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Player Private Residences (2/14/12)Follow

#1 Feb 14 2012 at 6:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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[dev1301] Private Player Residences

* The following changes are scheduled for the 1.21 patch release.
* Features are under development and subject to change or postponement.
With Patch 1.21, players will be able to access inn rooms, private areas for their own use, after completing certain quests.
Inn quests
In each city, players will be able to use an inn room after completing a quest issued by the NPC manning the front desk of the inn. Players must first complete the main quests listed below in order to accept an inn quest.

City Quest
Limsa Lominsa Treasures of the Main
Gridania Souls Gone Wild
Ul'dah Court in the Sands
 
Inn functions
Inns can be used free of charge, and provide the following functions:
Replay event scenes
In the inn, players may access a list of completed quests called the Records of a Journey (provisional name) from which they can replay event scenes as many times as they like. Event scenes can also be skipped.
* When replaying event scenes, player characters are shown with their current equipment, rather than the equipment they were wearing when they first completed the quest.
* Event scenes from inside raid dungeons and non-event scenes will not be viewable from the Records of a Journey (provisional name).

Rested bonus (provisional name)
When player characters enter an inn, they go into “resting mode,” accumulating a rested bonus as time passes. Even after players have logged out, the rested bonus will continue to accumulate up to a maximum limit.

The accumulated bonus is visible on the EXP bar.

When characters have accumulated sufficient rested bonus, they receive a boost to experience points received. The accumulated bonus decreases in proportion to the experience point bonus granted, and when it reaches zero the effect ceases.
* When playing with a level 50 class, the rested bonus does not decrease.
* The bonus does not apply to experience points received as part of quest rewards or for completing levequests.


With the implementation of the rested bonus, Guardian's Aspect will be abolished and the experience points awarded in regional levequests will be adjusted. Players will receive more experience points than they do now when not under the effect of Guardian's Aspect. 

In the current Patch 1.21, the inn rooms are simplified private areas, and players cannot synthesize, repair, or affix material while in them. (Such features are planned for inclusion in FFXIV Version 2.0's housing system.)
* More features, such as login events, are planned for the future.


Edited, Feb 14th 2012 7:24am by kainsilv
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#2 Feb 14 2012 at 6:38 AM Rating: Good
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So the thoughts I have after reading this dev post...

1. Does this mean (City - Quest) you can only use the inn in your starting city? I ask because I chose a Grand Company other than the city I started in.
2. So really, these houses only look cool we can’t use them for anything except to gain rested EXP and watching old cutscenes?
3. They didn’t mention storage of items which is a feature I thought they were adding to these houses.

Note to self: Post on the official forums and find answers.

Summary:
Other than the rested EXP, I personally think we could have waited until 2.0
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#3 Feb 14 2012 at 6:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Its fine, no need to take a dump on it. Free Company Player Estates are going to be epic though.
#4 Feb 14 2012 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm thinking adding it now is a good sign of things to come, item storage could easily come with 2.0 and they just roll this out now with it's limited functionality to shake any initial bugs out of it.
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#5 Feb 14 2012 at 9:43 AM Rating: Decent
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I would assume the lack of mention in the delivery system and storage system means they are not complete yet. Yoshi did say that after the inns where in place, and characters could store items in the inn/home, we would lose the extra storage that was added to us and our retainers (with a window to transfer items).

So, when that is available, knowing how it's been going, there will be an announcement, a large public outcry, and then most people will use it, and like the consolidation.
#6 Feb 14 2012 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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Me at title: "Really!? They managed to pull of the implementation of player inns!? Delivery, decorating, furniture, resting, and who knows what else abound!? SE, there might be hope yet!"

Me at first paragraph: "OK, well, so far they're fine enough, at least... cutscene replay... and an inn for resting if you stand in it, like WoW, of course, but let's see where this is going..."

Me at the end:
"Oh, so, they figured out how to give a cutscene replay and a resting bonus. And I can't craft inside a private inn. Why do these private rooms exist at all, then? Wouldn't it have been easier just to give me a bonus for standing in a big inn, instead of going through all this fanfare over what is essentially an empty, nearly function-less room? o_O"

I suppose, at least, these rooms are some amount of proof that tangible progress is being made towards player housing by 2.0, which is certainly nice.
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#7 Feb 14 2012 at 10:16 AM Rating: Default
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gee thanks for sharing your inner monologue with us. i wish i could put my finger on what exactly is so irritating about your post, but i just woke up. maybe it's the nitpicking dissection of what is, plain and simple, temporary player housing that comes with a rested exp bonus. just effing accept the little gift and move on.


Quote:
So the thoughts I have after reading this dev post...

1. Does this mean (City - Quest) you can only use the inn in your starting city? I ask because I chose a Grand Company other than the city I started in.
2. So really, these houses only look cool we can’t use them for anything except to gain rested EXP and watching old cutscenes?
3. They didn’t mention storage of items which is a feature I thought they were adding to these houses.

Note to self: Post on the official forums and find answers.

Summary:
Other than the rested EXP, I personally think we could have waited until 2.0
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#8 Feb 14 2012 at 10:18 AM Rating: Default
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you answered your own question in the last line. none of you guys seem to remember that for all intents and purposes, this is still beta.


KaneKitty wrote:
Me at title: "Really!? They managed to pull of the implementation of player inns!? Delivery, decorating, furniture, resting, and who knows what else abound!? SE, there might be hope yet!"

Me at first paragraph: "OK, well, so far they're fine enough, at least... cutscene replay... and an inn for resting if you stand in it, like WoW, of course, but let's see where this is going..."

Me at the end:
"Oh, so, they figured out how to give a cutscene replay and a resting bonus. And I can't craft inside a private inn. Why do these private rooms exist at all, then? Wouldn't it have been easier just to give me a bonus for standing in a big inn, instead of going through all this fanfare over what is essentially an empty, nearly function-less room? o_O"

I suppose, at least, these rooms are some amount of proof that tangible progress is being made towards player housing by 2.0, which is certainly nice.


Edited, Feb 14th 2012 11:20am by Llester
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#9 Feb 14 2012 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Llester wrote:
you answered your own question in the last line. none of you guys seem to remember that for all intents and purposes, this is still beta.


Ahaha. Allow me to extend the list I originally made here.

Alpha: "It's only alpha, it'll get better later."
Closed Beta: "It's only closed beta, SE said we're only experiencing 10% of the game right now."
Open Beta: "It's only open beta, there will be a golden patch at release."
Sept. 2010: "It only just released, give it time."
Dec. 2010: "Tanaka is gone, Yoshi-P will save this game!"
Sept. 2011, 1-year anniversary: "The game has a bright future as most of us expected."
Feb. 2012, paid subscriptions commenced: "this is still beta."
#10 Feb 14 2012 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
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mbub wrote:
Llester wrote:
you answered your own question in the last line. none of you guys seem to remember that for all intents and purposes, this is still beta.


Ahaha. Allow me to extend the list I originally made here.

Alpha: "It's only alpha, it'll get better later."
Closed Beta: "It's only closed beta, SE said we're only experiencing 10% of the game right now."
Open Beta: "It's only open beta, there will be a golden patch at release."
Sept. 2010: "It only just released, give it time."
Dec. 2010: "Tanaka is gone, Yoshi-P will save this game!"
Sept. 2011, 1-year anniversary: "The game has a bright future as most of us expected."
Feb. 2012, paid subscriptions commenced: "this is still beta."


Let me add a few predictions:

Fall 2012 - Hey, where's 2.0?
Jan-Mar 2013 - Hey, seriously, where's 2.0?
Summer 2013 - Shouldn't we be having PS3 betas soon?
Fall 2013 - Just be patient! This game has such potential!

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 1:03pm by hexaemeron
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#11 Feb 14 2012 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Llester wrote:
this is still beta.


It's a year and a half past release; this is a game with a monthly subscription. We're not in beta, we're long-past release in v1.X waiting for v2.0. It's really as simple as that; there's no true term for this because no MMO has been in this situation before; no MMO has survived a terrible launch.

Just because the release of a game goes badly doesn't make the game still in beta. We may have a situation in which some aspects are similar to a beta test (e.g., planned overhauls and general instability), but I think everyone knows that to call what we have going on with FFXIV a "beta period" is to use the term in a way entirely different from all other cases.

I understand your point that FFXIV's current state has many similarities to a beta period but, that said, it is a game that's had far longer than a year to start getting itself together, a game that supposedly has a decent development team, and a game for which people are being charged both boxed- and monthly fees. We have a re-invigoration upon the horizon with 2.0, yes, but that simple fact doesn't rob anyone of their right to be underwhelmed at the implementation of something that - let's be honest - sounds like something great initially but is really very minuscule.

And that's just it: it's relatively minuscule. It makes the complaints seem "nit-picky," on one hand, but I suppose people are just expecting some kind of changes on a level that is correlative with the - what? - nearly six or seven years this game has been under development. We'll all play the game if it's good. And we all have the right to be underwhelmed along the way if parts don't seem like it.
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#12 Feb 14 2012 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I just wanted to point out something else someone said. You gain rested experience logged into the game when you're in, your inn. o.O

So crafting would be a non-stop extra bonus. Forever. So they're what they were supposed to be, cutscene replay and rested experience.

Rested experience is roughly the same thing as guardians aspect so let's not travel the route of "oh it's going to be like WoW" because it's had aspect since day one and no one complained back then. lol

This is also a SMALL fraction of what's coming in this update. I'm very excited to get my brd and pld running around hehehe.
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#13 Feb 14 2012 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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Umm if this game is still in beta, why are they charging for it? Just sayin. They either are in beta or they aren't. If they are in beta, they should just stop charging period. Who would pay to play a beta? *looks at official lodestone forums* Hrmmm......
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#14 Feb 14 2012 at 2:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elionara wrote:
I just wanted to point out something else someone said. You gain rested experience logged into the game when you're in, your inn. o.O

So crafting would be a non-stop extra bonus. Forever. So they're what they were supposed to be, cutscene replay and rested experience.


dev1301 wrote:
inn rooms are simplified private areas, and players cannot synthesize, repair, or affix material while in them. (Such features are planned for inclusion in FFXIV Version 2.0's housing system.)


But given that SE is planning to implement such features in the future, it seems more likely that they just couldn't make them work in time for 1.21.
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#15 Feb 14 2012 at 2:15 PM Rating: Default
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Overall the patch looks like its shaping up well.

Not going to complain but I am REALLY disappointed about not having storage in the house. I want to start levelling crafting jobs properly and it is hard to imagine it being anything other than painful when we have such limited storage still!

This game is so far from the game that was launched and each update takes us towards a "finished product".
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#16 Feb 14 2012 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, first impression not overly excited for this. Thought there would be much more available for these personal residences.

Quote:
* More features, such as login events, are planned for the future.


The patch is huge, no doubt about it. Can't really complain about it nor would something like this put a damper on my excitement. Not defending or hating, it just seems to me this is in 1.21 just so they can implement them and update over time. It also gives a reason to do those story quests other than the money and offers something to keep us occupied. I'm hoping through the patches, even maybe letter patches but I highly doubt it, they further improve on this even before 2.0 is reached. That is most likely wishful thinking. I just want to have a kick *** house and ball out! :)

EDIT: Reword a sentence that didn't make sense haha

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 3:52pm by Nashua
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#17 Feb 14 2012 at 4:37 PM Rating: Default
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a free port back to the inn and storage space is enough to make this useful for me
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#18 Feb 14 2012 at 6:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Llester wrote:
this is still beta.


It's a year and a half past release; this is a game with a monthly subscription. We're not in beta, we're long-past release in v1.X waiting for v2.0. It's really as simple as that; there's no true term for this because no MMO has been in this situation before; no MMO has survived a terrible launch.


I can't rate this up enough. I vote for the inclusion of a ********** yeah!" button so I can press it.

If they're charging, it's prime time now. We shouldn't be excusing this as only a test.
#19 Feb 14 2012 at 6:34 PM Rating: Default
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Gaining rested XP while using it simultaneously = no go.

(Crafting in your inn)
#20 Feb 14 2012 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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While this may seem miniscule and somewhat pointless to start, there's are a couple points we are forgetting:

1) a solid foundation is created for a private residence. This will make it fairly easy to add a "moogle" or npc or something that you can interact with to get your inventory. The foundation of a private residence has been added; the rest will come in future updates

2) there is an entirely different team working on the 2.0 version. From what I've read and heard, many things are simply not possible with the current version; hence the rewrite. In fact, the other team may have ported this player residence feature, and have already hooked up other features that simply aren't possible right now. Plus, it's sort of a sunk cost to add everything to this version because A) they are just going to throw it out, and B) I'm betting they are holding back a lot right now because they NEED features to set aside 2.0 from 1.x and entice everyone + new people to subscribe.

Just my two cents. It is also possible none of the above is true lol
#21 Feb 14 2012 at 7:24 PM Rating: Default
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Im basically a noob but... everyone keeps comparing this game to FF11 and how its not where its supposed to be blah blah ranting ranting.
So, just one tiny question: When 11 came out was it completely done?????? from what I hear... NO, so freaking suck it up! Its a new game, it have its issues and its a personal decision to play or not. If you dont like what they are doing you can (very easily after last update) LOG OUT! and go play Old Republic or something else! !!

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 8:26pm by colon905
#22 Feb 14 2012 at 7:32 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
2) there is an entirely different team working on the 2.0 version. From what I've read and heard, many things are simply not possible with the current version; hence the rewrite. In fact, the other team may have ported this player residence feature, and have already hooked up other features that simply aren't possible right now. Plus, it's sort of a sunk cost to add everything to this version because A) they are just going to throw it out, and B) I'm betting they are holding back a lot right now because they NEED features to set aside 2.0 from 1.x and entice everyone + new people to subscribe.


You're right, there is absolutely no reason for them to release content for us this early. It makes sense for them to release the core system for us and let us test it for them, so when the actual content comes out they have a bit less to work on. I'm going to agree with the above poster that we are basically in a paid beta, in the sense that the content being given to us seems like it's more for them to test than it is for us to play with.
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#23 Feb 14 2012 at 7:35 PM Rating: Good
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I think we are essentially being baited, strung along by just enough content to keep us occupied and paying until version 2.0 comes out lol I personally don't mind, though, as my gf and I have fun doing what little end game there is right now.
#24 Feb 14 2012 at 7:39 PM Rating: Decent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
Quote:
2) there is an entirely different team working on the 2.0 version. From what I've read and heard, many things are simply not possible with the current version; hence the rewrite. In fact, the other team may have ported this player residence feature, and have already hooked up other features that simply aren't possible right now. Plus, it's sort of a sunk cost to add everything to this version because A) they are just going to throw it out, and B) I'm betting they are holding back a lot right now because they NEED features to set aside 2.0 from 1.x and entice everyone + new people to subscribe.


You're right, there is absolutely no reason for them to release content for us this early. It makes sense for them to release the core system for us and let us test it for them, so when the actual content comes out they have a bit less to work on. I'm going to agree with the above poster that we are basically in a paid beta, in the sense that the content being given to us seems like it's more for them to test than it is for us to play with.



Because releasing nothing at all for 8 motnhs is a better choice.

Right.
#25 Feb 14 2012 at 7:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know what you are talking about Doctor Mog but I wouldn't suggest stringing along a player base for 8 months no matter what.

edit: i see now, i think there is conflicts in our definition of content. i don't believe much of what we're given is real content, because it doesn't inspire you to play more.

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 8:53pm by BlynkTheSneak
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#26 Feb 14 2012 at 7:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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colon905 wrote:
Im basically a noob but... everyone keeps comparing this game to FF11 and how its not where its supposed to be blah blah ranting ranting.
So, just one tiny question: When 11 came out was it completely done?????? from what I hear... NO, so freaking suck it up! Its a new game, it have its issues and its a personal decision to play or not. If you dont like what they are doing you can (very easily after last update) LOG OUT! and go play Old Republic or something else! !!

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 8:26pm by colon905


Its been in retail release a year and a half, that isnt new.
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#27 Feb 15 2012 at 3:06 AM Rating: Good
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colon905 wrote:
Im basically a noob but... everyone keeps comparing this game to FF11 and how its not where its supposed to be blah blah ranting ranting.
So, just one tiny question: When 11 came out was it completely done?????? from what I hear... NO, so freaking suck it up! Its a new game, it have its issues and its a personal decision to play or not. If you dont like what they are doing you can (very easily after last update) LOG OUT! and go play Old Republic or something else! !!

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 8:26pm by colon905

The first few words you say there sum it up, problem is XIV was supposed to be SE's next flag ship MMO. And in todays world where there are top quality MMOs being released with a ton of content AKA Star Wars. SE should have done a far better job, they admitted it blah blah.

Fact is yet again SE is releasing some thing very small compared to what paying customers deserve, yet again as an FFXI player I see another quest for something small - typical SE.

The fact your a noob pretty much says it all, XIV will be compared to XI because it is a lot like it. If you have not played XI what so ever then you have zero right to say anything. XI was released at a time when there wasn't exactly a large amount of choices of top quality MMOs, now there are some that are even Free To Play. People are angry over the release of XIV (It was a terrible state) and the updates that have been coming have not exactly been a pleasure. People do have the right to be angry and compare it to XI.
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#28 Feb 15 2012 at 4:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
Quote:
2) there is an entirely different team working on the 2.0 version. From what I've read and heard, many things are simply not possible with the current version; hence the rewrite. In fact, the other team may have ported this player residence feature, and have already hooked up other features that simply aren't possible right now. Plus, it's sort of a sunk cost to add everything to this version because A) they are just going to throw it out, and B) I'm betting they are holding back a lot right now because they NEED features to set aside 2.0 from 1.x and entice everyone + new people to subscribe.


You're right, there is absolutely no reason for them to release content for us this early. It makes sense for them to release the core system for us and let us test it for them, so when the actual content comes out they have a bit less to work on. I'm going to agree with the above poster that we are basically in a paid beta, in the sense that the content being given to us seems like it's more for them to test than it is for us to play with.


No reason for them to release content for us this early? They're charging people to play this game. If the player's role is honestly to test out their bare bones features so they can add real content later on, SE should be paying you, not the other way around. I can't believe there are people who view their role as beta testers who pay a subscription and embrace it willingly.
#29 Feb 15 2012 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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HallieXIV wrote:
Overall the patch looks like its shaping up well.

Not going to complain but I am REALLY disappointed about not having storage in the house. I want to start levelling crafting jobs properly and it is hard to imagine it being anything other than painful when we have such limited storage still!

This game is so far from the game that was launched and each update takes us towards a "finished product".



Limited storage? Don't we have 200 Inventory slots alongside 2 retainers with 100 slots each?
#30 Feb 15 2012 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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Susanoh wrote:
BlynkTheSneak wrote:
Quote:
2) there is an entirely different team working on the 2.0 version. From what I've read and heard, many things are simply not possible with the current version; hence the rewrite. In fact, the other team may have ported this player residence feature, and have already hooked up other features that simply aren't possible right now. Plus, it's sort of a sunk cost to add everything to this version because A) they are just going to throw it out, and B) I'm betting they are holding back a lot right now because they NEED features to set aside 2.0 from 1.x and entice everyone + new people to subscribe.


You're right, there is absolutely no reason for them to release content for us this early. It makes sense for them to release the core system for us and let us test it for them, so when the actual content comes out they have a bit less to work on. I'm going to agree with the above poster that we are basically in a paid beta, in the sense that the content being given to us seems like it's more for them to test than it is for us to play with.


No reason for them to release content for us this early? They're charging people to play this game. If the player's role is honestly to test out their bare bones features so they can add real content later on, SE should be paying you, not the other way around. I can't believe there are people who view their role as beta testers who pay a subscription and embrace it willingly.


Susanoh wrote:
BlynkTheSneak wrote:
Quote:
2) there is an entirely different team working on the 2.0 version. From what I've read and heard, many things are simply not possible with the current version; hence the rewrite. In fact, the other team may have ported this player residence feature, and have already hooked up other features that simply aren't possible right now. Plus, it's sort of a sunk cost to add everything to this version because A) they are just going to throw it out, and B) I'm betting they are holding back a lot right now because they NEED features to set aside 2.0 from 1.x and entice everyone + new people to subscribe.


You're right, there is absolutely no reason for them to release content for us this early. It makes sense for them to release the core system for us and let us test it for them, so when the actual content comes out they have a bit less to work on. I'm going to agree with the above poster that we are basically in a paid beta, in the sense that the content being given to us seems like it's more for them to test than it is for us to play with.


No reason for them to release content for us this early? They're charging people to play this game. If the player's role is honestly to test out their bare bones features so they can add real content later on, SE should be paying you, not the other way around. I can't believe there are people who view their role as beta testers who pay a subscription and embrace it willingly.


Doc Mog is a frequent poster on the lodestone forums and many others there share his views on it. While they are entitled to their view, it is not one I see eye to eye with.

Colon:

Many of us do not wish to suck it up. Many of us were deceived by advertisement of not only a sub-par product, but in order to run it, had to spend money to either update our rigs so we could run it or buy a new one all together. So many have the right to be angry.

Like another poster stated, XI was out during the infancy of MMO. During this period, Companies were able to release what we consider sub-par today and get away with it. XI at release was rife with issues. However, over time, stop me if I am wrong, companies have improved quality of their releases and over-all games. And so in today's market, it would most likely be wise to release a game to compete with others. Not just content alone, but a functioning central market that is user friendly, party search engine, a craft system that maybe won't bore one to death, have servers set up for time zones so people can chose which zone best suits their needs to find a group.

These are just a few things that many expect out of an MMO one is paying for. Many would most likely agree with your "suck it up mentality" if MMO's were still in its infancy, thing is they aren't. And ffxiv's competitors are drawing away their populations, hence SE needing to do a server merge so players on less populated servers can enjoy this game while they rework it.
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#31 Feb 15 2012 at 8:25 AM Rating: Default
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Susanoh wrote:
No reason for them to release content for us this early? They're charging people to play this game. If the player's role is honestly to test out their bare bones features so they can add real content later on, SE should be paying you, not the other way around. I can't believe there are people who view their role as beta testers who pay a subscription and embrace it willingly.


There are plenty of times that I'm willing to accept being openly deceived. I don't mind paying $10 a month to help them beta test this game. I'm not going to pretend that they aren't obviously saving content for their 2.0 release, when they admit it around every turn.

I would personally rather them save all of the content for 2.0 release. I prefer this game to be a long-term success, and I don't mind waiting for it.
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#32 Feb 15 2012 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
There are plenty of times that I'm willing to accept being openly deceived. I don't mind paying $10 a month to help them beta test this game. I'm not going to pretend that they aren't obviously saving content for their 2.0 release, when they admit it around every turn.

I would personally rather them save all of the content for 2.0 release. I prefer this game to be a long-term success, and I don't mind waiting for it.


It's even cheaper if you pay for larger time periods. 180 days, or six months, runs at about $45 which is ~$7.50 per month. I have no issues with maintaing a subscription to FFXIV even in its current state at that rate.

Edited, Feb 15th 2012 10:20am by Whales
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#33 Feb 15 2012 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
Susanoh wrote:
No reason for them to release content for us this early? They're charging people to play this game. If the player's role is honestly to test out their bare bones features so they can add real content later on, SE should be paying you, not the other way around. I can't believe there are people who view their role as beta testers who pay a subscription and embrace it willingly.


There are plenty of times that I'm willing to accept being openly deceived. I don't mind paying $10 a month to help them beta test this game. I'm not going to pretend that they aren't obviously saving content for their 2.0 release, when they admit it around every turn.

I would personally rather them save all of the content for 2.0 release. I prefer this game to be a long-term success, and I don't mind waiting for it.


You are SE's favorite kind of customer. I do not understand this mentality at all.
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#34 Feb 15 2012 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
There are plenty of times that I'm willing to accept being openly deceived.

Assuming you are male, there are only two times that it's OK be openly deceived..
1. If your partner says "It's not the size of the boat, it's the motion of the ocean"
2. If your partner says "You're the best I've ever had"

That's pretty much it. There are a few others but they almost all pertain to the same types of situations.
#35 Feb 15 2012 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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I can't believe there are people who view their role as beta testers who pay a subscription and embrace it willingly.

"I am doing it, so it must be good."
#36 Feb 15 2012 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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It boils down to people who appreciate and value honesty over companies unconcerned with the relationship between consumer/supplier. SE has kept us more updated than they ever have since XIV's launch (****, even since XI's launch. Anyone who played XI, assuming most of you here, should remember how scarce their communication was with us then >.>). They recognize when we are displeased with the direction of something, such as the server merges, and change it accordingly. They let us know in advance that certain features are being delayed, such as Hamlet Defense, as to not try and lead us on, I could continue.

They let us know up front what they're doing (more so than other MMOs I've encountered in the past, at least) and allow us an indirect say in how things turn out. That's worth $10/month to me, even if solely based on respect for them.
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#37 Feb 15 2012 at 12:44 PM Rating: Default
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hexaemeron wrote:
You are SE's favorite kind of customer. I do not understand this mentality at all.


Quote:
They let us know up front what they're doing (more so than other MMOs I've encountered in the past, at least) and allow us an indirect say in how things turn out. That's worth $10/month to me, even if solely based on respect for them.


I totally agree. I don't know why people make this worse than it is. We are paying to have a voice in one of the largest MMO releases of all time. They're essentially developing this game around us and our playing habits. I love it.

Edited, Feb 15th 2012 1:45pm by BlynkTheSneak
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#38 Feb 15 2012 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I really hope that this get corrected
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#39 Feb 15 2012 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
You are SE's favorite kind of customer. I do not understand this mentality at all.


Quote:
They let us know up front what they're doing (more so than other MMOs I've encountered in the past, at least) and allow us an indirect say in how things turn out. That's worth $10/month to me, even if solely based on respect for them.


I totally agree. I don't know why people make this worse than it is. We are paying to have a voice in one of the largest MMO releases of all time. They're essentially developing this game around us and our playing habits. I love it.

Edited, Feb 15th 2012 1:45pm by BlynkTheSneak


Ah. I understand now. No more clarification required.
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#40 Feb 15 2012 at 3:46 PM Rating: Good
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Umm. When you p2p a regular MMO don't the pops usually have a voice anyways?
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#41 Feb 15 2012 at 5:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Umm. When you p2p a regular MMO don't the pops usually have a voice anyways?


Maybe 15 years ago, there was this thing called "land lines." You sent and received long distance calls over them. (Some people even got their internet access that way Smiley: eek.) Anyway, there was a huge drive by long distance providers to collect as many customers as they could. They would offer cut-throat deals just for switching to them. If you were a loyal customer, however, you got nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Some TV providers have offered similar deals. Switch to them and pay almost nothing for 6 months. Of course if you're a loyal customer, you get nothing. Absolutely nothing.

So this notion that current FFXIV players are being listened and catered too seems suspicious to me. SE already has you guys, and I doubt you're going anywhere considering what you're paying for already. What they really want is for people to switch to FFXIV so they can at least pay off their steep production costs. Seems to me, their interest is going to be towards the players they don't yet have and what they can do to convince them to get a subscription today!
#42 Feb 15 2012 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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mm. When you p2p a regular MMO don't the pops usually have a voice anyways?


Not really. FFXIV is in a situation that I've never seen before. It's an already launched MMO that's being reconstructed. Every feature is free-game for public opinion. They also have a forum that doesn't move a mile a day and the developers actually read through it.

Not only that, but they have to collect data from somewhere. Right now we're actively giving them data, and they're basing their game on that. Maybe they see that we enjoy spending lots of time in the cities, so they will put more effort into expanding that experience.
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#43 Feb 15 2012 at 6:36 PM Rating: Good
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Hate to tell you but the debs aren't taking just players who are paying data. The reps have already said in a post sometime back they are also sifting through sites like these to get ideas and input. Like the poster before you has said, SE already has you paying, there are not a whole lot of you paying to play.

They are more worried about people like me who are waitin or people like my husband and three friends who left for better games. They want THOSE people who left in the first few mass exoduses to return.

So they just aren't trying to "listen" or cater to people already there, I imagine they want to be a competitive MMO. Not only to recoup costs but to also restore faith in the brand. Because they have lost a lot of both.
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#44 Feb 15 2012 at 6:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Umm. When you p2p a regular MMO don't the pops usually have a voice anyways?


This. Also, closed and open beta testers for those games get a voice too, and they don't pay a dime.

Those advocating paying SE for beta are the greatest consumers on Earth from a corporate standpoint. If this were public opinion, you'd see a lot more companies jumping at the chance to charge people to join extended periods of open beta. Fortunately, public opinion is not to pay large corporations to finish their games that they're still going to charge you again for once they're finished.
#45 Feb 15 2012 at 7:09 PM Rating: Default
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Hate to tell you but the debs aren't taking just players who are paying data. The reps have already said in a post sometime back they are also sifting through sites like these to get ideas and input. Like the poster before you has said, SE already has you paying, there are not a whole lot of you paying to play.

They are more worried about people like me who are waitin or people like my husband and three friends who left for better games. They want THOSE people who left in the first few mass exoduses to return.

So they just aren't trying to "listen" or cater to people already there, I imagine they want to be a competitive MMO. Not only to recoup costs but to also restore faith in the brand. Because they have lost a lot of both.


I think you've gotten a little bit carried a way with what I meant. There are two different types of data they can collect: ideas from forums, and player habits. Ideas are a dime a dozen, but they absolutely are (and have been) collecting player habits. That's the most valuable type of information you can get.

As for ideas, there is no line separating paying customers for non-paying customers. There is no vastly different list of wants. You would probably enjoy the same things in an MMO if you were paying for it as you would if you weren't paying for it. What people playing this game can give is insight into what they /can/ change based on experience, rather than simple concepts (which are a dime a dozen).

There is a evidence on the forums that they are listening to their current users, so I'm plenty happy with that.

Quote:
Those advocating paying SE for beta are the greatest consumers on Earth from a corporate standpoint. If this were public opinion, you'd see a lot more companies jumping at the chance to charge people to join extended periods of open beta. Fortunately, public opinion is not to pay large corporations to finish their games that they're still going to charge you again for once they're finished.


I agree. If you like something, vote with your wallet. It's the only way to get people to listen.

Edit: I'm just going to start proving things to you guys since a lot of you just hate to hear facts. Here's an article:

Quote:
At the time, the decision to start charging a fee was controversial, but it made sense. By this time, most of the people playing FFXIV casually had drifted away (about 12,000 active players down from 600,000 copies sold), and Square Enix figured most active players would be willing to pay a reduced subscription fee to keep playing the game until the 2.0 overhaul. They were right (orange is the number of FFXIV logins during Japanese prime time pre-subs, red is post-subs).


Quote:
This is a crucial piece of information that framed Square Enix's plans throughout 2012. The fact that most players playing prior to the implementation of the subscription fees continued to play after subscription fees were required was interpreted by Square Enix as: "The only players that matter are the ones that are currently active subscribers." All players that had not subscribed were considered lost and no consideration was made for future players. Square Enix basically thought it was making a game for just those 12,000 people. As we will see, this act of sense-making directed producers of FFXIV to believe that their original plan, involving the destruction of all existing in-game communities, was the best course of action.


Quote:
Yoshida clearly believed the currently unsubscribed players were a lost cause: they weren’t going to renew their subscription and play until 2.0. Instead, the game’s population would remain largely stable for the remaining year until the re-launch. This conclusion was probably reached by looking at the population numbers before and after implementing the subscription fee: because there was not a significant drop in players, they concluded that players who were not paying now were not interested in playing at all.


Quote:
Square Enix fell afoul of a decision-making fallacy that I see all too often in the games industry: they completely excluded the importance of non-paying players. A non-paying player might not be paying now, but might be paying later; however, if said player is randomly reassigned to a foreign server, they are far less likely to become paying later. Likewise, current players might be playing thinking their friends will come back and join later, but if their friends are taken away to another server, they might give up and stop playing too.


http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/SimonLudgate/20120215/9449/Analysis_FFXIVs_Consolidation_Plan.php

Edited, Feb 15th 2012 8:53pm by BlynkTheSneak
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#46 Feb 15 2012 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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You would probably enjoy the same things in an MMO if you were paying for it as you would if you weren't paying for it.


Well...that depends...Is the MMO I'm not paying for "release" worthy? I.E. functioning economy, in-depth story and side quests that contribute to in depbth story and not just random questing for fillers sake, is there lag? How bad is said lag? What is the functionatlity of the UI? Is there a party search feature? Is their multiple ways of leveling that ARE NOT monotonous? Can I level via doing a story line? Does it take forever for f2p game to patch things, add additional content, additional stories? Are additional content reserved for end-game only or is the additonal content spread amongst levels so that the lowbies/casual players do not feel left out?

These are things that SE at launch failed to do, and granted, they have come a long long way since launch, but they have barely, at lest IMO IDK about the rest of the communities, scratched the surface.

As for
Quote:
What people playing this game can give is insight into what they /can/ change based on experience, rather than simple concepts (which are a dime a dozen).
...it's called beta. You nor anyone else should have to pay for beta. SE, at least for the duration of FFXIV has a very bad habit of having a patch, releasing it, and having to make major changes. Good example is the EXP points. At release it was very, VERY sporatic. Then they decided to tweak it. People didn't like it. So they tweaked it agian. Until we evenutally got to the point of finally have balanced EXP, oh and to top it off, PLEVEL. <---That is the worst word I ever want to hear in an MMO, for personal reasons.

They obviously didn't test things before their first release/flop and they didn't seem to test exp. before releasing patch after patch to fix it. (Or at least that it was I got since they were constantly having to fix it, of course I could totally be wrong about that, but I'm just saying from a player's observation.)

Not just people playing it can give insight. Again, they already have your money. They don't have mine, or God only knows how many others have left. It's the ones who left they have to convince to return. So not only do they need paying customers input, but they need to figure out what will draw people back and then some. Again, this is a business, they are in it for the profit.

???
???
???
Profit.

The first three steps they need to figure out before they can actually reap a profit or recouping of losses.
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#47 Feb 15 2012 at 8:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Susanoh wrote:
Fortunately, public opinion is not to pay large corporations to finish their games that they're still going to charge you again for once they're finished.


Yeah, the public likes to pay for those "finished" games' slew of $10 DLC, instead!
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#48 Feb 15 2012 at 8:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
Edit: I'm just going to start proving things to you guys since a lot of you just hate to hear facts. Here's an article:

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/SimonLudgate/20120215/9449/Analysis_FFXIVs_Consolidation_Plan.php


An opinion piece blog post is no more factual than my belief that chocolate mint ice cream is better than butter pecan.
#49 Feb 15 2012 at 8:32 PM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:
BlynkTheSneak wrote:
Edit: I'm just going to start proving things to you guys since a lot of you just hate to hear facts. Here's an article:

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/SimonLudgate/20120215/9449/Analysis_FFXIVs_Consolidation_Plan.php



An opinion piece blog post is no more factual than my belief that chocolate mint ice cream is better than butter pecan.


Can we leave food out of discussion ><; I'm pregnant and now craving both choco mint and butter pecan...thanks alot Xoie >.>;

Edited, Feb 15th 2012 9:32pm by LillithaFenimore
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#50 Feb 15 2012 at 8:42 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
An opinion piece blog post is no more factual than my belief that chocolate mint ice cream is better than butter pecan.


That's a terrible way to disregard the opinion of a brilliant man who has actual game development experience. If you just look at his facts, he presents a very strong argument.

Your message is too long for me to pick apart, Lillitha. I did read it, though. I will ask you this: how can you design and improve your combat system using the opinions of people who've never played with it?

Think about this. Do you scrap and rebuild, based on vague ideas from internet forums? Is that the most cost-effective way of doing it?

I would, personally, read complaints from my current users and find out what they think. I would scan over data from people using the current combat system everyday and find out what features they use and don't use.
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#51 Feb 15 2012 at 9:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
Edit: I'm just going to start proving things to you guys since a lot of you just hate to hear facts. Here's an article:


That article says that 12,000 (out of 600,000) people who were willing to play this game in its current state were also willing to pay a subscription for it. If you were targeting this response at me (not sure if you were by that point in your post or just speaking in general), I'll just say that information isn't too surprising.

KaneKitty wrote:
Yeah, the public likes to pay for those "finished" games' slew of $10 DLC, instead!


Don't remind me. Smiley: glare
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