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Producer letter and player poll results are upFollow

#1 May 28 2012 at 5:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Go check it out while it's still hot.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/46535-Letter-from-the-Producer-XXVIII-(05-28-2012)

It also contains a fraction of the player poll results. Which says that everybody is happily playing the
game for more than 4 hours a day. Now that's interesting. And then there's the passage that says

Sorry folks, we didn't manage to finish the trailer for the E3,
but hey, we have some new password protected paying-customer exclusive website in
planning for sometime soon after E3 has ended. That one will surely draw in the masses.


Draw your flame swords, oh ye mighty whiteknights! ^.-/

Edited, May 28th 2012 8:06am by Rinsui
#2 May 28 2012 at 5:58 AM Rating: Good
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What a disappointing way to start the week. The TL;DR is:

Not much to see here. Old players poll. No real E3 reveal. Promise of news. Oh, and a wallpaper.
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#3 May 28 2012 at 6:01 AM Rating: Good
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I think they are gun-shy and scared honestly.

I can't blame them but knowing how SE PR works I can see how this is going to play out.
#4 May 28 2012 at 7:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
Sorry folks, we didn't manage to finish the trailer for the E3

They finished the trailer...
Yoshi wrote:
The devs, Visual Works, Sound, PR—everyone did their part and the trailer itself was completed and ready for release at E3.

They're going to sit on it and not release it until August.
Yoshi wrote:
We came to the conclusion that the most effective way to introduce version 2.0 to the world would be with a flood of new material rather than just a trickle.

A freaking drop would be a flood at this point. You're going on 3 years later Yoshi... why would you not want to introduce this where it would be most likely to draw attention? It would be one thing if it wasn't done, but they're going to sit on it? Brilliant.

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30 bucks is almost free

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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#5 May 28 2012 at 7:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
They finished the trailer... Yoshi... why would you not want to introduce this where it would be most likely to draw attention? It would be one thing if it wasn't done...


Oh come on. You really believed that?

Quoted for truth from the official forum:

Quote:
I can bet anything that their trailer was pure old stuff mixed with 2.0 CGI and since they saw that almost everyone was expecting something big, they choked.


Edited, May 28th 2012 9:32am by Rinsui
#6 May 28 2012 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
They finished the trailer... Yoshi... why would you not want to introduce this where it would be most likely to draw attention? It would be one thing if it wasn't done...


Oh come on. You really believed that?


I think they're scared like Rune said. No other reason to try and pass such a lame excuse. If the trailer isn't done, V2 won't be done and they might as well scrap it now.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#7 May 28 2012 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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Wow the Whiteknigting on the official forums is astounding! (that Starlord is quite a character, I wish i was still allowed to post there :/) Anyway people are getting upset over the wrong thing here and coming up with all sorts of crazy theories as to whether FFXIV is or isn't a show at E3 this year. Its really simple what happened here: SE sat down and had a long chat about how things would pan out if they release a 2.0 trailer at E3 - people would watch 2.0 trailer, get all excited and giddy, go check out main website and.....nothing on 2.0 is there but rather stuff associated with 1.0 and its ugly head. So SE decided its best to hold off on the trailer until they can release it alongside a flood of new information (I'm guessing this starts with the website due to launch after E3).

People should be upset at the fact that SE didn't think of this earlier and didn't prep for this leading up to E3. Instead this was a last minute decision on their part and where they could have made a lot of progress here instead E3 is gone to waste. Whatever though, I'm looking forward to the launch of the new website, hopefully they have some nice stuff lined up for that.
#8 May 28 2012 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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kyara10 wrote:
SE sat down and had a long chat about how things would pan out if they release a 2.0 trailer at E3 - people would watch 2.0 trailer, get all excited and giddy, go check out main website and.....


... and it doesn't matter what comes after that because you need all the 'get all excited and giddy' you can get. **** the rest. Who is in charge of this ****? It's a troll's wet dream. I'm going to E3 with some friends and we're going to build a big cardboard booth, put on a ****** puppetshow and advertise it as the XIV trailer. Yoshi is going to E3 for what exactly? Oh, right... job opportunities.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#9 May 28 2012 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes, a big LOL @ that Starlord guy. He just collected the whole PLD artifact armor set solo with his posts.

There's yet another possible explanation for why they would decide to miss the E3 opportunity: the main
audience for the PS3 version arguably sits in Japan, so perhaps they wanted to make sure that this time,
their home market gets the biggest buzz at the Tokyo Game Show. That would be an indication that they
are at least aware of the dangers a flop at the E3 would imply, and opted to focus on the rather "tame"
Japanese playerbase first.
#10 May 28 2012 at 7:50 AM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
There's yet another possible explanation for why they would decide to miss the E3 opportunity: the main
audience for the PS3 version arguably sits in Japan, so perhaps they wanted to make sure that this time,
their home market gets the biggest buzz at the Tokyo Game Show.


I thought about that too. Well, not the PS3 bit but the TGS. Roadmap for trailer says August and TGS is in September iirc.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#11 May 28 2012 at 9:21 AM Rating: Default
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And Amateur Hour continues... Seriously, it's like clockwork at this point.
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#12 May 28 2012 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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brutal. I hope they're doing better than they look like they're doing.
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#13 May 28 2012 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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I think instead of trickling out little shades of the game like some 3 min trailer. They are holding back to release a ton of PROVEN HANDS ON INFO at once.I'm guessing they plan to unload the blitzkrieg around the 2.0 PC version time release or close to it. They can show off the most beautiful game ever, cgi or real time. But as we know looks are not everything. They might get you a first date on a first impression(which XIV already had) but your relationship won't last without substance and honesty.

- Trailers on tv and gamescomm both cgi and real time by August or close by then
-Gamescomm demo
-PC 2.0 reviews go live(Hopefully it can get to an 8 at the least and they direct players to wiki sites)
-Followed up by Let's Play FFXIV videos on gamespot and IGN.(Hopefully they direct players to wikisites)
-Various other fansites showcase the new XIV.
-The game against all odds manages to re-entice some of the pc community and garners interest towards a ps3 version for low budget gamers.
-The ps3 reviews come in(Hopefully above decent as well)
-A flexible payment system or excellent free trial setup goes into effect to get feet wet initially.

You may not agree with my last statement. But if you want to entice from the largest pool of gamers. They got to have a means to get substantial time on a game to even consider p2p. Even then, they sometimes still don't wanna p2p even if the game is good. Given the intial launch which only compounds this possibility. If the aggregate reviews still score 7ish or lower. I don't think anything will matter. I'm hoping that SE comes out roses. But so far, everything is on paper. One has to actually get hands on with things to judge it's worth.

lol. This could just be me having wishful speculation.
#14 May 28 2012 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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Real reason should be annoyed about this is that it shows the SE of old, SE going back to their old ways is not something anyone should be accepting of.

SE have always, always sucked at advertising and re-releasing XIV needs the best advertising the gaming industry has ever seen. This shows they just aren't upto it and aren't sure of the game they are making. Anyone that played XI should be well away how bad they are.
#15 May 28 2012 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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sandpark wrote:
I think instead of trickling out little shades of the game like some 3 min trailer. They are holding back to release a ton of PROVEN HANDS ON INFO at once.I'm guessing they plan to unload the blitzkrieg around the 2.0 PC version time release or close to it. They can show off the most beautiful game ever, cgi or real time. But as we know looks are not everything. They might get you a first date on a first impression(which XIV already had) but your relationship won't last without substance and honesty.

- Trailers on tv and gamescomm both cgi and real time by August or close by then
-Gamescomm demo
-PC 2.0 reviews go live(Hopefully it can get to an 8 at the least and they direct players to wiki sites)
-Followed up by Let's Play FFXIV videos on gamespot and IGN.(Hopefully they direct players to wikisites)
-Various other fansites showcase the new XIV.
-The game against all odds manages to re-entice some of the pc community and garners interest towards a ps3 version for low budget gamers.
-The ps3 reviews come in(Hopefully above decent as well)
-A flexible payment system or excellent free trial setup goes into effect to get feet wet initially.

You may not agree with my last statement. But if you want to entice from the largest pool of gamers. They got to have a means to get substantial time on a game to even consider p2p. Even then, they sometimes still don't wanna p2p even if the game is good. Given the intial launch which only compounds this possibility. If the aggregate reviews still score 7ish or lower. I don't think anything will matter. I'm hoping that SE comes out roses. But so far, everything is on paper. One has to actually get hands on with things to judge it's worth.

lol. This could just be me having wishful speculation.


If you look objectively at their track record, I'm pretty sure it is wishful speculation at this point. Every major transition or addition has been either a.) completely underwhelming, b.) delayed and then completely underwhelming, or c.) delayed, outright befuddling and bizarre to the point of inducing rage.

So, yeah, wishful.
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#16 May 28 2012 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Can't say I'm dissapointed as I wasn't expecting much...

It would be cool (very unlikely considering it's SE) if they were trolling us and had a playable version of 2.0 at E3... but I highly doubt it. I am concerned about the advertising bit, even in Japan they've never had the best advertising (although much much better than the US).
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#17 May 28 2012 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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kyara10 wrote:
Wow the Whiteknigting on the official forums is astounding! (that Starlord is quite a character, I wish i was still allowed to post there :/) Anyway people are getting upset over the wrong thing here and coming up with all sorts of crazy theories as to whether FFXIV is or isn't a show at E3 this year. Its really simple what happened here: SE sat down and had a long chat about how things would pan out if they release a 2.0 trailer at E3 - people would watch 2.0 trailer, get all excited and giddy, go check out main website and.....nothing on 2.0 is there but rather stuff associated with 1.0 and its ugly head. So SE decided its best to hold off on the trailer until they can release it alongside a flood of new information (I'm guessing this starts with the website due to launch after E3).

People should be upset at the fact that SE didn't think of this earlier and didn't prep for this leading up to E3. Instead this was a last minute decision on their part and where they could have made a lot of progress here instead E3 is gone to waste. Whatever though, I'm looking forward to the launch of the new website, hopefully they have some nice stuff lined up for that.



Gotta agree with this tbh.
#18 May 28 2012 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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There's a really good player made "Let's Play" series on Youtube right now:

http://www.youtube.com/show/letsplayfinalfantasyxiv/videos?view=1
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
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Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#19 May 28 2012 at 11:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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No one is thinking this from an actual gamer that may have seen XIV when it was first shown at E3. Let me think how did that go, they showed a trailer and put a site up. So why the heck would they want to do the same thing now. To repeat what they did would just be a dumb idea they have to show that 2.0 is different from 1.0, the best way they can do this is by actually releasing a site which actually has info related to the game not an info site that brings up concepts which weren't even implemented into the released product.

I'd much rather have a flood of information taking concepts from everything that have planned for 2.0 rather then a trailer that may even spoil the story a bit for those who haven't played yet. Odds are the trailer is being released closer to 2.0 release since it'll have some connection to the conclusion of this story arc as things lead into the new build.

It's only a week away, people are getting to butthurt over all of this and just need to be patient for one more week.You've waited long enough now just sit back relax do your weekly thing and wait for e3 to start lol.
#20 May 28 2012 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Didn't they say they were going to put up a 2.0 website at the end of April? lol
#21 May 28 2012 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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What a joke...PR watched the trailer and said "Yea this is ****.We can't release this" ok lets delay and give out little tidbits so people don't realize it sucks all at once...
#22 May 28 2012 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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Dizmo wrote:
Didn't they say they were going to put up a 2.0 website at the end of April? lol


Pretty sure they said post E3, but I could be wrong.
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#23 May 28 2012 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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Back at the start of April I seem to remember him saying "we'll putting up a promotional website for 2.0 around the end of the month", maybe it's just my imagination though. Probably it is because I can't find it now.
#24 May 28 2012 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Bought GW2 (still will play XIV casually unless it knocks it out of the park) It would be nice if they could not make promises and then backtrack >.>

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/38201-Coming-in-Version-2.0!?p=638928#post638928
Quote:
We will also be starting a new promotion at the end of the month so please look forward to that as well.

After E3, we will be releasing new information in stages. Please be advised that the promotion will also target new players who have never seen or played FFXIV so it will include content you may all be already familiar with. Don’t worry; I’m planning to include new content for the existing players too. Stay tuned!

That was April 14th. Promotion my ***.

Edited, May 28th 2012 12:05pm by Elionara
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#25 May 28 2012 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elionara wrote:
Bought GW2 (still will play XIV casually unless it knocks it out of the park) It would be nice if they could not make promises and then backtrack >.>

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/38201-Coming-in-Version-2.0!?p=638928#post638928
Quote:
We will also be starting a new promotion at the end of the month so please look forward to that as well.

After E3, we will be releasing new information in stages. Please be advised that the promotion will also target new players who have never seen or played FFXIV so it will include content you may all be already familiar with. Don’t worry; I’m planning to include new content for the existing players too. Stay tuned!

That was April 14th. Promotion my ***.

Edited, May 28th 2012 12:05pm by Elionara



Weren't they talking about Welcome Back/Legacy as the new promotion?
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#26 May 28 2012 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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Hey Elionara, that was a nice user Let's Play of 1.0.

I'm gonna buy and try GW2 whether it knocks it out of the park or not because it's b2p. I will treat it like a an online rpg with more content and mulitplayer. The only commitment it asks of me is time. I know I don't like their storyboard storytelling presentation and I think it was said it won't have raids?(Not sure on that one)
If more mmos were b2p. I'd prolly play one till I get bored then scoot on over to the next like skittles. :p

SE is in a very precarious stage at this moment. The devs and in house suits are probably getting butterflies. They got to make sure the game is finished before flaunting their stuff imo.
#27 May 28 2012 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
Elionara wrote:
Bought GW2 (still will play XIV casually unless it knocks it out of the park) It would be nice if they could not make promises and then backtrack >.>

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/38201-Coming-in-Version-2.0!?p=638928#post638928
Quote:
We will also be starting a new promotion at the end of the month so please look forward to that as well.

After E3, we will be releasing new information in stages. Please be advised that the promotion will also target new players who have never seen or played FFXIV so it will include content you may all be already familiar with. Don’t worry; I’m planning to include new content for the existing players too. Stay tuned!

That was April 14th. Promotion my ***.

Edited, May 28th 2012 12:05pm by Elionara



Weren't they talking about Welcome Back/Legacy as the new promotion?


I think that's what I read that confused me.

Regarding that promotion I just logged in to find that it was exactly the same game functionally, just with autoattack and most of my old abilities gone and replaced with some more boring ones, with my previously acquired abilities now becoming my high level rewards. Yeah... that was great.
#28 May 28 2012 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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Dizmo wrote:

Regarding that promotion I just logged in to find that it was exactly the same game functionally, just with autoattack and most of my old abilities gone and replaced with some more boring ones, with my previously acquired abilities now becoming my high level rewards. Yeah... that was great.


Yeah. I feel ya man.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#29 May 28 2012 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus wrote:
Dizmo wrote:

Regarding that promotion I just logged in to find that it was exactly the same game functionally, just with autoattack and most of my old abilities gone and replaced with some more boring ones, with my previously acquired abilities now becoming my high level rewards. Yeah... that was great.


Yeah. I feel ya man.


I can certainly understand why you feel underwhelmed. I'm just excited that he actually mentioned the PS3 in this letter.
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#30 May 28 2012 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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Smiley: lol we don't want to just show a little bit of 2.0, we wanna show you a lot, so wait 2 months, and then we will show you.. Smiley: lol

Has that not been the fail strategy since release ? WAIT MORE TIME!!! ITS BEEN 2 YEARS FFS!!!
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#31 May 28 2012 at 10:22 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Has that not been the fail strategy since release ? WAIT MORE TIME!!! ITS BEEN 2 YEARS FFS!!!


Yeah, I'd love to know what's really going on over there. Is the game really in that much of a mess from the beginning, or is the team really just that incompetent? I guess only 2.0 will answer that question...
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#32 May 28 2012 at 10:28 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Has that not been the fail strategy since release ? WAIT MORE TIME!!! ITS BEEN 2 YEARS FFS!!!


Yeah, I'd love to know what's really going on over there. Is the game really in that much of a mess from the beginning, or is the team really just that incompetent? I guess only 2.0 will answer that question...


Honestly, and ya'll can rate me down all ya want, but I call vaporware.
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#33 May 29 2012 at 2:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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In order to make version 2.0 a success, we need to appeal to not only our current players (naturally!), but also as many new players as possible, including PS3 owners.


I'm glad he recognises this, but I'm really not sure what they think appeals to people or what their specific target audience is - FFXI players? WoW players? TERA players? FFXI felt like a game that evolved completely independently from the Korean/western market, mostly in a good way, but in this case they just seem to be fumbling in the dark. I really don't think asking peoples' opinions on the official forums is going to be of great assistance... they need to be listening to their most critical customers, who mostly left long, long ago.

LebargeX wrote:
Olorinus wrote:
Dizmo wrote:

Regarding that promotion I just logged in to find that it was exactly the same game functionally, just with autoattack and most of my old abilities gone and replaced with some more boring ones, with my previously acquired abilities now becoming my high level rewards. Yeah... that was great.


Yeah. I feel ya man.


I can certainly understand why you feel underwhelmed. I'm just excited that he actually mentioned the PS3 in this letter.


It makes me really worried about the revamp if it's just... this, but smoother and shinier. But that's what they're planning, right? :( That's not going to even attract 100k players...

I really feel that 2.0 needs to bring deep gameplay changes or surely it will surely fail. New graphics and netcode just isn't going to turn around the game's reputation and fun factor. I think they should just be releasing 2.0 as a a "new" FF MMO without a number (initial game free for current players of course), since no one other than people already interested in FFXIV care about a revamp and most people have already already written off XIV as a "a game that failed 2 years ago" or comment "revamp? SWG tried that". When I mention XIV to friends I get treated as if I'm some sort of anachronism, and somewhat rightly. Spiritually scrapping the current game entirely might ruffle a few feathers of the current hardcore player base, but how many people is that, really? Surely not enough to justify hiring a (supposedly) 100+ man team to develop 2.0 in the first place. The majority would be more than happy I'm sure. Being conservative is just not something they can afford to do.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, though.

Edited, May 29th 2012 5:10am by Dizmo
#34 May 29 2012 at 3:26 AM Rating: Good
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Dizmo wrote:
I'm glad he recognises this, but I'm really not sure what they think appeals to people or what their specific target audience is - FFXI players? WoW players? TERA players?


Their target audience is console gamers. Japanese gamers prefer console to PC (at least for XI) at a rate of 2:1 so they're holding out hope that the PS3 release will bring a swell of new players. NA and EU players favored PC for FFXI. Also have to consider how impatient americans are and a lot of the people who would have been playing on console broke down and purchased or built a PC.

Dizmo wrote:
I think they should just be releasing 2.0 as a a "new" FF MMO without a number (initial game free for current players of course), since no one other than people already interested in FFXIV care about a revamp and most people have already already written off XIV as a "a game that failed 2 years ago" or comment "revamp? SWG tried that".


Wouldn't matter. There will be a 30 day trial to kick off V2 so anyone who has already played it will be able to tell if it's just the same product in a new wrapper.

I personally think scrapping it would have been the best idea, had they decided to do that 16 months ago. There will be a lot of players who aren't coming back simply because they've been away too long and the game dragged on without them. ****, most people here will tell you they stuck around because they didn't want to miss out on stuff they won't have access to after 2.0 hits and they didn't want to get left behind. They could probably avoid some of that if the upgrade comes with a level cap increase, but at this point most people are just hoping it doesn't flop again.
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#35 May 29 2012 at 3:42 AM Rating: Decent
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****, most people here will tell you they stuck around because they didn't want to miss out on stuff they won't have access to after 2.0 hits and they didn't want to get left behind.


Most definitely true; I almost fell into that trap myself.
Until I realized: hey, there will be newbie exclusive 2.0
servers anyway, so everybody will be on the same footing.
Also "not being left behind" is hardly an excuse for wasting
hundreds of hours playing a game I simply can't enjoy.
Not when there are so many other good things to do.
(Including, and this I add for Mr. McNasty, watching ****)
#36 May 29 2012 at 3:45 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Dizmo wrote:
I'm glad he recognises this, but I'm really not sure what they think appeals to people or what their specific target audience is - FFXI players? WoW players? TERA players?


Their target audience is console gamers. Japanese gamers prefer console to PC (at least for XI) at a rate of 2:1 so they're holding out hope that the PS3 release will bring a swell of new players. NA and EU players favored PC for FFXI. Also have to consider how impatient americans are and a lot of the people who would have been playing on console broke down and purchased or built a PC.


Yeah, it was a silly question. Hardly any gamers in Japan have even heard of WoW and TERA a failed game there (hello $35 a month subscription fee).
FilthMcNasty wrote:

Dizmo wrote:
I think they should just be releasing 2.0 as a a "new" FF MMO without a number (initial game free for current players of course), since no one other than people already interested in FFXIV care about a revamp and most people have already already written off XIV as a "a game that failed 2 years ago" or comment "revamp? SWG tried that".


Wouldn't matter. There will be a 30 day trial to kick off V2 so anyone who has already played it will be able to tell if it's just the same product in a new wrapper.

I personally think scrapping it would have been the best idea, had they decided to do that 16 months ago. There will be a lot of players who aren't coming back simply because they've been away too long and the game dragged on without them. ****, most people here will tell you they stuck around because they didn't want to miss out on stuff they won't have access to after 2.0 hits and they didn't want to get left behind. They could probably avoid some of that if the upgrade comes with a level cap increase, but at this point most people are just hoping it doesn't flop again.

If they increased the level cap to say, 75 or so and made 1-50 pretty trivial, then I guess that would replace the need to start everyone off at the same level. The economy would probably need balancing though.
#37 May 29 2012 at 6:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah I feel like I've gone from someone who was willing to hang in there and give SE a second chance to fix their horrible mistake, to just almost completely losing interest and giving up on the game.

SE seems to live on another planet, is is their hubris that keeps them there? they just don't seem to grasp even the most basic of concepts that come naturally to other developers. I do give Yoshi credit, I think he's done well overall, but the game feels like it has lost a lot of depth, it may be the shell of something great, we'll see I suppose.

I had already unsubscribed last month, at this point I'm just going to check in periodically and play again in 2.0 to see what the deal is.

#38 May 29 2012 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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Skipping E3 is going to put a huge blow on the awareness of 2.0. A lot of people don't even know there is a Final Fantasy XIV at all, let alone it bombed and is going for a re-launch.

August though... are they waiting for TGS?
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#39 May 29 2012 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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I gotta say, it re-invigorated the fan-base. Haven't seen this much talk about 14 since the last time they missed a deadline.

I definitely can understand both stand-points. Personally, if I can't play it, it's icing on the cake, and I could care less... But, then again, I don't need something immediately. I know the window when 2.0 is scheduled to come out, and will continue on using that as my point of reference.

Following up though, consider the constant comments and complaints SE has received in the 9 months that they have decided to release information as they get it. Every time there is a constant barrage of it's not enough information, or, why didn't they wait until they do this, or do that. Or, this feature sucks, or this doesn't work right. It's a constant respond-receive-respond process, that, during early development works well, but the closer they get to the release of 2.0, the harder it will be (and as most people have seen since 1.20) to release more information, because there isn't any. Small bug fixes here, tweaks to the UI there, a Goobbue on the side.

Most of this has the potential to be good in that, if they are holding back on quests, mobs, NMs, zones, raids, and such, which everything is pointing at they are doing. That means, when 2.0 is released, it will actually have something.

Yoshi has been good for his word. He has been honest when he hasn't been able to reach a goal, and has been able to release some things even ahead of schedule. And while typically the releases have been 3 days to a week late, they usually try and get one more thing in, while they fix whatever it is that was causing them problems.

Add to that, the number of defects, or regression issues popping up in the game have decreased, over-all the game is no where near where it was when it launched. It is still limited to the crappy software it was originally released with, and because of that, just logging in can quickly remind anyone of what it used to be. And the fact that everyone seems to want everything, and there just isn't enough to go around leaves most people unsatisfied. It is what it is.

To take something like a trailer this seriously does imply that people still care about the game, and for all the complaining, people are actually interested. But, it also means that people are not very understanding of the politics of it. PR doesn't play by the same rules as Marketing, Development, or Sales. PR is about the company image. So, yes, in many ways, when Yoshi stated that the decision was made in a PR meeting, that meant that they identified a significant issue with informing the public of 2.0. There are two very likely reasons why this happened. The first was the result of the Welcome Back. With multiple worlds locked from new characters. Many of the people who did return where unhappy with the current play balance, and the general aesthetics of the game (still many of the UI bugs, and not enough to do but grind, and no parties to grind with). Combine that with the fact that it would truly be foolish to in any way associate 14 with 2.0 from a public stand-point, they have a problem.

While we want to see the video (and releasing the video to the fan-base would actually seem a lot more of a sane idea), showing it to people you want to prove the game is fixed ultimately is a very high risk, low reward situation. Either people will be "Well, it looks like it might be better", or "So, which part was CG, and which was actual game play", or worse, "If that is how the game can be played right now, why isn't it?" "You say you have the client done, why not give it to the existing players", There are almost an endless number of ways even a good video could be poorly received.

And ultimately, a decision like that, while, was probably stewing in the office for quite a while, would have been from a group separate of the people working on the projects, and that are excited about what they have.

So, Yoshi and his team got ahead of themselves. They are psychologically ready to show the game off. They want people to see what they have done so far... But, ultimately, it's not their decision. There are a lot of people above them, that have been hurt, and are worried about what the future of this game holds.

If you look at it from an open perspective, none of this is even remotely hard to see or understand. But, the real question is, as fans, do you care either way. Most of the people obviously feel once bitten, and the company is twice shy. It's never a good combination, and will have a negative release no matter how good the release actually is. 2.0 could be the best thing since sliced cheese on a rye cracker, and people will still be mad about it. And it could be the biggest mistake that SE ever made (which, I will be honest, I would be incredibly impressed if they found a way to make it worse than 14 was when it was released... but anything is possible), and there would be the whole back-lash against the company (can you say Dreamcast?)

Either way, I am not "White Knighting" SE. I am simply trying to state, there are reasons for their actions, and in the case of E3, the fans matter MUCH less than the general public (aka potential future fans/players). They already burned their current player-base, why risk burning their future player-base (ok, they also did that to the PS3 crowd abit... however, at the same time, they prevented any PS3 players from wasting their money on a game they would never play). And the They I am talking about is the Corporate side of SE, not the development side.
#40 May 29 2012 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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I may have a slightly different outlook than most because I only played the Beta and then stopped when the game was released because I couldn't believe they released the game when so many people were complaining about every aspect of the game. I recently picked up the game in order to play with some old FFFXIV friends and to lock in on the legacy campaign (hopefully). Starting fresh in the game has actually been fairly fun, although there are still lots of things that aren't intuitive...
My biggest beef so far is the retainer/market ward trainwreck. I appreciate that they have added a search (albeit a poor one) to the system, but for the most part it is a pretty horrible system to try and track down items. It took me about an hour yesterday to re-gear me and my wife by trying to randomly search for certain types of gear.
My second biggest beef is the mapping. I am not going ot harp on this, as I know this is a big change coming ot V2.0... but whowever thought that a bunch of paths was a better option than an open world with obstacles should have been shot.

Granted, I am only 23 as my highest class, so I have yet to experience a large chunk of the game and potential issues... but compared to Beta, this game is amazing. I can run around without the game lagging every third step, there aren't insane killer monsters super close to town, there are more quests and stories, and above all else there is actually a community that is not only giving feedback, but seeing response to that feedback. I am perfectly content with waiting for the trailer, as I would like to see it come out with the launch of an offical site that will have a lot of detail about the game, the systems and the improvements that are currently implimented. I have a lot to do/catch up on before V2.0, and my wife and I are taking our time and leveling lots of things and exploring as much as we can. I think what I am looking forward to right now is the roadmap for the first year after v2.0 is released. I think Yoshi is on the right track and might be able to pull something off. Will FFXIV be the next big MMO? I highly doubt it, but I do think it will find its followers and attract some new blood... hopefully enough to keep it afloat for the next 5-10 years.
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#41 May 29 2012 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
August though... are they waiting for TGS?


The way I see it is that they know the only true market for XIV now is JP PS3 market, everything else is almost irrelevant. E3 is pointless, they aren't going to turn enough people to XIV outside Japan anyway.

They will try to sell it on the easy win of nationalism on consoles, TGS exclusive is the first step of that.
#42 May 29 2012 at 10:35 AM Rating: Default
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rfolkker wrote:
Either way, I am not "White Knighting" SE. I am simply trying to state, there are reasons for their actions, and in the case of E3, the fans matter MUCH less than the general public (aka potential future fans/players).


No offense, but this is possibly the worst business logic ever. How many threads have we seen in the past 2 years of the general public asking fans if the game is ready or not?

E3 is just way too important to miss in my opinion. Sure, they might make noise at TGS, but that's going to come well after everything else has taken a huge bite out of the buzz. SE could have really capitalized on the fact that they were releasing before SWtoR, D3, TERA, MoP and GW2. Now they're going to release right in the middle of the storm after missing the biggest press event in the run up? If I were trying to destroy a franchise, I don't think I could actually plan it any better than SE has.

I smell popcorn...
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#43 May 29 2012 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
Either way, I am not "White Knighting" SE. I am simply trying to state, there are reasons for their actions, and in the case of E3, the fans matter MUCH less than the general public (aka potential future fans/players).


No offense, but this is possibly the worst business logic ever. How many threads have we seen in the past 2 years of the general public asking fans if the game is ready or not?

E3 is just way too important to miss in my opinion. Sure, they might make noise at TGS, but that's going to come well after everything else has taken a huge bite out of the buzz. SE could have really capitalized on the fact that they were releasing before SWtoR, D3, TERA, MoP and GW2. Now they're going to release right in the middle of the storm after missing the biggest press event in the run up? If I were trying to destroy a franchise, I don't think I could actually plan it any better than SE has.

I smell popcorn...


But, capitalize on what? Now, they are not discounting the play-through there. Setting up a system and running with the new client would be good. And since Yoshi is going, it would be a fair assumption that he will be doing more than handing out chatchkeys. But, then again, it is SE, so holding ones breath for anything would seem foolish in-and-of itself.

And no offense taken.

On top of that, E3 is a PR game. And just like any other vendor there, they have to play the game. And until we see their play, it's all just fun speculation.
#44 May 29 2012 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
Either way, I am not "White Knighting" SE. I am simply trying to state, there are reasons for their actions, and in the case of E3, the fans matter MUCH less than the general public (aka potential future fans/players).


No offense, but this is possibly the worst business logic ever. How many threads have we seen in the past 2 years of the general public asking fans if the game is ready or not?

E3 is just way too important to miss in my opinion. Sure, they might make noise at TGS, but that's going to come well after everything else has taken a huge bite out of the buzz. SE could have really capitalized on the fact that they were releasing before SWtoR, D3, TERA, MoP and GW2. Now they're going to release right in the middle of the storm after missing the biggest press event in the run up? If I were trying to destroy a franchise, I don't think I could actually plan it any better than SE has.

I smell popcorn...


But, capitalize on what? Now, they are not discounting the play-through there. Setting up a system and running with the new client would be good. And since Yoshi is going, it would be a fair assumption that he will be doing more than handing out chatchkeys. But, then again, it is SE, so holding ones breath for anything would seem foolish in-and-of itself.

And no offense taken.

On top of that, E3 is a PR game. And just like any other vendor there, they have to play the game. And until we see their play, it's all just fun speculation.


I think the fact they aren't specifically saying what they're going to have has a lot of people uneasy. I mean, if they said "Well, we're not going to debut a trailer now, but here's a, b and c that we WILL have", that'd be one thing. But this whole secrecy thing reeks of the exact same development cycle 1.0 had. It's less than 3-4 months before beta, and not one official, real screenshot? No gameplay footage? A complete ????? on wtf they're doing, if anything, at E3?

It's like history repeating itself all over again.

Edited, May 29th 2012 3:01pm by hexaemeron
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#45 May 29 2012 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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I thought they had a huge "what do you do" for 14 before they released it at E3, they did the same thing for 11, 12, and 13. And other than Nintendo giving in and saying they will have a Wii-U system there, and Microsoft stating they will have a Windows 8 System (and I believe they are also planning on having a phone and tablet), not many others have actually come out and said what they are doing at E3. I mean, even Blizzard is skipping E3 all together (don't get me wrong, they are running their own Con for their own products in place of it).

This is really not unusual behavior. But, since SE has failed so badly, expectations for them have gone beyond the point of normal to, if they don't do something Final Fantasy 6 worthy, with the openness of a Linux development team, than it's a failure.
#46 May 29 2012 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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hexaemeron wrote:
It's less than 3-4 months before beta, and not one official, real screenshot? No gameplay footage? A complete ????? on wtf they're doing, if anything, at E3?

It's like history repeating itself all over again.

Edited, May 29th 2012 3:01pm by hexaemeron

But this time around that beta date isn't set in stone (it isn't really set at all). Rushing an unfinished product out the door last time was one of the biggest problems with release. That said, it does seem like they should have had plenty of time to have something concrete by now, but that's assuming this is simply an expansion. Instead, it should be a brand new game, in which case the development time is considerably longer.

In an ideal world, they're hard at work on something that will bear almost no resemblance to the mess released two years ago, and just haven't had time to get it polished enough for promotional materials because SE is taking this re-release very seriously.

More realistically, this is a minor expansion pack that is plagued with technical problems and a lack of direction and developer talent that may never see the light of day.
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#47 May 29 2012 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:
I thought they had a huge "what do you do" for 14 before they released it at E3, they did the same thing for 11, 12, and 13. And other than Nintendo giving in and saying they will have a Wii-U system there, and Microsoft stating they will have a Windows 8 System (and I believe they are also planning on having a phone and tablet), not many others have actually come out and said what they are doing at E3. I mean, even Blizzard is skipping E3 all together (don't get me wrong, they are running their own Con for their own products in place of it).

This is really not unusual behavior. But, since SE has failed so badly, expectations for them have gone beyond the point of normal to, if they don't do something Final Fantasy 6 worthy, with the openness of a Linux development team, than it's a failure.


No, see, here's the problem with that. Those other companies haven't made promises out of their behind over the past two years about fixing a game that never should have been released in the first place. Those other companies didn't make that mistake. And, when you look at what they promise, versus what they usually end up doing (delayed, underwhelming, bizarre), people are understandably upset that yet again, SE delays, delays, delays at the one time for the States where they knew they were expected to present, and present BIG.

So either, a.) The States aren't a huge priority anymore., b.) They're not nearly as far along as they're alluding to, and so they're trying not to let that particular cat out of the bag, or c.) 2.0 is a complete dud and they're gonna string people along as long as possible on empty promises, like 1.0.
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#48 May 29 2012 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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rfolkker wrote:
And since Yoshi is going, it would be a fair assumption that he will be doing more than handing out chatchkeys. But, then again, it is SE, so holding ones breath for anything would seem foolish in-and-of itself.

And no offense taken.

On top of that, E3 is a PR game. And just like any other vendor there, they have to play the game. And until we see their play, it's all just fun speculation.


If he isn't going to present a trailer then he'd better be going to take notes. I understand that SE thinks their fate lies in the hands of their fellow JP console players, but do they realize that their competition will also be at TGS? Mayhaps the plan is to unleash some sort of devastating ultra combo of promotional doom upon their enemies on home turf? The roadmap says trailer in August and I don't know of anything special going on then because TGS is late September iirc... but didn't XIV break at EGS first way back when? I'll have to see if I can find that info.

I honestly don't think they have a play. The opposition isn't pitching a perfect game, but it's the top of the 9th and they're down by a bajillion gazillion runs. Going to E3 without anything big to show is like taking the field without a bat. I guess we'll see in the coming weeks.


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#49 May 29 2012 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
And since Yoshi is going, it would be a fair assumption that he will be doing more than handing out chatchkeys. But, then again, it is SE, so holding ones breath for anything would seem foolish in-and-of itself.

And no offense taken.

On top of that, E3 is a PR game. And just like any other vendor there, they have to play the game. And until we see their play, it's all just fun speculation.


If he isn't going to present a trailer then he'd better be going to take notes. I understand that SE thinks their fate lies in the hands of their fellow JP console players, but do they realize that their competition will also be at TGS? Mayhaps the plan is to unleash some sort of devastating ultra combo of promotional doom upon their enemies on home turf? The roadmap says trailer in August and I don't know of anything special going on then because TGS is late September iirc... but didn't XIV break at EGS first way back when? I'll have to see if I can find that info.

I honestly don't think they have a play. The opposition isn't pitching a perfect game, but it's the top of the 9th and they're down by a bajillion gazillion runs. Going to E3 without anything big to show is like taking the field without a bat. I guess we'll see in the coming weeks.



I'm from Minnesota, so that game sounds perfectly valid here:) Go TWINS!
#50 May 29 2012 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Well i read the post on the official forums, and thank god i made the choice of not subbing juts to post there, jesus the white knights are out in full damage control on that one XD! But really who can blame them, they been waiting for that golden patch for about 2 years and counting...... And we have yet to see that magical golden Patch!! But do not despair, yoshi is at the helm, and under his watch he we have had so many memorable Updates! I mean every time XIV has an update every single other MMO watches and stands in AWE! At the sheer amount of content being Released! Week after Week! It is mind numbing how this game is in the gutters after such impressive breath taking track record of Updates!!

I think we can all be sure that SE has all this under control, i mean if the past 2 years speak for themselves..... what can be worried about right ?

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#51 May 29 2012 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Yoshi has said that 2.0 isn't a brand new game. And to players who have played 1.0 a good deal. That will probably ring true for those players. It is supposed to mark the end of the overhaul stage. A point where the game transitions from slower updates fixing previous things & trickling content. To a game with faster updates focusing on new content. I 'm guessing with all the new zones & story revision, it will feel like an expansion. If the servers are as good as Yoshi has stated. Everything you do in game will just feel snappy & smoother.

For any players they manage to pull in. It will be a brand new game in every sense of the word. A game that has gone through two years of alpha testing. Assuming the new servers or content revision doesn't introduce a slew of new problems. That should in theory equal to one of the smoothest launches in history in terms of polish. A new player will be able to come in and experience the game highly polished. They will be able to focus more on enjoying the content. For these players, it will be the equivalent of joining a game 2-3 expansions into it's lifetime.

The decision on there being an E3 trailer or not being a good idea, has yet to be determined. I feel that for existing players & someone just hearing of the game. This is a bad thing. For returning players and players who made the decision to not play until 2.0. This could be a good thing. A bombardment of info closer to 2.0 reviews and final beta testing. Could let them see hands on the progress that has been made.

In the end it comes down to allowing returning or new players a chance to try the game out with little monetary commitment at entry. If the game is as good as the two years of behind the scenes development should equate to. One trailer couldn't portray that anyways. The review sites, fan sites, and word of mouth should portray that better. APB rereleased f2p with somewhere between 1-3 million players. But received a mediocre aggregate review. Mmos have become more visible to the non mmo community. The true test isn't so much attracting new players. It's keeping them there after the shine wears off. TOR dropped from 2 to 1 million subscribers. I blame that on long term content. But mostly, you can blame the p2p model.

Gamers are far more demanding when it comes down to forking cash out continually. If the sub model fails XIV around 2.0. I hope they consider the flexible payment model of DCUO going forward.
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