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Great job in 1.21 - Let's Talk Future FFXIV additions.Follow

#1 Mar 14 2012 at 6:28 PM Rating: Decent
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This is a Thread from FFXIV Forums... I'm posting it here to hear the ZAM Community Feedback... for idea's and suggestions
Quote:

General

First off i take my hat off to the entire development team of 1.21 working around the clock to turn this game around. 1.21 Was a great addition and am very excited about a raise in level cap to start experiencing these jobs.

While i was dissapointed with not having to level jobs it actually made more sense to because when level caps get increased that will satisfy my urge. I enjoy they were not implemented "Key and Chest" style like FFXI.

Patch 1.22
Now that 1.21 has come we can only begin to fantasize about future patches now. I understand 1.22 has AF weapons being implemented which is great but i speak off long term additions that should reach FFXIV before or during 2.0 implementation.

Thought, Suggestions, Future patches


What does FFXIV need? Let's be honest, FFXIV was a fail at start but is taking more of its older brother day by day, patch by patch. Going with what work's, Great! I personally Played FFXI for 8 year's because its the best game ive played since FF7.

- Multiple Angles of progression
-Introduction of Alliance and compatible raids (Confirmed for 2.0)
- Raise in level cap to 60 (Confirmed for 2.0?)
- Implementation of advanced jobs (confirmed for 2.0?)
- Public content anyone can join.
- Immersion (A war is coming up, why don't we see increased military activity. (guards walking places, Defense Mechanism being installed by npc's)
-Increased player communication about upcoming aspects of XIV.
- An updated Road-map of Febuary-2013 January.


I believe we need many "NEW" things to do... don't get me wrong FFXIV now has many things to do for the new gamer who may have started a few months ago but i am basing my suggestion for your customer base who have been with you since the start "action cost anyone?" This is in no way shape or form angled towards in a sense "Casual or hardcore" but simply those who progress at a normal rate. What's a normal rate well that's subjective and varies.

Lets take a peak at FFXI

Tiered HNM

Pop's in a random location every hour?


- Wandering Odin is a great example of this. (Gets stronger with each kill)
- HNM in open world, are now tiered..
- Every kill makes the next spawn stronger..
- Take the Aspect below and mix move-sets each spawn.
- Tier's would be from 1 to 10 then reset to 1 after 10th kill.
- Drops become better with each kill.
- Noticeable Strength increase in each tier HNM
1. Increased HP & attack power.
- Resistant to last method of killing. I.E resistant to magic if high % of damage dealt was magic last kill.
(That a great way for linkshell's to plan on the way they want to kill the HNM

- Hyper Notorious Monsters (Allaince required)

- Fafnir & Nighogg (Already being talked about in Dragoon quest line)
- Behemoth & King Behemoth
- Hydra
- Kirin (Needs to make an epic return with great look/animation improvements and new abilities)

These to name a few, one of the most complained about problem in XI was the pop time and camping and i have a simple solution to this:
- Every 6 hours with a 1 hour window of opportunity
- Drop rate is 5-6 pieces with individual percentage according to usefulness/rarity
- 2 drops should be guaranteed (1-6 roll dice instead of percentage)
- Other drops have between 15-20% chance
- Implemented HNM slayer counter: Kill X HNM times choice of drop from NPC
ex, Fafnir slayed 50 times choice of drop (perhaps make some RA/EX to entice killing after all gear is obtained from particular mob)
- Low percent drops could have 75-125 kill counter (unrealistic but realistic method of obtaining for those who claim to go 0/XXX without drop)

HNM Exclusive (Rage after 75 minutes)
- This is to add a versatile play of style to HNM.
Random chance of 3 move-sets
1. one that require kiting (Hard-hitting beast but has ranged that isn't as hard-hitting)
- requires attention 100% of fight
- abilities like "Must keep moving to avoid certain abilities and certain abilities where back must be turned, or no moving required.
2. one that one shot's if kited (Straight tanked with some abilities that require exact position.
3. one one that requires moving a lot (Ifrit nailed this)
Ifrit would be a perfect example of an HNM if he were not instanced.
- Mixture of kiting and tank phases.

These are designed to not be easy, Well-coordinated alliances, Vent, Teamspeak, whatever. Difficulty is easier with repetition and learning as with all NM.

- This weakens camping as those who want to claim as soon as pop... if you your setup is wrong you could wipe.




-Dynamis
This fits into the world of FFXIV original image and would work well here.

[B]- BCNM Faction Leve's used

Perhaps take the Beastcoins of the Beastmen already in the game and apply them for usage here.

Ixali Willowknot's - 50 Faction points
Your are hired as mercenaries to defend an encampment against poaching Ixali Beastmen.
- Gaurenteed reward is Anima restoration of 10 each round and with a chance for gear to drop until round 5.
- There is no level cap
Defense BCNM
10 rounds of Ixali with different job formations each.
- Unsleepable (Players are in love with sleepga)
- Some have increased move speed (Some can be kited, some cannot)
- Some Draw target in
- Some move slow but hit extremely hard
- Timer limit of 20 minutes for Each round.
- Increased difficulty after 5th round.
- only the well-coordinated advance to the high rounds.
- Every round after 5 Guarantee's 1 drop from a loot table of 10 pieces.
- After round 5, rare gear gets incorporated into loot table
- 10th round HNM has a chance drop a very rare weapon.

* Throw in a bunch of variables that make the players - Respond/React/Move/Strategize.
Don't make it simple where mobs just get slept/kited and we just kill 1 by one. This is a Survival BCNM for 10 rounds.
2 Bosses one on 5th round and a HNM possibly taken under their control for the 10th round.


- KSNM

Perhaps take the Beastcoins of the Beastmen already in the game and apply them for usage here.

Offensive KSNM Faction Leve points used
Zahar'ak Base Operation Neutralize
Player's are hired by an anonymous individual who want you to obliterate enemy beastmen.

5 Levels (This happens at nighttime and its dark.

1. 1st level Zahar'ak are unaware that infiltration has occurred and the lightest guards have come to try to defend.

2. 2nd level Zahar'ak Chief has be informed players have infiltrated base and mobilizes sentry's with classes similiar to group formation.

3. 3rd Level Trap! a Zahak'ak Shaman has cursed the 2nd level Teleporter and his split the Group of 8 into 4, They must now withstand 2 rounds of Zahak'ak captain's in a team consisting of 3.
After their defeat a nearby teleporter teleports team to level 4 and rejoins them.

4. 4th Level Zahara's Chief realized his trap has failed and prepare for battle.. he send his most talented captain's to defend the camp. 2 Enraged Zahar'ak warriors (unsleepable)

5. The Zahar'ak Chief realizes his clan has been slain and prepares for battle with the group.

- Sky (Named differently) TBA
- Sea (Named differently) TBA
- ZNM (Rage after 75 minutes)
- Alternative Method to HNM with different drops weaker than HNM counterparts.
- Require's Quest completion
- Uses 40 for Regular (Fafnir) (from 0 leve's 5 days to replenish)
- Uses 56 for King (Nighogg) (From 0 leve's 12 days to replinish)
- 3 ??? (different zones) spots known for their respective style of fighting (Practice for Main HNM) different drops from each to counter guild spamming easier style
- 15 minute ??? repop time.



Player Responses:

Credit to Actionhero for the Below
I’d like to see a change to leves in 2.0... id like to see that leves quests paint a picture with visuals rather than blocks of text. While I love story in the previous FF’s they had a fair combination of reading and action scenes. Also it would be nice to have our adventurers to have some purpose in the world… right now all our characters do is ride along being at the wrong place at the wrong time, not having any sort of impact on the decisions being made around us. Heres how we can do it!

Creating Difficulty and Party Dynamics

In 1.21 SE brought in the concept I was hoping for, where the party is split up into two groups to complete objectives towards a goal (although it’s not perfect it’s a start). In Leves 2.0 I hope that we will need to for example defend the village in 2 or more groups. One group to protect the villagers, the other to take up the front lines and prevent the incoming swam to completely overrun and the third (maybe DOH/DOL) putting out fires or parleying with NPCs (LOL). It would even be nice for disciples of hand and land to help out by putting out fires and reinforcing gates ect…. There should be mini bosses that look different (i.e. different skins, size difference) and should be more challenging than regular enemies by having increased health, and increased damage/defense.

Creating immersion and urgency

In the current leves we get a block of text that no one really reads for a back story that is completely useless for mindlessly killing mobs. In leves 2.0 hopefully when we start a leve (again using the same example with the village) you have to kill a few mobs that pop on us and then talk to a leader of some sort and they say in a short amount of text what to do. This paints a picture with visuals and allows players to feel like they have a purpose while getting right into the action.
I understand that with the current setup we aren’t allowed to see 20+ (?) characters at once which is limiting but in 2.0, but hopefully there are NPC characters that fight with us allowing us to earn bigger rewards for keeping them alive.
Preserving the idea of leves
While these changes seem like it would be changing leves into large scale battles we don’t want to change the entire concept. by keeping them short and sweet we allow hardcore and casual players to do something while waiting for large scale raids and PVP..

Credited to Cichy

Immersion at this point it's one of the biggest problems I have with the game. The world seems disjointed and non responsive.
First of all, the cities and regions are lacking any type of authority. In XI we had President in Bastok, the Royal family in Sandy, and the mages in Windy.
In XIV we had Empress of Uldah in one cs and some general but seeing them is so rare. In XI we had soldiers stationed, you could go visit the palace with soldiers and generals in there. Besieged featured TOAU defenders/generals.
I seemed like cities we're always aware of some type of danger and there was a structure in place in case.
In XIV we have primals and we are facing a garlean invasion which apparently everyone knows about and it seems like nothing is happening.
I would like to see Hall of Flames (and other company headquarters) become a part of the cities that's not in a separate room but rather out in the open. Would be great if units were gathering, generals walking around, etc, etc.

About the Future of Faction Leves
I think that's another part of the game that has lots of potential yet unexplored.
When Tanaka added the few high level leves (Buffalo, Wolves, etc) I thought it was nice. Provided us with few interesting fights and a reward for dreadful leve grinding.
I thought it was a nice start and that we will see expansion of this system.
Lets face it, leves are still boring so atleast dangle a carrot in front of our face with a promise of a cool fight after we complete number of them. I have 1000 points in each Faction and do not even bother currently using them because I've done the other ones and the rewards are outdated or waste of time.
In XI we had BCNM 20, 30, 40, 50, 75, etc, etc. Why not make BCNM type of fights that will be accessed through Faction Leves. It would elevate their value beyond that of grinding exp and occasional 10k gil.
While Company Leves deal with the empire and related content, Faction Leves can deal with super strong beast like monsters and relate to the past of Eorzea.

Some ideas for 2.0 leves

You are placed near a Garlean camp and your mission is to capture a captain who is planning on invading a hamlet. (Leve will end if captain leaves by 15 minute time limit, bonus rewards if Garlean supplies are seized.)

You are placed in a small village that is currently under attack and are required to save as many villagers and houses as possible within a 15 minute time limit. Leve will end if all villages are dead, bonus rewards for houses saved (can only be done by splitting party)

You are placed near a goblin mine and are required to steal/destroy a new goblin bomb prototype. Fighting your way to the end of the zone stealing the bomb would mean you have to fight a goblin head honcho (this will give bonuses) and destroying the bomb would still mean you fight your way out but no boss.
Credit to Actionhero for the Above

Credit to Jinko
I would much prefer them to take something like Ultimate weapons sent by the garlean empire make it massive massive big and spawn in random places around the world, it would require 60-100 people to kill it.

Make it public content so anyone can enter and help.
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Credit to Rydin
Battle regimen needs to come back (More robust and in depth, mind you)
Incapacitation need to matter (I know I say this a lot but I just can't say it enough)
You can even incorporate combos into incaps to allow for special incap objectives on NMs and bosses
More emphasis needs to be placed on damage types (Blunt, slashing, piercing)

Credited to RedAffinity

I'd like to see structured / tiered content. I haven't played too much of other MMO's but in XI there was Sea / Sky / ZNM... i don't want a copy of those events in XIV, but things like THAT. You're rewarded with really great armor, and great challenges, and it takes a long time to obtain. I feel like that kind of endgame is missing in XIV right now.

Credited to Elreed
I would like to see content that is not repetitive, like moogle fight the moogles spawn randomly and its not like u stand here, we stand there and then everything is killed easily, u need to be running around kiting, evading, etc. More like random objectives, random attack waves, random NM's, etc.

So in a few words content that is not boring after a month...

The ones in bold fon't i believe could hold the player base and bring a substantial amount of players back.

These are just suggestions and i'd like to hear some imput of the community... I will edit and add later stuff and additions but this is what i have for now.

Let me know your thoughts on everything, Balance, questions, idea's for other catergories.

Thanks guys for the read!
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#2 Mar 14 2012 at 7:38 PM Rating: Good
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There have been many manifestos on the official forums with plans to turn FFXIV into something like FFXI circa 2004.

My feelings on this have remained constant. It's not 2004, anymore. UT 2004 and Half-Life 2 were great in their day, but you couldn't serve them up again in 2012 as innovative by today's standards. Even FFXI itself has abandoned this type of gaming in its current content releases. Why should FFXIV pick it up?

FFXIV needs to be a modern MMO with fresh ideas, not a tribute to MMOs past that not nearly enough people are interested in anymore to support this game in the future.
#3 Mar 14 2012 at 8:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
There have been many manifestos on the official forums with plans to turn FFXIV into something like FFXI circa 2004.

My feelings on this have remained constant. It's not 2004, anymore. UT 2004 and Half-Life 2 were great in their day, but you couldn't serve them up again in 2012 as innovative by today's standards. Even FFXI itself has abandoned this type of gaming in its current content releases. Why should FFXIV pick it up?

FFXIV needs to be a modern MMO with fresh ideas, not a tribute to MMOs past that not nearly enough people are interested in anymore to support this game in the future.


It's true that some of those ideas are similar to FFXI, but if you look closely, there's improvements to the old concepts. He mentions that HNMs will pop more often, and have realistic drop timelines for players. He also talks about more interactive and dynamic gameplay, which I think XIV is really lacking, such as battle strategy to fix the 99% zergfest. Also, by having these open world encounters, you have more interaction between players, instead of just tunneling each group to its own separate instance.

Quote:
Preserving the idea of leves


I disagree with this. Leves were a terrible concept, showcasing quest types that everyone has always hated in any game, and trying to make it into a main game mechanic. You spend more of your time running around than doing anything interesting, which is compounded by the wonderful idea of having mobs flee ******** across the map for no reason.
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#4 Mar 15 2012 at 2:30 AM Rating: Good
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I'm against it.
Simply because I am against all internet manifestos I didn't have the time to read.
#5 Mar 15 2012 at 3:40 AM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:
There have been many manifestos on the official forums with plans to turn FFXIV into something like FFXI circa 2004.

My feelings on this have remained constant. It's not 2004, anymore. UT 2004 and Half-Life 2 were great in their day, but you couldn't serve them up again in 2012 as innovative by today's standards. Even FFXI itself has abandoned this type of gaming in its current content releases. Why should FFXIV pick it up?

FFXIV needs to be a modern MMO with fresh ideas, not a tribute to MMOs past that not nearly enough people are interested in anymore to support this game in the future.

Agreed, I constantly watching the progress of XIV because on 2.0 I want to return. With XI I am not enjoying voidwatch or Echoes or even the new Nyzul...

With XIV I want it to be like FUN, Excitement!
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#6 Mar 15 2012 at 5:54 AM Rating: Decent
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For everyone still stuck on 2006, here's an idea for you to get as close as possible to that old, nostalgic experience.

1 - Get a group of like minded individuals. I'm pretty sure you can get 1.000+ people with a bit of effort.
2 - Buy / Install FFXI up to the expansion that killed the game for your group.
3 - Everyone join the same server.
4 - Only do content, get items and level up to The Point Where The Game Was Still Fun. Not sure if that's needed without the newer expansions, but if you can get past level 75, just die enough times to get a level drop. (Yay to death penalties!)
5 - ??????
6 - Enjoy and stop these **** "Here's everything from XI. Please port it to XIV. No, I'm not asking for a clone, look, I changed the spawn time from 24hours to 20 tee hee~" threads

Thank you.
#7 Mar 15 2012 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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While I agree making XI-2 isn't what I want from XIV all I can say is that I don't want XIV-wow/swtor/every other mmo nowadays either.

There are good and bad things with everything and I just hope SE can find a way to pick out the good parts in both the old and new and try to create something new and different.
#8 Mar 15 2012 at 7:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Belcrono wrote:
While I agree making XI-2 isn't what I want from XIV all I can say is that I don't want XIV-wow/swtor/every other mmo nowadays either.

There are good and bad things with everything and I just hope SE can find a way to pick out the good parts in both the old and new and try to create something new and different.


Well said.

Many of us look back at our time in FFXI and wish we could experience that again, yet at the same time realize there are facets of that game that just simply wouldn't survive in the modern MMO age. When we speak of the things FFXI did well that we'd like to see in FFXIV, it's not so much that we believe FFXI was the perfect game and should be emulated here with updated graphics, it's more along the lines of we're simply tired of the current methodology for MMO gameplay and the hundreds of those clones that exist right now, and we don't want FFXIV to just be yet another title with that online game play style.

Every company wants their online game to "compete with WoW" which is a sure-fire statement nowadays for MMO failure not because it can't be done, but because it appears consumers are simply getting tired of the similar game play styles and elements in all their online games. There's absolutely no reason to think FFXIV couldn't take the good from FFXI and meld that into a modern, unique MMORPG.

People hate the term 'WoW-clone' because of a myriad of reasons but the simple truth is while there is some variations in the stratifications that make up most modern MMORPG titles right now, for the most part they are all the same: single-player quest-based leveling with icon- and hotkey-emphasized abilities that relegate all substantial character development to endgame instanced dungeons gear-acquisition runs in lieu of character levels. World of Warcraft didn't pioneer these terms, so the term WoW-clone is misleading, but they did bring them to a wider audience and every major MMO since then has ascribed to the same basic online game design philosophy.

And I'm sick of it.
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#9 Mar 15 2012 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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I don't want an updated Final Fantasy XI, I want a new Final Fantasy MMO. If I still wanted FFXI, well I would be playing that instead.

There's something I like about playing different Final Fantasy games, there's a different atmosphere and new areas to explore. I don't want Dynamis XIV style, and I certainly don't want sky/sea XIV style. I've already seen that.
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#10 Mar 15 2012 at 10:06 AM Rating: Default
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for those who didnt bother to read this isnt asking for cloning of FFXI.... its askign to take the SUCCESSFUL concepts on 11 and uniquely/cleverly incorporate them into XIV.

its obvious their taking things from 11 now
Jobs/Auto attack/campaign.

No... i dont want an Updated XI but some of the successful parts of 11 i would like to see... with their own uniqueness and difficulty level.


Actually read the Suggestions in Red and ull see some examples i have come up with.
The concept from 11 is their but its different from what we saw in 11
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#11 Mar 15 2012 at 10:11 AM Rating: Default
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AdvancedWind wrote:
For everyone still stuck on 2006, here's an idea for you to get as close as possible to that old, nostalgic experience.

1 - Get a group of like minded individuals. I'm pretty sure you can get 1.000+ people with a bit of effort.
2 - Buy / Install FFXI up to the expansion that killed the game for your group.
3 - Everyone join the same server.
4 - Only do content, get items and level up to The Point Where The Game Was Still Fun. Not sure if that's needed without the newer expansions, but if you can get past level 75, just die enough times to get a level drop. (Yay to death penalties!)
5 - ??????
6 - Enjoy and stop these **** "Here's everything from XI. Please port it to XIV. No, I'm not asking for a clone, look, I changed the spawn time from 24hours to 20 tee hee~" threads

Thank you.



You and every other person so who isnt smart enough to read the thread..... ITS NOT A ******* "Please clone 11 into 14"
Actually read and its just Suggestions on some of the SUCCESSFUL parts of 11 being included.

I'm not asking for Copy-paste ****. It the Concept but having it own uniqueness and playability to it.
Everytime people like you come and read threads like this... just assume "omg man not another port xi into 14 plz"

NO ONE HERE WANTS XI TO BE XIV. But judging how they failed at appealing to the fan base with the start of this game. now we need familiar concepts that have been successful in the past. Or not so successful but can be changed and implemented.
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#12 Mar 15 2012 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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I'm going to disagree with most of what's written here, as it seems far too similar to what FFXI brought us. HNMs on a six hour timer is going to create the same problems it did in FFXI. It'll be monopolized by a few linkshells dedicated to it, encourage botting and 3am wake up calls, and over 90% of the player base won't have the means or the time to compete. Drops will be sold for extremely high prices (as you've mentioned, you want alternative gear to be weaker than HNM gear so I assume you want HNM gear to be top tier) and that's the only way most players would get their hands on them. FFXIV may need something to reel in new players, but six hour world spawns that require an alliance is not it.

Aside from that, I see a lot of uninspired ideas taken directly from FFXI. You want Kirin to make a return, Dynamis, you want Sky and Sea with new names, and yet you try to make it sound like you're not asking for FFXI-2. I see nothing wrong with pulling the good from FFXI and incorporating it into XIV, like a central Auction House and a party search function, but when your ideas involve things like ripping the exact same mobs and vaguely stating we should have the same end game event in this game as the last one, I just can't agree.
#13 Mar 15 2012 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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Nostalgia is such a powerful emotion, how many times must we read "I wanna replay those golden years in FFXI in 2012" well folks it wont happen, it is the same for the people that played EQ before any other mmo, or insert random MMO, it was your first, it just wont happen again, it is 2012, the type of game model you seem to want, worked for it's time, but it wont work now, it is something that you must all face, no longer are the hardcore crown the cream and crop of the MMO world, you have taken a seat back to the more casual, noob crew of players, who have no time to waste looking for items to pop some monster that you zerg in 3 minutes, or to compete with other groups for a camp/ a HMN etc etc.
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#14 Mar 15 2012 at 1:49 PM Rating: Default
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I think Chuck N. would be an awesome addition...lots of cliche's and Chuck N. jokes...yep. I'd vote for that. :)

BTW Op, thanks for sharing :) Very interesting!

>.>; Yes I changed it... No one has still answered my other post in regards to why my Chuck N. was changed to Allakhazam >.>;

Edited, Mar 15th 2012 9:25pm by LillithaFenimore
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#15 Mar 15 2012 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Nostalgia is such a powerful emotion, how many times must we read "I wanna replay those golden years in FFXI in 2012" well folks it wont happen, it is the same for the people that played EQ before any other mmo, or insert random MMO, it was your first, it just wont happen again, it is 2012, the type of game model you seem to want, worked for it's time, but it wont work now, it is something that you must all face, no longer are the hardcore crown the cream and crop of the MMO world, you have taken a seat back to the more casual, noob crew of players, who have no time to waste looking for items to pop some monster that you zerg in 3 minutes, or to compete with other groups for a camp/ a HMN etc etc.


Not sure where you are going with this. Currently, I consider myself a little more than a casual player, however, for 14 I still lack:
Any Primal Weapon
Most of the FNM gear (If nothing else for the achievement, but I still am trying for them)
Completion of most of the jobs (even though I have gotten every class to 50)
Any of the new dungeon gear
Any good materia gear that I haven't crafted
Any 3x materia gear worth wearing
And I have less then 10 million gil (more than 1 million).

There is still a distinction between casual and hard-core players in 14 (if I understand what you are saying).

Casual players are not as catered to as people seem to think in 14. Yoshi has been working at making it so that people who work at it, and dedicate time to something get rewarded for it. While those who dink away at what they can will reach some goals, but will be unable to keep up with a hard-core player.

And while right now, there is a limited pool of resources to play off of, and most hard-core players will stay ahead of the releases, even then there is a separation (as there are still people like me that don't have a single primal weapon as a perfect example of the difficulty of getting some items). While there are others that have all (or are missing 1-2).
#16 Mar 15 2012 at 2:14 PM Rating: Default
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Uhh. Just saw my post and am I not allowed to say C-H-U-C-K N. on this site or something >_>; I sml censorship!
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#17 Mar 15 2012 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
Just add thief.
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#18 Mar 15 2012 at 5:48 PM Rating: Decent
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rfolkker wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Nostalgia is such a powerful emotion, how many times must we read "I wanna replay those golden years in FFXI in 2012" well folks it wont happen, it is the same for the people that played EQ before any other mmo, or insert random MMO, it was your first, it just wont happen again, it is 2012, the type of game model you seem to want, worked for it's time, but it wont work now, it is something that you must all face, no longer are the hardcore crown the cream and crop of the MMO world, you have taken a seat back to the more casual, noob crew of players, who have no time to waste looking for items to pop some monster that you zerg in 3 minutes, or to compete with other groups for a camp/ a HMN etc etc.


Not sure where you are going with this. Currently, I consider myself a little more than a casual player, however, for 14 I still lack:
Any Primal Weapon
Most of the FNM gear (If nothing else for the achievement, but I still am trying for them)
Completion of most of the jobs (even though I have gotten every class to 50)
Any of the new dungeon gear
Any good materia gear that I haven't crafted
Any 3x materia gear worth wearing
And I have less then 10 million gil (more than 1 million).

There is still a distinction between casual and hard-core players in 14 (if I understand what you are saying).

Casual players are not as catered to as people seem to think in 14. Yoshi has been working at making it so that people who work at it, and dedicate time to something get rewarded for it. While those who dink away at what they can will reach some goals, but will be unable to keep up with a hard-core player.

And while right now, there is a limited pool of resources to play off of, and most hard-core players will stay ahead of the releases, even then there is a separation (as there are still people like me that don't have a single primal weapon as a perfect example of the difficulty of getting some items). While there are others that have all (or are missing 1-2).


Primal wepons are a horrible example, for the only hard part in obtaining them is RNG, that it is, the encounters are a joke, the only hard part is to get a drop out of the horrendous drop rate they have, wish has been debated to death on the official forums, other than that, there is no difficulty in obtaining one, the hard part was made artificially by SE. Also you kinda agreed with me, that the casual crowd is not being the focus of the SE developing team, wish by all means should be, for the current hardcore crowd will not save this game, sure they can cater to them here and there, but they should never be the main focus since they are the vast minority of the market.
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#19 Mar 15 2012 at 10:25 PM Rating: Default
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Well, Thanks anyways for your comments.
I think some fail to see the point behind similiar FFXI content but thats zam.
I'm just suggesting things not everything from 11.
No not FFXI-2, Please stop sayin that..

Similiar names so what.. concepts are being taken


Edited, Mar 16th 2012 12:25am by Blazerman
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#20 Mar 16 2012 at 3:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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I read that whole thing. To summarize, "I'm bored, make FFXI 2.0."

He wants all the old bosses (including Kirin). He wants BCNM/KSNM complete with ridiculous currency grinds. He wants Dynamis.

I appreciate the benefit of drawing a parallel to familiar concepts, but I think it's going a little too far. Some boss mobs are staples to the FF franchise (ie. Behemoth). Some are not.

The concept of Dynamis has been iterated on by numerous games since FFXI. Now they're called raids. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. Of course, there's still that hardcore FFXI element that will insist you have to farm every week just for the privilege of being able to enter the content. I'll tell you straight up that would draw such a phenomenal level of criticism that Yoshida's best bet would be to carry around a small wooden club and beat himself over the head with it every time the thought crossed his mind to gate endgame content behind ongoing grinding for access. It might sound harsh, but it will actually save him a bigger headache in the long run.

BCNM/KSNM encounters have also been iterated on by numerous games since FFXI. They're called dungeons. They don't require currency grinds to enter. They don't have ridonkulous lockout periods. They're gated by challenge relative to reward, and maybe a once/day restriction for the really good rewards.

I mean, I read some of the suggestions and I'm like, "Ya, okay. It's been done before by games that didn't completely botch their launch and have to go into a 2 year rebuilding phase. Clearly the guy coming up with these ideas hasn't played anything since FFXI, which is fine. But still. Golly gee, guy."

Take the whole "random selection of 3 'move sets'" suggestion for HNMs. You have to kite it or your tank will die. Or your tank will die if you try to kite it. Or everyone has to move a lot. Oh, and maybe mix them all up. Kind of vague, but let's look at it from both potential interpretations. One is that the mob spawns with one of the "move-sets" and that's what it uses from pull to kill. Too linear. One-dimensional fight mechanics like that would be the laughing stock of the MMO community. It doesn't matter what else the boss does. "This guy, you kite. All fight long." Hate your tanks much?

But if we're talking about mixing it up, so maybe this phase you kite and this phase you tank and sometimes everyone else has to stand still and sometimes they have to move and it changes throughout the encounter. Hey, if this guy was looking for approval of his ideas he might want to cross-post them to www.eightyearsbehind.org/MMORPGs. He'd be hailed as an innovative genius. Today, all that stuff is status quo. Multi-phase boss encounters with varied mechanics. Nothing new. But if we were to take a page out of Tanaka's book we could make it so that there's no interval or warning of any kind when the phases change, so like one second your tank is kiting along just fine and then bam. Dead. Phase changed. lol. <3 RNG. "Quick, rez the tank! Hurry hurry we're going to wipe! Good job! lolol that was so epic!"

Really?

I check in on XIV from time to time. In many ways it's on track to be a much better game than it's original incarnation a year and a half ago. And in order for it to stay on the right track, the suggestions of the "XI 2.0" crowd need to be taken with a grain of salt.
#21 Mar 16 2012 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
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I would prefer the FFXIV team spend their time making new and unique experiences for FFXIV.

I don't want similar concepts or names or ideas or anything from FFXI to be improved on.
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#22 Mar 16 2012 at 2:14 PM Rating: Default
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Aurelius wrote:
I read that whole thing. To summarize, "I'm bored, make FFXI 2.0."


Wrong. No one here wants XI 2.0 lol

I'm actually have plenty of things of things to do. I could careless about 11 or its idea's but if they are continuing to port over systems i suggested some idea's for the to bring.

What i want is the point of these system beyond the concept a balance of Longevity and difficulty

I would like to see is content that do not simply die out after 3-4 months.
If you have the ability to see beyond the concept.. that thing most of them had in common beyond being in FFXI is that they were being done for years

I could care less about my idea's being put in.
Im suggesting off the concept yes but XIV has already been doing that with many of its systems.
This is simply a template.

You say XI 2.0 when those few events were not even half of everything in XI's endgame. Let be real son


So once again.. not asking for XI 2.0 im asking for content based around longevity.

Edit: excuse the typo's had to type and walk


Edited, Mar 16th 2012 4:16pm by Blazerman
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#23 Mar 16 2012 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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Blazerman wrote:
for those who didnt bother to read this isnt asking for cloning of FFXI.... its askign to take the SUCCESSFUL concepts on 11 and uniquely/cleverly incorporate them into XIV.

its obvious their taking things from 11 now
Jobs/Auto attack/campaign.

No... i dont want an Updated XI but some of the successful parts of 11 i would like to see... with their own uniqueness and difficulty level.


Actually read the Suggestions in Red and ull see some examples i have come up with.
The concept from 11 is their but its different from what we saw in 11



The problem I had was that everything I did read was in FFXI so eventually I stopped reading it because if I wanted all that FFXI is just a URL away.
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#24 Mar 16 2012 at 3:04 PM Rating: Default
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apapertiger wrote:
Blazerman wrote:
for those who didnt bother to read this isnt asking for cloning of FFXI.... its askign to take the SUCCESSFUL concepts on 11 and uniquely/cleverly incorporate them into XIV.

its obvious their taking things from 11 now
Jobs/Auto attack/campaign.

No... i dont want an Updated XI but some of the successful parts of 11 i would like to see... with their own uniqueness and difficulty level.


Actually read the Suggestions in Red and ull see some examples i have come up with.
The concept from 11 is their but its different from what we saw in 11



The problem I had was that everything I did read was in FFXI so eventually I stopped reading it because if I wanted all that FFXI is just a URL away.


No problem i guess i should of been more clear but thats ok Thanks anyway
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#25 Mar 16 2012 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
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The thing with FFXI is that those things where being done for years, because the level cap was not changed and the content being developed was to match the same cap as before, the new content they developed was matched with the one they devolep before, so that even tho an upgrade would be an upgrade any older gear would still be compatible for current content(Not every single gear but some where still viable compared to newer ones)

That model of content development could work, only if SE pushes out content patches constantly, to keep the casual masses entretained, but that would mean that they could never ever increase the cap, because we all know how much the hardcore crowd hates their items being irrelevant by a cap increase <.<
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#26 Mar 16 2012 at 8:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
That model of content development could work, only if SE pushes out content patches constantly, to keep the casual masses entretained, but that would mean that they could never ever increase the cap, because we all know how much the hardcore crowd hates their items being irrelevant by a cap increase <.<


If old gear remains the best gear even in the face of new updates and expansions, you're at risk of having hardcore players get bored and quit because there aren't any new challenges. SE would quite often release new gear in FFXI that wasn't as good as the very best gear, and people would complain that it was a giant waste. Or if they tried to release content that gave a job "a new way of playing" people would usually just write it off as unimportant or get mad that they aren't making their job more powerful in the way they already play it.

Essentially, there's no way to please everyone when it comes to adding new gear and abilities or raising the level cap. Players will either be bitter that they have to get new things, or they'll be bitter they're stuck with old things or given new, but trivial, abilities and gear they don't care for. You can't win.
#27 Mar 16 2012 at 11:26 PM Rating: Default
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It could work, it worked in WOW for a while, HM gear was for the hardcore and regular gear for the more casual folk, they only ****** up with badges and stuff like that, then it went from actually playing PVE or PVP to get gear to go afk in BG'S and in dalaran for badges :/
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#28 Mar 17 2012 at 2:49 AM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
That model of content development could work, only if SE pushes out content patches constantly, to keep the casual masses entretained, but that would mean that they could never ever increase the cap, because we all know how much the hardcore crowd hates their items being irrelevant by a cap increase <.<


That's not something exclusive to the hardcore crowd. There's a lot of the casual crowd who hate their items being made irrelevant every major patch. too. I know a handful of casual players who've quit WoW because of the constant gear grind.

Blazerman wrote:
Wrong. No one here wants XI 2.0 lol

I'm actually have plenty of things of things to do. I could careless about 11 or its idea's but if they are continuing to port over systems i suggested some idea's for the to bring.

What i want is the point of these system beyond the concept a balance of Longevity and difficulty

I would like to see is content that do not simply die out after 3-4 months.
If you have the ability to see beyond the concept.. that thing most of them had in common beyond being in FFXI is that they were being done for years

I could care less about my idea's being put in.
Im suggesting off the concept yes but XIV has already been doing that with many of its systems.
This is simply a template.


I think one of the major successes in FFXI was developing content that kept players entertained for a long time. I don't think they should just copy any idea straight out of XI, but I definitely think they should take a look at how some of the content was designed (and why players liked it so much). I think any discussion about bringing XI ideas into XIV is a positive one, even if it just gets them to take a second look at how that content was designed. That game might be old now, but I feel like there's still plenty of different ways to look at XI concepts, rather than continuing to build off EQ ones like everyone else.

Like NMs or HNMs. Instead of copying over the batch of over-camped monsters with really long spawn times, why not try to create more of the ones with crazy spawn conditions, and make them even crazier? Make me want to figure out the secrets of the zone. Look at Noble Mold, for example. I'm sure whoever figured that one out had a blast. I certainly tried my hardest.
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#29 Mar 17 2012 at 7:46 AM Rating: Good
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Noble Mold, a NM that takes approximately 19-25 hours to spawn, only spawns during rainy weather, and whose respawn timer is completely restarted if the placeholder is killed.

I wouldn't be completely against this in FFXIV as long as there wasn't pressure to get people to do it (such as a top tier drop, which granted Noble Mold didn't have either), but even in FFXI's "glory days" it didn't seem very popular. I never knew a soul who camped or even attempted to camp it as far as I know. If NMs like this were to be added to the game, IMO they would be at best a very niche activity that a few would enjoy but the vast majority would ignore.
#30 Mar 17 2012 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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Susanoh wrote:
Noble Mold, a NM that takes approximately 19-25 hours to spawn, only spawns during rainy weather, and whose respawn timer is completely restarted if the placeholder is killed.


If FFXIV ever returns to FFXI levels of masochistic gameplay, I will never log in again for the rest of the game's life span and they will never see a penny from me toward this game. If SE wants to put FFXIV in its final resting place, it'll look to FFXI for inspiration on gameplay.
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#31 Mar 17 2012 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
reptiletim wrote:
Susanoh wrote:
Noble Mold, a NM that takes approximately 19-25 hours to spawn, only spawns during rainy weather, and whose respawn timer is completely restarted if the placeholder is killed.


If FFXIV ever returns to FFXI levels of masochistic gameplay, I will never log in again for the rest of the game's life span and they will never see a penny from me toward this game. If SE wants to put FFXIV in its final resting place, it'll look to FFXI for inspiration on gameplay.


I agree, but even so there is nothing wrong with taking inspiration from FFXI's gameplay, there is some good stuff in there, bcnm, dyanamis, CoP (with level sync lol)
oh yeah... LEVEL SYNC.
FFXIV already has FFXI's best aspect anyway, the ability to level everything on just one character.
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#32 Mar 17 2012 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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triplealphareaction wrote:
reptiletim wrote:
Susanoh wrote:
Noble Mold, a NM that takes approximately 19-25 hours to spawn, only spawns during rainy weather, and whose respawn timer is completely restarted if the placeholder is killed.


If FFXIV ever returns to FFXI levels of masochistic gameplay, I will never log in again for the rest of the game's life span and they will never see a penny from me toward this game. If SE wants to put FFXIV in its final resting place, it'll look to FFXI for inspiration on gameplay.


I agree, but even so there is nothing wrong with taking inspiration from FFXI's gameplay, there is some good stuff in there, bcnm, dyanamis, CoP (with level sync lol)
oh yeah... LEVEL SYNC.
FFXIV already has FFXI's best aspect anyway, the ability to level everything on just one character.


TBH, the mass exodi that has occured in FFXIV since launch tells me it's a pretty masochistic game...Gotta love pain :P
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#33 Mar 17 2012 at 12:32 PM Rating: Default
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Susanoh wrote:
Noble Mold, a NM that takes approximately 19-25 hours to spawn, only spawns during rainy weather, and whose respawn timer is completely restarted if the placeholder is killed.

I wouldn't be completely against this in FFXIV as long as there wasn't pressure to get people to do it (such as a top tier drop, which granted Noble Mold didn't have either), but even in FFXI's "glory days" it didn't seem very popular. I never knew a soul who camped or even attempted to camp it as far as I know. If NMs like this were to be added to the game, IMO they would be at best a very niche activity that a few would enjoy but the vast majority would ignore.


Many of those pop conditions still aren't concrete. For every person you see that gets the NM to pop within those criteria, another person has had a completely different experience. What people do know is that it's triggered by rainy weather off of a fungus, and it pops more frequently within the rainy season. It's a very interesting NM and it's inspired a lot of people to do some pretty odd research on it, like those within the zam forum. Even though it had a terrible drop, Noble Mold was frequently camped back when I played. I checked it every time I was in Zi'Tah and more frequently than not. there was somebody there.

I don't propose a list full of copycats to this NM, but I think that more NMs with strange pop conditions would be nice. It was just an example of how creative SE could get with their NM system. They were creative their first time through and they had more limitations to deal with. I think there's plenty of room to expand this idea without resorting to bland 20 min respawn NMs, like frequently used in other MMOs.

reptiletim wrote:
If FFXIV ever returns to FFXI levels of masochistic gameplay, I will never log in again for the rest of the game's life span and they will never see a penny from me toward this game. If SE wants to put FFXIV in its final resting place, it'll look to FFXI for inspiration on gameplay.


It will probably have a good bit of both casual and XI hardcore. If you're the kind of person who complains about content they never have to play with, then I think you will have a difficult time.
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#34 Mar 17 2012 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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reptiletim wrote:
If FFXIV ever returns to FFXI levels of masochistic gameplay, I will never log in again for the rest of the game's life span and they will never see a penny from me toward this game. If SE wants to put FFXIV in its final resting place, it'll look to FFXI for inspiration on gameplay.


Because blindly disobeying their past ~8 years of MMORPG experience is what SE did to make FFXIV so dang great in the first place.


Edited, Mar 17th 2012 3:20pm by KaneKitty
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#35 Mar 17 2012 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Honestly, I never, never, NEVER-EVER want to join another game where "camping" (aka "sitting around, staring at a screen while the computer is just wasting energy") is even slightly associated with success or progress.

If we have monsters that "pop at random", I sincerely hope those pops are so absolutely random that no LS whatsoever will have even the slightest chance to camp them. Though I see no way how that would be possible.
#36 Mar 17 2012 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Honestly, I never, never, NEVER-EVER want to join another game where "camping" (aka "sitting around, staring at a screen while the computer is just wasting energy") is even slightly associated with success or progress.

If we have monsters that "pop at random", I sincerely hope those pops are so absolutely random that no LS whatsoever will have even the slightest chance to camp them. Though I see no way how that would be possible.


I'm with you. The 3 hour windows where it popped at 2:59 were just B.R.U.T.A.L. and completely POINTLESS.

I remember camping Merrow No.5 for my Nails. 24 hour spawn with a, freaking I kid you not, 48 hour window. Who the crap came up with that? Thankfully no one really wanted the boots too much so I got them after 4-5 kills but I just don't understand the point of that kind of gameplay. Stupid.
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#37 Mar 17 2012 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes... Cause nothing screams fun like camping ridiculous monsters. Oo; sweet Jesus that is horrible spawn rate.
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#38 Mar 17 2012 at 3:54 PM Rating: Default
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rikkuotaku wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Honestly, I never, never, NEVER-EVER want to join another game where "camping" (aka "sitting around, staring at a screen while the computer is just wasting energy") is even slightly associated with success or progress.

If we have monsters that "pop at random", I sincerely hope those pops are so absolutely random that no LS whatsoever will have even the slightest chance to camp them. Though I see no way how that would be possible.


I'm with you. The 3 hour windows where it popped at 2:59 were just B.R.U.T.A.L. and completely POINTLESS.

I remember camping Merrow No.5 for my Nails. 24 hour spawn with a, freaking I kid you not, 48 hour window. Who the crap came up with that? Thankfully no one really wanted the boots too much so I got them after 4-5 kills but I just don't understand the point of that kind of gameplay. Stupid.


I honestly can't understand how most of the content in XI is fun. but I can understand NMs. It is fun to hunt them, camp against other people, get the claim, and get the drop. It's scary as **** when the NM pops in front of you, gives you an amazing feeling when you actually get the claim, and you can win a small lotto getting the drop. There was no part about it that I didn't see as being a good experience, even if I missed the claim. The sound of silence never drove me crazy camping, I'm a patient little person.

I can't find the fun in something like Dynamis, Sea, or Sky, which seem to be doing the same repetitive task disguised as something less easier to pick on. With Dynamis, unless you're really in with the leaders, you're forced to work the same 2 hour long chore, twice weekly, for months until you've gotten anything useful at all. I know people who spent over half a year getting their Duelist's Chapeau or Assassin's Armlets. That is not fun to me.
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#39 Mar 17 2012 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah I see no fun in camping a monster for so long. That is insane and I think I would go nuts. I have only seriously camped Leapin Lizzy in XI, other than that, the other NM's can kiss my @rse.

Never had a chance to do Sea, Dynamis and Sky, never had the "right" job at the right level for it so I just stayed away from stuff like that.
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#40 Mar 17 2012 at 6:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
rikkuotaku wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Honestly, I never, never, NEVER-EVER want to join another game where "camping" (aka "sitting around, staring at a screen while the computer is just wasting energy") is even slightly associated with success or progress.

If we have monsters that "pop at random", I sincerely hope those pops are so absolutely random that no LS whatsoever will have even the slightest chance to camp them. Though I see no way how that would be possible.


I'm with you. The 3 hour windows where it popped at 2:59 were just B.R.U.T.A.L. and completely POINTLESS.

I remember camping Merrow No.5 for my Nails. 24 hour spawn with a, freaking I kid you not, 48 hour window. Who the crap came up with that? Thankfully no one really wanted the boots too much so I got them after 4-5 kills but I just don't understand the point of that kind of gameplay. Stupid.


I honestly can't understand how most of the content in XI is fun. but I can understand NMs. It is fun to hunt them, camp against other people, get the claim, and get the drop. It's scary as **** when the NM pops in front of you, gives you an amazing feeling when you actually get the claim, and you can win a small lotto getting the drop. There was no part about it that I didn't see as being a good experience, even if I missed the claim. The sound of silence never drove me crazy camping, I'm a patient little person.

I can't find the fun in something like Dynamis, Sea, or Sky, which seem to be doing the same repetitive task disguised as something less easier to pick on. With Dynamis, unless you're really in with the leaders, you're forced to work the same 2 hour long chore, twice weekly, for months until you've gotten anything useful at all. I know people who spent over half a year getting their Duelist's Chapeau or Assassin's Armlets. That is not fun to me.


For me, the fun of events like those that you mentioned came from the teamwork involved and the actual gameplay. A friend and I took a broken linkshell and built it up to the point where we could beat Kirin, and it was one of the coolest things I ever remember doing in that game. Some of us stayed long after we got what we needed just for the fights and to help out everyone else who stuck with us. I get that these events aren't particularly for everyone, maybe another event of your choice is your thing, but at least all of these events are real PVE content with actual gameplay involved. Many NMs people camped did not involve actual PVE gameplay, it was just an odd form of PVP (or, when there was no competition, it was simply a wait) with a random number generator involved. Although I do remember a few cool NMs that were at least fun fights when they finally spawned, like Charybdis and Roc.

Anyway, just pointing out that there's clearly more than one view on what was and wasn't fun about XI. There may be those who found enjoyment in NM camping, but, speaking for myself at least, it's not something I'd ever do purely for enjoyment.
#41 Mar 17 2012 at 7:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Susanoh wrote:
For me, the fun of events like those that you mentioned came from the teamwork involved and the actual gameplay. A friend and I took a broken linkshell and built it up to the point where we could beat Kirin, and it was one of the coolest things I ever remember doing in that game. Some of us stayed long after we got what we needed just for the fights and to help out everyone else who stuck with us. I get that these events aren't particularly for everyone, maybe another event of your choice is your thing, but at least all of these events are real PVE content with actual gameplay involved. Many NMs people camped did not involve actual PVE gameplay, it was just an odd form of PVP (or, when there was no competition, it was simply a wait) with a random number generator involved. Although I do remember a few cool NMs that were at least fun fights when they finally spawned, like Charybdis and Roc.

Anyway, just pointing out that there's clearly more than one view on what was and wasn't fun about XI. There may be those who found enjoyment in NM camping, but, speaking for myself at least, it's not something I'd ever do purely for enjoyment.


I had very similar experiences with NMs, as well. Many of them were very difficult and risky fights unless you were overmanning. NMs like Ash Dragon, Tzee Xicu, and Voluptuous Vivian were all extremely difficult fights with small numbers.

If you want to look at NMs and see a bunch of bored people sitting around AFK at King Arthro waiting to spam their /targetnpc macro. or staring mindlessly into the fields at Simurgh hoping a bot doesn't teleport in front of them, than you're giving yourself a bad picture.
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#42 Mar 17 2012 at 8:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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I remember the first time I snuck down to the bottom of KRT to see VRTRA b/c she was up... I can still remember the adrenaline and awe I felt. I miss that. That's why I don't like instanced dungeons. There's nothing about an instance that makes you feel lucky. But I felt lucky that night to see Vrtra. And I never felt slighted that I didn't get to claim her. I actually felt honored to get eaten by her :D

Edited, Mar 17th 2012 10:33pm by ChaChaJaJa
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#43 Mar 17 2012 at 8:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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ChaChaJaJa wrote:
I remember the first time I snuck down to the bottom of KRT to see VRTRA b/c she was up... I can still remember the adrenaline and awe I felt. I miss that. That's why I don't like instanced dungeons. There's nothing about an instance that makes you feel lucky. But I felt lucky that night to see Vrtra. And I never felt slighted that I didn't get to claim her. I actually felt honored to get eaten by her :D


Hey, the same thing happened to me and Serket. A memory I'll always have, and you put it all very well. : )
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#44 Mar 17 2012 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
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ChaChaJaJa wrote:
I remember the first time I snuck down to the bottom of KRT to see VRTRA b/c she was up... I can still remember the adrenaline and awe I felt. I miss that. That's why I don't like instanced dungeons. There's nothing about an instance that makes you feel lucky. But I felt lucky that night to see Vrtra. And I never felt slighted that I didn't get to claim her. I actually felt honored to get eaten by her :D

Edited, Mar 17th 2012 10:33pm by ChaChaJaJa


I think just about everyone who plays XI can relate to this story a little bit. This is the reason that I like NMs.
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#45 Mar 18 2012 at 1:17 AM Rating: Decent
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I liked the luck factor in some of it, but insane spawn windows and waits just sucked. I don't mind an hour or two but 24 hours is too much. Shadow of the north for e-bow is the one i remember and that drop rate was horrible!
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Seraph LVL 80 War,80 RNG, 63 DNC, 40 NIN, 40 sam, 40 thf , 18 MNK

SAN D' Oria Rank 10
#46 Mar 18 2012 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
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I think they should randomize the NM spawn windows. After an hour (maybe longer for HNM's) the window reopens with a low % of pop prob. That % goes up each hour until it pops. They could increase drop rates but make all NM drops R/EX. They could find another way to get items like that into the economy, but not via NM camping because it just encourages domination by LS's.

I have to be honest with you when I say that the only thing I didn't like about the NM system in XI was the gilsellers. When they changed the drops to R/EX that really helped a lot. I like the idea of a mob deep in a dungeon that no one kills for weeks at a time. One of my favorite quests of all time was the rank up quest where you had to touch the magicite in the three beastman strongholds. That single quest was so epic. And I saw mobs that I didn't kill until a year or two later when I was muuuuch stronger.

I know everyone says there's no market for an MMO that's anything but casual friendly and easy, but I disagree with that. So many people that post talk about how they really don't want something that's the equivalent of ramen noodles in video game form- quick, easy, but not giving you that sated feeling. We only play them because we aren't being given a better alternative. I bet if someone produced it, it would make money. Maybe not compete with WoW, but who gives a ****. WoW was honestly "right place right time". The pendulum had swung in that direction.

Now I find myself missing adventure. And I know, based on what I read, that others feel the same. I used to get so excited to go low-man an optical hat for someone. And I got excited for the whole thing. The process. Running through the jungle past lowbies at mandy camp. Stopping to kill a gob for them. Sneaking down through the Den b/c you had max tonberry hate. And laying a whoopin on the hopping taco, which could still be tricky if your group was small.

Yes I am a grown up now... no, I can no longer play video games at the level that I used to from a time commitment standpoint. But, honestly, I would gladly play a game that was similar to XI as far as content and pacing just because it evoked a whole lot more feeling than going from lvl 41-50 at wolf camp in 90 minutes. Yes I do enjoy XIV, but not like I enjoyed XI. I remember it took my static 9 months to complete CoP and the dual ZM/CoP storyline. We played for three hours every sunday. I would gladly do something like that again. I still talk to some of those folks today, and I haven't played a video game with them in years.

Sorry I got lost on memory lane. Truth is, I really don't want an FFXI clone, but I do want the FFXI experience. Being R50 in XIV doesn't mean anything... being a 75 BST in XI was like a goddamned purple heart. Yes XI infuriated me and took me to some horrible lows, but those lows were actually an integral part of the gaming experience because without that feeling of misery, how could you possibly ever feel a sense of accomplishment when you finally beat the boss, or got the drop etc.

All experiences in life are based on contrast. In order to put something "good" in context, you have to have experienced something "bad". Maybe gamers are just too busy to have time for "bad" now. They want nothing but "good" nonstop. That's fine. But don't whine when "good" feels hollow, because it's a byproduct of that which you've demanded.
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BlueLand wrote:
You can always take a screen shot of the 1017 error and set it to your desktop background, its like playing FFXIV from work
#47 Mar 18 2012 at 2:56 PM Rating: Good
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I'm kind of confused. At launch XIV had all kinds of timesinks going on hovering close to a masochistic level. They removed all the tedium and are now even adding things like rested bonus similar to another mmo. And now the die hard old XI players are asking for that masochism to return. Guys, you the players requested for Tanaka to get the boot. Yoshida and Tanaka are two different project leads, each with different outlooks. So don't expect the games to be mirrors of each other.

People always talk about how XI gave their favorite memories. Well, it might have. Or part of that was due to it being the first hardcore mmo you played. It popped your cherry. You can never have your cherry back, it belongs to Tanaka. Some might say it was one of those games that took a long time to earn everything which made things more meaningful. Depending on your view it might possibly mean that. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

Sure XI has been around a long time sustaining 200ish-500k max subscribers. But compared to other big mmos like TOR, WoW, etc. The profit and fanbase held is like peeing in the ocean. The truth of the matter is that SE wanted a bigger slice of that pie in making a new mmo. They failed at first because they don't live by the philosphy"Release it when it is ready and not a day sooner."

All that said, I did love XI for seven years. I feel the formula for success is not obvious timesinks, because that pretty much guarantees your playerbase will always be small. Here's how I think some of the XI soul could come into XIV without becoming a clone:

-Extremely Challenging Content for full party play
-Story driven semi-hard challenging play for solo/duo(to bring in FF fans/friends who are not used to mmos)
-Alliance content
-Level 75-80 Hard Cap for first 2/3 of XIV's life(Design zones and gear to always be viable in certain situations)
-A flexible payment plan(If the game requires psn plus, some gamers may not like paying mmo fee on top of psn service and isp)
-Fast, fluid, almost instant purchasing and buying(I was a strong supporter of the MW since launch, but so many others just plain dislike it.)
-Clever, deep itemzation with forethought and planning over the long haul.
-Offer some form of PvP(Check)
-Reformation of guildleves into repeatable episodic story driven content(A different playstyle for each leve stained glass, remember all those cards?)
-Introduce many different various types of gameplay.(Copy, Refine, Reshape, content from XI and other mmos)
-Design unique content that has never really been seen in mmos.(This type of content will require a test server and copious amounts of feedback and refinement before it goes gold.)
-Design a game that:
1.Requires short burst play sessions over long periods of time to steadily progress.
2.Have short term, long term, and career goals.
3.Continue streamlining the game. Even those nitpicky, ticky tacky, small things add up over time to annoy alot of players.
4.Push out content much faster than you did previously in XI.

I mentioned copying XI in some aspects. They should copy XI in some things. I'm not gonna sugar coat it and pretend I don't want some things flat out copied like some people. Games copy games, some are more obvious than others. Even genious men use what came before when inventing something. This is the same problem SE offline rpgs are going through now. Adding stuff is all fine and dandy. We might like some of it or dislike some of it. When you build a house, you start with a foundation. You then add things to the house to make it unique. But when the foundation sinks or dissapears. The house begins to sink.

Don't lose or turn your nose up at your heritage or roots!



#48 Mar 18 2012 at 4:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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sandpark wrote:
I'm kind of confused. At launch XIV had all kinds of timesinks going on hovering close to a masochistic level. They removed all the tedium and are now even adding things like rested bonus similar to another mmo. And now the die hard old XI players are asking for that masochism to return. Guys, you the players requested for Tanaka to get the boot. Yoshida and Tanaka are two different project leads, each with different outlooks. So don't expect the games to be mirrors of each other.


Tanaka got the boot because management decided to pull him for launching a sinking ship not because of player outcry demanding his ouster.

Second, it's not as simple as timesinks versus no timesinks. Ultimately, an MMO, particularly a subscription based one, is designed to take time. Otherwise, there's no need for a subscription if you can polish it off in an afternoon. What's important are activities that balance play time with RL that are enjoyable. Content that takes time is fine, as long as it can be done in reasonable chunks of time, and it carries a sense of adventure to it. Where you get problems is when that content is rife with repetitive tedium (grindgrindgrindgrind), or makes unreasonable demands of your time to complete (like 48 hour spawn windows).
#49 Mar 18 2012 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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124 posts
sandpark wrote:
Guys, you the players requested for Tanaka to get the boot. Yoshida and Tanaka are two different project leads, each with different outlooks. So don't expect the games to be mirrors of each other.


I don't think anyone is expecting those two games to be mirrors of each other. They're already completely different games, and they will never be similar to each other. Even if they copied the content over, they would function very differently because of the way the game is designed.
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Blynk [Gilgamesh] Blynk [Bodhum]
#50 Mar 18 2012 at 7:47 PM Rating: Decent
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230 posts
I reactivated my account today and logged in for the first time since December and i am impressed. They seem to be on the right track now with the job/class system and the flow of combat. And, if it only gets better from here then i see no reason not to keep playing. I am actually a little overwhelmed with things to do which is a good thing. And most of all its nice to see plenty of parties forming to do raids and gain exp when im in Uldah. I cant wait til the population picks up and the other towns are like that because i really like LL the best and sometimes Uldah can get old. Good job SE im glad you guys have put so much work into reviving this game and i believe 2.0 will be nothing short of excellence.

Unfortunately i doubt this game will ever be at the top of the mmo scene just because of the bad launch but i think it can hold its own. And that concept art for 2.0 is so badass.. i love that battle "concept screenshot" with the guys chocobo in battle with them. That is just to awesome for words.
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#51 Mar 18 2012 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
15 posts
What concept art? Please post link, I want to see!!
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