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S-E feels the backlash from FFXIII with FFXIII-2 sales.Follow

#1 Dec 21 2011 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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http://www.gamesradar.com/final-fantasy-xiii-2-debuts-1-japan-barely-scratches-ffxiiis-launch-record/

Final Fantasy XIII-2 fell short of its predecessor's debut numbers by 65%.

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 3:20pm by Zorvan
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#2 Dec 21 2011 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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I can't say I'm surprised. A LOT of people got stung by 13 and then 14.
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#3 Dec 21 2011 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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hexaemeron wrote:
I can't say I'm surprised. A LOT of people got stung by 13 and then 14.

I think what this does show is that, contrary to the fanbots who all use FFXIII's sales as proof everyone loved it and it was a great game, in reality the original FFXIII sold on brand devotion alone.

Added with FFXIV, the faith is shaken. All those people are not willing to just blindly snag a title merely because it has Final Fantasy in the title any more. FFXIII, along with XIV, did more damage to the brand than a hundred Spirits Within flops could ever manage.

It also tells us that the Japanese audience is no more likely to blindly support S-E any more than the NA audience is, which is particularly telling as FF was on par with cult-status in the Land of the Rising Sun.


Edited, Dec 21st 2011 3:37pm by Zorvan
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#4 Dec 21 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Yet, IGN has this article, http://ps3.ign.com/articles/121/1215251p1.html

Too funny. I guess IGN isn't surprised by the blow to the Xbox...now, were those number for XIII Worldwide sales statistic, or Japan alone? Cause if we're talking North American/Japanese sales on Xbox for the 1st one, that's going to make a huge difference. The xbox just isn't all that popular in Japan...



Edited, Dec 21st 2011 4:00pm by Montsegurnephcreep
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#5 Dec 21 2011 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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looks like some one has a site that is desperate for hits... and you fell for it >.> Seriously 500K+ is still a success, wait til it hits Europe and the US to see if it flops.
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#6 Dec 21 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Perrin, I dunno if half a million copies in a country that consists of a population of roughly 127 million, give or take, doesn't sound like a whole lot... Idk I could be wrong...
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#7 Dec 21 2011 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
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If its as great of a improvement as people say it is, word of mouth will eventually work its magic.

I think saying people have lost faith in the final fantasy name isn't true. Had they said "We're releasing FFVII-2!" They would have sold millions. People have just lost faith in FFXIII.

The Beauty of Final Fantasy is that every title reinvents itself. And no matter how awful you thought this iteration was, XV is going to be absolutely nothing like it. For better or worse.
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#8 Dec 21 2011 at 5:48 PM Rating: Default
Come on guys, I was just waiting for the perfect opportunity to bring this into discussion.

The only way Square can redeem itself is:

Remake

Final Fantasy VII

Period
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#9 Dec 21 2011 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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I will be burned at the stake for this, but FFVII was my 2nd least favorite FF title... :P

Actually, I wouldn't mind if they remade it and I could give it another try since apparently I missed what was so awesome about it the first time around.
#10 Dec 21 2011 at 6:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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GiftedChild wrote:
Come on guys, I was just waiting for the perfect opportunity to bring this into discussion.

The only way Square can redeem itself is:

Remake

Final Fantasy VII

Period

Why not play FFVII as-is?

It's the same game you know and love, and that's exactly what you want. Best of all, it's already released.
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#11 Dec 21 2011 at 6:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
looks like some one has a site that is desperate for hits... and you fell for it >.> Seriously 500K+ is still a success, wait til it hits Europe and the US to see if it flops.

500k for a Final Fantasy title in Japan is not a success.
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#12 Dec 21 2011 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
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Almalexia wrote:
GiftedChild wrote:
Come on guys, I was just waiting for the perfect opportunity to bring this into discussion.

The only way Square can redeem itself is:

Remake

Final Fantasy VII

Period
Why not play FFVII as-is?

It's the same game you know and love, and that's exactly what you want. Best of all, it's already released.
Because a polished **** is shinier than a regular one.
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#13 Dec 21 2011 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Perrin, I dunno if half a million copies in a country that consists of a population of roughly 127 million, give or take, doesn't sound like a whole lot... Idk I could be wrong...


Depending on the site you look at, it's 360 numbers and those don't really matter in Asia. Some sites are claiming the 500k is on 360, which would be amazing, some are claiming total which would be bad. As I said, I think I'll withold judgement until a wider release. I know that maybe half my friends are really excited and didn't like XIII and the other half are like me and enjoyed it but are looking forward to XIII-2 but cautiously hoping it's not like X-2 ^.^
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#14 Dec 21 2011 at 6:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Remaking FFVII would probably be a bad idea. There's some kind of magic there with the original release that I feel would be lost with a remake.

Horrible translation, cheesy blocky graphics, over-hyped moves/summons/limit breaks that would all need to be redone would be lost or changed.

I also have stayed away from FF remakes in general, unless they weren't released here. Like FFII/FFIII. FFIV, for example, their respective DS/PSP remakes seemed to change way too much from the simple formula.

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 4:37pm by UltKnightGrover
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#15 Dec 21 2011 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalexia wrote:
Why not play FFVII as-is?

It's the same game you know and love, and that's exactly what you want. Best of all, it's already released.


Because a FFVII remake is just a hollow request and nobody who clamours for it actually realizes just how easy it is to pass up a remake of a game that nearly everybody has played at least twice.
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#16 Dec 21 2011 at 6:45 PM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Remaking FFVII would probably be a bad idea. There's some kind of magic there with the original release that I feel would be lost with a remake.

Horrible translation, cheesy blocky graphics, over-hyped moves/summons/limit breaks that would all need to be redone would be lost or changed.

I also have stayed away from FF remakes in general, unless they weren't released here. Like FFII/FFIII. FFIV, for example, their respective DS/PSP remakes seemed to change way too much from the simple formula.

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 4:37pm by UltKnightGrover


I personally don't see the need for a VII remake, however, because of Advent Children and the other spinoffs it does have a graphical precendece that would retain the charm... I think.

What I personally want is a new FF game that nails it for about 80% of the population right off the bat. Maybe one that starts in a medievil swords and sworcery black/red/white mage type world, and the second half of the game transitions into something all funky futuristic. It could follow a similar journey as in previous FF's, say when Cecil becomes a Paladin type moments... I believe it was Lufia that started at the boss battle and then made you work your way up to your awesome powers? Sticks and stones dudes lose a major battle "gasp a FF ending on a bad note", credits roll, BAM! You're in the future as some stupid spikey haired adolecent with a squeaky voice, your adventure lead you to some oddly familiar ruins pre-credits....

Then again I'm drinking, so anything sounds cool right now. In fact, I'm going to play rad racer with my cardboard 2tone 3D glasses (because my wife won't let me bu... er because I don't have a 3d monitor)
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#17 Dec 21 2011 at 7:17 PM Rating: Decent
They need to remake it, simply from a business perspective.

I said this at the beginning and I will continue to say this until the remake is released...

The single greatest mistake Square made, at the turn of the century, was to completely ignore it's fan bases' plea for the FFVII remake.

Square Enix's official response on why they couldn't be remaking FFVII was beyond retarded. They were concerned with the original development team busy with some other projects.. (yup, namely the failed 13, 14 and 13-2) and unable to joint venture on this new remake project. And they were worried that the development may take up to 10 years. Well, little did they know, it's been almost 10 years since they released that statement. Oh and guess what, if they had FFVII remake rolled out this Christmas, they wouldn't be worrying about losing revenues.

And just to get everyone a rough idea why a remake is necessary to bring Square back to life... This is taken directly from Wiki:
Quote:

Final Fantasy VII was both a critical and commercial success, and set several sales records. Within three days of its release in Japan, the game had sold 2.3 million copies. This popularity inspired thousands of retailers in North America to break street dates in September to meet public demand for the title. In the game's debut weekend in North America, it sold 330,000 copies, and had reached sales of 500,000 units in less than three weeks. The momentum built in the game's opening weeks continued for several months; Sony announced the game had sold one million copies on the continent by early December, prompting business analyst Edward Williams from Monness, Crespi, Hardt & Co. to comment, "Sony redefined the role-playing game (RPG) category and expanded the conventional audience with the launch of Final Fantasy VII". Final Fantasy VII had sold over 9.8 million copies worldwide including Final Fantasy VII International as of December 2005, making it the highest-selling Final Fantasy title. Square's announcement that Final Fantasy VII would be produced for Sony rather than Nintendo and that it would not be based on the Final Fantasy SGI demo was met with discontent among gamers. The PlayStation Network release of the game was downloaded 100,000 times during its first two weeks of release, making it the fastest-selling PlayStation game on the PlayStation Network. As of May 2010, the game has sold 10 million copies worldwide.


So, there you have it kids, numbers speak for itself.

500k copies... lmfao, FF7 sold 2.3 million copies in Japan in first 3 days of it's release. 500k within 3 weeks of it's release in North America and continued the record sale until 10 million copies were sold world wide.

If that is not a statement on it's own, I don't know what is.

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#18 Dec 21 2011 at 7:27 PM Rating: Good
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Wait, that game already came out? Well doesn't matter, I wouldn't have nough it anyway, FFXIII was a horrible disappointment.
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#19 Dec 21 2011 at 7:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Square Enix just needs to get back to its roots of making a quality, story-driven RPG.

Forget making an overly complex battle system, or making the entire game have an over-the-shoulder perspective, or focusing more on the voice acting than the dialogue itself, etc... just give me a game with characters who I can care about, and a hero who doesn't look like a cross between an 10-year-old boy and a slice of veal.

An epic storyline must have an epic setting. This means *drumroll* a world map! Hey SE, remember how cool and unique your world maps used to be? And do you know you can integrate a world map with over-the-shoulder perspective in cities/dungeons/random enemy encounters? Why not bring back this cool feature that almost all of your most well-regarded games had?

And how about a storyline that doesn't feel like the beginning of "The Phantom Menace"? Try keeping the storyline more simple!

And please, for the love of god, stop integrating tutorials with the game's opening sequence! The opening sequence sets the tone for the rest of the game. If it feels slow and plodding because of a dumb tutorial (for people who are too lazy to just read the instructions), then why even try to have a cool opening sequence?

I'm still trying to cope with how bad FFXII was.
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#20 Dec 21 2011 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not surprised at all, FFXIII as i have said time and time again, was the worst FF ******* it was disliked by the majority, but sure enough the fanboy's said: "Oh it sold X Millions is not bad, is just a vocal Minority" Yet the game that is said to be 10X the game FFXIII was, sold 500K ? Really ? A FINAL FANTASY SOLD 500K ? Wait! A Numbered Final Fantasy for the current Gen sold 500k ?

Please Squenix! Stick to what you seem to know best now day's, re-releasing old ******** for handheld consoles and until you either get sakaguchi, or yazmat, do not touch a Final Fantasy ******* go play with parasite eve, or seiken detsu or better yet, go dig Front Mission another hole :/
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#21 Dec 21 2011 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Square Enix just needs to get back to its roots of making a quality, story-driven RPG.

Forget making an overly complex battle system, or making the entire game have an over-the-shoulder perspective, or focusing more on the voice acting than the dialogue itself, etc... just give me a game with characters who I can care about, and a hero who doesn't look like a cross between an 10-year-old boy and a slice of veal.

An epic storyline must have an epic setting. This means *drumroll* a world map! Hey SE, remember how cool and unique your world maps used to be? And do you know you can integrate a world map with over-the-shoulder perspective in cities/dungeons/random enemy encounters? Why not bring back this cool feature that almost all of your most well-regarded games had?

And how about a storyline that doesn't feel like the beginning of "The Phantom Menace"? Try keeping the storyline more simple!

And please, for the love of god, stop integrating tutorials with the game's opening sequence! The opening sequence sets the tone for the rest of the game. If it feels slow and plodding because of a dumb tutorial (for people who are too lazy to just read the instructions), then why even try to have a cool opening sequence?

I'm still trying to cope with how bad FFXII was.


FFXII was a great game <.< What are you talking about.
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#22 Dec 21 2011 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Square Enix just needs to get back to its roots of making a quality, story-driven RPG.

Forget making an overly complex battle system, or making the entire game have an over-the-shoulder perspective, or focusing more on the voice acting than the dialogue itself, etc... just give me a game with characters who I can care about, and a hero who doesn't look like a cross between an 10-year-old boy and a slice of veal.

An epic storyline must have an epic setting. This means *drumroll* a world map! Hey SE, remember how cool and unique your world maps used to be? And do you know you can integrate a world map with over-the-shoulder perspective in cities/dungeons/random enemy encounters? Why not bring back this cool feature that almost all of your most well-regarded games had?

And how about a storyline that doesn't feel like the beginning of "The Phantom Menace"? Try keeping the storyline more simple!

And please, for the love of god, stop integrating tutorials with the game's opening sequence! The opening sequence sets the tone for the rest of the game. If it feels slow and plodding because of a dumb tutorial (for people who are too lazy to just read the instructions), then why even try to have a cool opening sequence?


Interesting points, especially about the tutorial!
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#23 Dec 21 2011 at 8:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm still going to get it... not much else now that I'm done with Skyrim...

Edit:

Honestly, I'm trying to figure out why I'm still gaming any more... I tried some new MMO's, and they're not much better... Rift got old in about 3 months. I'm still holding out hope that when 2.0 comes out and I can play this on my PS3 it'll be worth the insanely long wait.

I would probably play FF XI again, if I could play it on my PS3 :)

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 6:27pm by LebargeX
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#24 Dec 21 2011 at 8:45 PM Rating: Excellent
LebargeX wrote:
I'm still going to get it... not much else now that I'm done with Skyrim...

Edit:

Honestly, I'm trying to figure out why I'm still gaming any more... I tried some new MMO's, and they're not much better... Rift got old in about 3 months. I'm still holding out hope that when 2.0 comes out and I can play this on my PS3 it'll be worth the insanely long wait.

I would probably play FF XI again, if I could play it on my PS3 :)

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 6:27pm by LebargeX


Ya, I think it's an issue for older gamers (by older I mean those of us who's first systems were the Atari and NES' as kids), so you may only be 25-30 right now. Graphics have taken over for most games as the #1 priority, where as in back in the day story and game play were far more important as they had to be! Skyrim is something that kind of backed off on the graphics a bit to aim for overall game play. Skyrim doesn't look horrible by any means, but you know it wasn't the end all be all for that game.

Ya, XIV looks superb, but I would of taken a hit on graphics for better game play and stories any day.
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#25 Dec 21 2011 at 9:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yup... kinda just feels like every game I turn on, the first thing I think is: "I've seen this all before." I guess FF XIV was trying to turn that thought around, but just went about it the wrong way.

I'll probably still pick up FF XIV, if for no reason other than that's probably going to be the only option I'll have by then for a decent game.....if they actually release it for PS3. I know they keep saying they will, but I'm still skeptical.
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#26 Dec 21 2011 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Thayos wrote:
And please, for the love of god, stop integrating tutorials with the game's opening sequence! The opening sequence sets the tone for the rest of the game. If it feels slow and plodding because of a dumb tutorial (for people who are too lazy to just read the instructions), then why even try to have a cool opening sequence?


Interesting points, especially about the tutorial!


I've always thought tutorials are moronic in RPGs unless you're specifically talking about something like the finer details of involved crafting systems or summat -- you know, optional things you purposely go out of your way for. "To move forward tilt the left analog forward. To interact with something, press the X/A button."

r u srs?

Egoraptor sums it up really well in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM when it comes to new games treating its players like moronic sacks of ****. We didn't have to deal with this back in the day because you learned by playing, and I wish they'd bring that back. Plus, its even more stupid today when you realize that virtually all shooters, Gods of War, Zelda-alikes, and JRPGs are clones of one another for the most part.

If you have a real action combat system in your RPG (like Tales of Abyss/Vesperia, Star Ocean 3/4) then I understand taking 5 minutes to make sure people got the basics down pat. But seriously, FFXIII's needed less than 20 seconds of glancing at it to figure out "DURRR HIT AUTO-ATTACK!!! DURRR SWITCH PARADIGMS!!!" because in maybe 1% of the situations did you ever need to manually select an ability (and usually it was Army of One/Highwind anyway).

We don't need tutorials on how to open chests, we don't need tutorials on how to run forward, and we don't need tutorials on how to talk to a god damned NPC.

Thayos wrote:
I'm still trying to cope with how bad FFXII was.


Whether that's FFXII or you meant FFXIII I'll take either one because I disliked both. Both had terrible stories, boring combat systems, /yawnable "final bosses", and characters I didn't give a **** about (aside from Balthier and Sazh respectively, and if only those because they're the comic reliefs).

When it comes to stories I stopped bothering expecting anything from Square-Enix. If I want a good story out of a JRPG I'll turn to Namco Tales Studios as they started on a storyline written by an accomplished author and have continued in that vein ever since. SE's never been really incredible with stories, but at least they attempted with *SOME* effort in the past. Now they just don't even bother because they've gotten arrogant with the view of "It's Final Fantasy; they'll buy it. Cut, print, release."

LebargeX wrote:
I'm still going to get it... not much else now that I'm done with Skyrim...

Edit:

Honestly, I'm trying to figure out why I'm still gaming any more... I tried some new MMO's, and they're not much better... Rift got old in about 3 months. I'm still holding out hope that when 2.0 comes out and I can play this on my PS3 it'll be worth the insanely long wait.

I would probably play FF XI again, if I could play it on my PS3 :)


You don't want to play FFXI again, trust me as it'll just be a major disappointment. Tanaka's back to giving his full attention to FFXI and it shows with the "Massive nerfs to everything Abyssea has brought to the game. ***** new content, just redo all the old zones as it's easier."

I'd either try SWTOR (as the story immersion is incredible), hold out for FFXIV 2.0 (even if I personally think it'll be a wash), or just enjoy what consoles/offline games have to offer for a bit.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2011 12:37am by Viertel
#27 Dec 22 2011 at 12:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Square Enix just needs to get back to its roots of making a quality, story-driven RPG.

Forget making an overly complex battle system, or making the entire game have an over-the-shoulder perspective, or focusing more on the voice acting than the dialogue itself, etc... just give me a game with characters who I can care about, and a hero who doesn't look like a cross between an 10-year-old boy and a slice of veal.

An epic storyline must have an epic setting. This means *drumroll* a world map! Hey SE, remember how cool and unique your world maps used to be? And do you know you can integrate a world map with over-the-shoulder perspective in cities/dungeons/random enemy encounters? Why not bring back this cool feature that almost all of your most well-regarded games had?

And how about a storyline that doesn't feel like the beginning of "The Phantom Menace"? Try keeping the storyline more simple!

And please, for the love of god, stop integrating tutorials with the game's opening sequence! The opening sequence sets the tone for the rest of the game. If it feels slow and plodding because of a dumb tutorial (for people who are too lazy to just read the instructions), then why even try to have a cool opening sequence?

I'm still trying to cope with how bad FFXII was.

You summed it up nicely.

Look at Lost Odyssey by Sakaguchi after he left S-E.

If I were to put a piece of tape over the title and rename it Final Fantasy, it would completely fit ( albeit missing the chocobos and kupos ) as that game was what I had come to expect and love from an FF game.

I think the biggest problem is S-E pushed out the real talent behind the glory days of FF, and they have noone who can pick up the slack.

#28 Dec 22 2011 at 12:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Not shocked by the news at all. Both 13 and 14 were very lackluster. Even the most ardent of fans is no longer willing to shell out $60 because it has "Final Fantasy" in the title.

Hopefully SE gets he message and goes back to its roots. Gimme solid game play with a unique system for Magic/Abilities. Gimme epic story with solid dialogue. These are the things that made Final Fantasy so great. And these are the things that have been lacking for a long long time.

SE, you make THAT game and we'll come back and happily spend $60 bucks for it.
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#29 Dec 22 2011 at 12:29 AM Rating: Good
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Zorvan wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Square Enix just needs to get back to its roots of making a quality, story-driven RPG.

Forget making an overly complex battle system, or making the entire game have an over-the-shoulder perspective, or focusing more on the voice acting than the dialogue itself, etc... just give me a game with characters who I can care about, and a hero who doesn't look like a cross between an 10-year-old boy and a slice of veal.

An epic storyline must have an epic setting. This means *drumroll* a world map! Hey SE, remember how cool and unique your world maps used to be? And do you know you can integrate a world map with over-the-shoulder perspective in cities/dungeons/random enemy encounters? Why not bring back this cool feature that almost all of your most well-regarded games had?

And how about a storyline that doesn't feel like the beginning of "The Phantom Menace"? Try keeping the storyline more simple!

And please, for the love of god, stop integrating tutorials with the game's opening sequence! The opening sequence sets the tone for the rest of the game. If it feels slow and plodding because of a dumb tutorial (for people who are too lazy to just read the instructions), then why even try to have a cool opening sequence?

I'm still trying to cope with how bad FFXII was.

You summed it up nicely.

Look at Lost Odyssey by Sakaguchi after he left S-E.

If I were to put a piece of tape over the title and rename it Final Fantasy, it would completely fit ( albeit missing the chocobos and kupos ) as that game was what I had come to expect and love from an FF game.

I think the biggest problem is S-E pushed out the real talent behind the glory days of FF, and they have noone who can pick up the slack.



Thayos did some it up well. And those are some good points about Lost Odyssey. It had touching moments, and funny ones and it didn't seem too forced. It was JP in style but not too over the top, LO was just a classic JRPG. Maybe too classic with the battle system, that was showing it's age.

XIII on the other hand I hated, because it didn't feel like Final Fantasy. There was no variety in gameplay, I didn't feel like there was any exploration or customization; I don't even remember a weapon's name. VII was good, in part, because it felt like an adventure, with varied scenes and sequences/mini games; like a bit of RTS and snowboarding, chocobo races that immersed me in the world. XIII had none of that immersion. I think SE is relying way too much on FMV rather than making a game.

I've kinda let up on XIII, as it was a poor FF but an average JRPG overall, though the acting and translated dialog was horrendous, and made me wonder if they fired the decent translators from XI and XII. I did love the graphics, battle music and title theme (piano version) though.

I think a lot of other people realized what I and others realized and I hope for SE's sake that XIII-2 does well based on its merits; I just hope those merits are fully realized and don't include Vanille's nails-on-chalkboard voice.
#30 Dec 22 2011 at 3:49 AM Rating: Good
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I wish they can made a game like Nier... o wait a minute.. it is release by SE lol. Nier is what I would call an adventure. Excellent moving story ( If you don't felt emotional at story B; you are either dead or have no soul), a very kick *** soundtrack, plot twist, towns, ok combat... poor graphic( YES, I said it)
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#31 Dec 22 2011 at 5:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
looks like some one has a site that is desperate for hits... and you fell for it >.> Seriously 500K+ is still a success, wait til it hits Europe and the US to see if it flops.


525k sales in the first week? XIII sold over a million on day one. SE managed to alienate half of their offline playerbase somehow? I wonder...
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#32 Dec 22 2011 at 5:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Not doing a proper remake of FFVII and/or ChronoTrigger are perpetually stupid business decisions. It would be incredibly easy to squeeze some cash out of those games. ****, they could probably turn a quick buck by porting Xenogears to a portable.

Thayos wrote:
Square Enix just needs to get back to its roots of making a quality, story-driven RPG.

Forget making an overly complex battle system, or making the entire game have an over-the-shoulder perspective, or focusing more on the voice acting than the dialogue itself, etc... just give me a game with characters who I can care about, and a hero who doesn't look like a cross between an 10-year-old boy and a slice of veal.

An epic storyline must have an epic setting. This means *drumroll* a world map! Hey SE, remember how cool and unique your world maps used to be? And do you know you can integrate a world map with over-the-shoulder perspective in cities/dungeons/random enemy encounters? Why not bring back this cool feature that almost all of your most well-regarded games had?

And how about a storyline that doesn't feel like the beginning of "The Phantom Menace"? Try keeping the storyline more simple!

And please, for the love of god, stop integrating tutorials with the game's opening sequence! The opening sequence sets the tone for the rest of the game. If it feels slow and plodding because of a dumb tutorial (for people who are too lazy to just read the instructions), then why even try to have a cool opening sequence?

I'm still trying to cope with how bad FFXII was.


While those are all valid matters of opinion, I think FFXIII ultimately suffered due to the fact that it simply wasn't an RPG. It was an adventure/action strategy game, and nobody who was expecting even a semi-traditional RPG could reconcile what they were seeing with their hopes for the title. The game on its own suffers predominantly from not offering enough of a sense of freedom... not necessarily due to a lack of an expansive world, but at least due to features like party members you don't control, and no real character customization options.

Sort of a related untested hypothesis, but sometimes I think just having to press the A button to advance the dialogue keeps players more engaged in the story. It may sound silly, but I don't think the human psychology lends itself to enjoyment when it has to constantly switch between spectator mode and hands-on mode, even when it's mostly illusory.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

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#33 Dec 22 2011 at 5:23 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
looks like some one has a site that is desperate for hits... and you fell for it >.> Seriously 500K+ is still a success, wait til it hits Europe and the US to see if it flops.


525k sales in the first week? XIII sold over a million on day one. SE managed to alienate half of their offline playerbase somehow? I wonder...



As I said before, there are too many sites throwing that 525K number around and some are saying 360, some PS3, and some are saying it's combined. I don't blame people for waiting on trustworthy reviews before purchasing the game, and I would expect the first few week sales to be lower. I just don't know what the 525K is, the most reliable sites are saying it's like 560K PS3 sales and something like 100K 360 sales... but then again if they even mention the 360 numbers at all, the numbers are way different from other sites.
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#34 Dec 22 2011 at 6:17 AM Rating: Good
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Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
As I said before, there are too many sites throwing that 525K number around and some are saying 360, some PS3, and some are saying it's combined. I don't blame people for waiting on trustworthy reviews before purchasing the game, and I would expect the first few week sales to be lower. I just don't know what the 525K is, the most reliable sites are saying it's like 560K PS3 sales and something like 100K 360 sales... but then again if they even mention the 360 numbers at all, the numbers are way different from other sites.


Well common sense dictates that it isn't 360 alone. Regardless, the point I'm trying to make doesn't rely on which console whatever percentage of that number represents. The point is that XIII-X2 is selling far less after a week than XIII did on day one. A week is barely long enough to form an opinion and pass that along to your friends. XII had sold nearly half of the total sales of XIII by that point.

The figures don't have to be 100% accurate or separated into categories for different consoles properly to get the point across that FF's offline titles have been on a decline as of late. Like other people said, they need to get away from the adventure/action and back to the roots of RPG making.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#35 Dec 22 2011 at 7:09 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
The figures don't have to be 100% accurate or separated into categories for different consoles properly to get the point across that FF's offline titles have been on a decline as of late. Like other people said, they need to get away from the adventure/action and back to the roots of RPG making.


I guess you're not understanding me... I'm trying to say that the TOTAL number seems to be in question because some places are saying these are only a certain consoles sales and some are saying it's total but none of them can agree on which is which. Yes the numbers no matter what they belong to are lower than XIII was at the same point, but I'm not certain WHAT those numbers are because none of the sites are agreeing on a TOTAL. So it could be 700k, which yes is not 1 million+, but it's also slightly better than 500k.
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#36 Dec 22 2011 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
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I am curious to see if the improvements made to XIII-2 will be enough to push sales beyond XIII's in the long run. I'll fully admit that I was one of many that felt burnt by FFXIII... I have been playing the series on different platforms for more years than I'd like to say... (Since FF1 was released for the Nintendo). I can't say that I like every FF game ever made, but I appreciated what they were trying to do in most cases... FFXIII was the first title I played where I just couldn't see where they were going with it, and as such I played if for about 7 hours and then just dropped it. It has now sat in its case gathering dust since then... maybe to one day be taken out and finished, but it will never be at the top of my priority list.

I would agree that doing a re-make of some old classics would be nice (although I was actually never a big fan of FFVII... but I think my bitterness of Square moving away from Nintendo in favor of Sony really tainted the appeal of the game for me). I would love to see them get back to basics and create a game with challenge and depth... and I think by the sales stats, many fans would agree.

Will I get FFXIII-2? Maybe... but I'll wait until I see reviews telling me it is a 'must have' and is completely different from XIII.
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#37 Dec 22 2011 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Back to discussing in game tutorials. For an MMO, I think in a way it is kinda needed. When I first stepped into XI, I had no clue how to move, open my menu, what a party search feature was etc.

As far as tutorials in one player console RPG's, I think maybe game manufacturers are beginning to realize that the age demographic of gamers is changing. Where most of us had no problem picking up games on the NES on earlier consoles, cause we were kids. Children are very smart and have a natural aptitude for figuring things out really quickly. For example, lets just take languages. If a child grows up in a bi-lingual household or exposed to other languages (even if not constantly) the chances of that child being able to pick up another language a bit later in childhood seems to be drastically easier. As opposed to say an adult who has never been exposed to another language in his life, may find it a bit more troubling to become fluent in another language as would a child.

I think the manufactuers get that we are growing oldder. And as I have stated above, maybe they realize with that, it becomes more difficult to figure things out on our own? And if you have a frustrated consumer, who is to say they will want to continue using your product if they can't figure out the proper way of using it? That is just a guess of mine...I could be so totally wrong as well. I just thought I would put that idea out there for discussion sake of tutorials... :D
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#38 Dec 22 2011 at 8:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
I guess you're not understanding me... Yes the numbers no matter what they belong to are lower than XIII was at the same point


I understand you just fine. Your initial statement was that 500k+ was a success. I would agree if not for the fact that each FF game since X has sold less than it's previous version. The total number is irrelevant to the point because regardless of what exactly that is, we all know it's less than XIII. Less and less people are buying FF games.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#39 Dec 22 2011 at 9:56 AM Rating: Excellent
First FF that I have not bought. It wasn't even on my radar. Reading this post was the first I knew of the games release at all.

There are a ton of awesomely fun games available right now. I'm assuming that FFXIII-2 is not one of them. I could be wrong.

I'm basing my assumption on the evidence that Square-Enix has not been watching their competition for the last 10 years or so. They got it in their heads that they were the leading RPG game maker and could do no wrong. I understand, I thought the exact same thing.

SE, if you are intent on doing your own thing, sequel something you did well.

Give us an HD version of FF Tactics.
#40 Dec 22 2011 at 9:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Back to discussing in game tutorials. For an MMO, I think in a way it is kinda needed. When I first stepped into XI, I had no clue how to move, open my menu, what a party search feature was etc.... I think the manufactuers get that we are growing oldder. And as I have stated above, maybe they realize with that, it becomes more difficult to figure things out on our own?


You had no idea how to move, open your menu, seek a party, &c... but neglected to touch any keys, and refused to read the little manual? There was even an insert with most copies - a one page card - that highlighted all the controls, emotes, shortcuts, &c.! It's not about people being older, it's about them being lazier, I think - the focus in many MMOs becomes about getting stuff, not exploring, and the fastest way to get stuff is to start telling the player what to do right away. Otherwise you seem to be making the argument that kids' games are the hardest games around. XD
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#41 Dec 22 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
looks like some one has a site that is desperate for hits... and you fell for it >.> Seriously 500K+ is still a success, wait til it hits Europe and the US to see if it flops.


525k sales in the first week? XIII sold over a million on day one. SE managed to alienate half of their offline playerbase somehow? I wonder...


Whats more likely is those half million people decided to stop blindly buying games based on brand names. I'd hold off my own judgement until later and more precise numbers come in a few months from now. Even then I'd expect them to be lower with SE's awful history of sequels
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#42 Dec 22 2011 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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SmashingtonWho wrote:

SE, if you are intent on doing your own thing, sequel something you did well.



No, truly good games do not deserve a sequel.

If I ever see them making a sequel to FFIX, I will give up on S-E altogether.
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#43 Dec 22 2011 at 11:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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SE needs to stop doing sequels to games that are god Awful! Period! They said they where making FFXIII-2 because the consumers wanted it, yet they sold 500k first week <.< That tells you 2 things, one is that Se has a disconnection between what their consumers actually want, and what they "THINK" they want, and second is that people are no longer just blindly buying FF ******** just because they are FF ********

In my personal experience, every single ****** since VI, i have bought on faith, and i dont just mean FF ******** i mean anything that said Square/SE until FFXIII, i even bought Front Mission Evolved!

Also SE need to give some love to other ******** like The Last Remnant <.< That ****** was good, what killed it was, that SE has no idea as of how to make a game for PC :(
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#44 Dec 22 2011 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
i even bought Front Mission Evolved!


My condolences.
#45 Dec 22 2011 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
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mbub wrote:
Ostia wrote:
i even bought Front Mission Evolved!


My condolences.


To be fair, the game was kinda fun, but was way to short, by the time you felt like you had learned how to play it, you where in the final mission, and the story made no sense anyways :(

Please SE! Hire those guys that made the translation for FM5, or buy it and release it, IT'S A GREAT GAME!
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#46 Dec 22 2011 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:
Back to discussing in game tutorials. For an MMO, I think in a way it is kinda needed. When I first stepped into XI, I had no clue how to move, open my menu, what a party search feature was etc.... I think the manufactuers get that we are growing oldder. And as I have stated above, maybe they realize with that, it becomes more difficult to figure things out on our own?


You had no idea how to move, open your menu, seek a party, &c... but neglected to touch any keys, and refused to read the little manual? There was even an insert with most copies - a one page card - that highlighted all the controls, emotes, shortcuts, &c.! It's not about people being older, it's about them being lazier, I think - the focus in many MMOs becomes about getting stuff, not exploring, and the fastest way to get stuff is to start telling the player what to do right away. Otherwise you seem to be making the argument that kids' games are the hardest games around. XD


Kane, before I played FFXI, which was my first mmo, I had played nothing but console solo games. I had never really played a computer game. So my only experience was things like SE games with a controller. So those were easy for me and self explanatory. Chose a spell or action, click confirm, watch. Or NES games like Mario's 1-3 and Zelda, where the choices were either button A or B and directional pad. When I played my first Xbox game, Morrowind, that took me for a loop. Jumping, spell casting, hack and slashing, aiming! Sheathing and unsheathing my weapons... Journals... A bit overwhelming, but with time I got used to it.

However, playing an an MMO, for me had me confused at first. Why wasn't my game pad working? How do I move? How do I open my menu to equip anything? How do I talk? Servers? What?? I had never had these issues on a console game cause it was just me, the game pad and readjusting myself with the UI. On an MMO, I had to open a configure menu to set up my game pad, had to figure out servers, chatting. To me it was all new. So I was extremely ignorant to computer gaming and online gaming. A tutorial ingame then would have been nice.

*waits for everyone to call this Rudolph names* :P
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#47 Dec 22 2011 at 12:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well SE said themselves that XIV hurt its reputation, I guess they just never expected it to be this damaging.
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#48 Dec 22 2011 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Somewhat apropos for this thread:

Anyone buying the $99 USD Square Enix package on Steam?

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#49 Dec 22 2011 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
****, they could probably turn a quick buck by porting Xenogears to a portable.


didn't read the whole thread to see if anyone addressed this but you can download xenogears on to PSP
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#50 Dec 22 2011 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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Is it a pure port or did they make some changes? As I recall they originally rushed the ending of the game. I always kind of hoped they'd go back and make changes according to the original plan.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#51 Dec 22 2011 at 5:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Square Enix just needs to get back to its roots of making a quality, story-driven RPG.

Forget making an overly complex battle system, or making the entire game have an over-the-shoulder perspective, or focusing more on the voice acting than the dialogue itself, etc... just give me a game with characters who I can care about, and a hero who doesn't look like a cross between an 10-year-old boy and a slice of veal.

An epic storyline must have an epic setting. This means *drumroll* a world map! Hey SE, remember how cool and unique your world maps used to be? And do you know you can integrate a world map with over-the-shoulder perspective in cities/dungeons/random enemy encounters? Why not bring back this cool feature that almost all of your most well-regarded games had?

And how about a storyline that doesn't feel like the beginning of "The Phantom Menace"? Try keeping the storyline more simple!

And please, for the love of god, stop integrating tutorials with the game's opening sequence! The opening sequence sets the tone for the rest of the game. If it feels slow and plodding because of a dumb tutorial (for people who are too lazy to just read the instructions), then why even try to have a cool opening sequence?

I'm still trying to cope with how bad FFXII was.


I agree with this 100% For me bring back the turn base combat. Bring back the old movies that told a large chunk of the story after I finished a big quest/killed a boss. Part of the charm of FF games was the easy going story driven game play. Now FF feels like an action game with a bit of RPG tossed in as an after thought.
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