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#152 Jan 15 2012 at 8:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Woofdram wrote:
[quote=Urste]Anyway, the only the posts on the ZAM pages that seem to yield the most responses are the complaint posts and it is not because the complaints are new and insightful and therefore interesting. It's just because some people like to rant, and "show off" their knowledge of other games and even start fights about them.


I am not so sure that is the reason discussions like this generate so much interest. I think that the posters here are genuinely interested in this game, mainly because they are here posting on these forums. This game doesn't generate much interest from the outside so it wouldn't make sense for people who don't care about FF to spend time here.

My guess as to why discussions about MMO philosophies and the future of this game (whether positive or negative) come up so much? This game is in a transition period. 2.0 is coming out late this year and will be attempting to generate appeal, and many people watching are the ones who were interested and felt let down by the original. Because of that, a lot of people, rather than just saying "***** this game" and moving on, are actually keeping a watchful eye on it to see how it turns out, and a lot of the discussions are similar to what you'd see on a board for an MMO in beta. Understandably, because that's essentially the position this game is in now. I know this sounds harsh but I'm not a FF hater. I've played every game in the series and got into MMOs because of FFXI. With that said, 2.0 has to generate some serious appeal for this game to be deemed anything but a failure. How it's going to do that, and whether it even can or not, is a very interesting topic of discussion for those keeping an eye on the game.
#153 Jan 16 2012 at 2:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Susanoh wrote:

(...) I think that the posters here are genuinely interested in this game, mainly because they are here posting on these forums.

(...)

With that said, 2.0 has to generate some serious appeal for this game to be deemed anything but a failure. How it's going to do that, and whether it even can or not, is a very interesting topic of discussion for those keeping an eye on the game.


At first I had exactly the same thoughts, but surely you can make the distinction between serious posts and plain rants, right? Quite a bunch of the pieces of text I am reading do not look like a cold piece of analysis or something that is written to genuinly discuss a subject, but something that is written to make people quit or don't even start in the first place.

As much as you (and I!) like to see good intentions, we do have to keep in mind that there are a lot of frustrated people out there, who were looking forward to a new Final Fantasy MMO - and probably bought the CE as well and even upgraded their pc or bought a new one - and were disappointed. All they want now is to see FFXIV 2.0 fail horribly. Their dream is shattered, they hate SE and they want the developers and anyone who does see light at the end of the tunnel die a horrible death in front of their loves ones.

It is childish, but that human behavior for you as well, unfortunately.

Edited, Jan 16th 2012 7:37am by Woofdram
#154 Jan 16 2012 at 4:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Susanoh wrote:

Those of us who aren't in favor of major "grinds" are advocating character progression that comes along with good content and reasonable time requirements. No one is saying there should be no character progression whatsoever. I think there is a bit of confusion here and it stems from the fact that some are referring to "the grind" as any and all character progression, which is fine if we want to put it like that, but we still need a way to distinguish between unreasonable time requirements and reasonable ones to understand where we're coming from.

Pacing is a very important aspect of all games, not just MMOs. Something that may be fun for a few hours may become tedious after a few more. The trick is getting it right, which is probably tougher for MMOs than any other genre because it's a genre that's designed to keep people playing for many months. Still, intentionally slowing the game to a crawl will make for a less exciting game. In your earlier post you asked people to think of people who are bedridden or injured. People like this have all the time in the world to play. Making content that appeals to this group will likely have vastly different time requirements than content designed for the average person. For example, making a week long quest for a regular person could be all in a day's work for someone who's up for a 14 hour marathon. From a developer standpoint, the problem with making a game for this market is that it's incredibly risky. Even if a developer does make a game aimed purely at the hardcore market, they still have to bank on the assumption that this smaller market will prefer the game to the competition, which isn't a given considering that even so called "easy mode" MMOs have people who spend plenty of time on them and enjoy them quite a bit.

As one of the "old" FFXI players, I honestly do understand where you're coming from. Not sure if FFXI was your thing or not but it certainly did carry a hefty time requirement pre-Abyssea and especially pre-TaoU. I don't think it would be so bad for there to be games with similar time requirements now (EDIT: Just want to point out that I mean some games like this. With today's market, it'd be terrible for all of them to be this way). The only problem is that the market has evolved, and many are preferring the newer style. Today's kids are used to instant satisfaction, and adults who may have grew up with games like Everquest or FFXI often don't have the time to do that all over again, and not all of them would want to with all the competition out there these days (not saying everyone wouldn't, but certainly some). It's not that the hardcore gamers who want a game at their pace don't deserve a game, but that there may not be enough of a market for a developer to bank on its success.


I agreed with this comment. As a casual gamer it took me 3 years to get my first character to 75 in FFXI. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed almost every minute of it but I don't have time for it anymore. I need to be able to get on and go full steam for a couple hours and then be done for the week.

CarthRDM wrote:

I realize FFXI was basically the last game to have forced grouping for all content. Now most MMOs are a race to 50 to where the "real game" is, ...


^^this. It makes me sad that you are right. I'm in it to experience the world and lore. The things like Chains of Promathia, Rise of Zilart, etc... They were just icing on the cake. If you could complete them. If you did the rewards spoke for themselves.
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#155 Jan 17 2012 at 6:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Urste wrote:
Motion to move this thread to Complaints.


This is slightly offensive.

Imagine you bought a car that was advertised as one of the best cars on the market, only to find out that its wheels don't work, its steering system is busted, it has no brakes, and has a myriad of other problems and issues.

Then the company says "oh no, don't worry, we just had a bad engineering team, they are replaced now and we will send you replacement parts soon and this will be the best car ever a year from now.

Then a year goes by, and not only do you find that your car hasn't been fixed at all, but now you are getting charged for replacement parts that are equally dysfunctional.

You talk to your friends who all have cars that cost the same price or less, but are 50 times or more better, with nice shiny wheels, a robotic controlled steering system, self-parking, and 100 other features that your car lacks.

You then say "hey... the guys making my car clearly have no idea wtf they are doing, they aren't competitive, they are charging people for a broken product, and they can't even run their billing system. In the last year almost nothing has changed, new cars are being released every month that are superior in every aspect, and the engineering team is showing no signs of improvement. Based on this logic, when they release their rushed out 2.0 version of the car in a year, it will probably be a disaster"

There is no complaint here, there is no problem with how the game is. There is just a simple fact. The game is not competitive, nearly every action taken by SE proves not only that the game is not competitive but that the game will never be competitive. From a business perspective the game is a horrid investment because the team behind it continuously proves they are incapable of succeeding, and also acts counter-intuitively (charging for a broken game knowing it will hurt their reputation and lose more players, which in a chain reaction will cause more current players to get bored faster and quit, or result in server merges which the gaming community sees as a red flag for failure or disintegration).

So in the end there is no complaint, just a point of discussion.
Why expect a team that continuously creates controversy and essentially "fails," to suddenly succeed enormously and come out with a hit?




#156 Jan 17 2012 at 7:38 PM Rating: Decent
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SE themselves stated it would take at least 2 years to overhaul the game..if you know what the word overhaul means.
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#157 Jan 17 2012 at 7:43 PM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
SE themselves stated it would take at least 2 years to overhaul the game..if you know what the word overhaul means.


I think that I know what the word overhaul means; the true question is, does Square-Enix?
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#158 Jan 17 2012 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
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Azurymber wrote:
Urste wrote:
Motion to move this thread to Complaints.


So in the end there is no complaint, just a point of discussion.
Why expect a team that continuously creates controversy and essentially "fails," to suddenly succeed enormously and come out with a hit?


Because they did it for about 25 years previous to this?
#159 Jan 17 2012 at 8:01 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
SE themselves stated it would take at least 2 years to overhaul the game..if you know what the word overhaul means.


I think that I know what the word overhaul means; the true question is, does Square-Enix?


More than likely since they've been doing it for the past year.
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#160 Jan 17 2012 at 8:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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LebargeX wrote:
Azurymber wrote:
Urste wrote:
Motion to move this thread to Complaints.


So in the end there is no complaint, just a point of discussion.
Why expect a team that continuously creates controversy and essentially "fails," to suddenly succeed enormously and come out with a hit?


Because they did it for about 25 years previous to this?


IDK about that. Other SE games I've played, not counting FFXI, didn't seem to be bugged to **** and lacking in simple things to make their previous games successful...just this one...from my perspective.

I mean pretty much what Azury states, I can agree with and attest to. Heck, I've quit FFXIV and moved to WoW...WOW! A game I never thought I would play cause I thought SE would make something as competive, not better, just competive. I have enjoyed SE games before in the past, why would this one be any different...well...it made me move to WoW, and seeing as how truly "casual friendly" WoW is compared to the "casual friendly" of FFXIV is going, yeah IDK about that.

To me FFXIV is heading in the direction of FFXI. Which I can't get on board with. I do want FFXIV to make MS of their games and expansions solo/duo/casual friendly, while at the same time making end game and "special" quests with great cutscenes for those who want more of a group related effort and gameplay.

And clearly, it just doesn't seem to be heading in that direction, it seems to me, to be catering to a more group oriented game only. Just with bugs from ****, horrible, UI, no proper functioning market, leveling cheats (referring to the PL, even though Yoshi supports it I don't) galore...blah. It's just turned into a big ball of...icky :/ I really want FFXIV to succeed, and I hope they do...but the odds are highly stacked against them...

And since this is the general discussion forum, the topic of this discussion makes for great conversation, not much of a complaint.

Edited, Jan 17th 2012 9:04pm by LillithaFenimore
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#161 Jan 17 2012 at 8:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Eh, XIV is far from XI (eve though that would be a good thing if it was going towards XI, who can complain about having content in the game, let alone tons of active storyline that unlocks even MORE content? xD)

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#162 Jan 17 2012 at 11:00 PM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
who can complain about having content in the game, let alone tons of active storyline that unlocks even MORE content? xD)

^
Obviously haven't visited the official XI forums lately.


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#163 Jan 18 2012 at 12:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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There isn't really that much content left for people who have played regularly since launch. That said, I really think the next 3 patches look like content patches.

The storyline quests are good, but it seemed too little spread too far apart. Somehow I haven't felt as sucked into the story like I think I should. I really, really hope they add the ability to re-watch CS soon so I can watch it all at once and see if I can see if I'm missing something...

#164 Jan 18 2012 at 2:23 AM Rating: Decent
Azurymber wrote:
Urste wrote:
Motion to move this thread to Complaints.


This is slightly offensive.

Imagine you bought a car.



Nobody here purchased a car through SE. We all purchased a game that failed to live up to anyones( well most, some actually enjoy it hear) expectations of even basic playabilty. SE recognized this and has since taken action to actually repair the damage instead of scrap the project alltogether.

Having friends that play a variety of different MMO's and having played these games myself I can honestly say those wheels dont shine for long and that robot controlled steering is more often insulting to everyones intelligence than useful. As for those other 100 features, I hate made up numbers.

The Dev team has yet to release their true results so I dont see why you beleive they are incapable of succeeding. Calling the 2.0 launch rushed is crazy. theyve already been working on it for about a years time, in another year it should very well be ready.We can only really judge their work after the launch of 2.0. The way I see it any work done until 2.0 is just a band-aid to make the game suck less. If I have any real issue with this its the year it took for them to tell us.





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#165 Jan 18 2012 at 5:30 AM Rating: Decent
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theSubligaravenger wrote:
Calling the 2.0 launch rushed is crazy.


Oh, did someone say that 2.0 is being rushed? Cause others think that SE is moving way too slow.

Apparently whatever SE will do this coming year is wrong. Truly the ingredient for... "great conversation". Not useless at all.

Edited, Jan 18th 2012 8:46am by Woofdram
#166 Jan 18 2012 at 7:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Woofdram wrote:
theSubligaravenger wrote:
Calling the 2.0 launch rushed is crazy.


Oh, did someone say that 2.0 is being rushed? Cause others think that SE is moving way too slow.

Apparently whatever SE will do this coming year is wrong. Truly the ingredient for... "great conversation". Not useless at all.

Edited, Jan 18th 2012 8:46am by Woofdram


instead of fixing the game, SE is focused on goobue mounts (which according to them take weeks and effort from multiple teams).

Further, Star Wars TOR does have 100+ things that are improved or non-existant in ffxiv.

SE hasn't done anything right. I mean look at the state of FFXIV, i have like 40mil gil. So either they completely inflate the currency or 2.0 comes out and i as well as many other come back, artificially inflate it, and ruin the game for new players. That alone is a death sentence.

Moving on, the game lets people powerlevel and get a job to max level in 5 days. So when 2.0 comes out, new players come into a game where everyone is "elite" and either they leave that system and the game becomes a 5-day level-fest and then quit, or they junk it and new players don't get accepted to the "good" linkshells which require 3 or 4 jobs at 50 and quit (that happened on a lot of servers in ffxi, but there it was a result of the game being out for 6 years).

Theres tons of problems like this, that SE isn't even bothering to address. Yes. If 2.0 was a full re-release (read: new game) and everyones characters were reset I could see it having a chance of succeeding. But at this rate they are releasing a game designed to fail.

Edited, Jan 18th 2012 9:04pm by Azurymber
#167 Jan 18 2012 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
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#168 Jan 18 2012 at 8:08 PM Rating: Default
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Azurymber wrote:
Woofdram wrote:
theSubligaravenger wrote:
Calling the 2.0 launch rushed is crazy.


Oh, did someone say that 2.0 is being rushed? Cause others think that SE is moving way too slow.

Apparently whatever SE will do this coming year is wrong. Truly the ingredient for... "great conversation". Not useless at all.

Edited, Jan 18th 2012 8:46am by Woofdram


instead of fixing the game, SE is focused on goobue mounts (which according to them take weeks and effort from multiple teams).


Oh, I agree with you. Patch 1.17 - 1.20 thus far has been NOTHING but work on a Goobbue mount.

Quote:
Moving on, the game lets people powerlevel and get a job to max level in 5 days. So when 2.0 comes out, new players come into a game where everyone is "elite"


This is different from any other MMORPG how? If you join any established MMOs, especially in today's age, you'll be joining in where "everyone is elite". Don't think for a second this is isolated to just FFXIV.

Quote:
Theres tons of problems like this, that SE isn't even bothering to address


Which internal document did they release that was only emailed to you but not everyone else?

Quote:
Yes. If 2.0 was a full re-release (read: new game) and everyones characters were reset I could see it having a chance of succeeding


SWTOR is doing quite well for bein an old game using WoW as it's online base.
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#169 Jan 18 2012 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
Azurymber wrote:
Woofdram wrote:
theSubligaravenger wrote:
Calling the 2.0 launch rushed is crazy.


Oh, did someone say that 2.0 is being rushed? Cause others think that SE is moving way too slow.

Apparently whatever SE will do this coming year is wrong. Truly the ingredient for... "great conversation". Not useless at all.

Edited, Jan 18th 2012 8:46am by Woofdram


instead of fixing the game, SE is focused on goobue mounts (which according to them take weeks and effort from multiple teams).


Oh, I agree with you. Patch 1.17 - 1.20 thus far has been NOTHING but work on a Goobbue mount.

Quote:
Moving on, the game lets people powerlevel and get a job to max level in 5 days. So when 2.0 comes out, new players come into a game where everyone is "elite"


This is different from any other MMORPG how? If you join any established MMOs, especially in today's age, you'll be joining in where "everyone is elite". Don't think for a second this is isolated to just FFXIV.

Quote:
Theres tons of problems like this, that SE isn't even bothering to address


Which internal document did they release that was only emailed to you but not everyone else?

Quote:
Yes. If 2.0 was a full re-release (read: new game) and everyones characters were reset I could see it having a chance of succeeding


SWTOR is doing quite well for bein an old game using WoW as it's online base.


You know, just so I know you're not crammed 9 inches up SE's behind, what do you think they HAVE done wrong?
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#170 Jan 18 2012 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know where people are getting this notion that everyone's going to be top-heavy when 2.0 comes out. It's already been mentioned in middle of last year that the level cap wouldn't be raised for another year and a half.

This was before the 2.0 announcement, so I bet they probably kept that in mind.

It's likely that the level cap will increase with 2.0's release in order to have everyone leveling.

-

Edit:

Regarding the poster above, it seems that it's gotten pretty asinine. You said yourself you liked posting here because you like watching the "trainwreck". Your words not mine. Are you any better than the people who foolishly defend S-E to no end thinking they can't do any wrong?

What happened to some middle ground?

Edited, Jan 18th 2012 6:28pm by UltKnightGrover
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#171 Jan 18 2012 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:

You know, just so I know you're not crammed 9 inches up SE's behind, what do you think they HAVE done wrong?


The only thing they did wrong with XIV was not use XI as a base and fix all of the flaws/modernizing it for XIV. Since no one can argue that a working market system, search system, party/solo separation and tons of content concepts to build off of at bare minimum is a bad thing. It's a new game, sure, but after maintaining FFXI and FMO, they had more than enough MMO experience to not push out what they did with XIV.

Worked for Rift, working for SWTOR, so why not? lol.

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#172 Jan 18 2012 at 8:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Theonehio wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:

You know, just so I know you're not crammed 9 inches up SE's behind, what do you think they HAVE done wrong?


The only thing they did wrong with XIV was not use XI as a base and fix all of the flaws/modernizing it for XIV. Since no one can argue that a working market system, search system, party/solo separation and tons of content concepts to build off of at bare minimum is a bad thing. It's a new game, sure, but after maintaining FFXI and FMO, they had more than enough MMO experience to not push out what they did with XIV.

Worked for Rift, working for SWTOR, so why not? lol.



Adding onto this, the [original] XIV team admitted they were trying to make things different for the sake of being different at the expense of everything that XI did right and starting over rather than retaining features that not only players want, but what players expected.

I don't know what they were thinking.
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#173 Jan 18 2012 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
Azurymber wrote:
SE started charging less than a month after SW:TOR came out (which has epic reviews


And is:

insanely Generic.
Knights of the Old Republic with the ability to play it online.
Not animated as well as it could be.
Did I mention insanely generic?
The Same MMO you played in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, etc with a different setting.

..What does SW: TOR have to do with anything?



At the risk of beating a dead horse, FFXIV is also insanely generic, not even comparable to any successful offline game, and otherwise has all the flaws of SWTOR with virtually none of its strengths. I've been playing SWTOR lately, and I have nearly NO love for WoW, the Star Wars franchise, or science fiction in general. I would in every sense prefer it if this game swapped places with FFXIV. SWTOR is still a thousand times more fun than FFXIV will be two years from now, and they haven't even had a major patch.

How FFXIV can continue to be managed so incompetently with competition like that running loose is entirely beyond me. Any other major gaming corporation would have overhauled that game months ago. My frank guess is that the Japanese preoccupation with seniority and cooperation is causing a bureaucratic mess, because there's no reason that a U.S. company wouldn't have told the developers what to do and made them do it ASAP or else. In short, too many old, polite people on staff? Just a guess.
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#174 Jan 18 2012 at 8:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think they decided to innovate, at the cost of everything else. Unfortunately, not all innovation leads to positive results. The world is full of "next big things" that flop in a MASSIVE way.

SE is fortunate to be big enough to absorb a big hit like this. I'm not defending the fact that someone seems to have their head buried up their @$$, but at least they are working to fix it. Even it doesn't become the next big thing, 2.0 can't be any worse than where they started. After playing Rift, I can definitely say I'm NOT interested in that kind of gameplay. I mean, I had 2 level 50's in a month, and had done all the instances except for the high level raids within 3 months. I played FF XI for years, and never had a level 75, but loved playing it.
#175 Jan 18 2012 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
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Damnit still waiting for other payment options promised by SE for me.

(-_- Their early Jan is turning into early Feb.
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#176 Jan 18 2012 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Humster wrote:
Damnit still waiting for other payment options promised by SE for me.

(-_- Their early Jan is turning into early Feb.


*pat pat* Good luck there sir!
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#177 Jan 18 2012 at 11:57 PM Rating: Good
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i can't stand WoW but i love SWtor. It may have the same "battle system" or UI like WoW, but the game is nothing like it. And it's on a completely different level than FFXIV is.
SWtor has:
  • An incredibly good story/lore
  • A -longggggggg- story that takes weeks or a month to get through if you skip all the awesome little side stories and codex achievements. If you do everything you can play about 6-8 hours a day and not finish your story for about 2 months. And then thers 7 more stories to experience.
  • 8 different "stories"
  • different text in the generic quests for different genders + different "classes"
  • Different options in quests and stories which can change things down the road
  • followups to stories in the form of mail (ex. you save some chicks life, a day later you get a thank you letter with an extra item in your mail)
  • A massive diverse world which shames FFXIV's current generic repetitive world
  • very epic voice acting on EVERY quest, mission, cutscene, etc
  • Incredibly well done sound effects and activity-concious music (ex. epic music starts playin when you attack a boss, as opposed to generic battle music for everything)
  • A mail system
  • A general chat that encompasses an entire planet/zone (as opposed to FF's shout which reaches all of 3 ppl in an open world area)
  • Companions that vary in ability, story, personality. You can customize what abilities they use, and you can gear them up just like yourself. And you get like 5 or 6. And they are different for all 8 classes. They can also be used pretty well anywhere, unlike FFXIV where they can just be used in like 3 missions and don't really do anything
  • An auction house that is superior to FFXI's with search features, suggested prices, etc
  • A functioning economy that balances supply and demand and retroactively regulates prices
  • A space simulator game which is a lot like the N64 starfox and incredibly well designed and fun (as well as quite challenging)
  • something like 15 party-raids and a few "operations" (alliance raids)
  • Each raid is considerably longer than any FFXIV raids
  • Raids have stories, and your decisions can change the enemies, bosses, and items received making it fun to do raids over and over
  • A simple gear customization system that blows the complex crafting+materia system out of the water
  • Hundreds of heroics which are 2 or 4 person (suggested) mini-raids. They pose a challenge and usually give better rewards than normal sidequests
  • A planet-story quest line on each planet that takes around a day to complete(theres 10+ planets)
  • lots and lots and lots of different mounts. Probably like 50+
  • A crafting system that utilizes companions, where you can send them out for a certain amount of in game currency and for a certain time to level up (cutting out the repetitive ffxiv grinding)
  • PvP warzones. 3 mini pvp games that last 15 min each. They are pretty epically fun and kinda like a sport. And they require a lot of strategy
  • Battle areas on some worlds where you can pvp. Here your goal atm is to kill the ppl on the opposing team and collect stuff, all while taking control of key spots (increasing bonuses you get from killing)
  • Variety in leveling. You can level doing your storyline, planet storyline, sidequests, heroics (mini raids), raids, ops, space flight minigame, or pvp. There are also bonus storylines after you complete a planet storyline.
  • A skill based battle system where rather than just smacking something with a stick you deal with crowd control, stuns, attacks, heals, aoe's, and more. All with just 1 job while playing solo. This lets skilled players solo mini-raids and take on challenging mini-bosses while making the general combat somewhat challenging but fun


I could keep going for a long time... (thats about 25, and thats just scratching the surface with generic things that are better. Could go well over 100 if i got into specifics, such as diversity of mobs, the lore system, the quest system, maps, etc)

Over all, SWtor beats out FFXIV in pretty well everything except for graphics.

SWtor is competition to FFXIV. So if 2.0 can't stand up to all those things above, what are the chances it will succeed? Probably very low. Further, FFXIV 2.0 is going to be released in less than a year and they aren't even alpha testing it yet.

So even if they do pull off a miracle, given their past history of taking over 12 months to balance out exp, we can expect the game to be released riddled with bugs.

FFXIV 2.0 really -should- have about 6 months of beta testing before they even consider releasing it, especially given the teams track record of messing things up over and over and over again in the current version. And if they stick to their schedule, it won't.

Don't get me wrong, i'm a HUGE ff fanboy, and would rather be playing FFXIV. But if a company can't even create a working billing system, the chances are they won't be able to create a working game.


Edited, Jan 19th 2012 12:58am by Azurymber

Edited, Jan 19th 2012 12:59am by Azurymber
#178 Jan 19 2012 at 12:07 AM Rating: Default
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I thought ArchAge/GW2 were supposed to be 2.0 competition? Everytime new MMO come out they always say this blah blah blah game dead blah blah blah. Latest one were Rift and Kr/Jp TERA and look at what happened to them.
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#179 Jan 19 2012 at 1:33 AM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
I thought ArchAge/GW2 were supposed to be 2.0 competition? Everytime new MMO come out they always say this blah blah blah game dead blah blah blah. Latest one were Rift and Kr/Jp TERA and look at what happened to them.


There are still more players in Rift on one or two servers at any given time than FFXIV probably has in actives players across all of its servers. That's what happened.
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#180 Jan 19 2012 at 1:48 AM Rating: Decent
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hexaemeron wrote:
Khornette wrote:
I thought ArchAge/GW2 were supposed to be 2.0 competition? Everytime new MMO come out they always say this blah blah blah game dead blah blah blah. Latest one were Rift and Kr/Jp TERA and look at what happened to them.


There are still more players in Rift on one or two servers at any given time than FFXIV probably has in actives players across all of its servers. That's what happened.


I thought Rift's main competitor was WoW, what happened? Why does Rift have to compare with the lowest rated MMO in history to keep face now?
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#181 Jan 19 2012 at 1:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
Khornette wrote:
I thought ArchAge/GW2 were supposed to be 2.0 competition? Everytime new MMO come out they always say this blah blah blah game dead blah blah blah. Latest one were Rift and Kr/Jp TERA and look at what happened to them.


There are still more players in Rift on one or two servers at any given time than FFXIV probably has in actives players across all of its servers. That's what happened.


I thought Rift's main competitor was WoW, what happened? Why does Rift have to compare with the lowest rated MMO in history to keep face now?


I wasn't saying it had to. You mentioned competition for 2.0 and mentioned those. I was only speaking to the points you brought up.
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#182 Jan 19 2012 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good
Azurymber wrote:
i can't stand WoW but i love SWtor. It may have the same "battle system" or UI like WoW, but the game is nothing like it. And it's on a completely different level than FFXIV is.
SWtor has:
..........


Cool story bro. Now why are you still here complaining about a game that isn't good when you can be playing your "awesome" Star Wars MMO?
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#183 Jan 19 2012 at 1:57 AM Rating: Default
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hexaemeron wrote:
Khornette wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
Khornette wrote:
I thought ArchAge/GW2 were supposed to be 2.0 competition? Everytime new MMO come out they always say this blah blah blah game dead blah blah blah. Latest one were Rift and Kr/Jp TERA and look at what happened to them.


There are still more players in Rift on one or two servers at any given time than FFXIV probably has in actives players across all of its servers. That's what happened.


I thought Rift's main competitor was WoW, what happened? Why does Rift have to compare with the lowest rated MMO in history to keep face now?


I wasn't saying it had to. You mentioned competition for 2.0 and mentioned those. I was only speaking to the points you brought up.


Yea and btw there was report in Rift forum of servers that had 100-200 people online during Christmas break. Good thing those 11 servers are going to be vacated of all subscribers into "trial servers".

Edited, Jan 19th 2012 3:03am by Khornette
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#184 Jan 19 2012 at 2:02 AM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
Khornette wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
Khornette wrote:
I thought ArchAge/GW2 were supposed to be 2.0 competition? Everytime new MMO come out they always say this blah blah blah game dead blah blah blah. Latest one were Rift and Kr/Jp TERA and look at what happened to them.


There are still more players in Rift on one or two servers at any given time than FFXIV probably has in actives players across all of its servers. That's what happened.


I thought Rift's main competitor was WoW, what happened? Why does Rift have to compare with the lowest rated MMO in history to keep face now?


I wasn't saying it had to. You mentioned competition for 2.0 and mentioned those. I was only speaking to the points you brought up.


Yea and btw there was report in Rift forum of servers that had 100-200 people online during Christmas break. Good thing those 15 servers are going to be vacated of all subscribers into "trial servers".


Of course they did - SWTOR had been out for less than a week at that point. Every game likely suffered and is like continuing to.
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#185 Jan 19 2012 at 8:54 AM Rating: Decent
Azurymber wrote:
i can't stand WoW but i love SWtor. It may have the same "battle system" or UI like WoW, but the game is nothing like it. And it's on a completely different level than FFXIV is.
SWtor has:


The great thing is SE already had an MMO that had the majority of the features you listed, sans the flight sim naturally. While your list is quite accurate you relist what amounts to the same features seperately, i imagine to aritificially inflate it. but really now, your first 2 points could be consolidated for example.

But again i ask why are you still repeatedly attacking the current game when you know they are and have been working on what amounts to (hopefully) a completely different game? If SWTOR is that great why are you even here? are you still that upset about the state of the game? and who are these posts for? the majority of us here agree with you..



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#186 Jan 19 2012 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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theSubligaravenger wrote:
Azurymber wrote:
i can't stand WoW but i love SWtor. It may have the same "battle system" or UI like WoW, but the game is nothing like it. And it's on a completely different level than FFXIV is.
SWtor has:


The great thing is SE already had an MMO that had the majority of the features you listed, sans the flight sim naturally. While your list is quite accurate you relist what amounts to the same features seperately, i imagine to aritificially inflate it. but really now, your first 2 points could be consolidated for example.

But again i ask why are you still repeatedly attacking the current game when you know they are and have been working on what amounts to (hopefully) a completely different game? If SWTOR is that great why are you even here? are you still that upset about the state of the game? and who are these posts for? the majority of us here agree with you..





first 2 points are different. one is about the story being good, the other is about length. FFXIVs story was really short and further, it was a convoluted mess.

I'm not attacking the current game, i'm pointing out that based on experience the dev team will not be able to put a good game together.

They said 2.0 isn't going to be a different game. I run a business and do economic consulting and i can tell you 100% that unless they scrap gil as the main currency, 2.0 will be released with a failing economy.

The list was because someone had pointed out i was overexagerating and couldn't list 100 things. And like i said, if i get into details i could list a lot more.

And i'm posting because this is a debate thread and people keep saying that starwars is just a rehash of WoW (which it really isn't in any way) and that 2.0 could be successful.

I like the optimism but my point is that the dev team has got nothing right. Balancing a game is not difficult, its a matter of changing a few formulas. And if a team can't balance a game or work out a functioning economy in over a year, they are incompetent.
Then when you see customer relations mistakes like a broken billing system that excludes regions and uses shady middlemen, and even charging at a horrible time when a much better mmo was just released, you have to ask yourself if its SE holding the game back.

Even if the game is perfect, this billing system alone will drive off a huge % of potential players. And its likely to have a horrid launch like ffxiv with lag and messed up servers, resulting in even more people immediately leaving.

The dev team and SE have fixed -no- core issues at all so far. And trust me, it takes a long time to beta test an economy. So if they don't start beta testing soon you can pretty well be 100% sure the game will lack a functioning economy or be exploitable.
#187 Jan 19 2012 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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Azurymber wrote:
unless they scrap gil as the main currency, 2.0 will be released with a failing economy.


In before SE makes gold, silver, and copper increments of gil!
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#188 Jan 19 2012 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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Azurymber wrote:

The dev team and SE have fixed -no- core issues at all so far.


I agree with you, it still takes me well over a minute to load up NPC dialog, let alone buying/selling to shops. Oh, it also takes me 20+ seconds to go into active mode/passive mode. Not to mention! I still get 0 exp for some battle no matter the level of the enemy and the strength differences between 1 star and 5 star is too great to the point you can't ever do 5 star leves till you're level 50.

So yeah, the dev team is definitely not working on fixing issues with the game.

Quote:
m not attacking the current game, i'm pointing out that based on experience the dev team will not be able to put a good game together.


Saying they've done nothing in the past 16+ months is basically attacking them, when it's perfectly ok to admit that they are actually working on issues and have been making strides in fixing the broken game they pushed out.

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#189 Jan 19 2012 at 4:05 PM Rating: Excellent
I'm starting to feel as if the MMO recipe in general is just a thing of the past. I speak for myself only.

Grinding really does put me to sleep, doesn't matter if it's raptors or womprats. I used to enjoy sitting down to an 8 hour grind. Now, not so much. SWOTR has some great elements, but sooner or later you just spend a full day mashing your attack rotation and boredom sets in.

It seems I can no longer dedicate 1000+ hours to anyone one game and still be entertained. I'm always looking for something new and shiny, but then after the shiney is gone, I'm back to looking for something new and shiny.

I'm not sure that FFXIV version 2.0 will qualify as new and shiney.

IMO, it's the multiplayer, play-with-friends, aspect that really keeps the motivational fire lit for MMO's. Thus, games without Level-synch or Sidekick (ala City of Heroes) make playing with RL friends nearly impossible. Everyone levels at different rates, and static groups consisting of friends with kids and responsibilities just never seem to level to end-game.

Perhaps there will be a new MMO that has auto-group, level-synch, sidekick, or whatever else is needed to make the social aspect really shine. FFXIV did not, and it's the number #1 complaint that players have with SW:TOR.

In short, make it easy for players to play with friends or GTFO.
#190 Jan 19 2012 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
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http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/19/electronic-arts-stock-in-danger-thanks-to-swtor-fumbles/2#comments

Om nom nom, does this remind you of SE's ragequit stock sale drop after FFXIV release?

hexaemeron wrote:
Of course they did - SWTOR had been out for less than a week at that point. Every game likely suffered and is like continuing to.


Oh it was at that low level even before SW:TOR pre-release. Also SW:TOR fans are blaming under expected performance of SW:TOR due to *coughs* Skyrim. It appears somewhat true, because even 2 months later Skyrim have 100k+ peak player on Steam (PC version) not to mention 5 to 6 times more players on console that is a HUGE drop in anything RPG gaming related.

Edited, Jan 19th 2012 6:04pm by Khornette
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#191 Jan 19 2012 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
It appears somewhat true, because even 2 months later Skyrim have 100k+ peak player on Steam (PC version) not to mention 5 to 6 times more players on console that is a HUGE drop in anything RPG gaming related.


Hahaha 2month latter and Skyrim has more sub.. wait no, players, that's right players then a MMO. I am not surprised to be honest, most play RPGMMO's looking for the sweet taste of what makes makes up a RPG with the aspect to do it with others. And in return find that they are being cooped up in a cage like cattle behind the doors of "soon it will be better"..

SW:TOR will fair quite poorly. It has little to offer the moment the shiny wares off... it quite honestly is more a single player online game more so then a MMO. And really i see little future for it, considering TERA NA will be out in 3 months... Though i have little hope for it too, i doubt it will last the year... Some were along the way MMO's lost the charm and appeal, they had in the days of EQ I, XI, even WoW (early stages)!
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#192 Jan 19 2012 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
Azurymber wrote:

The dev team and SE have fixed -no- core issues at all so far.


I agree with you, it still takes me well over a minute to load up NPC dialog, let alone buying/selling to shops. Oh, it also takes me 20+ seconds to go into active mode/passive mode. Not to mention! I still get 0 exp for some battle no matter the level of the enemy and the strength differences between 1 star and 5 star is too great to the point you can't ever do 5 star leves till you're level 50.



Picking the corn out of the **** doesn't make it less poopy
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#193 Jan 19 2012 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
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Hmmm as far as fantasy MMO settings are concerned there are a few out there that just got released or will be in the near future.


Archeage probably won't be out till the end of 2013 for the NA/EU market at the earliest.


Blade & Soul probably is in the same boat as Archeage as far as when it may get released.


Both of these games will have multiple closed/open beta stages so it will take a while. I think both are setting up for 4-5 beta stages, so it will be quite extensive.


SWTOR is tons of fun especially the level 1-49 content. But there are several threads on the official site just talking about how level 50 content right now is well... broken. I have a level 48 Sage and it has been a fun ride the entire time. I'm going to hop to either my Bounty Hunter or my Imperial Agent and give it a whirl.


But yeah so far my only gripe about the game is how it really feels like a single player, with the MMO "feature" as a side thing from level 1-49. I love to party, but most people won't unless it is for Heroics 4. And that is less than 5% of the entire content in the game from level 1-49. As far as challenge is concerned, I give it a 2 out of 10. I think I finally found the 1st challenging fight at when I hit level 46. I gave FXIV a 1 out of 10 in the challenge department, and no Ifrit was not challenging. I found people rage quitting over him because of the lag factor, which was partly true since I would see dead bodies skid all the way to the edge. Thankfully I didn't have that problem.


Diablo 3 isn't an MMO (although for some reason some sites classify as so) it is more of an MMO-with-some-elements-of-an-RPG-but-mostly-an-action/adventure. Kind of a long name there. I think most people will play this along side with their favorite MMO (that is if they even pick up this title).


TERA Online I can already tell it isn't going to do well. It already had 2 major server merges in South Korea, and one major merge coming on the 25th for NHN Japan. Frogster handling any game is most likely dead on arrival for Europeans. So that leaves NA, 1 out of the 4 regions that "may" potentially do well. I played open beta J-TERA and had a blast. But outside of the combat (which was amazing) there is very little new that it offers to the MMO table. However, everything else is very well polished, and I really loved the music as well.


I think it comes down to how NCSoft handles it. While some of the problems that Aion had got resolved here, there are still some major ones that have turned people off. And considering that half the team from En Masse were from NCWest... well I would tread cautiously. I am still playing the game day 1, but if they handle the game like they did Aion, then I am sorry but I am parachuting around the 3-6 month mark.


And then there was Guild Wars 2. Now I am not calling it the next coming. And I am seriously avoiding the site till the beta comes out so I don't get hyped up too much. But I guess we shall see how this game goes.


I guess Final Fantasy Version 2.0 may actually have some breathing room if it comes out early 2013 without any delays of course.


Oh yeah and I totally agree TwiddleDee... the MMO landscape for those games: or the golden era as I like to call it from 1996-2004 is completely different than 2005-2011 and what we have now going forward.
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#194 Jan 19 2012 at 7:49 PM Rating: Good
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FFXIV really hasn't fixed any serious core issues. They never balanced out leveling and never fixed the economy which are essential to any games success. Getting rid of lag is not an accomplishment, it's something that should have been fixed a day after release. The fact that it took a year to fix it is whats so discouraging.

I'm pretty sure SWtor will be successful, mainly because its a single player RPG turned into an MMO and it has 8 insanely long storylines that people can do at their own pace over time. Put another way, its like 20 KOTORs mixed into 1.

But i completely agree, MMOs have lost their magic in this desperation to appeal to the masses. If SE was smart (and they aren't), they would make FFXIV into an actual FF. Have a long story like KOTOR, make lots of really cool ffxi-like quests. Then have a system that mixes questing with grinding. Make it so you can solo through the entire game on ONE job using the quests and stuff, and then make group grinding for other jobs. This gives people a choice of how to level. If your casual you can take your time and solo up through quests. If your more hardcore you can exp faster via groups.

SE could create an epic magical world using BALANCE. Like in FFXI you can make mobs agro so that to see higher level areas you have to level up, making the game feel like an adventure. There should be villages in the middle of nowhere, huge vast areas that are difficult to get through, "god" areas like sky, etc. And there should be stuff to do everywhere you go. None of this "80% of the world is reserved for higher levels" junk.

But i doubt that will happen. We will get a graphics and UI upgrade and the same basic game and story.
#195 Jan 19 2012 at 10:26 PM Rating: Decent
Azurymber wrote:
theSubligaravenger wrote:
Azurymber wrote:
i can't stand WoW but i love SWtor. It may have the same "battle system" or UI like WoW, but the game is nothing like it. And it's on a completely different level than FFXIV is.
SWtor has:


The great thing is SE already had an MMO that had the majority of the features you listed, sans the flight sim naturally. While your list is quite accurate you relist what amounts to the same features seperately, i imagine to aritificially inflate it. but really now, your first 2 points could be consolidated for example.

But again i ask why are you still repeatedly attacking the current game when you know they are and have been working on what amounts to (hopefully) a completely different game? If SWTOR is that great why are you even here? are you still that upset about the state of the game? and who are these posts for? the majority of us here agree with you..





first 2 points are different. one is about the story being good, the other is about length. FFXIVs story was really short and further, it was a convoluted mess.

I'm not attacking the current game, i'm pointing out that based on experience the dev team will not be able to put a good game together.

They said 2.0 isn't going to be a different game. I run a business and do economic consulting and i can tell you 100% that unless they scrap gil as the main currency, 2.0 will be released with a failing economy.

The list was because someone had pointed out i was overexagerating and couldn't list 100 things. And like i said, if i get into details i could list a lot more.

And i'm posting because this is a debate thread and people keep saying that starwars is just a rehash of WoW (which it really isn't in any way) and that 2.0 could be successful.

I like the optimism but my point is that the dev team has got nothing right. Balancing a game is not difficult, its a matter of changing a few formulas. And if a team can't balance a game or work out a functioning economy in over a year, they are incompetent.
Then when you see customer relations mistakes like a broken billing system that excludes regions and uses shady middlemen, and even charging at a horrible time when a much better mmo was just released, you have to ask yourself if its SE holding the game back.

Even if the game is perfect, this billing system alone will drive off a huge % of potential players. And its likely to have a horrid launch like ffxiv with lag and messed up servers, resulting in even more people immediately leaving.

The dev team and SE have fixed -no- core issues at all so far. And trust me, it takes a long time to beta test an economy. So if they don't start beta testing soon you can pretty well be 100% sure the game will lack a functioning economy or be exploitable.


your first 2 points are story related, its artificial inflation.

Who said 2.0 isnt going to be different?

this roadmap clearly states one level of development as radical changes to in game world, also check the Rebuilding phases they have planned. but you're right that doesnt sound different at all.

The economy will be fine no matter what happens, if you honestly believe it will ruin the game youve clearly never played an MMO before, they only work slightly like real life. New players will be fine, you're overreacting.

2.0 has every chance to be successfull, You keep saying the dev team hasnt done anything, yet we have not yet seen their real work and wont until 2.0. regardless of the state of the game now if they make a good game it will succeed.

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#196 Jan 20 2012 at 12:00 AM Rating: Good
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theSubligaravenger wrote:
Azurymber wrote:
theSubligaravenger wrote:
Azurymber wrote:
i can't stand WoW but i love SWtor. It may have the same "battle system" or UI like WoW, but the game is nothing like it. And it's on a completely different level than FFXIV is.
SWtor has:


The great thing is SE already had an MMO that had the majority of the features you listed, sans the flight sim naturally. While your list is quite accurate you relist what amounts to the same features seperately, i imagine to aritificially inflate it. but really now, your first 2 points could be consolidated for example.

But again i ask why are you still repeatedly attacking the current game when you know they are and have been working on what amounts to (hopefully) a completely different game? If SWTOR is that great why are you even here? are you still that upset about the state of the game? and who are these posts for? the majority of us here agree with you..





first 2 points are different. one is about the story being good, the other is about length. FFXIVs story was really short and further, it was a convoluted mess.

I'm not attacking the current game, i'm pointing out that based on experience the dev team will not be able to put a good game together.

They said 2.0 isn't going to be a different game. I run a business and do economic consulting and i can tell you 100% that unless they scrap gil as the main currency, 2.0 will be released with a failing economy.

The list was because someone had pointed out i was overexagerating and couldn't list 100 things. And like i said, if i get into details i could list a lot more.

And i'm posting because this is a debate thread and people keep saying that starwars is just a rehash of WoW (which it really isn't in any way) and that 2.0 could be successful.

I like the optimism but my point is that the dev team has got nothing right. Balancing a game is not difficult, its a matter of changing a few formulas. And if a team can't balance a game or work out a functioning economy in over a year, they are incompetent.
Then when you see customer relations mistakes like a broken billing system that excludes regions and uses shady middlemen, and even charging at a horrible time when a much better mmo was just released, you have to ask yourself if its SE holding the game back.

Even if the game is perfect, this billing system alone will drive off a huge % of potential players. And its likely to have a horrid launch like ffxiv with lag and messed up servers, resulting in even more people immediately leaving.

The dev team and SE have fixed -no- core issues at all so far. And trust me, it takes a long time to beta test an economy. So if they don't start beta testing soon you can pretty well be 100% sure the game will lack a functioning economy or be exploitable.


your first 2 points are story related, its artificial inflation.

Who said 2.0 isnt going to be different?

this roadmap clearly states one level of development as radical changes to in game world, also check the Rebuilding phases they have planned. but you're right that doesnt sound different at all.

The economy will be fine no matter what happens, if you honestly believe it will ruin the game youve clearly never played an MMO before, they only work slightly like real life. New players will be fine, you're overreacting.

2.0 has every chance to be successfull, You keep saying the dev team hasnt done anything, yet we have not yet seen their real work and wont until 2.0. regardless of the state of the game now if they make a good game it will succeed.



economies do matter a lot. No one wants to play a game where everyone else has epic gear but they know they will have to grind 10 hours a day for 5 months to get the same gear. Further, a crafting system can't be stable without a stable currency, and when you have influxes of money (ppl coming back with 100mil) that's guarenteed inflation. That further means that they will be unable to price anything via npc because once the currency gets inflated people will be able to spam-buy stuff from npc that is normally not intended to be purchased in those amounts. Or you can overprice npc's and then new players think its impossible to get anything.

Just to be clear, I'm an economist. I run a firm that does economic consulting and e-marketing (essentially i use neuroscience to help companies sell stuff online, and at the same time help them move their product to new markets)

As such I have a background in behavioural psych, neuroscience/biology, economics, etc.

The psychology of demand for products is pretty clear. You launch a product and get all this hype with that launch. If you succeed, great. you turn your product into a brand and release more products that appeal to other "target markets" under the same brand name. If another target market is a significantly different population you may want to rebrand (like cars having a diff brand for their high-end stuff)

If you fail, like FFXIV did, you distance yourself, re-brand, and do whatever marketing tricks it takes to make it look like a totally new product.

From an economic perspective, SE has no idea what they are doing. They messed up FFXI's economy by allowing rusty-cap fishing which resulted in invisible inflation (lots of gil entered the market but wasn't being spent). Then one christmas all the RMT companies had huge sales due to a competition war, and immediately millions of gil actively flowed into an economy where people had high demand (christmas gifts and lots of ppl on break with time to play). This caused prices to skyrocket. For example on my server woodvilles axe went from 200k to over 3mil in about 2 days, with more than 5 or 10 being sold. Almost all items got highly inflated like this.
This essentially killed the FFXI market and resulted in SE having to make almost all good items rare/ex. It took 4+ years before the economy balanced out.
Understandable though. It was a mistake based on an exploit that they took too long to fix. lesson learned? no.

FFXIV comes out, and even in the beta myself and other economists (some doing their Ph.Ds) all post explaining how messed up the economic system is, how their will be massive inflation, and how the ward system will not function as intended.
Did SE change anything? no. They made the -exact- same mistake as in FFXI and allowed for massive inflation. Then they took months to fix it. The damage was done.
Now there are ways to mitigate this. Has SE done them? No. SE has -no- idea what they are doing economics-wise. That leads me and many others to think they don't have an economist helping them develop the market. Not sayin programmers and game devs aren't smart, but the aren't really qualified to run a stable economy.

Moving on to marketing.
You have a game that failed, with horrible reviews across the internet, considered to be a joke by many people.
Even the average person could figure out what to do here.
You create a new image, final fantasy 15. final fantasy online warriors. whatever works.
you do -NOT- call it final fantasy XIV 2.0.
you do not even call it that in early dev stages.
They have pre-ruined their chances at success, because no site or reviewer will discuss 2.0 without putting it in the context of xiv which failed. You immediately just associated tons of negativity and negative press with a new product not even out yet.
its like releasing a blackberry phone that fails, redoing it and releasing it with the same name. Its not going to succeed because everyone already neurologically associates that phone with failure.
You do not charge for a broken game -at all-. Why? because a ton of people quit, say F*** it, and move to a better company. Why would they return to your new game?

These are but a few serious mistakes SE is already making.
And they aren't small little mistakes. they are massive mistakes.

go to google.com and search "final fantasy 14 2.0"
If the first 5-10 articles do not mindlessly support how great 2.0 will be, their marketing team has failed already.

protip: you get a kotaku article that starts with "Online role-playing game Final Fantasy XIV's launch was an enormous disappointment. "
and
a joystiq article followed by a bunch of negative comments
and
ffxiv's wiki page
etc.
All these convey negativity. Products should never be conveyed negatively. Companies know this because they often edit their own wiki pages + rate their own products highly.

what should be done?
1. FFXIV 2.0 should be renamed and branded as a sequel with character transfer
2. FFXIV 2.0 should have a shiny pretty flash site, showcasing all the cool stuff currently in pdf format and more
3. FFXIV 2.0 should be promoted via media so the first 10 results you get are "ffxiv 2.0 will be super awesome and the best game ever. all the past problems are fixed, all this cool new technology is in this one"
4. FFXIV should be removed from all store shelves, and only sold online for now. This will reduce the exposure to people seeing "ffxiv: $20" at gamestop (which again, suggests to ppl the games outdated and has failed).

and this should be done -NOW- so that when the game is re-released, there are already epic articles, hype, etc, in the google rankings, and all the current negativity should be pushed away. The new name should make it so when you search for it you don't see the old reviews of 5.0 and 4.0 for ffxiv. etc.

but the point still stands, the current team is incompetent. They have no idea how to run an ingame economy, and they have no idea how to run a marketing campaign. And I'm sure people in other professions like graphics design and game design could come up with ways that they are incompetent in those fields (like taking 3 weeks to dev a goobue mount)

Edited, Jan 20th 2012 1:04am by Azurymber
#197 Jan 20 2012 at 12:37 AM Rating: Default
Azurymber wrote:


Just to be clear, I'm an economist. I run a firm that does economic consulting and e-marketing (essentially i use neuroscience to help companies sell stuff online, and at the same time help them move their product to new markets)

As such I have a background in behavioural psych, neuroscience/biology, economics, etc.



Ok Mr. Economist, it doesn't matter how they market 2.0 because people like you will still be here to try it out when it is released. **** you think 1.0 is crap and they're marketing 2.0 wrong and you're playing the "most awesome" MMO that's out right now, yet you're still hanging out on these boards. IMO that proves that at least no matter how bad a product is as long as you have brand recognition and a chance to correct what you did wrong people are going to come back to your product. Also it doesn't matter if there are negative comments mixed in with 2.0 articles. 2.0 isn't even out yet! If 2.0 turns out to be awesome, then critics are going to make positive news articles and you'll see comments like "1.0 sucks, but I'll give 2.0 a try." or "I've been playing since the beginning of 1.0 and 2.0 is 100 times better." and a couple of troll comments like "LOL FFXIV is still alive?".

Anyway I feel like some of the other posters, I think the MMO genre is dying or at least people are getting bored with it. It seems like there's a new MMO every 6 months and they're all pretty much the same thing. To me GW2 seems very exciting and different, but I have a feeling that it's going to be same as the others. The genre probably won't change until Blizzard releases their next MMO.

Edited, Jan 20th 2012 1:43am by MutamixBubblypots
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#198 Jan 20 2012 at 3:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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MutamixBubblypots wrote:
Ok Mr. Economist, it doesn't matter how they market 2.0 because people like you will still be here to try it out when it is released. **** you think 1.0 is crap and they're marketing 2.0 wrong and you're playing the "most awesome" MMO that's out right now, yet you're still hanging out on these boards. IMO that proves that at least no matter how bad a product is as long as you have brand recognition and a chance to correct what you did wrong people are going to come back to your product.


Taking the actions of a single person and using that as "proof" of the actions of any significant amount of people is insane. If you don't think so, imagine how foolish I'd sound if I said "I know this guy who played FF14 and he quit, and hasn't looked at anything FF14 related since. IMO this proves that if consumers don't like a product they won't give that product another look."
#199 Jan 20 2012 at 3:19 AM Rating: Good
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Susanoh wrote:
MutamixBubblypots wrote:
Ok Mr. Economist, it doesn't matter how they market 2.0 because people like you will still be here to try it out when it is released. **** you think 1.0 is crap and they're marketing 2.0 wrong and you're playing the "most awesome" MMO that's out right now, yet you're still hanging out on these boards. IMO that proves that at least no matter how bad a product is as long as you have brand recognition and a chance to correct what you did wrong people are going to come back to your product.


Taking the actions of a single person and using that as "proof" of the actions of any significant amount of people is insane. If you don't think so, imagine how foolish I'd sound if I said "I know this guy who played FF14 and he quit, and hasn't looked at anything FF14 related since. IMO this proves that if consumers don't like a product they won't give that product another look."


Conversely, ignoring hundreds of thousands of people's experiences would be just as insane, imho.

"They sold how many copies and THIS is how many people still play?!"

Edited, Jan 20th 2012 4:19am by hexaemeron
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#200 Jan 20 2012 at 3:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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542 posts
I agree with the above too. And quite honestly, the average person who quits an MMO likely doesn't hover around it for a few years hoping for it to get better. Those who do, I would imagine, are a great minority, making it all the more crazy to use this group as proof of anything.

EDIT: I do think FFXIV has an uphill battle because of the negative stigma it already carries. I mean, to put things in perspective, imagine if games like Rift or Aion were to go "2.0," would you expect a massive amount of people to start talking about them again? A few would look into it, but most of those who don't already care about those games wouldn't give them another glance, and both of those games were more well received than FFXIV. We all post on FFXIV related boards and talk about FFXIV related info, and most of us will probably at the very least look into what 2.0 offers if not try it out. It's not us SE has to convince. It's the ones that don't.

Edited, Jan 20th 2012 4:36am by Susanoh
#201 Jan 20 2012 at 3:37 AM Rating: Good
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Susanoh wrote:
I agree with the above too. And quite honestly, the average person who quits an MMO likely doesn't hover around it for a few years hoping for it to get better. Those who do, I would imagine, are a great minority, making it all the more crazy to use this group as proof of anything.

EDIT: I do think FFXIV has an uphill battle because of the negative stigma it already carries. I mean, to put things in perspective, imagine if games like Rift or Aion were to go "2.0," would you expect a massive amount of people to start talking about them again? A few would look into it, but most of those who don't already care about those games wouldn't give them another glance, and both of those games were more well received than FFXIV. We all post on FFXIV related boards and talk about FFXIV related info, and most of us will probably at the very least look into what 2.0 offers if not try it out. It's not us SE has to convince. It's the ones that don't.

Edited, Jan 20th 2012 4:36am by Susanoh


Oh, they absolutely have to convince me. Once burned, twice shy. I'll wait until the 2.0 reviews roll in.
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