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This game is a utter joke.. seriously.Follow

#1 Mar 08 2012 at 11:25 PM Rating: Default
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So the new jobs just came out, people are already in full af.. wtf is square doing?

Leveling dow/dom jobs is also way to fast, i went 19 to 26 in not even 2 hours in a non-pl party, what happened to ff11 pre-abbysea leveling? when you actually felt some sense of accomplishment after a level? now its a worse than world of warcraft joke. Are they going to fix the obscene dow/dom leveling speeds at all?
#2 Mar 09 2012 at 12:05 AM Rating: Decent
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People say leveling and the sense of accomplishment is an outdated concept in MMORPGs. "No one has time for grinding" and so on. The AF quests I've notice are actually challenging (final pieces at least) but it has a good storyline to compensate any short comings. Gotta face facts, MMOs are all about easy playing and casual friendly, it can't have TOO much of a challenge.
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#3 Mar 09 2012 at 12:21 AM Rating: Good
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MMOs these days are about sitting at cap feeling like you're an accomplished individual, didn't you know that? The goal is to get to the end as fast as possible (thankfully the games have been made incredibly easy now) so that you can 1.) be the best ever in an increasingly simplistic and streamlined system and 2.) complain about there not being enough at the end.
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#4 Mar 09 2012 at 1:09 AM Rating: Good
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I actually subbed to see what the jobs and gear would be like. Seeing that many people with full AF equipped made me regret the $9.99 I just spent.
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#5 Mar 09 2012 at 1:12 AM Rating: Good
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I have been saying it for a week, "if the patch drops on Thursday and everyone is in full AF by the weekend I will be disappointed" well I am disappointed, the patch wasn't even 3 hours old...

That said, I AM having fun again doing stuff ^^ I just wish the stuff I was doing wasn't killing mid level NMs for the 10th time and doing DH again...

Edited, Mar 9th 2012 2:14am by Yelta
#6 Mar 09 2012 at 2:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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The AF wasn't meant to be hard to get, nor does it have any stats that stand out compared to materia'd gear. I think you guys got the wrong impression about the value of the gear.

If you want hard-to-get gear, you want the Darklight Gear that drops from the new raids and is considerably better than the AF gear. And no, I haven't seen anyone walking around with Darklight yet, let alone even do the raids for a win.

Edited, Mar 9th 2012 12:07am by UltKnightGrover
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#7 Mar 09 2012 at 5:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Scyris wrote:
now its a worse than world of warcraft joke.


World of Warcraft is an excellent game and has some of the only endgame that's actually worth doing. FFXIV has always been far, far worse than WoW in every single possible way. The graphics may be shiny, but they also eat $1500 PCs for breakfast on DX9. Please keep your references accurate and comparable.

I want FFXIV to be a good game too, but don't make moronic statements please.

Edited, Mar 9th 2012 6:38am by Transmigration
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#8 Mar 09 2012 at 6:26 AM Rating: Good
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You will always have the hardcore people that grind the **** out of games. Diablo 2, would have lvl 90s in a day after Ladder reset. And so on. I obviously can not tell you how to enjoy a game... but if you play a game and are bothered by the fact OTHER people have blasted through content, then you are probably doing it wrong. Last I checked, a game was meant to entertain the player the way they want it to. I personally don't know what you are doing to level up so fast, I might be a noob and just not know but I sure as **** can't level that fast. It might be because I take it slow, but that's just my personal preferance not to rush stuff. It'll be a good bit of time before 2.0 comes out anyways, this is essentially just a transition period, since they are pretty much in a hurry to get content out, a lot of research and factors could be skipped initially. Due to the fact they are redoing the whole entire game now, I now have confidence SE will have content for both Casual and Hardcore so Hardcore players can't have the best **** over night.

But in other words, Chill out brah. It's just a game, play it how you want and don't worry how others play it. You're not paying for their experience.
#9 Mar 09 2012 at 7:09 AM Rating: Decent
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It's AF, it isn't end game gear (compared it to darklight gear and /laugh) it reminds me alot about XI AF questline, and I'm having a blast doing them, sure the "coffer" ones are a bit simple and could use something mroe to them and going into DH isn't very exciting, but the final quest boss fights has so far been great.

AF is supposed to be somewhat accessable, this isn't WoW and some silly tier set grinding, and saying that I'm very much a supporter on having hardcore and challenging content in XIV, but put the challenge where it shold be not on the gear that everyone is supposed to have as baseline gear.
Bonus points that alot of casuals will cry their eyes out cause alot of the quests require 4-8 man(level 50) groups. : >
#10 Mar 09 2012 at 7:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Exolis wrote:
You're not paying for their experience.



I couldn't wholeheartedly agree any more. I am a very new player and have a lot to learn about the game and it's nuances but I'm enjoying every step of the way. I could care less if someone has the time to complete new content as soon as it's released. I don't have that time anymore and I enjoy the time that I do get to spend on the game. I am definitely entertained and I have my own goals which I will reach at my own pace.
#11 Mar 09 2012 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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At this point I'm starting to believe some people wanted the AF quests to require hours long item farming and four primal fights in a row for gear that isn't even that great (see Darklight gear, as others have pointed.)

Chill out, seriously.
#12 Mar 09 2012 at 8:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm one of those who think grinding mobs as a primary leveling mechanic is a little outdated but still wouldn't mind a substantial journey to the level cap. It's no longer the early days of MMOs, players aren't forced to play a game where we go outside and clobber rabbits for hours at a time in order to progress.

The easy method to getting around this problem is to make the leveling process go fairly quickly and focus mostly on end game content, but it's not the only way. If they make a truly interesting content to play through and progress along the way, people can still enjoy the leveling process. Whether that content is in the form of quests (and not all "kill the field mice, they're eating my crops" type quests but truly interesting quests with some depth and exploration to them), missions, storyline content, events, fights, or something to keep the player interested. Some MMOs and nearly ever good single player RPG manages to keep people engaged throughout rather than just at end game, so it's not impossible.

At the same time, if they do want to make a game where it's fairly easy to hit the cap and make all of the content designed for top level players, I'm alright with that too, it just shifts the content from one end to the other (although it does create a few problems with the way they designed DoH/DoL IMO, but that's a whole other can of worms). The most important thing is that the content that players want to enjoy playing is there, and that you don't have to spend a ton of time participating in activities you don't want to be a part of in order to participate in ones that you do.
#13 Mar 09 2012 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
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Susanoh wrote:
I'm one of those who think grinding mobs as a primary leveling mechanic is a little outdated but still wouldn't mind a substantial journey to the level cap. It's no longer the early days of MMOs, players aren't forced to play a game where we go outside and clobber rabbits for hours at a time in order to progress.


I agree.

Susanoh wrote:
The most important thing is that the content that players want to enjoy playing is there, and that you don't have to spend a ton of time participating in activities you don't want to be a part of in order to participate in ones that you do.


Very well put.
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#14 Mar 09 2012 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know what people are talking about. I have every job to 50, and I logged in 5 minutes after the servers were up, and used all my anima, played for 5 hours, and still haven't finished Pld. Straight pushing through these quests can be done in a single night for 1 job (I ran into a 1 1/2 hour delay getting a pt together to go into the Vale). And if you have a group of people to party with together, you might have gotten 2 done, but these quests are by no stretch easy, or quick.

At level 50, the first 3 quests are a little time consuming, but not bad. The level of the quests are staggered, so as people level up, they can get abilities/armor.

After the 3rd quest, it's party time. They can not be completed outside a party of 4 (ussually 8) level 45s.

To call this game a joke over the AF quests is to take it completely out of context. These are full stories, cutscenes, background on characters and the world.

You also need to take into consideration that they are adding stuff that many people felt should have been there from the start. With the content that is now in the game, getting started in it will feel more in-depth. You have your first teir quests. You have your class quests to 36, you have your storyline quests to 36. Then you have your Grand Company and your Job quests to 45-50.

There are stages of growth being built into the game. Things to do other than endless grinding.

Now, judging the fact that most people currently playing have one or more level 50 jobs, and there are armies of people lining up to do these quests, and that they got done with them in a day. You had set yourself up for disappointment, not on SE's part, but your expectations of the playerbase. Of course people are going to want to get stuff done as fast as they can. I want my Pld ready for the dungeon raids. That means I need to get all the abilities. Once I have that done, I will start working on other jobs, but, I can start doing raids immediately.

And while most of the AF armor is moderate armor, and we have outpaced it. Consider the level in which people will get the armor if the game does restore it's player base. It will be some of the best armor in the game for them. In time they will outgrow it, and shift to new armor.

Even now, the Pld armorset is better in many situations than any crafted armor. However, I will keep my +1 double materia armor for situations where I want higher def, or higher attack, or don't need as much enmity, or MP, or when I play as Gld.

I think this whole issue with hating the fact that people have finished in a day with 1-2 armorsets is pretty silly. People will chew through anything put infront of them that they can. And there are people who are stuck on the 3rd+ quest because they couldn't keep up with other players, or weren't on fast enough (my linkshell was already on the third set of quests by the time I even logged in, and seriously I logged in ~5-10 minutes after the hour).
#15 Mar 09 2012 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Scyris wrote:
So the new jobs just came out, people are already in full af.. wtf is square doing?

Leveling dow/dom jobs is also way to fast, i went 19 to 26 in not even 2 hours in a non-pl party, what happened to ff11 pre-abbysea leveling? when you actually felt some sense of accomplishment after a level? now its a worse than world of warcraft joke. Are they going to fix the obscene dow/dom leveling speeds at all?


I have a question...Did you ever find Uldah?
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#16 Mar 09 2012 at 10:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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The hardcore gamers will have all the new content beat before the end of next week. I, the casual gamer, on the other hand will take the next 12-24 weeks to complete all the job quests, get my room in the inn, defeat the new dungeons and level my remaining classes to 50.

While I don't disagree in principle that leveling is too easy. I do think that unless they add significantly more low to mid level content making drastic increases to the leveling curve is a mistake. At this point, Yoshi is trying to make it possible for players to all be on the same level. Finding parties has been hard enough at lower levels because of the small server populations and advanced level of most of the current players.

I do recommend he add more low to mid level content but the chore then becomes convincing the older playerbase they haven't been robbed and/or it is worth starting a whole new character to experience all the content again.

Edited, Mar 9th 2012 11:15am by kainsilv
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#17 Mar 09 2012 at 10:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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kainsilv wrote:
The hardcore gamers will have all the new content beat before the end of next week. I, the casual gamer, on the other hand will take the next 12-24 weeks to complete all the job quests, get my room in the inn, defeat the new dungeons and level my remaining classes to 50.

While I don't disagree in principle that leveling is too easy. I do think that unless they add significantly more low to mid level content making drastic increases to the leveling curve is a mistake. At this point, Yoshi is trying to make it possible for players to all be on the same level. Finding parties has been hard enough at lower levels because of the small server populations and advanced level of most of the current players.

I do recommend he add more low to mid level content but the chore then becomes convincing the older playerbase they haven't been robbed and/or it is worth starting a whole new character to experience all the content again.

Edited, Mar 9th 2012 11:15am by kainsilv


And this is why I think the Job quests are good. They are helping to fill that gap for people pre-endgame.

The patch has some entry level quests that take 10 seconds to complete, and are fun to do (the Inn quests are a riot). And some mid-level quests in the beginning of the jobs, working all the way up to end-game.

While still adding two end-game dungeons.

All and all, other than the whole move cancels casting that I still need to get used to, I have yet to find anything in this patch that actually is a true negative to the game. So far, everything I have seen has been an improvement.
#18 Mar 09 2012 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Transmigration wrote:
World of Warcraft is an excellent game and has some of the only endgame that's actually worth doing.


You mean "worth doing" insofar as, if you don't do it right away, it will be nerfed down to stupidity and quickly subsumed by the next, newest dungeon two months later that features the next, newest reskins?
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#19 Mar 09 2012 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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I dont think AF was intended to be extremely difficult. I look at it as S-E just putting some meat on the bone until 2.0 comes out. The same goes with Ifrit/Moogle. I've read Yoshida's letters, interviews and future plans of this game and judging by his demeanor, I trust him annd besides, the game is still like 9 bucks for download and Ishgard came out. I don't think the real "endgame" is even out yet.

Also, I just want to say a personal "@#%^ you" to the people who use that **** excuse "oh but thats how MMOs are now-a-days and every MMO has it" blah blah blah. Why does THIS game have to the bad characteristics of other MMOs? I really hope yoshida can discern between the good and bad advice the remaining players say. FFXIV 2.0 better take the cake of all other MMOs and maybe put like Jessica Alba in their commercials.

Edited, Mar 9th 2012 11:42am by VitaminD2112

Edited, Mar 9th 2012 11:43am by VitaminD2112
#20 Mar 09 2012 at 11:13 AM Rating: Good
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VitaminD2112 wrote:
Also, I just want to say a personal "@#%^ you" to the people who use that **** excuse "oh but thats how MMOs are now-a-days and every MMO has it" blah blah blah. Why does THIS game have to the bad characteristics of other MMOs?


I agree with the principle of this, although I wouldn't go so far as to label them "bad" - it's completely subjective. While you and I might not enjoy it, others do and there's nothing wrong with that.

If I want to play an MMO that ascribes to current MMORPG design and gameplay theory I have hundreds of choices with more and more entering the market each month. Where are the online RPG gaming options for those of us who want more of that pre-2005, FFXI/EQ type gameplay? And I don't necessarily mean grinding rabbits solo for months on end to gain three levels, but where are the MMORPGs that place emphasis and sustained gameplay on the leveling process instead of casting it aside as a casual affair, to be completed at a fast-paced and leisurely actively only to relegate the bulk of the character progression to end-game carrot on stick gear grinds and gimmicky dungeon boss fights?

I had far more fun grinding crabs in Valkurm Dunes chewing forward to level 20 and the next mobhunt zone than I ever did in other MMOs in which I had to memorize that when the boss pulls out his purple flag you need to stand on the red square or that you don't cast heals when he shifts behind the second platform because that means it's opposite day and if you don't click the green orb he'll turn into Rip Taylor and shower the entire raid with confetti that removes all your hotkey and keybind presets.


Edited, Mar 9th 2012 12:14pm by Whales
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#21 Mar 09 2012 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Now despite many have already received their first full set or AF, are the quests having some form of story or subplot that ties into main story? Obviously this will differ based on jobs I'm assuming.
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#22 Mar 09 2012 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Now despite many have already received their first full set or AF, are the quests having some form of story or subplot that ties into main story? Obviously this will differ based on jobs I'm assuming.


Each storylne has it's own self contained plot, similar to the regular class quests. At least the BLM quest has no ties whatsoever with the main story or the 7th umbral era plots.
#23 Mar 09 2012 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks!
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#24 Mar 09 2012 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Whales wrote:
VitaminD2112 wrote:
Also, I just want to say a personal "@#%^ you" to the people who use that **** excuse "oh but thats how MMOs are now-a-days and every MMO has it" blah blah blah. Why does THIS game have to the bad characteristics of other MMOs?


I agree with the principle of this, although I wouldn't go so far as to label them "bad" - it's completely subjective. While you and I might not enjoy it, others do and there's nothing wrong with that.

If I want to play an MMO that ascribes to current MMORPG design and gameplay theory I have hundreds of choices with more and more entering the market each month. Where are the online RPG gaming options for those of us who want more of that pre-2005, FFXI/EQ type gameplay? And I don't necessarily mean grinding rabbits solo for months on end to gain three levels, but where are the MMORPGs that place emphasis and sustained gameplay on the leveling process instead of casting it aside as a casual affair, to be completed at a fast-paced and leisurely actively only to relegate the bulk of the character progression to end-game carrot on stick gear grinds and gimmicky dungeon boss fights?

I had far more fun grinding crabs in Valkurm Dunes chewing forward to level 20 and the next mobhunt zone than I ever did in other MMOs in which I had to memorize that when the boss pulls out his purple flag you need to stand on the red square or that you don't cast heals when he shifts behind the second platform because that means it's opposite day and if you don't click the green orb he'll turn into Rip Taylor and shower the entire raid with confetti that removes all your hotkey and keybind presets.


Edited, Mar 9th 2012 12:14pm by Whales



I beg to disagree my friend. Yes certain topics are subjective but some arent. Let's use an example of a cheeseburger from McDonalds and a cheeseburger from a 4 star restaurant. Most people with educated and mature palletes, foodies or even people with class and good taste would choose the 4 star restaurant cheeseburger over a BigMac. Yes there is nothing wrong with liking a McDonalds cheeseburger but in the end of the day, you have to be a reasonable judge of what is better overall. I remember reading some comments of when 2.0 came out and people were complaining that they LIKED the current repetitive, bland maps and didnt want new ones. Im sure most of us would agree theyre retarded. Oh but why? its their opinion and its subjective! Hey man, In life you gotta take sides. One side is always more right than the other.

Edited, Mar 9th 2012 1:40pm by VitaminD2112
#25 Mar 09 2012 at 1:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
World of Warcraft is an excellent game and has some of the only endgame that's actually worth doing.


You mean "worth doing" insofar as, if you don't do it right away, it will be nerfed down to stupidity and quickly subsumed by the next, newest dungeon two months later that features the next, newest reskins?


I think, given the context. the point was that one of these games has over 10 million players and one of these games has over 10 thousand. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to decide which one is doing it wrong.
#26 Mar 09 2012 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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Scyris wrote:
So the new jobs just came out, people are already in full af.. wtf is square doing?

Leveling dow/dom jobs is also way to fast, i went 19 to 26 in not even 2 hours in a non-pl party, what happened to ff11 pre-abbysea leveling? when you actually felt some sense of accomplishment after a level? now its a worse than world of warcraft joke. Are they going to fix the obscene dow/dom leveling speeds at all?



I'm sorry, you can't compare the leveling speed in 14 to that of WoW anymore. Considering last week Blizzard is giving away level 80 characters to get people to return to the game.

To listen to people get upset about the rate at which they get Primal gear, then to hear how people are getting AF too quickly, it's really getting to the point where the fanbase is starting to sound like a Pushme-Pullme.
#27 Mar 09 2012 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
it's really getting to the point where the fanbase is starting to sound like a Pushme-Pullme.


This is kinda why I wish the game were taken offline and then rebuilt instead of keep it online, patching it up and then doing a rerlease later. This is just my opinion, and I am most likely wrong, but it just seems like doing the rebuilding process this way maybe hurting XIV more than helping.

You have people who are playing it who absolutely love everthing that SE does.
You have people who are playing it, who are playing it, but are quite dissastisfied with how SE is patching it (you can't say they don't exist, I've seen a few on the forums who are up to their eyeballs with giving SE patience)
Then you have people who aren't playing who are watching from aside wondering if it will ever be worth while coming back.

If definately seems like the community as a whole is a push me pull me, without a doubt, and I know the community of any game maybe like this, however, those games aren't going through a rebuild process from a crashed launch :/ And...I think I'm starting to go again where we have gone on these boards before, so I'll just hush about it now.

But back to the quote...I feel this exact sentiment, and really wish and hope it will go away eventually. It would be nice that the community were very cohesive and together as opposed to being on opposite sides of spectrums here.
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#28 Mar 09 2012 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
It would be nice that the community were very cohesive and together as opposed to being on opposite sides of spectrums here.


It's an MMORPG built by a company rooted in previous generation gameplay success that has billed itself coming out of the gates as being more mainstreamed to current MMO philosophy, which is now undergoing a completely radical shift not only in gameplay mechanics but in the entire client and server architecture.

That's about as a good a recipe to attract a divided community as I've ever seen, as both sides feel like they have an opportunity to speak up about the direction of the reshaped product.

Not excusing it or making it sound like it's OK, just saying it's what we're probably going to be stuck with until well after 2.0 launches, most likely into 2.1 and beyond.
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#29 Mar 09 2012 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Whales wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:
It would be nice that the community were very cohesive and together as opposed to being on opposite sides of spectrums here.


It's an MMORPG built by a company rooted in previous generation gameplay success that has billed itself coming out of the gates as being more mainstreamed to current MMO philosophy, which is now undergoing a completely radical shift not only in gameplay mechanics but in the entire client and server architecture.
That's about as a good a recipe to attract a divided community as I've ever seen, as both sides feel like they have an opportunity to speak up about the direction of the reshaped product.

Not excusing it or making it sound like it's OK, just saying it's what we're probably going to be stuck with until well after 2.0 launches, most likely into 2.1 and beyond.



Quite Possibly.
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#30 Mar 09 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
Scyris wrote:
So the new jobs just came out, people are already in full af.. wtf is square doing?


FFXIV is becoming more and more like FFXI and thats no joke.. seriously.


Scyris wrote:
........... what happened to ff11 pre-abbysea leveling?


Consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs hopefully.


Scyris wrote:
when you actually felt some sense of accomplishment after a level?


No not accomplishment, relief (mostly for your bladder), quickly followed by despair and dread when you looked at the tnl for the next level.








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#31 Mar 09 2012 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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triplealphareaction wrote:
Scyris wrote:
when you actually felt some sense of accomplishment after a level?


No not accomplishment, relief (mostly for your bladder), quickly followed by despair and dread when you looked at the tnl for the next level.


Honest question, why did you keep playing FFXI then? If I found myself feeling despair and dread after gaining a level in FFXI, I wouldn't have kept playing as leveling up in FFXI was a major part of that game, pre-abyssea.


Edited, Mar 9th 2012 4:57pm by Whales
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#32 Mar 09 2012 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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Whales,

I get the feeling he likes to be spanked hard with a cat o nine tails. That's just my guess.
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#33 Mar 09 2012 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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What do you call a cow that doesn't give milk?

















An udder failure.



Oh, sorry I thought you wanted an Udder Joke... >.>
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#34 Mar 09 2012 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah my main issue is I like a sense of accomplishment after overcoming some obsticle, but FF14 is so **** easy of a game and leveling is way to damned fast and such that I just can't seem to get this feeling, I used to love it when I leveled in ff11, I felt accomplished. in FF14 its like "meh, gained another level big deal" because its so fast and way to easy. Was in a party on my archer and stuff was dying so fast I could barely get 2 shots off, nevermind the fact that due to the game being like 90% level based even the gladiator was out damaging me even though I had the best bow/arrows I could use for my level, just because he was a few levels higher, its kinda a stupid system. Well out damaging my auto attacks anyway, I could spam ws's alot more than him. I dunno, I just can't seem to get into ff14 at all, i'm trying too but its just not happening, the whole games experence feels pretty shallow and unintersting to me. I know you might say "Well 2.0 will be good" but ask yourself, how much of the current playerbase do you think is going to be there 9+ months from now? I'd say not very many myself.

Also the entire materia system needs to be reworked, because its fairly annoying trying to get materia on gear when you end up needing 4 diffrent crafters for your gear set. I think they need to change it to not having any req to meld, just that u need a 18+ crafter for the quest after that you can put materia on anything, or set it up so if you say have a lv 30 crafting class, you can now put materia into any item up to level 30, insted of just into items that crafter can make.
#35 Mar 09 2012 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
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Scyris,

Glad you weren't around for release, you would have been Oober ****** then. If you think it's bad now it was a complete cluster ____ then. I will agree that it does seem shallow, but I can say you started to play during a time when it is much better. If you can't get into it, then I would definately just quit until 2.o. This game has had enough bad press and mass exoduses that I would hate to see new players come in and feel like you do.

Many are sitting around until 2.o when it should hopefully be what it should have been at release. If need be, we are keeping a spot on the bench warm for you. Just don't burn yourself out to the poor of hating this game and then becoming the fan that now disdains SE cause of this.

I will say though, I do admire the fact that you did give it a shot despite what you have read.
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#36 Mar 09 2012 at 10:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Quote:
it's really getting to the point where the fanbase is starting to sound like a Pushme-Pullme.


This is kinda why I wish the game were taken offline and then rebuilt instead of keep it online, patching it up and then doing a rerlease later. This is just my opinion, and I am most likely wrong, but it just seems like doing the rebuilding process this way maybe hurting XIV more than helping.

You have people who are playing it who absolutely love everthing that SE does.
You have people who are playing it, who are playing it, but are quite dissastisfied with how SE is patching it (you can't say they don't exist, I've seen a few on the forums who are up to their eyeballs with giving SE patience)
Then you have people who aren't playing who are watching from aside wondering if it will ever be worth while coming back.

If definately seems like the community as a whole is a push me pull me, without a doubt, and I know the community of any game maybe like this, however, those games aren't going through a rebuild process from a crashed launch :/ And...I think I'm starting to go again where we have gone on these boards before, so I'll just hush about it now.

But back to the quote...I feel this exact sentiment, and really wish and hope it will go away eventually. It would be nice that the community were very cohesive and together as opposed to being on opposite sides of spectrums here.



I wouldn't say a community even exists per se. What you have is a tiny population of die hard fans, and a large population of gamers who largely see this game as a complete joke. I'd say if they wanted to boost their playerbase, they really have to revamp, not just please the current players (those will play no matter what).
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#37 Mar 09 2012 at 11:42 PM Rating: Good
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If your not in a linkshell or a warp group the new jobs just aren't worth rushing through quick.I gave up on the Dragoon quest when I burned through 60 anima in about 3 hours.The only thing I'm using from this massive patch is resting for crafting bonus.
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#38 Mar 10 2012 at 1:26 AM Rating: Excellent
It's funny to me that some people would complain about the job quests being too easy.

For the life of me, I can't even get a group together to do the first Darkhold quest, let alone the Aurum Vale quest to gather all of my armor.

If anything, these quests seem right on par with the quests in FFXI... hopefully, once the level cap for this game eventually gets lifted, I'll be able to round up the rest of my gear with just a couple of people, if it comes to that.

Edited, Mar 9th 2012 11:26pm by Thayos
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#39 Mar 10 2012 at 1:29 AM Rating: Good
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Pluelf wrote:
I wouldn't say a community even exists per se. What you have is a tiny population of die hard fans, and a large population of gamers who largely see this game as a complete joke. I'd say if they wanted to boost their playerbase, they really have to revamp, not just please the current players (those will play no matter what).


I wholeheartedly agree. I'm not saying that those with subs are completely satisfied (lord knows every patch sounds like it emerged from the bowels of **** judging from the forums), but they probably aren't going anywhere any time soon.

2.0 has to be about bringing in a whole lot of new and excited players, not focusing on keeping the few stragglers completely delighted. I'm not saying it's not important, but the bigger picture is that this is a sinking ship without new people. Jobs may seem boring to someone who has had all their classes at 50 for over a year, but to someone just starting at level 1, this could be a meaningful achievement to new players (who hopefully turn up some day).
#40 Mar 10 2012 at 4:24 AM Rating: Default
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Xoie wrote:
I think, given the context. the point was that one of these games has over 10 million players and one of these games has over 10 thousand. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to decide which one is doing it wrong.


People are still comparing WoW's total playerbase to XIV's total simultaneous logins during a certain primetime?

It is baffling what causes this, as one would assume that even an accurate comparison would get the point across.
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#41 Mar 10 2012 at 5:45 AM Rating: Default
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Pluelf wrote:
I wouldn't say a community even exists per se. What you have is a tiny population of die hard fans, and a large population of gamers who largely see this game as a complete joke. I'd say if they wanted to boost their playerbase, they really have to revamp, not just please the current players (those will play no matter what).



I would agree. It's part of why I think charging now wasn't a very good idea. I think if you're not playing you can't log in to the forums making it harder for SE to hear anything but the voices of a vocal minority (face it, most people that bought ffxiv have left currently).

And this isn't any sort of scientific measure, but I talked to two friends about the jobs and patch 1.21. These two people are very interested in ffxiv because they like MMOs and the FF series but ended up not trying because of the press and are now waiting to hear how 2.0 turns out.

To heavily paraphrase the reception of the job system one basically said "WTF?" He was most curious about archer and I think the bard with mage only abilities killed his interest in the game altogether.

The other said the system seemed overwhelming to follow the ideas and hated the idea that to be a job you had to get a total of three classes up to a decent level to be maximized in your job. Knowing full well that even being just a class was an option technically, the status quo would never allow it. So he has his doubts about giving FFXIV a shot because the entry has been set pretty high and asked if the game was being designed around hardest core of the FFXI hardcore.
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#42 Mar 10 2012 at 6:19 AM Rating: Excellent
This is going to be the issue for SE, the people with friends who get everything done in 2 seconds, and the one with no friends who can't get anything done and quits. The community is getting worse for new players cause most established shells have ridiculous admission requirements, so you come, get nothing done and quit. I know from experience cause I've quit several times for that reason alone. This is why most will wait for 2.0 and hope for new servers.
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#43 Mar 10 2012 at 6:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Yep. I also wait for 2.0 and (hopefully) a fresh start on a fresh server where not everybody is either all-50, in a linkshell of all 50s, a multibillion gil market controller or a powerleveled botcrafter (I think I covered all bases here, didn`t I?). Let those who stuck with the current game stick with themselves. I want to play with sane people.
#44 Mar 10 2012 at 6:51 AM Rating: Decent
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apapertiger wrote:
Pluelf wrote:
I wouldn't say a community even exists per se. What you have is a tiny population of die hard fans, and a large population of gamers who largely see this game as a complete joke. I'd say if they wanted to boost their playerbase, they really have to revamp, not just please the current players (those will play no matter what).



I would agree. It's part of why I think charging now wasn't a very good idea. I think if you're not playing you can't log in to the forums making it harder for SE to hear anything but the voices of a vocal minority (face it, most people that bought ffxiv have left currently).


Only people who actually play have the opportunity to give feedback on the changes? Oh the horror >_>
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#45 Mar 10 2012 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
apapertiger wrote:
Pluelf wrote:
I wouldn't say a community even exists per se. What you have is a tiny population of die hard fans, and a large population of gamers who largely see this game as a complete joke. I'd say if they wanted to boost their playerbase, they really have to revamp, not just please the current players (those will play no matter what).



I would agree. It's part of why I think charging now wasn't a very good idea. I think if you're not playing you can't log in to the forums making it harder for SE to hear anything but the voices of a vocal minority (face it, most people that bought ffxiv have left currently).


Only people who actually play have the opportunity to give feedback on the changes? Oh the horror >_>


I think they are saying SE should not have charged for this game yet. Which they should not have. Not only do they need to hear from the die hard fan base, but from those that have a more critical view, I guess is the best way I can put it, if they wish for the fanbase opinions. The critics may seem volition to some, but being that way can really help improve something. (I.e. think of teacher being critical of your work in college, you won't know what you need to work on if they don't give you appropriate feedback)
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#46 Mar 10 2012 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Only people who actually play have the opportunity to give feedback on the changes? Oh the horror >_>


Yeah, out of the 700,000 to 1,000,000 in sales you should only listen to the 19,000-25,000 devoted. #OccupyEorzea

Seriously, what I mean is if we were running this business we would be eyeing that huge chunk of people that wanted to give us their money but bailed. Then see what we could do to bring them back in. I'd still value the opinions of 19-25k but it would be secondary. I would totally agree with you if the current player base was 51% instead of 3.6% at best.

edited because i woke up way to early today.


Edited, Mar 10th 2012 11:05am by apapertiger
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#47 Mar 10 2012 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
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To be honest I wouldn't let people who didn't pay to play post either because you'd end up with forums like ZAM: Where every FFXIV hater comes to vent their pent up internet rage at the game and really accomplish nothing. The people who pay to play offer feedback because... they're actually playing the game. I wouldn't want to sort out that **** on official forums, there's a hard enough time already getting through all the whining on the official forums let alone if they were completely public again.

Every time I go looking for FFXIV info I always regret coming back here because nobody talks about the game here anymore (a select few can have a reprieve from that, I could count them on two hands) - they just talk about what's wrong with it.

Say what you will "Well FFXIV _____" this or "Blah blah this is bad" that - there's plenty of people who enjoy the game for what it is already. Just because everyone draws comparisons to "10 million people whooooa" and talks about the community (which is great on Selbina, in fact) being so small... If you actually played the game you'd see it's doing quite well at the moment. The reason you don't see those people participating in particular forums communities is because the rage QQ keeps people away. And for those who DO play and still have the same gripes at those who do not - you're entitled to that, however: A vast amount of my former LS has returned to the game at Level 1 and are having an absolute blast every time they play the game and they don't even have a Chocobo yet.

The game experience is what you make it, don't fault everyone else because you got every Discipline to 50 and played during the dark days (I did too) and the content being released gets destroyed because you've got nothing better to do with your time. For new players (and even me, with only 2 50s) the content seems quite vast and exciting. The game may be more gentle then FFXI but if that's your main complaint I can name a few really snowy hills you can walk to in the cold to catch a bus, grandpa(ma).

See you in game,
#48 Mar 10 2012 at 12:00 PM Rating: Excellent
EmotionBlues wrote:
To be honest I wouldn't let people who didn't pay to play post either because you'd end up with forums like ZAM: Where every FFXIV hater comes to vent their pent up internet rage at the game and really accomplish nothing. The people who pay to play offer feedback because... they're actually playing the game. I wouldn't want to sort out that sh*t on official forums, there's a hard enough time already getting through all the whining on the official forums let alone if they were completely public again.

Every time I go looking for FFXIV info I always regret coming back here because nobody talks about the game here anymore (a select few can have a reprieve from that, I could count them on two hands) - they just talk about what's wrong with it.

Say what you will "Well FFXIV _____" this or "Blah blah this is bad" that - there's plenty of people who enjoy the game for what it is already. Just because everyone draws comparisons to "10 million people whooooa" and talks about the community (which is great on Selbina, in fact) being so small... If you actually played the game you'd see it's doing quite well at the moment. The reason you don't see those people participating in particular forums communities is because the rage QQ keeps people away. And for those who DO play and still have the same gripes at those who do not - you're entitled to that, however: A vast amount of my former LS has returned to the game at Level 1 and are having an absolute blast every time they play the game and they don't even have a Chocobo yet.

The game experience is what you make it, don't fault everyone else because you got every Discipline to 50 and played during the dark days (I did too) and the content being released gets destroyed because you've got nothing better to do with your time. For new players (and even me, with only 2 50s) the content seems quite vast and exciting. The game may be more gentle then FFXI but if that's your main complaint I can name a few really snowy hills you can walk to in the cold to catch a bus, grandpa(ma).

See you in game,


The problem is, it's the whiners and pessimists that have gotten the game to where it is now (half functional and somewhat fun). For the most part, the official forums is now a positive place, which is good, but not what the devs need all the time. I mean, just about everything that's been complained about has been changed, or will be changed, and it's arguably been for the better. I know, the people playing are having fun, and most don't care about the others, "Just stop playing and leave us alone!". It's fine to have that attitude, but on the other side of it, this game needs to make money. You bring people back, you make more money, you keep people employed who in turn make content who then make the game even more enjoyable. If this player base doesn't increase, and drops down to just 4-8 servers, will SE even bother updating every 3-4 months, no. You want people to criticize and you want people to come back, it's as simple as that.
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#49 Mar 10 2012 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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EmotionBlues wrote:
To be honest I wouldn't let people who didn't pay to play post either because you'd end up with forums like ZAM: Where every FFXIV hater comes to vent their pent up internet rage at the game and really accomplish nothing. The people who pay to play offer feedback because... they're actually playing the game. I wouldn't want to sort out that sh*t on official forums, there's a hard enough time already getting through all the whining on the official forums let alone if they were completely public again.


To be realistic, if you only listen to the wants of the current paying player-base, you would keep catering the game more and more towards a very select and limited group of people. I am not saying these people don't matter, but they are in fact a minority. If you visit any online forum / message board, you would see most gamers (read: potential customers) scorning this game off without a second thought, it's dead to them.

I'd say what they needed to do was put the game back into a "beta" state, which is free to play, and have people that meet certain requirements fill out in-game multiple choice questionnaires about the game elements they experienced. For example, you reach GLA level 20, you get to fill out a specific survey, asking you about the abilities, ease of play, enjoyability, etc. This way people would at least feel that their opinion is going into a constructive outlet, not just the stinking pit that is the official forums. In return, you get more people playing, because suddenly their opinion matters, and the game has potential for the future (it is worth playing and investing time into). Nobody wants to flaunt e-peen for 300 people on their server, or save up Gil in a game that's not likely to have anything to spend it on.
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#50 Mar 10 2012 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
The problem is, it's the whiners and pessimists that have gotten the game to where it is now


No lol Yoshi P and his team have done that.
The whiners and pessimists are not a cohesive group they are just individuals with opinions, of which only a handful have anything of value to say. Yes SE has been guilty of fanserving with several of the changes to patches but thats just changes to 1.0 really. 2.0 is another matter and we will just have to wait and see what happens.
Thats the great thing about 2.0 because in many ways its immune to the opinions of haters or anyone else out there talking bs on internet forums, so we may actually have a good final result that isn't just for the few that are currently subbing.
Personally I reckon SE will keep going for current and former FFXI players more and more as far as 2.0 is concerned and hope the shiny graphics will do to attract the rest of the MMO fanbase. In other words what they should have done in the first place.
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#51 Mar 10 2012 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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Pluelf wrote:
EmotionBlues wrote:
To be honest I wouldn't let people who didn't pay to play post either because you'd end up with forums like ZAM: Where every FFXIV hater comes to vent their pent up internet rage at the game and really accomplish nothing. The people who pay to play offer feedback because... they're actually playing the game. I wouldn't want to sort out that sh*t on official forums, there's a hard enough time already getting through all the whining on the official forums let alone if they were completely public again.


To be realistic, if you only listen to the wants of the current paying player-base, you would keep catering the game more and more towards a very select and limited group of people. I am not saying these people don't matter, but they are in fact a minority. If you visit any online forum / message board, you would see most gamers (read: potential customers) scorning this game off without a second thought, it's dead to them.


The above few posters are all, in my opinion, making good sense, but I don't think you guys are actually disagreeing. I think the people Emotion is referring to are not the people who come onto an online forum and give constructive criticism about the game (a game that is obviously still a work in progress and is getting better by leaps and bounds under the current producer). The people he is referring to are the toxic asshats who make it clear that they plan to never play the game again, and actively try to dissuade others from even trying it. Like they have a personal vendetta with SE (which is, in itself, laughable).

When you read the posts of people who are actually playing the game currently, the vast majority contain statements such as "this game is really pretty fun now" or "I like the direction the game is headed right now and I'm excited for 2.0". They still have some criticisms of the game for sure, whether it be ease of leveling, or lack of endgame content, but it's constructive criticism and it's fair in that they are willing to recognize that their is progress being made on a game that, in all reality, is being overhauled to incorporate a new graphics engine and be played on an entirely new set of servers. This isn't as simple as changing a lightbulb...

But we still have the crew that hasn't played for 6 to 9 months, yet they still find time in their day to come post on forums for a game that they profess to hate. Like they get royalties for every venomous post they type. If an update is poorly received they revel in it, but if something is positively received they seem almost desperate to poke holes in it or otherwise **** all over it. And they always fall back on the "2.0 is going to fail anyways so why bother, get out while you can". Those are the people that Emotion is ******** about... the same people SE undoubtedly had in mind when they closed off the official forums. Why would you care about the input of people who continue to say "I'll never play your game ever again"? Those asshats do more harm than good. And to be honest, when a person's attitude is like that, their opinion is worthless anyways, because even if SE let them design the game themselves, they still wouldn't be happy. And since they've already made it clear they'll not be playing, why bother acknowledging them?
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