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You’ve never seen Final Fantasy like this before. (ArticleFollow

#1 Jun 06 2012 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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My favorite things from it:
Quote:
There will be a way for players to train their own Chocobos from birth, giving them unique abilities for taking a support role in-game, like a mage chocobo or an item-storage chocobo.

Quote:
Other things familiar to fans of the Final Fantasy franchise will manifest in various areas, like the Crystal Towers from Final Fantasy III, and the Magi Tech Armor (another mount that players can ride in the current game) from Final Fantasy VI. Yoshida said that the team wants to take various areas from earlier games, update them for the Final Fantasy XIV universe, and aallow players to roam through settings and areas tehy might be excited about from earlier installments. “We want all players from the 25 year history of the franchise to have those recognition moments,” said Yoshida.

Second one is huge to me personally o.O

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 7:46am by Elionara
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Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

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#2 Jun 06 2012 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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I do like the fact he is focusing on FFans and making a game for them. I can't wait to see what it looks this September.
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#3 Jun 06 2012 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
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So they're going to infuse XIV with memorable moments, areas and possibly characters from previous games? I'm not sure I like that idea. To me it wreaks of "We couldn't come up with anything new and original so we're going to use a bunch of old stuff we know worked before".

Don't get me wrong, I loved some of these things from the games of the past. They were the reason these games stood out from other games at the time. Should SE be successful with XIV somehow we will look back at how we looked back even further because we couldn't look ahead? That might not make sense...

Don't feed me stuff I loved 25 years ago. Give me new things I'll look back on 25 years from now.

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 12:11pm by FilthMcNasty
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#4 Jun 06 2012 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
So they're going to infuse XIV with memorable moments, areas and possibly characters from previous games? I'm not sure I like that idea. To me it wreaks of "We couldn't come up with anything new and original so we're going to use a bunch of old stuff we know worked before".

Don't get me wrong, I loved some of these things from the games of the past. They were the reason these games stood out from other games at the time. Should SE be successful with XIV somehow we will look back at how we looked back even further because we couldn't look ahead? That might not make sense...

Don't feed me stuff I loved 25 years ago. Give me new things I'll look back on 25 years from now.

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 12:11pm by FilthMcNasty



My advice to you: Never play Final Fantasy IX.

For me though, I love the nostalgic throwbacks. I did notice they were missing Tonberries. I hope they introduce those in the future. Besides, they came up with new original things. It was called Final Fantasy XIII and XIV 1.0. New and innovative in every single way doesn't necessarily mean that it will be good.

Does that mean I want everything to be a throwback? Not necessarily, but if this game became a FFIX-style MMO to where it mixes elements from older games and mixes them with popular MMO elements, I'd be perfectly okay with that.

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 9:51am by UltKnightGrover
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#5 Jun 06 2012 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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http://www.gametrailers.com/game/the-final-fantasy-retrospective/4831

I have no problem with aspects of FF past coming back into the game. Magitek armor mounts is great idea. As long as they can weave it into FFXIV lore and have it make sense then I say go for it. It tells me they understand the series and how important FF past is.
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#6 Jun 06 2012 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Just as long as the zones suit the game and we don't have characters from other titles making cameos.

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 1:19pm by Dizmo
#7 Jun 06 2012 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Every Final Fantasy game is an homage to past ones at some level. I don't think Yoshida intends to make FFXIV into Dissidia, however. Though the continued use of the funny "i" as in FFX|V makes me wonder if this really will be called FF15 eventually. So in that case, maybe FFXV will resemble FFXIV quite a bit Smiley: tongue
#8 Jun 06 2012 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't mind the thought of throwbacks at all, in fact I welcome them personally. Of the franchises involved in modern MMOs, Final Fantasy is arguably the one with the richest history in gaming. Or at least, I can't think of any online franchises within the last 10 years that can touch the 25 year history or the amount of highly beloved titles that have been released over the years (there may be something I'm missing, but regardless...).

With that said, being a "Final Fantasy" title is for me and possibly some others, one of the main aspects that separates the online FF franchise compared to every other online game out there. The series already has many recurring aspects such as enemies (goblins, tonberries, mandragora), summoned creatures, crystals, airships, chocobos, etc. and I'm certainly not against using other ideas that people enjoyed from the past games. This is still the same series after all, and they don't need to reinvent the wheel every time, especially in an online version of an offline franchise where many fans of the series are looking to play in an expansive multiplayer world that stays true to the series. As long as they don't start ripping the main cast members from the past games (which I seriously doubt they'd do), I'm all for the series references such as those mentioned in the article.

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 2:04pm by Susanoh
#9 Jun 06 2012 at 12:10 PM Rating: Default
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
My advice to you: Never play Final Fantasy IX.

For me though, I love the nostalgic throwbacks. I did notice they were missing Tonberries. I hope they introduce those in the future. Besides, they came up with new original things. It was called Final Fantasy XIII and XIV 1.0. New and innovative in every single way doesn't necessarily mean that it will be good.


I stopped at FFVIII although my sister did make me play a little FFX.

I don't mind throwback and I really don't even mind them using the same races, mobs ect. from game to game. I just don't want to see characters. This is one of the main reasons I really like FF games in general is the characters, their relationships and their stories. I don't want to see FF turned into FF Universe where there are constant crossovers.
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#10 Jun 06 2012 at 12:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Final Fantasy IX is full of references to other games in the series, though not explicitly. There's even one scene in a weapon store where the main character sees a buster sword and says something along the lines of: "Oh yeah, I've seen a spikey haired kid who had something like this."

But you're right, I don't want anything where all of the sudden we see Sephiroth as a notorious monster or something.
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#11 Jun 06 2012 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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Cameo good guy protaganists or friendly npcs might be a bit much. But I have no problems with creature returns adapted to XIV lore. Instead of cameos, they could have job/class companions presented how they would be in a single player game with deep, unique personalties.Like a samarui that relates to Auron or Cyan but looks and feels different. An iconic flashback like TOR did with their game.

Why not do a Gambits 2.0 for pets or npc companions? You need the power of a samarui? Call upon that npc as you develop a bond with them thru shared ordeals. MT. Ordeals, what? Need a mimic? Call upon the iconic virtue representation of GoGo? Make some Gambit decks to customize strategies. How about some return of the active time events? So you can get the feeling that your friendly npc is not just a puppet to do your bidding. Why not an ATE pc feature? Your running a quest and would like to show a friend how it is. With your permission, that friend could see from your perspective briefly.

When you play an EDS mmo, you expect to see areas or races from that universe. Why is it wrong to see that in an FF mmo? Sure, most FF take place in different worlds. But why can't it be adapted? Your not playing an FF mmo because it feels just like others, are you? Can we get some pc cohesion encouragement like skillchains, battle regiments or swordtech? Wait, swordtech is from a different rpg. Can't do that or it wouldn't be original. Be cool as **** though, don't you think? Well they could do the vivi/steiner magic sword thing. That is FF, I think?
#12 Jun 06 2012 at 1:08 PM Rating: Default
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So not only are they using parts of the main series stories, now they will use zones and stuff too <.< Ah! Squeenix! You are just golden <3

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#13 Jun 06 2012 at 1:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
My advice to you: Never play Final Fantasy IX.

For me though, I love the nostalgic throwbacks. I did notice they were missing Tonberries. I hope they introduce those in the future. Besides, they came up with new original things. It was called Final Fantasy XIII and XIV 1.0. New and innovative in every single way doesn't necessarily mean that it will be good.


I stopped at FFVIII although my sister did make me play a little FFX.

I don't mind throwback and I really don't even mind them using the same races, mobs ect. from game to game. I just don't want to see characters. This is one of the main reasons I really like FF games in general is the characters, their relationships and their stories. I don't want to see FF turned into FF Universe where there are constant crossovers.



Yeah, but there's already Cid.
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#14 Jun 06 2012 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
So not only are they using parts of the main series stories, now they will use zones and stuff too <.< Ah! Squeenix! You are just golden <3



No, that's not what they're doing. Read clearly next time.
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#15 Jun 06 2012 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Ostia wrote:
So not only are they using parts of the main series stories, now they will use zones and stuff too <.< Ah! Squeenix! You are just golden <3



No, that's not what they're doing. Read clearly next time.


Actually he wants the crystal tower and cocoon style areas :P As per andriasang and a few others
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Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

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#16 Jun 06 2012 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
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But they're not using part of the main series stories.
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#17 Jun 06 2012 at 5:31 PM Rating: Default
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Elionara wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Ostia wrote:
So not only are they using parts of the main series stories, now they will use zones and stuff too <.< Ah! Squeenix! You are just golden <3



No, that's not what they're doing. Read clearly next time.


Actually he wants the crystal tower and cocoon style areas :P As per andriasang and a few others


Was crystal tower not part of FFIII ?
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#18 Jun 06 2012 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
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meteor? really? So what is dalmud then?

Ostia wrote:


Was crystal tower not part of FFIII ?


This too.

I personally think the whole idea is sort of neat, and I am just starting to get cautiously optimistic about 2.0 - if only, if only, if only, they fix combat.

/prays a little

Seriously. Even if they just make one job with combat I don't hate... maybe beastmaster.

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 4:42pm by Olorinus
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#19 Jun 06 2012 at 6:27 PM Rating: Default
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Olorinus wrote:
meteor? really? So what is dalmud then?

Ostia wrote:


Was crystal tower not part of FFIII ?


This too.

I personally think the whole idea is sort of neat, and I am just starting to get cautiously optimistic about 2.0 - if only, if only, if only, they fix combat.

/prays a little

Seriously. Even if they just make one job with combat I don't hate... maybe beastmaster.

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 4:42pm by Olorinus


What exactly is it thats wrong with combat? This is how they plan to leave it. They may make tweaks to the positioning for skill chains, but other than that I don't expect them to change combat much at all. Also, in case you haven't read the most recent letter from yoshi-p, he talked about possible new classes they will add for 2.0 and summoner/beastmaster was the most wanted. Chances are they'll add one of the two.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot to mention that Dalamud is a satellite/meteor that is being summoned by the empire. Far off in the distance, at the beginning of the 7th umbral events, it looked like a small red star. Now that it's about to smack us in the face it's more like a satellite.

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 8:29pm by swisa
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#20 Jun 06 2012 at 6:57 PM Rating: Default
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Ostia wrote:
So not only are they using parts of the main series stories, now they will use zones and stuff too <.< Ah! Squeenix! You are just golden <3



No, that's not what they're doing. Read clearly next time.


UltKnightGrover wrote:
But they're not using part of the main series stories.


Really ? God i must have dreamed playing that FINAL FANTASY!! A title where there was an empire with magitek weapon technology....... An empire who's world conquest was a guise for their search for some magical beings...... interesting magitek empire after magical beings....... hmm where have i seen that before ? Wait was that not the Final Fantasy title where the world was wrecked after an incident ? That sounds awfully familiar with what is going to happen in this game..... Was there not also in said title a group of cities that opposed said Empire ? Nah! Must have been a Dream.

Also was there not another title where a METEOR was summoned ? A meteor that was such a threat that was a major part of the storyline and character development of said title.... nope must have dreamed that final fantasy title too....
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#21 Jun 06 2012 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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Meteor was summoned in Final Fantasy V, VII, and XI. Does that mean XIV is suddenly taking their respective stories? No.

Magitek technology is used throughout all of XIV's raids so far. Is it a nod to VI? Certainly. Is there a giant clown coming to destroy Eorzea's world of balance? Nope.

Is there a nod to other Final Fantasy games? Sure, but I'm not seeing story arcs from other games coming to this one.
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#22 Jun 06 2012 at 8:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Is there a giant clown coming to destroy Eorzea's world of balance?
Depends what your opinion of Yoshida is.

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 10:17pm by lolgaxe
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#23 Jun 06 2012 at 8:20 PM Rating: Default
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Meteor was summoned in Final Fantasy V, VII, and XI. Does that mean XIV is suddenly taking their respective stories? No.

Magitek technology is used throughout all of XIV's raids so far. Is it a nod to VI? Certainly. Is there a giant clown coming to destroy Eorzea's world of balance? Nope.

Is there a nod to other Final Fantasy games? Sure, but I'm not seeing story arcs from other games coming to this one.


Meteor was not used in FFV, nor was it summoned, it was a vehicle and that was as far as it went, you could have made a better point, pointing towards FFIV, in wish the spell meteor was part of the story, on accordance to what it was in FFVII and it is in FFXIV a spell not a vehicle.

Also FFXIV has no raids, what are you talking about ? As far as the giant clown, who knows, have you seen the emperor ? for that meter, mention me who the top honchos are in the empire, for all we know, the emperor can be some clown looking guy, or atleast weird dressed one, we all know SE is very peculiar about how they dress their bad guy's <.<
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#24 Jun 06 2012 at 8:32 PM Rating: Decent
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What is the definition of what a true raid is? Is the size of the group what defines this or something more? I think the biggest point of the new servers, etc was to lessen server problems and allow more massive scaled content. I seriously don't know the answer. I saw this no raid commented on earlier on the TOR forums too.
#25 Jun 06 2012 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't like the fact that some models are taken directly from FFXI, just with higher polycount and higher resolution textures. From before you have Peiste and Goblins and Hydra and Fenrir concept arts looks identical to FFXI. I personally think they should look different, but I suppose there's only so many ways you can make a model like for example the chocobo model.
#26 Jun 06 2012 at 8:47 PM Rating: Default
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swisa wrote:
What exactly is it thats wrong with combat? This is how they plan to leave it.


A better question would be what isn't wrong with battle mechanics and encounter mechanics. The list would be much shorter =/
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#27 Jun 06 2012 at 9:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Solonuke wrote:
I don't like the fact that some models are taken directly from FFXI, just with higher polycount and higher resolution textures. From before you have Peiste and Goblins and Hydra and Fenrir concept arts looks identical to FFXI. I personally think they should look different, but I suppose there's only so many ways you can make a model like for example the chocobo model.


Just be glad they aren't using the monstrocity of Chocobos that exist in FFXIII.
#28 Jun 06 2012 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Viertel wrote:
Solonuke wrote:
I don't like the fact that some models are taken directly from FFXI, just with higher polycount and higher resolution textures. From before you have Peiste and Goblins and Hydra and Fenrir concept arts looks identical to FFXI. I personally think they should look different, but I suppose there's only so many ways you can make a model like for example the chocobo model.


Just be glad they aren't using the monstrocity of Chocobos that exist in FFXIII.


I know there are people who want to ride Chocolina.
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#29 Jun 06 2012 at 10:36 PM Rating: Default
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Khornette wrote:
Viertel wrote:
Solonuke wrote:
I don't like the fact that some models are taken directly from FFXI, just with higher polycount and higher resolution textures. From before you have Peiste and Goblins and Hydra and Fenrir concept arts looks identical to FFXI. I personally think they should look different, but I suppose there's only so many ways you can make a model like for example the chocobo model.


Just be glad they aren't using the monstrocity of Chocobos that exist in FFXIII.


I know there are people who want to ride Chocolina.

Raises hand secretively .
#30 Jun 07 2012 at 1:05 AM Rating: Good
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Dalamud reminds me more of Energy Nede from Star Ocean The Second Story/Second Evolution than meteor.
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#31 Jun 07 2012 at 4:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
swisa wrote:
What exactly is it thats wrong with combat? This is how they plan to leave it.


A better question would be what isn't wrong with battle mechanics and encounter mechanics. The list would be much shorter =/


I will not supply a list but when you are in a party and every monster dies before you can use your second ability how can strategy exist. This is the biggest indicator to me that combat needs fixing.

I will caveat that boss battles are challenging but sometimes I still miss the teamwork of skillchains. Incapacitation and combos exist but are not used by most players. There is benefit to using them but again when monsters die fast there is no time or point in using them regularly.

I enjoy the game. 2.0 pictures look good. My complaint is more a lament for a battle system I loved in another title. And that friends is all I will say.
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#32 Jun 07 2012 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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Admiral Niknar wrote:
Dalamud reminds me more of Energy Nede from Star Ocean The Second Story/Second Evolution than meteor.


Massive nostalgic punch to the face! Now I need to replay that game again for the umpteenth time :(
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#33 Jun 07 2012 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
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Kordain wrote:
Admiral Niknar wrote:
Dalamud reminds me more of Energy Nede from Star Ocean The Second Story/Second Evolution than meteor.


Massive nostalgic punch to the face! Now I need to replay that game again for the umpteenth time :(

Well of course, it's a great game Smiley: nod
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First person view {You can have this.} I'm a galka and wore a subligar all the way to 50. You either learn to deal with it, or learn to enjoy the other party member's screams of agony.

Likibiki wrote:
I wish I could get parties of that standard. Sadly I seem to end up playing with myself all the time.

[ffxisig]81208[/ffxisig]
#34 Jun 08 2012 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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kainsilv wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
swisa wrote:
What exactly is it thats wrong with combat? This is how they plan to leave it.


A better question would be what isn't wrong with battle mechanics and encounter mechanics. The list would be much shorter =/


I will not supply a list but when you are in a party and every monster dies before you can use your second ability how can strategy exist. This is the biggest indicator to me that combat needs fixing.

I will caveat that boss battles are challenging but sometimes I still miss the teamwork of skillchains. Incapacitation and combos exist but are not used by most players. There is benefit to using them but again when monsters die fast there is no time or point in using them regularly.

I enjoy the game. 2.0 pictures look good. My complaint is more a lament for a battle system I loved in another title. And that friends is all I will say.


Somehow, I am not sure how, they managed to make combat feel clunky, slow, and frenetic at the same time for melee. For mages, the lack of spells is a real turn off.

Edited, Jun 8th 2012 11:43am by Olorinus
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#35 Jun 08 2012 at 1:34 PM Rating: Default
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Olorinus wrote:
kainsilv wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
swisa wrote:
What exactly is it thats wrong with combat? This is how they plan to leave it.


A better question would be what isn't wrong with battle mechanics and encounter mechanics. The list would be much shorter =/


I will not supply a list but when you are in a party and every monster dies before you can use your second ability how can strategy exist. This is the biggest indicator to me that combat needs fixing.

I will caveat that boss battles are challenging but sometimes I still miss the teamwork of skillchains. Incapacitation and combos exist but are not used by most players. There is benefit to using them but again when monsters die fast there is no time or point in using them regularly.

I enjoy the game. 2.0 pictures look good. My complaint is more a lament for a battle system I loved in another title. And that friends is all I will say.


Somehow, I am not sure how, they managed to make combat feel clunky, slow, and frenetic at the same time for melee. For mages, the lack of spells is a real turn off.

Edited, Jun 8th 2012 11:43am by Olorinus


You've been saying this for months, mages have a lack of spells. I don't see what you're talking about. I have almost three bars full.
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#36 Jun 08 2012 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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You've been saying this for months, mages have a lack of spells. I don't see what you're talking about. I have almost three bars full.

The wonders of the armoury system and cross-classing.
I count a total of 9 spells for THM (excluding abilities), of which 5 are just stronger versions in the same basic line (e.g. fire->fira->firaga) .
I also wonder what the traits "Enhanced enfeebling magic I + II" are for. Two passive traits just for... sleep? I mean, you may be o.k. with
splitting up enfeebles across classes, but to state that "every mage has a wide diversity of interesting spells at his deposal" is just not true.
#37 Jun 08 2012 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:


You've been saying this for months, mages have a lack of spells. I don't see what you're talking about. I have almost three bars full.


Did you not play before they removed most of the spells from mages?

Slow
Gravity
Siphon TP
Siphon MP
Absorb EVA
Absorb ACC
Absorb DEF
Sacrifice
Silence
Bio
Dia
Blind
scourge
banish
stygian spikes

I might be mistaken about 1 or 2 (since I didn't bother to look up the pitiful few native spells thm has left) but I am pretty sure all those spells were removed from THM. This list doesn't even cover what was removed from CON as well. That of course doesn't include the second tier versions of several of those spells (even though when you say "almost three bars!" you are counting different versions of the same spell)

Nevermind that I logged out having sleep then logged in to find it had been made higher level because they removed most of the rest of the higher level spells... so what I had to look forward to in terms of abilities from leveling was... abilities I used to already have! YAY!

So yeah, going from having all those spells to having Thunder, more Thunder and lots of thunder and fire, more fire and lots of fire, and spells from a different class.... is a pretty big difference in gameplay. But I guess there is some excuse for it like "well they shouldn't have to do more work coming up with unique spells and abilities for new classes!"

And at least 1 or two of the "new" abilities given to THM are pitiful.

Edited, Jun 8th 2012 1:53pm by Olorinus
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#38 Jun 08 2012 at 3:39 PM Rating: Default
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Olorinus wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:


You've been saying this for months, mages have a lack of spells. I don't see what you're talking about. I have almost three bars full.


Did you not play before they removed most of the spells from mages?

Slow
Gravity

Siphon TP
Siphon MP
Absorb EVA
Absorb ACC
Absorb DEF

Sacrifice
Silence
Bio

Dia
Blind

scourge
banish
stygian spikes

I might be mistaken about 1 or 2 (since I didn't bother to look up the pitiful few native spells thm has left) but I am pretty sure all those spells were removed from THM. This list doesn't even cover what was removed from CON as well. That of course doesn't include the second tier versions of several of those spells (even though when you say "almost three bars!" you are counting different versions of the same spell)

Nevermind that I logged out having sleep then logged in to find it had been made higher level because they removed most of the rest of the higher level spells... so what I had to look forward to in terms of abilities from leveling was... abilities I used to already have! YAY!

So yeah, going from having all those spells to having Thunder, more Thunder and lots of thunder and fire, more fire and lots of fire, and spells from a different class.... is a pretty big difference in gameplay. But I guess there is some excuse for it like "well they shouldn't have to do more work coming up with unique spells and abilities for new classes!"

And at least 1 or two of the "new" abilities given to THM are pitiful.



The spells I bolded were either useless or WAY overpowered.

I'm sorry you guys feel this way, but before the changed, an overwhelming amount of those spells were absolutely useless. Conjurer had tier I and tier II nukes, neither of which did very much damage.

THM had only enfeebles, Shock Spikes was way overpowered, and enfeebles were next-to-useless. Ifrit/Ogre were highly resistant and **** near immune to them. A lot of the enfeebling spells you mentioned have become combo effects on other classes, which is good. It's not a spell that has a low chance of landing, it's an additional effect if you perform a combo on a weapon skill.

Fire -> Fira -> Firaga have their uses. They're all area-of-effect nukes. Cost a lot of MP for that reason.
Thunder is meant for single-target nuking.
Blizzard spells are good for binding mobs, getting away to prepare spells from far away.
Stygian Spikes was replaced with Sanguine Rite which is a godsend to staying alive and restoring MP if getting attacked.

The cross class abilities one gets are mostly relevant to the job, they're not just random cross-class abilities stacked onto a job, which is what it sounds like you're making it out to be.

In the case of Black Mage you get access to Archer abilities. This is not a random choice. Most of Archer's abilities are meant to lessen hate.




Edited, Jun 8th 2012 2:43pm by UltKnightGrover
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#39 Jun 08 2012 at 3:48 PM Rating: Default
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On that note, anyone remember Punishing Barbs or Shadowsear? Those two THM spells alone could defeat probably any enemy in the game. The former redirected all of the damage (given to Warrior albeit in nerfed form), and Shadowsear did more damage the lower HP you had (given as an added effect to Burst and the effect was reduced)


Edited, Jun 8th 2012 2:58pm by UltKnightGrover
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#40 Jun 08 2012 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
...an overwhelming amount of those spells were absolutely useless. Conjurer had tier I and tier II nukes, neither of which did very much damage...

Huh? You mean that's why Conjurers were asked to nuke? So everybody could have a laugh?

Quote:
THM had only enfeebles...

Say... you never played THM before 1.21, right? Looks like you never heard of "scourge", "banish", their tier II versions, or "shadowsear".... then, perhaps, does "Drain" ring a bell? Not either? And you mean those ******* useless enfeebles like "Paralyze" or the Nr.1 NM killer "Poison", the DoT+AT/DEF downers "Bio" and "Dia"? Nope? Amnesia? Are you afflicted with brain "Gravity"? Or did some old-school THM kite your head with a well-timed "Bind"? Are you trying to "Emulate" a Troll? I think it's time to "Sacrifice" you, with the option for "Resurrection" once you've "Paradigm Shifted" back into reality and it's time for your "Initiation" as someone who is not obviously "Blind" to reality.

Liking the current simplified THM ******* (Thunder->Thundera->Thundaga, Thunder->Thundera->Thundaga, and hey, sometimes you can go Thunder->Thundera->Thundaga!) is one thing; but denying that there was a huge dumb-down to the job overall is not even stupid. It's just strange.
#41 Jun 08 2012 at 4:12 PM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
...an overwhelming amount of those spells were absolutely useless. Conjurer had tier I and tier II nukes, neither of which did very much damage...

Huh? You mean that's why Conjurers were asked to nuke? So everybody could have a laugh?



Quote:
THM had only enfeebles...

Say... you never played THM before 1.21, right? Looks like you never heard of "scourge", "banish", their tier II versions, or "shadowsear".... then, perhaps, does "Drain" ring a bell? Not either? And you mean those ******* useless enfeebles like "Paralyze" or the Nr.1 NM killer "Poison", the DoT+AT/DEF downers "Bio" and "Dia"? Nope? Amnesia? Are you afflicted with brain "Gravity"? Or did some old-school THM kite your head with a well-timed "Bind"? Are you trying to "Emulate" a Troll? I think it's time to "Sacrifice" you, with the option for "Resurrection" once you've "Paradigm Shifted" back into reality and it's time for your "Initiation" as someone who is not obviously "Blind" to reality.

Liking the current simplified THM ******* (Thunder->Thundera->Thundaga, Thunder->Thundera->Thundaga, and hey, sometimes you can go Thunder->Thundera->Thundaga!) is one thing; but denying that there was a huge dumb-down to the job overall is not even stupid. It's just strange.



Rinsui wrote:
"every mage has a wide diversity of interesting spells at his deposal" is just not true.


I'm not denying anything, you're putting words in my mouth, and you've done it in two posts now. Both of which I quoted. I welcome the job simplification.

I am saying the simplification was done in favor of job balance. THM became essentially a Black Mage that can cross class. Will those enfeebling spells come back in the future? There's a possibility on another class, but the way you guys say it, shows that you don't know what you're talking about at all.

If you cast all nukes by doing Thunder->Thundara->Thundaga and nothing else, you're not nuking correctly or efficiently.
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#42 Jun 08 2012 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm not denying anything, you're putting words in my mouth, and you've done it in two posts now.

And I'll do it as long as you keep telling *********
You said "THM had only enfeebles" -> *********
and "enfeebles were next-to-useless" -> *********

I don't need to put anything in your mouth.
I just have to quote what comes out of it.
And believe me: Quoting ******** is less fun than it may seem.
#43 Jun 08 2012 at 4:25 PM Rating: Default
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Do go on about how "Slow" was the only reason Thaumaturge were marginally useful on Ifrit before Patch 1.20, and that hardly landed.

Edited, Jun 8th 2012 3:25pm by UltKnightGrover
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#44 Jun 08 2012 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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I know this is totally crazy, but if THM wasn't useful on Ifrit, isn't it marginally possible they could have reduced his resistance to enfeebles, even certain ones? As someone who enjoyed the way the class used to play, and never did Ifrit and doesn't give a fig about Ifrit, I would have much rather they retuned the fight rather than ruining the class entirely.

It's fine if you like the simplification but don't pretend that there isn't a serious lack of spells now, especially native spells for a spell caster.

I find it ironic that before the changes, when everyone was whining classes weren't unique enough, I was using MORE native abilities than when I logged in for the "welcome back" campaign. Sad. I miss the class I knew. I loved doing absorbs and then initiation. Was it super effective? No. But I was hopeful that they would adjust the power of the spells (whether weak or too strong) rather than just stripping them all away for some bland generic things and some 10 second abilities on 1 minute cooldowns.

Doing spells in a certain order is not revolutionary or difficult, it just makes the already bland combat/casting more bland and repetitive.

As for melee, I loved pre-auto-attack PUG - heck even post auto-attack with the old abilities was awesome. It was just awkward and boring and slow when I came back. I really miss the old featherfoot, dodge haymaker combos I was pulling off. It was a lot of fun. Now, not so much. Always waiting on TP or a cooldown or both. Blech.

As for "now you can level a whole new class to get the abilities you already had, and MAYBE just MAYBE you'll be allowed to cross class them!" - I just can't even believe this is a suggestion. As if I want to level an entirely new job to get back the spells I already had. If this isn't the epitome of excusing time sinks and lazy development, I don't know what is.

Edited, Jun 8th 2012 4:38pm by Olorinus
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#45 Jun 08 2012 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Matter of disagreement there.

I find spamming spells over and over until they land to be equally boring and inefficient. I don't really care if they add the old spells back on another class, but even then they would need to be retooled to compete with the other classes that got said enfeebles integrated with their weapon skills.

There isn't a lack of spells, and I'm not pretending there is. I'm saying they removed the useless/non-effective/overpowered ones and changed Conjurer to be a healing/support class and Thaumaturge to be a nuking class. And the spells you've complained about losing were given to other classes/jobs for the purpose of game-balance.

Each class/job has two support classes that need leveling as well. To level Thaumaturge without having Pugilist and Archer leveled will cause you to have a lack of actions on your bar. It's not as different as a Gladiator having a lack of hate-holding abilities because they never levelled Marauder.

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#46 Jun 08 2012 at 6:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jobs were simplified. They removed enfeebles my guess is so they add an enfeebling job in the future. Yoshida has mentioned on two occasions now that there will be more abilities added at 2.0 launch although the latest interview made it sound like it's for pvp only.

I agree that jobs are overly simple and if you've done a fight once you've done it a hundred times. I've run ifrit on PLD a million times and i basically rotate the exact same abilities every time. Its not fun and it's not entirely related to job simplification but i think there needs to be some diversity in battle that have us choosing between different ablities and not rotating thw same ones for every single fight.
#47 Jun 08 2012 at 8:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Classes are not supposed to be one role to my understanding. That's the whole point of jobs is it not? Black Mage should be the one role nuker. While the classes are the hybrids. A class shouldn't be as efficient at one particular job in that jobs main role. The gear/abilities should make a class more efficient towards the role they setup for while penalising the roles they didn't setup for. But even if they setup in a nuking build, it should be appropriately weaker in potency in context with a good built black mage.

There are less spells & unless emnity was perfectly tuned to ***** your ***. Of course people will say they don't need the weaker or overpowered tiers. The lower amount of spells wouldn't be such a small rotation fest & interesting if there was a way/mechanic to alter those spells. Job abilities work towards this. But how about an actual UI for modifying spells?

A mechanic to alter potency, mp consumption, range, AoE radius, timed skillchained burst, Conal range, shorten cast times, shorten recast times, etc. If players feel that would make combat to tedious or difficult adjusting on the fly every cast via a UI mechanism. Then allow users to preset parameters per spell pre fight. We then would have to make tactical choices if each parameter had a positive & negative.

Example: Increasing the AoE radius parameter would cover a wider area as you increase it, but the potency would lower appropriately for that increased radius.
#48 Jun 08 2012 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
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While were on the subject of spells. How about a wider variety of spells versus just single target, multiple target, or the standard dot?
Jolt- A thunder spell weaker than the current three that inflicts knockback.
Shock- A thunder spell weaker than most that inflicts decent damage overtime w/ occasional stun effect during the duration of spell.
Spark- A thunder spell that burst from within the monster & inflicts medium AoE dmg to surrounding enemies at each tick for a set duration.
Flatline- A thunder spell trap that is layed on the floor to stun any mobs on area for three seconds.
Enthunder- A thunder sphere casted that players must step into to gain additional thunder damage.
Thunderclap- Two thunder bolts strike each other resulting in a thunderball which inflicts dmg and weakens def of water based mobs.
ElectricSerpent- Two thunder based serpents extend from the casters back acting as electrified whips, has a magic attuned thunder ws w/ appropriate TP.
Powersurge- Pulls electric current from the air to blackstab an enemy, critical damage, super high emnity.
PerfectStorm- A thunder spell not available to cast unless you have current highest emnity. If the mob was trying to kill you before. This spell sealed your doom.
Jitter-A low cost alternate version of Thundara only available if you have little emnity.

Yes, I only listed thunder based spells. That is XIV favorite line of spells, But each element would have it's own signature versions.
#49 Jun 11 2012 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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Just a quick note, they are adding more abilities after they feel they are properly balanced for PVP content.

It is also a fair assumption that they will be adding other classes to fill in the gaps for spell groups. By holding back entire spell groups, they allow for more diverse and functionally useful classes. Red Mage and Dark Knight have already been bounced around in public announcements. That would make up drain abilities, and buffs (en spells?).

They could (and I really would love to see them handle it this way) have a class that specializes in enfeebles, one that specializes in spike spells, one that specializes in weather effects, and a mage class that specializes in non-verbal spells (e.g. Japanese spell scrolls, single use, such as used with 11's ninja, but make it so that they are movement based, and not verbal, allowing for pacify to stop them, but not silence).

That was one problem that 11 suffered from, was that they made the base classes too all encompassing, and caused issues later down the road when they tried to introduce new classes (scholar, pup, and dancer were not initially well received because of their over-lap with other classes).

#50 Jun 11 2012 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:
caused issues later down the road when they tried to introduce new classes (scholar, pup, and dancer were not initially well received because of their over-lap with other classes).


The only problem with Puppetmaster (aside from the fact that the automaton was cuter than everything else in the game, thereby making both Mithra and Tarutaru angry) was that the job itself simply kicked too much ***.

And don't say that I'm biased just because I played PUP, I'm only stating facts.
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#51 Jun 11 2012 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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rfolkker wrote:
They could (and I really would love to see them handle it this way) have a class that specializes in enfeebles, one that specializes in spike spells, one that specializes in weather effects, and a mage class that specializes in non-verbal spells (e.g. Japanese spell scrolls, single use, such as used with 11's ninja, but make it so that they are movement based, and not verbal, allowing for pacify to stop them, but not silence).


I hope they don't go this route and add utsusemi, even if it's something other classes don't have access to. Allowing players to completely nullify damage is what broke XI. That game would and could have been so much more challenging even if they'd made Ni a level 50 spell.

I'm sure half the population would ragequit if they made the change purposely, but I wonder what would happen in that game if they somehow disabled utsusemi: Ni for players using /nin in a patch or something. Would be interesting to see how the players handled the change or if they just all logged out until it was fixed...


Edited, Jun 11th 2012 6:20pm by FilthMcNasty
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