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This game is a utter joke.. seriously.Follow

#52 Mar 10 2012 at 1:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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EmotionBlues wrote:
To be honest I wouldn't let people who didn't pay to play post either because you'd end up with forums like ZAM: Where every FFXIV hater comes to vent their pent up internet rage at the game and really accomplish nothing. The people who pay to play offer feedback because... they're actually playing the game. I wouldn't want to sort out that sh*t on official forums, there's a hard enough time already getting through all the whining on the official forums let alone if they were completely public again.


There's only one problem with this theory:

You need people who don't play to start playing to save the game from closing down. Wouldn't it be nice to know why they don't like what SE's doing while they still have a sliver of interest in the game? They could become paying customers someday.
#53 Mar 10 2012 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
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apapertiger wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Only people who actually play have the opportunity to give feedback on the changes? Oh the horror >_>


Yeah, out of the 700,000 to 1,000,000 in sales you should only listen to the 19,000-25,000 devoted. #OccupyEorzea

Seriously, what I mean is if we were running this business we would be eyeing that huge chunk of people that wanted to give us their money but bailed. Then see what we could do to bring them back in.


They had 15 months to do just that. Actually, they spent half a year doing pretty much only that (plus R&D'ing general MMO development) and have been putting into motion the plans that emerged from eyeing people and thinking what would make them come back ever since.

But more importantly regarding the actual changes in the game that only 'the devoted' have experienced (25k is not even close by the way if simultaneous logins alone exceed 10k) what value would the opinions of those who haven't experienced the changes bring to the table? Nothing.

Getting back that huge chunk of population requires 2.0 (and the free trial that comes with it), before that the masses have given their most valuable feedback already (they quit the game).

Edited, Mar 11th 2012 1:40am by Hyanmen
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#54 Mar 11 2012 at 3:53 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
apapertiger wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Only people who actually play have the opportunity to give feedback on the changes? Oh the horror >_>


Yeah, out of the 700,000 to 1,000,000 in sales you should only listen to the 19,000-25,000 devoted. #OccupyEorzea

Seriously, what I mean is if we were running this business we would be eyeing that huge chunk of people that wanted to give us their money but bailed. Then see what we could do to bring them back in.


They had 15 months to do just that. Actually, they spent half a year doing pretty much only that (plus R&D'ing general MMO development) and have been putting into motion the plans that emerged from eyeing people and thinking what would make them come back ever since.

But more importantly regarding the actual changes in the game that only 'the devoted' have experienced (25k is not even close by the way if simultaneous logins alone exceed 10k) what value would the opinions of those who haven't experienced the changes bring to the table? Nothing.

Getting back that huge chunk of population requires 2.0 (and the free trial that comes with it), before that the masses have given their most valuable feedback already (they quit the game).

Edited, Mar 11th 2012 1:40am by Hyanmen


I pulled my figures from some Japanese attendance stuff. Unfortunately, we'll likely never know what the actual numbers are. And from stuff I've seen on both japanese and american forums saying "25k" seems a bit generous. Like they were rounding up just because that made the most sense. They broke it down as 10k JP, 9k NA, and 6k EU. Either way, this game sold a grip and retained so little.

I'd probably have more to say but I've been drinking tequila and am certain this thread has somewhat derailed enough from the OP :)
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#55 Mar 11 2012 at 4:22 AM Rating: Decent
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a utter

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#56 Mar 11 2012 at 4:50 AM Rating: Default
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Xoie wrote:
EmotionBlues wrote:
To be honest I wouldn't let people who didn't pay to play post either because you'd end up with forums like ZAM: Where every FFXIV hater comes to vent their pent up internet rage at the game and really accomplish nothing. The people who pay to play offer feedback because... they're actually playing the game. I wouldn't want to sort out that sh*t on official forums, there's a hard enough time already getting through all the whining on the official forums let alone if they were completely public again.


There's only one problem with this theory:

You need people who don't play to start playing to save the game from closing down. Wouldn't it be nice to know why they don't like what SE's doing while they still have a sliver of interest in the game? They could become paying customers someday.


I also don't see any reason to believe that a non-paying customer enjoys vastly different things than a paying one. It would probably be easier to sort through suggestions from a smaller list of people who've played the game recently than listen to a largest list filled with complaints of the yesteryear.
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#57 Mar 11 2012 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
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apapertiger wrote:


I pulled my figures from some Japanese attendance stuff. Unfortunately, we'll likely never know what the actual numbers are. And from stuff I've seen on both japanese and american forums saying "25k" seems a bit generous. Like they were rounding up just because that made the most sense. They broke it down as 10k JP, 9k NA, and 6k EU. Either way, this game sold a grip and retained so little.

I'd probably have more to say but I've been drinking tequila and am certain this thread has somewhat derailed enough from the OP :)


Yes, your figures were pulled from the JP data that showed simultaneous logins during primetimes. The real number of active subscriptions is easily multiple times that. Unless every single active FFXIV player is online at the same time when the data is taken...
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#58 Mar 11 2012 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
your figures were pulled from the JP data that showed simultaneous logins during primetimes. The real number of active subscriptions is easily multiple times that. Unless every single active FFXIV player is online at the same time when the data is taken...


We're a very coordinated population.
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#59 Mar 18 2012 at 9:57 PM Rating: Good
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Leveling is not a challenge, it's a lazy design concept to keep you playing.. A really good MMO would have assorted quests and story-line that would last you hundreds of hours. Getting to max level shouldn't be instant, but it should definitely not take longer than a month. If it takes you a year to hit max level in a modern MMO, those devs are not really in touch with reality.

The reason leveling takes so freaking long in the past is due to insufficient available technology to create more/additional difficult content.. FFXIV is heading in this direction of more content, but it's obviously not spitting them out fast enough.. Diablo 3 and Tera is closing in, The Secret World coming soon after along with Guild wars 2.. It's becoming painfully obvious that the only people that are going to be playing FFXIV will be hardcore FF MMO fans..

Therefore the devs should just focus on making content that is good enough so that FFXI fans will eventually migrate to FFXIV... Going after the rest of the MMO community is a lost cause at this point.

Edited, Mar 18th 2012 11:59pm by nick2412
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#60 Mar 19 2012 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
People say leveling and the sense of accomplishment is an outdated concept in MMORPGs. "No one has time for grinding" and so on. The AF quests I've notice are actually challenging (final pieces at least) but it has a good storyline to compensate any short comings. Gotta face facts, MMOs are all about easy playing and casual friendly, it can't have TOO much of a challenge.

I have to totally agree, MMOs are becoming much more accessible which is the main thing to get the wider audience involved. I am keeping an eye on XIV and I must say so far things seem to be looking good and the way this whole jobs/af setup looks better than XI. I dont want to spend hours and hours on a single piece of gear which usually has basic good stats.
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#61BartelX, Posted: Mar 19 2012 at 8:57 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You might want to take some of your own advice. >.>
#62 Mar 19 2012 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
The only thing eating me in the game at the moment is that they changed how enfeebling works. I don't like it. The UI is fine~ish, combat is better, crafting is amazing now. New dungeons keep out the unskilled players. Full AF is NOT the best gear for most Jobs. (As a BLM I only use ONE piece, and that's the body. And even then I will replace it with Sorcerer's Robe when I get it.) So what's the big deal if you can get full AF in one day? Darklight Gear is amazing (some pieces are best in game even when compared to items w/materia.) and not only is it hard to beat Dungeons getting a sr5c, but even when you get 4 chests (which I have done quite a few times) Darklight Gear is a very rare drop (still haven't seen one piece drop at all.)

So anyone who says combat sucks, crafting sucks, no content. Your wrong. Just wrong. I doubt I will get the gear I need from this patch before the next content patch comes out. Unless I get stupid lucky. The content takes skill not spam. The crafting is not standard spam anymore. Elements dont destabilize every two seconds. HQing is a strategic planned procedure, not blind fing luck. 1000 quality = 100% HQ chance. It's up to you to figure out how to get there. THe GOOD crafters will be the ones that can HQ with NQ mats.(since starting with all HQ mats puts you at 500quality)

However it wont surprise me to see the same trolls complaining about the same things, most of which have been fixed for months. Let them be. Eventually they will get bored and leave to troll another game, or troll too much and get banned, or whatever. Feeding a troll will only make the troll happy.
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#63 Mar 19 2012 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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So anyone who says combat sucks, crafting sucks, no content. Your wrong. Just wrong. I doubt I will get the gear I need from this patch before the next content patch comes out. Unless I get stupid lucky. The content takes skill not spam. The crafting is not standard spam anymore. Elements dont destabilize every two seconds. HQing is a strategic planned procedure, not blind fing luck. 1000 quality = 100% HQ chance. It's up to you to figure out how to get there. THe GOOD crafters will be the ones that can HQ with NQ mats.(since starting with all HQ mats puts you at 500quality)


YES! Finally someone who makes sense!
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#64 Mar 19 2012 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Scyris wrote:
now its a worse than world of warcraft joke.


World of Warcraft is an excellent game and has some of the only endgame that's actually worth doing. FFXIV has always been far, far worse than WoW in every single possible way. The graphics may be shiny, but they also eat $1500 PCs for breakfast on DX9. Please keep your references accurate and comparable.

I want FFXIV to be a good game too, but don't make moronic statements please.


You might want to take some of your own advice. >.>


You tell Him!! In WOW you cant just sit and spam skills from start to finish in your safe zone...... oh wait
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#65 Mar 19 2012 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:


So anyone who says combat sucks, crafting sucks, no content. Your wrong. Just wrong. I doubt I will get the gear I need from this patch before the next content patch comes out. Unless I get stupid lucky. The content takes skill not spam. The crafting is not standard spam anymore. Elements dont destabilize every two seconds. HQing is a strategic planned procedure, not blind fing luck. 1000 quality = 100% HQ chance. It's up to you to figure out how to get there. THe GOOD crafters will be the ones that can HQ with NQ mats.(since starting with all HQ mats puts you at 500quality)

However it wont surprise me to see the same trolls complaining about the same things, most of which have been fixed for months. Let them be. Eventually they will get bored and leave to troll another game, or troll too much and get banned, or whatever. Feeding a troll will only make the troll happy.


How much content is there if you only chose to level one job and not all of them to 50? Let's say you wanted to gear a level 50 archer? I don't consider having to level multiple jobs up to gear them up content. Nor do I consider fighting the Moogle, Ifrit, or any of their other instanced dungeons 50 times to get gear content.Having to be extremely lucky (meaning if you get drops in the 100 times you do the fight), is ridiculous. As for crafting, the biggest gripe most had was that the stuff you produced was pretty useless for the most part. I admit, it needed a revamp system wise, but if all you're producing is crap, it's still useless (except for a few of the NM items and such).

Main complaints are still low pop servers, which has yet to be fixed (but will be soon, I know). The UI is still clunky at times and not as great as it should be, can you even drag and drop skills yet? Combat was always ok to me, needed some tinkering, but nothing major. It's obvious the game has improved drastically, but to say most things have been fixed for months is a complete lie (otherwise there wouldn't be a massive list of changes remaining from here to 2.0). I've come back several time in the last year, patch, after patch, after patch. I agree, lots is fixed, but many of the problems I saw a year ago, still remain. I doubt we'll get bored, cause many of use are looking forward to 2.0 and are still coming back after every patch (cause things ARE improving). I still can't say I'd recommend this game to a friend in it's current state, so it still needs quite a bit of work.
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#66 Mar 19 2012 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Scyris wrote:
now its a worse than world of warcraft joke.


World of Warcraft is an excellent game and has some of the only endgame that's actually worth doing. FFXIV has always been far, far worse than WoW in every single possible way. The graphics may be shiny, but they also eat $1500 PCs for breakfast on DX9. Please keep your references accurate and comparable.

I want FFXIV to be a good game too, but don't make moronic statements please.


You might want to take some of your own advice. >.>


World of Warcraft may not be for everyone, and its quality is of course, a matter of opinion. But for a game to get consistently high reviews and retain such a high population for so many years, it must have been doing something right. It's not moronic to give credit where it is due.

StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
So anyone who says combat sucks, crafting sucks, no content. Your wrong. Just wrong. I doubt I will get the gear I need from this patch before the next content patch comes out. Unless I get stupid lucky. The content takes skill not spam. The crafting is not standard spam anymore. Elements dont destabilize every two seconds. HQing is a strategic planned procedure, not blind fing luck. 1000 quality = 100% HQ chance. It's up to you to figure out how to get there. THe GOOD crafters will be the ones that can HQ with NQ mats.(since starting with all HQ mats puts you at 500quality)

However it wont surprise me to see the same trolls complaining about the same things, most of which have been fixed for months. Let them be. Eventually they will get bored and leave to troll another game, or troll too much and get banned, or whatever. Feeding a troll will only make the troll happy.


Hmm, I am curious now, I may have missed something if this is true. Ever since the crafting adjustment shortly after the launch of this game, rapid synth's failure rate was made fairly high and most of the time was inadequate during the process of leveling crafting (I remember using it a few times as a last ditch effort if I was down to my last try and could possibly make it in one rapid rather than two standards, even then I'm not sure if rapid was the better choice), while bold didn't yield high enough progress to be useful for it. Have they adjusted crafting in such a way to make people think "I should really use rapid/bold instead of standard synth because of this or that condition" during the leveling process?

By the way, I'd just like to point out that not everyone who dislikes this game's crafting mechanics or its other offerings is trolling. Some may be, but not all of them. Those who stick around and complain may be better for the state of this game than those who just forget about it completely, because the ones who still bother to follow it are the ones who may one day become customers and give the game the support it would need to turn it around. Smiley: nod
#67 Mar 19 2012 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah I would be one of those possible customers... Aka State's troll >_>;
Matter of fact I will come back at 2.o, but I'll be darned if I won't stop fussing until SE gets it right cause I WANT this game to succeed and come back.

I will pat the team on the back for fixing many things and putting their balls to the walls for working so hard to get this game where it SHOULD have been at launch, but they still have a long ways to go.

WoW is an old outdated game, which most likely has more subs than this game... By far... I think TOR may haveore subs than this game... And Rift I'm willing to guess may even have more subs than this game >_<;

Rift and TOR did their rigut by their customers SE did not and they are desperately scrambling to make up for it and it has hurt them in the long run.

Because these trolls calling fowl and sticking around lingering upon the updates and curious about player satisfaction is the reason why this game may have a chance in making some sort of come back. Idk if they will ever be able to compete against WoW or TOR cause of its launch, but many of these trolls are hoping SE proves them wrong and can eventually hold their own in the MMO market.

Lol trolls...
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#68 Mar 19 2012 at 2:48 PM Rating: Excellent
I play one job. Thaumaturge/Black Mage. That's it. I have had something to do more or less this whole time. I have a couple other 50's sure. But that is just being a responsible Thaumaturge and leveling necessary classes for useful skills. I have crafted, sure. But by choice, not necessity. Never was much for farming items to sell. I like making stuff. However somehow I still managed to level Botanist and Miner to 50. Do I have all these 50s geared? No. I have no CNJ gear, I use one set of crafting gear for everything. Lower level crafts I have pretty much nothing. I usually log and mine in my underwear. I just got my first Ifrit weapon a week ago not even. Still haven't gotten a Moogle weapon. Still have sidequests to do. Still have achievements I want to complete. Still have Grand Company items i want that I can get some seals for. Still have every single Disciple of War I can choose to level at any time, which in turns brings a whole set of new story content for each class/job.

No content? I can't seem to run out. If you are running out...maybe you should put the Red Bull down, take a deep breath, and chillax. It's not a race. If you are making it one, then don't complain when you place first. You won. Be happy. And then proceed to wait for the next race to begin, while the rest of us are enjoying ourselves.

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I don't consider having to level multiple jobs up to gear them up content. Nor do I consider fighting the Moogle, Ifrit, or any of their other instanced dungeons 50 times to get gear content.

Um...Smiley: dubious

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
As for crafting, the biggest gripe most had was that the stuff you produced was pretty useless for the most part. I admit, it needed a revamp system wise, but if all you're producing is crap, it's still useless.

Read the patch notes. Revamped Meds and Food and accessories. Little early to be asking for more gear to craft til they raise the level cap, which probably would have happened already if they didn't ***** up the game in the first place.

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Main complaints are still low pop servers, which has yet to be fixed (but will be soon, I know).

In eight days.

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
The UI is still clunky at times and not as great as it should be, can you even drag and drop skills yet?

I have no problem with UI. Drag and drop? No thanks.

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
but to say most things have been fixed for months is a complete lie (otherwise there wouldn't be a massive list of changes remaining from here to 2.0).

Most things have been fixed. This was the last major change to the game's core mechanics. ( Reference link since I know you will question my statement. Notice the rebuilding phase ends this month. ) Rest is tweaks to new content and porting to Ver. 2.0. Check your information before making false statements please. Thanks.

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I've come back several time in the last year, patch, after patch, after patch. I agree, lots is fixed, but many of the problems I saw a year ago, still remain. I doubt we'll get bored, cause many of use are looking forward to 2.0 and are still coming back after every patch (cause things ARE improving). I still can't say I'd recommend this game to a friend in it's current state, so it still needs quite a bit of work.


I have people lined up wanting to play FFXIV. Everyone is super stoked at how much the game is changed and how interesting and exciting it is now. Some are waiting for Version 2.0 cause they wanna play it on PS3 rather then spend $$$ on a PC others are building PCs as we speak. Some have already joined and are having a lot of fun. Take the sunglasses off bro. The future is bright and theres a world of adventure waiting out there for ya. Maybe it's not your cup of tea, the flavor sure has changed, but I like tea. I have no idea wtf that last sentence was supposed to mean. Welp I've said pretty much all that needs to be said. Enjoy! ^^

Edited, Mar 19th 2012 4:48pm by StateAlchemist

Edited, Mar 19th 2012 4:50pm by StateAlchemist
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#69 Mar 19 2012 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
I play one job. Thaumaturge/Black Mage. That's it. I have had something to do more or less this whole time. I have a couple other 50's sure. But that is just being a responsible Thaumaturge and leveling necessary classes for useful skills. I have crafted, sure. But by choice, not necessity. Never was much for farming items to sell. I like making stuff. However somehow I still managed to level Botanist and Miner to 50. Do I have all these 50s geared? No. I have no CNJ gear, I use one set of crafting gear for everything. Lower level crafts I have pretty much nothing. I usually log and mine in my underwear. I just got my first Ifrit weapon a week ago not even. Still haven't gotten a Moogle weapon. Still have sidequests to do. Still have achievements I want to complete. Still have Grand Company items i want that I can get some seals for. Still have every single Disciple of War I can choose to level at any time, which in turns brings a whole set of new story content for each class/job.

No content? I can't seem to run out. If you are running out...maybe you should put the Red Bull down, take a deep breath, and chillax. It's not a race. If you are making it one, then don't complain when you place first. You won. Be happy. And then proceed to wait for the next race to begin, while the rest of us are enjoying ourselves.

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I don't consider having to level multiple jobs up to gear them up content. Nor do I consider fighting the Moogle, Ifrit, or any of their other instanced dungeons 50 times to get gear content.

Um...Smiley: dubious

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
As for crafting, the biggest gripe most had was that the stuff you produced was pretty useless for the most part. I admit, it needed a revamp system wise, but if all you're producing is crap, it's still useless.

Read the patch notes. Revamped Meds and Food and accessories. Little early to be asking for more gear to craft til they raise the level cap, which probably would have happened already if they didn't ***** up the game in the first place.

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Main complaints are still low pop servers, which has yet to be fixed (but will be soon, I know).

In eight days.

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
The UI is still clunky at times and not as great as it should be, can you even drag and drop skills yet?

I have no problem with UI. Drag and drop? No thanks.

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
but to say most things have been fixed for months is a complete lie (otherwise there wouldn't be a massive list of changes remaining from here to 2.0).

Most things have been fixed. This was the last major change to the game's core mechanics. ( Reference link since I know you will question my statement. Notice the rebuilding phase ends this month. ) Rest is tweaks to new content and porting to Ver. 2.0. Check your information before making false statements please. Thanks.

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I've come back several time in the last year, patch, after patch, after patch. I agree, lots is fixed, but many of the problems I saw a year ago, still remain. I doubt we'll get bored, cause many of use are looking forward to 2.0 and are still coming back after every patch (cause things ARE improving). I still can't say I'd recommend this game to a friend in it's current state, so it still needs quite a bit of work.


I have people lined up wanting to play FFXIV. Everyone is super stoked at how much the game is changed and how interesting and exciting it is now. Some are waiting for Version 2.0 cause they wanna play it on PS3 rather then spend $$$ on a PC others are building PCs as we speak. Some have already joined and are having a lot of fun. Take the sunglasses off bro. The future is bright and theres a world of adventure waiting out there for ya. Maybe it's not your cup of tea, the flavor sure has changed, but I like tea. I have no idea wtf that last sentence was supposed to mean. Welp I've said pretty much all that needs to be said. Enjoy! ^^

Edited, Mar 19th 2012 4:48pm by StateAlchemist

Edited, Mar 19th 2012 4:50pm by StateAlchemist


I'm... entertained by this whole response. I'm sincerely glad you're able to get the enjoyment out of this game, but most of your assertions on what you like and why are exactly what the majority of former players hate about it. Now, the majority doesn't automatically mean "right" because it's a majority, but clearly, there's a difference of opinion on what engaging content actually means.

And as for your UI assertion. lol. There's really nothing to say to that.
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#70 Mar 19 2012 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Susanoh wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Scyris wrote:
now its a worse than world of warcraft joke.


World of Warcraft is an excellent game and has some of the only endgame that's actually worth doing. FFXIV has always been far, far worse than WoW in every single possible way. The graphics may be shiny, but they also eat $1500 PCs for breakfast on DX9. Please keep your references accurate and comparable.

I want FFXIV to be a good game too, but don't make moronic statements please.


You might want to take some of your own advice. >.>


World of Warcraft may not be for everyone, and its quality is of course, a matter of opinion. But for a game to get consistently high reviews and retain such a high population for so many years, it must have been doing something right. It's not moronic to give credit where it is due.


You're 100% correct, it's not moronic to give credit where it's due. It is however moronic to call someone else's statements moronic when your entire rebuttal is based off opinion. Stating that WoW "has some of the only endgame that's actually worth doing" and "FFXIV has always been far, far worse than WoW in every single possible way" are moronic, opinion-based statements. That is what I was referring to.

Just callin em like I see em.

Edited, Mar 19th 2012 5:26pm by BartelX
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#71 Mar 19 2012 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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I want to know what people think of by "Content". It seems like people are divided on what they believe this term means. Content=?


By my definition of content in a MMO this game is still far off but it does have enough to keep me, a gamer who falls in between hardcore and casual, occupied until 1.22. As for doing things and getting lucky because of low drop rates...why dont we hike up the drop rate to 100% and have everyone wearing the gear...seriously? That would just be stupid.
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#72 Mar 19 2012 at 3:32 PM Rating: Excellent
hexaemeron wrote:
I'm... entertained by this whole response. I'm sincerely glad you're able to get the enjoyment out of this game, but most of your assertions on what you like and why are exactly what the majority of former players hate about it. Now, the majority doesn't automatically mean "right" because it's a majority, but clearly, there's a difference of opinion on what engaging content actually means.

And as for your UI assertion. lol. There's really nothing to say to that.


So happy I could bring enjoyment to your reading experience.

Who can give a better assessment of the game as it currently stands? A former player who no longer plays, or someone who actively plays and has for a long time?

And what else can you gauge something by except for someone else's opinion or first-hand experience? A former player can't go by the latter, so maybe you should start listening to the active players? Maybe read some threads from new players or from returning players that are titled something other then "FFXIV still sucks" once in a while? There are a lot of them out there. This isn't the only forum I frequently peruse through.

And as for your comment to my UI assessment. I don't use a mouse, so no need to drag-and-drop anything. Adding in a feature I would never use is completely useless to me. If you want it, no problem. Not a priority though for me(or other keyboard only users) or controller users(I would think). I don't think anyone is gonna say "The only reason I am not playing FFXIV is because they don't have drag and drop." However there were other things that could fit in that statement before.

I have a suggestion though. How about constructively adding to a thread by posting your thoughts an ideas about the subject, rather then trying, and failing, to fragment other peoples posts and make snide remarks that any person with some common sense can see is nothing more then condescending. Seriously. It's just good manners.

And let me define content for you: stuff. Stuff to do, stuff to get, etc. If battles and gear and jobs and such isn't content, what is? You just want them to add a few 20 hour long CG movies in the game? What is this mythical utopia game you seem to think someone is going to custom make for you to your exact personal specifications?

Please. I await an actual replay now from you, with some personal opinions and thoughts, and maybe some citations to back up any 'factual' data you may have. I will be happy to do the same. If you want to just troll that's fine I don't mind. However I will only tolerate so much of it. If you would like to have a real discussion. Please continue. The floor is yours sir.
____________________________
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#73 Mar 19 2012 at 3:34 PM Rating: Excellent
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:


I have people lined up wanting to play FFXIV. Everyone is super stoked at how much the game is changed and how interesting and exciting it is now. Some are waiting for Version 2.0 cause they wanna play it on PS3 rather then spend $$$ on a PC others are building PCs as we speak. Some have already joined and are having a lot of fun. Take the sunglasses off bro. The future is bright and theres a world of adventure waiting out there for ya. Maybe it's not your cup of tea, the flavor sure has changed, but I like tea. I have no idea wtf that last sentence was supposed to mean. Welp I've said pretty much all that needs to be said. Enjoy! ^^

Edited, Mar 19th 2012 4:48pm by StateAlchemist

Edited, Mar 19th 2012 4:50pm by StateAlchemist


I'll take off my sunglasses if you agree to take off your beer goggles.
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#74 Mar 19 2012 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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542 posts
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
I have no problem with UI. Drag and drop? No thanks.


This type of thinking would really hold the game back. PC games in the year 2012 have standards, and one of them is intuitive keyboard and mouse support. To dismiss such a feature with a "no thanks," I don't even know what to say. Hardcore Final Fantasy fans may be ok using a game pad or sifting through menus, there may be some who even prefer it, but to not at least include the option is going to be a turn off to those who have become accustomed to it. If SE is even going to attempt to reach out to PC gamers, I would urge them to create a UI that is up to par with current generation PC games in order to increase its appeal.
#75 Mar 19 2012 at 3:46 PM Rating: Excellent
**
542 posts
BartelX wrote:
Susanoh wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Scyris wrote:
now its a worse than world of warcraft joke.


World of Warcraft is an excellent game and has some of the only endgame that's actually worth doing. FFXIV has always been far, far worse than WoW in every single possible way. The graphics may be shiny, but they also eat $1500 PCs for breakfast on DX9. Please keep your references accurate and comparable.

I want FFXIV to be a good game too, but don't make moronic statements please.


You might want to take some of your own advice. >.>


World of Warcraft may not be for everyone, and its quality is of course, a matter of opinion. But for a game to get consistently high reviews and retain such a high population for so many years, it must have been doing something right. It's not moronic to give credit where it is due.


You're 100% correct, it's not moronic to give credit where it's due. It is however moronic to call someone else's statements moronic when your entire rebuttal is based off opinion. Stating that WoW "has some of the only endgame that's actually worth doing" and "FFXIV has always been far, far worse than WoW in every single possible way" are moronic, opinion-based statements. That is what I was referring to.

Just callin em like I see em.


Ok, I can see what you were getting at. Smiley: nod
#76 Mar 19 2012 at 4:02 PM Rating: Excellent
Susanoh wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
I have no problem with UI. Drag and drop? No thanks.


This type of thinking would really hold the game back. PC games in the year 2012 have standards, and one of them is intuitive keyboard and mouse support. To dismiss such a feature with a "no thanks," I don't even know what to say. Hardcore Final Fantasy fans may be ok using a game pad or sifting through menus, there may be some who even prefer it, but to not at least include the option is going to be a turn off to those who have become accustomed to it. If SE is even going to attempt to reach out to PC gamers, I would urge them to create a UI that is up to par with current generation PC games in order to increase its appeal.


Maybe they should have thought about that before releasing a PC only client with a PS3 interface? heh But please don't take my opinions and think I ma forcing them upon others. If you read on further in my next post I elaborated to say:

Quote:
And as for your comment to my UI assessment. I don't use a mouse, so no need to drag-and-drop anything. Adding in a feature I would never use is completely useless to me. If you want it, no problem. Not a priority though for me(or other keyboard only users) or controller users(I would think). I don't think anyone is gonna say "The only reason I am not playing FFXIV is because they don't have drag and drop."


Probably should have elaborated sooner. However I did elaborate before you posted. No harm no foul. I have posted a comment too soon and felt a bit silly for not reading the comments further down before.

Edit: You have to prioritize and draw the line somewhere. You can't add in every single feature that every single player is used to from every other game that has been made. At some point you just have to decide what you want to include and what you don't. For all we know it would be literally impossible for them to add a drag and drop feature at the moment due to how image files are stored and displayed and how the UI is coded. I have no idea about any of that though. Asking them to add in something like that which very well may force them to recode the entire UI is obscene when they already had a buffet of things to work on. (Maybe they have included this feature in the new Ver 2.0 UI? You never know!) Regardless of the fact that none of it should have been THAT broken. I will say this again. I am not against adding in a feature like that. But, it will only improve the game play of some (not all). Once everything is fixed, tweaked, and polished, then they can afford to sit back and look at things like that. Not everyone uses a mouse, just like not everyone uses just a keyboard, or just a controller. Something like that is what they should ask about in player's polls.

With the UI the way it is at the moment I don't even use macros. (Which surprised the heck out of me cause I used macros for everything in FFXI.)

Edited, Mar 19th 2012 6:14pm by StateAlchemist
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#77 Mar 19 2012 at 4:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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542 posts
I gotcha, no harm at all. Smiley: nod

And no knock against you if you do like menus, I just think mouse support is a must if they're going to reach past their fan base into general PC gamer territory. Good mouse support isn't required to make the game at least playable (a console/controller user especially would probably never even question it), but it's something many PC gamers have become accustomed to using and would feel almost naked without.

Edited, Mar 19th 2012 6:12pm by Susanoh
#78 Mar 19 2012 at 4:18 PM Rating: Excellent
Susanoh wrote:
I gotcha, no harm at all. Smiley: nod

And no knock against you if you do like menus, I just think mouse support is a must if they're going to reach past their fan base into general PC gamer territory. Good mouse support isn't required to make the game at least playable (a console/controller user especially would probably never even question it), but it's something many PC gamers have become accustomed to using and would feel almost naked without.

Edited, Mar 19th 2012 6:12pm by Susanoh

To be honest I would be more intimidated having to try and drag and drop between 200 different things on my screen. I have seen screen shots of wow with people having all the packs and stuff open. Sorry too many fing icons and such. Just give me some item names and a scroll bar. Maybe a more intuitive sorting system...but god I cant even imagine having to LOOK at that. But i guess if your used to it...I don't know. I like a clean simple screen. Neat menus or whatever. Not something that looks like I just clicked on the wrong hyperlink and all of a sudden realize my anti-virus isn't working as hundreds of pop-ups begin to appear. I would get lost in windows of stuff.

(oh and i dont wanna have to memorize what every single item is by icon >< some items in ffxiv use the same icon... that would get confusing...)

Edited, Mar 19th 2012 6:21pm by StateAlchemist
____________________________
Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost.
Data Center: Primal; Server: Ultros; Free Company: The Kraken Club; Grand Company: The Maelstrom; Chocobo: Kweh
#79 Mar 19 2012 at 4:23 PM Rating: Excellent
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:


Please. I await an actual replay now from you, with some personal opinions and thoughts, and maybe some citations to back up any 'factual' data you may have. I will be happy to do the same. If you want to just troll that's fine I don't mind. However I will only tolerate so much of it. If you would like to have a real discussion. Please continue. The floor is yours sir.


There's no sense even discussing things with you, as certain blatant problems, are a non-issue to you. The UI drag and drop was just one example of things that should of been there from day 1 that still have yet to be addressed. Selling items is still not where it needs to be, the fact that there's a myriad of screens to click through just to get to certain thing is still pointless. I get where you're coming from "These things don't effect me at all!", but by that token, these are things that should work flawlessly and that have 0 reason to be leading behind, oh, just about every MMO on the market with a decent budget.

As for the content thing, it's clear you like the asian MMO style and the grind, and that is 100% opinion and will vary from person to person. We'll probably just disagree there no matter what we say. I still think that having to repeat a fight 100 times with that 3% chance of having X item drop is ridiculous. Make more battlefields, make more dungeons, and make SEVERAL pieces of gear for several jobs obtainable across the whole gamut of them, requiring several players to participate. Yes, you will have to repeat certain dungeons, but not as often and can probably move on to another dungeon or primal fight (provided there are enough of them). I'd rather have to put a game down for awhile because I've done a ton of varied stuff and obtained gear then have to keep playing for 3 months cause that piece has yet to drop for me.

As I say all this, I realize that a) server structure is not where it needs to be, limiting a whole lot of what needs to be done for UI and such and b) why add a ton of stuff if it might not make it to 2.0, or be useful in 2.0

The whole job system and AF quests for 1.21? Great addition, different quests, guaranteeing you certain pieces of equipment! Lots of story involvement, it was fantastic and I'll still stand by my I'm looking for forward to 2.0 and still do come back often enough and have played since alpha. I'm not denying that the game has improved a TON since release, I'm just saying that there's still quite a bit to be fixed and playing at this current time definitely has it's downfalls.
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#80 Mar 19 2012 at 4:42 PM Rating: Excellent
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
There's no sense even discussing things with you, as certain blatant problems, are a non-issue to you. The UI drag and drop was just one example of things that should of been there from day 1 that still have yet to be addressed. Selling items is still not where it needs to be, the fact that there's a myriad of screens to click through just to get to certain thing is still pointless. I get where you're coming from "These things don't effect me at all!", but by that token, these are things that should work flawlessly and that have 0 reason to be leading behind, oh, just about every MMO on the market with a decent budget.

As for the content thing, it's clear you like the asian MMO style and the grind, and that is 100% opinion and will vary from person to person. We'll probably just disagree there no matter what we say. I still think that having to repeat a fight 100 times with that 3% chance of having X item drop is ridiculous. Make more battlefields, make more dungeons, and make SEVERAL pieces of gear for several jobs obtainable across the whole gamut of them, requiring several players to participate. Yes, you will have to repeat certain dungeons, but not as often and can probably move on to another dungeon or primal fight (provided there are enough of them). I'd rather have to put a game down for awhile because I've done a ton of varied stuff and obtained gear then have to keep playing for 3 months cause that piece has yet to drop for me.


Please don't take this offensively because I am not intending it that way. But everything you just said here makes me thing one thing: FFXIV is not WoW. I want it to be WoW. Make it like WoW.
WoW has your drag and drop.
WoW has your shop you want.
WoW has no grind.
WoW has more battlefields and dungeons.
WoW has more gear, and more gear, and more gear. All of which is outdated almost as soon as you get it.
From what I hear the whole game is nothing but a numbers game now. If your gear score isn't good enough you get booted.

If you like that, that's all good. And if FFXIV was like that I would prob be in your shoes and you in mine. Just like I had to let go and realize that even though I loved FFXI I wasn't going to get a FFXI-2 and I have come to enjoy FFXIV a lot. You can't expect to play WoW or a game like it, and assume any 'good' game is gonna be the same. I was wrong thinking like that as well.

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
As I say all this, I realize that a) server structure is not where it needs to be, limiting a whole lot of what needs to be done for UI and such and b) why add a ton of stuff if it might not make it to 2.0, or be useful in 2.0

The whole job system and AF quests for 1.21? Great addition, different quests, guaranteeing you certain pieces of equipment! Lots of story involvement, it was fantastic and I'll still stand by my I'm looking for forward to 2.0 and still do come back often enough and have played since alpha. I'm not denying that the game has improved a TON since release, I'm just saying that there's still quite a bit to be fixed and playing at this current time definitely has it's downfalls.

Now hopefully you didn't get ****** by my above statements. I am happy to hear you liked the recent additions to FFXIV. I am sure they have lots more delicious goodies for us like this in the future. And maybe when 2.0 comes they will address some of your other concerns. Just hopefully not copy/paste WoW UI. ^^; (Sorry I just can't get past that UI...too many icons T.T)

Edited, Mar 19th 2012 6:43pm by StateAlchemist

Can you even play wow without a mouse? >.>

Edited, Mar 19th 2012 6:44pm by StateAlchemist
____________________________
Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost.
Data Center: Primal; Server: Ultros; Free Company: The Kraken Club; Grand Company: The Maelstrom; Chocobo: Kweh
#81 Mar 19 2012 at 6:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
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1,310 posts
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
(oh and i dont wanna have to memorize what every single item is by icon >< some items in ffxiv use the same icon... that would get confusing...)


It's called mouseover. Here, check this out. Hover your mouse pointer over this link without clicking it:

Templar's Falchion

See? Mouseover. You do that in those moments when you're not sure what something is and you want more information.

We'll teach you the nuances of mouse use yet! Smiley: wink
#82 Mar 19 2012 at 6:25 PM Rating: Good
Best part of this conversation, I've never actually played WoW. These are all gripes that other MMO's or other single player RPG's have done well over the past 20 years. I even played FFXI for 8 years, loved the game, but I still won't deny that it had HUGE problems and to this day still possesses them. There's a reason why I didn't touch Dynamis, Sky, Sea, Einherjar, etc until they got revamped and adjusted the drop rates and or pop conditions.

The UI overall for XIV isn't horrible overall, they can keep what they have now just maybe use a few less windows and add a few more options to facilitate moving around it with mouse + keyboard.
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#83 Mar 19 2012 at 10:53 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
7,821 posts
I would like to see multiple windows open at once. It's a pain to make Job/Class macros...or I could stop being lazy and write the name of my gear down. :)
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#84 Mar 20 2012 at 4:38 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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2,153 posts
Quote:
I have no problem with UI. Drag and drop? No thanks.

What a stupid attitude.
Quote:
Please don't take this offensively because I am not intending it that way. But everything you just said here makes me thing one thing: FFXIV is not WoW. I want it to be WoW. Make it like WoW.
WoW has your drag and drop.
WoW has your shop you want.

If that's the only thing you are capable of thinking of when someone offers good, working
solutions for many of the problems FFXIV has according to the 90% of players that quit,
I really wonder. Ah, and btw:
"Please don't take this offensively because I am not intending it that way."
Yadda yadda.
#85 Mar 20 2012 at 9:40 AM Rating: Excellent
**
542 posts
The UI thing definitely isn't exclusive to World of Warcraft, it extends to the vast majority of successful PC games and computer applications in general. The mouse is just such a useful tool in creating an intuitive UI, and it also has the advantage of familiarity at this point. Imagine if a word processor, internet browser, or photo editor were created with very little mouse support and it was actually just as easy if not easier to navigate this particular application using menus and hot keys on a keyboard. They could try and push it as something completely different to those other programs and say it's just a different method of control, but the vast majority of users would find it to be less intuitive and efficient than their current programs. It's not so different when it comes to gaming. Creating a UI people want to use is a very nice thing to have when trying to market a successful product.

It would be possible for a game to get by with a UI that doesn't cater to PC gamers if it's good enough in other areas, but it would have an even bigger chance of success if it's good enough in other areas and it has a UI that the majority of players find pleasant to use. As a game that is intended to be on both PS3 and PC, they'd have to create it in a way that players on both platforms enjoy using it, which would probably mean including multiple options for UI control. In a best case scenario for this game, most players on both PC and PS3 would both enjoy using it. How willing or able SE is to pulling something like this off is entirely up to them.

Edited, Mar 20th 2012 11:43am by Susanoh
#86 Mar 20 2012 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
562 posts
Susanoh wrote:
The UI thing definitely isn't exclusive to World of Warcraft, it extends to the vast majority of successful PC games and computer applications in general. The mouse is just such a useful tool in creating an intuitive UI, and it also has the advantage of familiarity at this point. Imagine if a word processor, internet browser, or photo editor were created with very little mouse support and it was actually just as easy if not easier to navigate this particular application using menus and hot keys on a keyboard. They could try and push it as something completely different to those other programs and say it's just a different method of control, but the vast majority of users would find it to be less intuitive and efficient than their current programs. It's not so different when it comes to gaming. Creating a UI people want to use is a very nice thing to have when trying to market a successful product.

It would be possible for a game to get by with a UI that doesn't cater to PC gamers if it's good enough in other areas, but it would have an even bigger chance of success if it's good enough in other areas and it has a UI that the majority of players find pleasant to use. As a game that is intended to be on both PS3 and PC, they'd have to create it in a way that players on both platforms enjoy using it, which would probably mean including multiple options for UI control. In a best case scenario for this game, most players on both PC and PS3 would both enjoy using it. How willing or able SE is to pulling something like this off is entirely up to them.

Edited, Mar 20th 2012 11:43am by Susanoh


All true, but applications should be tailored for their specific need, not bound by arbitrary rules. "If it's on a PC it must have a mouse and keyboard designed UI" is the wrong approach - there are a lot of PC games I enjoy immensely using my 360 controller as opposed to the mouse and keyboard, while there are many games I can't imagine not having the mouse to control.

If FFXIV can be designed with a UI that doesn't necessitate drag and drop, keyboard + mouse tailored controls and still be fun, I have no issues with those elements being excluded. I'm not fixed into one specific playstyle just because I'm on a PC, I use whatever method of control plays best. UIs can be designed so that pointer-based control and drag and drop is not a prerequisite to good UX.
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FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#87 Mar 20 2012 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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True enough. But show me one solution that works faster than drag & drop.
Windows was successful for a reason.
Drag & drop was one of them.
#88 Mar 20 2012 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
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562 posts
Rinsui wrote:
True enough. But show me one solution that works faster than drag & drop.
Windows was successful for a reason.
Drag & drop was one of them.


It's not a matter of just one example that works faster than drag and drop, it's a matter of how the UI is designed from the ground up.

I can give you an example of a game that plays extremely well with just a controller, subjectively better than keyboard and mouse: Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham City.

I can give you an example of a game that plays extremely well with a mouse and keyboard, arguably impossible with a controller: Starcraft and Starcraft 2.

Both are games on the PC, but do either of those prove that one control type is better than the other? No, it just means they were designed from the beginning with a specific UX in mind and optimized around that control scheme.

The point is just that FFXIV doesn't have to include drag and drop to succeed so long as the UI is built around such exclusion. Anything different though and it will just fall into terrible UX. If they're going to say "we spent a considerable amount of time optimizing the game for mouse and keyboard and intend for it to be the primary method of play control" then they'd better include drag and drop. If they however say "the game was built primarily with the controller in mind" then such mechanics are not necessary.

Edited, Mar 20th 2012 12:28pm by Whales
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#89 Mar 20 2012 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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True enough again. But to tell PC gamers that they need a controller to play a MMO is, well... pretty bold.
Just to be clear: I am using a controller myself (the snakebyte FFXIV special, btw).
But the UI I experienced in FFXIV was just nasty, to use a mild term.

So if they can manage to build a controller-friendly UI, and don't care about
those millions of MMO players who are used to their mice and keyboard, that's
ok for me. But the latter will scare off many people, and they did not even manage
the former yet.
#90 Mar 20 2012 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
**
562 posts
Rinsui wrote:
True enough again. But to tell PC gamers that they need a controller to play a MMO is, well... pretty bold.
Just to be clear: I am using a controller myself (the snakebyte FFXIV special, btw).
But the UI I experienced in FFXIV was just nasty, to use a mild term.

So if they can manage to build a controller-friendly UI, and don't care about
those millions of MMO players who are used to their mice and keyboard, that's
ok for me. But the latter will scare off many people, and they did not even manage
the former yet.


I agree. It ultimately comes down to business decisions and the ability to build a UI for both a primarily pointer-based audience (PC) and one that's for all consideration an exclusive controller-based one (PS3.)

I have no direct knowledge of their plans or the difficulty of designing UIs across multiple interfaces so I can't speak as to the "right" direction here. FFXI worked as a controller-based game because it was built from the ground up for the PS2 and that audience, but who knows how that will translate to FFXIV.

There's a lot of things FFXIV could do to "scare off" primarily PC-based current generation MMORPG players, point-and-click interfaces with drag and drop is just the tip of the iceberg in that regard.

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FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#91 Mar 20 2012 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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542 posts
Whales wrote:
All true, but applications should be tailored for their specific need, not bound by arbitrary rules. "If it's on a PC it must have a mouse and keyboard designed UI" is the wrong approach - there are a lot of PC games I enjoy immensely using my 360 controller as opposed to the mouse and keyboard, while there are many games I can't imagine not having the mouse to control.

If FFXIV can be designed with a UI that doesn't necessitate drag and drop, keyboard + mouse tailored controls and still be fun, I have no issues with those elements being excluded. I'm not fixed into one specific playstyle just because I'm on a PC, I use whatever method of control plays best. UIs can be designed so that pointer-based control and drag and drop is not a prerequisite to good UX.


I'm talking about actually marketing this game to a wider audience, not about what has or does not have the potential to work. You can of course create a UI that works best with a controller on PC. You could also create a PC UI on a console game that only plays well with a USB keyboard and mouse. But if you're realistically trying to reach out to a wide number of people within these audiences, neither of these is a good idea. It's a niche. I'm under the impression that FFXIV is attempting not to be a niche, that it really does want to broaden its audience and become a major competitor among MMOs. If it wants to do that, then I think it would do well to cater to the audiences that it's marketing toward.

EDIT: Also, all those applications I mentioned use a mouse because it's the most intuitive method of UI control and people actually want to use it, not because it's an "arbitrary rule." If any company wanted to release a web browser or any other currently mouse heavy computer application without mouse support, they can be my guest, but it better be good enough that people actually want to use it over the competition if it wants to compete.

Edited, Mar 20th 2012 3:39pm by Susanoh
#92 Mar 20 2012 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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2,214 posts
I think a lot of this has to do with the client requirements around the PC vs those around a console.

Most of the features that KB/Mouse users want can not be implemented without an excessive amount of work for the console. Simply the underlying framework doesn't exist.

As long as they want to release this on the PS3, KB/Mouse users are going to find things that they want, that will probably never come about. It doesn't mean they shouldn't stop asking for it, but it does mean that setting an expectation that it must be there is setting it up to fail.

And yes, you can use a KB/Mouse on a PS3 (I actually have the original Logitech Keyboard/Touchpad for the PS3 specifically for FFXI, and it works pretty well). But at the end of the day, I still resort to keyboard for typing, and controller for movement.

Either way, the control issue in the game is really a lose-lose for SE. If they make it 100% KB/M friendly, then Controller users will suffer, and if they make it 100% Controller friendly, then KB/M users suffer. Hopefully they can reach a point where they are no longer correcting the original 100% controller design of the game, and actually get more fluent KB/M support in. The latest key-binding has definitely helped.

And I would gladly ignore the lack of drag&drop (which I would definitely use if it was available) for a PFM button!
#93 Mar 20 2012 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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265 posts
"This game is a utter joke.. seriously."

"... a utter joke..."

"... a utter..."

Welcome to the internet, we do serious business here.
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#94 Mar 21 2012 at 7:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,606 posts
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
or troll too much and get banned

/shocked
Are you threatening to ban people from Alla if they disagree with your opinion? (I kid)

SA, something I have noticed from your posts over the past year or two is that you often have a.. umm.. "overly optimistic" view of this game and SE in general. You tend to be the cup is half full type. Nothing wrong with that but it seems you've been pretty content with the game in all it's stages. That makes you more the "exception" than the "rule."
#95 Mar 26 2012 at 12:26 AM Rating: Excellent
Meh I have my gripes just the same as the next guy. I just don't usually gripe about the little things.

Just to clarify here are my current issues I have with FFXIV:
Crowd Control is completely f-ed up now. Goodbye RDM.
Keyboard STILL cannot be mapped to match FFXI controls (silly considering they had to expect a lot of FFXI players to come to FFXIV)
Mouse-less UI not supported (touche drag-and-drop lovers!)
SE still hates mages. (Admit it's gotten a lil better.)
No open world competitive camping for any NM.
No LS management tools.
No mailbox.
No ability to scroll through pages when there is more then 20 items listed in MW.
No real AH for that matter. (I know it's coming).
No JP button for NA players. (Sorry had to throw that in there.)

I am probably forgetting some things but there you go. A lot of that stuff I have learned to live with. The CC thing really irked me, first when THM lost all pure CC save sleep, and second when they did the whole 3 consecutive CC if your lucky and then mob is immune bs. The no LS management tools thing probably brings up second, and no mailbox third.

I typically just find it pointless to waste time complaining over stuff that is either slated to be fixed, or SE just doesn't care enough about it to do anything atm. Maybe it's just me. Idk.
____________________________
Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost.
Data Center: Primal; Server: Ultros; Free Company: The Kraken Club; Grand Company: The Maelstrom; Chocobo: Kweh
#96 Mar 26 2012 at 2:36 AM Rating: Decent
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117 posts
For those curious about UI changes (and there are also many changes coming to many pet peeves you guys have):

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/40665?s=ff1a9c60cd0747e83c546ed223a3d25e&p=604985#post604985
#97 Mar 26 2012 at 6:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,112 posts
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:

Crowd Control is completely f-ed up now. Goodbye RDM.
Keyboard STILL cannot be mapped to match FFXI controls (silly considering they had to expect a lot of FFXI players to come to FFXIV)
Mouse-less UI not supported (touche drag-and-drop lovers!)
SE still hates mages. (Admit it's gotten a lil better.)
No open world competitive camping for any NM.
No LS management tools.
No mailbox.
No ability to scroll through pages when there is more then 20 items listed in MW.
No real AH for that matter. (I know it's coming).
No JP button for NA players. (Sorry had to throw that in there.)


Completely agree with all your points, which reflect pretty much all my own feelings.

Except for that striked out one, which I have no desire to see ever again, ever. Again. !.
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To endanger the soul endangers all,
when the soul is endangered it must become a Warrior.
#98 Mar 26 2012 at 6:52 AM Rating: Good
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588 posts
Kordain wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:

Crowd Control is completely f-ed up now. Goodbye RDM.
Keyboard STILL cannot be mapped to match FFXI controls (silly considering they had to expect a lot of FFXI players to come to FFXIV)
Mouse-less UI not supported (touche drag-and-drop lovers!)
SE still hates mages. (Admit it's gotten a lil better.)
No open world competitive camping for any NM.
No LS management tools.
No mailbox.
No ability to scroll through pages when there is more then 20 items listed in MW.
No real AH for that matter. (I know it's coming).
No JP button for NA players. (Sorry had to throw that in there.)


Completely agree with all your points, which reflect pretty much all my own feelings.

Except for that striked out one, which I have no desire to see ever again, ever. Again. !.


I believe Yoshida mentioned something about a roaming Odin NM which gets more difficult each time it is defeated. I don't have the quote but if that is true. I'll probably spend more than one weekend NM hunting.
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#99 Mar 26 2012 at 8:04 AM Rating: Excellent
kainsilv wrote:
Kordain wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:

Crowd Control is completely f-ed up now. Goodbye RDM.
Keyboard STILL cannot be mapped to match FFXI controls (silly considering they had to expect a lot of FFXI players to come to FFXIV)
Mouse-less UI not supported (touche drag-and-drop lovers!)
SE still hates mages. (Admit it's gotten a lil better.)
No open world competitive camping for any NM.
No LS management tools.
No mailbox.
No ability to scroll through pages when there is more then 20 items listed in MW.
No real AH for that matter. (I know it's coming).
No JP button for NA players. (Sorry had to throw that in there.)


Completely agree with all your points, which reflect pretty much all my own feelings.

Except for that striked out one, which I have no desire to see ever again, ever. Again. !.


I believe Yoshida mentioned something about a roaming Odin NM which gets more difficult each time it is defeated. I don't have the quote but if that is true. I'll probably spend more than one weekend NM hunting.

That would be cool. I don;t want all nms to be camp. But I would like a few. I do miss competitive camping, as long as I dont have to do it for every NM. -.-;
____________________________
Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost.
Data Center: Primal; Server: Ultros; Free Company: The Kraken Club; Grand Company: The Maelstrom; Chocobo: Kweh
#100 Mar 26 2012 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
30 posts
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
kainsilv wrote:
Kordain wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:

Crowd Control is completely f-ed up now. Goodbye RDM.
Keyboard STILL cannot be mapped to match FFXI controls (silly considering they had to expect a lot of FFXI players to come to FFXIV)
Mouse-less UI not supported (touche drag-and-drop lovers!)
SE still hates mages. (Admit it's gotten a lil better.)
No open world competitive camping for any NM.
No LS management tools.
No mailbox.
No ability to scroll through pages when there is more then 20 items listed in MW.
No real AH for that matter. (I know it's coming).
No JP button for NA players. (Sorry had to throw that in there.)


Completely agree with all your points, which reflect pretty much all my own feelings.

Except for that striked out one, which I have no desire to see ever again, ever. Again. !.


I believe Yoshida mentioned something about a roaming Odin NM which gets more difficult each time it is defeated. I don't have the quote but if that is true. I'll probably spend more than one weekend NM hunting.

That would be cool. I don;t want all nms to be camp. But I would like a few. I do miss competitive camping, as long as I dont have to do it for every NM. -.-;


I only played FFXI from the US launch through CoP, so I don't know how the game the developed in this regard, but all I remember are bots claiming Argus and the like (at least til the drop was changed to rare/ex), and the constant fighting between LS's over HNM claims. Waking up at 5:00 a.m. to help claim King Behemoth or whatever we had the respawn timer on that week and spending hours waiting in line to pop HNM's in Sky were the breaking points for me, and were the main reasons I abandoned what is still one of my favorite games of all time. It was just too much work for something that is supposed to be a game, and when you want to experience the most challenging content, but can only do it on a world timer, it really starts to ***** with the rest of your life (although I do have a lot of fond memories and some hilarious stories regarding what were at the time extremely difficult fights).

I love a good challenge, and I don't want the game to be easy. I had enough of easy mode playing WoW for 6 years. However, instancing is a far superior system, and I'll be disappointed if they revert back to the old open world system. In fact, it would probably drive me away from this game as well (which I'll be returning to in the next week or so).

Edited, Mar 26th 2012 10:39am by BnBurns2000
#101 Mar 26 2012 at 1:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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542 posts
BnBurns2000 wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
kainsilv wrote:
Kordain wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:

Crowd Control is completely f-ed up now. Goodbye RDM.
Keyboard STILL cannot be mapped to match FFXI controls (silly considering they had to expect a lot of FFXI players to come to FFXIV)
Mouse-less UI not supported (touche drag-and-drop lovers!)
SE still hates mages. (Admit it's gotten a lil better.)
No open world competitive camping for any NM.
No LS management tools.
No mailbox.
No ability to scroll through pages when there is more then 20 items listed in MW.
No real AH for that matter. (I know it's coming).
No JP button for NA players. (Sorry had to throw that in there.)


Completely agree with all your points, which reflect pretty much all my own feelings.

Except for that striked out one, which I have no desire to see ever again, ever. Again. !.


I believe Yoshida mentioned something about a roaming Odin NM which gets more difficult each time it is defeated. I don't have the quote but if that is true. I'll probably spend more than one weekend NM hunting.

That would be cool. I don;t want all nms to be camp. But I would like a few. I do miss competitive camping, as long as I dont have to do it for every NM. -.-;


I only played FFXI from the US launch through CoP, so I don't know how the game the developed in this regard, but all I remember are bots claiming Argus and the like (at least til the drop was changed to rare/ex), and the constant fighting between LS's over HNM claims. Waking up at 5:00 a.m. to help claim King Behemoth or whatever we had the respawn timer on that week and spending hours waiting in line to pop HNM's in Sky were the breaking points for me, and were the main reasons I abandoned what is still one of my favorite games of all time. It was just too much work for something that is supposed to be a game, and when you want to experience the most challenging content, but can only do it on a world timer, it really starts to ***** with the rest of your life (although I do have a lot of fond memories and some hilarious stories regarding what were at the time extremely difficult fights).

I love a good challenge, and I don't want the game to be easy. I had enough of easy mode playing WoW for 6 years. However, instancing is a far superior system, and I'll be disappointed if they revert back to the old open world system. In fact, it would probably drive me away from this game as well (which I'll be returning to in the next week or so).


I agree. If we compare something like open world NMs in FFXI to something like, say, Einherjar, I'd go with Einherjar every time. It has the advantage of being actual PVE content that requires playing against the enemies to succeed rather than an odd form of PVP that involves waiting and possibly botting (if players can figure it out and not get caught for it, then definitely botting), and it cannot be monopolized by the few groups of 24/7 linkshells who camp non-stop and sell drops to those on the outside. If your group is good enough, then your group has a shot at it. Not because you had a claim bot, or you had people willing to wake up at 4am to play a game, but because your group is just good at playing and able to complete the content.

Besides, I'm one of those crazy ones who still enjoys the fantasy aspect of my games, and the concept of fighting hordes of enemies in order to make your way toward a final boss just sits so much better with me than having a few dozen people sitting in a room waiting for a dragon to pop out of thin air so they can be the first to lay a finger on it and "claim" whatever treasure it holds.
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