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Post Final Poll Answers Here!Follow

#1 Mar 12 2012 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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Hello, everyone,

I thought it would be interesting to have a dedicated thread wherein we simply posted our respective replies to the final "short answer" question on the most recent player poll (since I know all of us will have probably taken it!). My answer is as follows:

With so many issues at launch, FFXIV's development potential has been greatly limited by its reliance on current assets (e.g., the sparsity of crafting & gathering classes; & the clumsy overlay of "jobs" on top of "classes," which is needlessly convoluted & mutually detracting). I hope that, with v2.0, the game will look, play, and feel as though it were made that way on purpose, not out of pragmatic necessity. With v2.0, I am hoping for a game as good as Final Fantasy XI was during its heyday.

Protip:Use ampersands to slide in just below the 500 character limit.
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"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#2 Mar 12 2012 at 8:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Already submitted so I can't copy & paste exactly, but I'll try to recap mine:

Make FFXIV 2.0 about the journey, not the destination. Fast and meaningless leveling MMOs which focus on endgame gear grinds are a dime a dozen, while part of what I loved about the Final Fantasy Online games of past were the slow paced and group-focus leveling curves. A much slower, group-focused leveling experience with subsequent content that opens up every few levels as the drive to push forward - gear, abilities or new hunting grounds - that's what I want in FFXIV 2.0

Edited, Mar 12th 2012 10:57am by Whales
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#3 Mar 12 2012 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Whales wrote:
Already submitted so I can't copy & paste exactly, but I'll try to recap mine:

Make FFXIV 2.0 about the journey, not the destination. Fast and meaningless leveling MMOs which focus on endgame gear grinds are a dime a dozen, while part of what I loved about the Final Fantasy Online games of past were the slow paced and group-focus leveling curves. A much slower, group-focused leveling experience with subsequent content that opens up every few levels as the drive to push forward - gear, abilities or new hunting grounds - that's what I want in FFXIV 2.0

Edited, Mar 12th 2012 10:57am by Whales


I said this exact same thing, only I said it in the box where they asked what you thought about the leveling pace at the very beginning of the poll. I put "I think something else" or whatever the option was called, and then I mentioned how in FFXI, the journey (leveling) was just as enjoyable as the destination (endgame). I mentioned how I felt the problem with the leveling in this game isn't that it's too fast or slow, but rather that it's too "empty." There's not much going on while you're leveling, there's no sense of satisfaction or achievement, and it just isn't fun. It feels like the only purpose is to get to the endgame as fast as you can, since that's where most all of the content is at.


#4 Mar 12 2012 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Amen. I said the same. People will forgive the fast/slow pace of leveling if the battles and journey are enjoyable.
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#5 Mar 12 2012 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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Wow, I'm surprised at how well-aligned all of the commentary has been thus far - although it could simply be that we (who take the survey right after it comes out and who frequent a dedicated FFXIV forum) are in agreement for obvious reasons. In retrospect I should have mentioned what everyone else has said, as well. But I checked the boxes that suggested as much, at least; hopefully SE will listen.
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#6 Mar 12 2012 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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I did mention that the combo system needs more work I still don't see people using it. I feel it should enhance party play as weaponskills did in FFXI. Then I will consider it more of a success.
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#7 Mar 12 2012 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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It's been over a year since I played, but I've been following the forums and updates closely within the last few months. Some of my knowledge of the game might not be completely accurate, but this is what I posted;

"Currant new content seems great. My only concern is that ease of leveling renders all low-mid level content and economy completely inert. There is a wealth of quality content in the game now that is wasted because of this problem. My hope for v2.0 is that this is completely remedied, and that the levels of all DoW/M are reset to 1 at release.

I'd like to play for a long time before I am able to reach level 50, and hope that there will be a healthy population across all levels during that time.
"

I think I used exactly 500 characters.

I'm wondering how many people would be for or against the idea of resetting characters, or even just levels at the release of v2.0. I'm sure a lot of people would be for it for the same reasons I am, but how many players are really attached to their currant progress I wonder.
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#8 Mar 12 2012 at 8:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm wondering how many people would be for or against the idea of resetting characters, or even just levels at the release of v2.0. I'm sure a lot of people would be for it for the same reasons I am, but how many players are really attached to their currant progress I wonder.


Bad idea.

I would have been all for this many months ago, but by the time V 2.0 comes out, two years (or more) will have passed, and there will be thousands of players who have played that entire time.

That's simply far too much time with your character to start over from scratch.
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#9 Mar 12 2012 at 8:12 PM Rating: Good
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I would quit FFXIV if levels were reset upon 2.0. I didn't mind losing my level 50 shield and my level 50 physical level. But I wouldn't have paid the 9.99 fee for all these months either if I knew they were going to wipe everything.

I am glad that it isn't happening and I am glad that Yoshi is against the idea of wiping our progress thus far.



Edited, Mar 12th 2012 7:15pm by UltKnightGrover
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#10 Mar 12 2012 at 8:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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it would seem to me that even if they fixed the power leveling and the normal pace of leveling, that a lot of the damage has already been done. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems most of the population has maxed several or most of their classes. I don't think that's a situation that most people would want to start out in, or that low-mid level content could be salvaged in. If they don't reset levels, they'll need to make sure the servers are organized well to give people options for how to play. As it is, they've already let everyone max their classes. something needs to be done about that. Am I wrong?
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#11 Mar 12 2012 at 11:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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If they don't reset levels, they'll need to make sure the servers are organized well to give people options for how to play. As it is, they've already let everyone max their classes. something needs to be done about that. Am I wrong?


Actually, the benefit of so many people having so many jobs at max level is that building parties for raids/missions/quests is very easy to do. You can pretty much grab any collection of eight people and have enough different job combos to do just about anything!

What would really at V 2.0 would be to have a level sync option similar to FFXI.
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#12 Mar 13 2012 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Bad idea.

I would have been all for this many months ago, but by the time V 2.0 comes out, two years (or more) will have passed, and there will be thousands of players who have played that entire time.

That's simply far too much time with your character to start over from scratch.


I very much understand this point: that what you earned you should keep. It's a sensible view, to be sure but, in the confines of this crazy game, this one-of-a-kind MMORPG that might have a chance of survival after a catastrophic launch, it also may be a damaging view to have.

At its essence, this just another example of the ways in which SE has dug themselves into a hole. With too many assets spent on classes to completely change them, SE put jobs (which are essentially just the ability to set 5 new skills) right on top of classes. With too much work behind crafting and gathering classes, they "fix" them by fast-forwarding their actions and applying tweaks to a system that very few people find any enjoyment in doing. And, now, with so many people sitting on millions of gil and maxed-out characters, SE has to re-release a game that can never be too different from the original failed game in order to validate the effort players of the failed version spent!

It's like the content we're currently getting in these updates: different, new, better, but "only so much can be done within the confines of version 1.x."

Of course, it's too late to say that SE should have shut down the game and rebooted it during the "reboot state" of their v2.0 plan. They should have, but they didn't. And now the game has to lumber forward whilst carrying the baggage piled on top of it for the last two years. At least, come 2.0, though, we'll all have so many levels and resources that we can race through its topmost content quickly and get back to the real reason we want a reinvigorated and redesigned Eorzea: to sit at cap and log in only on patch days, just as many of us have been doing all along.

I apologize for basically derailing my own thread. Apparently I have no self respect. >_<
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#13 Mar 13 2012 at 12:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think if they simply increase the level cap at 2.0 to level 65, 70, or 75 and introduce level sync from FFXI, then the "top-heavy" problem people are worrying about would be somewhat solved.

They should introduce new raids/dungeons to support the raised level cap and you instantly have a lot of mid-level things to do with all of the stuff they've added in 1.0.

Edited, Mar 12th 2012 11:45pm by UltKnightGrover
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Grover Eyeveen - Hyperion Server
Viva Eorzea Free Company/Linkshell Leader - Hyperion Server

Aegis Server (2012-2013)
Figaro Server (2010-2012)

Final Fantasy XI:
Retired

Blog
#14 Mar 13 2012 at 1:20 AM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
And, now, with so many people sitting on millions of gil and maxed-out characters, SE has to re-release a game that can never be too different from the original failed game in order to validate the effort players of the failed version spent!


Thing is, the Armory System is not why FFXIV failed. On the contrary, it was nearly everything else about the game that soured the mood. In fact, the Armory System was consistently one of the few things critics actually liked about the game being the only stand-out, innovative highlight. So, having players with maxed out classes is not committing FFXIV to failure.

What gives 2.0 a chance is bringing new people into a polished, finished world that's been play tested with fun in mind (like they should have done in the first place). Then they have to tell a story that puts your character into world events and brings attachment to the people who live there. As long as characters have that feeling they're working towards something meaningful and as long as they don't have to fight the controls to get there, they won't get lost or bored.
#15 Mar 13 2012 at 1:52 AM Rating: Decent
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New servers for new players.
#16 Mar 13 2012 at 2:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:


I apologize for basically derailing my own thread. Apparently I have no self respect. >_<


That was my fault actually, sorry Smiley: frown

Now I'm thinking that a more realistic solution might just be to designate certain servers at launch for new characters only. Those that want to cling to their wealth can stay in their own servers. Newly created characters would have the choice of joining an established server, w/ lots of money, items, and high level players already going around, or instead just to start w/ the new blood and others that are starting over. This should be good for everybody. And besides, we know they're sitting on extra servers now anyway after the currant mergers.

I'm not saying that you guys should have to drink from separate water fountains or anything Smiley: lol but, please, stay in your own servers ..........and away from my children Smiley: laugh
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#17 Mar 13 2012 at 7:18 AM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
I think if they simply increase the level cap at 2.0 to level 65, 70, or 75 and introduce level sync from FFXI, then the "top-heavy" problem people are worrying about would be somewhat solved.

They should introduce new raids/dungeons to support the raised level cap and you instantly have a lot of mid-level things to do with all of the stuff they've added in 1.0.


While I like the idea of a level cap increase with 2.0, I'm not convinced we'll see one at this point. The FFXIV 2.0 roadmap indicates the last two patches prior to 2.0, 1.22 and 1.23, are content updates. While we certainly don't know for sure, it doesn't make a lot of sense for them spend two patches on content only to make it irrelevant with the relaunch.

That is unless there's this super secret FFXIV dev team working on nothing but new 2.0 endgame content or the content we'll see in 1.22 and 1.23 will be tuned for those increased levels.

I have a feeling patch notes are going to get really interesting and we'll start seeing a lot more alluding to the 2.0 changes.
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#18 Mar 13 2012 at 7:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Xoie wrote:
What gives 2.0 a chance is bringing new people into a polished, finished world that's been play tested with fun in mind (like they should have done in the first place).


I have a theory, and bear with me as this is out there in the fringe, but a theory that FFXIV's awful launch that many speculated was pushed out earlier desired because of a need to get it to market was actually the best thing for the game.

Think about it. All the things the current dev team says we can't do with the current engine, those either weren't discovered or thought of during the initial build out. It's because we were given an unpolished, incomplete product that allowed an easier internal decision to scrap what we have now and go with something new. Had the old FFXIV team been allowed to 'polish' that product, it might have been much harder for them to be open to the idea of switching engines, clients and server architecture and we'd be stuck with the limitations of the Crystal Tools engine.

Of course this is all speculation and ground in no amount of reality, so it's probably just left as the musings of an aging gamer and writer trying to consume enough coffee to start the day.
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#19 Mar 13 2012 at 7:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Bad idea.

I would have been all for this many months ago, but by the time V 2.0 comes out, two years (or more) will have passed, and there will be thousands of players who have played that entire time.

That's simply far too much time with your character to start over from scratch.


SE should give me a reason to start over.

I think by introducing Achievements, allowing everyone to cap and introducing special mounts gained only if you were crazy enough to stick it out they have done the exact opposite. They have created more ownership of a system that is changing every patch. So radical have the changes been to the systems in this game someone commented once, "I don't even know how to play my classes anymore". This... At least in part, is the source of much of the controversy that we have seen on the forums.

I say, "Give me a reason to go back and experience it all again." If the reason is good enough most players might just do it. Introducing more low and mid-level content that is unique would get me thinking about starting again. Sadly, most people will probably say, "I will just wait until they introduce new classes and jobs then I will experience the new content."

In some ways I don't want to level my classes any further. I am hoping 2.0 will make me glad that I didn't. Maybe it is wrong but I really hope those who raced to cap will find they wished they had waited because SE astounds us with all the added content come 2.0. Wishful thinking? Maybe.
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#20 Mar 13 2012 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't have mine exact, but I know I was rattling on about how disciplines of the hand/land are boring compared to magic/war. There's nothing exciting ever going on with those jobs, such as rare items or even experience chains. I suggested they remove the experience system and replace them with the point system they used in FFXI, because it will bring back a gambling element and give you something to be excited about while you're playing those disciplines.
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#21 Mar 13 2012 at 2:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Whales wrote:
Xoie wrote:
What gives 2.0 a chance is bringing new people into a polished, finished world that's been play tested with fun in mind (like they should have done in the first place).


I have a theory, and bear with me as this is out there in the fringe, but a theory that FFXIV's awful launch that many speculated was pushed out earlier desired because of a need to get it to market was actually the best thing for the game.

Think about it. All the things the current dev team says we can't do with the current engine, those either weren't discovered or thought of during the initial build out. It's because we were given an unpolished, incomplete product that allowed an easier internal decision to scrap what we have now and go with something new. Had the old FFXIV team been allowed to 'polish' that product, it might have been much harder for them to be open to the idea of switching engines, clients and server architecture and we'd be stuck with the limitations of the Crystal Tools engine.

Of course this is all speculation and ground in no amount of reality, so it's probably just left as the musings of an aging gamer and writer trying to consume enough coffee to start the day.


I think this was a lesson in being a victim of your own success.

Clearly, SE thought they could cut corners with FFXIV simply because it's a Final Fantasy title and they'd assume their community would blindly keep it afloat while they get paid to polish their first-to-market game. It worked for Microsoft's XBox 360 (RROD problems be damned), right? Why else would the ignore the resounding cries of their beta testers and even their North America offices who said, "Too soon! FFXIV as is will never work in this market."

I mean, it's almost astounding that you'd have Wada, CEO of SE, months before the launch say FFXIV would be a WoW competitor, and months after launch say FFXIV has harmed the Final Fantasy brand. This has been an expensive lesson for SE that they aren't invincible and that their good reputation is not irrevocable.
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