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#1 May 10 2012 at 6:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Just wondering if the game is worth coming back too? I love the graphics but back when I played the quests were slim and the grind was long, I kept my service active and tried to play many times but everything was so time consuming and slow that it was hardly worth it, now I'm wondering what's changed and if I should give it another shot or not?
#2 May 10 2012 at 7:07 PM Rating: Good
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I had to make an account to say this lol....but this is not your type of game.
#3 May 10 2012 at 7:11 PM Rating: Default
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if you liked ffxi, I think it's worth a 2nd try. the game has come along way since beta.
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#4 May 10 2012 at 7:24 PM Rating: Default
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You can say whatever you want, I've played many MMOs and this game is by FAR the largest grind there is, I love the scenery and the graphics and from what I understand it's getting yet another overhaul but regardless I'm looking for more information on what's changed, WHEN I played there were VERY few quests, you were limited in how many you could take ect, this included VERY limited job quests for end game use.
#5 May 10 2012 at 10:02 PM Rating: Good
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It may help to mention how long it's been since you've played last. They've been steadily adding new quests each patch. Most of the quests you obtain by running around town and talking to NPCs. When you hit 25+, they've been adding quests involved with the grand company's. They are mainly telling the story that is leading up to the events the bring on the 7th umbral era through the grand company quests. If it's been a long time since the last time you've played, it is worth coming back. If you are worried about the grind, I can say that I've leveled goldsmithing from 3-22 in less than 24 hours. It's a bit slower for battle classes, but I do know that if you are diligent about doing the lev quests (main solo way to level up) you can level up fairly quickly. A LS mate of mine went from 40-50 in 3 days soloing her levs. Levs will get old though, and it will become a grind. If you do come back and decide to stay, I'd suggest finding a LS with many new players so you can all level up together. Don't count on a PL. People don't hand those out as much as people seem to think. In short, if you've played since they started pay to play (January), it hasn't changed much except that they've added new dungeons and other little things like hamlet defense and a couple primal battles. If you haven't played since the major battle changes, then you should come back just to see the difference and I know you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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#6 May 11 2012 at 12:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Unfortunately it is still really grindy. They really need to chop tnls by at least a third.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#7 May 11 2012 at 3:50 AM Rating: Good
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I feel tnls in this game is much less than on FFXI for example before they started with Abyssea stuff. I feel however there's little to do until you hit level 50, the storylines and quests and such only is good for one playthrough.
#8 May 11 2012 at 4:53 AM Rating: Default
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Havent played since before the fees, my favorite game of all time is FFXI so i am gonna give it another shot, dont think i had any jobs past lvl 20.
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#9 May 11 2012 at 5:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Heres my 2 pence

Currently returned to give it a second try but only having jobs around level 20 im finding it a slog again to level up, Not that I dont mind this but I just cannot find anyone to party with. Im shouting / asking repeatedly looking for a shell to join to try and get some enjoyment but with every hour that passes im just giving up hope. I have searched forums as well but with no joy. It seems that if your not high leveled nobody is interested in you.

Shame really
#10 May 11 2012 at 5:23 AM Rating: Good
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Still slow laggy and choppy, maybe its my system but the dealbreaker is still no AH, I'm out.
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#11 May 11 2012 at 6:48 AM Rating: Decent
This game is very easy to level up. Way more so than FFXI was back when I played between 2006-2009. With PL, 99 leve's and very decent exp groups you can get a level 50 job in about a week which I think is a little sad to be honest. If you don't want to grind then this really is not the game for you however if you get used to doing the grind the journey is more than worth it. This game is never ever going to be one that people aren't going to be asking 'Is it better yet?' and the replies are always going to be varied between those that still play and enjoy, those that don't play anymore and still want everyone to know their opinion (totally justified) and those that think the game is an absolute flop. A disproportionate percentage of the threads on Zam nowadays are like this one and it's sad because I wish the threads were more about game related things to help people, what people have discovered etc. But that's forums for you.
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#12 May 11 2012 at 7:47 AM Rating: Excellent
EdyNOTB, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
This game is very easy to level up. Way more so than FFXI was back when I played between 2006-2009. With PL, 99 leve's and very decent exp groups you can get a level 50 job in about a week which I think is a little sad to be honest. If you don't want to grind then this really is not the game for you however if you get used to doing the grind the journey is more than worth it. This game is never ever going to be one that people aren't going to be asking 'Is it better yet?' and the replies are always going to be varied between those that still play and enjoy, those that don't play anymore and still want everyone to know their opinion (totally justified) and those that think the game is an absolute flop. A disproportionate percentage of the threads on Zam nowadays are like this one and it's sad because I wish the threads were more about game related things to help people, what people have discovered etc. But that's forums for you.


This is the issue though with leveling, no random stranger is going to plvl you, leve's get old fast and exp groups...I shouted for awhile and got 0 replies. There seems to be plenty of people shouting for 40+...but I'm not anywhere near there. If there was ONE thing SWTOR got right it was leveling, whether it was solo or in group, and I hope 2.0 somehow follows that trend (though I doubt it will).

This is what's worrysome about 2.0, if everyone gets to keep all their jobs at level 50, who the **** is going to want to join, revamp or not? Sometimes I wished they would just wipe all data and make everyone start fresh, but I understand that would **** off the player base that's been so faithful and willing to pay. So it's obviously not an option. On the other hand, if you want to attract loads of new players, it'd be best for that. We can say they'll raise the level cap, but again everyone will be ahead while you're playing catch up, the old school players will be doing new content while you're playing catch up. Sure, go at your own pace, but the best part of an MMO is when everything is fresh for everyone, not when 80% of the population will be doing everything new and the rest trying to level.

I do think FFXIV will be around for quite awhile with the base they have now as they seem quite dedicated, if they can keep the 10 servers moderately full, it'll work out pretty well. Though, to make the game what it should of been, I doubt it'll ever happen even with 2.0 simply cause all these dedicated players will be too far ahead of the curve. This welcome back campaign is showing, those who left cause they couldn't get parties or level in groups, are still having a hard time, is 2.0 going to change that? Probably not.
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#13 May 11 2012 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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Just a note: You don't need a PL to level you. Leves alone will do so I've been proving that point since I came back and I've gone from 32 to 47 in what I would call about 3 dedicated days of game-play. (Spread out over time as I work two jobs.)

The process is pretty much this - Do quests around your level area (Guild Quest, Job Quest) then do Leves. Make sure you're doing Leves at about your level (Higher if you can manage it as it will grant you XP Chains.) It should take about 2 rounds (8 Leves) for a level with this process with XP chains. Having Rested XP (Log out in your Inn for rested XP when you're not playing.) will secure this method for you.

You'll average about a level per hour - which is good pacing for an MMO, in my opinion. As you go from camp to camp, your Leves start to vary a little. Battle Leves are still pretty much "Go to Location, kill monsters, proceed to next location." But the context surrounding it changes a bit. (Chase Down X monster. Investigate X point. Hunt X monster posing as another monster, defend X point for set periods of time.)

I've got one Leve in my current set that has me patrolling points for a specific amount of time - too short to kill the monsters that spawn when I reach the patrol point. The end monsters spawn when you finish patrolling all areas, so what results is I get ambushed while I'm busy fighting at one of the patrol areas. It gets pretty frantic. (I've learned the hard way that the best thing to do at that point is flee and return once they've lost agro.) So it's not all boring, but yeah, it can get to be a grind if that's all they do. That's why I recommend the random bouts of questing in between.
#14 May 11 2012 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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Olorinus wrote:
Unfortunately it is still really grindy. They really need to chop tnls by at least a third.


Only on gathering, everything else is pretty quick. If you need a hand and I'm on send me a /tell. I won't PL you but I'd be happy to kill stuff with ya.
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#15 May 11 2012 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Heres my 2 pence

Currently returned to give it a second try but only having jobs around level 20 im finding it a slog again to level up, Not that I dont mind this but I just cannot find anyone to party with. Im shouting / asking repeatedly looking for a shell to join to try and get some enjoyment but with every hour that passes im just giving up hope. I have searched forums as well but with no joy. It seems that if your not high leveled nobody is interested in you.

Shame really


I agree with most of this. A friend and I rejoined last night for the free trial and doing a few leves (8 with 2 leve linked) we barely scrapped together a level in about an hour and a half to two hours. We went from 21-22, and around the 20's is where a lot of people seem to say it slows down. Now I remember back when they nerfed the xp per leve that it seemed everyone was complaining about a certain level range gettting hit the hardest (almost disproportionally so), SE had agreed and said they were looking into fixing it. I'm just wondering if maybe that could be what it is.

We were doing level 20 leves at 2 stars, and the mobs were dropping around 200-230 xp a kill (with chain bonus) , with about 2k xp for completion. A couple were worth about 5k or so total, most though were only 3k or so total. I'm hoping resting xp will help this out a bit because I kinda wanted to hit 30 before the time was up but with these numbers seems I'll have to grind more instead of getting to explore what new changes the game has to offer.

I'll say that I can see the game being fun, but I'd say it's going to be harder to have fun if you're just joining or are re-joining at a lower level. Lack of parties and the grind are going to kill this game for some people, and the gil disparity between old and newer players will scare off some of the others. Even some simple low level stuff on my server are so out of price that it'd probably take a few weeks of leves to get and this is only some under 20 gear.

Just a few questions (I'm sorry to ask but a lot of references for this game I used to use are terribily outdated):
1. Is there some sort of cap on how much rested xp will accumulate? Like is there a certian point that resting in the inn won't accumulate additional rested xp?
2. When I was buying bontanist tools from the guild a lot of the weapons had giant red X's on them, what exactly do these X's represent.
3. I remember reading something about Ifirt having a lower level fight version (level 30 I think), are Garuda and the moogle fights the same way? And around how many people would be needed to take on these fights at 30?
#16 May 11 2012 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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Probably gonna get downrated to the gutter, but I wanted to chime in on this issue because I actually care about this game, but SE's design decisions and business policies keep pushing me away from it.

Case in point: the grind is something SE is going to have to move away from. It's simply not passable game-design anymore, and the longer they cling to it the faster their fan base will diminish. People don't want to pay their money to do the same thing repetitively over and over... that's how we work for our money. We want to spend our time playing the game by adventuring.

Now, the old model, the model they used in FFXI a decade or so ago is the idea that you place leveled content for the players to experience and then use the leveling mechanics as a pace-car. By managing the rate at which players progress, you can keep them playing longer and thus paying more.

That kind of model is outdated. It doesn't draw people anymore the way it used to. Ten years ago, the U.S. and World economies weren't in as bad shape, people had a bit better job security, and a bit more free time, college tuition debt wasn't as bad... you get the point. Now people have less time and money to be spending on entertainment... but they're still going to spend the money. You just have to have a product that's going to appeal to them, you can't just assume on brand loyalty to carry you through if there's nothing to be loyal too.

Especially if you're still trying to milk loyalty from decades-old titles.

The management of FFXIV has been deplorable. In the early days, the game was nigh unplayable. Updates have been slow. If by this point they are still using grind to pad out the lack of content... then I'll look elsewhere to spend my money for entertainment.

It isn't just the business practices. Like I said, I disagree fundamentally with many of their design decisions; they implemented the classic Jobs, for example, in precisely the way I was hoping they wouldn't, turning what was an interesting, open class-creation system (the Armory System) into something even more restrictive than FFXI's class system: imagine if you could only physically select one combination of Main Class/Subjob... you could only ever play as a Pld/War for example, or a Rdm/Whm. This is EXACTLY the problem that players decried in FFXI as limiting (and it was a community issue as much as a design issue, because there were certain combinations that were ideal, and the players would not accept anything less than ideal in FFXI).

As I argued a year ago, the problem with class-role differentiation doesn't need to be fixed by focusing jobs tightly on specific roles, rather you need to define specific roles necessary for the party and let players decide how to fill those roles, something that FFXIV has lacked. Instead, again, they took a system that was supposed to be inherently customizable and made it static and uninteresting.

In any case, this is all moot I think. They'll maintain their core supporters, but as the fantastic, progressive titles like FFVII and FFXI fade farther into the past, and the games SE does produce continue to decline in quality, they won't have younger generations of gamers clinging to their franchise. Now is the time for SE to reinvent the brand. In fact, I would go so far as to say now is a pivotal time for them; the brand is undergoing reinvention whether they like it or not, and if they stick to their old way of doing business, then I'm afraid their brand is not going to survive the transition in very good shape.

This is not to trash the game, or the company, or to troll anyone here on the forums. I honestly would love to come back to FFXIV, but they're going to have to adapt to a changing industry or else I'll simply find my entertainment elsewhere, notably with games that don't require me to devote time I don't have to doing things I'd rather not be doing.

I know, I know, don't let the door hit me on the way out, right?

A word of warning though, guys... that attitude leads to vacant servers and plugs being pulled.
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#17 May 11 2012 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
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Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
Olorinus wrote:
Unfortunately it is still really grindy. They really need to chop tnls by at least a third.


Only on gathering, everything else is pretty quick. If you need a hand and I'm on send me a /tell. I won't PL you but I'd be happy to kill stuff with ya.


Eh, it is just the 40040995934895898934 TNLs that I find really depressing. I actually don't find the gathering as bad, but I just can't be ***** to grind endlessly solo on the same leves I did two years ago to level up my thm.

Also I can't even explain how sad it was for me to log in and find a lot of the abilities I loved, gone forever. I am going to write a little post about my experiences so far to make things a little more clear.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#18 May 11 2012 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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GaliC, you express a lot of concerns, but with no openess to have them addressed.

You approach this with a closed mind and a upturned nose, and it's difficult to express that.

You stated you grinded Leves with your friend? At what difficulty and level? Solo, I could get a level an hour fairly easily, and you're saying you're at half that pacing. Something seems off to me here and I'd like to help out.

Also, for example, you argue against the Job system and the fact that you only have a specific amount of set options. You complain heavily about it, but you do so in the absolute neglect of the fact that the class system still exists, and is still flexible. There are fights, partciuarlly Ifirit, where Classes are still put to use over Jobs. Granted, Class Stacking is still a problem in some cases, but I think this issue can be resolved fairly simply or very interestingly, depending on what SE does with it.

As far as abilities gone for ever, yeah, mages got the shaft a bit when they re-arranged abilities. But combat in general has an overall better feel for it. Still, some other abilities, like Doomspike 1, 2, just got rolled in together, and are not gone forever.

I mean - I'd love to sit and figure things out with you guys, but it just feels like you're not interested enough for the conversation to continue.
#19 May 11 2012 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
GailC wrote:
Probably gonna get downrated to the gutter, but I wanted to chime in on this issue because I actually care about this game, but SE's design decisions and business policies keep pushing me away from it.

Case in point: the grind is something SE is going to have to move away from. It's simply not passable game-design anymore, and the longer they cling to it the faster their fan base will diminish. People don't want to pay their money to do the same thing repetitively over and over... that's how we work for our money. We want to spend our time playing the game by adventuring.

Now, the old model, the model they used in FFXI a decade or so ago is the idea that you place leveled content for the players to experience and then use the leveling mechanics as a pace-car. By managing the rate at which players progress, you can keep them playing longer and thus paying more.

That kind of model is outdated. It doesn't draw people anymore the way it used to. Ten years ago, the U.S. and World economies weren't in as bad shape, people had a bit better job security, and a bit more free time, college tuition debt wasn't as bad... you get the point. Now people have less time and money to be spending on entertainment... but they're still going to spend the money. You just have to have a product that's going to appeal to them, you can't just assume on brand loyalty to carry you through if there's nothing to be loyal too.

Especially if you're still trying to milk loyalty from decades-old titles.

The management of FFXIV has been deplorable. In the early days, the game was nigh unplayable. Updates have been slow. If by this point they are still using grind to pad out the lack of content... then I'll look elsewhere to spend my money for entertainment.

It isn't just the business practices. Like I said, I disagree fundamentally with many of their design decisions; they implemented the classic Jobs, for example, in precisely the way I was hoping they wouldn't, turning what was an interesting, open class-creation system (the Armory System) into something even more restrictive than FFXI's class system: imagine if you could only physically select one combination of Main Class/Subjob... you could only ever play as a Pld/War for example, or a Rdm/Whm. This is EXACTLY the problem that players decried in FFXI as limiting (and it was a community issue as much as a design issue, because there were certain combinations that were ideal, and the players would not accept anything less than ideal in FFXI).

As I argued a year ago, the problem with class-role differentiation doesn't need to be fixed by focusing jobs tightly on specific roles, rather you need to define specific roles necessary for the party and let players decide how to fill those roles, something that FFXIV has lacked. Instead, again, they took a system that was supposed to be inherently customizable and made it static and uninteresting.

In any case, this is all moot I think. They'll maintain their core supporters, but as the fantastic, progressive titles like FFVII and FFXI fade farther into the past, and the games SE does produce continue to decline in quality, they won't have younger generations of gamers clinging to their franchise. Now is the time for SE to reinvent the brand. In fact, I would go so far as to say now is a pivotal time for them; the brand is undergoing reinvention whether they like it or not, and if they stick to their old way of doing business, then I'm afraid their brand is not going to survive the transition in very good shape.

This is not to trash the game, or the company, or to troll anyone here on the forums. I honestly would love to come back to FFXIV, but they're going to have to adapt to a changing industry or else I'll simply find my entertainment elsewhere, notably with games that don't require me to devote time I don't have to doing things I'd rather not be doing.

I know, I know, don't let the door hit me on the way out, right?

A word of warning though, guys... that attitude leads to vacant servers and plugs being pulled.


I understand what you're saying and where you are coming from, I completely agree. :)

Olorinus wrote:
Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
Olorinus wrote:
Unfortunately it is still really grindy. They really need to chop tnls by at least a third.


Only on gathering, everything else is pretty quick. If you need a hand and I'm on send me a /tell. I won't PL you but I'd be happy to kill stuff with ya.


Eh, it is just the 40040995934895898934 TNLs that I find really depressing. I actually don't find the gathering as bad, but I just can't be ***** to grind endlessly solo on the same leves I did two years ago to level up my thm.

Also I can't even explain how sad it was for me to log in and find a lot of the abilities I loved, gone forever. I am going to write a little post about my experiences so far to make things a little more clear.


I also agree with this. :)



To be honest, the only fast way of leveling that I'm understanding is to have a level 50 bump you through to level 40 and from there it's easy as caik but that shouldn't be how it is... The story should be indulging and the leveling should come from the story, end game should be about loot grinding ect, I love grinding dungeons but grinding to get to the point where you can do that is beyond tiresome, I'm not a child.. I have real life to attend to, I work 50-60 hours a week and the time I spend gaming I would like to enjoy it, not grind it.

*Waits 5 more days!!*


Edited, May 11th 2012 6:10pm by Disposition96
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