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Can we get some population numbers?Follow

#102 Dec 25 2011 at 8:46 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Do you actually play the game now?


Why yes good sir! I actually do! As for what kept me around, do you not know how to read? I had the time to play long-winded events such as sky, old dynamis, HNMs, etc back then. Also your list of "content" to do now, how much of that content is relevant today? Dynamis? For what? Terrible +2s that were released? Gil (as if most of us don't have too much of that now)? Relic? 5/5 + accessories all jobs my friend! Nyzul? All pieces years ago. Salvage? None of that gear has any purpose for any of my jobs unless they upgrade it at some point. Einherjar ... lol. FoV/GoV+Campaign ... for what purpose? EXP? Abyssea hands out exp by the buckets, and I've had all my merits cappped since 75 bird camps. MMM? When is the last time you ever saw someone do that stupid thing, and again for what ... EXP? Missions? Done, **** they can all be solo'd start to finish, every last one of them. BC's of any kind, once again, gil, if I want the item I'm just gonna buy it.

I don't think you're understanding the point of my post. All the content in the game is either A.) Already completed by the playerbase, B.) 18-man events (VW, WoE), or C.) Irrelevant. I'd love to see you just walk into WoE at your leisure and get something done at most times during the week. The only time WoE has enough people to complete a run is during JP prime on my server, or very late in the evenings Friday/Saturday. Also, I joined a VW pickup group last weekend when I had a few extra hours to spare, and it took 4 hours for them to get 18 people, and then almost 3 hours of actual event. "Oh, but you could get a VW linkshell!" he says. Sure, and go back to scheduled events. No thanks. Abyssea did it right. I sign on, see 1 or 2 friends, and go to town. If even more happen to be on and not busy, great, if not, not being slowed down.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Did you mean a 6 year break?


Umm, no? I'd been on a 6 month break, and upon the first abyssea expansion release a friend was telling me about it so I decided to come back and give it a shot. It was new content, new gear, and it didn't require 18 people. I fell in love with it almost immediately. Don't go telling me you did sky/sea/dyna/limbus/ein at 75 cap with 2-3 people. You didn't? Of course not. Obviously you can look at a lot of things as casual nowadays, but how much of that is actual relevant content? Not much. Voidwatch is made out to be the premier content right now, and as I said, unless you do scheduled events, which my life has no room for, you're pretty much unable to participate in that content, and don't even get me started on the upcoming neo-nyzul. That has timesink written all over it (and just because something only takes 30 minutes an actual run doesn't mean its not a timesink. Word has it that all the nyzul gear is going to be is a grindfest, akin to emp weapons).

I was done talking about XI, but you had to respond. Hopefully this post covered all bases. Also don't act as if I'm in this XI boat by myself. Reading forums alone is enough to see that a lot of the playerbase hates the new content. Anyway, back to XIV, please.

Edited, Dec 25th 2011 9:57am by lolrockboy
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Yep. Every netbook with an atom processor nowadays plays WoW.
****, I am sure with some tweaking it would run on an iphone.
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#103 Dec 25 2011 at 12:36 PM Rating: Default
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lolrockboy wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Do you actually play the game now?


Also your list of "content" to do now, how much of that content is relevant today?

Most of it is now or will be soon.

Dynamis relic weapons and armor upgrades are the best you can currently get in some slots for some jobs. Salvage and Einherjar are still the only routes to mythics. Neo-Nyzul is currently being tested and will likely have some great upgrades for a lot of jobs. FoV/GoV and campaign are the best options for people leveling jobs below the previous cap. MMM might be a joke to you, but it's quick and easy exp for people who can't be bothered to leave Jeuno. Not everyone wants to afk in an abyssea group or spam keys endlessly. Some of us actually enjoy playing. Shocking, I know.

I personally completed several gimpyreans by soloing and low-man WoE so yes, it's possible to do without primetime JP holding your hand. I don't have a VW linkshell, but those encounters can be completed by half-competent pick-up groups.

lolrockboy wrote:
I don't think you're understanding the point of my post.

lolrockboy wrote:
Sure, there may be a playerbase that still wants that (there is, I've seen them post on the AH forums....), but for those of us that have lives, we'd rather not see XI go back to the timesink days of old. Its nice to sign on for 2-3 hours and make notable progress. Tanaka is going in the opposite direction once again, and sadly, for a game I've held so near and dear for many years, if that continues it won't have any room in my life. Even if I did have that much time to devote, with a dwindling playerbase, large 18-man events should have stayed a thing of the past.

The majority of the events listed are solo or low-man and can be done within your time constraints. Whether or not you feel they're worth the time and effort is up to you, but your personal preference doesn't disqualify them from being relevant to the rest of the playerbase. The majority wants challenging content that offers reward based on the time invested. I know you've probably got your ears covered yelling 'lalala' at the top of your lungs, but the same is true for XIV. If SE had ripped off events like salvage or assault from XI and implemented them into XIV with improvements they have or will soon receive, we probably wouldn't be posting in a thread that begs the question, where the @#%^ is everyone.

You're not in your boat alone, but there are many more people in the boat with you who at least feel like they have reason to be there. I'm not sure why you're along for the ride if you don't like the direction it's heading...

Edited, Dec 25th 2011 1:37pm by FilthMcNasty
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#104 Dec 25 2011 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I know you've probably got your ears covered yelling 'lalala' at the top of your lungs


Haha, hardly. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and yes, I realize that some, if not all of the listed content could be relevant for someone who just started playing, never did it at 75 cap, etc, but from a personal standpoint all I'm saying is it isn't to me. As for being on the boat ride, I did say I was paying for one more month and seeing where things head.

I can say without a doubt that beyond that point, if things continue in the direction of voidwatch (because like it or not, its either a planned event, or a slow gathering of misfits most of the time), the game will no longer have a place in my busy life, because I've had about all the abyssea I can take. As for fake emp weapons, they've lost the majority of any value they did have, as the merit ws for MY jobs are just that much better than their counterparts (not saying this is true for all, because some of the merit ws are really bad). Anyway, moving on. Merry Christmas Zam!


Edited, Dec 25th 2011 3:10pm by lolrockboy
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Rinsui wrote:
Yep. Every netbook with an atom processor nowadays plays WoW.
****, I am sure with some tweaking it would run on an iphone.
Or even on the LCD display of my microwave.
#105 Dec 25 2011 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
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lolrockboy wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I know you've probably got your ears covered yelling 'lalala' at the top of your lungs


Haha, hardly. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and yes, I realize that some, if not all of the listed content could be relevant for someone who just started playing, never did it at 75 cap, etc, but from a personal standpoint all I'm saying is it isn't to me.

I did all of these events at their normal cap too, but some of the new gear is better than anything else currently available so it's not really correct to say that they died at 75. Prime example, I had been wanting to get ocelot gloves for my ninja, but now that the AF2 upgrades are here all I have to do is get the items for koga tekko and I'm better off than I would have been. Not all the gear is more useful, but the majority of it is situational at worst and that is the nature of XI.
lolrockboy wrote:
As for fake emp weapons, they've lost the majority of any value they did have, as the merit ws for MY jobs are just that much better than their counterparts (not saying this is true for all, because some of the merit ws are really bad). Anyway, moving on. Merry Christmas Zam!

I'll accept this as conceding that you would benefit from a relic weapon :P


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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#106 Dec 26 2011 at 4:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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7:30 PM in Japan 416 people total on Lindblum.
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#107 Dec 26 2011 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I'll accept this as conceding that you would benefit from a relic weapon :P
\

lolRelic. Oh yes, I'm sure he needs to go back to old content to work on a vastly inferior item compared to what he can get in Abyssea.

Oh wait... that's pretty much the current situation in ALL of the revamped content. Well, aside from a very, very small handful of items that are incredibly situational to the point that it isn't worth using them to build a set.

Oh hey, that's kind of like all of Voidwatch's gear...

TANAKKKKKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
#108 Dec 26 2011 at 3:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Viertel wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I'll accept this as conceding that you would benefit from a relic weapon :P
\

lolRelic. Oh yes, I'm sure he needs to go back to old content to work on a vastly inferior item compared to what he can get in Abyssea.


Do your research. Relic weapons, as a result of the new WS and buffs to their previous added effects, are the best weapons you can get for more than a few jobs. The newly upgradable AF2 is also some of the best gear you can have for your jobs so yes, old content is now relevant again for this reason. Skipping out on dynamis is your choice. If you're burnt out, hate it anyway or whatever the reason... the fact remains that you will be outgeared by people who are participating.

Everything in the ******* game is situational. If you want to be the best at what you do then you try to get it anyway. It isn't a very, very small handful either. In the case of most jobs it's the majority of your AF2 set.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#109 Dec 26 2011 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Viertel wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I'll accept this as conceding that you would benefit from a relic weapon :P
\

lolRelic. Oh yes, I'm sure he needs to go back to old content to work on a vastly inferior item compared to what he can get in Abyssea.


Do your research. Relic weapons, as a result of the new WS and buffs to their previous added effects, are the best weapons you can get for more than a few jobs. The newly upgradable AF2 is also some of the best gear you can have for your jobs so yes, old content is now relevant again for this reason. Skipping out on dynamis is your choice. If you're burnt out, hate it anyway or whatever the reason... the fact remains that you will be outgeared by people who are participating.

Everything in the @#%^ing game is situational. If you want to be the best at what you do then you try to get it anyway. It isn't a very, very small handful either. In the case of most jobs it's the majority of your AF2 set.



This.

Everything is situational in XI. The flame war you guys are having (in the wrong thread, might I add) against one guy merely siting his opinion is pointless.

However, he's right. If you think gear from Aby is endall penultimate gear, you're putting on the "noob blinders", and you'll be sorely outgeared by other true XI'ers.
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#110 Dec 26 2011 at 4:03 PM Rating: Default
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AkumaOkami wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Viertel wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I'll accept this as conceding that you would benefit from a relic weapon :P
\

lolRelic. Oh yes, I'm sure he needs to go back to old content to work on a vastly inferior item compared to what he can get in Abyssea.


Do your research. Relic weapons, as a result of the new WS and buffs to their previous added effects, are the best weapons you can get for more than a few jobs. The newly upgradable AF2 is also some of the best gear you can have for your jobs so yes, old content is now relevant again for this reason. Skipping out on dynamis is your choice. If you're burnt out, hate it anyway or whatever the reason... the fact remains that you will be outgeared by people who are participating.

Everything in the @#%^ing game is situational. If you want to be the best at what you do then you try to get it anyway. It isn't a very, very small handful either. In the case of most jobs it's the majority of your AF2 set.



This.

Everything is situational in XI. The flame war you guys are having (in the wrong thread, might I add) against one guy merely siting his opinion is pointless. That's like arguing against someone for not liking mint chocolate chip ice cream, telling him he's stupid for not liking some new flavor.

However, he's right. If you think gear from Aby is endall penultimate gear, you're putting on the "noob blinders", and you'll be sorely outgeared by other true XI'ers.

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#111 Dec 26 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry about that, went to edit, and hit quote.


And if you're about to say, "you don't know what you're talking about" "What do you know?!" etc...
I've been playing XI since 2004. I've watched the game slowly morph and mutate from something beautiful, to something ugly and horrendous, meant for small children.
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#112 Dec 26 2011 at 4:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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AkumaOkami wrote:
Sorry about that, went to edit, and hit quote.


And if you're about to say, "you don't know what you're talking about" "What do you know?!" etc...
I've been playing XI since 2004. I've watched the game slowly morph and mutate from something beautiful, to something ugly and horrendous, meant for small children.


That certainly explains the FFXIV launch.
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#113 Dec 26 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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You liked XIV more when it was released as opposed to now?
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#114 Dec 26 2011 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
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No I meant the people who turned FFXI into something ugly and horrendous, meant for small children were the same people responsible for launch FFXIV.
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#115 Dec 26 2011 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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Oh ^_^, was just trying to understand whatcha meant.

But yes, you're right.
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#116 Dec 28 2011 at 11:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ok here is a roll call from a couple of the Japanese forums, mainly from Logsuku and Awabi. The number in parentheses are the populations from the day before yesterday, while the numbers after the military time given are the populations from yesterday. Note if any of the characters are changed to ?? it is because it didn't get copy/pasted correctly.

23:00 1152 (前日1,137) Selbina
23:04 1006 (前日 982) Gysahl
22:37 890 (前日 896) Cornelia
22:33 857 (前日 862) Figaro
22:52 734 (前日 766) Mysidia
22:51 682 (前日 686) Lindblum
22:54 624 (前日 634) Besaid
22:30 601 (前日 633) Kashuan
22:28 592 (前日 585) Saronia
22:53 542 (前日 575) Fabul
22:25 526 (前日 571) Trabia
22:25 517 (前日 550) Istory
23:00 478 (前日 524) Rabanastre
22:18 503 (前日 511) Palamecia
22:28 482 (前日 485) Melmond
22:45 373 (前日 393) Bodhum
22:57 401 (前日 387) Karnak
23:03 361 (前日 370) Wutai

Note that these numbers during Japanese prime time are actually lower, these are global numbers. If you were to take the numbers by language you would have for example in Mysidia:

JP:640 EN:76 FR:19 DE:2

Which adds up to 737 from a different poster around the same time, which is very close to the 734 population given above. I would upload the new charts that came out yesterday but I cannot upload them like in mmorpg.com.

And considering that the JP population numbers now mirror the NA/EU populations from December 2010 that is definitely a bit shocking. I was expecting them to be a little bit higher. So practically all NA/EU server populations are below 800 and only 3 out of the 18 servers have JP populations that are near the 1k mark or above.
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#117 Dec 29 2011 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks for that Ambrosia. I copied the first line of that and pasted it into a google search with quotes. Came upon this site.

http://read2ch.com/r/ogame/1324915450/overview/

Read through some interesting info from what I could get from Google translate. Here's an exerp of one of the post on the site.

Quote:
November 25, 2010 (Thursday) 22 081 people
December 22, 2011 (Thursday) 11 294 people
10 787 person difference.


Ouch. 10787 people quit the game the past year, when it was free...

And here's another:

Quote:
December 19, 2011 (Mon) 12 253 people
December 26, 2011 (Mon) 11 547 people
Decrease of 706 in one week


So, once again they lost most of the people they brought back with the new shiny patch.

Further down theres a post with chart of the games population since launch, and until the player numbers was hidden.

┏ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ┳ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ┓
Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat ┃ ┃ day / date ┃
┣ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ╋ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ━ ┛
Year ┃ ┃ 2010
┃ 09/23 ~ 09/25 ┃ ----- ----- ----- ----- 28887 30404 31890
┃ 09/26 ~ 10/02 ┃ 36644 ----- 30949 31250 36121 40302 45062
┃ 10/03 ~ 10/09 ┃ 45049 43194 42542 ----- 42217 39216 46499
┃ 10/10 ~ 10/16 ┃ 47565 45504 41894 40516 39502 36525 43271

So if this chart is atleast some what accurate, the game peaked at about 47,565 players, and ofcourse steadily declined over the following weeks, until the player numbers where hidden. Then for the past year we lost another 10,787 people.

Which I've read a couple of TheVedis' post before seeing that post on the first page. But assuming that the chart on the source site is accurate... Player numbers being around 50k? More like, 1/5th of that. If not around 250k? Even at launch, it didnt even get to 1/5th of that.

I loved my time playing FFXI off and on, I hoped FFXIV could have filled that void. Really hope FFXIV2.0 turns out to be the game I will love. But most of the people I know in game havent been on in month(s), subs starting, and last night I logged on, did a quick leve hoping to start lvling up the char I rerolled a while back with the release of 1.18. Did that one leve, found the combos an interesting and nice addition, but quickly lost interest again and hit alt+f4 to close it. With the above reasons and subs starting, I'll check in on the game, read up on these and the official white knight forums, but I think I'll find something else to do until FFXIV. ... Like SWTOR. And I'm not even a big SW fan. -.-;;

:Edited to rephrase.:

Edited, Dec 29th 2011 11:30am by Katsuragisama
#118 Dec 29 2011 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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Man, that's BLEAK. 10,000 current players after almost 700,000 shipped copies. And billing hasn't even hit yet.
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#119 Dec 29 2011 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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Bleak isn't the word for it. The white knights in this forum will surely come out in droves at my next statement, declaring everything 'just fine' and 'going in the right direction', but SE can't cover even a handful of developers' salaries on 10k subs, much less the operating and ongoing development costs of the game. It's doomed.
#120 Dec 29 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Everything is fine, nothing to see here...

Lol. I kid, but I didn't think about employee pay and stuff like that. I don't think there would be any increase in NEW players for a while either. When I logged on last night and did a leve, I also did a search and didn't see many people in a close level range to my new(er) char. Forgot to add, if there were friends who stuck around or I saw people my level range, I probably would've played a bit more. But grinding solo at such a slow pace, I'll pass.

I hope you're wrong about the doomed part, well somewhat. I want the game to succeed, and would like to see FFXIV 2.0 released and succeed. But after buying the collectors edition at launch, and then reading all of the "We had the same problems in Beta, why wasn't this already fixed?" questions years ago, I kinda want the game to fail. Cant just make a crappy, half assed, copy/paste, laggy game and slap "Final Fantasy ##" on it, and expect to charge people for another year of beta testing. Even more so if the games going to pretty much change every patch and then you have to relearn it. :/
#121 Dec 29 2011 at 3:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Torrence wrote:
Bleak isn't the word for it. The white knights in this forum will surely come out in droves at my next statement, declaring everything 'just fine' and 'going in the right direction', but SE can't cover even a handful of developers' salaries on 10k subs, much less the operating and ongoing development costs of the game. It's doomed.


Sadly, you're right... in a way.
As much as I'd like this game to succeed, current numbers don't support that ever happening. They'll never be able to get all the money that they need for XIV and everything associated with it with these numbers.

But good thing they're a well established company with lots of revenue coming from different places, or XIV would already be history.
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#122 Dec 29 2011 at 3:50 PM Rating: Default
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Torrence wrote:
Bleak isn't the word for it. The white knights in this forum will surely come out in droves at my next statement, declaring everything 'just fine' and 'going in the right direction', but SE can't cover even a handful of developers' salaries on 10k subs, much less the operating and ongoing development costs of the game. It's doomed.


I believe this was already addressed by SE, development of 2.0 will continue as scheduled regardless of the subs. Really the current version is nothing more then a stage to see what works and what does not. Come 2.0 anything that worked will stay what didn't will get cut that simple. So in terms of the window v1 to v2 ya i can see every one sharing 3-4 servers when subs hit. And as people join said populated servers SE can split servers as they grow in population.
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#123 Dec 29 2011 at 4:16 PM Rating: Decent
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I doubt SE would really just drop the whole game.
Being bound by their word, they will most likely
continue development at least until 2.0, if not
for quite some time after that.

I just guess development will continue to come
at a snail`s pace, and even 2.0 will be immensely
delayed and, in the end, just as underwhelming.

So they will manage to meet their obligations
and, in a way, a "honorable retreat" without
throwing too much good money after the bad.

It`s ok. SE has survived worse.

Edited, Dec 29th 2011 5:18pm by Rinsui
#124 Dec 29 2011 at 4:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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While I cannot post the pictures I can at least post the links to both graphs.

FFXIV Population History Trend:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0AsRBPKP4ZpxJdGxJRllOeGthVVhTM1NZSHJ2WDFWdGc&oid=4&zx=x0nb002hrzyo

FFXIV Population Recent Trend:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0AsRBPKP4ZpxJdGxJRllOeGthVVhTM1NZSHJ2WDFWdGc&oid=5&zx=2j347wa4kvqu


Pretty much Torrence sums it up. When people defend or accept all or most of a company's decisions: i.e. They can do no wrong or almost never do no wrong, they usually fail to see the bigger picture and more specifically how times have changed from almost a decade ago. Putting a game or a company on a pedestal whether it is because of emotions or because it has become part of your identity (even though every game whether it is Pong or E.T. from the Atari 2600 or games that currently came out: They are at their very basic form no different; a program made by someone or a company made up of a bunch of 0's and 1's). They don't see how MMO as a genre has changed drastically over the past 10 years and how outside factors such as forms of communication and the various forms of media greatly affects when a game is launched (i.e. Stability, Connectivity etc.) and its release (i.e. Content, Game play etc.) as well as how MMOs "age" much faster now and release much fewer expansions and in some cases none and the sheer amount of competition.

It is why in part I was shocked on how so many people on the Official Forums, FFXVIPro, FFXIVCore, ZAM, FFXIV YG, BG Forums, MMORPG Subforums, FFXIV Gamerscape, generally touted within the lines that "Well FFXI had a troubled launch/release but they ended up doing well." It is almost as if they were either:

A: Stuck in 2003-2004 and never realized all the factors that now affects MMOs in a more pronounced way than they did before

or

B: They did realize some or all of the things I will mention but didn't care about it or were hoping for the best, or potentially frustrated on how the game would turn out and decided to use that sentence regardless.

I am going to make a 2 part post that talks in great detail about MMOs in general as well as FFXIV. Note that both posts are extremely huge, those few that take the time to read if you have any feedback/criticism do write back so long as it isn't the generic 1-2 line troll-tastic post. I won't post back to back in succession since I don't want to get flagged for spam since I'm a newbie here.

POST 1: Deals mainly from a question from MMORPG about the future prospect of FFXIV's population. Note that this post I made was in 2010 so it was a while back and a few things may be outdated.

POST 2: Deals mainly with more current stuff that has happened in the past month or so as well as a few things coming up next year. This one was posted on BG as well as on the official forums.


And yes the charts does show comparison to J-TERA but these were the only charts that I could
find. On a slight note from 4gamer.net it seems J-TERA is going to have a pretty big server merge come January 25th.
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#125 Dec 29 2011 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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POST #1

I chose it will stay afloat, but that is it. I think Square Enix will not allow this game to fail to the point that is has to shut down. They will operate this game whether it’s at the breakeven point or at a loss, so long as the loss is not huge. Here are the reasons I think the game will stay afloat, but that is it.


Wada: I need a scapegoat, I choose you!


Even though Tanaka “took full responsibility for the game's current situation” I wonder if he was just used as a scapegoat by Wada. I think it was Wada (and possibly with some pressure from shareholders/investors/executives/board committee) who ultimately decided when to release the game and due to that error decided to make the announcement as well as the personal changes. If Naoki Yoshida doesn't really improve the state of the game, what choices will Wada have? Make another announcement and yet more personal changes till they get it right? Personally this team is going to have to make moderate to major positive changes and even that is not a guarantee. Considering how unforgiving the MMO community can be at times, it may difficult to get all those lost potential players back. I am shocked that the board has not fired Wada considering the company has lost over 60% of its value in the past 2.5 years. Square Enix is still a behemoth of a company but I don’t think they will allow the value to go down another 60% of its current value without additional major changes taking place.


Take 2 and call me in the morning:


Things will get better, they just have to. The same thing can be said about pretty much almost every MMO in the past 6 years. Some have made small positive changes while others made moderate positive changes throughout. Granted this kept the small core diehard fans in those games from leaving, but that did very little to bring everyone else back for a second chance.

Most of the P2P MMOs that started in the past 6 years began with around 15, 20, and up to 30 or more servers. Those same MMOs today are down to 5 servers or less, with a few exceptions having more than 5 servers. Some have closed shop, while others have changed their P2P to F2P model, and others are looking into possibly becoming F2P in 2011. One thing FFXIV has done without a doubt is resurge players back into FFXI. The surprising thing is that most of the numbers do not come from NA and EU players, but from JP players. FFXI had a December update the same week that FFXIV did and I was curious about the population in FFXI. I was shocked when I saw the population at 2950 during JP prime time not only during the weekend but also during the weekday (Tuesday and Wednesday specifically).

Also the question becomes when and if the PS3 is released in the NA/EU regions, how many of those folks are going to stay after the initial 90 days and how many people from the NA/EU regions are going to buy it for the PS3 in the first place. Almost everyone I know plays FFXI on the PC. Everyone I know in FFXI that tried FFXIV was on PC as well. Especially in the U.S., I do not see how MMOs are popular for consoles. Of the over 500 MMOs on this website there are only 3 MMORPG games that come to mind that were or are popular or semi-popular. Those are Final Fantasy XI, Fantasy Star Online and Everquest Online Adventures. I am not sure if any current MMO can captivate console owners (possibly the diehard fans of the Final Fantasy series who couldn’t play it on their PC, but I am not sure about everyone else).


Competition: Hey do you want to pick a fight!


As far as P2P models, the only one I can think of that has had increase in population over the years has been Eve Online (which some of you guys have pointed out). While it came out around 2003 it wasn’t until the end of 2006 when they hit over 100k active subscriptions. But that is a very niche game since it is set in a science fiction atmosphere with spaceships as well as PVP thrown into the mix. It barely has any competition that has a similar setting/mechanics, the only other game that seems close to that is Vendetta Online from a search I did here on MMORPG. I was curious and even went to the Eve Online forums and found a topic named “Does EVE have any competition?” and the same Vendetta game popped up.

Final Fantasy being a fantasy style game currently has competition and even more so when 2011 hits. You have close to half a dozen fantasy style MMORPG games coming up that will also compete for subscribers. You have the humans and the elves and the (insert the cute or short race here) and the (insert the big and tall and husky race here) with swords and knives and shields and armor. How much of an impact those games will have when they arrive is still left to be seen. This wasn’t like almost 10 years ago when FFXI had a rough launch. In 2010 information gets to the readers much faster than 10 years ago especially with all the fan sites as well as some sites having official Japanese moderators who bring in and sometimes translate information and articles coming straight from Japan. On top of that you have much more options as a customer than you did 10 years ago (whether those games are good or bad depends on the individual) the fact still remains the player can choose from a variety of MMOs out there.


Tolerance: Hey this bug does not bug me, but this other bug does!


Tolerance or maybe patience is what some folks may need for this game. Fans of the series will probably tolerate or even accept the game as it is (or at least accept it and wait till the patches come out). But that is no guarantee that they will stay. Some have said within the lines that “Well if the diehard fans have been able to go through the roughest parts of the game, then they will certainly continue to support/play this game.” This is not true at all. Just because someone may have stayed the first couple of months is no guarantee that they will continue to do so. There have been people with multiple 30 level jobs and even multiple level 40 jobs who have quit the game or have stopped playing the game and went back to the sidelines to hopefully see further future improvements. Two weeks before Square Enix decided to pull the plug on the population search, there were only around 22k active players during JP peak hours. It is very possible that even with the patches that the population either stabilized around these low numbers or possibly may even have declined further. Square Enix even stated in the lodestone with their recent announcement that they “regret that the game has yet to achieve the level of enjoyability” and possibly even the level of active online folks overall to even consider charging people a monthly fee.

I’ll give you one example, there are people that have quit over the game because most of the weapon skills in the 40’s (for the job they leveled) look very lack luster considering how Square Enix touted this game with the beautiful graphics or how some have quit because of how poor the level 44 ancient magic all look. See now this might seem like a very silly reason to quit, but that is just my point. Just because some fans have been able to stick with this game does not mean that more of them will continue to leave and look at other venues for fun whether it’s an MMO game, or a console game (considering some upcoming and current fighting games and war games have online matches etc). Everyone’s breaking point is different, even amongst the fans. FFXI was already a niche game, and FFXIV “seems” a more niche game than FFXI was… almost seems like step backwards. This is why I think this time around just the hardcore fans might “not be enough.” The company wants to include casual players as well as hardcore gamers from other MMOs as well as from consoles. This seems like a daunting task, I’m not sure how they are going to lure all those people back. They need a focus/target audience. There is already a long post on that and I am sure some of you have read it, but in case you have not and are interested the link is:


http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/299747/page/1


To fail or not to fail that is the question:


Even though FFXIV is not considered a “complete failure” because it has not shut down, the word fail can still be used to describe how the game was handled as well as different aspects of the game. Take grades as an example let’s say F and C-. Usually in the Master’s level and even Bachelor’s level (if it is a class that falls under your major and not some elective) a C- would still be considered a failure. An F is a complete failure as it gives you 0.0 towards your GPA not to mention hurting it severely, and you will have to retake the course. Now take the C-, it is still considered a failure because you have to retake the course just like the person who got the F. It is not a complete failure in the sense you actually get a 1.7 grade point average for that course for putting in a little effort to get averaged into your total GPA compared to a 0.0 but it is still considered a failure. FFXIV did fail to meet the expectations of quite a few of the fans out there and most of the casual players who tried the game, not to mention everything else that has been said in this thread as well as the other threads, but the term failure can fit here.


And WSIMike pretty much summed it well with


“For now in XIV, it seems that you're advancing toward... a higher level. There's no reason to advance in the game except for the sake of advancing. That's definitely one of the gaping holes in the game right now.”

And to paraphrase from one of the FF fans that happens to have 2 major FF fan sites (one being FFXI and the other FFXIV) this also sums up part of the frustration that some of the players currently have.

“Part of the problem with FFXIV's current system is that the required effort doesn't pay off with really any uniquely cooler gear, region access, quest lines, mission lines, or prestige due to the utter lack of content at the moment. With no clear idea of what we're working for, it's difficult for people to justify the enormous time investment currently in place. Some people are just going on faith. Basically, that if they put in the effort now, the prestige and coolness and the game content will be patched in later.”
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#126 Dec 29 2011 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah I think one of the main problems is that Tanaka did not see any impending issues at all. Right before beta ended, one of the biggest concerns on the beta forums was the UI/Controls. And for the most part it fell on deaf ears, with a "We will look into it" response. The company knew exactly the product they were going to release, even if at a last moment they realized the shortcomings it had. But see this is not the first time a company that makes MMOs decided not to listen to their fan base and do with what they thought was right out of complete stubbornness/hardheadedness or their arrogance. I'll give you 2 perfect examples. Star Wars Galaxies and Age of Conan. Star Wars Galaxies at its pinnacle had around 250k to 300k subscribes before the most amazing thing on Earth came to pass. "New Game Enhancements" or the NGE update. On the forums people were shouting from the top of their lungs at all the horrendous changes that were taking place in front of their eyes. But it was thumbs up on that decision for Sony and for some odd reason mass exodus ensued and revenues went spiraling down.

Oh wait didn't someone say "We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players." Oh of course that was John. Another example was the grey elites on Age of Conan. Pretty much there was an update that had it where if an elite no longer "conned" to you , in other words was "too weak" then all of sudden they can 2-3 shot you. This was done to avoid any sort of farming, because that may grief the lower level players from getting a camp or allowing someone to hoard all the items in existence. Wonderful idea by the company. Wait was there not a post from the official forums that is still there today that had over 130k views and over 1000 responses that most people disliked this idea? No? Nah, let us go with the idea anyways because Fun-com knows what is right for the people.

Some of these companies actually thought that they could get similar results in subscribers as well as longevity with their loyal monthly subscriptions like the old glory days, when you would release a buggy game but still churn out half a dozen or more mini/major expansions. (Thing is almost every MMO in the past 6 or so years didn't realize that several major changes have happened since then and hence why most of them don't even have 2 expansions out, let alone a healthy player base). Such as how information travels now versus the trickle of information one used to get, different ways of communicating online such as forums being the major one and fan sites, and finally the sheer amount of competition. And of course many others such as bad decisions or very slow at making them. And not just MMO games, but other genres that now utilize online and/or achievements to increase the longevity of those games by a considerable amount taking up the player's time.

So now you are going to tell me that a middle aged/old Japanese man that practically worked in that era as well as that type of atmosphere where you would only churn out multi-million dollar products to what seemed to no end, never really going out of his way to get ideas/criticism/responses from the fans(except just for the superficial looks like he cared with the usual we will look into it response) and worked for a company that had 13 major console titles that sold very well and in some cases extremely well(I think all the titles at some point sold over 2 million copies worldwide and in some cases hit that mark within a week or two) is going to all of a sudden look at said product and go ---> Hey you know what, these guys may be on to something, they may be right. Yeah... no... the team knew exactly what product they were releasing, especially Tanaka since he saw everything that was going on with the different teams and the projects they were responsible for. They just either had that old way of thinking like most MMOs did from the old era 1996-2004 or just plain arrogant or a combination of both. They were riding the coattails of the successes all those games had and were hoping this game would be no different. Back in the day most of these companies almost never went for feedback in any shape or form, let alone even having a forum for some of those games. And practically almost every single triple-A MMO or really hyped up P2P MMO that has come out in the past 6 or so years have shot themselves in the foot... or rather got a shotgun and shot both legs off. The only major exception is Eve Online for obvious reasons, and no its not because of When-Spreadsheets-Attack.




Any sort of competition of MMOs or games in general is not good in any possible way, a problem that Final Fantasy XI didn't have to go through with as much as XIV is (at least for the NA/EU population). With the current console games that just came out and add to that SWTOR, Diablo 3, Tera Online, Guild Wars 2, Archeage, Blade & Soul, and whatever else that may come this way, there are some games that can easily compete with a player's time (granted people that only play Square Enix games, or mostly only Square Enix games are excluded).

Without sugar coating, at the current time the only 2 "endgame" contents for level 50 really is either Batraal's room(dungeon does not count since you just skippity hop it) and Ifrit's arena of fire. So after almost 15 months that the game has been out... we pretty much have 2 rooms that are currently considered "endgame" The NM's that pop out are barely noting as endgame, such as Dodore... you just stand there and wail away. Same thing with the gold chests in the stronghold areas. For example the Kobold stronghold, just kill the main boss, wait for the right time when it uses its only 1 special move(as it is with most mobs in the game) in this case calling out the golems, shoot off sentinel and win. And considering that most if not all the gear got replaced with the use of materia, then the only "endgame" spot that most people go for these days is Ifrit. So after 15 months there is 1 popular room to fight an easy boss that takes less than 10 minutes to kill, and if you are good at it less than 5. Which still shocks me that the official forums still hail this as a challenging fight (considering I got down the patterns after my 3rd fight). Bad connection non-withstanding, I know quite a few people who have lag problems and have left the game frustrated over this. Outside of Ifrit there is very little if anything that poses a serious challenge of any sort. As far as higher level content from level 41-49 is concerned you have the 2 non repeatable main mission storyline, you have the 2 non repeatable quests that are rank 45(outside dungeon quests). Company quests you have 2 NPC's for each region which pretty much give you 2 types of quests, either stand there next to a helpless NPC and protect it for 15 minutes or kill as many mobs as you can within a certain amount of time. Everything else got replaced by materia socketed gear to make it even remotely worthwhile.

And practically if it hadn't been for the 1.19a update, chances are I would of given up on the game entirely. Before 1.19a I would play roughly an hour a week or two, and in some cases not log in at all for several weeks. Thanks to Mr. Yioshi I was able to cap out on all 7 jobs(I don't count sentinel as a class) in roughly less than 2.5 weeks and "experience" the endgame stuff that he wanted us to experience, or like he said to "get involved in the game quicker." Pretty much before Ifrit was implemented it felt like and I quote “For now in XIV, it seems that you're advancing toward... a higher level. There's no reason to advance in the game except for the sake of advancing. That's definitely one of the gaping holes in the game right now.”




So while it seems very unpopular, it seems charging is the only way to go to get some sort of revenue going at this point, even after all I said. And yes to point out the obvious since it has been said on other forums, we already know that Square Enix is not a charity company. We already know it is their decision to keep it open or not. Cannot get any more common sense that that. Practically this can be applied to all gaming companies online or not. One thing though is that now with the search function coming in, will the doom and gloom graphs of weekly population come back like they were from September to December. Granted numbers are not inherently good or bad, but chances are they can be taken as such if the numbers go down. And yes numbers aren't everything (especially for the diehard fans). Most MMOs even if they only have 10000 active players will swear to everyone else that the game is good. For startup small indie companies, sure it may work well. For larger companies to only have 20k-30k active players for a long extended period of time, maybe not so much. Besides WOW and Eve Online I cannot think of any other MMO that came out past 2004 that has expanded servers or its player base by a considerable amount (out of the 500 or so MMOs out there... well to be fair the 50+ MMOs that are P2P) without it changing to F2P or some sort of hybrid, or like most that came out past 2005 being reduced to 5 servers or less.

And why did some people invest thousands of hours in this game? Some wanted to capture what FFXI had in this game. Others just OCD on this stuff, they need to look at a screen and have a computer program tell them they have done this much or leveled this much. Funny sometimes I wished Pong had that. For example, how many times you turned on the unit to play Pong? How many times did you move up? How many times did you move down? How many times did you move sideways(ah I got you there didn't I)? How many points did you score? Did you play the game on Shigeru Miyamoto's birthday? Others still have the old 1996-2004 MMO mentality of actually thinking that they would get a "leg up" on the competition gear-wise etc. not realizing for one bit that MMOs these days "age" at a much faster rate than before. Sure before you could get X Y Z gear and have it last for half a decade or close to it. MMOs now mostly have stuff outdated within 6 months to a year most of the time, if not less is some cases. And with the leveling curve, they become much easier as the months go by. Back in the day experience point charts wouldn't budge for years on end. So you knew you would be ahead of the curve. Now? It's like every couple of months the leveling curve is softened. And when the changes are made you can get to the max level as well as getting most of the gear within days or weeks compared to months that it took to level just 1 class to max. Thank companies for shifting the focus towards casuals (not the only reason but certainly a major one). The only other main reason is if you love crafting, or at least want tons of gold would be a reason you would be a pioneer or invest thousands of hours in the game. Another reason is they want to escape real life, I won't go any more with this since real life and BG would be like saying oil and water mix amazingly. And others simply played because it was fun for them.




And one thing I forgot to mention in that previous tiny post of mine >.>. In no shape or form was I hinting that said MMOs coming out are the Holy Grail, and at worst case they may take a small chunk or a moderate chunk out the diehard fans that are playing FFXIV actively today. Each of those MMOs may have problems keeping the targeted numbers that companies want as well. But it does give all the other players that much more options in an already extremely saturated market to keep it as a P2P model (and a much less chance for them to try or re-try FFXIV till 2.0 and that is taking into consideration that we hope 2.0 hits a grand slam... or a homerun... or at very least get to 1st base). Besides the title and a few other things, what really sets this game apart from the rest of the fantasy games out there? You have the humans and the elves and the (insert the cute or short race here) and the (insert the big and tall and husky race here) with swords and knives and shields and armor.

Console/other genres don't have anywhere the point of saturation MMOs have at this very moment. I mean think of the recent console games that just came out such as Skyrim and earlier this year was Dragon Age 2 and The Witcher 2. For fighting games you guys had Ultimate Marvel and MK9. And for war games... eh like 3 of them lol... sorry I don't know the names to them all. Each of those genres had at most half a dozen or a dozen direct competition for 2011 more or less. And most of those listed, if not all did end up selling very well. Obviously there are other genres but you get my point.

Imagine if you will there were 500 of each types of games at this very instant. I mean if you go to wiki and go the "List of Wars" imagine for a moment if there were at least 500 FPS/War games that were continually being updated with the same graphics or better like Battlefield 3. Imagine the top 250 or so anime or cartoon or video games characters and all the possible crossovers, think sort of like Mugen but let's say to the level of MK9 or Marvel (as far as balancing.. yes it's not perfect, execution, style etc.). And finally imagine 500 or so games at the level of Skyrim, Dragon Age 2, and the Witcher 2. All of them being continually updated and lets top it off with let's say 80% of them are F2P(lesser quality of course with the usual Cash to Shop options... buy a horse for a few dollars... Hello Oblivion). Hypothetical scenario since licensing issues/conflicts come into play.

Do you think in any possible way that those games I mentioned would of sold even a fraction of what those games sold? Nearly impossible.

This is what the MMO market is exactly at this very instant. Console games have much more breathing room to work with. And yes I understand that many games do come out every year for consoles and some don't do nearly as well as the ones I mentioned, but that is still nowhere close as to what MMOs have to deal with. So yeah, every MMO has 5k 10k 20k 30k (these numbers barely mean anything for large companies especially) diehard fans that love their game for whatever reason. But what is FFXIV going to do to reach those people outside of the tight knit fans, what options/ideas are they going to market for 2.0 that will solidify the P2P option to go for a long time as well having a healthy player base that hopefully stabilizes or can continue to grow?
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#127 Dec 29 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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AkumaOkami wrote:


Sadly, you're right... in a way.
As much as I'd like this game to succeed, current numbers don't support that ever happening. They'll never be able to get all the money that they need for XIV and everything associated with it with these numbers.

But good thing they're a well established company with lots of revenue coming from different places, or XIV would already be history.


Yes, but sooner or later the powers that be will get sick of dipping into what would be profits from other areas to sink into a game that has little to no chance of succeeding (thanks to the botched launch). That money would be better invested in new development projects or completely rebooting the ip, not dragging XIV along on life support. It's just a matter of time.
#128 Dec 29 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
AkumaOkami wrote:


Sadly, you're right... in a way.
As much as I'd like this game to succeed, current numbers don't support that ever happening. They'll never be able to get all the money that they need for XIV and everything associated with it with these numbers.

But good thing they're a well established company with lots of revenue coming from different places, or XIV would already be history.


Yes, but sooner or later the powers that be will get sick of dipping into what would be profits from other areas to sink into a game that has little to no chance of succeeding (thanks to the botched launch). That money would be better invested in new development projects or completely rebooting the ip, not dragging XIV along on life support. It's just a matter of time.


Yeah, in my opinion, this has been throwing good money after bad almost since launch. RIP.
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#129 Dec 29 2011 at 6:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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AmbrosiaAmor wrote:
22:45 373 (前日 393) Bodhum
Holy sh*t, that's pretty sad. Haven't had the time to bother with FFXIV the last couple months, and apparently the same goes for just about everyone else who used to play.
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#130 Dec 29 2011 at 9:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
It is why in part I was shocked on how so many people on the Official Forums, FFXVIPro, FFXIVCore, ZAM, FFXIV YG, BG Forums, MMORPG Subforums, FFXIV Gamerscape, generally touted within the lines that "Well FFXI had a troubled launch/release but they ended up doing well." It is almost as if they were either:

A: Stuck in 2003-2004 and never realized all the factors that now affects MMOs in a more pronounced way than they did before



Since many people forget what happened at FFXI's launch (May 2002), I'll recap. The registration servers couldn't handle the load of people blitzing it at the same time. I recall there was one website that noted a blog of someone who started registration at 12 or 2PM local time and they weren't able to get online til 12AM due to all the disconnects and crashes. There were also some ineffective registration codes on boxes and an issue with registration codes being rejected despite being accepted moments earlier if the registration process is disrupted. That complaint only existed on day 1-2. Then Sony caused some added grief by having a shortage of some internet component for the PS2. Square quickly got on top of any growing scandal by giving free service thru the end of June. The main issues over the back end of May was FFXI's weak point... the registration servers and the PS2 broadband component.

The problems were all resolved by mid June (except for the PS2 component shortage). FFXI sold 76k copies that 1st week. FFXI sold 94k copies by mid June. FFXI fell short of their growth estimates (which were quite pie in the sky) but they got strong numbers. From there... 102k by early 7/02, 120k by mid 8/02, 180k by mid 11/02. It hit 200k by the end of 2002 and Square was very happy with those numbers. And for early numbers, if I remember correctly, FFXI had 90k active players by the end of June 2002 and by the end of May 2002, it was something like 45~54k who managed to navigate all those early difficulties and get in to play. So, FFXIV's numbers peaked at where FFXI was somewhere around week 2 or 3. Oh, and FFXI had 20 servers at launch (technically 21 but Atomos is usually treated as a hidden number). Compare the # active/ # copies sold. You can see by the end of June, essentially only a small number were buying FFXI but unable to get online.

The PS2 broadband component shortage was the main limiting factor for months. As can be seen in blogs and forums, the talk quickly turned to figuring out quests, hunting NMs, finding out what drops from who, and trying to organized the 1st pieces of a database (FFXI didn't get a semblance of one til late 2002 and it seemed only by 2003 was there a solid, extensive, up to date database) instead of having technical issues. You can't focus on the details of a game if you have difficulty getting into the game. It was quite funny hearing Japanese players ~the end of Aug 02 complain about how hard Awd Goggie was.


There was more tolerance for the difficulties because a) this was Square (not yet -Enix)'s 1st MMORPG and the servers weren't tested in full before for a full blitz of people wanting to sign up, just with beta (which has controlled numbers, i.e. who you send the beta pack to) and b) the playerbase was all Japanese, it was a console-based game, so it may have been the 1st online MMO experience for many of them, as opposed to FFXI in NA having Everquest, DAoC, Ultima Online players to draw from. Anyone know what the MMO scene in Japan was like circa 2002? (/flash the Elmer signal!)


Bridging FFXI & FFXIV, there were signs of something weird going on even before the FFXIV beta that alienated some people. FFXIV was in development since 2005 and yet after 5.5 years or so, the beta had very little to show in way of zones and enemies. I had the list of FFXI beta's zones though forget where I put it, but suffice to say, it was most of the original zones (2/3, 3/4, 8/10? Not sure), definately well over half. All field areas south of the Northlands were open as were many caves (offhand can't remember if the Beastmen strongholds were open). FFXI's beta had the original 6 job classes, FFXI at launch had those 6 + the 5 original extra jobs (SMN came with RotZ but unlike SAM, NIN, DRG, it didn't require RotZ to get). FFXI started development in late 1999/early 2000. So from start to launch, it had 2.5 years of development. In half the time, it had much more to show, both in beta (Dec 01- Apr 02) and at launch. And in terms of content, missions through Delkfutt's Tower were active at launch, NMs added 6/02, level cap up & HNMs added 9/02 (final missions 8/02 if I remember correctly), Artifact Armor added 11/02 & 12/02 (and some more HNMs then) + Level Cap up again, the earliest BCNMs 2/03. 11 months after launch the 1st expansion was active. Compare FFXI Year 1 to FFXIV Year 1 in terms of how much new content, whole new things were added. And the equivalent of 'now' in FFXI (vis-a-vis FFXIV) would be July 2003. HNM scene was Behemoth, King Behemoth, Fafnir & Adamantoise (others in 12/03), Roc, Simurgh, Serket, Capricious Cassie and a few since demoted HNMs (Cemetary Cherry, Lumber Jack, etc). Sky was 12/03, Dynamis was 2/04. Zilart's missions... thru the 8th one (big battle) at launch in April, Sky opened up in July 2003, final mission Oct 2003. Compare and contrast. It leaves one scratching their head wondering WTF?


And now onto FFXIV:
As for FFXIV's numbers, SE touted the 600k-some shipped (680k? 650k?) but the population numbers posted in Fall 2010 and again here reveal FFXIV never had more than a little under 50k people online/active in the game. Most of those copies sat on shelves.

That drop by about half from late 2010 to late 2011, during an entirely free period with lots of hype about the next patch being the golden patch and a lot of white knighting, is eye-widening. FFXIV's free period given the development of FFXIV 2.0 was meant to hook people with a sort of free demo within which one could play the entire game. While a lot is going to be changed, some things presumably are going to be the same (race graphics, race names, nations, world name, history, etc). SE would have wanted to have a strong base of players in FFXIV 1.0 to allow FFXIV to have a good-sized population in hopes to attract others to a bustling game. These numbers show it's a busted game. 11k isn't going to seed anything. For 2.0, the larger the number of 1.0 players active in the year or so before 2.0's launch the better, and how many stay with the pay period would be a gauge of player confidence in FFXIV any.0. The numbers make the odds look less optimistic for 2.0, which was already a longshot/hail mary by odds anyway.


As for competition, yes, around the launch of WoW, one website said the age of competition in MMOs began. There was competition earlier, but the field was a lot less crowded before late 2004, just EQ1, UO, DAOC and a few small flops or ancient remnants like The Realm Online. Of course, both pre-2004 and from 2004-2010, the MMO field was growing in # games & # players. FFXI's strength was it had a large userbase from a divided launch (Japan), it was from a very popular franchise and launched on a console to bridge those franchise fans with the typical MMO platform, the PC. Not sure if SE knew the PC would be bigger in NA so launched it 1st or wanted to launch PC & PS2 simultaneously, but Sony pulling crap with the HDD might have delayed the PS2 launch by 5 months. Sony gutted any longer PS2 base in NA by discontinuing the HDD after late 2004. And FFXI launched with the success of the Final Fantasy name behind it, 1.5 years of content added and kinks worked out (and the importers had been posting early reports in English from FFXI and what it was like, including exploring RotZ zones back at its launch since late 2002); FFXIV 2.0 will have the impression from its failed 1.0 launch around it and a much wider array of competitors and all the negative experiences people had from that earlier era all over the internet (contrast FFXIV 1.0 players' reports with FFXI pre-NA launch importer's reports). FFXI & FFXIV is indeed a tale of two worlds worlds apart.
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#131 Dec 29 2011 at 11:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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@bsphil

No surprise there, and considering Yioshi wrote almost a week ago that he wants to run the game at around 2000 players during peak hours (probably meant as Japanese population during the weekend) I would not be surprised at all if after the monthly billing starts that they decide to drop the servers from 18 to somewhere between 6 and 9 servers.


If they were looking at regional servers for example, they could easily consolidate the EU folks into 1-2 servers and the NA folks into 2-3 servers... considering a good portion of posters have given numbers between 150-650 across most servers with only a handful going above 800 and most likely a weekend evening time block.


At least the numbers or rather the trend shown is much more accurate than having several folks going on the official forums and saying everything is "hunky-dory" because they ran around Central Uldah and "counted" 200 people there and several dozen sitting at the Ifrit crystal site. I mean sure, so what you are telling us is that 2 small areas have people "packed" which may total to 1% of the entire world in the game but the other 99% of the world may be completely vacant ala simulating a solo game?


A "worst case scenario" would be if somewhere between 50%-75% of the total population would drop after billing starts would servers be merged below 5 which would be "somewhat" shocking. Considering that they are doing double and triple overtime to keep the tiny player base happy as well as creating a whole new game, had the game done decently they could of put that time and effort into making 2 large expansions easily. And no Version 2.0 is not an expansion.


As far as the PC community goes it seems EU/JP/NA are pretty much done until Version 2.0 comes out considering how unforgiving the MMO community currently is. As far as for the PS3 release and a target audience going towards "possibly"

A. Hardcore/Casual console players
B. Hardcore/Casual MMO players
C. Casual/Diehard FF fans
D. Casual/Diehard FF online fans

I don't see how it is really going to attract past the D group for the most part. Separating A B C and D groups further into the EU/JP/NA groups, I don't see how they are going to attract the EU/NA group especially since those 2 groups play MMOs mainly on the PC, hence in part why I talked how unpopular MMOs are outside of the PC in my previous post. If there are no delays, and chances are there will be, we are looking at re-packaging a game that is going to be over 2 years old and selling it as a brand spanking new product. We already know that the first 90 days or so many people are going to try it, what I wonder is how are things going to look after the 6 month mark of the release of 2.0.


If the game skyrockets that would be amazing, but if the numbers fall back to what they are now or worsen then what? Yes FFXIV was done in house but since it is a flagship title to the company it does affect them all around financially. And yes even if a huge patch or expansion is considered flawless by some, it does in no way shape or form guarantee that a huge influx of long term players will come back. As history has shown in the past 8 years out of the 500 MMOs out there (or the roughly 50+ P2P MMOs out there) only 2 have had a huge success or rather a huge comeback (i.e. had less than 20k players at one point and currently maintains its P2P model as well as a stable population). Eve Online being one of them that had decent numbers in the beginning but because of such a horrible launch and a mediocre release, the numbers fell to somewhere between 10k-20k players before picking up steam.
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#132 Dec 29 2011 at 11:24 PM Rating: Good
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@zoogelio

Thank you so much for that post Zoo. Could of not have said it better, and you just touched on several (yet extremely important) factors that affect MMOs and how greatly things have changed from then till now. I remember Ever Quest II having problems as well for months on end and even having bugs in quests that lasted quite a while. Server upkeep and stability were much more expensive back then and definitely caused headaches to a bunch of companies especially if it was their 1st venture. Even back then games like Free Space which was extremely popular tried to break into the whole "having 64 people online" at a single time for huge battles. They had problems that just never seemed to end for months.



Information flowed at a snail's pace back then hence also around that time and since MMOs were still relatively "new" for a whole lot of folks back then, they just didn't know any better. There was no such thing as having official forums or a dozen of fan sites. You have now over 2 dozen popular gaming magazines around the world not including the online ones. You have review sites such as Meta-critic and 4gamer.net that goes in depth about twice a year showing every single possible gaming statistic across all of Japan's prefectures. You have different forms of communication such as silly Twitter and viral videos loaded up in YouTube all in 1080p. People obtain information from German sites, Japanese sites etc. and most of it gets translated within 72 hours especially if it is relevant to a gaming community. Even if the people that defend this game consider most or all of those forms of communication to be "laughable" that is perfectly fine. It does not however, make them any less important to these companies and to a good portion of the gaming community that may follow some or all of those types of media outlets.



It is part of the reason why I am confused as to why people are 'amazed" or "shocked" when the Moogle fight was won after a day or how Ifrit was conquered after a couple of days. What even shocked me more is that someone in the company "cried" that they defeated that particular boss so fast. Question: Are they living under a rock? Do they not understand how information and the silly internet has evolved over the past decade. For example back in the day games like Ever Quest II had no ! on NPCs, you had to find everything yourself. Those nifty dungeon maps? Guess what Ever Quest II had tons of dungeons but no maps what so ever. Yes you had to memorize the dungeon and mob placements completely, lest you wanted a wipe. It wasn't until months later at a time that people would use Paint to draw an inaccurate picture of a dungeon and upload it. People hailed COP as being tough, sure a couple of battle were challenging but not much else. I remember at that time there were only 2 sites that had information on the different COP chapters but they were rather incomplete.



Fast forward to 2011 and welcome to the present. You now have video commentaries and quite a few of these MMO games showing you some of the best kiting paths, all the moves that the bosses do after a certain % or time, showing you all entire landscape and possible obstacles. YouTube has videos showing you some of the best ways to solo world monsters and how to traverse dungeons, some of the best combination for class set ups to take that oh so challenging boss down. Commentary not enough? Great you can have it in 1080p with a wiki link showing you very detailed information on said bosses or dungeons. And people till this day are shocked that obstacles/events/raids/bosses are overcome much faster compared to years ago when things took weeks to defeat or months? Sure if it was like AV or the original PW sure, but those usually constitute 1% of difficulty in MMOs in general. And considering most MMOs "age" much faster now, they keep turning the difficulty level down a notch to get those casuals in (nothing wrong with casuals, it's just the way MMOs have handled them in the past 7 years that has been very detrimental). Look how EXP charts are constantly being toned down after a game comes out compared to games back in the day. Let me put it to you this way... when Odin and Bahamut and insert whatever boss you thought was epic "back in the day" and place it in FFXIV... don't be shocked or surprised at all that they get pounced within 72 hours or less.



That is part why some of these games that had very shaky launches and mediocre releases were able to recoup after 2 years or so because people were not informed, and there was a fraction of the competition as we have now. Games were able to 'shape up" during that time, and FFXI's history is definitely a special one since it came out in Japan 1st and was able to slowly work its way out of that initial shaky launch and release. And it was during this "golden era 1996-2004" that some companies were able to come up with half a dozen or up to a dozen expansion packs. In Eve Online's case it is now 15 expansions.



And as far as 2.0 being a Hail Mary... it pretty much has to be at this point. Average 2.0 will not cut it. Above average 2.0 will not cut it. Even if it given off that 2.0 is good all around in the end it will be up to the "masses" aka not just the 10k or less diehard fans that will determine if they will accept it or not. In terms of sports it would have to be like A. You are in the World Series: 7th game, you are down by 3 and the bases are loaded. You need a Grand Slam to win. B. You are in the NBA Finals: 7th game, you are down by 2 points and there are 2.0 seconds on the clock, you are on the other side of the court. You need to shoot off the ball from way back there to score and take the win. Version 2.0 cannot be anything less for the masses that Square Enix wants to bring back... for the 10k or so players sure they will accept less... for the rest of the gamers... not possible.

FFXI and FFXIV are definitely 2 worlds apart (I would say at opposite ends of a galaxy).
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#133 Dec 30 2011 at 12:32 AM Rating: Decent
4 posts
I must say, having read almost all relivant posts on this forum since launch, Ambrosia has had more Eloquence in their 6 posts than anything I have read before. I agree utterly with the 6th post, the world is different, and for MMO's I really don't see it being very benifical. Information is power, and players have so much more information avaliable now and such greater speed than in 2002 at FF11 launch, is so true, making ALL the difference in boss fights, dungeon mapping, etc. Also, I truly miss the days of FF 1,4,6 for the NES and SNES... they HAD to work, no patches, no carrots of DLC, no @!&% ups.

Now Companies know they can release utter crap and fix it later if they want, they got the money up front for their "Name" alone. The problem for now is that all these gamers are in their middle 20's to 40's now, that played on the NES and SNES, and loved those games...cause they worked. Now games don't work off the bat and we get ****** and don't play anymore out of spite, because we have kid's or a career, and don't have 12 hours at a time to **** around anymore. Don't sell what don't work.... Blizzard knows this, look how **** long it's taken Diablo III to come out, look how old you are if you remember Diablo comming out. I guarantee that it will work better at launch than any game in the last 3 years at least.

Also, to stay on topic for thread:

Total players: English battle = 134, Gather&Craft = 64
All others battle = 70, Gather&Craft = 72

Grand total: 340

Right in line with last post from tables of Wutai, pretty consistantly horrible if you ask me.




Edited, Dec 30th 2011 1:35am by Murundi
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#134 Dec 30 2011 at 1:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, I'm getting tired of paying $60 for a half-finished game. I was under the impression when DLC first started coming out that it would be a way to add extra adventures and such to a game. Now, they just release a portion of the finished product, and then sell the rest to you at $10 a shot every few months. I'm looking at you Dragon Age!

The other new convention that irks me is this whole achievement thing. I think it's ridiculous that a game has 8 hours of playthrough for the actual story, but claims 40 hours of playtime by including these trophies (Red Dead Redemption). I haven't picked up an FPS shooter in years either. Online play is supposed to be a supplement to a great story, isn't it? Or even worse, requiring multiple playthroughs, which I'm not a big fan of either. I played some of the FF games over and over because they were such a solid and entertaining game, and I wanted to see if I could do it better, or different. By changing up your characters and such, you could play FF I a number of different ways. Now, I have to play games like Demon's Souls through 4 or 5 times to "see it all". Garbage.

Add to all that the complete lack of innovation in most games nowadays, and I start to wonder wth is going on. Sure, FF XIII and FF XIV may not have got it perfect, but at least they're trying. What always excited me about FF games, was that it was always just different enough from one to the other. Put Modern Warfare, Uncharted, Call of Duty, or any of their sequels in and you just might not be able to tell the difference. Compare the sales of those games to something like Ico, or Ikaruga, though, and you begin to see why there's no innovation any more.

I stick with FF because it seems to be the only game I can pop in where the only time I think "Hey, I've seen that before", is on the back of a Chocobo, or when I bump into Cid. Proud to be a fanboi I guess :)
#135 Dec 30 2011 at 1:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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LebargeX wrote:
Yeah, I'm getting tired of paying $60 for a half-finished game. I was under the impression when DLC first started coming out that it would be a way to add extra adventures and such to a game. Now, they just release a portion of the finished product, and then sell the rest to you at $10 a shot every few months. I'm looking at you Dragon Age!

The other new convention that irks me is this whole achievement thing. I think it's ridiculous that a game has 8 hours of playthrough for the actual story, but claims 40 hours of playtime by including these trophies (Red Dead Redemption). I haven't picked up an FPS shooter in years either. Online play is supposed to be a supplement to a great story, isn't it? Or even worse, requiring multiple playthroughs, which I'm not a big fan of either. I played some of the FF games over and over because they were such a solid and entertaining game, and I wanted to see if I could do it better, or different. By changing up your characters and such, you could play FF I a number of different ways. Now, I have to play games like Demon's Souls through 4 or 5 times to "see it all". Garbage.

Add to all that the complete lack of innovation in most games nowadays, and I start to wonder wth is going on. Sure, FF XIII and FF XIV may not have got it perfect, but at least they're trying. What always excited me about FF games, was that it was always just different enough from one to the other. Put Modern Warfare, Uncharted, Call of Duty, or any of their sequels in and you just might not be able to tell the difference. Compare the sales of those games to something like Ico, or Ikaruga, though, and you begin to see why there's no innovation any more.

I stick with FF because it seems to be the only game I can pop in where the only time I think "Hey, I've seen that before", is on the back of a Chocobo, or when I bump into Cid. Proud to be a fanboi I guess :)


I agree with everything you say save the bit about FFXIV. FFXIV is what you get when no one tries or has any care or pride in the work. There was nothing, NOTHING at launch that showed any effort or passion whatsoever. Everything from the network architecture, to the game coding, to the <everything said about FFXIV game launch ever>. It's the epitome of "Slap Final Fantasy name on it, and the sheeple will buy it."

Edited, Dec 30th 2011 2:21am by hexaemeron
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#136 Dec 30 2011 at 1:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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But hey, look, Aetheryte camps have so many people! It's so busy! I saw 30 people at one the other day!

/rollseyes, as much as "Mining 20,000 times for this achievement" is worthy content, I think I'll be playing XI in January.
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#137 Dec 30 2011 at 2:20 AM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
Yeah, I'm getting tired of paying $60 for a half-finished game. I was under the impression when DLC first started coming out that it would be a way to add extra adventures and such to a game. Now, they just release a portion of the finished product, and then sell the rest to you at $10 a shot every few months. I'm looking at you Dragon Age!

The other new convention that irks me is this whole achievement thing. I think it's ridiculous that a game has 8 hours of playthrough for the actual story, but claims 40 hours of playtime by including these trophies (Red Dead Redemption). I haven't picked up an FPS shooter in years either. Online play is supposed to be a supplement to a great story, isn't it? Or even worse, requiring multiple playthroughs, which I'm not a big fan of either. I played some of the FF games over and over because they were such a solid and entertaining game, and I wanted to see if I could do it better, or different. By changing up your characters and such, you could play FF I a number of different ways. Now, I have to play games like Demon's Souls through 4 or 5 times to "see it all". Garbage.

Add to all that the complete lack of innovation in most games nowadays, and I start to wonder wth is going on. Sure, FF XIII and FF XIV may not have got it perfect, but at least they're trying. What always excited me about FF games, was that it was always just different enough from one to the other. Put Modern Warfare, Uncharted, Call of Duty, or any of their sequels in and you just might not be able to tell the difference. Compare the sales of those games to something like Ico, or Ikaruga, though, and you begin to see why there's no innovation any more.

I stick with FF because it seems to be the only game I can pop in where the only time I think "Hey, I've seen that before", is on the back of a Chocobo, or when I bump into Cid. Proud to be a fanboi I guess :)


I agree with everything you say save the bit about FFXIV. FFXIV is what you get when no one tries or has any care or pride in the work. There was nothing, NOTHING at launch that showed any effort or passion whatsoever. Everything from the network architecture, to the game coding, to the <everything said about FFXIV game launch ever>. It's the epitome of "Slap Final Fantasy name on it, and the sheeple will buy it."

Edited, Dec 30th 2011 2:21am by hexaemeron


Well it's good to know I'm not the only out there with these thoughts running around in my head. :)

And I'll concede to your point about FF XIV. I have to wait for the PS3 release, so I haven't actually played it. From all that I've read though, it sounds like I'll be better off for the wait.
#138 Dec 30 2011 at 3:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Funny how this turned into a discussion of recent game development in general,
but I agree. Back in the golden days of "online-is-an-exception", games were
finished before they were sold. Now it`s pretty much the other way round. We
are slapped with half-assed unfinished games, and if they sell well, they may
be finished with endless streams of DLC and hotfixes some months later.

That`s actually a point where consoles (still) vastly outshine PC games; since
an internet connection can not be automatically assumed (in all cases), the
games tend to be graced with at least some polish at launch.
#139 Dec 30 2011 at 8:46 AM Rating: Excellent
This is why I just wait now, I don't even bother with new games, unless I REALLY REALLY REALLY want it. If you own a PC, steam always has great sales around the holidays, and even year round. Fall-Out 3 Game of the Year editon, 5$, can't go wrong there, bought Bioshock 2 and RE5 last year, 4.99$ each. If you're patient enough and can wait about a year, you'll never pay more than 19.99$ for a game. Cept Call of Duty cause idiots gobble up that **** like it's candy, regardless that it's been the same game for 4-5 titles now? Bought 1 used on Ps3, bought MW2... and that was it, never bought another or got download content.

Just look at Battlefield 3, game's been out what, 1 month on PC? Already 39.99$ in most places from 59.99$. If you can be patient, you can save some significant cash and feel that the game was actually worth the price you paid. 59.99$ as a going rate on new PS3 games, **** that, it's a rip-off considering most games now last you about 5 hours for one play through. As others have said, I don't consider trophies and such as content. Though, as long as people keep shelling out the big bucks for download content (which I have never paid for ever), and keep paying full price for a new game, companies will keep gouging.

So when I get criticized for paying 12.99$/month for an MMO, I usually just ask, how many games you buy this month new? If the answer is 1, I've already won cause I now I had more playtime in my MMO and saved about 45$. If you think, 1 game a month for 59.99$ for a year, that's 720$, not including taxes. That's a **** ton of money for something that doesn't add up to hours worth of entertainment.
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#140 Dec 30 2011 at 4:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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AkumaOkami wrote:
Sadly, you're right... in a way.
As much as I'd like this game to succeed, current numbers don't support that ever happening. They'll never be able to get all the money that they need for XIV and everything associated with it with these numbers.

But good thing they're a well established company with lots of revenue coming from different places, or XIV would already be history.


Their fiscal reports are made public. They're losing money hand over fist on XIV and they're not pulling what they've expected to from other areas. I'll agree that they're well established, but if where we've come from FFX to now (excluding the success of XI) is any indicator, their next title will be 'Final Fantasy XV: Chapter 11'.
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#141 Dec 30 2011 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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I'd play that. =/
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#142 Dec 30 2011 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
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what are the chances of square enix dropping FFXIV ?
#143 Dec 30 2011 at 6:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Now? 0 percent chance. Regardless of how poor it does, I think Square's pride won't permit them to drop XIV for a couple years.

Maybe after 2-3 years of total failure will they drop it. Even then, it's a stretch, because in their eyes, it'll be a failure then (Even though it already kind of is)
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#144 Dec 30 2011 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know... Pride must eventually yield to reality and clearly, they've been (rightfully) taking it on the chin for 1.5 years now. How much longer will they choose to hemorrhage money?
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#145 Dec 30 2011 at 6:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Probably another couple years.

For now, they believe that they'll succeed, or they wouldn't even be putting this much effort into the updates, and all the customer care (However much there is, at least by telling us what they're doing with "letters from the producer")and the random maintenance they perform.

So, until they realize that 2.0 has totally flopped (if it happens), I'd say give or take a two years before they cut their losses.

*EDIT* random grammatical errors. Coffee induced jitters.

Edited, Dec 30th 2011 8:00pm by AkumaOkami
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#146 Dec 30 2011 at 10:21 PM Rating: Excellent
I remember hearing about this somewhere, but wasn't the majority of players on FFXI on the PS2 console? If so, wouldn't it be kind of logical to assume the majority of players for FFXIV would be on PS3? I think maybe SE is hedging on the fact that since they held back on the PS3 release that the will still get a huge boon of players as long as they hurry up and get their proverbial sh*t together.

Personally? As long as the PS3 beta/release goes off without a hitch, this game will be just fine. SE will be walking a tightrope when the time comes though. Can't let down the MMO market twice on the same game and expect anything to survive the aftermath.
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#147 Dec 31 2011 at 12:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Been reading through some of the thread but wanted to jump in here with my thoughts.

Now aside from XI (if you could call it starting at launch for me which was Dec. of NA release) I've never been at the very beginning of an MMO launch. That being said, I so wish the current system and content was in place a year ago.

Basically I got the CE, played a bit, got to ~15 and quit partly because of the stability of the game in general, partly simply due to the sluggish UI, battles, and so forth and lastly the content. Finally today I felt like giving it another shot from upwards of a 8+ month break to see what these latest changes have made. Video is also being uploaded to Youtube as well for those who may be curious. Not live yet but give it a couple hours. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EgECUl2VZM&feature=youtu.be

Since I saw people shouting out their server populations, I too thought I could join in (woot, Wutai server haha)... Tonight as of 12:45 EST (Saturday), just by searching levels 10 at a time, we had 365 on. The downside of a late night for most is offset by Christmas / New Year's and that most people have time off and it's a weekend so gamers will be online. If this is really as busy as the servers are as others said, I do fear for what will become of the game once subscriptions hit even though I applaud SE for their art and music.

My thoughts otherwise:

1. Rotated / semi-auto attack system and far better targeting. I enjoy this greatly.
2. Searchable bazzars. Very nice.
3. Far far faster UI response with mouse as well as commands. Again, very nice.
4. No spacebar jumping well... Ok I've honestly become acustomed to WoW so hitting space will bring up the log, convenient to chat though for sure.
5. Alt-Tab FYI STILL crashes the game. Really SE?
6. Not sure about how many new quests and other guides / content has been added save for Ifrit / Moogles etc. but it still seems that it's harder to enjoy it all when there's barely anyone playing - solo-attitude or not.
7. Finally it does seem that my performance / framerate hovers invariably between 60/30 with many camera clips / chops in between. Only sometimes is the motion fluid and more often than not the camera doesn't like to zoom in/out and move smoothly at the same time while running for example. I know they said the game is supposed to be difficult to max but at the same time if I'm having sluggish performance moreso on the camera side and choking framerates, it doesn't probably bode well for someone on more budget hardware.

While again part of me really wishes for the game to do well, I can't imagine even XI was this bad on launch, let alone a year into the game. I am grateful for SE allowing free play but there is still so much that needs to be done that yes the game feels unfinished (and I know you guys said there are many more plans so I'm not trying to equate that it is).

If this was how it launched a year ago I'd probably subscribe but unfortunately as of now, I just feel there's still not enough justification to shell out the fee.



Edited, Dec 31st 2011 1:09am by Reallink
#148 Dec 31 2011 at 12:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Reallink wrote:
If this was how it launched a year ago I'd probably subscribe but unfortunately as of now, I just feel there's still not enough justification to shell out the fee.


So the game, as it is now, would have been worth ~$14 per month last year but, now that its price is lowered to $10 per month, there's no justification to subscribe? *headexplode*
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#149 Dec 31 2011 at 12:24 AM Rating: Good
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^in response to reallink:

I'm looking forward to being able to jump too. The other thing that really bothers me is not being able to strafe. The whole turning completely to go in a direction thing is slow and outdated at this point.

Edited, Dec 31st 2011 1:25am by Transmigration
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#150 Dec 31 2011 at 12:42 AM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
Reallink wrote:
If this was how it launched a year ago I'd probably subscribe but unfortunately as of now, I just feel there's still not enough justification to shell out the fee.


So the game, as it is now, would have been worth ~$14 per month last year but, now that its price is lowered to $10 per month, there's no justification to subscribe? *headexplode*


Hi Kane,

Sorry I was not aware if the combo XI/XIV sub discount was still an active thing or if they actually did chose to lower the XIV subscription price from $15 to $10. While at $10 I would probably reconsider, there are still many real hurdles that the team has to fix and improve upon for more people to return / purchase the game new in my eyes. Again having never been part of a launch, it's not paying the $10 or whatever that's the big deal, it's having to pay for something that (barely) works. Had no problem paying my sub from day one for FFXI - why? Because that game worked a heck of a lot better than XIV even it's current state, at least for me. Again IMO but YMMV. Not expecting bug-free at all, but whether what I am trying to pinpoint is content, stability, overall feel or whatever, your company has an issue when after a year of F2P you barely have 10-20K people playing.

Edited, Dec 31st 2011 1:43am by Reallink

Transmigration wrote:
^in response to reallink:

I'm looking forward to being able to jump too. The other thing that really bothers me is not being able to strafe. The whole turning completely to go in a direction thing is slow and outdated at this point.

Edited, Dec 31st 2011 1:25am by Transmigration


Oh yeah, usually I've just turned the camera fast. Thought you could strafe though? Maybe not.

Edited, Dec 31st 2011 1:47am by Reallink

Edited, Dec 31st 2011 1:49am by Reallink
#151 Dec 31 2011 at 7:11 AM Rating: Good
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@State Alchemist

I agree the PS3 would have to go off without a hitch. Square Enix was able to merge the console and the MMO together something that is rarely done. To put it in perspective there have been only 3-4 MMOs that have gone into the console market. Of the over 500 MMOs on the website there are only 3-4 MMORPG games that comes to mind that were or are popular or semi-popular. Those are Final Fantasy XI, Fantasy Star Online and Ever Quest Online Adventures. I am not sure if any current MMO can captivate console owners (possibly the diehard fans of the Final Fantasy series who couldn’t play it on their PC, but I am not sure about everyone else... specifically talking about NA/EU).





@Murundi

Thanks for the compliment and taking the time reading all of my posts. With regards to Star Craft: Ghost they probably wanted to preserve the image of the company as well as the game. They realized had they released the game it would of probably done irreparable damage to both in the long run. And they probably spent millions of dollars and over 5 years or so before it lost steam. Part of the reason was "We were not able to execute [the game] at the level we wanted to." Despite Blizzard's announcements most people consider the project cancelled. And trust me Blizzard definitely has cancelled quite a few games.

http://kotaku.com/353890/blizzard-has-canceled-more-games-than-you-know-about

The same thing can be said with Diablo III (with regards to them avoiding any potential mishaps that may damage the name and the company). Things seemed peachy that there was going to be a release during the holidays but that was changed to a 2012 release. There must of been some alarming issues that rose up during that time to hold back a release for what may be potentially be several months and maybe even up to half a year than initially intended. Quoting from them "Ultimately, we feel that to deliver an awesome Diablo sequel that lives up to our expectations and yours as well, we should take a little more time and add further polish to a few different elements of the game." And another wonderful example is Guild Wars 2. Arena Net may very well be synonymous with the phrase "When it's done."

Just for kicks Google up:
"All Your History: Blizzard Part 2"
"All Your History: Blizzard Part 3"
"All Your History: Blizzard Part 4"

And pretty much what you said information you could get back in early 2000's pales in comparison to the sheer amount that one can get these days. One example is check up 'Social Media" from Wiki and tell me how much of that existed a decade ago. Another example is look up on "Search Engines" alone by Googling the following phrase:

"Two Decades of Internet Search Evolution:"

Source from Georgia Institute of Technology.





@Those asking about the game shutting down:

At this moment in time, it is not possible for them to shut it down (I would say a 99% certainty). They are going to double and triple time this project till Version 2.0 comes out. 1.19 ushered a patch that allowed players to level up much quicker than previously allowed and was given the green light and the A-OK from Naoki Yoshida since he wanted folks to experience what the game had to offer (namely endgame content: you can max out all 7 classes in less than 2.5 weeks now). Roughly over a half year later the billing is about to commence. I think after the 6 month mark... after Version 2.0 comes out they will make yet another major evaluation. Sure we all know that people are going to gobble up 2.0 and with the PS3 as an addition expect the population to "most likely" soar up. The question is how will things look 6 months later.

Goal = The company's numbers of what they consider a healthy population base which directly affects the potential income. Note: Not to be confused by what diehard fans consider a healthy population... the game can be played by Two and a Half Men and they would consider it a wild success.

A. They have reached and surpassed their goal by a considerable amount and will continue the P2P model and start or continue any held up expansions.

B. They have reached their goal by a small or modest amount and will pretty much follow A's path but the expansions may take longer to be anticipated/released.

C. They failed to meet their goal by a modest amount. This is sort of a grey area because they have a bunch of options. Chances are they may halt any expansions most likely and keep working at the game and see how it improves on a monthly basis. Depending on how much they missed the mark they don't have to stick to the P2P model. But usually this becomes a slippery slope. They can become a hybrid model with different levels of service or go F2P and make it a Cash Vanity Shop or a Pay to Win Shop.

D. They fail to meet their goal by a huge amount and after 6 months the population drops to "somewhat" similar numbers to what we have now. They will have much less options now than in C and most likely go straight to F2P (with possible different F2P options).

E. They fail to bring in Gary Busey to play their game. In this situation tell your loved ones that you love them and give them big hugs. A Nuclear Strike will commence ending the world as we know it. The 1% that survives will usher in a new era. Oh and by the way when you make a new civilization... and Mega Man is remade by a miracle... please don't abandon him again. Thank you.

F. If after all options A-E are exhausted... they will still keep the game running at 4 servers or less and become a statistic like almost every P2P MMO that has graced this planet (especially the fantasy type MMO) in the past 8 years and probably shut down several years later. And not come out anywhere near the number of mini/major expansions that FFXI had.

Even though the game was made in house Wada and Friends cannot settle for anything less. Shutting down the game (especially prematurely) will have an adverse affect to the company in various ways not only with the removal of more than half the Final Fantasy staff and most likely Wada stepping down himself but it may as well affect some or most of their other departments one way or another (no matter how small it may seem on the surface). The shareholders/investors/executives/board committee will make sure of those people that need to "step down" will do so in an orderly fashion.





Oh and one last tidbit:

According to Wada in 2003 he "announced that there were over 200,000 subscribers to Final Fantasy XI, allowing the company to break even and start making a profit." Let's say for the sake of this discussion that Final Fantasy XIV only needs half that number to be profitable or 100,000. Considering that the current population for Japanese players is hovering around 10k and for the NA/EU players most likely less by a considerable amount, it wouldn't be too farfetched to say that the company "may" have only around 20k folks or so. That would be 1/5th of the total needed roughly to break even, if they need similar numbers to FFXI then you are looking at 1/10th to break even. If half of those current active folks do not subscribe, and have roughly 10k after billing starts, then you would be looking at 1/20th of what is needed to break even.
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