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To play or not to play?Follow

#1 Jun 11 2012 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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So I've played MMO's my whole life, most of the big ones and some f2p as well. Spent roughly 4-5 years on ffxi and then went to WoW and quit for a few years. Just picked up tera a few months ago and stopped playing in order to play diablo 3 and some old ps2 games: KH, KH2, FFX, FFXII. When i originally looked for an MMO i came here first and saw tons of problems and decided on Tera. I came back on here and after pouring through tons of threads I have some questions:

1) FFXI was pretty easy to subscribe to. You went through Playonline. I have read horror stories on the subscription service for ffxiv. Is this still the case? Or can i just set up a credit card for monthly payment like WoW or Tera or any standard MMO?
2)Tried to read about the advanced job system. Seems like a convaluted job/subjob system from ffxi which worked wonderfully. If I want to play a Dragoon, is it very different from lancer? or same thing with SOME new skills? Basically is it really worth it to get an advanced job?
3)The screen tears and AH function and all that probably wont bother me that much if the gameplay is good. But people are complaining about combat. Is it really that bad? And is it like FFXI where you need to party in Dunes to get levels 16-20 or whatever in order to progress? Seems like people are saying that can solo alot so I'm trying to figure out if its a group based system or not.

Any other information you guys think is relevant to help me decide to play or not would be great. I understand 2.0 will be coming out at some point so thats irrelevant. Also I have an alienware MX11 laptop, with... 8GB Dual Channel dual channel DDR3. Rest is standard MX11 stuff. Includes 1GB DDR3 NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 540M <--- straight from the dell website lol. So I dont even know if my laptop can handle it.
#2 Jun 11 2012 at 6:21 PM Rating: Default
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1) SE always has issues selecting an easy way to accept payments. Nothing has changed here.

1) Jobs are similar to their respective classes with some different abilities for the most part. Whether or not it's worth it depends on your preference. If you like playing the main class then you'd probably like the job associated with it. Jobs are basically an extension of the main class.

3) You've played TERA so you know what the best combat system model looks like and after playing that, XIV will be much like pulling teeth. I stopped playing XIV, but I'm sure other people on the forums will point out that it's hard to find a group for many things these days.

Your laptop will handle XIV at medium settings.

I wouldn't recommend playing XIV just yet. It's not as good as nearly any other option you have for an MMO and isn't really expected to get that much better until early next year. Why not just stick with Diablo or TERA? MoP will be out before XIV 2.0 too so at least you have other options to keep you busy until then.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#3 Jun 11 2012 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
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well D3 is fun only because i can pick it up and put it down whenever i want. So if i don't have much time i can play it, and its also free. As for Tera the combat is awesome of course but I got bored. The BAM's although fun, started to feel somewhat recycled the higher the level. And it got to the point where to solo one would take 30-45 minutes, and I was at the whim of finding a group which was pretty hard at times. I like completing things so to have all my BAM quests just sitting there until a group pops up started to bother me. Also, I'm waiting for a friend to catch up to my level. Point of all this is I figured why pay a monthly subscription for a game I'm not playing. For that I'd rather try FFXIV since I had put so much time FXIV seems to pull some things from. As for MoP I've given up on WoW, it's way too easy and it sucks running the same dungeons over and over and over again. Was looking into something like starcraft 2 but it seems you are forced to buy all 3 versions once the other 2 come out so that you get the full story. Not sure if thats worth paying full price for two expansions set for dec 2012.
#4 Jun 11 2012 at 8:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Zoom1223 wrote:
As for Tera the combat is awesome of course but I got bored. The BAM's although fun, started to feel somewhat recycled the higher the level. And it got to the point where to solo one would take 30-45 minutes, and I was at the whim of finding a group which was pretty hard at times. I like completing things so to have all my BAM quests just sitting there until a group pops up started to bother me. Also, I'm waiting for a friend to catch up to my level. Point of all this is I figured why pay a monthly subscription for a game I'm not playing.


You didn't say anything about PvP so I'll assume you rolled on a PvE server. You might try this in the meantime because the GvG can be really fun. Actually, it sounds like you don't have a guild either. With a few people to help you the BAMs go down fairly fast. If it's taking you 30 mins to solo a BAM you're doing it wrong >_>

Anyhow, you asked yourself the question 'Why pay a sub fee for a game you don't play"? Most people who are sticking around XIV ask themselves the same or the answer is because they either want legacy status so they get a deal if the game ever becomes worth it to play or because they don't want to feel like they got left behind.

Stick to D3 imo
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#5 Jun 12 2012 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Actually im level 38 so the BAM's arent as easy as they used to be. Not sure what level you got to. its more like 20-25 but still feels like forever. Secondly I rolled a PVP server, but there is no pvp in the game aside from getting ganked basically. There is GvG but the guild I'm in wasnt doing it and was an "up and coming guild" so despite the 70 ish members whenever i logged on there were only 2-3 making BAM questing a pain in the *** for me personally. Besides, I was playing an archer class and kiting a mob running through the same rotation over and over and over again becomes boring after about 10minutes. Turns into how long I can keep my attention on the game so that I don't hit the wrong button as opposed to skill. There is world PvP where you can declare outlaw but usually people just declared outlaw while I was mid fight with a bam or regular mob. Was rewarding to kill them and have them fail their gank attempt but overall usually resulted in death. Which I'm not complaining about but that isn't exactly what I define PvP as. I was watching some youtube videos of FFXIV and it doesnt seem like its too bad. Then again, they were lv 50 people so who knows.
#6 Jun 13 2012 at 12:20 AM Rating: Default
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Zoom1223 wrote:
Secondly I rolled a PVP server, but there is no pvp in the game aside from getting ganked basically. There is GvG but the guild I'm in wasnt doing it and was an "up and coming guild" so despite the 70 ish members whenever i logged on there were only 2-3 making BAM questing a pain in the *** for me personally.


There is a difference between 'There is no PvP in the game' and 'My guild doesn't participate'. Battlegrounds are on the way soon so larger organized events will be coming around the corner. Until then, get yourself a guild that's more involved! If you can't find one, then you'd have a **** of a time trying to get anything done in XIV the way the population is right now. Sorry if it sounds like I'm out to discourage you from trying it. If you think it looks interesting then by all means go for it, but if you're bored by TERA combat then there's really no hope on that front.


Edited, Jun 13th 2012 2:21am by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#7 Jun 13 2012 at 2:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nah, Filth, he simply got bored of the TERA gameplay. And he`s not the first to get bored; the same
"flaw" was also described in interviews: the combat mechanics are fantastic for the first 50 hours, but
some players mention that they can become tedious, especially when grinding. I guess it`s simply a
metter of personal taste. Let him try out FFXIV, and there`s a good possibility he likes it, even now.
At least for 2-3 months, when 2.0 will hit anyway.

I want to hear his newbie opinion of the state of the game. Nothing more precious than a fresh view.
#8 Jun 13 2012 at 2:42 AM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
I want to hear his newbie opinion of the state of the game. Nothing more precious than a fresh view.


I agree, but you have to admit that he'd probably get a better perspective(both in TERA and XIV). I'm sure people burn out on having to actually press a button to block or dodge instead of the mechanic roll a die for it or growing bored of repetition(a fault of any MMO), but from what he stated his problems are from not seeking out what he's missing.

If you do try it out Zoom, please come back and share your opinion.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#9 Jun 13 2012 at 7:14 AM Rating: Decent
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its basically whats rinsui said. Everything starts to feel recycled, but when its the combat it just doesnt keep me hooked. It's wierd because in ffxi i played rng and the combat was obviously pretty simple. Build tp, sharpshot -> WS -> barrage -> WS rinse repeat (depending on tank of course). But something about skillchaining was fun. In WoW I played a rogue and yeah same thing, run through the rotation, build combo points use skill, but what got boring was doing the same dungeons/raids over and over and over again. PvP was fun, and the few legit fights I had in tera were fun, but were few and far between. Even thought FFXI didnt really have PvP, the PvE was awesome. I forget what FFXI had for PvP but it wasn't that bad alll things considered. In any case, Im back on D3 as they just added the real money auction house. Set up a paypal account and all that so if i make some money off it ill be seeing you guys on ffxiv
#10 Jun 13 2012 at 7:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Zoom1223 wrote:

1) FFXI was pretty easy to subscribe to. You went through Playonline. I have read horror stories on the subscription service for ffxiv. Is this still the case? Or can i just set up a credit card for monthly payment like WoW or Tera or any standard MMO?


It's not terrible but is annoying to have to go through a separate website to sign up.

Zoom1223 wrote:

2)Tried to read about the advanced job system. Seems like a convaluted job/subjob system from ffxi which worked wonderfully. If I want to play a Dragoon, is it very different from lancer? or same thing with SOME new skills? Basically is it really worth it to get an advanced job?


It's in some ways less ridged and in other more ridged that FFXI. As a job, you get access to 2 other jobs skills, while as a class you can access them all (some skills are ONLY for certain job/classes)

It's miles improved over the previous system and encourages diverse roles in parties, which is awesome.

Zoom1223 wrote:

3)The screen tears and AH function and all that probably wont bother me that much if the gameplay is good. But people are complaining about combat. Is it really that bad? And is it like FFXI where you need to party in Dunes to get levels 16-20 or whatever in order to progress? Seems like people are saying that can solo alot so I'm trying to figure out if its a group based system or not.


People are complaining about combat? I just returned since Jan. and the combat is VASTLY improved, and I hit 50 when the only way to do that was leves. Now parties are common during peak time (got one very day this week, went 32-40 drg) and leves are still good for solo leveling. EXP Chains, and Links now provide incentive for killing many mobs your level in quick succession, keeping parties interesting an not the boring stationary parties of FFXI.

It's easy to solo or party to level cap, and there's tons of things to do. If the game launched in its current state, everyone would still be playing it.

Edited, Jun 13th 2012 9:42am by Louiscool
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#11 Jun 13 2012 at 10:32 AM Rating: Decent
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thats good to hear. I definitely want to give it a shot
#12 Jun 13 2012 at 11:06 AM Rating: Default
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I think Tera probably would get tedious after 100s of hrs of combat. My favorite action rpg combat is Dark Souls. Even then I play in short bursts. I think maybe the issue could be third person free target mechanics without interesting landscape & cover mechanics associated with third person shooters.

Take Red Dead Redemption for instance. It gets really repetetive when you are out in the open pvping unless you're on a mount. I find it gets much more interesting in third person free target combat when the environments factor in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEtTG70_YK4&feature=related

Are there pvp matches with cover mechanics or the environments factoring into gameplay in PvP?
#13 Jun 13 2012 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I would personally recommend waiting for 2.0 before trying FFXIV. The reason I say this is just the way the developers have handled the changes they've made. It's almost kind of a schizophrenic way of doing things. In one hand(patch) they would give you all this cool abilities or options then in the next hand they'd pop you in the mouth and then take it all away. So I reflect on all the things I liked that no longer exist, and how slow it all seems now, and it's left me with a bit of resentment. I'm not sure how a new player would perceive the current game, but I have a feeling it's all going to change come 2.0 and the things you've grown to appreciate won't be there any more.


For me the battle system is WAY too slow. Especially compared to something like D3, it's night and day. Imagine in D3 if you had to hit a monster 5 times (with a 4 second wait period between hits) before you could launch one lightning ball(demon hunter). Hopefully that changes some with 2.0. Also right now if you do start, find a linkshell because that's the only way you're going to get much value out of the group driven content. Not to mention I think the social aspect of getting together on voice chat and joking around while doing some of the most mundane crap made it 10x better.
#14 Jun 13 2012 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
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All of these games are repetitive. If you're playing an MMO you just can't escape that, but based on what he likes and doesn't like(which are a lot the same) I think he's gonna be one of those players who ends up jumping around from game to game. Give XIV a shot, but I'm almost certain you won't like it assuming your gripes with other games are honest.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#15 Jun 13 2012 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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true all MMO's are repetitive but some hide it better than others. For example, something about D3 keeps me playing the same story and acts over and over again at a higher difficulty. Im about to finish nightmare mode and I cant wait to go to ****, and then inferno. Probably because it gets more and more challenging. With Tera it didnt seem like it was more and more challenging, just more health and higher attack rating. As for the d3 comparison VG1 in D3 that would really blow, but in something like FFXI that was standard, it was to be expected of the MMO to auto attack to build tp, use a couple abilities, and then weapon skill. And i enjoyed it. I really enjoyed nin tanking on 11. I think its all about the presentation. I dont usually jump games, just recently I have because nothing has pulled me in the way FFXI had and I'm trying to give the games the benefit of the doubt and play them for a while. D3 will stay for sure since now I can make real money off it but I really enjoy MMO's or games with an online component because I get the most out of my money. I have a fiance so I'm not looking for a huge community of friends and stuff, but it's nice to log on and have a linkshell there with people ot talk to and get things done with.
#16 Jun 13 2012 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
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and sandpark as for your pvp questions the environment doesnt factor in AS much. At this point its more about catching someone off guard and getting the jump on them. The PvP gets fun when you get a few people, stand in a town, and take turns dueling each other. Other than that its usually a gank fest until they add battlegrounds
#17 Jun 13 2012 at 4:51 PM Rating: Default
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Just saying your perspective is a little skewed. You didn't cap so you never got to challenge the higher level instances or hardmodes. You don't have a guild with active players so you are missing out on the group elements. Your circumstances keep you from even being able to experience a lot of things. Being that you're jumping into XIV so late in the game, you're going to experience a lot of the same so I just wanted to make you aware of that.

You might check out the server forums here if they are alive and see if you can get connected with other players who have joined up recently. Maybe you will be able to link up with a good group and catch up fast enough to be able to participate.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#18 Jun 14 2012 at 8:55 AM Rating: Decent
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those are all good points. I guess I never had any problems with linkshells on XI. I even had my own at one point and we were working our way up to that manticore God, forget his name. We had killed Genbu etc., but then i had to quit the game and when I came back everyone was gone. Ended rolling on a new server and that was that. Any suggestions on a good server to jump on? I'd like to be at the level cap and have a decent understanding of the fundamentals of the game before 2.0 because I feel like they wont overhaul the core components
#19 Jun 14 2012 at 11:43 AM Rating: Default
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Zoom1223 wrote:
Any suggestions on a good server to jump on? I'd like to be at the level cap and have a decent understanding of the fundamentals of the game before 2.0 because I feel like they wont overhaul the core components.


The best server to jump on is one you can find a LS willing to take you in and help you progress with really. Try and find an LS that sounds like they're active and helpful. The thing that worries me about starting now is that you end up on an established server. People have a two year head start on you and that puts you at a big disadvantage.

When 2.0 comes, none of the new players are going to want to roll on a server with old players. Most of the established players already have all their jobs leveled so they are much less likely to group with you. They have loads of gil so the prices for everything are much higher. I would get comfortable with the fact that the amount of people you see when you login today will be the same or less than what you see after 2.0 is released. No one will join old servers and people on old servers will quit(at least temporarily) and roll a new character to join the wave of new players.

I honestly think they should have stuck to their guns on the 'rebuild and reboot' idea. All of the old players will be upset that they wasted their time making sure they had a headstart over 2.0 bandwagoneers. All the new players will be upset when eventually they are forced to merge servers and everyone loses =/
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#20 Jun 14 2012 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

When 2.0 comes, none of the new players are going to want to roll on a server with old players. Most of the established players already have all their jobs leveled so they are much less likely to group with you. They have loads of gil so the prices for everything are much higher. I would get comfortable with the fact that the amount of people you see when you login today will be the same or less than what you see after 2.0 is released. No one will join old servers and people on old servers will quit(at least temporarily) and roll a new character to join the wave of new players.

I honestly think they should have stuck to their guns on the 'rebuild and reboot' idea. All of the old players will be upset that they wasted their time making sure they had a headstart over 2.0 bandwagoneers. All the new players will be upset when eventually they are forced to merge servers and everyone loses =/


Yeah or like... we'll all just change servers. There's always that option. Who the **** is going to delete their character from the last 2 years? Also, I like your faith in the potential future playerbase to do ANY research at all, and make such decisions.

Then there's always those server mergers. You really took that post on the official forums about new servers to heart, huh?
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#21 Jun 14 2012 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Haha well in any case. It can't be any worse than trying to play any other established MMO. Tera's economy is completely unstable and crafting is relatively useless. Mats were selling for crap and there was no incentive to craft at all. So having high prices on FFXIV doesnt really bother me. There have always been ways to farm gold in FF, I remember farming beastmen's blood as low as lv 24-30 in FFXI. I'm sure it wont be an issue.
#22 Jun 14 2012 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Louis is your server a decent one to play one?
#23 Jun 14 2012 at 12:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
Yeah or like... we'll all just change servers. There's always that option.

If you're suggesting that old players will be allowed to transfer to 'new player' servers then it defeats the point. IIRC Yoshi said that new players will have their own servers, but be allowed to join established servers if they wanted.

Louiscool wrote:
Who the **** is going to delete their character from the last 2 years?

Thanks for stressing my point for me.

Louiscool wrote:
Also, I like your faith in the potential future playerbase to do ANY research at all, and make such decisions.

It's common sense. It doesn't even really require any research or decision making to conclude that new players will want to join new servers where there are more new players to group with, sell your materials and crafts to, ect.

Zoom1223 wrote:
There have always been ways to farm gold in FF, I remember farming beastmen's blood as low as lv 24-30 in FFXI.

If there were some sort of award for brainwashing, SE would win it. Even if they didn't win it, they'd somehow make you believe they did.




Edited, Jun 14th 2012 2:32pm by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#24 Jun 14 2012 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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So do you basically go around on forums and push people away from games that didnt work for you? I don't see how I'm being brainwashed because I found ways to farm gold on FFXI and that im sure there wont be an issue getting gold on FFXIV. Thats an integral part of any MMO as is the economy, so it doesnt matter what I play, I need to farm gold. Regardless of the server or the level of the general population of people there.
#25 Jun 14 2012 at 1:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Louis is your server a decent one to play one?


I just returned and was able to get parties and groups pretty consitently since Saturday, leveled Drg 30-40 in parties. It's not bad, but it's hard to tell if it's better or worse than other servers because I only know my own :D

Quote:
If you're suggesting that old players will be allowed to transfer to 'new player' servers then it defeats the point. IIRC Yoshi said that new players will have their own servers, but be allowed to join established servers if they wanted.


WHEN they add paid server changes, they would never block you from joining "new" servers.

I just think the doom and gloom talk is premature. The current population *should* be in the minority if this game is to survive. With that knowledge, I don't see how a few hundred players being at an advantage would ruin the game, much like Japan having a year head start in FFXI didn't ruin the game.

Furthermore, SE would really not want to scorn the legacy players. I don't see anything wrong with having fresh servers and I know I will make a character on one of them just for fun, but I also don't think it will be the issue it's perceived to be.
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#26 Jun 14 2012 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
WHEN they add paid server changes, they would never block you from joining "new" servers.

I just think the doom and gloom talk is premature. The current population *should* be in the minority if this game is to survive. With that knowledge, I don't see how a few hundred players being at an advantage would ruin the game, much like Japan having a year head start in FFXI didn't ruin the game.

Furthermore, SE would really not want to scorn the legacy players. I don't see anything wrong with having fresh servers and I know I will make a character on one of them just for fun, but I also don't think it will be the issue it's perceived to be.


I think the idea is to have a few servers that grow their economies organically from nothing, so allowing people from an inflated economy with rank 50 in every class to show up and take over would ruin that progress. Even some veteran players would find a fresh start server appealing, and I'm sure some will make new characters there. Judging from the pricing scheme, it looks to me like you'll be encouraged to make characters on different servers, so there may be differently themed ones to look forward to.
#27 Jun 14 2012 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriously the economy on this game is dramatically messed up, if you are a new player starting at level 1. Will it be a serous problem come 2.0 ? Probably, who knows, SE does have this bad track record.....
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#28 Jun 14 2012 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
WHEN they add paid server changes, they would never block you from joining "new" servers.


Your statement is speculative at best. It's not a matter of when, it's a matter of if.

Louiscool wrote:
I just think the doom and gloom talk is premature. The current population *should* be in the minority if this game is to survive.


It's not doom and gloom Louis. The argument for keeping your progress is nearly identical to the argument for not rolling on an established server. To paraphrase:

Why would anyone give up 2 years of progress? Fair enough, but at the same time..
Why would anyone want to start 2 years behind?

Louiscool wrote:
With that knowledge, I don't see how a few hundred players being at an advantage would ruin the game, much like Japan having a year head start in FFXI didn't ruin the game.

I never said it would ruin the game. I think you're imposing whatever you read in the official forums over my opinion here.

The headstarts for XI and XIV aren't really comparable in my opinion. In XI, it was regional. You added a lot of new players who were all from the same region. There wasn't really an issue with level distribution because ALL NA players who started on release here had people to group with. XI had more jobs to play on launch and was also much more tedious to level so there was a higher chance you could find someone in your level range. Not to mention the gap is almost 3 times as big this time around...

Louiscool wrote:
Furthermore, SE would really not want to scorn the legacy players. I don't see anything wrong with having fresh servers and I know I will make a character on one of them just for fun, but I also don't think it will be the issue it's perceived to be.


SE doesn't really have a say in the matter. People who refuse to play on servers with established players just won't play. There are a lot of people who gave up hope on XIV realizing that they didn't want to be so far behind when(read: if) it becomes good enough for them to play. Keeping new players on new servers is what will keep it from becoming an issue, which is the whole point.



____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#29 Jun 14 2012 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
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its funny because people are starting threads on a daily basis about coming back to the game after playing it for 1 week and quitting it. And 2.0 isnt even out yet. I don't see how people are going to have a problem playing a game thats been out for 2 years. WoW gets new subscriptions all the time. As do many other games that have been out for more than 2 years. The big point is that FFXIV offers a different type of MMO then the ones most people are used to. I think that alone is enough appeal for people to come back, not to mention the fact that it will be on a console which opens up more potential for subscriptions.
#30 Jun 14 2012 at 2:40 PM Rating: Default
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Zoom1223 wrote:
So do you basically go around on forums and push people away from games that didnt work for you?


I didn't push you away from XIV. I suggested you wait and find a fresh start when 2.0 comes. If you look around with your eyes open, there is plenty of evidence here not just from me that it isn't worth it at the moment. To be fair, this game didn't work for 90% of the people who bought it.

Perspective. Tera is 6 weeks into it's NA launch. Are you trying to say that XI's economy was stable 6 weeks after NA launch? At least make an accurate comparison. You're saying PvP in Tera is just a gankfest, but you never participated outside of being ganked. It's too easy, but I've never done hardmodes. So on. It's like saying a movie sucked, but you only saw the trailer.

Economic impact aside, it's not going to be as easy for you to find groups to participate(something you didn't do in Tera either) unless you have players around you with a reasonably close level distribution. No better time to start than at the beginning and 2.0 is expected to be just that.

Zoom1223 wrote:
Its funny because people are starting threads on a daily basis about coming back to the game after playing it for 1 week and quitting it. And 2.0 isnt even out yet.

Two words, 8 syllables: Legacy campaign.

The reasoning probably goes something like this..

"I hate it, but if I subscribe now and it gets good in 6 months then I only have to play for 14 months before I start saving money if I'd just subscribed at regular price after I found whether or not I liked it."

Yeah, I don't get it either.



Edited, Jun 14th 2012 4:51pm by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#31 Jun 14 2012 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Zoom1223 wrote:
its funny because people are starting threads on a daily basis about coming back to the game after playing it for 1 week and quitting it. And 2.0 isnt even out yet. I don't see how people are going to have a problem playing a game thats been out for 2 years. WoW gets new subscriptions all the time. As do many other games that have been out for more than 2 years. The big point is that FFXIV offers a different type of MMO then the ones most people are used to. I think that alone is enough appeal for people to come back, not to mention the fact that it will be on a console which opens up more potential for subscriptions.


Oh i can answer that one for You! The difference between warcraft and FFXIV is low level content & diversity, in wow as you progress thru quest you get gear, to be able to keep up with the difficulty of current and upcoming quest, you can also do PVP once you hit level 10 earn points and buy gear, you can dungeons, you can grind, you can do whatever you want with as little outside help as humanly possible( Wish is good i mean the cap level is 85, you are not gonna find hundreds of level ones to group with 10 years after release)

In FFXIV at level 1 you get 8 leves, for one day, then after that you better get your *** to grinding monsters, or do 2 quests in uldah (Wish is all there is to do at lvl 1-10) leves dont give gear, and most quest dont either, and you have to rely on the bazaar to get your items, wish can be quite expensive if you are lucky to find an item of low level, i hit lvl 6 yesterday, made 2k gil from leves and quest, went to upgrade some gear, bang 5-10k a piece....... so basically by level 20 i will be able to buy level 5 gear for my level 20 character, for level 20 gear cost way more than that.

So for a new player with no outside help..... Is a daunting task.

P.S: Who wants to give me a million gil ?
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#32 Jun 14 2012 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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where did i say i didnt participate in groups? I had done each instance several times that were available to me. The ONLY other pvp available is guild vs guild. Which if you do a little research has its problems because weak guilds would camp out near a town and run in once they start losing. What I was trying to say is despite Tera's crappy economy I made it to lv 39 without any problems. So throw a crappy economy on any video game and that shouldnt be a deterrent to try or a reason to quit an MMO. Because if thats how you feel then you need a new genre. And no, I didn't do hardmodes because they weren't available unless you were lv 60. The game couldnt hold my interest that far. But if they are anything like a heroic mode dungeon in WoW (as far as the scaled difficulty) then it won't change anything for me. If we're going to sit here and compare MMO's then there isnt a single MMO that has launched with a stable economy. And that has never been a problem for me. And again with Tera groups they had a LFG chat option, so you arent forced to be in a guild to complete anything really aside for GvG pvp. Most of the BAM and instance quests I did were with people in the same area who happened to be on the same quest or close to it. So while I was completing soloable quests I was LFG for BAM's. In any case, someone said in this thread that you can Solo most of the content as is. And I am perfectly ok with that if I can't find a party.
#33 Jun 14 2012 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
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If crafting sucked and was worthless in your opinion, just out of curiousity; what exactly was it that was 'hard' about Tera's economy? You get gear from quests and instances and because you realized that crafting was worthless, you wouldn't have spent money there. You made it sound like the odds were against you getting levels because of it. You didn't even reach 40 which is when you plunk down gold on a mount so I'm not certain why exactly you'd complain about this...

Anyhow, I'm not saying you're anti-social but you mentioned on several occasions that you couldn't find help with BAMs and that your guild didn't participate in GvG because they were 'up and coming'. I get that you didn't like Tera, I really do. Your reasons crossover multiple MMOs including XIV which is what I don't get.


Edited, Jun 14th 2012 5:04pm by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#34 Jun 14 2012 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I dont think I ever said Tera's economy was hard. I was comparing Tera's economy to that of any other starting MMO because you were saying the economy in FFXIV is going to cause me problems if i join a server now with established players with tons of money and high prices. I was trying to compare how the economy DIDN'T effect me in tera, despite having a useless crafting system. If anything, nothing about what I had played in Tera was hard, aside form Soloing the BAM quests at my level. In which case it wasnt really hard, it was more tedius than anything else especially when the game is basically forcing your hand to group. If you played Tera you would know that originally you kill the same BAM once, maybe twice for a quest. As you level up though the quest becomes kill this BAM 5-7 times or collect X item from this BAM and you have to get 3 of them and it isn't 100% drop. Again, tedious. Not to mention the crafting runes needed to make better equip drop from the BAM's so if you do choose to craft simply to level the profession you either A) buy the runes, or B) farm BAMs. Solo will take tons of time but the drops are all yours. In a party you may not get a single rune. As for a mount i had the collector's edition which I believe is one of the fastest mounts in the game. I spent more money ******** around with making + 5-6 equipment than actually buying things off the AH. You are absolutely right that my reasons cross over several MMO's but the difference is the presentation, story, combat mechanics, community, etc that can make a problem in Game A easily discarded in Game B. Especially since I usually enjoy FF games.
#35 Jun 14 2012 at 7:15 PM Rating: Default
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Zoom1223 wrote:
I dont think I ever said Tera's economy was hard. I was comparing Tera's economy to that of any other starting MMO


You said that despite a crappy economy you were still able to level up to 39. That makes it seem like you overcame some odds that were against you or something. You also didn't compare the starting economy for both games because if you'd been in XI for launch you'd know the server economy was far from stable.

Anyway, I wasn't really stressing the economy thing. It's something that will affect you later on, but before you get there you have to deal with a small pool of players to group and grind with. That's the main point for me telling you to wait because should 2.0 jump off, you'd be getting in with the wave of new players on a new server. Everyone would be fairly close in levels and there would be a lot more opportunity to participate in events.

Zoom1223 wrote:
You are absolutely right that my reasons cross over several MMO's but the difference is the presentation, story, combat mechanics, community, etc that can make a problem in Game A easily discarded in Game B. Especially since I usually enjoy FF games.

You could have cleared this up a long time ago by just coming out and saying you were a FF fanboy...
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#36 Jun 14 2012 at 8:09 PM Rating: Good
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fanboy has too much of a negative connotation in my eyes. WoW "fanboys" will usually defend blizzard and the game to no end despite how badly they are getting screwed over, as well as some other stereotypes like being 12 yr old kids. By no means am I defending square by trying out FFXIV. I just know that I have enjoyed almost every FF game, although the newer ones I'm nowhere near as happy with. And FFXI was the one MMO that I had spent the most time on and in reality this is the closest thing to it. I understand there are tons of differences between the two games but as I was looking at some of the gameplay footage on youtube i was reminded of the zone right outside windhurst where you first level in FFXI ( i think the zone in FFXIV that I saw which resembled this was somewhere in uldah or something like that). And then one of the starting cities looked like jeuno and another looked like bastok. The jobs/classes in this game seem very similar to the ones from XI. It seems like the combat is different but still, point being this game could be much better than FFXI and I think getting a headstart and grinding it out before patch 2.0 will be more rewarding to me when they finally get their **** together.
#37 Jun 14 2012 at 8:15 PM Rating: Good
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And for someone who seems to know alot about FFXIV and TERA you never mentioned how far you got level wise in either game. I still don't know if you even played TERA or not. And I have no idea if you even play FFXIV or if you're one of the ones who quit along with that 90% statistic you listed earlier.
#38 Jun 14 2012 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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one more thing, where is it 10$ to buy the game? Looked on retail stores and on the SE website. Seems like the going promotional rate on SE is 14.99?

Edited, Jun 14th 2012 10:21pm by Zoom1223
#39 Jun 14 2012 at 10:27 PM Rating: Default
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Zoom1223 wrote:
fanboy has too much of a negative connotation in my eyes. WoW "fanboys" will usually defend blizzard and the game to no end despite how badly they are getting screwed over, as well as some other stereotypes like being 12 yr old kids. By no means am I defending square by trying out FFXIV.


Fanboy has nothing to do with maturity. It's just someone who thinks more highly of whatever they're a fan of than anything else. You just said that you are willing to overlook the core elements of one game and not another, simply because you're a fan of one of the games. It's not meant as a knock really. You're biased and it blocks you being able to make an objective comparison. If anything, it makes you look better because it clears up some of the statements you've made.

People who defend something despite that something being indefensible or not needing a defense are 'white knights'. There's a small difference, but a difference none the less. Anyway, I was mainly trying to figure out why all the things you didn't like about one game were ok for the other. It didn't make any sense until you pointed out your bias and I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. Makes perfect sense now seeing the XI nostalgia talk.

Zoom1223 wrote:
And for someone who seems to know alot about FFXIV and TERA you never mentioned how far you got level wise in either game.

11 level 99 jobs in XI with a relic and 5 empyreans, all classes but 48 hunter are capped in WoW, a 60 warrior and 48 lancer in Tera with everything else but mystic above 20, and a 43 marauder with a few 20ish classes in XIV. I'm not really one of the 90% who purchased and quit because I didn't actually pay for the game. I was given a pass, but I was in alpha testing back in April 2010 so I had a headstart :P

It's $13 on Amazon right now, but when I checked it a few weeks ago it was going for $10. The point was that it's not a huge loss if you decide you don't like it. You're better off than the people who dropped $80 on the CE anyway.

Edited, Jun 15th 2012 12:29am by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#40 Jun 15 2012 at 5:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Filth, how does this mean "Speculative at Best" to you:


GE: We’ve been told that with 2.0 you will be able to change genders, but can you change names? Also, will players be able to change servers at 2.0 launch?

Yoshida: As for changing names, we are working on whether it is technically possible to do that. We understand that this is a name you will be with for a long time, and want a name that fits, so we are going to do everything possible to try to do this. As for moving world servers, at launch we will be opening new servers, including more recommended servers, so we hope to be able to allow for such transfers at launch.

GE: How about server transfers after launch? Any plans?

Yoshida: That’s definitely something we are going to want to implement after launch.



Edited, Jun 15th 2012 7:36am by Louiscool
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#41 Jun 15 2012 at 6:37 AM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
Filth, how does this mean "Speculative at Best" to you:


GE: We’ve been told that with 2.0 you will be able to change genders, but can you change names? Also, will players be able to change servers at 2.0 launch?

Yoshida: As for changing names, we are working on whether it is technically possible to do that. We understand that this is a name you will be with for a long time, and want a name that fits, so we are going to do everything possible to try to do this. As for moving world servers, at launch we will be opening new servers, including more recommended servers, so we hope to be able to allow for such transfers at launch.

GE: How about server transfers after launch? Any plans?

Yoshida: That’s definitely something we are going to want to implement after launch.

There was never any doubt that they would allow server transfers as they have already done this in the past; only doubt that they will allow server transfers from the old servers to those specified for new players. Try again?
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#42 Jun 15 2012 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Where was anything close to what you're suggesting mentioned or hinted at anywhere? You ask "will allow server transfers from the old servers to those specified for new players?"

Do you have ANY proof in the slightest that these "new servers" will be some weird quarantine zone for new players? Did anyone on the dev team ever mention they wanted to segment to population of new and old players?

The closest thing to this is a recommended Europe server because of the lag they are experiencing. Other than that, you are doom and gloom on ideas you thought up while you troll the forum of a game you don't play.

/this conversation
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#43 Jun 15 2012 at 7:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Zoom1223 wrote:
So do you basically go around on forums and push people away from games that didnt work for you?


No, Filth stopped playing quite some time ago, doesn't want to come back, and is only here to tell other people that the game sucks... over and over again. Does that sound like pushing people away from FFXIV?

Noooo!! Course not!!!
#44 Jun 15 2012 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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Wait wait wait... You're giving potential new player advice and then i see:

Quote:
and a 43 marauder with a few 20ish classes in XIV. I'm not really one of the 90% who purchased and quit because I didn't actually pay for the game. I was given a pass, but I was in alpha testing back in April 2010 so I had a headstart :P


THIS is the experience that you are using to pool together your "knowledge" base?

Using your own words here..

Quote:
Just saying your perspective is a little skewed. You didn't cap so you never got to challenge the higher level instances or hardmodes.


43 Mrd, (which takes 1 week, solo), a few 20s (all of which can be soloed in about an hour) and you don't even own the game, just used a guest pass and played Alpha!? Alpha, where there were 8 mobs to kill in the world and the game crashed hourly.

Quote:
I stopped playing XIV, but I'm sure other people on the forums will point out that it's hard to find a group for many things these days.


How would you even know this? Getting groups daily for every type of quest and mission.

Quote:
I wouldn't recommend playing XIV just yet. It's not as good as nearly any other option you have for an MMO and isn't really expected to get that much better until early next year.


Speculative at best. Seeing as you didn't even play when they had auto attack.

Quote:
you'd have a **** of a time trying to get anything done in XIV the way the population is right now.


Where's your evidence for this?

Quote:
If you look around with your eyes open, there is plenty of evidence here not just from me that it isn't worth it at the moment. To be fair, this game didn't work for 90% of the people who bought it.


Where's the evidence!? Plenty of it, but nowhere to be found. 90% of the people who bought it plays as much as you did. So you're right, it didn't work, 2 years ago.

I'm not white knighting here, I'm just saying that you shouldn't speak with authority on subject you have no experience with, just because you read something on a forum. Listening to the vocal minority is never the way to go.
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#45 Jun 15 2012 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Well as soon as things settle down for me I'll be picking up the game. So thank you for all the responses. I have one more question though, I loved playing ranger, ninja, and thf in FFXI. I saw that archer here gets BRD, which is not what I want at all considering how brd was in XI. Does BRD do the damage a archer does only they have access to songs or what?
#46 Jun 15 2012 at 8:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Sort of. It's definitely not your FFXI Bard.

Bard gets to use all archer abilities and IS archer, but they play a bit ore support because they are also playing songs, which cuts into DPS time. Also, some songs sacrifice your own dmg to boost your party.

For example, the Paeon of War is 1000 TP to grant the party TP Regain. It's not bad, but if you want a thf-like class, Pug and Lnc are the way to go. They are all about positioning to land critical attacks, and have sneak attack (Blind Eye)


EDIT:

Though, for soloing, Bard is great and the only other Discipline of War that gets to use Cure and Raise, next to Paladin.

Edited, Jun 15th 2012 10:17am by Louiscool
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#47 Jun 15 2012 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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interesting. Hows warrior? Biggest issue I have with lancer is that IMO from the video's i have seen on youtube, almost all of them were dragoon lol. Don't see much with Warrior or monk though.

Edited, Jun 15th 2012 2:54pm by Zoom1223
#48 Jun 15 2012 at 12:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Warrior is.... insane.

Its one of the best tanks while still dealing top-tier damage. My friend is War and while we were duoing beastmen strongholds (Level 50-55 enemies) he was unkillable while I sung him some songs, cured a bit, and dealth dmg.

I played last night with 3 other War and me as 43 Drg in a stronghold just to get materia and free exp, and they were just insane, aoeing like crazy, no downtime (except when I died to a bad aoe)

They look like how a tank should be, instead of Pld which is pure Defense, which isn't as needed in this game right now in the lack of super hard content.
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#49 Jun 15 2012 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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might give that a shot. how does materia work?
#50 Jun 15 2012 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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Zoom1223 wrote:
interesting. Hows warrior? Biggest issue I have with lancer is that IMO from the video's i have seen on youtube, almost all of them were dragoon lol. Don't see much with Warrior or monk though.

Edited, Jun 15th 2012 2:54pm by Zoom1223


From all notes and notices, it looks like Classes will branch off into more than one jobs. How they do so isn't exactly ironed out. My guess is a straight branching paths from class to Job. This means Lancer will likely branch off into another class besides Dragoon (The more I think about it, the more I think it's Templar).

Warrior isn't as godly ruling as people might state. There have been more than enough successful speed-runs done with Paladins as main tanks, and Warrior's damage as a tank does drop off compared to a full on non-tanking Warrior. It's just a matter of asking the people who actually do the runs as the jobs.


Zoom1223 wrote:
might give that a shot. how does materia work?



Get meteria either off auction house or by covering a piece of gear you've played with long enough (Spiritbond meter full) to Meteria. (Must visit an NPC first, destroys the original piece of gear.)

After which, a separate spirit bonded weapon or piece of equipment can have meterial melded into it to add additional stats.

Prerequisites to doing it yourself:
Have done the (brief) quest to be able to meld meteria to items.
Have the corresponding craft of the gear at appropriate level.
Have the appropriate meteria for the gear you're trying to meld into.
Have the appropriate catalyst (small consumable item.)

You can meld multiple times, but each meld increases the chance of failure. Failure breaks all Meteria AND the Weapon. So it's a high risk, high reward system that benefits lucky crafters the most.


Edited, Jun 15th 2012 3:21pm by Hyrist
#51 Jun 15 2012 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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Just by using equipment and gaining exp, the bond grows until you can turn it into materia that attaches to gear for stat boosts. Different items become different materia.

It's a pretty good system though the best gear comes from double materias, which have a high risk of breaking the item. Still, allows for customization of your gear which is nice.
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