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Relic Weapon Revival (06/06/2012)Follow

#1 Jun 06 2012 at 5:52 AM Rating: Default
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http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=1b3b1d90f6ba7a65d1660dc64461cf1bf68fa674

Quote:
The reformation of Eorzea’s Grand Companies was born of a longing in the hearts of the free peoples of Eorzea—a longing for the days of old and the peace they knew. It is a sentiment that has since spread to the realm’s adventurers, guiding them toward the rediscovery of trades from a former age that had all but died out. Small wonder, then, that those who have mastered these ancient ways of battle and sorcery now seek the weapons of eld which will enable them to realize the truest expression of their newfound powers. Thus have adventurers begun their quest for the relics.


Quote:
Relic weapons are a category of arms designed specifically for a certain job. They are obtained via the “A Relic Reborn” quest, which can be undertaken as of the release of patch 1.22b*. Only players who have completed at least one of the job quests and obtained a soiled promissory note from the NPC Rowena in Ul’dah will be eligible for this quest. Once these conditions are met, “A Relic Reborn” can be started by speaking to the NPC Gerolt at the Hawthorne Hut, found within the Black Shroud.

“A Relic Reborn” is a repeatable quest. After completing it and obtaining a relic weapon, it may be begun again to obtain a different relic weapon. It is not possible, however, to progress towards two different relic weapons simultaneously. Should you wish to pursue a different relic weapon while “A Relic Reborn” is already underway, you must abandon the quest and begin anew. Epic challenges and hard work await those who undertake “A Relic Reborn,” so please choose the object of your desire carefully, lest you find yourself coveting your neighbor’s weapon!


SE can officially suck my *** >.> 25,000 seal GC key item (which is not known if you have lose it) plus a soiled note which is 9 frigging seal drops from hamlet defense. This is PER weapon.

I'll try one for PLD but seriously... if it's that hard to get just one and they suck monkey balls; Why bother?

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 4:52am by Elionara

Updated:
Updated op with post from lodestone:

So far this is it:

Quote:
So is this about right so far?


Step 1 - Earn 25,000 seals and buy the key item "On the Properties of Beastment"

Step 2 - Obtain Inferno Seal x3, Tremor Seal x3, Vortex Seal x3 from Rank 2 Hamlet (gold chest requiring 60K+ scores)

Step 3 - Talk to Rowena and Exchange for a Soiled Promissory Note

Step 4 - Go to Gerolt and start Quest "A Relic Reborn"

Step 5 - Gather HQ mats and craft or buy Class-Only Weapons (prefferably HQ)

Step 6 - Double meld the gear with 2 Teir IV Materia of a specific Type as follows:

PLD = Mailbreaker + ? (Most Likely +HP based on AF stats)
MNK = Avengers + Manathirst IV (+MP)
WAR = Rampager + Touch of Rage IV (Emnity)
DRG = Obelisk + Savage Might IV (Crit Attack)
BRD = Sarnga + Heaven's Eye IV (Accuracy)
WHM = Alkaurops + ? (Most likely Mind based on AF stats)
BLM = Astrolobe + ****'s Fist IV (Magic Potency)

Step 7 - Kill chief NM of one specified Stronghold.

PLD =
MNK = Flamefist in Zaha'rak
WAR =
DRG =
BRD =
WHM =
BLM =

Step 8 - Gather 3 Materials from 6th Chest available at end of AV and CC Run
Items: Miser's Mythril (Aurum Vale), Alumina Salts (Cutter's Cry)

Step 9 - ?


In case none of you know; the Mailbreaker as an example requires hq peices to make the NQ version. The HQ peices use some mats that are ingame as NQ only and cost 100k each from npc, you can't farm them.

RNG for HQ blade item @ 100k a pop. Than you have to hope-to-**** you get +1 sword. Than you have to double meld that **** with two tier IV materia which is ~5% success to begin with.

And the quest system isn't done yet, no one knows the finish line....

Edited, Jun 7th 2012 6:53am by Elionara
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Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#2 Jun 06 2012 at 5:58 AM Rating: Default
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I agree. They should make it easy to get all of them so everyone has them all. It's enough that the game has a low enough skill curve that it's almost impossible to tell people apart. We should all look the same as well. I endorse this thread.
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#3 Jun 06 2012 at 5:59 AM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I agree. They should make it easy to get all of them so everyone has them all. It's enough that the game has a low enough skill curve that it's almost impossible to tell people apart. We should all look the same as well. I endorse this thread.


Only 1 seal drops from the hamlet with a drop rate similar to the primal fights :(

P.S. I think this is the first time you semi-agreed with me ^^ Quoted for excellence o.O

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 5:03am by Elionara
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#4 Jun 06 2012 at 6:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Who said you have to get all the relic weapons for every job?
Is this some kind of Pokemon challenge?

The primal weapons were BS because they provided you with random
stuff you couldn`t even use for your chosen profession in 6/7 cases.
Which meant that, if you were unlucky, you would not get your spear
after 200 runs even if you participated as a LNC in every single one
of them.

I actually think SE did something right this time. Make getting the
weapons pretty hard, but possible, and, hopefully later on, through
participation in more than the ever-same hamlet runs. Make it a
nightmare to collect them all; obsessive-compulsive hardcore
completionists have to feel the pain to feel special.

In my opinion, it shouldn`t be (humanly) possible to collect all the
artifact weapons for all classes and all jobs anyway. Let those who
call themselves "hardcore" try and waste their lives on it. Good riddance.

As long as I can be just as good a MNK after 1/7th of their invested time,
I am a happy monk. It`s a good idea: both hardcore and casuals are, after
a reasonable amount of investment, not too far apart in terms of job specific
power; and the former can still feel LEET if they succeed in the impossible.
Or grow up and settle for a role or two they actually want to play

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 8:37am by Rinsui
#5 Jun 06 2012 at 7:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Possible? Maybe from what I've heard; to get drops (since I can't get a party to save my life) is that you have to be:

In top 20 on server for that hamlet, which resets each hamlet.
1% drop rate on seal ( you need 9 ), apparently they won't release more hamlets so 3 drop from each hamlet, but only 1 at a time.
25,000 seal item from GC.

So I assume you get the crap weapon from GC for 25,000 seals. Than make sure you in the top 20 for that hamlet on your server (out of what? 2,000 active players at any time?); and THAN get 9 seals.

After that you can start the quest. When you finish you can rinse and repeat. Another thing I saw in Yoshi's post is that they might make the weapons meldable with materia but I can't find that one.

It's not a little hard, it's VERY time consuming. I know people who've scored 50k+ 5-7 times a day on hamlet since release and only have 2/9 seals....
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#6 Jun 06 2012 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Elionara wrote:
P.S. I think this is the first time you semi-agreed with me ^^ Quoted for excellence o.O


Sorry Eli, I forgot the sarcasm font. The only thing I really meant in that post was the part about the low skill curve ; ;

I do endorse the thread though because I'm interested to see what people have to say about it.


Edited, Jun 6th 2012 9:36am by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#7 Jun 06 2012 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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.

Edited, Jun 7th 2012 9:46pm by PalidorCarbuncle
#8 Jun 06 2012 at 7:41 AM Rating: Default
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@Elionora

Okok. We can discuss about the part of crappy random drop rates. I agree with you there,
and sincerely hope that Hamlet grinds (right after the Ifrit, Moogle, Garuda, Cutterscry grinds)
will not be the only way to obtain what you want. For "supermystic relic weapons", defending
a pile of shacks actually sounds a little... underwhelming anyway.

The two points I was trying to make were that
1.) This time it`s a clear target you can work for. No more random drops you cannot use.
2.) This event provides dedicated players with a long-term goal, and hardcore nerds with
an opportunity to waste their lifetime on. So they never get a girlfriend. They shouldn`t
reproduce anyway. The beauty of this system is that a dedicated but not insane player
will still be just as strong as a nerd in his/her chosen role after investing just 1/7 th of the
time in comparison to, let`s say the Ifrit weapons. Which is a little contradictory, since
Garuda already had the same sort of point system.

I think SE is trying out what`s working out as the "gold standard" at the moment. Like: what
does the community accept, what does it hate etc. Pretty smart to do that before launching 2.0.
That`s the most likely reason for why there`s a different loot system in place for every boss /
dungeon encounter since 1.19 (speedruns, chests, personalized random drops, seals, tokens).

Thank you for being civile enough not to resort to counter-insults after my rather rough post.

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 9:43am by Rinsui
#9 Jun 06 2012 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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I really like how ALL of them look, such a welcome change from the Primal weapons where some were hit and miss... for me.
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#10 Jun 06 2012 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
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@Rinsui :)

Never have a problem with most people unless they insult me personally ^^; Though I may have transgressed in other posts before lol.

I agree it's good to have long term content; but it appears this might be a bit too much. Now; personally if I only have to get this soiled note once than fine; I'm okay with it. Grinding 25k GC seals takes about 25-30 hours than I can do the quest line for the weapon; that's ok :)

30-40 hours to get 1 AF = Long enough? But to take 1-2 weeks if not longer to get 9 rare drops / weapon; idk. We shall see after update :)
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Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#11 Jun 06 2012 at 8:06 AM Rating: Good
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You took 25-30 hours to get 25k GC Seals? O_o Even soloing GC would give you 1.5k seals an hour. Chocobo Escort up to 4k an hour.
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#12 Jun 06 2012 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
You took 25-30 hours to get 25k GC Seals? O_o Even soloing GC would give you 1.5k seals an hour. Chocobo Escort up to 4k an hour.


I take my time and have fun :) I got more before until Totorak cooldown was added :D
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#13 Jun 06 2012 at 8:13 AM Rating: Decent
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4,146 posts
Elionara wrote:
I agree it's good to have long term content; but it appears this might be a bit too much.


I think it would be nice to see various stages. Hardcore relics for people who can dedicate the time and patience. Mid level, but still better than normal gear that people who have other engagements can participate in and complete in a reasonable amount of time. Lower level gear that is better than your average for casuals who participate when they can.

Call me crazy, but I really liked the trial weapon idea from FFXI and to this day it's one of the best systems for loot distribution I've ever seen in an MMO. No you are not delusional, I am giving SE credit. Just like Rin, I give it where it's due and a system that encourages team play and allows you freedom in when you want to participate(6 hour lotto pops excluded of course) gets a big sticker in my book.

I just wish XIV devs would take a better look at including things from XI that worked well.


____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#14 Jun 06 2012 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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I won't comment on the drop rate, because intended level for Hamlet Defense is up to 5 (level largely affect the drop rate) and they purposely limit it to 2 in current patch for an obvious reason (they don't want you to get everything ready when its out, for better or worse). I'm more disappointed it takes that long for the AF Weapons to be out (1.22c).

Also you don't need to be top 20 to get the drop.

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 10:19am by Khornette
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#15 Jun 06 2012 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I think it would be nice to see various stages. Hardcore relics for people who can dedicate the time and patience.

Hm. I am not sure whether I want to reward players who "dedicate" their time to clearing the same content 400 times in a row.
Strangely, I still liked dynamis. But that`s possibly because I only did it for about 10 times. Total. I can not even imagine how
people can stand fighting the same poor innocent boss over and over and over. Day in day out. Week after week. For months.
And I sincerely believed that`s the wrong type of player a company should cater to. Say what you want, but such mechanics
are partially responsible for people turning 30 before they have kissed their first girl.
#16 Jun 06 2012 at 8:35 AM Rating: Decent
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They're relic weapons for a reason? If you're not as hardcore, you can get materia-melded weapons and be as competent.

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#17 Jun 06 2012 at 8:48 AM Rating: Good
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I think if the best equipment requires you to run the same ****-easy 15-minute content 400 times in a row, the game stinks.
Of "1880, England, child labor factory".
#18 Jun 06 2012 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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You need the 25,000 key item for every weapon you start. These are relic's, they will take time to complete, you will probably not do a second one, unless you want to Smiley: dubious.. From what is know this will be a LS effort, So far we only know 2 steps.
Step 1: 25,000 GP points
Step 2: 3 seals for each hamlet
[speculation]
Step #: Drop from the beast man leaders
Step #: Trade one of each primal weapon
Step #: Drop from CC & AV final boss
Step #: use you imagination... this will not be something you get over night....

PS: i did Dyna.. for 4 years... So 4 people could get a relic...

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 10:53am by TwiddleDee
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#19 Jun 06 2012 at 9:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ironic that a person can now solo a level 75 relic weapon in XI in about three months of daily casual play...

I have an XI relic (Ghorn) that is presently stuck at level 95 because getting the 99 version involves having an HNM/Dyna shell and being their Chosen One for 500-1000 Xarcabard runs. Haaaaaah.
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#20 Jun 06 2012 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Hm. I am not sure whether I want to reward players who "dedicate" their time to clearing the same content 400 times in a row.
Strangely, I still liked dynamis. But that`s possibly because I only did it for about 10 times. Total. I can not even imagine how
people can stand fighting the same poor innocent boss over and over and over. Day in day out. Week after week. For months.
And I sincerely believed that`s the wrong type of player a company should cater to. Say what you want, but such mechanics
are partially responsible for people turning 30 before they have kissed their first girl.


Sadly, it took me years to obtain the currency I needed to finish my relic in XI, but it was something I did on and off. It was 6 hours a week I "dedicated" to getting something that was worthwhile and this left me plenty of time to make girls cry... er, I mean kiss them. Dyna was a boring grind I didn't much enjoy outside of the epic Xarc soundtrack to be honest.

I'm not suggesting that SE cater the game to one specific type of player, but nearly any player would agree regardless of their playtime that rewards are usually distributed according to the difficulty of the task set forth. Unfortunately in the case of XI, difficulty was usually defined in terms of time to completion. In any argument about the difficulty of XI vs any other game, XI players always pointed out the amount of time invested to be rewarded. I personally didn't agree with or like the idea, but that is the route SE chose.

If you have any adaptation of the current model I'm all ears, but I'm pretty sure SE likes the combination of lockouts, extremely rare drops and repetitive content grinding.

catwho wrote:
I have an XI relic (Ghorn) that is presently stuck at level 95 because getting the 99 version involves having an HNM/Dyna shell and being their Chosen One for 500-1000 Xarcabard runs. Haaaaaah.


Easier(and less time consuming) these days to farm up the gil to buy the items.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#21 Jun 06 2012 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm, these are slightly harder to get than 11's relic weapons, but definitely better than trying to upgrade one of the 11 Relics once.

I just hope the stats aren't inline with the dropped version from 11... That would be too funny... "I just spent a week getting this... and it has a dps of .09???WTF!?!?!?"
#22 Jun 06 2012 at 2:20 PM Rating: Default
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PalidorCarbuncle wrote:
I'm going to side with the "this is bullsh*t" people.

When I played XI, I was 10 years younger. I had the time to fall for this sort of bullsh*t. Now that I'm older, have a career, have a live-in girlfriend, my familys health isnt good, and the games market is over saturated with hundreds of blockbuster games to play through, I honestly don't have time for this crap.


Then it's clearly not designed for you, simple logic, take it or leave it.
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#23 Jun 06 2012 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
Who said you have to get all the relic weapons for every job?
Is this some kind of Pokemon challenge?

The primal weapons were BS because they provided you with random
stuff you couldn`t even use for your chosen profession in 6/7 cases.
Which meant that, if you were unlucky, you would not get your spear
after 200 runs even if you participated as a LNC in every single one
of them.

I actually think SE did something right this time. Make getting the
weapons pretty hard, but possible, and, hopefully later on, through
participation in more than the ever-same hamlet runs. Make it a
nightmare to collect them all; obsessive-compulsive hardcore
completionists have to feel the pain to feel special.

In my opinion, it shouldn`t be (humanly) possible to collect all the
artifact weapons for all classes and all jobs anyway. Let those who
call themselves "hardcore" try and waste their lives on it. Good riddance.

As long as I can be just as good a MNK after 1/7th of their invested time,
I am a happy monk. It`s a good idea: both hardcore and casuals are, after
a reasonable amount of investment, not too far apart in terms of job specific
power; and the former can still feel LEET if they succeed in the impossible.
Or grow up and settle for a role or two they actually want to play

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 8:37am by Rinsui


"I hate people that derive pleasure from gearing out multiple classes. It makes me feel inferior for only playing a few roles and think I am above them due to some perceived, arrogant superiority in a virtual game. I want my developers to purposely design content I can never complete so I can lord it over other players when they're endingless chasing this content that they pay for."

Man, I wonder if this FFXI stigma of "difficult=time=hardcore" will ever die. It's one of the stupidest mentalities I've ever seen.
#24 Jun 06 2012 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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I personally think the ultimate weapon or gear set should have certain requirements to obtain. It has to be extremely rare, something 1-10% of your playerbase may have.

1. Long term goal- I know that some people feel that time consuming isn't fair. But this helps keep it rare. The longer the item takes to aquire, the longer the item retains rarity.

2. Extremely difficult stages- Difficult encounters at certain intervals for unlocking it. This is needed to keep the content rewarding you for skill and not only time freedom. While practice can make you better. Time doesn't always guarantee you will master something. This concept is true in rl and should apply to this content.

3. Require large groups- If you can solo it, the rarity will drop. If the content has a good amount of number 2 above. Finding a pick up group to excel continuously will be difficult. This encourages players to join a static and work as a cohesive unit. Rarity increases.

4. Game currency requirement- This shouldn't allow you to buy the ultimate weapon with gil alone. But it should factor somewhat into it. It just helps increase the rarity a bit.

All that being said, I think only 5-10% of this content should exist in the game. It is not wise to develop a game centralised around content rewards, 90% of your playerbase will ever see. Rarity of that magnitude is for that tiny percent that wishes to put in the work required to be a snowflake. I won't touch this type of content with a ten foot pole. But that option should exist. Just give the remaining playerbase difficult content that doesn't require peeing into bottles or living at our pcs. And make that second to third tier gear a cut above easier rewards and a shade below the ultimate set.
#25 Jun 06 2012 at 4:15 PM Rating: Default
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And SE strikes yet again, with another "1998-2003" Mechanic in a 2012 MMORPG! Gosh Squeenix! When will you ever let me down <3
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#26 Jun 06 2012 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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I am looking forward to working on my relic weapon(s)! As long as the stats on it are clearly above and beyond anything you can obtain any other way I will be happy ^^
#27 Jun 06 2012 at 5:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Viertel wrote:

Man, I wonder if this FFXI stigma of "difficult=time=hardcore" will ever die. It's one of the stupidest mentalities I've ever seen.


This. Sorry but I hate hate hate this. Hate it. I just don't understand why stuff like this can't be paced for the normal person to achieve in a reasonable amount of time. MMOs need to get over this mentality of "we have to make it take 20,000 hours or the people that play 10 hours a day will get mad" - seriously. SERIOUSLY.

How about the rest of us who have to go to work and maintain social relationships and perhaps have other hobbies? On a "heavy gaming" week I spend about 10 hours playing MMOs these days. How about having endgame stuff that is tuned so that mooks like me don't have to sacrifice real world commitments in order to participate in endgame (and don't kid yourself - just look at XI, good luck being a DD without some kind of "ultimate weapon" in end game). I'd be fine if I knew this would take me 3 months max of really casual play (being able to do other stuff as well) - but I am NOT going to log in like a job for a digital weapon.

Also, telling casuals "well if you only do this one event every time you log in you can complete these in 3 years!" reasonable - nor is it a way to keep players.

Poorly played.
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#28 Jun 06 2012 at 6:27 PM Rating: Good
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^^ I personally have no problem with such items existing, but they cannot be the be all end all of items Period! Repeating a task a million times does not make you a skilled player, it just does not work that way, i know many FFXI vets think they where really skilled back in 03 because they had no life and could just camp and out bot other LS for items, but there is really no skill whatsoever involved in waiting 50 hours for a spawn with 600 bots to get a claim..... Nor is there any skilled involved in clearing 500 times the same content over and over and over and Over! Obviously if you cleared it 3 times in a row, the content is below your skill level :/

Now if this items where to drop from a Boss! A boss that requires you to do a quest chain to pop, and sure the quest chain can be none casual friendly, but dont make it "Farm 50 million seals, then get every single wepon dropped from primals, then have your toon logged in for 56 hrs straight to pop said boss" Have the boss itself be CHALLENGING!!

We all win :) The hardcore crowd gets a really tough boss fight that involves some fetching and grinding, and the normal regular people get something they can work towards, and the only thing stopping them is if they can get good enough to beat said boss, not just "Drop life if you want this item"
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#29 Jun 06 2012 at 6:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus wrote:
I'd be fine if I knew this would take me 3 months max of really casual play (being able to do other stuff as well) - but I am NOT going to log in like a job for a digital weapon.

You said that you play 10 hours a week on a good week. Let's assume, then, that you play 30 hours a month.

You're saying you'd be fine with the hunt for your relic weapon to take under 90 hours (3 months at 30 hours/month), as long as you can still do other stuff during those 90 hours.

Let's say that translates into 30% of your time spent hunting the relic weapon, and the 60 remaining % used to play with friends, level jobs, do quests and such.

You want the "best" weapon of the game to be achievable in something like 30 hours, which mean that one day to a week after patch, "everyone in the game has theirs but me, where's diversity, and what's there to do anymore" ? It would be the same complaints we heard about people getting their 7th full AF set about a month ago on this very board!

I just don't get this community sometimes. /shrug

Personally, I choose simply not to pursue things that I consider too low on the effort:reward scale. Is it so hard to just settle for a second best or AH-able weapon instead? I'm working on making my THM an Astrolabe, because that sounds like something a silly casual like me can reach, given enough time and effort.
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#30 Jun 06 2012 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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sandpark wrote:
I personally think the ultimate weapon or gear set should have certain requirements to obtain. It has to be extremely rare, something 1-10% of your playerbase may have.

1. Long term goal- I know that some people feel that time consuming isn't fair. But this helps keep it rare. The longer the item takes to aquire, the longer the item retains rarity.


Explain to me why there "needs" to be "rarity" of items in an MMO?

sandpark wrote:
2. Extremely difficult stages- Difficult encounters at certain intervals for unlocking it. This is needed to keep the content rewarding you for skill and not only time freedom. While practice can make you better. Time doesn't always guarantee you will master something. This concept is true in rl and should apply to this content.


Real Life concepts need to apply in a "Fantasy World"?

sandpark wrote:
3. Require large groups- If you can solo it, the rarity will drop. If the content has a good amount of number 2 above. Finding a pick up group to excel continuously will be difficult. This encourages players to join a static and work as a cohesive unit. Rarity increases.


Already asked my question on "rarity" above

sandpark wrote:
All that being said, I think only 5-10% of this content should exist in the game. It is not wise to develop a game centralised around content rewards, 90% of your playerbase will ever see. Rarity of that magnitude is for that tiny percent that wishes to put in the work required to be a snowflake. I won't touch this type of content with a ten foot pole. But that option should exist. Just give the remaining playerbase difficult content that doesn't require peeing into bottles or living at our pcs. And make that second to third tier gear a cut above easier rewards and a shade below the ultimate set.


So you don't want to have the best stuff the game you pay for offers? Not attacking you, just questioning.
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#31 Jun 06 2012 at 6:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Docent42 wrote:
You want the "best" weapon of the game to be achievable in something like 30 hours, which mean that one day to a week after patch, "everyone in the game has theirs but me, where's diversity, and what's there to do anymore" ? It would be the same complaints we heard about people getting their 7th full AF set about a month ago on this very board!

I just don't get this community sometimes. /shrug


Let me help you get it then.

There's this thing called a "forced wait." Could you (originally) go into Dynamis over and over again to collect gear? No, you had to wait a few days to try again. Limbus was like this, so was Salvage, so was Assault. Could you fight "Fafhogg" as much as you wanted? No, you had to wait for the spawn time to go by, first, before making your next attempt.

There's a limit to how often rare gear could be collected because there was a limit to the amount of attempts to collect it. Currently, in FFXIV, we have a system of near unlimited attempts to get something you want. This means, rather than pacing everyone into reasonable event windows they can schedule with improved drop rates, you have to spam the event over and over with a miserable chance of success each time.

On the plus side, you have hardcore players who aren't bored from having nothing to do (though the tedium of doing the same unchallenging event hundreds of times can't be all that thrilling). On the down side, you have casual players who can't participate in this ridiculous regimen because there just no time to repeatedly stab at the bad drop rate meant to appease hardcore players. There's no "forced wait" route that they can use to accomplish the same goal in a reasonable amount of time in the long run and even if there were, it could be hard getting "hardcore" help with it if they have their own shortcut.
#32 Jun 06 2012 at 7:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Xoie wrote:
There's a limit to how often rare gear could be collected because there was a limit to the amount of attempts to collect it. Currently, in FFXIV, we have a system of near unlimited attempts to get something you want.

Yeah, I know that, but using time-locked content is seen as evil and a time sink meant to get more money from the poor players, it would be deemd "so 2000" and SE would be told to stop living in last century and get on with the newest trend as seen in GW2/TERA/etc..

Nevermind the fact even WoW has time lock on raids/heroic instances, and that spam-speed running instaces for loot is true even in story driven MMOs like SWTOR.

Bah, I'm happy to see relic weapons, but as a casually-solo/duo oriented player, I look at them, and I instantly know I'll never get one - no need to even get my hopes up about it. Just like all the top-tier raid drop in other games. I just don't care to play with a bunch of strangers for a random chance at an item that will make me stronger at beating the content... that I just beat to get the item.

It's a compulsion loop that just doesn't affect me. I guess some people get hooked and go for it, and others but can't put the time to get it, so they get frustrated about it.
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#33 Jun 06 2012 at 7:29 PM Rating: Good
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http://i49.tinypic.com/jz9z7q.png

The stat is quite ****, for example BLM one has unique effect of reducing MP cost every spell by 50. Also they each enhance a Job skill which isn't shown up in there.

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 9:29pm by Khornette
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#34 Jun 06 2012 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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^^^ There is Monumental difference between mentioned MMO'S and FFXIV, in said mmo's the best pieces of equipment are dropped by content that is allowed to be obtained by a players skill level, not amount of time spent online.

Why should the best equipment be dropped to the players who spend most time online not the most skilled ones ? There is no skill in farming or grinding that is a Fact.
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#35 Jun 06 2012 at 7:41 PM Rating: Decent
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jayfly wrote:

Explain to me why there "needs" to be "rarity" of items in an MMO?


Real Life concepts need to apply in a "Fantasy World"?


Already asked my question on "rarity" above


So you don't want to have the best stuff the game you pay for offers? Not attacking you, just questioning.

There needs to be rarity to allow individuality. Everyone wants an identity, it's the reason for many complaints XIV received at 1.0 launch. Rinsui commented on being glad we couldn't unlock relics for all jobs. This contrast somewhat with rarity. What's the point of progression if all roads are straight and narrow?

Real life does apply vaguely to an mmo. If time was the only determining factor in mastery of a craft. We wouldn't have Mozart, Satriani, Edison, any famous people. Because everyone would obtain the same proficiency.

I do like to progress in videogames. But I find more enjoyment & value leveling my crafts outside the game more. Also gear can be very important when it comes down to equal skill. However, skill & attention to detail usually varies amongst players.
#36 Jun 07 2012 at 1:51 AM Rating: Good
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Cough cough...
Perhaps this wouldn't be such a contoversial issue if FF wasn't so much based on stats, rather than skill.
I am not sure why anyone could rate down Ostia for what he/she said this time. I mean, he/she may not
always post stuff everybody can agree on, but what's possibly wrong about not wanting to run the same
speedrun 500 times in a row? I mean, how sick can you become?

He/she also is on spot with the comment about difficulty. It's not an achievement when you manage to
hit a blackboard with a hammer 500 times in a row @ age 30. That just shows you prefer content that
is challenging for a toddler. Doing the same easy thing over and over doesn't suddenly make it "hard",
and it definitely doesn't make you "elite". It makes you waste a lot of your youth on a task that should
already be way below your intellectual level.
#37 Jun 07 2012 at 2:10 AM Rating: Good
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Btw:
I just read that obtaining a relic weapon includes double-melding T4 materia to the class specific weapons.
****, I know I would hate that poor crafter forever if he blew up my hard-earned relic, even if he was
completely innocent. Smart move to bring the community together, SE. Smart move, as always. -.-/

You know, whenever you think SE can't possibly top their own 1980 no-life nerd attitude, they never
fail to prove you wrong. Somehow that's the one area they always manage to deliver. Impressive.


Edited, Jun 7th 2012 4:40am by Rinsui
#38 Jun 07 2012 at 3:26 AM Rating: Default
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At least it doesn't take months to get one, and then lose it permanently when you die (in it), like EVE.
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#39 Jun 07 2012 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Cough cough...
Perhaps this wouldn't be such a contoversial issue if FF wasn't so much based on stats, rather than skill.
I am not sure why anyone could rate down Ostia for what he/she said this time.


I can't help but feel somewhat responsible... After all I did get rated into oblivion for pretty much the same.

Filth: Hey look, it's a hornets nest!

Ostia: Shakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshake

SE would be required to change the battle system and encounter mechanics to allow players to earn gear through skill. I would love to see it happen, but I know that they're quite content with their two other models which are forced repetition aka 'Do this 500 times' and/or the slight variation being RNG rarity. Perhaps one day someone over at HQ will realize that they can still avoid players needing to have 'skill' in their MMOs and retain subscriptions simply by creating a game that is fun.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#40 Jun 07 2012 at 6:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Figure I should throw it here

http://www.mooglebox.com/122/index.php

Scroll down, there are Grand Company Lieutenant Equipment, including Weapons (coming 1.22c). If you don't want grindy grind AF, there's your alternative and they do look ****.
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#41 Jun 07 2012 at 6:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
At least it doesn't take months to get one, and then lose it permanently when you die (in it), like EVE.

Right. Because SE refined that formula to: "You spend months to get one, and then you lose it permanently in the synth."
#42 Jun 07 2012 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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Updated op with post from lodestone:

So far this is it:

Quote:
So is this about right so far?


Step 1 - Earn 25,000 seals and buy the key item "On the Properties of Beastment"

Step 2 - Obtain Inferno Seal x3, Tremor Seal x3, Vortex Seal x3 from Rank 2 Hamlet (gold chest requiring 60K+ scores)

Step 3 - Talk to Rowena and Exchange for a Soiled Promissory Note

Step 4 - Go to Gerolt and start Quest "A Relic Reborn"

Step 5 - Gather HQ mats and craft or buy Class-Only Weapons (prefferably HQ)

Step 6 - Double meld the gear with 2 Teir IV Materia of a specific Type as follows:

PLD = Mailbreaker + ? (Most Likely +HP based on AF stats)
MNK = Avengers + Manathirst IV (+MP)
WAR = Rampager + Touch of Rage IV (Emnity)
DRG = Obelisk + Savage Might IV (Crit Attack)
BRD = Sarnga + Heaven's Eye IV (Accuracy)
WHM = Alkaurops + ? (Most likely Mind based on AF stats)
BLM = Astrolobe + ****'s Fist IV (Magic Potency)

Step 7 - Kill chief NM of one specified Stronghold.

PLD =
MNK = Flamefist in Zaha'rak
WAR =
DRG =
BRD =
WHM =
BLM =

Step 8 - Gather 3 Materials from 6th Chest available at end of AV and CC Run
Items: Miser's Mythril (Aurum Vale), Alumina Salts (Cutter's Cry)

Step 9 - ?


In case none of you know; the Mailbreaker as an example requires hq peices to make the NQ version. The HQ peices use some mats that are ingame as NQ only and cost 100k each from npc, you can't farm them.

RNG for HQ blade item @ 100k a pop. Than you have to hope-to-**** you get +1 sword. Than you have to double meld that sh*t with two tier IV materia which is ~5% success to begin with.

And the quest system isn't done yet, no one knows the finish line....

I'll say it again /bendsover. SE can kiss my *** >.> This isn't "challenging". It's not "skill" based. It's purely RNG if you succeed or not on melding/getting that +1 from NQ mats.

Also please note that the materia now is going for 1-3mil a pop.

Edited, Jun 7th 2012 6:57am by Elionara
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#43 Jun 07 2012 at 8:02 AM Rating: Decent
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FYI, lvl 2 Hamlet reduce said Mat price to 50k. Coeurl Skin HQ is actually sold in Aleport at any level. Maximum Hamlet lvl is 5, there is no saying that lvl 5 Hamlet won't sell said Mat HQ at discounted price. Militia Bracelet give 10% extra (on your chance) to HQ synth.

You don't need to +1 to double meld, someone in said thread shown an Obelisk double melded and it's NQ. The chance to double meld Grade IV is roughly 15%-20% dependent on the quality of the Materia (lower end GIV is easier to meld).

And before you're going to say 4m a weapon, on Masamune all of them are 1.5m. With people who boast having 100+ m of gil, let them spend their gil. Didn't someone just want all gil wipe before 2.0?

Edited, Jun 7th 2012 10:04am by Khornette
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#44 Jun 07 2012 at 8:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
FYI, lvl 2 Hamlet reduce said Mat price to 50k. Coeurl Skin HQ is actually sold in Aleport at any level. Maximum Hamlet lvl is 5, there is no saying that lvl 5 Hamlet won't sell said Mat HQ at discounted price. Militia Bracelet give 10% extra (on your chance) to HQ synth.

You don't need to +1 to double meld, someone in said thread shown an Obelisk double melded and it's NQ. The chance to double meld Grade IV is roughly 15%-20% dependent on the quality of the Materia (lower end GIV is easier to meld).

And before you're going to say 4m a weapon, on Masamune all of them are 1.5m. With people who boast having 100+ m of gil, let them spend their gil. Didn't someone just want all gil wipe before 2.0?

Edited, Jun 7th 2012 10:04am by Khornette


Well hoorah if you don't need +1 but you still need to +1 the base weapon part using nq mats. As an armor I've attempted nearly 1000 double melds of tier iv's and while it says you have a 17-20% change in the window it isn't that high. I'm also saying 4mil a weapon because on Excalibur the materia alone is around 3mil.

As it stands i have 16mil there just may be a chance even if I buy the mailbreaker for PLD from the wards that the double melding of it will cost me all of that 16mil. This whole relic system is not about skill or being challenged. It's about timesinking and gilsinking.

Edited, Jun 7th 2012 7:36am by Elionara
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Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#45 Jun 07 2012 at 8:48 AM Rating: Good
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So you don't want to have the best stuff the game you pay for offers? Not attacking you, just questioning.

You realize that the relic weapons don't actually exist, right? They're pixels on a screen. You're paying for an experience -- amusement, diversion, companionship, challenge. If the game started you at level 50 in every job with every item, would you think that you got what you paid for?

These weapons represent new activities, not new items. If the activity isn't fun for you, then that's a problem. If there aren't enough fun activities for you to do in the entire game to keep you active and amused, then that's a problem. But, the length or difficulty of any given activity or goal is not a problem -- you want more things to do, not less.
#46 Jun 07 2012 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
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I have a mailbreaker, it cost me 2 million gil. I've been using it for the lolz when I don't need to play PLD seriously.

Don't make a big drama out of nothing -- the "HQ weapons" are somewhat expensive, but they're not 16 millions. The price can spike up because of the quest, but it won't stay there -- patience is a virtue and all that.
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#47 Jun 07 2012 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
And SE strikes yet again, with another "1998-2003" Mechanic in a 2012 MMORPG! Gosh Squeenix! When will you ever let me down <3


I was unaware in the window 2003 to 2012 the world had changed, and people no longer needed to invest time, effort, sweat, exe in order to get something. I didn't know the new trend was give everyone everything just for participating. These are the "relic" weapons, they are intended for only the truly hardy players who can commit to it. They are not required, there are alternatives, and no one will think less of you for not having one. I personally will not be getting one, but i am still happy that they were made so you cant obtain over night.

Edited, Jun 7th 2012 11:36am by TwiddleDee
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#48 Jun 07 2012 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
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I gotta say I love it.

Then again, I don't see a difference between spending 3 months trying to figure out how to defeat a mob (fighting it over and over again) and fighting a mob over and over again and winning. Other than one is depressing and costs more in gear repair, and the other is tedious, and results in less caring about the victory, cause you have already done it 200 times before.

Oh, I suppose the mob you have to spend 3 months to defeat is the mob less people are likely to beat, and then you are more elite because you have the shiny and nobody else does (hard-core vs casual play)...

And, then again, it forces people to band together, since a pickup party will almost never beat a mob like that (especially with out an exploit of some sort). So linkshells will become more active as people setup for those fights.

With that elitist mentality becomes a stronger motivator, and more die-hard players have fun... I could see that work I guess.
#49 Jun 07 2012 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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Docent42 wrote:
I have a mailbreaker, it cost me 2 million gil. I've been using it for the lolz when I don't need to play PLD seriously.

Don't make a big drama out of nothing -- the "HQ weapons" are somewhat expensive, but they're not 16 millions. The price can spike up because of the quest, but it won't stay there -- patience is a virtue and all that.


Double melding 2 materia says in the game 15-20% change even if it was 25% chance you run the risk of using 8 total materia at 1.5mil each. I can definitely cost upto that much unless some nice person will sell it on ah for 4mil but why would they lose money? Why would they be nice?
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Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#50 Jun 07 2012 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Elionara wrote:
Double melding 2 materia says in the game 15-20% change even if it was 25% chance you run the risk of using 8 total materia at 1.5mil each. I can definitely cost upto that much unless some nice person will sell it on ah for 4mil but why would they lose money? Why would they be nice?

Make the materia yourself, it's free.
Have it melded by random crafters.

If you chose to buy the double-melded weapon at the AH, it's because you consider your time is worth more than your gil. If that's the case, why do you care what happens to your gil, it's just collecting dust anyway, and someone had to put the effort to make the weapon and meld it properly in the first place.

It's not like gil had any use before in the game, why panic about using it now? I'm sitting on millions, and I never did anything to get them, they just fell in my wallet from regular playing.
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#51 Jun 07 2012 at 9:41 AM Rating: Good
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Elionara wrote:

Double melding 2 materia says in the game 15-20% change even if it was 25% chance you run the risk of using 8 total materia at 1.5mil each. I can definitely cost upto that much unless some nice person will sell it on ah for 4mil but why would they lose money? Why would they be nice?


20% - 25% does not mean you will get a double meld, if you try 4-5 times respectively... so really it could take as little as 1 attempt, and up to X attempts to actually get a double.

Edit: after further look at things, from all the relic's some will be higher demand then others... while some things can not be duplicated, you can get pretty **** close.. so even if one does not invest in a relic they will be good to go. Flame Lieutenant's melee weapons and Garuda melee weapons to me seem a better alternative then "relic" actually... the mage "relic" seem like on only one's really worth the effort...

Edited, Jun 7th 2012 12:11pm by TwiddleDee
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