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A few thoughts regarding 2.0 and beyondFollow

#152 Feb 21 2012 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:
Rift had a good start, but their premise was a risky one. They set out to steal WoW players, and for a time, they did. But getting WoW players is one thing, keeping them is another. It's foolish to think you can steal WoW players and not consider Blizzard would try to steal them back.
It was more a matter of timing as well as the design directions of both games. Rift came about after cata launched. Cata didn't do well post launch after people found out that the steady and what some called reasonable progression was gone in favor of making everything "harder". Rift's major mistake was waiting until after the game launched to start balancing classes. There were buffs, nerfs, an era where pyromancers were the kings of PvP and so on. The nerfs alone were enough to drive some away, and PvP imbalances most likely fit the other half of that equation.

As for MoP, I like it and so does anyone who has been around since vanilla WoW making threads asking blizzard to implement them. Still, the expansion so far has been ill received and its not even out yet. Pandaren and the re-revamped talent systems are to blame.
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#153 Feb 21 2012 at 12:20 PM Rating: Default
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They been more ill received mostly by casual crowds ironically, the crowd that had/has no idea about the lore of WOW etc etc. Also people from other mmo's community's really hate it too, any mention of wow gets a "LOL Kung-Fu Panda, wow has to copy kun-fu panda"..... Wish is dumb, since pandaren predates kung-fu panda <.<

Oh and the revamped talent system is good in my opinion, it gets rid of all those useless talents we had
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#154 Feb 21 2012 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Xoie wrote:
I'm sure you're just doing what you think is right. But the bottom line is, there's one extremely powerful reason why I think you're wrong that FFXIV is so awesome:

They are merging the servers.


Unfortunately it is very very hard to find any MMO that has not merged server. Finest example from 2011 would be Rift, one that people (including Trion) called successful, 2nd biggest MMO in the West, one that had gone through server merge twice reducing their capability to 1/3 of their launch. By no means they had failed launch, mind you.


Rift had a good start, but their premise was a risky one. They set out to steal WoW players, and for a time, they did. But getting WoW players is one thing, keeping them is another. It's foolish to think you can steal WoW players and not consider Blizzard would try to steal them back.


The point is, in the past years it's extremely hard to find any MMO that is adding servers instead of merging. Merging servers have somewhat become an industry standard nowadays.
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#155 Feb 21 2012 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
Xoie wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Xoie wrote:
I'm sure you're just doing what you think is right. But the bottom line is, there's one extremely powerful reason why I think you're wrong that FFXIV is so awesome:

They are merging the servers.


Unfortunately it is very very hard to find any MMO that has not merged server. Finest example from 2011 would be Rift, one that people (including Trion) called successful, 2nd biggest MMO in the West, one that had gone through server merge twice reducing their capability to 1/3 of their launch. By no means they had failed launch, mind you.


Rift had a good start, but their premise was a risky one. They set out to steal WoW players, and for a time, they did. But getting WoW players is one thing, keeping them is another. It's foolish to think you can steal WoW players and not consider Blizzard would try to steal them back.


The point is, in the past years it's extremely hard to find any MMO that is adding servers instead of merging. Merging servers have somewhat become an industry standard nowadays.


Well, it's one thing for a game that once had a million people to merge servers as a cost saving measure for when they are down to hundreds of thousands as it got older.

FFXIV has a few tens of thousands of players, and they are merging after they started billing just last month. This news is a lot more stark.
#156 Feb 21 2012 at 9:35 PM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:
That said, you shouldn't blame people who want to talk about the "fail launch."


Even if said launch happened over 18 months ago? Doesn't there come a point when you stop whining about something everyone already knows and start talking about what's going on currently. Admittedly launch was awful and people had every right to be upset but it's really not the same game anymore, it's much improved, and at some point you have to let go of sour grapes and live in the present.

Xoie wrote:
If people ward others from joining now, it's probably possibly for the best. You'll just tell everyone to play now, which means there needs to be some sanity check to say, "Maybe 2.0 would be more to your liking. Have some patience." If people start too soon, they may be too disappointed to ever come back again (server merge, remember?).


I'm not going to disagree with you here because there is definitely some validity in what you say, but I think you have some misconceptions about my actual stance. I'm not a white knight. I didn't play at launch. I am a NEW PLAYER who is experiencing the game for the first time (last 6 weeks+) with no prior bias for or against the game. My brother played it at launch, I know how bad it was through him. But I don't have any of the resentment with SE so I can evaluate the game with less bias than some of the people who post here.

My main issue is people who are commenting on the CURRENT STATE OF THE GAME when they haven't played it in over six months. How can you possibly give feedback on something when you don't have experience with it. People aren't coming on the forums asking things like "How was the game at launch," or "How was the game last September," they are asking things like "How is the game right now, is it any fun?" And since I play right now I feel like I might be slightly more qualified to answer that question than some of the others who haven't played in quite some time.

If you can't see the logic in that, I'm really not sure what to tell you...
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#157 Feb 21 2012 at 9:56 PM Rating: Default
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ChaChaJaJa wrote:
Even if said launch happened over 18 months ago? Doesn't there come a point when you stop whining about something everyone already knows and start talking about what's going on currently. Admittedly launch was awful and people had every right to be upset but it's really not the same game anymore, it's much improved, and at some point you have to let go of sour grapes and live in the present.


Some people I've seen in these forums actually project their negative opinions onto the general public, and believe that everyone in the gaming world is too hurt to ever come back. This game came and went for the majority, no hard feelings.
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#158 Feb 21 2012 at 9:57 PM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Xoie wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Xoie wrote:
I'm sure you're just doing what you think is right. But the bottom line is, there's one extremely powerful reason why I think you're wrong that FFXIV is so awesome:

They are merging the servers.


Unfortunately it is very very hard to find any MMO that has not merged server. Finest example from 2011 would be Rift, one that people (including Trion) called successful, 2nd biggest MMO in the West, one that had gone through server merge twice reducing their capability to 1/3 of their launch. By no means they had failed launch, mind you.


Rift had a good start, but their premise was a risky one. They set out to steal WoW players, and for a time, they did. But getting WoW players is one thing, keeping them is another. It's foolish to think you can steal WoW players and not consider Blizzard would try to steal them back.


The point is, in the past years it's extremely hard to find any MMO that is adding servers instead of merging. Merging servers have somewhat become an industry standard nowadays.


Well, it's one thing for a game that once had a million people to merge servers as a cost saving measure for when they are down to hundreds of thousands as it got older.

FFXIV has a few tens of thousands of players, and they are merging after they started billing just last month. This news is a lot more stark.


The amount of people does not really matter, a merge is a merge. WAR had close to a million when they started out, and now they are all but abandoned. FFXI on the other hand, the people here said it never broke over 600k sub and they are decently lively for an even older game. In fact, with a million at launch and a rather severe merge without even a year past is a more appalling sight and heading the route of WAR.
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#159 Feb 21 2012 at 10:35 PM Rating: Good
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I'm ready to project pots and pans at a few posters! >_> teehee. Actually the negative nancies do seems to project sentiments of the gaming community toward this game from what I have witnessed. I have a relative, and two close friends who really don't think this game will make it who tried it and quit at the mass exodus and another who said and I quote him on this "SE screwed the pooch on this game" He played during I think open beta. Then I have two college buddies who said "f@ck this game I'm going back to XI". There is one friend I have who has any hope for XIV coming back. So 6/7 of my friends have left and will NOT dare touch XIV again while 3/6 moved on to other competitive MMO's. Now this is just a personal observation. Idk about the rest of gamers and their sentiments about this game. This has just been my experience.

I am so hoping SE can prove them wrong... Really do.
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#160 Feb 22 2012 at 3:03 AM Rating: Decent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
I have a relative, and two close friends who really don't think this game will make it who tried it and quit at the mass exodus and another who said and I quote him on this "SE screwed the pooch on this game" He played during I think open beta. Then I have two college buddies who said "f@ck this game I'm going back to XI". There is one friend I have who has any hope for XIV coming back. So 6/7 of my friends have left and will NOT dare touch XIV again while 3/6 moved on to other competitive MMO's. Now this is just a personal observation. Idk about the rest of gamers and their sentiments about this game. This has just been my experience.
A friend of mine, his wife and his two brothers made the move to XIV with me. The game's lacking design drove all of them away. Call it spoil from WoW, but he and his wife refuse to return unless the leveling model changes to something other than repeating certain activities over and over. Shame too because he and one of his brothers love how XIV handled crafting. Including my own, that's five cancelled accounts.

As for me, while I look at the game, the sole reason why I haven't written off XIV is because I've yet to see how the hybrid jobs are going to be treated. Jobs as a whole, gear progression for them and actual gameplay (Dark Knight abd Red Mage design being in the front of my mind) are my main worries, and in the end that'll decide whether I stay or go.

Ostia wrote:
They been more ill received mostly by casual crowds ironically, the crowd that had/has no idea about the lore of WOW etc etc.
It's more because most people who asked for pandaren in vanilla and TBC no longer play the game for whatever reason. If the announcement had been made back in 2005-2006, reactions would have been very different.
Quote:
Oh and the revamped talent system is good in my opinion, it gets rid of all those useless talents we had
It's good until you realize they just did a talent revamp for this Cataclysm. I'm willing to cut them some slack because outside of zone design and some knick knacks Cataclysm has been pretty much a dud expansion, but not everyone looks at it the way I do.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2012 4:09am by Ruisu
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#161 Feb 22 2012 at 4:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ruisu wrote:
Call it spoil from WoW, but he and his wife refuse to return unless the leveling model changes to something other than repeating certain activities over and over. Shame too because he and one of his brothers love how XIV handled crafting.


That's sort of interesting. I thought crafting was a far bigger offender than DoW and DoM jobs as far as repetition goes.
#162 Feb 22 2012 at 7:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Rui, do between you and me that is 11 accounts gone. Hrm. I wonder about everyone else that has/had friends who played. I am curious.
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#163 Feb 22 2012 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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Susanoh wrote:
Ruisu wrote:
Call it spoil from WoW, but he and his wife refuse to return unless the leveling model changes to something other than repeating certain activities over and over. Shame too because he and one of his brothers love how XIV handled crafting.


That's sort of interesting. I thought crafting was a far bigger offender than DoW and DoM jobs as far as repetition goes.
Well, as I recall, my buddy liked the fact that crafting had its own classes and what materials were involved in doing so (this was pre-simplification and pre-dark matter). What he hated was that if you wanted to level you had to grind leves and behest over and over. Even I can agree that it gets boring after a while. And after seeing how leveling via quests goes, none of us were willing to go back to having to party, then head to a camp then kill the same mob over and over, either.
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#164 Feb 22 2012 at 12:34 PM Rating: Excellent
LillithaFenimore wrote:
Rui, do between you and me that is 11 accounts gone. Hrm. I wonder about everyone else that has/had friends who played. I am curious.


I had about 10 on my friends list who all crossed over from FFXI, and not one has stuck it out. Most of them have even deleted the game and said they'll never bother again. Realistically here, which MMO have you tried, left and thought about 2 years later "Hey, you know, that game was awful, but I'm willing to give it another chance!". It's never happened to me, and I don't think it ever will. I really don't think the optimists realize that generally, you have one chance to make a good first impression. After that, it's game over!
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#165 Feb 22 2012 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:
Rui, do between you and me that is 11 accounts gone. Hrm. I wonder about everyone else that has/had friends who played. I am curious.


I had about 10 on my friends list who all crossed over from FFXI, and not one has stuck it out. Most of them have even deleted the game and said they'll never bother again. Realistically here, which MMO have you tried, left and thought about 2 years later "Hey, you know, that game was awful, but I'm willing to give it another chance!". It's never happened to me, and I don't think it ever will. I really don't think the optimists realize that generally, you have one chance to make a good first impression. After that, it's game over!


That's exactly why failed MMo launches never redeem themeselves.. EVER..

You can be as optimistic as you want about FFXIV.. but the damage is done.. nothing in the universe can bring FFXIV out of the 1000 mile hole that its in..

Age of Conan failed at launch, look at where it's now.. (going f2p)
Warhammer failed at launch, look at where it's now... (going f2p)
Matrix online failed at launch, look at where it's now.. (dead)
Mythos failed in beta, look at where it's now... (bouncing from one publisher to the next)
Vanguard failed at launch, look at where it's now... (dead)

FFXIV arguably had a worser launch than all of those games... The only difference is that FFXIV has a juggernaught that is square enix trying to ressurect it.. You know the game is dead, when even the haters don't care to come here to troll anymore.. last year every FFXIV video had insane amounts of views with thumbs down.. now all new FFXIV videos have virtually no views, and an entire green bar..

This means that no one cares anymore, the only thing 2.0 is going to do is bring in unprecedented amount of trolls back on to this board on zam, just to troll the players that are loyal to the game..
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#166 Feb 22 2012 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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Well for all the negativity i have for this game, the game as a whole, does has a slim chance of making a comeback, but that is up to SE and it's marketing and development teams, if they are able to put up and amazing marketing campaign, they need to use the hit that is going to be Final Fantasy Type 0 and promote this game, when they launch type 0 to USA/EU they should add a code for a 10 day free trial of the game, by the time that happens they should be way ahead in their road map, for consumers to have a pleasant gaming experience, but that can only happen if the development team, starts putting out updates that actually expands and helps the game, so far they have been updating to slow and to little for my taste, so they really should pick up the pace and start introducing quality updates, for once the game goes live and P2P the public will not be so kind as the white knights have been when it comes to worthless updates.
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#167 Feb 22 2012 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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Ruisu wrote:
And after seeing how leveling via quests goes, none of us were willing to go back to having to party, then head to a camp then kill the same mob over and over, either.


Some of us are willing to go back to such systems.

In fact I'm so completely disgusted with leveling via quests that it's turned me away from most modern MMOs. LOTRO, Rift, SW:TOR - all of those I quit long before reaching endgame simply because I couldn't stand the thought of more leveling via quests.
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#168 Feb 22 2012 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:
Rui, do between you and me that is 11 accounts gone. Hrm. I wonder about everyone else that has/had friends who played. I am curious.


I had about 10 on my friends list who all crossed over from FFXI, and not one has stuck it out. Most of them have even deleted the game and said they'll never bother again. Realistically here, which MMO have you tried, left and thought about 2 years later "Hey, you know, that game was awful, but I'm willing to give it another chance!". It's never happened to me, and I don't think it ever will. I really don't think the optimists realize that generally, you have one chance to make a good first impression. After that, it's game over!


So from you, me and Rui, that is a total of 21/22 people who have quit... Anyone else want to share? :/ those numbers make me a sad sad panda :/
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#169 Feb 22 2012 at 1:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Whales then you are the few others seem to be rare/special birds. It seems many people want leveling via storyline or quest. Or to have either option to grind or level via story mode. Seems from what I hear TOR offers that?
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#170 Feb 22 2012 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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nick2412 wrote:
That's exactly why failed MMo launches never redeem themeselves.. EVER..
MMOs don't have a very long history for phrases like this to hold any weight at all.
nick wrote:
You can be as optimistic as you want about FFXIV.. but the damage is done.. nothing in the universe can bring FFXIV out of the 1000 mile hole that its in..
Yes, lots of money definitely can, and they're clearly willing to spend it. It will be harder for the players who've already been hurt to get back into it, but they have a great opportunity to capture the rest who've never witnessed the disappointment first-hand.
nick wrote:
Age of Conan failed at launch, look at where it's now.. (going f2p)
Warhammer failed at launch, look at where it's now... (going f2p)
Matrix online failed at launch, look at where it's now.. (dead)
Mythos failed in beta, look at where it's now... (bouncing from one publisher to the next)
Vanguard failed at launch, look at where it's now... (dead)

FFXIV arguably had a worser launch than all of those games... The only difference is that FFXIV has a juggernaught that is square enix trying to ressurect it.. You know the game is dead, when even the haters don't care to come here to troll anymore.. last year every FFXIV video had insane amounts of views with thumbs down.. now all new FFXIV videos have virtually no views, and an entire green bar..
It's funny how you attempt to downplay such an incredibly significant thing.
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#171 Feb 22 2012 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Whales then you are the few others seem to be rare/special birds. It seems many people want leveling via storyline or quest. Or to have either option to grind or level via story mode. Seems from what I hear TOR offers that?


The story in TOR was indeed a shining star compared to similar MMOs, I admit. But outside of those quest lines the game really didn't offer me anything different than all the other MMOs out there.

My canceling point was when I finished the first story act around level 36 and was shuffled off to the next quest hub (planet) to kill more groups of Mob Type X. I thought "is this it? Just another leveling via quests MMO with a race to endgame so the real gear grind could begin?"

That's just not what I enjoy. I realize others may, and I'm glad for them, but I don't find that type of online gaming environment enjoyable.

I want to experience the journey, not the destination. It's part of what I loved about FFXI. This 'race to endgame with meaningless levels' philosophy is a plague amongst modern MMORPG design.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2012 3:03pm by Whales
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#172 Feb 22 2012 at 1:55 PM Rating: Default
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Blynk you wrote:
Quote:
nick2412 wrote:
That's exactly why failed MMo launches never redeem themeselves.. EVER..
Quote:
MMOs don't have a very long history for phrases like this to hold any weight at all.


Can you elaborate more please?

Edited, Feb 22nd 2012 2:59pm by LillithaFenimore
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#173 Feb 22 2012 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Whales as much as I enjoyed XI, but that is a game where you have to rush to end game as well. :/. So XI suffers from this mentality as well.
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#174 Feb 22 2012 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Whales as much as I enjoyed XI, but that is a game where you have to rush to end game as well. :/. So XI suffers from this mentality as well.


:(

I played from 2003 - 2008 and the highest level I ever had was 65. I never once felt it was a rush to end game.
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#175 Feb 22 2012 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
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Whales then you had a different exp than me.
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#176 Feb 22 2012 at 2:50 PM Rating: Default
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Blynk you wrote:
Quote:
nick2412 wrote:
That's exactly why failed MMo launches never redeem themeselves.. EVER..
Quote:
MMOs don't have a very long history for phrases like this to hold any weight at all.


Can you elaborate more please?


Pointless hyperbole. I don't know what else you want me to say about that, but it should've been obvious what I was talking about. Unless you're doing what you usually do, which is trying to set people up for dumb emotional list wars.

LillithaFenimore wrote:
Whales as much as I enjoyed XI, but that is a game where you have to rush to end game as well. :/. So XI suffers from this mentality as well.


I played at level 60~ for 3 years and had a blast. If you rushed through that game, you were doing it wrong.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2012 3:51pm by BlynkTheSneak
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#177 Feb 22 2012 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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The MMO genre is close to 20 years on the market, how much more time do you need ?

Also the old model of MMOS are not profitable in today's market, most of the people that enjoyed and played during the period where MMOS where a time consuming second job, have grown up, have moved on in life, and have kids, jobs etc etc. There is very little to no market for a MMO where you are required to play your balls off in order to stay competitive like it was in EQ-FFXI.

The biggest complaint between old school vs new school MMO is that, you cant be a unique snow flake, like you could have been back in the day, today's MMOS allow different players with different playstyle to stay competitive againts those that stay online 24/7. Not on the same level, but both camps can enjoy the same content, and old school MMORERS hate that, they want to be the only ones on that ball park, they to some extent want the old template of MMO, where it was more based on time spent online vs Skills.
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#178 Feb 22 2012 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Whales wrote:
Ruisu wrote:
And after seeing how leveling via quests goes, none of us were willing to go back to having to party, then head to a camp then kill the same mob over and over, either.


Some of us are willing to go back to such systems.

In fact I'm so completely disgusted with leveling via quests that it's turned me away from most modern MMOs. LOTRO, Rift, SW:TOR - all of those I quit long before reaching endgame simply because I couldn't stand the thought of more leveling via quests.


There is no difference between a leve and a traditional questing system from WoW.. In terms of content they are exactly the same, except Leves dropped all the quest on to one person.. Now if you were to compare traditional questing to GW2 dynamic events, then yes you can see a tremendously large difference.. Once again FFXIV used leve instead of multiple questing npc's just for the sake of being different

BlynkTheSneak wrote:
nick2412 wrote:
That's exactly why failed MMo launches never redeem themeselves.. EVER..
MMOs don't have a very long history for phrases like this to hold any weight at all.

I am starting to think all you do is troll, FFXI is alive for around a decade.. if your statement hold any weight at all, then you are implying FFXI is not an mmo.

nick wrote:
You can be as optimistic as you want about FFXIV.. but the damage is done.. nothing in the universe can bring FFXIV out of the 1000 mile hole that its in..
Yes, lots of money definitely can, and they're clearly willing to spend it. It will be harder for the players who've already been hurt to get back into it, but they have a great opportunity to capture the rest who've never witnessed the disappointment first-hand.

Not really, the new players will just read the old reviews, and not even bother..

nick wrote:
Age of Conan failed at launch, look at where it's now.. (going f2p)
Warhammer failed at launch, look at where it's now... (going f2p)
Matrix online failed at launch, look at where it's now.. (dead)
Mythos failed in beta, look at where it's now... (bouncing from one publisher to the next)
Vanguard failed at launch, look at where it's now... (dead)

FFXIV arguably had a worser launch than all of those games... The only difference is that FFXIV has a juggernaught that is square enix trying to ressurect it.. You know the game is dead, when even the haters don't care to come here to troll anymore.. last year every FFXIV video had insane amounts of views with thumbs down.. now all new FFXIV videos have virtually no views, and an entire green bar..
It's funny how you attempt to downplay such an incredibly significant thing.


What exactly is your point?


Edited, Feb 22nd 2012 3:55pm by nick2412


BlynkTheSneak wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:
Blynk you wrote:
Quote:
nick2412 wrote:
That's exactly why failed MMo launches never redeem themeselves.. EVER..
Quote:
MMOs don't have a very long history for phrases like this to hold any weight at all.


Can you elaborate more please?


Pointless hyperbole. I don't know what else you want me to say about that, but it should've been obvious what I was talking about. Unless you're doing what you usually do, which is trying to set people up for dumb emotional list wars.

Do you even know what a hyperbole is? Using the thesaurus for online discussion is a terrible idea, better learn about this now before you go up to 4th grade next year.. I heard their writing curriculum is killer.

LillithaFenimore wrote:
Whales as much as I enjoyed XI, but that is a game where you have to rush to end game as well. :/. So XI suffers from this mentality as well.


I played at level 60~ for 3 years and had a blast. If you rushed through that game, you were doing it wrong.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2012 3:51pm by BlynkTheSneak



Edited, Feb 22nd 2012 3:58pm by nick2412
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WoW: we want to give players a more fun time with less grinding and generic quests
GW2: we want the player to feel like they are leveling while doing something fun
Final Fantasy XIV: we want less fun and more grinding
#179 Feb 22 2012 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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nick2412 wrote:
There is no difference between a leve and a traditional questing system from WoW.. In terms of content they are exactly the same, except Leves dropped all the quest on to one person.. Now if you were to compare traditional questing to GW2 dynamic events, then yes you can see a tremendously large difference.. Once again FFXIV used leve instead of multiple questing npc's just for the sake of being different


FFXIV leves were not the system being discussed when I said some of us were willing to go back to certain play styles.
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#180 Feb 22 2012 at 3:22 PM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
The MMO genre is close to 20 years on the market, how much more time do you need ?
nick2412 wrote:
I am starting to think all you do is troll, FFXI is alive for around a decade.. if your statement hold any weight at all, then you are implying FFXI is not an mmo.

I'm starting to think that some people here are about as dumb as I think they are. History doesn't mean a long length of time.

nick2414 wrote:
What exactly is your point?

FFXIV being revived for by Square-Enix is a very big deal.

nick2414 wrote:
Do you even know what a hyperbole is? Using the thesaurus for online discussion is a terrible idea, better learn about this now before you go up to 4th grade next year.. I heard their writing curriculum is killer.

Yes, and I used it correctly. I would advise you, the next time you don't know what a word means, to not look it up in a dictionary and try to twist their definition. This is a very simple word, and the fact that you think it's a big word is disheartening.
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#181 Feb 22 2012 at 4:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ruisu wrote:
Well, as I recall, my buddy liked the fact that crafting had its own classes and what materials were involved in doing so (this was pre-simplification and pre-dark matter). What he hated was that if you wanted to level you had to grind leves and behest over and over. Even I can agree that it gets boring after a while. And after seeing how leveling via quests goes, none of us were willing to go back to having to party, then head to a camp then kill the same mob over and over, either.


Ahh, I gotcha. I actually liked that about crafting too, to be honest. Crafting having its own specific classes with elaborate recipes was one of the higher points of the game for me. It's the leveling process that eventually turned me away. I didn't mind too much that crafting a single item is generally a slow process, or that it takes an incredible number of synths to level up (especially at higher levels), but the two of them combined is a bit much IMO. It'd be akin to saying you need to archive a few thousand web sites, then adding "oh, by the way, you have to do it using a dial-up internet connection." So much potential there, though. I agree that there's some great ideas in FFXIV's crafting system and with some tweaking I'd have probably enjoyed using it.

For what it's worth, I agree with him about DoM/DoW leveling too. Having the primary means of leveling being hacking away at mobs and repeatable guild leves is a bit of a turn off for me these days, unless the combat system is incredibly dynamic and fun.

LillithaFenimore wrote:

So from you, me and Rui, that is a total of 21/22 people who have quit... Anyone else want to share? :/ those numbers make me a sad sad panda :/


I knew five people from FFXI who all joined up to play FFXIV. Of the six of us, not one is actively playing at the moment. I wouldn't put it past any of them to return later on if the game becomes awesome and they catch wind of it, and haven't already begun other games or real life obligations by the time that happens.
#182 Feb 22 2012 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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Blynk, I can't see the hyperbole in nick's statement. Those MMO's did fail. Nick simply gave exames to back up his statement.

And you didn't answer my question in regards to trying to disprove Nicks statement. You said MMO's don't have a long history. I wanted to hear your argument on this to try and prove Nick wrong. So could you please elaborate in your statement so I can understand your side of the argument more clearly. Don't assume your audience can read your mind, we can't. Hence why I asked for an elaboration of your argument.

Ostia, really? MMO's go that far back?
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#183 Feb 22 2012 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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Su, so the count of six degrees of kevin bacon is up to 27/28. Again... Ouch :/
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#184nick2412, Posted: Feb 22 2012 at 6:07 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ok, idiot go learn your vocabulary before coming back to this forum.
#185 Feb 22 2012 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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nick2412 wrote:
[SE] better revive it, unless they rather infuriate every PC gamer that bought FFXIV instead.


Yes, I couldn't even imagine what large numbers of disappointed and infuriated fans of Final Fantasy XIV would look like... >_>
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#186 Feb 22 2012 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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Kane! I know what that looks like! They look like they are either playing Rift, WoW, TOR or FFXI :D. That is what a group of infuriated of gamers looks like! :D
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#187 Feb 22 2012 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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LillithaFenimore wrote:

Ostia, really? MMO's go that far back?


Well commercial MMO'S started late 80-90 so yeah they been around for more than 20 years, they got really popular in the mid-late 90's with Everquest online, so yeah MMO'S go way back, so to say is to early or that the genre has not been out long enough is just silly and stupid :/

And as far as FFXIV being revived, yeah is a big deal for SE, but that's it, nobody else is paying attention, you dont see those 850K people that left, holding their breath, or praying for FFXIV to succeed, most of them, really dont give one damm about the game anymore, or what SE will or could do, and thats just a reality of things, most people dont give a game a second chance, now thats not to say that some people wont, and if Se really does bring their AAA game to the table, and radically change the game for 2.0, they might be able to pull it off, but lets be honest, they wont radically change the game, they will compromise between a hybrid FFXI with standard MMO features with their peculiar annoying twist.
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#188 Feb 22 2012 at 7:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Whales wrote:
Ruisu wrote:
And after seeing how leveling via quests goes, none of us were willing to go back to having to party, then head to a camp then kill the same mob over and over, either.


Some of us are willing to go back to such systems.

In fact I'm so completely disgusted with leveling via quests that it's turned me away from most modern MMOs. LOTRO, Rift, SW:TOR - all of those I quit long before reaching endgame simply because I couldn't stand the thought of more leveling via quests.
I'd be more willing to accept it if I was still 19 years old, having a ton of time to play standing around waiting for invites in between classes and after doing homework. I speak for myself, but my notion of time spent doing things has changed over the years.

Whales wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:
Whales as much as I enjoyed XI, but that is a game where you have to rush to end game as well. :/. So XI suffers from this mentality as well.


I played from 2003 - 2008 and the highest level I ever had was 65. I never once felt it was a rush to end game.
I doubt you forgot about the era where people cared first and foremost about max exp/hour. When not having certain pieces of gear made you "bad" because of how it affected exp/hour, and how you were SOL out of parties and merits if you chose to play the "wrong" job. And the obsession with 200 exp per kill.

Different type of rush.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2012 8:09pm by Ruisu
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#189 Feb 22 2012 at 7:07 PM Rating: Good
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Whales wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:
Whales as much as I enjoyed XI, but that is a game where you have to rush to end game as well. :/. So XI suffers from this mentality as well.


I played from 2003 - 2008 and the highest level I ever had was 65. I never once felt it was a rush to end game.


I have to go with Whales on this one. Much of Zilart, CoP, even parts of ToAU (not all) could be done without reaching level cap and in my book they were not considered 'endgame' content. I never felt there wasn't something for me to do at every level. As a matter of fact I had to prioritize my activities almost everytime I logged in based on the amount of time I thought I would have available.

Ostia wrote:
The MMO genre is close to 20 years on the market, how much more time do you need ?

Also the old model of MMOS are not profitable in today's market, most of the people that enjoyed and played during the period where MMOS where a time consuming second job, have grown up, have moved on in life, and have kids, jobs etc etc. There is very little to no market for a MMO where you are required to play your balls off in order to stay competitive like it was in EQ-FFXI.


You know... Ostia and I don't see eye to eye on many things (at least what I read from his posts) but I certainly don't have time to play like I did when XI first came out. I was in college and had time to spare. Now I'm married with children. I need a quick get in accomplish something and get out.

My dilemma remains I want both the old style gameplay and depth of the commitment I felt for XI without the time commitment.

What I need is an MMO ice cream cake. It takes the best of both worlds ice cream and cake and combines them.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2012 3:42am by kainsilv
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#190 Feb 22 2012 at 7:32 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I come from a server, where if I didn't build the party, we didn't get a party. Period. I always either played a tank or healer. My husband wanted to play DRK, WAR or BLM. War's were easy to get groups for, DRK and BLM even after TOAU, sucked. So party building was dependent on me. And since he and I didn't have days and days to spend farming gil, we had to make do with what gear we could afford.

Also, getting groups to do story content was a pain in my ***. We were apart of a link shell yes, and my husband and I were willing to help others when they needed help. God forbid I wanted to get summons though, I sucked at soloing primals. And trying to get help to do Missions, COP and w/e other stories there were...pfff...People would commit, cancel last minute, forget to show up, and then we were left to shouting in White gate for help. Which could take an hour or so to pull knowledgable people together at the time (this was before SE nerfed everything and made it soloable for HL players). SO to this day, we still have not completed all the stories from the main game and expansions.

And yes it did feel like we were trying to hurry up and rush to HL so we could possibly participate in my friends LS runs for Dyna and such...which we never had a chance to do cause RL cause first and foremost. The only "end game" content I ever had a chance to do was fight Shen, if you want to call that end game. And might I add, when it was my turn to pop, we failed that run on him...so yeah...

Fun times making friends and party grinding to a certian extent, not fun times doing actual content...hence why I dream of content that can be solo and group oriented, pending on the person. Person wants to get a group of people together for awesome group content sure! Better drop rate! Person who has no time wants to solo something, sure! No drop or next to no drop rate on spiffy item. I honestly could care less about gear drops...I just want to play an MMO with my husband for fun and still see the story, while maintaining a balance in my RL while still having the option to one day decide to do group things with others if time permits.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2012 8:35pm by LillithaFenimore
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