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A few thoughts regarding 2.0 and beyondFollow

#1 Feb 10 2012 at 3:57 PM Rating: Default
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Greetings everyone, I've been away from this forum for quite some time now and I thought I'd check back in.

I just wanted to say a few things I've been thinking about regarding 2.0 and hear what you guys are thinking / if anyone else is in the same boat.

When 2.0 comes out I'm going to come back to the game, I think the extra sales from the PS3 will help the game, and it will be cool to experience a lot of the new game with a large new influx of people... While the original game was a stinkfest, I think there is a lot of hope for the new game. I played up until a month ago, and I thought a lot of the improvements were pretty good.

It's actually pretty exciting to know that I already own a game, that's going to morph into a new game in t-minus how-many-ever-months.

Lastly, it's sad to see the state of SE with yet another sub-par FF release with FF XIII-2. I hate to say it, but if FF XIV 2.0 is a flop they're going to need something epic with FF XV or we could be seeing the end of a grand era. On this topic, I know that some people may like XIII/XIII-2, however I'm sure even you can agree these games aren't inline with the epicness that one should expect from a FF numbered game.

The sad part is, I don't see any other company making megahit JRPGs that can kick SEs **** into gear, and give them a little competition.
#2 Feb 12 2012 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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je355804 wrote:
Greetings everyone, I've been away from this forum for quite some time now and I thought I'd check back in.

I just wanted to say a few things I've been thinking about regarding 2.0 and hear what you guys are thinking / if anyone else is in the same boat.

When 2.0 comes out I'm going to come back to the game, I think the extra sales from the PS3 will help the game, and it will be cool to experience a lot of the new game with a large new influx of people... While the original game was a stinkfest, I think there is a lot of hope for the new game. I played up until a month ago, and I thought a lot of the improvements were pretty good.

It's actually pretty exciting to know that I already own a game, that's going to morph into a new game in t-minus how-many-ever-months.

Lastly, it's sad to see the state of SE with yet another sub-par FF release with FF XIII-2. I hate to say it, but if FF XIV 2.0 is a flop they're going to need something epic with FF XV or we could be seeing the end of a grand era. On this topic, I know that some people may like XIII/XIII-2, however I'm sure even you can agree these games aren't inline with the epicness that one should expect from a FF numbered game.

The sad part is, I don't see any other company making megahit JRPGs that can kick SEs **** into gear, and give them a little competition.


Well right of the bat, having the expectation that 2.0 will bring lots and lots of new players should be dropped, It is not a new game, it is not a new IP, and FF Online does not attract the entire FF Fanbase, that is just a fact of life, FFXI wish in my opinion is a far far superior product than XIV could not break the 1 million users, and it was released at a time where there where very few P2P MMO of quality, FFXIV could not break 1 million users, and it lost 90% of it's initial buyers in a month, now i'm not saying 2.0 will fail, certainly there is a chance that SE will go balls out and surprise us, but we are talking about SE, not Squaresoft so i'm very skeptical about their capabilities, specially in the MMO world, where they have had this tendency to develop current age MMO'S with 2 decade old gimmicks.

Also there are plenty of JRPG that are far superior to anything SE has done since the start of the Ps2 age, for example Persona 3 & 4 are way superior than anything SE dropped on the PS2 & PS3, Infinite space & Black sigil for the DS are great example of good old JRPG that are far superior to anything SE has dropped in that console, the only things that SE has released are old remakes of classics like FFTWOTL, and OGBTLUSCT.
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#3 Feb 12 2012 at 6:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:


certainly there is a chance that SE will go balls out and surprise us, but we are talking about SE, not Squaresoft so i'm very skeptical about their capabilities



So sad.... so true.

I was excited when Square merged... jokes on me!!!
#4 Feb 12 2012 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
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For some reason, i wasn't really surprised to see the game fail at launch. I was a bit surprised to see it fail that way though. When i look back at FFXi, there are a lot of reasons why the NA/EU launch was so succesfull. It was out a year before launching in NA/EU and the economic situation of the gaming industry and Japan is not what it was back in 2002/2003. Anyway, if I look back in those days where i did play many MMOs before playing FFXi, there were a lot of better products while fewer available than we have now. The market is flooded with crap right now and it keeps going down imo. I think SE is facing the same challenge as any gaming company at the moment or maybe they can't adapt to the market. Wathever, i just look at all the others MMOs/games and i get very cynical about it. When i look at SWTOR and how it had the chance to improve and bring something new to the genre, yet failing, it doesn't make me really optimistic cause they had the financial and time ressource to do so...
#5 Feb 12 2012 at 10:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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tr3p wrote:
I think SE is facing the same challenge as any gaming company at the moment or maybe they can't adapt to the market.


But there's the paradox of it all. It's SE's very desire to "adapt to the market" that has them purposely throwing off their previous trappings of success - especially with regard to the Final Fantasy franchise. In an effort to try and be what they're not, SE churns out games that few people truly like - old, devoted fans are left disappointed at the same time that new players are repelled by SE's disingenuous attempts to "update" their classic franchise.
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#6 Feb 12 2012 at 11:15 PM Rating: Good
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tr3p wrote:
For some reason, i wasn't really surprised to see the game fail at launch. I was a bit surprised to see it fail that way though. When i look back at FFXi, there are a lot of reasons why the NA/EU launch was so succesfull. It was out a year before launching in NA/EU and the economic situation of the gaming industry and Japan is not what it was back in 2002/2003. Anyway, if I look back in those days where i did play many MMOs before playing FFXi, there were a lot of better products while fewer available than we have now. The market is flooded with crap right now and it keeps going down imo. I think SE is facing the same challenge as any gaming company at the moment or maybe they can't adapt to the market. Wathever, i just look at all the others MMOs/games and i get very cynical about it. When i look at SWTOR and how it had the chance to improve and bring something new to the genre, yet failing, it doesn't make me really optimistic cause they had the financial and time ressource to do so...


Not trying to knock you or anything, but how is Swotor selling 2mil copies in a month and retaining 80% of the subs, failing ?
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#7 Feb 12 2012 at 11:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
tr3p wrote:
I think SE is facing the same challenge as any gaming company at the moment or maybe they can't adapt to the market.


But there's the paradox of it all. It's SE's very desire to "adapt to the market" that has them purposely throwing off their previous trappings of success - especially with regard to the Final Fantasy franchise. In an effort to try and be what they're not, SE churns out games that few people truly like - old, devoted fans are left disappointed at the same time that new players are repelled by SE's disingenuous attempts to "update" their classic franchise.



Couldn't say it better myself. I just have to sit back and wonder if they'll ever make a game that is held in the same regards as their classic again...?
#8 Feb 12 2012 at 11:44 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with this so much that I'm just going to bold the living poo out of it:

Ostia wrote:


Well right of the bat, having the expectation that 2.0 will bring lots and lots of new players should be dropped, It is not a new game, it is not a new IP, and FF Online does not attract the entire FF Fanbase, that is just a fact of life, FFXI wish in my opinion is a far far superior product than XIV could not break the 1 million users, and it was released at a time where there where very few P2P MMO of quality, FFXIV could not break 1 million users, and it lost 90% of it's initial buyers in a month, now i'm not saying 2.0 will fail, certainly there is a chance that SE will go balls out and surprise us, but we are talking about SE, not Squaresoft so i'm very skeptical about their capabilities, specially in the MMO world, where they have had this tendency to develop current age MMO'S with 2 decade old gimmicks.

Also there are plenty of JRPG that are far superior to anything SE has done since the start of the Ps2 age, for example Persona 3 & 4 are way superior than anything SE dropped on the PS2 & PS3, Infinite space & Black sigil for the DS are great example of good old JRPG that are far superior to anything SE has dropped in that console, the only things that SE has released are old remakes of classics like FFTWOTL, and OGBTLUSCT.


That felt good.

Also to re-iterate the most important fact. 2.0 is not a new game. After jobs they'll have time to do few adjustment patches before the year ends. Then we'll have the areas divided into zones with more landmarks in them. That's the biggest difference.

IMO the battle system has not improved at all and the revamp ended up being just stat tweaking.

Just a glimpse of Xenoblade proves that this style of battle control absolutely should not be this boring.
#9 Feb 13 2012 at 1:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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tr3p wrote:
For some reason, i wasn't really surprised to see the game fail at launch. I was a bit surprised to see it fail that way though. When i look back at FFXi, there are a lot of reasons why the NA/EU launch was so succesfull. It was out a year before launching in NA/EU and the economic situation of the gaming industry and Japan is not what it was back in 2002/2003. Anyway, if I look back in those days where i did play many MMOs before playing FFXi, there were a lot of better products while fewer available than we have now. The market is flooded with crap right now and it keeps going down imo. I think SE is facing the same challenge as any gaming company at the moment or maybe they can't adapt to the market. Wathever, i just look at all the others MMOs/games and i get very cynical about it. When i look at SWTOR and how it had the chance to improve and bring something new to the genre, yet failing, it doesn't make me really optimistic cause they had the financial and time ressource to do so...


I think the opposite is true, to be honest. FFXI released during a time when MMOs weren't as big as they are now, while FFXIV released into a saturated market that demands a game be up to par, else it be left behind. The market has evolved, and if players start playing a game and they don't like it, there's plenty of other games they can and will jump to. SWTOR may not be the most revolutionary MMO the world has ever seen, but it is a game that released with content that a decent amount of players are willing to not only stick around to play, but to actually pay for (over a million paid past their trial date according to a few articles last month). FFXIV, likewise, didn't have to be revolutionary either. They sold a lot of copies and didn't even charge for over a year. All they needed to do was make the experience enjoyable enough to make people want to play it. In the state it was released compared to what the competition is offering, there's no question why it has the population it does at the moment.
#10 Feb 13 2012 at 8:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm curious as to how the FFXIV team is going to balance the need for a MMORPG environment in 2.0 that's friendly for new player participation and the already established max-level players alike.

As anyone who plays right now can tell you, this game is unbelievable top heavy, which creates a huge rift between camps of established players and the sparse and isolated population of new players - 2.0 will not succeed if this environment is allowed to continue. It's problematic however because you can't relaunch and reset everyone to equal footing, disregarding the accomplishments of the established player base, but you also can't relaunch without some sort of equalizer interwoven in the leveling curve.

The FFXIV team right now has a behemoth of a task ahead of them in attempting to merge this game's relaunch with an environment suited for an influx of new players and the established player base.

There is just simply no way FFXIV will survive if 2.0 does attract a stronger subscription base. Being content with the way things are now and happy with the minuscule community is just being foolish - that's just the reality of the current MMO economy, there has to be more accounts contributing to that monthly revenue stream.


Edited, Feb 13th 2012 10:21am by Whales
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#11 Feb 13 2012 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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Whales wrote:
I'm curious as to how the FFXIV team is going to balance the need for a MMORPG environment in 2.0 that's friendly for new player participation and the already established max-level players alike.



Increase the level cap and introduce level sync from FFXI.
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#12 Feb 13 2012 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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My biggest worry is that in the odd event 2.0 is decided to be a major boomerang success for SE, that the SE money folks will regain control of the project and cut 90% of the staff or something equally silly and kill it once again.
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#13 Feb 13 2012 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Not trying to knock you or anything, but how is Swotor selling 2mil copies in a month and retaining 80% of the subs, failing ?


It was a failure in that it managed to build itself a reputation that it will never recover from. There isn't much of an MMO market out right now, so retaining 80% of subs isn't a big deal at all. There's tons of MMOs set to come out this year, and I would not be surprised if it was slowly lost in the mix.

Quote:
Also to re-iterate the most important fact. 2.0 is not a new game. After jobs they'll have time to do few adjustment patches before the year ends. Then we'll have the areas divided into zones with more landmarks in them. That's the biggest difference.


I would not be surprised if an expansion pack was released @ 2.0 launch, would you? It's the best way to lead into the release of the "new game". Right now there's probably a million FFXIV keys floating around that they didn't get anywhere near the price they wanted for them, what better way to invalidate them? We probably haven't heard any mention about it because it would only anger the existing playerbase.

Edited, Feb 13th 2012 1:42pm by BlynkTheSneak
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#14 Feb 13 2012 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Not to burst anyone's bubble, but FFXIV-2, if I can call it that, has a very tiny chance of being a success. If not for the pride of the Final Fantasy brand being at stake, this title would have long ago been relegated to the slowly dying F2P heap of failed MMOs.

I realize there's actually a good chance that Yoshida and crew could turn this game around into something it should have been from the beginning. The sad thing is, the feelgood capital surrounding FFXIV is mostly spent and I don't know if you can ever get it back.

In the months leading up to FFXIV's release, so very many fan sites emerged, teaming with "I wonder what they're going to do," posts and, "I quit FFXI because it took too much of my time, but I'm totally back for FFXIV." The hopes and dreams of Final Fantasy Online fans were in full force only to be dashed on the rocks of total and epic fail.

So 2 or 3 years later, as the case may be, 2.0 will be ready to make it up to us. But by then we'll have had plenty of time to move on, leaving the bitter disappointment behind. Most people aren't looking to give this game a second chance, they are looking for the next best thing. Plus, the scathing reviews FFXIV got will still haunt this game on the internet no matter how nicely they make up for it, so even if there's still a PS3 newcomer who hasn't heard the news, they soon will.

Really, the one thing that could save this game is ironically the one reason they haven't given up on it: they need to change the name from Final Fantasy XIV. They can keep the name Final Fantasy, they almost have to, but the 14 / XIV part has to go. It's the only way they can distance themselves from the cesspool of failure and really make it seem like this is a complete reboot for the title.
#15 Feb 13 2012 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
Quote:
Not trying to knock you or anything, but how is Swotor selling 2mil copies in a month and retaining 80% of the subs, failing ?


It was a failure in that it managed to build itself a reputation that it will never recover from. There isn't much of an MMO market out right now, so retaining 80% of subs isn't a big deal at all. There's tons of MMOs set to come out this year, and I would not be surprised if it was slowly lost in the mix.

Quote:
Also to re-iterate the most important fact. 2.0 is not a new game. After jobs they'll have time to do few adjustment patches before the year ends. Then we'll have the areas divided into zones with more landmarks in them. That's the biggest difference.


I would not be surprised if an expansion pack was released @ 2.0 launch, would you? It's the best way to lead into the release of the "new game". Right now there's probably a million FFXIV keys floating around that they didn't get anywhere near the price they wanted for them, what better way to invalidate them? We probably haven't heard any mention about it because it would only anger the existing playerbase.

Edited, Feb 13th 2012 1:42pm by BlynkTheSneak


What reputation ? You mean the one where they sold 2 million copies before the game launched, and had 1.5 million people playing before release ? Or the one that out of 2 million units sold, they kept 80% of them ? Also there is not much of an MMO market ? This is not early 2000's when FFXI came out and the only competition was EQ. In 2012 MMO'S is a huge market, we got P2P,F2P( Totally free ones, Cash shop ones, etc etc.)
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#16 Feb 13 2012 at 5:59 PM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
What reputation ? You mean the one where they sold 2 million copies before the game launched, and had 1.5 million people playing before release ? Or the one that out of 2 million units sold, they kept 80% of them ? Also there is not much of an MMO market ? This is not early 2000's when FFXI came out and the only competition was EQ. In 2012 MMO'S is a huge market, we got P2P,F2P( Totally free ones, Cash shop ones, etc etc.)


You need a good reputation to hold onto MMO subscribers. The intial first-week sales has absolutely nothing to do with this, because those are based on review scores and hype. As far as proving to you how bad the reputation is, I just checked out the official SWTOR forum and the majority of active threads are negative, or turn negative after just a single page. The second most popular thread on the front page is even titled "Most Boring MMO Ever".

It doesn't matter how many competitors are in the MMO market. The MMO playerbase is stuck in that 'one king' mindset. They don't want to be a member of an average MMO, they want to be a part of the next big thing, and be the biggest baddest boy on there. The moment a new highly successful and critically-acclaimed MMO comes out, you can bet most of the WoW player-base will hop ship. None of the major MMOs coming out this year wanted to be that small guy. They want to be the king, and SWTOR was a failure in that regard.
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#17 Feb 13 2012 at 7:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
I would not be surprised if an expansion pack was released @ 2.0 launch, would you? It's the best way to lead into the release of the "new game".


I'd love to think that SE is capable of developing both a full-scale expansion and the 2.0 release simultaneously - really, I would - but as it is, I have to stretch all my faith just to maintain the belief that they'll manage to push out a single, moderate patch every 4 months.
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#18 Feb 13 2012 at 8:19 PM Rating: Default
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The way I understood one of those recent interviews was that they have 20% of their team working on content to be released at 2.0 launch. I don't have it in front of me, though so I could easily be misremembering it.
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#19 Feb 13 2012 at 8:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
The way I understood one of those recent interviews was that they have 20% of their team working on content to be released at 2.0 launch. I don't have it in front of me, though so I could easily be misremembering it.


We've seen their definition of content already. If that doesn't give people pause, I don't know what will.
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#20 Feb 14 2012 at 12:04 AM Rating: Default
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I don't believe they would release quality content with such few people paying for it. We're paying for the barebones edition right now, getting only infrastructure patches and the ability to beta test their instances.
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#21 Feb 14 2012 at 12:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
Ostia wrote:
What reputation ? You mean the one where they sold 2 million copies before the game launched, and had 1.5 million people playing before release ? Or the one that out of 2 million units sold, they kept 80% of them ? Also there is not much of an MMO market ? This is not early 2000's when FFXI came out and the only competition was EQ. In 2012 MMO'S is a huge market, we got P2P,F2P( Totally free ones, Cash shop ones, etc etc.)


You need a good reputation to hold onto MMO subscribers. The intial first-week sales has absolutely nothing to do with this, because those are based on review scores and hype. As far as proving to you how bad the reputation is, I just checked out the official SWTOR forum and the majority of active threads are negative, or turn negative after just a single page. The second most popular thread on the front page is even titled "Most Boring MMO Ever".

It doesn't matter how many competitors are in the MMO market. The MMO playerbase is stuck in that 'one king' mindset. They don't want to be a member of an average MMO, they want to be a part of the next big thing, and be the biggest baddest boy on there. The moment a new highly successful and critically-acclaimed MMO comes out, you can bet most of the WoW player-base will hop ship. None of the major MMOs coming out this year wanted to be that small guy. They want to be the king, and SWTOR was a failure in that regard.


Online forum complaining does not necessarily equate to an unsuccessful product. If it did, Call of Duty sales would come to a halt, as would products such as the iPhone. In terms of success, products like these are "top dog" in their class, and they're also a main target of criticism for those who don't happen to be a fan.

In the same way, SWTOR does not need to be free of criticism to be a success. If millions love what it's putting out and continue to buy and subscribe to it, then millions of others who don't will not hinder its success no matter how vocal they are. If everyone did leave and it was left with a miniscule player base, then I could see it becoming a failure, but seeing some forum goers complaining about the supposed new big thing and interpreting it as failure for the game is just extremely premature.
#22 Feb 14 2012 at 1:08 AM Rating: Default
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These are apples and oranges, man. CoD isn't an MMO, nor is the iPhone. People don't blindly purchase those products, they're invited into it by positive experiences they've had with people in real life. With MMOs, the majority comes from internet communities. The amount of people who play that game and never visit social networking, communicate with other players, or browse forums is a minority. You can't box yourself off from the community opinion of the game.

I shouldn't even need to talk about these kinds of things on an FFXIV board. Everyone here should've seen first-hand how the negative attitudes towards an MMO can infect and multiply. This game is needing an entire rebrand just to escape that criticism.
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#23 Feb 14 2012 at 2:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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FFXIV needs a rebrand because it got terrible reviews everywhere and the vast majority of those of us willing to get it anyway didn't feel it was worth playing and left, even when the game was free.

SWTOR isn't even close to FFXIV status. It has 1.7 million active subscribers as of the last article I saw, and of those 1.7 million "most" of them have played past their trial period and were willing to pay a subscription fee to continue playing it.

For any subscription based MMO to succeed, it needs active subscribers, and so far TOR has been growing in that respect. Calling it a failure because of criticism is premature because all evidence points to the game growing rather than declining up to this point. If you predict that TOR will not be able to hold its player base or attract new players, I'm not going to argue with you because your guess is as good as mine. But while so many are actively playing the game and it's continuing to grow, it will hardly be considered a failure. Quite the opposite.
#24 Feb 14 2012 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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My point was that SWTOR failed to bring something new to the genre. The game itself is a success, but it's just the same old story we've seen in the past years... been there done that. And, imo, they failed to accomplish something new with the ressources they had available. Anyway, because something is more popular doesn't always mean that it's better... it's just more popular. It all comes down to opinions at this point. What business model 14 has, nobody knows. How many subs they need to keep going, nobody knows. My guess is that they were probably targeting the FFXi playerbase, both old and new, for this game. While they certainly lost a lot of subs after launch and during last year, it might still be viable at the moment for them but we'll never know.
#25 Feb 14 2012 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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Full Voice over, Choices, companions, story driven mmo. Really you dont need to reinvent the wheel to contribute, that was SE downfall on FFXIV :/
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#26 Feb 14 2012 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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FFXIV isn't rebranding for review scores. They could release an expansion pack right now and give the game an entirely new set of fresh, high review scores. They're rebranding because the game has been a joke in social circles and they will never live down the bad reputation of the game. Review scores matter very little for MMOs, just look at all of the high-rated failures of the past few years.

Quote:
SWTOR isn't even close to FFXIV status. It has 1.7 million active subscribers as of the last article I saw, and of those 1.7 million "most" of them have played past their trial period and were willing to pay a subscription fee to continue playing it.


I would bet that FFXIV would've had a similar rate of retention as SWTOR if they began charging the second month. Not many people are willing to drop $50-60 and not give it a chance.

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 11:59am by BlynkTheSneak
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#27 Feb 14 2012 at 12:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
FFXIV isn't rebranding for review scores. They could release an expansion pack right now and give the game an entirely new set of fresh, high review scores. They're rebranding because the game has been a joke in social circles and they will never live down the bad reputation of the game. Review scores matter very little for MMOs, just look at all of the high-rated failures of the past few years.

Quote:
SWTOR isn't even close to FFXIV status. It has 1.7 million active subscribers as of the last article I saw, and of those 1.7 million "most" of them have played past their trial period and were willing to pay a subscription fee to continue playing it.


I would bet that FFXIV would've had a similar rate of retention as SWTOR if they began charging the second month. Not many people are willing to drop $50-60 and not give it a chance.

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 11:59am by BlynkTheSneak



You are out of your fool mind if you actually believe that. I'm not sure where you are on this planet, but I'm **** sure you can hear my laughter from there.
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#28 Feb 14 2012 at 12:28 PM Rating: Default
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I think you can be amazed the things that buyers remorse can do to people. Even if people are having a terrible time doing something, they are often willing to pay a small fee to extend that terrible time so it seems like they've effectively halved the amount of money they wasted. I knew that saying that would get a terrible response, but it had to be said.

Half of a million people don't pay $50 and give up after five minutes. That is unrealistic. I don't know if you can remember, but for the first month of XIV, there was tons of "let's wait a bit and see if they can fix this". The greatest offense at the time was the terrible UI and lag, which many people thought were easily fixable issues. Nobody cared about the lack of end-game content because no one had reached it yet, identical to what is going on with TOR. People want to believe that they've made good purchases. I've been removed a lot from this community so that popular opinion is still fresh in my head, but I can see how you could've forgotten that if you've spent more time here than I have.

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 1:45pm by BlynkTheSneak
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#29 Feb 14 2012 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
I think you can be amazed the things that buyers remorse can do to people. Even if people are having a terrible time doing something, they are often willing to pay a small fee to extend that terrible time so it seems like they've effectively halved the amount of money they wasted. I knew that saying that would get a terrible response, but it had to be said.

Half of a million people don't pay $50 and give up after five minutes. That is unrealistic. I don't know if you can remember, but for the first month of XIV, there was tons of "let's wait a bit and see if they can fix this". The greatest offense at the time was the terrible UI and lag, which many people thought were easily fixable issues. Nobody cared about the lack of end-game content because no one had reached it yet, identical to what is going on with TOR. People want to believe that they've made good purchases. I've been removed a lot from this community so that popular opinion is still fresh in my head, but I can see how you could've forgotten that if you've spent more time here than I have.

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 1:45pm by BlynkTheSneak


Most people (for some reason...Stockholm Syndrome?) also thought they had a miracle patch to fix everything from the release client. When that never happened, most people decided that paying for other games was more fun than playing this one for free.
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#30 Feb 14 2012 at 12:50 PM Rating: Default
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That's true, I'm just pointing out how little the first month retention means. Very few people are willing to give up on something they've made a financial investment in, that usually kicks in after the first month or two.
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#31 Feb 14 2012 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
FFXIV isn't rebranding for review scores. They could release an expansion pack right now and give the game an entirely new set of fresh, high review scores. They're rebranding because the game has been a joke in social circles and they will never live down the bad reputation of the game. Review scores matter very little for MMOs, just look at all of the high-rated failures of the past few years.

Quote:
SWTOR isn't even close to FFXIV status. It has 1.7 million active subscribers as of the last article I saw, and of those 1.7 million "most" of them have played past their trial period and were willing to pay a subscription fee to continue playing it.


I would bet that FFXIV would've had a similar rate of retention as SWTOR if they began charging the second month. Not many people are willing to drop $50-60 and not give it a chance.

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 11:59am by BlynkTheSneak


Seriously in what reality do you live ? The very fact that they dint charge ANY month was because the retention rate was garbage, 90% of the people who bought the game left before the free trial was over :/ There is a graph i think in the population topic that shows, that 2-3 months after the release of the game, only near 50k players where even logging in, thats 50k out of 860k buyers.

There is no IF!! IT HAPPENED! IT IS A FACT! IT CANNOT BE CHANGED!
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#32 Feb 14 2012 at 1:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
FFXIV isn't rebranding for review scores. They could release an expansion pack right now and give the game an entirely new set of fresh, high review scores. They're rebranding because the game has been a joke in social circles and they will never live down the bad reputation of the game. Review scores matter very little for MMOs, just look at all of the high-rated failures of the past few years.

Quote:
SWTOR isn't even close to FFXIV status. It has 1.7 million active subscribers as of the last article I saw, and of those 1.7 million "most" of them have played past their trial period and were willing to pay a subscription fee to continue playing it.


I would bet that FFXIV would've had a similar rate of retention as SWTOR if they began charging the second month. Not many people are willing to drop $50-60 and not give it a chance.


You don't think that one of the biggest franchises in video game history receiving average (not low, but average) score of 49% had an effect on people who otherwise may have been interested? To gain a lot of subscribers, games need high sales and a strong percentage of the people buying sticking around. FF14 looked bad based on early reviews, which may have hindered its initial sales. What didn't help was the fact that most people playing did not feel it was worth it to keep playing. A game that looks bad will not sell, and a game that is bad will not keep the players it does manage to initially attract. SWTOR so far, has already had extremely impressive sales. What it needs now, is to retain a good chunk of those players, which so far it has done. If it keeps 50% of them, it will be a decent success. Even if it kept 25% of them, it'd have a moderate fan base along the lines of FFXI. Only if it lost 95% of its player base and had nothing going for it would it need to rebrand or just shut down.

As for FF14 retaining as many players as SWTOR if it were to charge, I don't know where you got that idea because I don't think it retained that many players when it didn't. I played the first few months and the number of people online was dwindling quite a bit, IIRC they removed the feature to see the amount of people online early on. I had huge linkshell lists with nobody on them because most had already stopped playing. I have no factual data to show exactly how many people stuck around in the early months of FFXIV (I don't think anyone does) but all signs point to it not being very good.
#33 Feb 14 2012 at 1:15 PM Rating: Default
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I think you're misunderstanding the difference between first month retention and beyond. If you think that I believe that FFXIV would maintain their sold software units as full subscription customers than I think you are a crazy person.

Quote:
If it keeps 50% of them, it will be a decent success. Even if it kept 25% of them, it'd have a moderate fan base along the lines of FFXI. Only if it lost 95% of its player base and had nothing going for it would it need to rebrand or just shut down.


Do you realize how massive of a budget SWTOR has? You can't just compare it to any other MMO. It has to be successful for itself, not in comparison to their competitors subscription numbers. TOR was an expensive game, it can't lose 75% of it's subscription base. It doesn't matter that it would be the 3rd or 4th most popular MMO in the USA, it has to be profitable. Right now it's doing ok, but there are tons of MMOs coming out this year. I don't believe that it has created a reputation that will survive the 2012 MMO apocalypse.

edit: it's not doing great, it's borderline ok.

Quote:
90% of the people who bought the game left before the free trial was over :/


2 years later?

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 2:26pm by BlynkTheSneak
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#34 Feb 14 2012 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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Well no, even i know that no game retains 100% of initial consumers, not even WOW. I just think you are very optimistic, they lost 90% of their player base within a 1-2 month period, and they never got an increase over the entire year and some months they have been updating, sure some new blood might have gone into the game, but to little to late to make a real difference, add that they started charging again, and they again lost players to that equation, frankly the game is in really bad shape.

As far as 2.0 is concerned, in order to succeed they need to do everything every other MMO is doing and then add their own twist to it, their own FF flavor, they need to get people that actually know how to make a modern MMO, they need to stop trying to revive the MMO of old, it does not sells Period.
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#35 Feb 14 2012 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
Quote:
90% of the people who bought the game left before the free trial was over :/


2 years later?


Smiley: lol
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#36 Feb 14 2012 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
I think you're misunderstanding the difference between first month retention and beyond. If you think that I believe that FFXIV would maintain their sold software units as full subscription customers than I think you are a crazy person.

Quote:
If it keeps 50% of them, it will be a decent success. Even if it kept 25% of them, it'd have a moderate fan base along the lines of FFXI. Only if it lost 95% of its player base and had nothing going for it would it need to rebrand or just shut down.


Do you realize how massive of a budget SWTOR has? You can't just compare it to any other MMO. It has to be successful for itself, not in comparison to their competitors subscription numbers. TOR was an expensive game, it can't lose 75% of it's subscription base. It doesn't matter that it would be the 3rd or 4th most popular MMO in the USA, it has to be profitable. Right now it's doing ok, but there are tons of MMOs coming out this year. I don't believe that it has created a reputation that will survive the 2012 MMO apocalypse.

edit: it's not doing great, it's borderline ok.

Quote:
90% of the people who bought the game left before the free trial was over :/


2 years later?

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 2:26pm by BlynkTheSneak



The budget for Swotor was 150 million dollars :/ And they only need 500K active players to recuperate their investment on the long run, as stated by bioware, their box sales net them 120 million alone :/ and they have retained 1.7 million subscribers, at $14.99 that's an income of about 25.4 million dollars a month, so yeah right of the bat, Swotor is paid for almost fully, just from their initial sales and one month of subscription, do yes, right after the first month, they can actually lose 75% of their subscribers they would still have 425K wish would net them about 6.3 million a month, so yeah they can lose 75% and still turn a profit at this point in time.

And as for the 2 years later ? i was referring at release, 2 years later this game is dead, 15-20k subs is not a player base for a successful MMO.
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#37 Feb 14 2012 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
[quote=BlynkTheSneak]
And as for the 2 years later ? i was referring at release, 2 years later this game is dead, 15-20k subs is not a player base for a successful MMO.

It's not dead, it's just sleeping... Dreaming of better days to come (or having nightmares of what it was... either way).
#38 Feb 14 2012 at 3:34 PM Rating: Default
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That math sucks hard. First, the budget I've seen recently is $200 million, quite a bit bigger. Also, remember that box sales don't bring in profit at face value, so don't just take the two million sales figure and multiply it by $60. They have to pay retailers, shipping, production for all unsold units. It's a lot less than that, probably closer to $80 million. I wouldn't be surprised if it was less.

Quote:
At 500,000 subscribers, we’d break even. At a million, we’d be making a profit but nothing worth writing home about. As it scales up from there, we’re talking about a nice profit.


They write themselves off as a failure for anything below 1000k active subscribers, and at a loss for anything below 500k. So no, they can't lose 75% and still turn a nice profit.

It's harder to make money running an MMO than you think. Even though we're (probably) paying for XIV right now, they are still losing money off letting us play.
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#39 Feb 14 2012 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
That math sucks hard. First, the budget I've seen recently is $200 million, quite a bit bigger. Also, remember that box sales don't bring in profit at face value, so don't just take the two million sales figure and multiply it by $60. They have to pay retailers, shipping, production for all unsold units. It's a lot less than that, probably closer to $80 million. I wouldn't be surprised if it was less.

Quote:
At 500,000 subscribers, we’d break even. At a million, we’d be making a profit but nothing worth writing home about. As it scales up from there, we’re talking about a nice profit.


They write themselves off as a failure for anything below 1000k active subscribers, and at a loss for anything below 500k. So no, they can't lose 75% and still turn a nice profit.

It's harder to make money running an MMO than you think. Even though we're (probably) paying for XIV right now, they are still losing money off letting us play.


I'm not paying for that mess until I see something done well with enough interesting content to justify me paying. That time may never come, but I hope it does.
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#40 Feb 14 2012 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
That math sucks hard. First, the budget I've seen recently is $200 million, quite a bit bigger. Also, remember that box sales don't bring in profit at face value, so don't just take the two million sales figure and multiply it by $60. They have to pay retailers, shipping, production for all unsold units. It's a lot less than that, probably closer to $80 million. I wouldn't be surprised if it was less.

Quote:
At 500,000 subscribers, we’d break even. At a million, we’d be making a profit but nothing worth writing home about. As it scales up from there, we’re talking about a nice profit.


They write themselves off as a failure for anything below 1000k active subscribers, and at a loss for anything below 500k. So no, they can't lose 75% and still turn a nice profit.

It's harder to make money running an MMO than you think. Even though we're (probably) paying for XIV right now, they are still losing money off letting us play.


The last report that was made, was on an estimate around 150 million, WOW cost was around 100 million, i seriously doubt that Swotor development cost was upwards of 200 million, again i'm not saying is not possible, but there are 3 numbers floating around, EA said $80mil was spent, and speculation and rumors say between 150-200mil where spent, as said here: http://www.gamespot.com/news/star-wars-the-old-republic-cost-200-million-to-develop-6348959 It confirms what i just said, they only need 500K subs to survive and go in the green, again no real confirmation from EA or BIO on how much it was spent making the game, but i would say between 100-175mil tops.
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#41 Feb 14 2012 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
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We aren't even talking about anything useful anymore. One minute you're telling me they can profit at 425k subscribers, the next you're telling me that 500k is the breakeven point. You aren't even reading what I say, because the article you just linked was mentioned in my last post.

I get it. You like SWTOR. There is no need to convince me that it's the next best thing. I'm going to stick with my belief that it's failing, because it is, and it gives me hope that maybe XIV will be the stand-out MMO this year.
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#42 Feb 14 2012 at 5:21 PM Rating: Default
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Not worth aguing with someone throwing random numbers around just to prove his point. He's talking like he know the whole marketing and development process of an MMO like he had 20 years experience into it. It's easy to see when someone is out of his element but still want to prove his point.
#43 Feb 15 2012 at 12:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
I think you're misunderstanding the difference between first month retention and beyond. If you think that I believe that FFXIV would maintain their sold software units as full subscription customers than I think you are a crazy person.


I understand quite well. SWTOR has retained 80-85% of its player base so far according to the articles that I've seen. I am saying that it isn't very likely that FFXIV retained that many players in its first few months even when the game was free, so thinking that they'd retain the same amount if they charged is even more unlikely. I think SE would agree with me too, considering they didn't start charging for over a year. If they thought people were willing to pay for their game in its launch state, they probably would have happily let them.

Quote:
Do you realize how massive of a budget SWTOR has? You can't just compare it to any other MMO. It has to be successful for itself, not in comparison to their competitors subscription numbers. TOR was an expensive game, it can't lose 75% of it's subscription base. It doesn't matter that it would be the 3rd or 4th most popular MMO in the USA, it has to be profitable. Right now it's doing ok, but there are tons of MMOs coming out this year. I don't believe that it has created a reputation that will survive the 2012 MMO apocalypse.

edit: it's not doing great, it's borderline ok.


So selling two million copies during the first three months and having 1.7 million active subscribers as of around the beginning of this month is "borderline ok." SWTOR has been called the fastest growing subscription MMO in history, and so far I haven't seen anyone dispute that. With that considered, if SWTOR's current success does not impress you, then point me in the direction of what numbers for a successful MMO in its first two months looks like. Show me some games that have performed better than "borderline ok" in their first two months.

EDIT: I'm also a little confused about this "MMO Apocalypse" that's occurring in 2012. Which games coming out have that much hype and mass appeal that they'd have people flocking to them. The Secret World? TERA? I can think of one that has an incredible amount of hype and is looking flat out amazing, but it's also a very different style of game and it won't carry a subscription fee. If anything, I could see it dealing a blow to subscription based games in general rather than dealing a direct blow to just one.

Edited, Feb 15th 2012 3:21am by Susanoh
#44 Feb 15 2012 at 1:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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^^ None! EA CEO can call a press conference tomorrow and declare Swotor has been paid off in just 2 months, and he will tell you "Had SE charged FFXIV would have been paid for in the same time if not less"

It's ridiculous to even think, that had SE charged, they could have had the same retention success bioware had with Swotor, the game was FREE for over a year, and it has had no success, and now that they recently started charging, just look at the main forums, a ghost town of what it used to be, just the same 20-40 people posting up and glorifying yoshi-p the savior of MMOS lol
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#45 Feb 15 2012 at 8:18 AM Rating: Default
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Susanoh wrote:
So selling two million copies during the first three months and having 1.7 million active subscribers as of around the beginning of this month is "borderline ok." SWTOR has been called the fastest growing subscription MMO in history, and so far I haven't seen anyone dispute that. With that considered, if SWTOR's current success does not impress you, then point me in the direction of what numbers for a successful MMO in its first two months looks like. Show me some games that have performed better than "borderline ok" in their first two months.


I'm sorry, but you can't predict success with your initial sales. It just doesn't work like that, and that is what you don't understand. There are many games that have very good selling weeks and then lose the majority of their subscribers. Look at Age of Conan, a critical success, sold near a million copies, and became a ghost town within 6 months.

It would've impressed me if they hadn't lost so many of their subscribers in the first month.


Quote:

EDIT: I'm also a little confused about this "MMO Apocalypse" that's occurring in 2012. Which games coming out have that much hype and mass appeal that they'd have people flocking to them. The Secret World? TERA? I can think of one that has an incredible amount of hype and is looking flat out amazing, but it's also a very different style of game and it won't carry a subscription fee. If anything, I could see it dealing a blow to subscription based games in general rather than dealing a direct blow to just one.


FFXIV 2.0
TERA
Dragon Quest X
Guild Wars 2
Phantasy Star Online 2
DUST 514

all AAA titles and all set to be hyped to ****. It's a big year for MMOs. I wouldn't be surprised if Titan started making the rounds soon, and was set for an early '13.

Quote:
^^ None! EA CEO can call a press conference tomorrow and declare Swotor has been paid off in just 2 months, and he will tell you "Had SE charged FFXIV would have been paid for in the same time if not less"

It's ridiculous to even think, that had SE charged, they could have had the same retention success bioware had with Swotor, the game was FREE for over a year, and it has had no success, and now that they recently started charging, just look at the main forums, a ghost town of what it used to be, just the same 20-40 people posting up and glorifying yoshi-p the savior of MMOS lol


Every time you talk it's just absolutely ridiculous. I'm speaking about a hypothetical world in which this game was never "FREE for over a year", do you understand that yet?

Edited, Feb 15th 2012 9:20am by BlynkTheSneak
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#46 Feb 15 2012 at 12:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Swotor seems to become the new rift or AoC from what I can tell, but yeah there isnt a whole lot of amazing MMOs coming out this year, a select few of the ones coming out does look intressting like Secret World because its not doing the standard "WoW mold"(swotor as a mmo is standard WoW type, but has a singleplayer storymode attached to it).

And GW2 will probably be just a niche mmo just like XI became, XIVs reputation is still very much tarnished from a disastrous launch.
I'm having hopes that 2.0 becames something great but I would be surprised if it could even come close to the playerbase XI had at its peak.
Tera, secret world and xiv 2.0 all have something more unique for a mmo and isnt a carbon copy wow with a new setting so thoose three games I will keep my eyes on.
Thoose are wild cards for having a chance to being good mmorpgs, but i have yet to see something that any could aspire to be the next huge mmo.

On topic, FF13-2 seems to be liked even by thoose who hated 13, if I still had a ps3 I'd pick it up myself cause it looks pretty good (and I hated 13).
But yeah as a developer SE is far past their glory days, that doesnt mean theyre releasing pure crap, they still show they can release good games if they want, but I no longer expect their games to be the next jrpg masterpiece.
Ten or more years ago when SE released a new FF title I'd pick it up asap it hit the shelves, nowadays I wait a few weeks and judge if I want it by viewing lets plays and reading reviews.

Sorry for poor english/spelling.
#47 Feb 15 2012 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
Susanoh wrote:
So selling two million copies during the first three months and having 1.7 million active subscribers as of around the beginning of this month is "borderline ok." SWTOR has been called the fastest growing subscription MMO in history, and so far I haven't seen anyone dispute that. With that considered, if SWTOR's current success does not impress you, then point me in the direction of what numbers for a successful MMO in its first two months looks like. Show me some games that have performed better than "borderline ok" in their first two months.


I'm sorry, but you can't predict success with your initial sales. It just doesn't work like that, and that is what you don't understand. There are many games that have very good selling weeks and then lose the majority of their subscribers. Look at Age of Conan, a critical success, sold near a million copies, and became a ghost town within 6 months.

It would've impressed me if they hadn't lost so many of their subscribers in the first month.


Quote:

EDIT: I'm also a little confused about this "MMO Apocalypse" that's occurring in 2012. Which games coming out have that much hype and mass appeal that they'd have people flocking to them. The Secret World? TERA? I can think of one that has an incredible amount of hype and is looking flat out amazing, but it's also a very different style of game and it won't carry a subscription fee. If anything, I could see it dealing a blow to subscription based games in general rather than dealing a direct blow to just one.


FFXIV 2.0
TERA
Dragon Quest X
Guild Wars 2
Phantasy Star Online 2
DUST 514

all AAA titles and all set to be hyped to ****. It's a big year for MMOs. I wouldn't be surprised if Titan started making the rounds soon, and was set for an early '13.

Quote:
^^ None! EA CEO can call a press conference tomorrow and declare Swotor has been paid off in just 2 months, and he will tell you "Had SE charged FFXIV would have been paid for in the same time if not less"

It's ridiculous to even think, that had SE charged, they could have had the same retention success bioware had with Swotor, the game was FREE for over a year, and it has had no success, and now that they recently started charging, just look at the main forums, a ghost town of what it used to be, just the same 20-40 people posting up and glorifying yoshi-p the savior of MMOS lol


Every time you talk it's just absolutely ridiculous. I'm speaking about a hypothetical world in which this game was never "FREE for over a year", do you understand that yet?

Edited, Feb 15th 2012 9:20am by BlynkTheSneak


Ok let's try this one last time <.< You say that FFXIV could have had the SAME retention rate that swotor had, wish is 1.7mil subscribers, now FFXIV only shipped 860k units(Dunno if they sold them all) so lets say that they only had to retain 600k subs to be on the same page as swotor. Now here is where our problem starts, because one has been free for an entire year, and the other one has not, also one lost 95% of its subscriptions in the first 3 months and the other one has held 85-90% of it's in 1-2 months, so how hypothetically would the table's turn ? here is my question, how one game that is charge to play get's to maintain it's subs, and one that was free for over a year, had people not touch it with stick, yet would end up with the same success rate than the first.

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#48 Feb 15 2012 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
I'm sorry, but you can't predict success with your initial sales. It just doesn't work like that, and that is what you don't understand. There are many games that have very good selling weeks and then lose the majority of their subscribers. Look at Age of Conan, a critical success, sold near a million copies, and became a ghost town within 6 months.

It would've impressed me if they hadn't lost so many of their subscribers in the first month.


I am not denying that SWTOR could possibly lose a large chunk of its subscribers. What I am saying is that its first two months it has sold incredibly well and has gained more subscribers in those two months than any subscription MMO before it (not 100% sure about this, someone can correct me if I am wrong). While a successful launch does not guarantee long term success, it is a far better sign of things to come than an unsuccessful one.

Players who are on free trial and have not entered their credit card info, players who are playing with game cards, and players who bought the game and have not started it yet contribute to the number of people who bought the game and are not counted as active subscribers. Even so, 1.7 million who bought the game and felt it was worth entering their credit card info and becoming an active subscriber is a good sign. As I've said, a game needs strong sales and a strong percentage of people who keep playing to keep a high number of subscribers. This is undeniable, and so far it has been doing well. Edit: To elaborate on this point, if 50% of the people who try SWTOR like it enough to keep playing, then the game will have over one million subscribers. If it only sold 500k and the same percentage of people stick with the game, then it only has 250k subscribers. To deny the effect strong sales can have on a game would be foolish. Sure, it would be possible for a game to sell 2 million and turn out to be the next FFXIV, where 95% of its player base decides it isn't worth playing and leaves. Then again, it could also become one of the most popular MMOs in the world. That is the position SWTOR is in right now. It sold a lot, it has a lot of players playing. It has the potential to be a long term success because it had a successful launch and well over a million people are playing the game right now.

I'm honestly puzzled as to how you can view this game's launch as unimpressive, when it eclipses what many other games have been able to do in its first two months. I want to know an example of a game with an above average launch in your eyes, and then I want to see an example of a great one.

Edited, Feb 15th 2012 3:37pm by Susanoh
#49 Feb 15 2012 at 3:02 PM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
Ok let's try this one last time <.< You say that FFXIV could have had the SAME retention rate that swotor had, wish is 1.7mil subscribers, now FFXIV only shipped 860k units(Dunno if they sold them all) so lets say that they only had to retain 600k subs to be on the same page as swotor. Now here is where our problem starts, because one has been free for an entire year, and the other one has not, also one lost 95% of its subscriptions in the first 3 months and the other one has held 85-90% of it's in 1-2 months, so how hypothetically would the table's turn ? here is my question, how one game that is charge to play get's to maintain it's subs, and one that was free for over a year, had people not touch it with stick, yet would end up with the same success rate than the first.


The moment I said that, I was speaking entirely as-if they had charged the second month, instead of continuing the free trial for 2 years. That's how bad XIV was, and that's how bad SWTOR is. It wasn't a very big point that I was making, and it wasn't based on any evidence. It was just to tell you my impression of the differences between community attitudes of the games near release. both of which I was very active. I made a small JPG just to sum up how I feel (based upon the community response) about it.


Quote:
Players who are on free trial and have not entered their credit card info, players who are playing with game cards, and players who bought the game and have not started it yet contribute to the number of people who bought the game and are not counted as active subscribers.


This isn't true at all. The people who haven't left their free trial /are/ included in those numbers, which is why I believe it's so bad. You have to project how many of those people still in their free trials are going to leave, and then add in how many people are going to leave because they're upset at the lack of end-game content (which is a lot apparently), and THEN subtract the amount of people who are set to leave this game when the next MMO comes out. There's a lot of people fixing on leaving, and a terrible community attitude towards the game that will slow the amount of new subscribers. It's a bad position to be in, despite EA's constant damage control to act like this has never happened.
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#50 Feb 15 2012 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
This isn't true at all. The people who haven't left their free trial /are/ included in those numbers, which is why I believe it's so bad. You have to project how many of those people still in their free trials are going to leave, and then add in how many people are going to leave because they're upset at the lack of end-game content (which is a lot apparently), and THEN subtract the amount of people who are set to leave this game when the next MMO comes out. There's a lot of people fixing on leaving, and a terrible community attitude towards the game that will slow the amount of new subscribers. It's a bad position to be in, despite EA's constant damage control to act like this has never happened.


http://www.vg247.com/2012/02/01/ea-q3-swtor-moves-2-million-units/

Quote:
EA announced it sold 2 million units of Bioware’s MMO Star Wars: The Old Republic, which currently has 1.7 million daily active subscribers, making it the “fastest growing subscription MMO in history,” according to the firm.

EA CEO John Riccitiello noted during the call to investors that 40% of sales for the MMO were through the firm’s Origin service.

EA said the discrepancy between the 2 million units sold of SWTOR and the 1.7 active subscribers was due to factors such as purchasers who haven’t played the game yet; players who have opted out; those who are playing the MMO on purchased game cards; or are still on the 30-day trial.
#51 Feb 15 2012 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
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124 posts
Terrible source. Check your facts.

Here's a quote straight from EA, at their very recent financial meeting. These are official.

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/1670728299x0x539144/d895626f-e715-4f00-bd50-31bf095027fd/Q3_Script_-_20_2112_1251pm.pdf

Quote:
Q: Are these 1.7 subscribers paying?
A: Active subscribers means anyone paying or in their trial period. Most of those 1.7m are paying at this point


Nice try, though.
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