvention" of FFXIV has been nothing more than incremental changes to make the game barely playable; sure, he's released some plans to change the game to a generally acceptable state but, realistically, it's not like he's turned FFXIV into something even a modest population is willing to buy at this point. Yoshida has made utterly broken things into things that work well enough until they can be actually fixed at a later date, and most of his solutions are just borrowing from what almost every other MMO in the last six years has done; painting the man as somewhat of a revolutionary genius, I think, is be an exaggeration. XD
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#100 Dec 24 2011 at 8:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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493 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
Tanaka was in charge of FFXI until he moved over to FFXIV, so I'm not sure why you're upset, as he presided over a majority of the time you spent playing (enjoying) FFXI for eight years.


While yes, Tanaka was in charge of FFXI for the bulk of that time, the casual style that abyssea brought into the picture was the only reason I stayed (see: came back after a 6 month break). When I started playing XI, I was a freshman in high school, with not more than a care in the world other than making sure I went to school and got good grades. Most of us "XI Veterans" are now in our mid-20s or beyond, in or out of college, have full-time jobs, and may even have families to tend to. The days of being able to play for 18 hours a day with your party flag up, unable to solo decent exp, staring at a room full of flies waiting for an HNM to spawn for hours on end, have long since passed.

Sure, there may be a playerbase that still wants that (there is, I've seen them post on the AH forums....), but for those of us that have lives, we'd rather not see XI go back to the timesink days of old. Its nice to sign on for 2-3 hours and make notable progress. Tanaka is going in the opposite direction once again, and sadly, for a game I've held so near and dear for many years, if that continues it won't have any room in my life. Even if I did have that much time to devote, with a dwindling playerbase, large 18-man events should have stayed a thing of the past.

Anyway, I'm ranting about FFXI on the XIV forums, my bad. My opinion still stands that Tanaka needs to get away from hardcore/timesinks, in either game, because the majority of the MMO market has been going away from that for a long while.

Edited, Dec 24th 2011 9:22pm by lolrockboy
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#101 Dec 25 2011 at 3:10 AM Rating: Default
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4,150 posts
lolrockboy wrote:
While yes, Tanaka was in charge of FFXI for the bulk of that time, the casual style that abyssea brought into the picture was the only reason I stayed (see: came back after a 6 month break).


Did you mean a 6 year break? XI was around for that long prior to abyssea... what kept you around during that time?

lolrockboy wrote:
Sure, there may be a playerbase that still wants that (there is, I've seen them post on the AH forums....), but for those of us that have lives, we'd rather not see XI go back to the timesink days of old. Its nice to sign on for 2-3 hours and make notable progress. Tanaka is going in the opposite direction once again, and sadly, for a game I've held so near and dear for many years, if that continues it won't have any room in my life.

Dynamis, Limbus, Nyzul, Salvage, Einherjar, FoV/GoV, Campaign, Walk of Echoes, BC/KS/KC burning circle fights, CoP/ToAU/WoTG missions, MMM, VWNMs, farming gil, capping merits... so on.

What do these things have in common? They can all be done in 2-3 hours with some in as little as under an hour. Some have been newly restored and others will be soon. About the only things in that game which could be considered timesink are obtaining and upgrading mythic/relic/empyrean weapons and those are not considered casual content.

Tanaka deserves the blame for XIV's poor launch, but I can't help but think he's just a scapegoat most of the time. There is almost nothing hardcore about XI anymore. Do you actually play the game now?

Edited, Dec 25th 2011 4:11am by FilthMcNasty
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
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