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Post population #'s now since p2p is upFollow

#52 Jan 09 2012 at 8:35 PM Rating: Default
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Whales wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Next we have SW:TOR. People claimed it sold millions, and PCU was 350k. If we apply the WoW model, that means it has 2.1m active sub upon release, which does in fact support the claims. Unless of course once again you're saying that those claims are baseless, sub is much lower.


No, I have no idea what the numbers are for SWTOR, let alone how they correspond to FFXIV. The only thing I'm stating is that each game is distinct and in no way relates to each other, you can't use a formula for calculating subscribers to active players from WoW to Rift to SWTOR to FFXIV - there's just too many extraneous factors.

Furthermore my numbers were pure speculation and not to be taken as absolute, as we do not know the population numbers for FFXIV other than what players post here. You were claiming an inferred 6:1 ratio from one MMORPG as proof of this another MMORPG's population expectation - that's simply bad logic.


Edited, Jan 9th 2012 9:08pm by Whales


It's bad logic, unfortunately it's the only logic in calculating an active sub base. Any other calculation anyone posted so far, does not have a tiny bit of evidence to back it up. Furthermore, WoW is an international game just like FFXIV, so the PCU vs sub base makes more sense then if you're comparing to a game released in only one region where there PCU will differ a lot less compared to a sub base (because most of the player base will be of the same region). For example Aion Asia had a PCU of 600k, which is quite different to say WoW when it had PCU of 600k. You can say with confidence that a game released internationally should have more active sub than the game released in one region, if their PCU are the same.
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#53 Jan 09 2012 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
It's bad logic, unfortunately it's the only logic in calculating an active sub base. Any other calculation anyone posted so far, does not have a tiny bit of evidence to back it up. Furthermore, WoW is an international game just like FFXIV, so the PCU vs sub base makes more sense then if you're comparing to a game released in only one region where there PCU will differ a lot less compared to a sub base (because most of the player base will be of the same region). For example Aion Asia had a PCU of 600k, which is quite different to say WoW when it had PCU of 600k. You can say with confidence that a game released internationally should have more active sub than the game released in one region, if their PCU are the same.


I completely agree with you. My only trouble with such comparisons is given that FFXIV has had such a tumultuous lifespan and has subscription numbers in the thousands, tens of thousands at best, for an online game, seeing a correlation and comparison between a game with subscriptions in the millions is difficult.
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#54 Jan 09 2012 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Whales wrote:
Khornette wrote:
It's bad logic, unfortunately it's the only logic in calculating an active sub base. Any other calculation anyone posted so far, does not have a tiny bit of evidence to back it up. Furthermore, WoW is an international game just like FFXIV, so the PCU vs sub base makes more sense then if you're comparing to a game released in only one region where there PCU will differ a lot less compared to a sub base (because most of the player base will be of the same region). For example Aion Asia had a PCU of 600k, which is quite different to say WoW when it had PCU of 600k. You can say with confidence that a game released internationally should have more active sub than the game released in one region, if their PCU are the same.


I completely agree with you. My only trouble with such comparisons is given that FFXIV has had such a tumultuous lifespan and has subscription numbers in the thousands, tens of thousands at best, for an online game, seeing a correlation and comparison between a game with subscriptions in the millions is difficult.


Right, when you just agree with me that any estimate would be bogus. Until SE post the active sub figure, you can't state anything about that. My method is the most sensible one so far in guessing the figure. Also, no matter what the player base is, there ought to be some correlation in the PCU and active sub because they are MMORPG. Otherwise there is no sense in asking for population count at any given time, because what are you gonna do with that figure huh?
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#55 Jan 09 2012 at 9:57 PM Rating: Good
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AkumaOkami wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Whales wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Peak Concurrent Users of WoW when it had 12m sub (rounded) was under 2m. So active sub = 6 times Peak Concurrent Users.


Those figures apply to World of Warcraft, if they are correct. This is FFXIV - any attempt at correlation between the two, especially in the realm of subscription-based content, is comparing apples to radiators, especially any ratios of active subscribers to peak concurrent users.

Or was that post tongue-in-cheek and in jest and I just completely missed it? It was quite the leap in logic that is quite humorous in an attempt at parody.

Edited, Jan 9th 2012 7:26pm by Whales


Because your attempt at calculating out active sub base does not have anything to support it, apart from your lol-dead-game. At least I have the WoW example. WoW is this hugely popular MMORPG, the difference between PCU and active sub should be much lower compared to something declared boring. Or are you saying that despite WoW being hugely popular and interesting, their player base only pay sub to not playing?

Next we have SW:TOR. People claimed it sold millions, and PCU was 350k. If we apply the WoW model, that means it has 2.1m active sub upon release, which does in fact support the claims. Unless of course once again you're saying that those claims are baseless, sub is much lower.


And this.

Now, instead of people feeling the need to just argue for the sake of arguing, can we get back to the original topic? I'd like to see numbers and less tardflames.


Yeah I know right. I was looking more for numbers, not for ******* contests.
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#56 Jan 10 2012 at 2:54 AM Rating: Good
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I have been checking my server (Besaid) often for population numbers. I posted earlier that I saw a drop but since then I've been keeping up on it. I'm completely aware that there probably have been some decline in population but I have not really seen it personally. Searched a couple of times the past couple days and came up with 180-200/200 DoW, 150ish DoM, 80ish DoL, and 180ish DoH. They arent exact numbers (as I am not logged in right now) but that's pretty much what I've been seeing. Still kinda low though would like to have more people! :) The P2P hasn't seemed to show a large impact on my game play...at least on my server. I can't speak for the other ones.
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#57 Jan 10 2012 at 3:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Like was said, if we look at the simultaneous logins as the total number of players being subscribed said approach would be fundamentally wrong. We could look up XI's concurrent user numbers and even in the best case it would be about 15x 2-3k (30 000-45 000). That doesn't translate into XI having 45k active players at best. It is apparent that the game still has at least 200 000 active players.

Total simultaneous logins are the only credible numbers we have right now, but it is impossible to make out the total sub numbers out of that. While XIV is no XI or WoW, it wouldn't be a stretch to compare them as they have fairly similar payment structure. XI is a smaller scale WoW and XIV is a smaller scale XI.

In any case, 50k might be too much, but 10k is not even close. 50k subscribers would translate to 500k in SE's pockets every month. That should pay for the server upkeep & 7th Era content, GM salary and Yoshi-P's coffee&cigs.

Edited, Jan 10th 2012 12:51pm by Hyanmen
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#58 Jan 10 2012 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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There is no way this game has even close to 50k subs, 10-15K would be more realistic, even 20k is a little bit out there(Tho still possible).

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#59 Jan 10 2012 at 11:05 AM Rating: Decent
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So while in every single other MMO out there at most 1/5th of the total playerbase is online at the same time, in FFXIV's case at least half of the total playerbase is playing at the same time, because there's no way more than 20k subs would be possible regardless of the evidence stating that to be exactly the case. I am convinced.
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#60 Jan 10 2012 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
So while in every single other MMO out there at most 1/5th of the total playerbase is online at the same time, in FFXIV's case at least half of the total playerbase is playing at the same time, because there's no way more than 20k subs would be possible regardless of the evidence stating that to be exactly the case. I am convinced.


In other MMOS, studies have shown that during primetime 1/4 of all active players are engaged in PVP combat. Therefore we can conclude that in FFXIV 1/4 of the current players are engaged in PVP content during primetime. Evidence shows this to be exactly the case.
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#61 Jan 10 2012 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Whales wrote:
In other MMOS, studies have shown that during primetime 1/4 of all active players are engaged in PVP combat. Therefore we can conclude that in FFXIV 1/4 of the current players are engaged in PVP content during primetime. Evidence shows this to be exactly the case.


FFXIV does not have PVP content.

If you wanted to say that the situations aren't comparable, where's the reasoning? The reasoning behind the assumption that XIV's playerbase is much, much more active than any other MMO's playerbase, so much so that every single active player is online every single day at the same time. Nope, not a stretch at all.

Edited, Jan 10th 2012 9:17pm by Hyanmen
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#62 Jan 10 2012 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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To be honest I have been seeing a good amount new players the past week. I'm a rather new player as well so I keep an eye out for them. Have had 4 players join one of the linkshells I am in today (one was a pair, bf/gf) who had started in the past few days. Kinda interesting to note. Although some people have left, some are deciding to join for one reason or another. But hey, from what I hear Besaid is one of the popular servers and am not too sure this is being seen across the board.
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#63 Jan 10 2012 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I logged on Cornelia last night and while I didn't actually check population numbers there were a bunch of people in Ul'dah chatting in say, shouting, crafting, parties teleing out and people running up from the tele crystal. My LS went and did the Moogle fight a few times and there were other groups there too. Side note, I got the wand on my first win!

I know some servers are ghost towns, but mine seems pretty good based on a Monday night.

How are you guys getting the population numbers? Just searching all zones through the party finder?
#64 Jan 10 2012 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm going to guess that maybe the P2P revived the player's energy. Cornelia has been fairly dead since like 2 weeks after 1.18.
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#65 Jan 10 2012 at 3:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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apapertiger wrote:
I'm going to guess that maybe the P2P revived the player's energy. Cornelia has been fairly dead since like 2 weeks after 1.18.


Really? The hours I play there are usually several LS actively doing things.
#66 Jan 10 2012 at 3:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Yelta wrote:
I logged on Cornelia last night and while I didn't actually check population numbers there were a bunch of people in Ul'dah chatting in say, shouting, crafting, parties teleing out and people running up from the tele crystal. My LS went and did the Moogle fight a few times and there were other groups there too. Side note, I got the wand on my first win!

I know some servers are ghost towns, but mine seems pretty good based on a Monday night.

How are you guys getting the population numbers? Just searching all zones through the party finder?


Ya, you can use the party search feature, change the level range from 1-50, and search by GC. Then you add up the total of each GC and voilà! Ul'Dah always seems busy, it's the main hub, there can be 150 people in Ul'Dah, but only 300-400 outside doing things, often giving you your total of 400-500 players. I'm still curious about these weekly numbers though, haven't seen too many. Most were from Fri-Sun.
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#67 Jan 10 2012 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Ya, you can use the party search feature, change the level range from 1-50, and search by GC. Then you add up the total of each GC and voilà! Ul'Dah always seems busy, it's the main hub, there can be 150 people in Ul'Dah, but only 300-400 outside doing things, often giving you your total of 400-500 players. I'm still curious about these weekly numbers though, haven't seen too many. Most were from Fri-Sun.

Thanks, I will give that a try.

Edited, Jan 10th 2012 4:39pm by Yelta
#68 Jan 10 2012 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
There is no way this game has even close to 50k subs, 10-15K would be more realistic, even 20k is a little bit out there(Tho still possible).



On what basis, do tell. Or that your claim is as great as industry statistic like the 2m PCU and 12m sub based for WoW? I didn't know that, then please do tell how many sub SW:TOR currently have given their highest PCU is 350k? I'm very very curious. Oh and Rift as well, since people (not Trion) claimed it had 1m sub at launch when Trion themselves said after 3 months from launch the total copies they SOLD (not shipped, sold and registered and played) was nearly 1m and that the 1m-th customer would have something special (did they ever tell what that was?). People like to put up bogus claim without anything to back themselves.
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#69 Jan 10 2012 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
Khornette wrote:
Ostia wrote:
There is no way this game has even close to 50k subs, 10-15K would be more realistic, even 20k is a little bit out there(Tho still possible).



On what basis, do tell. Or that your claim is as great as industry statistic like the 2m PCU and 12m sub based for WoW? I didn't know that, then please do tell how many sub SW:TOR currently have given their highest PCU is 350k? I'm very very curious. Oh and Rift as well, since people (not Trion) claimed it had 1m sub at launch when Trion themselves said after 3 months from launch the total copies they SOLD (not shipped, sold and registered and played) was nearly 1m and that the 1m-th customer would have something special (did they ever tell what that was?). People like to put up bogus claim without anything to back themselves.


The only way to really know, is if SE comes out and says, this is how many paying customers we have! We can guess all we want, but we have no clue how many of these players don't log out, or play 14 hours a day, or are repeat players...you get the point. Games like FFXI have long time customers, still paying, who won't log on for weeks, months at a time, it's hard to factor in players like that.
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#70 Jan 10 2012 at 10:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ouch, if I am doing it right... 326 on right now.
#71 Jan 11 2012 at 4:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
Ostia wrote:
There is no way this game has even close to 50k subs, 10-15K would be more realistic, even 20k is a little bit out there(Tho still possible).



On what basis, do tell. Or that your claim is as great as industry statistic like the 2m PCU and 12m sub based for WoW? I didn't know that, then please do tell how many sub SW:TOR currently have given their highest PCU is 350k? I'm very very curious. Oh and Rift as well, since people (not Trion) claimed it had 1m sub at launch when Trion themselves said after 3 months from launch the total copies they SOLD (not shipped, sold and registered and played) was nearly 1m and that the 1m-th customer would have something special (did they ever tell what that was?). People like to put up bogus claim without anything to back themselves.


On the basis that WOW is WOW, and FFXIV is well a failure ?
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#72 Jan 11 2012 at 4:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Ostia wrote:
There is no way this game has even close to 50k subs, 10-15K would be more realistic, even 20k is a little bit out there(Tho still possible).



On what basis, do tell. Or that your claim is as great as industry statistic like the 2m PCU and 12m sub based for WoW? I didn't know that, then please do tell how many sub SW:TOR currently have given their highest PCU is 350k? I'm very very curious. Oh and Rift as well, since people (not Trion) claimed it had 1m sub at launch when Trion themselves said after 3 months from launch the total copies they SOLD (not shipped, sold and registered and played) was nearly 1m and that the 1m-th customer would have something special (did they ever tell what that was?). People like to put up bogus claim without anything to back themselves.


On the basis that WOW is WOW, and FFXIV is well a failure ?


So you're saying that WoW players (I repeat this many times over) pay the subs but never log on to the game, which created such a "huge" difference between PCU and total subs? No wonder Blizzard racks in the moohlah, because people are that dumb.
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#73 Jan 11 2012 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
Here are a couple numbers from the XIV official forums:

"Last night at 8pm EST Palamecia logged 192 users online for the second night in a row."

"Had 202 on Bodhum just now."

"Well , the population sure is a bit low (this evening about 8.00 pm GMT+9 only 103 ppl online so far)" This one was on Palamecia also.

So ya, weekday numbers are looking very low if you're someone who enjoys playing evenings after work.


Edited, Jan 11th 2012 5:02pm by Montsegurnephcreep
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#74 Jan 11 2012 at 3:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Here are a couple numbers from the XIV official forums:

"Last night at 8pm EST Palamecia logged 192 users online for the second night in a row."

"Had 202 on Bodhum just now."

So ya, weekday numbers are looking very low if you're someone who enjoys playing evenings after work.


I suspect as rough as those numbers are, it's going to get worse as people get frustrated either

1.) Doing the same two things over and over again
2.) Can't even find people to get tired of doing the same two things over and over again.
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#75 Jan 11 2012 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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I was a bit worried about that :/. I know some servers aren't affected, but I know others are. As I have stated before, I think this game maybe a lost cause, at least for me, I hope FFXIV's 2.0 version changes things, and my mind. Sad to say I have signed up for WoW, mostly cause my close gal pal plays it so I would be having more fun with her. I'm still going to keep my fingers crossed his game gets resurrected.
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#76 Jan 11 2012 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Ostia wrote:
There is no way this game has even close to 50k subs, 10-15K would be more realistic, even 20k is a little bit out there(Tho still possible).



On what basis, do tell. Or that your claim is as great as industry statistic like the 2m PCU and 12m sub based for WoW? I didn't know that, then please do tell how many sub SW:TOR currently have given their highest PCU is 350k? I'm very very curious. Oh and Rift as well, since people (not Trion) claimed it had 1m sub at launch when Trion themselves said after 3 months from launch the total copies they SOLD (not shipped, sold and registered and played) was nearly 1m and that the 1m-th customer would have something special (did they ever tell what that was?). People like to put up bogus claim without anything to back themselves.


On the basis that WOW is WOW, and FFXIV is well a failure ?


So you're saying that WoW players (I repeat this many times over) pay the subs but never log on to the game, which created such a "huge" difference between PCU and total subs? No wonder Blizzard racks in the moohlah, because people are that dumb.


Well i never said that, but it could be the case, i know a lot of people that only play wow for the pvp, others just do the weekly istances and raids and dont log on until next week, but the large majority just find things to do in-game, after all wow is way much varied than FFXIV.
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#77 Jan 11 2012 at 5:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
"Last night at 8pm EST Palamecia logged 192 users online for the second night in a row."


lol - do you think it's the same 192 people!?
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#78 Jan 11 2012 at 5:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Khornette wrote:


So you're saying that WoW players (I repeat this many times over) pay the subs but never log on to the game, which created such a "huge" difference between PCU and total subs? No wonder Blizzard racks in the moohlah, because people are that dumb.


eh I bought a box to try it out I've played it like 3 times so far... won't be subbing, but I guess I would be one of those people not playing and paying

it probably draws a lot of new players like me who give it a shot and go "meh"
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#79 Jan 11 2012 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus wrote:
Khornette wrote:


So you're saying that WoW players (I repeat this many times over) pay the subs but never log on to the game, which created such a "huge" difference between PCU and total subs? No wonder Blizzard racks in the moohlah, because people are that dumb.


eh I bought a box to try it out I've played it like 3 times so far... won't be subbing, but I guess I would be one of those people not playing and paying

it probably draws a lot of new players like me who give it a shot and go "meh"


Out of topic, but that's the problem with sub and purchase and whatnot. See, back in August which is 5 months after release, Trion declared they had sold over 1m copies (or in their words, had total over 1m customers). So Rift "whiteknights" instantly take that as they had over 1m active subs (incidentally they also had server merge sometimes around that). They have very different meaning. In the end it's all about moolah, and it does seem F2P is getting more and more profitable because people like to throw away their money http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/5963/Closing-the-Gap-on-WoW-.html

Edited, Jan 11th 2012 7:03pm by Khornette
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#80 Jan 11 2012 at 6:45 PM Rating: Good
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I remember reading somewhere that soon after P2P started for XIV that they were going to do server merges to balance out the player base and increase the overall avg pop per server. Is this still going to happen or was I mistaken about this?
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#81 Jan 12 2012 at 10:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Posted by Yoshi on 12/22

Quote Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida View Post
Hi, this is Producer/Director Yoshida here.

I understand your concern on the number of concurrent users.

Actually the world merge is currently in plan.

We will first analyze the number of players in the game after the billing service begins.
Based on that analysis, we will be running a simulation where the maximum concurrent access during the peak hours will become somewhere around 1500 to 2000 per World.
* The above number is provisional and not a finalized number.

And with the method on how the world merge will be done, it will not be done in a simple method where World A and World B will merge into a single new World.
In order for EU players to gather on the same server in a certain mass, we are planning to go with the method where the players from a World with a less population can designate the World they wish to transfer to.

With the details such as when and how it will be done, they will be announced once they are confirmed.
(I'm assuming that the next update should become available in mid-January.)
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#82 Jan 12 2012 at 10:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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~200 on at once average currently, and they want 1500-2000? How many servers are there now? This sounds like the number of servers is going to be reduced drastically.
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#83 Jan 12 2012 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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With how many people even log on this game anymore, they could probably do with having 2 or 3 servers tops...
#84 Jan 12 2012 at 11:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Vashteera wrote:
With how many people even log on this game anymore, they could probably do with having 2 or 3 servers tops...


Yea, that's what I have been thinking for quite awhile.

Another valid reason they should really just shut this bad boy down. Its a joke. They should shut it down, get 2.0 ready, have a solid closed beta testing period and actually listen to the testers. Then, have an open beta, have it reviewed, and not release until they know its right.

And most important, do not give a release date. Just say 2012. People get all weird when games are delayed.
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#85 Jan 12 2012 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
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Simool wrote:

Another valid reason they should really just shut this bad boy down.


Most likely still getting more revenue out of this than if they shut it down.

Plus, they aren't ******* off all the people who want to play.
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#86 Jan 12 2012 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
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There's no point in shutting it down, especially if you expect them to continue developing while it's shut down. You're just removing the only profit they're making.
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#87 Jan 12 2012 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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It's silly to assume that half of all players are playing at any given time, so the total number of subs (even if low) has to be enough that the income from the game is at least keeping it minimally afloat. Why give that up when you can have people pay every month to beta test your unreleased game?
#88 Jan 12 2012 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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2 reasons that I can come up with for shutting down the servers(without putting too much thought into it).

1. Cost - What is the cost of keeping the servers going per month? This cost would be the cost of servers plus the labor involved in keeping the servers going. With the monthly income from about 15K subscribers, I would think monthly income to be about 150K. So take 150K less the costs...and that's what they are pulling in. For a company the size of SE, 50-75K a month is not something to worry about. If so...they are in trouble.

2. Negative PR - As long as the servers are up and visible, releasing 2.0 will not come across as something special/new. It will just be considered an upgrade from what has been a disaster. The stinck of the previous version will stick to 2.0...regardless of how well 2.0 is put together.

As far as reasons to keep them, besides keeping those playing happy...I can't really think of any. The player base they need to make 2.0 successful is not the current player base. Those playing now are a given in the eyes of SE. If you are willing to pay for old version, they are banking on you paying for new version no questions asked.

SE's focus will be those they lost to SWOTOR, GW2, WOW, and yes, FFXI. Somehow they have to get the playerbase from 15K to a consistent 200-250K. They have to at least get to the levels of an aging FFXI.

I know they are keeping them open to basically "save face"...but I don't think SE ever thought it would get this bad.

If population numbers continue to drop...don't be surprised if this happens.


Edited, Jan 12th 2012 1:46pm by Simool
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#89 Jan 12 2012 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
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Simool wrote:
2 reasons that I can come up with for shutting down the servers(without putting too much thought into it).

1. Cost - What is the cost of keeping the servers going per month? This cost would be the cost of servers plus the labor involved in keeping the servers going. With the monthly income from about 15K subscribers, I would think monthly income to be about 150K. So take 150K less the costs...and that's what they are pulling in. For a company the size of SE, 50-75K a month is not something to worry about. If so...they are in trouble.

2. Negative PR - As long as the servers are up and visible, releasing 2.0 will not come across as something special/new. It will just be considered an upgrade from what has been a disaster. The stinck of the previous version will stick to 2.0...regardless of how well 2.0 is put together.

As far as reasons to keep them, besides keeping those playing happy...I can't really think of any. The player base they need to make 2.0 successful is not the current player base. Those playing now are a given in the eyes of SE. If you are willing to pay for old version, they are banking on you paying for new version no questions asked.

SE's focus will be those they lost to SWOTOR, GW2, WOW, and yes, FFXI. Somehow they have to get the playerbase from 15K to a consistent 200-250K. They have to at least get to the levels of an aging FFXI.

I know they are keeping them open to basically "save face"...but I don't think SE ever thought it would get this bad.

If population numbers continue to drop...don't be surprised if this happens.


Edited, Jan 12th 2012 1:46pm by Simool


Most, if not all of those players were lost because of FFXIV 1.x, not the pull of other games, imho.
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#90 Jan 12 2012 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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1,142 posts
Simool wrote:
2 reasons that I can come up with for shutting down the servers(without putting too much thought into it).

1. Cost - What is the cost of keeping the servers going per month? This cost would be the cost of servers plus the labor involved in keeping the servers going. With the monthly income from about 15K subscribers, I would think monthly income to be about 150K. So take 150K less the costs...and that's what they are pulling in. For a company the size of SE, 50-75K a month is not something to worry about. If so...they are in trouble.

2. Negative PR - As long as the servers are up and visible, releasing 2.0 will not come across as something special/new. It will just be considered an upgrade from what has been a disaster. The stinck of the previous version will stick to 2.0...regardless of how well 2.0 is put together.

As far as reasons to keep them, besides keeping those playing happy...I can't really think of any. The player base they need to make 2.0 successful is not the current player base. Those playing now are a given in the eyes of SE. If you are willing to pay for old version, they are banking on you paying for new version no questions asked.

SE's focus will be those they lost to SWOTOR, GW2, WOW, and yes, FFXI. Somehow they have to get the playerbase from 15K to a consistent 200-250K. They have to at least get to the levels of an aging FFXI.

I know they are keeping them open to basically "save face"...but I don't think SE ever thought it would get this bad.

If population numbers continue to drop...don't be surprised if this happens.


Edited, Jan 12th 2012 1:46pm by Simool


1) They are about to plan a server merge, the server costs are about to get lower. Besides, they ran the game for free for a while; I don't think they're concerned about server costs.

2) But at the risk of losing any and all player feedback? Do you think that's worth it? I'm not here to argue if SE actually takes into consideration our feedback, but if you shut it down (because of "bad" PR) then you lose out on continuing feedback to help shape the game in the right direction.
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#91 Jan 12 2012 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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9,526 posts
Zenoxio wrote:
~200 on at once average currently, and they want 1500-2000? How many servers are there now? This sounds like the number of servers is going to be reduced drastically.


yeah I'm thinking it will be three ... with one more NA, one more EU and one more JP. They probably won't force people to regional servers, but from the sound of that quote - they will be facilitating people moving to servers that are more regional
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#92 Jan 13 2012 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
I <3 FF series and have played all the games SE pushes out regardless if crap or not. However FFXIV is utter garbage and will not ever be worth the subscription, for so many reasons from content, jobs,even demanding on some of the best video cards. They need to understand we are at least 5 years behind them in technology, with exception to some super computers.
They should pull the plug and invest the money in FFXI, revamp it and get more people playing it, or start another project all together. I wish em the best and one day I hope we will all be ingame talking about the game instead of on forums and in threads.

And FYI you really can't compare SWToR to FFXIV only things they have in common is rpg and p2p other then that it is like a comparison of apples and oranges.(Sci-fi to Fantasy)

I am play SE Star Ocean the last hope currently.
I started playing Final Fantasy on original Nintendo(NES)
I have played every single Final Fantasy game in the series, even Game boy, DS, and DSI titles.
X-box gamer tag gtucker1219 invite me.
#93 Jan 13 2012 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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3,825 posts
Olorinus wrote:
Zenoxio wrote:
~200 on at once average currently, and they want 1500-2000? How many servers are there now? This sounds like the number of servers is going to be reduced drastically.


yeah I'm thinking it will be three ... with one more NA, one more EU and one more JP. They probably won't force people to regional servers, but from the sound of that quote - they will be facilitating people moving to servers that are more regional


I hope not, I'm only in the UK for a few more months... would suck to be stuck on a server whose population was dictated by a time zone.
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#94 Jan 13 2012 at 1:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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gtucker1219 wrote:

And FYI you really can't compare SWToR to FFXIV only things they have in common is rpg and p2p other then that it is like a comparison of apples and oranges.(Sci-fi to Fantasy)


Well...you can compare the two. SWOTOR looks like crap but there's a lot to do...FFXIV looks great but there's nothing to do. If they combine the two...we may have something. Moogles with blasters and Lala's with sabers...I could go for that.
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#95 Jan 13 2012 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
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2,202 posts
gtucker1219 wrote:
I <3 FF series and have played all the games SE pushes out regardless if crap or not. However FFXIV is utter garbage and will not ever be worth the subscription, for so many reasons from content, jobs,even demanding on some of the best video cards. They need to understand we are at least 5 years behind them in technology, with exception to some super computers.
They should pull the plug and invest the money in FFXI, revamp it and get more people playing it, or start another project all together. I wish em the best and one day I hope we will all be ingame talking about the game instead of on forums and in threads.

And FYI you really can't compare SWToR to FFXIV only things they have in common is rpg and p2p other then that it is like a comparison of apples and oranges.(Sci-fi to Fantasy)

I am play SE Star Ocean the last hope currently.
I started playing Final Fantasy on original Nintendo(NES)
I have played every single Final Fantasy game in the series, even Game boy, DS, and DSI titles.
X-box gamer tag gtucker1219 invite me.


But of course we cant compare Swotor to FFXIV, i mean they are both MMORPGS! FFS that would be like comparing Star ocean II to FFVI!! They are both RPGS set in different settings, while sharing everything else in Common! Obviously we all know that in Swotor they have sabers made out of light, and in FFXIV we have swords made out of metal :/
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#96 Jan 14 2012 at 12:41 AM Rating: Good
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625 on Cornelia right now.
#97 Jan 14 2012 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I will admit you can compare them about as much as one could compare STO to EVE or SWToR, by genre or by saying you fly ships and your in space but in many ways they are distinctive.
I really hopw FFXIV gets better I await 2.0 eagerly, I played FF11 for so many years(7-9) in essence it was my first mmo and laid the foundation on how I rate,compare, and what I look for in other mmo's.

Not really trying to sound smart lol, just smoked some bomb A$$ mids.

#98 Jan 14 2012 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,530 posts
gtucker1219 wrote:
I played FF11 for so many years(7-9) in essence it was my first mmo and laid the foundation on how I rate,compare, and what I look for in other mmo's.


This is the exact case for my wife and me. In a way, FFXI was a wonderful experience and, in a way, FFXI was an eternally corrupting experience. Though we believe that we received an "abundant recompense."
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#99 Jan 16 2012 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
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#100 Jan 17 2012 at 1:41 AM Rating: Good
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7,821 posts
Quote:
They should pull the plug and invest the money in FFXI, revamp it and get more people playing it, or start another project all together.


Well, they are kind of doing that now in regards to "pull the plug...,start another project all together." FFXIV-2.0 is basically a new project all together. If you read what they are going to do, it will basically be an entirely new game just instead of renaming it, its just FFXIV-2.0. Pretty much using what is in place as a template for what is to come. I'm not sure how it can viewed another way.

Back on topic, Besaid is still lively. Have had little to no problem finding exp parties, farming parties, and the likes. Still sadly it will be much, much better once they merge the servers.
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#101 Jan 17 2012 at 3:49 AM Rating: Default
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3,416 posts
XIV might have a stigma of a bad game but XI has a stigma of an old been there, done that game. You market it as a 'new game', it'll still be seen as a 10 year old game. It is stagnant and remake won't change that.

Plus, once again the new Dragon Quest game seems to have more in common with XI than people think.

Edited, Jan 17th 2012 12:50pm by Hyanmen
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