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So did they do anything about power leveling...?Follow

#1 Mar 08 2012 at 3:02 PM Rating: Decent
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hello Its been a while since i roamed the forums after i quit ff14 due to people abusing the crap out of power leveling during some patch ago, anyways i was wondering:

1)did they remove or fix the ability to gather a bunch of enemy get in group of people "afk" and 20+ level difference and gain 1-40 levels in a single day? seriously this was the last straw for me when i was playing, heck i have friends on server who showed me their achievement logs which read and ill copy as example:

Quote:
Quoted Text
History:
Level 50 Pugilist Achieved!
"player name" (Figaro) is now a level 50 pugilist.
11/12/2011


Level 35 Pugilist Achieved!
"player name" (Figaro) is now a level 40 pugilist.
11/11/2011

Level 5 Pugilist Achieved!
"player Name (Figaro) is now a level 40 pugilist.
11/11/2011

Level 45 Maraudert Achieved!
"player Name" (Figaro) is now a level 45 Marauder.
11/10/2011

Level 15 Marauder Achieved!
"player Name" (Figaro) is now a level 15 Marauder.
11/10/2011
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Quoted Text


and the list goes on all within 1-5 days 4-5 class all maxed.

this is one of the many things in a ton of player history during the patch that made people abuse the system to max out every single class.
seriously this was utterly retarded in so many ways and nothing was done about it. And here i thought leveling was already dumbed down as it was before but it wasn't that bad because you had to level your character yourself.

2) did they remove peoples levels in any way similar to release when people abused a healing bug that made people one again afk and bot their levels away?


No offense to anyone but this was one of the greatest things to leave bitter taste to me when people can just "afk" and let a single person just roam and AoE everything and get non stop levels and even reaching cap in a single day, i see this as broken mechanics, the majority of the people i know or see around server went from having 1-2 max class which took them a little while to get to reaching max cap for all within 3 days.

Anyone else on me with this?

Edited, Mar 8th 2012 4:05pm by KingAlkaiser

Edited, Mar 8th 2012 4:07pm by KingAlkaiser

Edited, Mar 8th 2012 4:07pm by KingAlkaiser
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#2 Mar 08 2012 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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did they remove or fix the ability to gather a bunch of enemy get in group of people "afk" and 20+ level difference and gain 1-40 levels in a single day?

No. Evidently that system is considered to be "working as intended".
#3 Mar 08 2012 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
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If you want to do it, do it. If you don't, don't. Who cares if someone PLs? If they want to be a PLed noob be my guest. I know a lot of people who just refuse to PL. I personally don't mind it. /endminirant
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#4 Mar 08 2012 at 3:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think in general leveling has been made easier, especially with recent patches. Power leveling can still be done. With this patch they have added rested bonus:

Rested Bonus

When player characters enter an inn, they go into “resting mode,” accumulating a rested bonus as time passes. Even after players have logged out, the rested bonus continues to accumulate up to a maximum limit. When player characters are sufficiently rested, experience points earned through combat, synthesis, and gathering are increased by 50%.


Massively posted an interview with Yoshida today (a couple of the questions pertains to leveling adjustments):

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/08/final-fantasy-xivs-naoki-yoshida-talks-patch-1-21-and-the-futur/


Considering the experience adjustments and the new food buff to experience, should players expect an overall increase or decrease in leveling speed?

Food effects have always contained an EXP bonus, so I don't believe that the adjustments will result in any changes in the overall leveling speed. I believe that the rested benefits from inns will be more significant. Many players may cut down on their playtime until the launch of version 2.0, so with that in mind, I wanted to slightly increase leveling speed in order to decrease the level gaps between players and at the same time allow new players to get a chance to catch up and play with current players. This does not mean that the leveling speed will remain higher after version 2.0, but we decided on this adjustment for now to make it easier for players to invite friends to over to FFXIV.


Will rested benefits apply to Disciples of the Land and of the Hand?

That's right, the rested benefits will apply to all classes.
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#5 Mar 08 2012 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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my only real gripe is when players get burnt from 1-40 run natalan without any knowledge of how there job works and end up killing everyone.
and also run to dh ifrit or whatever as a job they have no ability in.

that and the fact that being so easy to get pld 1-40 so quick it kills the market for low level gear which has ahuge impact on the economy and crafters.
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#6 Mar 08 2012 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dzian wrote:
my only real gripe is when players get burnt from 1-40 run natalan without any knowledge of how there job works and end up killing everyone.
and also run to dh ifrit or whatever as a job they have no ability in.

that and the fact that being so easy to get pld 1-40 so quick it kills the market for low level gear which has ahuge impact on the economy and crafters.


There was never much of a market for low level gear. Powerleveling just removed all doubt.

Edited, Mar 8th 2012 5:05pm by Xoie
#7 Mar 08 2012 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
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Dzian wrote:
my only real gripe is when players get burnt from 1-40 run natalan without any knowledge of how there job works and end up killing everyone.
and also run to dh ifrit or whatever as a job they have no ability in.

that and the fact that being so easy to get pld 1-40 so quick it kills the market for low level gear which has ahuge impact on the economy and crafters.


While that's my normal complaint... with all the changes to jobs I don't even know really the best way to play PGL... it keeps changing.
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#8 Mar 08 2012 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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Dzian wrote:
my only real gripe is when players get burnt from 1-40 run natalan without any knowledge of how there job works and end up killing everyone.
and also run to dh ifrit or whatever as a job they have no ability in.

that and the fact that being so easy to get pld 1-40 so quick it kills the market for low level gear which has ahuge impact on the economy and crafters.


Is this even possible or are you talking out of your ****? I thought the XP was within 10 levels?

Overall, power leveling is quite fast but... normal XP parties are almost just as fast and are about to become even faster. This game isn't exactly difficult to get a hang of either, honestly. Your buttons light up now.

I'm not saying if it's good or bad but... leveling is really fast already before this patch and it just got faster.
#9 Mar 08 2012 at 5:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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s this even possible or are you talking out of your ****? I thought the XP was within 10 levels?

Overall, power leveling is quite fast but... normal XP parties are almost just as fast and are about to become even faster.

you can burn 1-40 incredibly fast. so yes it's very possible and it's also very common. the 10 level difference has no impact on a pl.
and a pl party can hit 1-40 in about 8 hours. i've pl'd people in my linkshell 1-30 in under 3 hours and thats with tea breaks.

resonance > blizzara > ousted > fira > everything dead > invited. rinse & repeat don't even need to move.

30+ things get a little more tricky the faster pl camps tend to require a tank and outside nuker or 2

there's no way you can party that fast thats why PL is so common

Edited, Mar 8th 2012 6:19pm by Dzian
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#10 Mar 08 2012 at 5:16 PM Rating: Good
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And that's done all in Natalan... ? That was the point of my reply. I know how fast PL is - I did not realize Level 1 get XP from Rank 40+s.

If you're talking about different camps, that makes sense to me.
#11 Mar 09 2012 at 12:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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thank you guys for the reply I am extremely disappointing in hearing this is not yet fixed in anyway and its the norm and accepted by SE.

"I did not realize Level 1 get XP from Rank 40+s"
yes and this is the biggest flaw with it a full party of leechers just auto follow and the level 50 just AoE group of enemy and the entire party that does absolutely nothing gains experience points and chains. Add 2-3 level 50 and a person can do absolutely nothing for 5 hours and reach cap or multiple jobs to 35 in 2-3 hours.

This causes many problems like mentioned before specially for crafters and low level equipment being completely useless due to people fast forwarding their characters.

it was worst before they patched it up and fixed it a tiny bit when you gained 100% of the xp, but its still bad and the worst part about it is that its extremely used and abused and even if they fix the people that abused it still have everything max making level progression extremely pointless. On top of that with the minimal things there are to do endgame people get bored and have nothing to do, this is in no way beneficial for anyone in any kind of way xp is extremely easy to get in the game as it is normally so anyone wanting to catch up can do it normally extremely fast this just completely breaks the game.

P.S- you should of seen the official forums on his topic 400+ thread, thought it got passed around here as well.
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#12 Mar 09 2012 at 1:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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I hate the powerleveling... I don't mind so much when it is 1-15 to unlock something, but when people PL jobs/classes that they intend to actually play I die a little inside...
#13 Mar 09 2012 at 2:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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The poewerleveling crap makes all dungeons and gear below 45 completely useless.
Wasn't there a place called "sploshae" or something? The cave that drops unique
equipment with such a low drop rate that you will have 5 jobs to 30 with PL before
even getting one piece of it?

In FFXI I knew: hey, it will take me months to get to 75, but look: at 20 I will be able
to do outpost missions. And at 30 promyvions. And get my chocobo. And subjobs.

There was so many good things sprinkled in-between, that I never ever felt the need
to rush to the point where the endless repetition of the same cheesy speedruns and
bossfights awaited ("Endgame", quite literally. It's the point where the game ends
and conveyor belt work begins). And I always knew I was able to sell that L 30 gear
for a resonable price. Or keep it, because I would actually need it later.

The solution: "don't PL" they say. Bullsh*t, I reply. When everyone does it and all your
friends jump to 50 in a day or two, and only I sit in sploshae, imagine the fun I have.

Edited, Mar 9th 2012 3:31am by Rinsui
#14 Mar 09 2012 at 2:41 AM Rating: Excellent
I really wish SE would have held off on AF armor until the level cap increase, and I wish they would have made the AF armor more difficult to get. I also wish they'd get rid of the stupid power leveling. However, if you play this game like me and don't power level, then it's actually a lot of fun (when you can actually find people to play with).
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#15 Mar 09 2012 at 3:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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However, if you play this game like me and don't power level, then it's actually a lot of fun (when you can actually find people to play with).

Sure, when I choose to shoot myself in the knee and participate in Paralympics, I will have lots of fun with the other paraplegics in my team.

Thayos, I understand and respect your argumentation. And in fact, in Skyrim (a offline RPG) I actually chose to impair my own progress with several house rules (like: not smithing stuff beyond my weapon level, never using any potions, never using followers and so on). This vastly increased the challenge (and fun) I had.

It is just too far from what I consider realistic for the (somewhere deep inside *somehow* competitive) environment of a MMO. I don't need to be the server first in defeating a boss, speeding through a dungeon (which, by the way, I also consider a very cheesy mechanic) or obtaining my relic weapon. But I will not suffer seeing others get ten times the stuff I get for basically free, experience all of what little new content there is @"Endgame", and spit down at my LFP because I think fights for *experience* should involve a minimum of experienced challenge (preferably because of difficulty, and not because of tedium).

That is how I last experienced the game, shortly before I quit. In a offline RPG, I am - within the boundaries the game mechanics provide - very capable of bending the rules to my liking. In a MMO, this is, at least for me, a task I cannot (and, to be precise: am not willing to have to) manage, as I am part of a larger community. It's like in real life. Within the boundaries of my house, I am king. Outside, I (generally) consider it reasonable to adapt to the rules the general public has agreed on, simply because challenging each of those rules comes at a price higher than the benefit you could possibly gain from bending them.

Back to the concrete case of a MMO "society" this means that, in order to experience the benefits membership in the general community provides (people to play with and access to associated content), I see myself forced to either invest an unreasonable plus of lifetime to catch up on my own, to swallow the bitter medicine and hop on the PL bandwagon... or switch over to Skyrim and its successors until something more worthy of my lifetime than FFXIV apperas on the stage. 1)

So. End of today's "MMO philosophy" lesson, hahaha! I am ready for discussion.

1) Ironically, writing in this forum provides me with more pleasure than the game itself ever has.
#16 Mar 09 2012 at 4:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Frankly if people want to do their jobs like this then thats their decision why complain about it, its not hurting any one else. Its not breaking the game if they are not learning to play their jobs.

This is the same thing in XI when it comes to Abyssea, only gripe I have with it is forking out 100k per hour when you can do your own for free. If people are stupid enough to pay for it then let them, if people dont want to actually play the game but just get the high levels then let them be.
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#17 Mar 09 2012 at 6:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm in agreement with the thread creator on this one personally. Including gameplay mechanics that allow for people to easily level up in a day will result in that being the accepted norm in a multiplayer game. This ruins the low level equipment market for combat classes, so that those leveling DoH jobs are unlikely to sell much until they get close to the level cap (granted, they can sell to other cratfters/DoL). It also limits the number of people who want do exp using other means, which could make it difficult to find a party. Lastly, any hope of some real significant low level content is gone if players are going to immediately reach the cap on any job they want.

I have to wonder why the leveling process even exists if this early on in the game, it's already being rendered a minor afk time waste. They could have simply done away with the leveling process if it is not going to serve a purpose in terms of content, economy, or learning process. If they want the game to be a speed run to cap, I'd suggest that they either boost party experience to absolutely ridiculous levels (like that of Grounds of Valor and Abyssea FFXI parties) or add some sort of low level content that is fun and engaging to let you learn your class in the 8 hours or however long it is meant to take to hit the cap. It wouldn't solve the problem of DoH and DoL classes still being slow to level and being unable to provide anything useful to combat classes until very late in the leveling process (that'd be another issue to tackle), but it would be better than afk power leveling becoming the most widely accepted method.

Edited, Mar 9th 2012 7:27am by Susanoh
#18 Mar 09 2012 at 12:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Susanoh wrote:
I'm in agreement with the thread creator on this one personally. Including gameplay mechanics that allow for people to easily level up in a day will result in that being the accepted norm in a multiplayer game. This ruins the low level equipment market for combat classes, so that those leveling DoH jobs are unlikely to sell much until they get close to the level cap (granted, they can sell to other cratfters/DoL). It also limits the number of people who want do exp using other means, which could make it difficult to find a party. Lastly, any hope of some real significant low level content is gone if players are going to immediately reach the cap on any job they want.

I have to wonder why the leveling process even exists if this early on in the game, it's already being rendered a minor afk time waste. They could have simply done away with the leveling process if it is not going to serve a purpose in terms of content, economy, or learning process. If they want the game to be a speed run to cap, I'd suggest that they either boost party experience to absolutely ridiculous levels (like that of Grounds of Valor and Abyssea FFXI parties) or add some sort of low level content that is fun and engaging to let you learn your class in the 8 hours or however long it is meant to take to hit the cap. It wouldn't solve the problem of DoH and DoL classes still being slow to level and being unable to provide anything useful to combat classes until very late in the leveling process (that'd be another issue to tackle), but it would be better than afk power leveling becoming the most widely accepted method.

Edited, Mar 9th 2012 7:27am by Susanoh


I'm on board with everything in this statement. In my opinion Abyssea ruined XI. It destroyed any need to experience most of the content implemented during the 8 previous years of expansions and game development. What I hope is that Yoshi somehow convinces players that they need to start over and experience all the new low and mid level content released at 2.0 (if indeed there is any). There is currently no point to being a DoH or DoL of any level but 50 because the lower level gear is useless and you end up selling everything to vendors.
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#19 Mar 09 2012 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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kainsilv wrote:
I'm on board with everything in this statement. In my opinion Abyssea ruined XI. It destroyed any need to experience most of the content implemented during the 8 previous years of expansions and game development.


I think that assessment is too harsh. FFXI did an excellent job of keeping the "starter towns" relevant and vibrant for years, well past what most MMOs are capable of these days. But you'd be hard pressed to convince people of the importance of turning in 4 flint stones for 100 gil anymore. MMOs have to adapt and change as their players move on from struggling at low levels to challenging the high ones, and that means the old quests just won't cut it (they are, of course, still in the game, and absolutely utterly ignored, but they are still there if you ever have nostalgia for them).

There will never be an influx of new players jumping into FFXI for the first time. There's no longer a need to cater to the n00b masses. The people who still play FFXI want to challenge level 99 content and they don't want an old school grind to experience it lest they jump to another, flashier game with a bright future that isn't so demanding. Abyssea is just fun... be a super hero for a few hours while killing off giant NMs (in the right way) for bad *** gear. Nothing could be more pure for a mature MMO pushing 10 years.

Leveling to 99 might be fast when compared to the past, but gearing up takes time (but not so much time that visible progress is unattainable). Things like Dynamis and Campaign have also been adapted to continue being relevant, Armor Upgrade quests and synths keeps the hard-fought gear of the past from going stale and irrelevant, and work is ongoing to adapt and add new things. Honestly, Abyssea has breathed life in a dying MMO. It's not the FFXI you remember, but at least people are playing it and having fun.

Edited, Mar 9th 2012 4:22pm by Xoie
#20 Mar 09 2012 at 10:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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"
Quote:
Quoted Text
There was so many good things sprinkled in-between, that I never ever felt the need
to rush to the point where the endless repetition of the same cheesy speedruns and
bossfights awaited ("Endgame", quite literally. It's the point where the game ends
and conveyor belt work begins). And I always knew I was able to sell that L 30 gear
for a resonable price. Or keep it, because I would actually need it later.

The solution: "don't PL" they say. Bullsh*t, I reply. When everyone does it and all your
friends jump to 50 in a day or two, and only I sit in sploshae, imagine the fun I have. "
Quote:
Quoted Text


thank you I am very glad someone pointed something extremely important which is the "experience through the games levels" and not "endgame only"

this was one of the greatest things about ff11(sorry for bringing it in) but I never felt the need to rush asap to the endgame because there was always something to do no matter what level you were, not to mention exploring to places where people normally didn't go camp and have a blast with random parties.

I am sad to see people say that "let them PL" what you guys fail to understand its that it creates a ton of problems which were observable even within the game as soon as it started such as:

1)no one bothering to gear up in lower levels/craft anything/lack of economy because there was absolutely no point in using them when you could "afk" do absolutely nothing and hit 30 in 30-45 minutes. This "afk" leveling is basically almost like botting but more manual labor for a single person training people or leeches.

2)there is absolutely no kind of accomplishment felt for getting levels like someone pointed out, when you get a level its like "o i got level who cares", the game was so abused that i literally saw some friends on the server who played since beta and start and only had maybe 3 max class at cap and out of nowhere within 2-3 days get every single thing maxed out this is a huge problem.

3)sorry for another ff11 reference but:
by making things challenging it motivates the people to play more which actually = more money for SE in the long run, not to mention people will enjoy the game more such as:
my fondest memory in ff11 was when i obtained my af armor for my dragoon which took me 3 hours just to find a key in a extremely dangerous area, i felt extremely glad and proud when my 2 friends and I trio'ed the area and fought difficult nm's which we were rewarded respectfully. Id wear that pile of crap af like if it was the rarest thing in the game lol. good times.

anyways to cut it short its a dam shame the way this game is going and i am glad i am not alone on this boat.

P.S: bad example but its the quickest thing i found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImrGLGJRL9c

i hope they move away from a AoE no strategy spam fest in to a more tactical approach.

Edited, Mar 9th 2012 11:32pm by KingAlkaiser
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#21 Mar 10 2012 at 4:38 AM Rating: Decent
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It's pretty clear to me what Yoshi-P's philosophy is.

Leveling has lost a lot of it's value with the recent changes. In turn, leveling as fast as possible has lost a lot of it's value as well. The main point here is that when leveling is hardly important in the big picture of things, powerleveling (while possible to do) is not really important in the big picture either.

Most MMO's allow for pretty efficient powerleveling tactics, but they are not used so widely that it would affect game balance in any meaningful way. Why? Because people don't have the need to powerlevel and rather enjoy the game as-is. Leveling isn't the end-all activity, everything else you can do is (while doing them you also level up naturally).

If leveling isn't in the spotlight people simply have no urge to level faster.
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#22 Mar 10 2012 at 4:43 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm on board with everything in this statement. In my opinion Abyssea ruined XI. It destroyed any need to experience most of the content implemented during the 8 previous years of expansions and game development.


The guy in charge of this game right now had a major role in the creation of Abyssea, it's no suprise he is taking this game in a similar direction and making leveling and other things more casual friendly. I wish he was back on XI honestly, Tanaka is your hardcore > all and I'm so sick of the last year of his horrible updates I quit a game I've been playing uninterupted for nearly 8 years.

The thing that killed XI was not abyssea, it was removing the guy that made abyssea and losing the ideas of content he had to follow it. Tanaka is a ****** and has no idea wtf he is doing, can't believe he still pulls a salary.

Edited, Mar 10th 2012 7:06am by Runespider
#23 Mar 10 2012 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
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FFXI was ten years ago, stop drawing comparisons and saying "how awesome it was" - do you know what my BRD AF was like in FFXI? It was absolutely awful - getting camped on for keys and chests, getting murdered by Yagudo trains... I skipped my AF because it was too time consuming to do and was an absolute disaster.

Yesterday I did WHM AF in FFXIV - took about 4-5 hours total poking along and it was an absolute blast. Had to navigate some dangerous areas with high level mobs (Ever meet a Guardian of the Grove? Had to wear a diaper for that); do a dungeon run, meet new people to kill some NMs and then do the final fight. Nobody in my party spoke any English other then 1 person who would tell me when it was my turn to teleport and we did the whole thing together and it was really, really fun.

And power leveling is an old rant, just drop it. I see shouts on Selbina all day long for parties and they are fun. Make friends, make a static. Worried about low level gear? Make a thread about crafting, not about power leveling - because when you have to make 50 belts to level up the problem isn't people don't buy the gear - it's that there's 30,000 belts and 10,000 players. Crafting was fixed a bit this patch I hear, a lot of people are talking up the new system. I buy level appropriate gear - I see people in the same gear I'm wearing... so a few hundred of people skip level ranges? Who cares? 10x the amount of people that power level already have all 50s anyway because they've been playing since launch. Are we ranting at them for abusing the absurd Levequest boon to make millions of gil and get 50s just as fast as power leveling?

There's plenty of valid issues with the game - this is not one of them. Go advocate something important that is broken... like... armor clipping.

#24 Mar 10 2012 at 12:43 PM Rating: Excellent
Runespider wrote:
Quote:
I'm on board with everything in this statement. In my opinion Abyssea ruined XI. It destroyed any need to experience most of the content implemented during the 8 previous years of expansions and game development.


The guy in charge of this game right now had a major role in the creation of Abyssea, it's no suprise he is taking this game in a similar direction and making leveling and other things more casual friendly. I wish he was back on XI honestly, Tanaka is your hardcore > all and I'm so sick of the last year of his horrible updates I quit a game I've been playing uninterupted for nearly 8 years.

The thing that killed XI was not abyssea, it was removing the guy that made abyssea and losing the ideas of content he had to follow it. Tanaka is a ****** and has no idea wtf he is doing, can't believe he still pulls a salary.

Edited, Mar 10th 2012 7:06am by Runespider


Ya, Abyssea was fun, so much fun in fact I logged on a ton to go through it. The problem is, most people got through it all and in not much time (by mmo standards), then we were left with Voidwatch...great. So instead of taking Abyssea and building on that with another expansion, or whatever, they regressed back to old ways of obtaining gear that had turned so many people off. Even Dynamis, to me, the changes were fantastic and I enjoyed it a great deal more. Only issue with it was the once day entrance (which is fine for currency, etc). So again, they took something slow and boring and gave it some life and once again brought more people in.

If you don't do Voidwatch, you basically repeat Abyssea, to earn gear to be... better at Abbysea, yay. They need to add more fast paced events with decent drop rates and maybe add a new expansion pack with story to it. ****, modify sky to be able to spam the **** out of gods and up their level and make them drop new gear. They've revamped older events, why not do them all with more faster paced action. All my friends came back for Abyssea, we beat the **** out of it, then left shortly there after, coincidence?

I'm still of the thought that, SE wanted Abyssea to be XI's last hurrah before people migrated to XIV. When XIV flopped, they said "Oh ****!, now what?"
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#25 Mar 11 2012 at 2:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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EmotionBlues wrote:
And power leveling is an old rant, just drop it. I see shouts on Selbina all day long for parties and they are fun. Make friends, make a static. Worried about low level gear? Make a thread about crafting, not about power leveling - because when you have to make 50 belts to level up the problem isn't people don't buy the gear - it's that there's 30,000 belts and 10,000 players. Crafting was fixed a bit this patch I hear, a lot of people are talking up the new system. I buy level appropriate gear - I see people in the same gear I'm wearing... so a few hundred of people skip level ranges? Who cares? 10x the amount of people that power level already have all 50s anyway because they've been playing since launch. Are we ranting at them for abusing the absurd Levequest boon to make millions of gil and get 50s just as fast as power leveling?

There's plenty of valid issues with the game - this is not one of them. Go advocate something important that is broken... like... armor clipping.


You might not view power leveling in its current form as a problem, but attempting to downplay its effects to those who view it as bad game design isn't going to work. Your arguments, which are based on what you seem to have observed hinges on the assumption that it is not very widespread, therefore it is not a problem. I could come back with some experience of my own, telling you that whenever a member of my former linkshell needed to level a new class for whatever reason, they'd just have other members power level it every time to skip the process (which, by the way, would be the truth).

Crafting requiring a ton of items to level up is an issue in itself, I'll give you that. Still, I'm not sure if that's justification for another problem that can at best slightly damage the low level economy further, and at worst greatly damage it further. If there happens to be a decent amount of demand for that gear, someone is going to be buying and selling it. When I crafted, I sold most of my goods to NPCs but the items I did sell to players sold for a pretty decent price and helped me to recoup my losses. Today, I'm sure the market would be far more oversaturated, but more people buying low level equipment means more people pulling in some kind of profit and feeling like they can actually participate in the economy. An oversaturated market may not be optimal, but it beats a dead one where vendoring almost all low level items is required.

Then there's the issue of people who find enjoyment in pushing the bar and really trying to maximize the potential of themselves and their group. Where in a more balanced method of leveling up, players might try to prepare their best skills, find the best locations, and just generally play the game well, people like that are now reduced to not really needing anything of this sort.

Most importantly, I'm wondering exactly what effect power leveling is supposed to have as a game design choice. Is leveling supposed to be in any way an important feature of the game? Is reaching level 50 meant to be an achievement? Should learning your class at all be a requirement in reaching the max level in this game? If power leveling is meant to be a part of this game, I can only assume the answer to all of these questions is an emphatic "no." Which is fine, leveling up is not necessarily a requirement in what it takes to have a good game. But then I do have one question left, being, why power leveling? Of all the fast track to 50 methods possible, why should going afk while a friend beats on mobs for a few hours be the best method of leveling up? Why not defeating powerful mobs in a group appropriate for your level? Even an event friendly to both solo and groups, such as an FFXI campaign battle style setting where players can go to down and contribute to the best of their abilities, being rewarded in the process. Maybe have a series of storyline quests and missions available that let you hit 50 and see a classic Final Fantasy style story unfold in the process. Just something that involves actually playing the game.



Edited, Mar 11th 2012 4:50am by Susanoh
#26 Mar 12 2012 at 8:14 AM Rating: Good
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why should going afk while a friend beats on mobs for a few hours be the best method of leveling up?
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and this is my greatest gripe with it in my opinion, people "earning" max class levels while doing absolutely nothing or not contributing in absolutely no way and being rewarded for it. This is why i was using the analogy with using bot programs where you don't do anything.

I wouldn't mind PL as much if they made it like ff11 (sorry for trowing it in again) where the high level player can not kill things for you but they can aid you in getting enemy links/trains/aggro and heal or buff your party but you have to earn your own kill anyways.

right now its pretty much ****** friendly, and it sucks when people play the game and other players are doing the exact same things/being rewarded for not playing the game.
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#27 Mar 12 2012 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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EmotionBlues wrote:
There's plenty of valid issues with the game - this is not one of them. Go advocate something important that is broken... like... armor clipping.


An issue dealing the core progress methodology in a role playing game being intentionally subverted and relegated to immaterial and the resulting impact it has on obfuscating all content created for which, being not a valid complaint compared to a purely minor aesthetical issue? You and I have vastly different opinions of what constitutes "broken" in an MMORPG.


Edited, Mar 12th 2012 10:36am by Whales
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#28 Mar 12 2012 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
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I'm surprised in the midst of all this powerleveling talk, no one mentioned guildleves or rested bonus.

With the changes to the system, a powerlevel is no longer "necessary" to get to 50 quickly. I get 800-1000 EXP a kill, and my friend was able to get from 48-50 Thaumaturge in an hour via leves with rested bonus on.
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#29 Mar 12 2012 at 3:59 PM Rating: Default
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It's easy to learn your job when power leveled to 40. Do strongholds from 40-45 in a group. And then do 45-50 solo doing company leves. I suggest 45-50 doing solo as it's easier to learn what works and what doesn't, elemental weaknesses, ability toggling, combos, mp management, the list goes on. The only thing to rely on is yourself. Do the leves solo at 2 stars (+3 levels above you) and it becomes a fun challenge with lots of oh **** moments. No one to raise or help bail ya out. It really gets you into the automatic mindset to deal with situations. It will make you such a better player.

I've did 45-50 on lancer and conjurer and am doing 40-50 on monk and thaumaturge. It really does help. And I'm doing the whole solo route on Archer, so far Level 29.

The level 1-40 grind is so **** boring. Spamming the same leves gets close to crafting boredom, not as bad but close. Wish there was a large PVE event that lasted 1-3 hours, with goals that gave more rewards for completion, with good experience per kill, that was extremely fun with randomness so it doesn't become boring.
#30 Mar 13 2012 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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This might come off sounding like a Hitler. But powerleveling has no place in mmos or single player games. Allowing loopholes to bypass or shorten content is detrimental to a subscription based mmo. The goal is to keep players paying in installments. It's not a passive entertainment. If subscribers are not interested enough to play through content the traditional way. Then SE has more bigger problems on it's hands than bypass options. And if things are that bad. There should just be a pay to cap option like WoW is currently offering. At least by purchasing it, you don't affect other players leveling experience.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/122/1220230p1.html
#31 Mar 13 2012 at 4:51 PM Rating: Decent
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KingAlkaiser wrote:
and this is my greatest gripe with it in my opinion, people "earning" max class levels while doing absolutely nothing or not contributing in absolutely no way and being rewarded for it. This is why i was using the analogy with using bot programs where you don't do anything.

I wouldn't mind PL as much if they made it like ff11 (sorry for trowing it in again) where the high level player can not kill things for you but they can aid you in getting enemy links/trains/aggro and heal or buff your party but you have to earn your own kill anyways.

right now its pretty much ****** friendly, and it sucks when people play the game and other players are doing the exact same things/being rewarded for not playing the game.


Thing is, FFXI turns 10 this year. Powerleveling is a different ball game over there because the foundation of building up a new character has long been established and dealt with.

FFXIV is a new MMO which needs to connect to new players experiencing the game for the first time. Powerleveing isn't a problem. It's a symptom of greater issue: That there isn't really anything worth stopping to enjoy before 50. And that's tragic, because pre-endgame is where you should be connecting new players with the game. What's worse is that if you don't enjoy the content at 50, either, (and let's face it, it's mostly a "gear grind" of little consequence) there's nothing holding you to this game whatsoever.
#32 Mar 13 2012 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
FFXIV is a new MMO


Almost one and a half years old is not new in any stretch of the imagination.

And as to the people that think Tanaka coming back would somehow "save" FFXIV? You *DO* realize he's the major reason the game is as terrible as it was (and still is at the core), or do you simply wish to hate on Yoshi-P because hating has been the in ever since the 800 pound gorilla came along?

Edited, Mar 14th 2012 12:31am by Viertel
#33 Mar 13 2012 at 11:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Viertel wrote:
Xoie wrote:
FFXIV is a new MMO


Almost one and a half years old is not new in any stretch of the imagination.


It's new to the PS3, and in a sense the new engine, game world, client and server makes it new to the PC as well. The new players coming for 2.0 are make-or-break for FFXIV, so it needs to be tailor made for them, or there's no future for anyone in Eorzea.
#34 Mar 14 2012 at 1:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
Viertel wrote:
Xoie wrote:
FFXIV is a new MMO


Almost one and a half years old is not new in any stretch of the imagination.


It's new to the PS3, and in a sense the new engine, game world, client and server makes it new to the PC as well. The new players coming for 2.0 are make-or-break for FFXIV, so it needs to be tailor made for them, or there's no future for anyone in Eorzea.


With all due respect 2.0 is more akin to an expansion, than a new game, the game world is the same, it is the same lore, same battle system etc etc, sure new and more shinny engine/client, but until we see what the client and engine will be like, there is no sure way to say if it will be an improvement or not, SE make's bad engines for PC, that is just a fact of life, look at FME, TLR, FFXIV, they cant code for PC for ****, but who knows maybe they get their stuff right this time around, i certainly hope they market the game as a new game, but their PR department sucks too so who knows, maybe they get a hint, and drop a 10-day trial 10 day's before 2.0 launches kinda like an early release, to get a good flow of new players into the game.

Also please SE fix your crafting system, nobody likes a second job of a mini-game make it fun, and less time consuming.
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#35 Mar 14 2012 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
Viertel wrote:
Xoie wrote:
FFXIV is a new MMO


Almost one and a half years old is not new in any stretch of the imagination.


It's new to the PS3, and in a sense the new engine, game world, client and server makes it new to the PC as well. The new players coming for 2.0 are make-or-break for FFXIV, so it needs to be tailor made for them, or there's no future for anyone in Eorzea.


This statement I believe is true. Not for me, more so for my husband. He's not much of a gamer, he plays for me, however at the same time I want him to enjoy his game play, if he's not enjoying his game play, I will not subject him to something he doesn't like at all. XI he LOVED and still loves. FFXIV, he's only giving it another shot for me at 2.o. So for players who got the game and hated it and moved on...yes...2.o is a huge make or break for this game IMO.

I'll be lucky if I can get my IRL relatives and friends who are gamers to give it another shot :/
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#36 Mar 14 2012 at 6:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:

With all due respect 2.0 is more akin to an expansion, than a new game, the game world is the same, it is the same lore, same battle system etc etc, sure new and more shinny engine/client


This is rather ironic. There's no way for a game to change more than when the engine it runs on is completely replaced. In FFXIV's case it doesn't even end there, when stuff like the server architechture, maps and UI is also getting replaced, all core mechanics.

If you think that the difference between how WoW plays and XIV plays make them completely different entities, that's the difference to expect from the current version and 2.0. The performance boost alone will make a night and day difference in general gameplay and feel.

Maybe they won't make it, but Yoshida is aiming for no less. Maybe the higher execs don't know **** but Yoshida does.
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#37 Mar 15 2012 at 12:51 AM Rating: Default
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Correct me if i'm wrong but the engine per say, is still the same just a modded version of the current one, or i'm i wrong ?
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#38 Mar 15 2012 at 2:38 AM Rating: Good
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This is rather ironic. There's no way for a game to change more than when the engine it runs on is completely replaced. In FFXIV's case it doesn't even end there, when stuff like the server architechture, maps and UI is also getting replaced, all core mechanics.


Well, at least that's what they want you to believe in >.>/

Just like, you know, those free company warships,
the rocket-launchers and wedding cakes from the trailer,
patch schedules, and, in general, the awesomeness of
all the stuff that waits !!!*just around the corner*!!!.

Expect less, and you'll be more positively surprised
when they deviate from your expectations ^^
#39 Mar 15 2012 at 3:41 AM Rating: Decent
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KingAlkaiser wrote:
hello Its been a while since i roamed the forums after i quit ff14 due to people abusing the crap out of power leveling during some patch ago, anyways i was wondering:

Edited, Mar 8th 2012 4:07pm by KingAlkaiser



You quit just because of that? If you are prepared to quit a game over that then I wouldnt bother returning.
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#40 Mar 15 2012 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
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You quit just because of that? If you are prepared to quit a game over that then I wouldnt bother returning.

I can not speak for him, but:
yes, for me the whole PL crap was the final drop that made them spill my beans.

Though I am not sure whether this is a correct English expression.
#41 Mar 15 2012 at 6:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
You quit just because of that? If you are prepared to quit a game over that then I wouldnt bother returning.

I can not speak for him, but:
yes, for me the whole PL crap was the final drop that made them spill my beans.

Though I am not sure whether this is a correct English expression.

Spilling beans generally involves telling a secret.

You could always go with the classic "the straw that broke the camel's back"
#42 Mar 15 2012 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
You quit just because of that? If you are prepared to quit a game over that then I wouldnt bother returning.

I can not speak for him, but:
yes, for me the whole PL crap was the final drop that made them spill my beans.

Though I am not sure whether this is a correct English expression.


I believe you're looking for the expression, "the straw that broke the camel's back."

"Spilling the beans" implies you're confessing a wrongdoing or giving away a secret.
#43 Mar 15 2012 at 6:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lonix wrote:
KingAlkaiser wrote:
hello Its been a while since i roamed the forums after i quit ff14 due to people abusing the crap out of power leveling during some patch ago, anyways i was wondering:

Edited, Mar 8th 2012 4:07pm by KingAlkaiser



You quit just because of that? If you are prepared to quit a game over that then I wouldnt bother returning.


It's really not difficult to see why one would quit over this. With the majority of my linkshell going the route of power leveling (and the close friends who likely would have preferred other methods already having left), this game becomes a quick zerg to end game. The challenge of finding interesting ways to maximize experience points is gone because anything short of PL exp is handicapping yourself. It's an entirely drastic change that you simply cannot trivialize. Imagine if you could have power leveled someone to 75 in a day in FFXI during the Zilart/CoP days, the way the game was played would have been turned upside down.
#44 Mar 15 2012 at 7:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:

Well, at least that's what they want you to believe in >.>/

Just like, you know, those free company warships,
the rocket-launchers and wedding cakes from the trailer,
patch schedules, and, in general, the awesomeness of
all the stuff that waits !!!*just around the corner*!!!.

Expect less, and you'll be more positively surprised
when they deviate from your expectations ^^


I believe that what I said is the bare minimum, and I believe that Yoshida (and even the execs) are aware of this.

Either way I am no longer emotionally attached, so whether the expectations are met or not is not a real concern to me.
So far so good.
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#45 Mar 16 2012 at 11:45 AM Rating: Excellent
Stopped playing quite awhile ago. PL has clearly hurt the population. Those who said "Just don't PL if you don't like it" clearly never understood the effect it would inevitably have on the entire game.

Of course, fixing PL'ing doesn't make parties easy to create/find, and doesn't actually make the grind content any more fun or challenging.

If the only way they can find to improve the first 45 levels of the game is to allow players to skip it, then the re-release of FFXIV will be a whisper in the wind.

#46 Mar 16 2012 at 4:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
Stopped playing quite awhile ago. PL has clearly hurt the population. Those who said "Just don't PL if you don't like it" clearly never understood the effect it would inevitably have on the entire game.


I agree that powerleveling is not a good mechanic to rely on in an MMO meant to appeal to new players. However, I also think powerleveling is an "okay" stopgap for the time being. Allow me to explain.

When people first began their rush to 50, there were plenty of other people in the same boat. You could go it alone, but there was always the option of teaming up with other people at similar levels in camps across the game world. Today, if you to try starting out for the first time, you'd find yourself very much alone in low level areas. Most players are in endgame linkshells by now, working on their gear builds.

So powerleveling is fine by me just for the sake of getting new players caught up with where most of the population is currently... for now. Otherwise, you're condemning people just getting started to a lonely journey before they get to socialize with anyone.

If 2.0 is going to continue the tradition of powerleveling, however, instead of providing engaging, sociable, low level game content that's currently lacking, I'm seriously going to question the future of FFXIV. I mean, what's the point of having levels if you're just going to skip over them all in a day?
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