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Contemplating FFXIVFollow

#1 Jun 14 2012 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
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Hi all, I've been seriously thinking of delving into FFXIV lately, I just had some questions. I read someone else's topic "To play or not to Play," but my reasoning behind joining FFXIV is different enough that I figured it warranted a new topic.

First of all, my only experience with MMOs so far have been FFXI -love of my life- played from ps2 release til somewhere around level cap 90 (is also why I already have a zam account). The reason I quit was mainly because I started to work full-time for the first time in my life, and secondly because all my long-time friends had already quit and moved on elsewhere.

My only other MMO experience has been Tera. I have to say, compared to FFXI, Tera is the Dane Cook of MMOs. The combat system is polished, as I'm sure some of you have heard, but that's all there is to it. Its a vapid chain of non-stop questing til level cap (took me maybe 20 days to reach cap on my archer) and then the game falls flat on its face. Both endgame and crafting are a joke atm; it seems nothing BUT the combat system received any attention from developers. But my only real reason for quitting Tera is simple: the horrible community.

Non-stop trolling 24/7 in server-wide chat. Everything from US politics to how good GW2 will be. If you chose to be either an archer or a berserker, you'd better have a nice guild because you'll be getting the insta-boot while trying to run endgame dungeons, either for greed (the only tank class shares loot drops with berserker) or because people underestimate a job's viability (archer had to be buffed sometime before the game was released in the US). Out of the three guilds I joined during my playtime, two fell apart, and the one large one had no communication in it except for when people were trying to run an instance without the risk being insta-kicked, or to avoid the hour-long queue. Dungeon instances were cross server, so even if you ran a dungeon successfully, leaders could switch the loot settings right as the last boss went down and you'd never see them again, nor your drops.

I have a lot of complaints about Tera, but it made me reminisce about the strong community feel that FFXI had, where it was the majority, not the minority, that were polite and decent human beings.
|Hello!| |/bow| |/salute| |Congratulations!| |Thank you.|
In Tera, if your guildmates greet after you log in, consider yourself lucky.

That brings me here today. I want a more party-oriented game, where people are forced to interact with others, and where the trolls can't handle the game and "give up and go back to wow" as we used to put it. I've heard FFXIV is more solo-friendly than FFXI, so that kind of worries me. Anyway, I was just hoping some of you could shed some light on how the FFXIV community is as a whole. Sorry for the giant wall o' text.

tl;dr: How's the community in FFXIV?
#2 Jun 14 2012 at 7:31 PM Rating: Decent
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It'll vary depending on server, but as for Aegis, it's very similar to how it was on XI. Shouts in Ul'dah (would be compared to Jeuno), etc...

I have heard reports from other servers that people can't even get a group for anything. So it varies.
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#3 Jun 14 2012 at 7:37 PM Rating: Default
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ZeitgeistRomeo wrote:
tl;dr: How's the community in FFXIV?

Check the official forums. You don't need an account to read them, but you know the people posting are people who play. It's about the same as any other just on a much smaller scale.

Try it out. It's 10 bucks and a few hours lost if you don't like it. It also buys you a chance at 2.0 beta and at least the free month trial when that is released.
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#4 Jun 14 2012 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Try it out. It's 10 bucks and a few hours lost if you don't like it. It also buys you a chance at 2.0 beta and at least the free month trial when that is released.


Thanks, I've been giving the official forums a read as well. Will definitely try it out, as I have already cancelled my Tera sub. Now to convince my roomate to abandon ship as well...
#5FilthMcNasty, Posted: Jun 14 2012 at 10:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Correction, it's $13 and not $10. So a few fingers and a leg, but not the whole arm...
#6 Jun 15 2012 at 12:08 AM Rating: Good
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I play MMOs A LOT. I have played almost every big MMO release since the original Everquest and a lot of free-to-play ones. FFXI had the biggest impact on me because of its mature game-style. You have to read a lot, the story is engaging, the battle system (while slow) took skill. I guess the only downside I had in FFXI is the PvP... I didn't think it was that great.

So I just started playing FFXIV yesterday. I am in love with it. It's a fresh FFXI that is faster paced. It's not any other cookie-cutter MMO, mind you... but it is faster than FFXI with the same feeling of being just one dude in a huge world. The options of things to do can be a bit overwhelming, but nice in that your one character can do it ALL! ...That's the way it seems anyways. Also, if you stick around and get the Legacy status, I think that is a nice benefit too. I started up FFXI again some time last week... I was so happy to be back in Vana'diel, but then the whole community is already in end game, starting from scratch was a little disheartening. So to log into FFXIV and see a lot of people leveling, it feels fresh. The heavy story-driven quests which I really liked about FFXI is in FFXIV. There are a lot of cut scenes... it's just very involving. Wow man, I'm stoked. I really like FFXIV. This is it for me, I'll be playing this for a few more years.

The best part... it's only getting better with the staff working on 2.0. The job system has room for so much potential! It's like the first Final Fantasy Tactics!!

Did I mention pretty mature community? The language translation system is also still there. Learning curve is a bit high for someone who hasn't played FFXI or FFXIV though... but still not as steep as it was for FFXI.

Anyways, what am I doing, I gotta play FFXIV!

See you in game, I'll know you will enjoy it!

#7 Jun 15 2012 at 12:19 AM Rating: Default
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The way you dual wield those pom poms... I'm considering making a return now. **** you! Smiley: lol
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#8 Jun 15 2012 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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Gah! For some odd reason the "Dual Weilding Pom Poms" Comment strikes the urge for me to mention that you can adjust chest size in FFXIV 2.0 too >.>

Anyways you should dive in, Nasty. You'll probably squeeze more time out in the last few months than I have in the past year and a half *grumbledamnjobsgrumble*
#9FilthMcNasty, Posted: Jun 15 2012 at 7:08 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Other things on my plate and for reasons stated elsewhere in the forum, I wouldn't join unless everyone was on even ground.
#10 Jun 15 2012 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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In terms of community, it's up and down. I'll share my experiences both good and bad from the last week, as I just came back.

-My linkshell had disbanded and reformed because there is no way to kick members out if they aren't online, and theres a limit of 125 players. I could not find them again, but it wasnt hard to find a new active LS.

-No one uses the REALLY good Seek Party tools, and still shout for events and parties, but it's easy to find people for most things.

-I've had 7 or 8 EXP parties in the last week, from 30-45. Most were good, but quiet. No one talked or responded, and the one last night was downright dreadful, where we wiped twice and every single member left without a word, one by one. It really tainted my view, so I went out to a camp with a friend to duo.

-At THIS camp, some random people showed up and asked to join us, were super helpful and nice, and it was a really great and enjoyable experience all around and reminded me of FFXI.

So.. it's a mixed bag, but I think the majority of players have been playing the entire time and lost their enjoyment of the game, but going through the paces.

New players I've met are loving it, and a few of my friends who quit in the first week have returned to a whole new game, and loving it.
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#11 Jun 15 2012 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
Gah! For some odd reason the "Dual Weilding Pom Poms" Comment strikes the urge for me to mention that you can adjust chest size in FFXIV 2.0 too >.>

Anyways you should dive in, Nasty. You'll probably squeeze more time out in the last few months than I have in the past year and a half *grumbledamnjobsgrumble*


Other things on my plate and for reasons stated elsewhere in the forum, I wouldn't join unless everyone was on even ground.

Rinsui... bewbs says herro!


Sorry I haven't been following Zam as much as I should. Are you implying that you won't join unless the servers are reset? Or are you upset over the Legacy system?
Either case is already resolved. If you want the Legacy price, sign up now. If you want to have an 'even start' then Roll on a new server when 2.0 launches. Zat simple.

It's your decision entirely of course, but if you want to play, don't hold yourself back because of 'standards' over a video game. That's justifying self-imposed misery for the sake of appearance.

Everything else being equal (such as being able to afford it) the only 'standard' one should have as far as video games go is personal enjoyment. Everything else is fluff.
#12 Jun 15 2012 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
My experience of the gaming community in FFXIV has been very positive but you have to 'find your fit' and try a few linkshells out, get in a few parties. Most people are sociable and even though you do get a few annoying players most of the time people are mature but with a sense of fun - after all people that play tend to play for the same types of reasons.

As Louiscool says the party search feature is vastly underused but the community and most people just shout in one of the main cities or pal up with linkshell friends. I would certainly recommend trying it like Filthy has said because it sounds like you would enjoy from the way you describe your other MMO experience.

Edited, Jun 15th 2012 5:17pm by EdyNOTB
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#13 Jun 15 2012 at 11:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
Gah! For some odd reason the "Dual Weilding Pom Poms" Comment strikes the urge for me to mention that you can adjust chest size in FFXIV 2.0 too >.>

Anyways you should dive in, Nasty. You'll probably squeeze more time out in the last few months than I have in the past year and a half *grumbledamnjobsgrumble*


Other things on my plate and for reasons stated elsewhere in the forum, I wouldn't join unless everyone was on even ground.

Rinsui... bewbs says herro!


Sorry I haven't been following Zam as much as I should. Are you implying that you won't join unless the servers are reset? Or are you upset over the Legacy system?
Either case is already resolved. If you want the Legacy price, sign up now. If you want to have an 'even start' then Roll on a new server when 2.0 launches. Zat simple.


Yeah, McNasty's in favor of a full-character wipe in 2.0.

Though, they are opening fresh servers for new people at 2.0 for those who want that "fresh" experience.


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#14 Jun 15 2012 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent
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"Clean Slate" would be the worst idea ever.

It will be a clean slate regardless. How many people per server have been playing this entire time? MAYBE 600? There were 90 people on Wutai before it merged.

Now think of FFXI numbers, which are much lower than WoW or any other MMO in the first 30 days. Still have about 2,000-4,000 at Peak times. That's not total players either.

So is it REALLY gamebreaking to have 20% of your population with leveled jobs? No, and in fact, you'll be happy for these people when you need help doing some AF quest or high level NM.

Think about it another way, how quickly did you see players at max level when new jobs were released in FFXI? Within 24 hours. The first level 75 Dancer was online the day after it was released.

So do you think that these players, so committed to FFXIV that they've been playing for 2 years, won't do the same thing with a fresh start? How long does a fresh start last anyway, a week? And of the people still playing, most people only have around 1-4 mil gil, which doesn't take long to acquire.

I wouldn't mind a monetary reset, say like you could only transfer X amount of gil to 2.0, but taking away the weapons armor and levels I gained would be a slap in the face.
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#15 Jun 15 2012 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
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Nah, of course there should not be any wipes. People played and paid for their progress for months, and you can not reasonably expect them to do basically the same thing twice. As long as Yoshi provides me with a new (pristine ;) ) server that's protected from server transfers for a year or so I see no problem. Nothing worse than starting on a "new" server that's already half-full with old billionaires and RMT transferees hijacking the economy from day 1. Bah >.<. Then again, not even SE is that stupid, so relax.

P.S.: I just imagined Columbus discovering the "New World" only to be offered a sightseeing tour in accent-free Castile Spanish by a "native-style" dressed tour guide: "Welcome to the new world, Mr. Columbus. We've already mapped out the whole continent for you, and we will make absolutely sure that you will not have to deal with any surprises, discoveries, dangers or adventures on your own. Just stay in the tour bus, watch us fending off the dangers of the wild, and enjoy the ride." What a disappointment, hahaha!!! /-.-\

Edited, Jun 15th 2012 3:18pm by Rinsui
#16 Jun 15 2012 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Well they'll definitely be providing fresh servers, but its unknown (and quite possible) that everyone will be able to select their server on reboot.

They are allowing current players to change gender and appearance, and looking into name changes as well (in the case of changing to a female character, wont be named Ronald). They've also said that players may be able to select a new server when they start.

I'm not sure how likely that is, as it would be much easier for them to just port everyone over in a chunk but.. I don't know. It's going to be a new world for everyone. You'll want some population diversity at the start or you'll be right here complaining that its too crowded at the first camp and all the level 1 sheep are dead before they spawn and it's so laggy.

I remember 14s launch and it was impossible to move in that first camp because of the congestion.
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#17 Jun 15 2012 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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They're pretty much keeping the 'clean' servers no limits for brand new characters. Legacy players will be able to roll a new character on them, and still get the new chocobo and whatnot. However, they won't get to take their old, already leveled characters onto these new servers.
#18 Jun 15 2012 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I remember 14s launch and it was impossible to move in that first camp because of the congestion.

Simply let new players choose whether they want to deal with a week of congestion or being the poor new kid in an economy controlled by a small clique of all-50 billionaires. Some newcomers may actually prefer being introduced to the game by benevolent and generously condescending old dogs. For those in search for adventure, the choice is quite easy.

Quote:
And of the people still playing, most people only have around 1-4 mil gil, which doesn't take long to acquire.

So if it doesn't take long to acquire, why would they have only 1-4 million gil? By the way, my character is sitting on 65 millions, and I quit more than a year ago. I think you underestimate how easy it was to make money in the beginning.

Quote:
I wouldn't mind a monetary reset, say like you could only transfer X amount of gil to 2.0, but taking away the weapons armor and levels I gained would be a slap in the face.

I also thought about that, and bought hundreds of thousands of shards, crystals, clusters and base materials in preparation for a monetary reset. Buy stuff cheap now -> money reset -> me still crazy rich because of stuff. Monetary reset alone doesn't work, because there are always ways to transfer your wealth. Either you wipe everything not EX (which would rightfully lead to a burning SE HQ), or save yourself the trouble of wiping anything. RMT are smart. Only part of their wealth is stored in gil; a lot of it is parked in stackable valuable commodities. ^u^

Edited, Jun 15th 2012 3:58pm by Rinsui
#19 Jun 15 2012 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
I remember 14s launch and it was impossible to move in that first camp because of the congestion.

Simply let new players choose whether they want to deal with a week of congestion or being the poor new kid in an economy controlled by a small clique of all-50 billionaires. Some newcomers may actually prefer being introduced to the game by benevolent and generously condescending old dogs. For those in search for adventure, the choice is quite easy.



Condescension old dog?

I don't know which part of that to resent!

A slight piece of reality: Most players are only condescending on the forums. The only ones you're going to encounter that are condescending OUT of forms, are those 'hardcore' players who you'll never play with anyways.
#20 Jun 15 2012 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sorry. Where I come from "old dog" actually bears a positive connotation ("wise old dog who knows his way around"). I hesitated about using the word condescending after looking it up in the dictionary, but I think it fits my own, personal experience quite well. My experience with joining big, famous, established linkshells with very advanced leaders up to now is that you will generally be welcome and treated generously and kind, but in a way that somehow makes sure you remember your dependence on the goodwill of those higher up on the ladder of MMO greatness. BUT: of course, I can not claim that this experience is typical or necessarily the norm. That's why I prefer starting on the same footing with everyone else on a fresh server. And my naive guess is that most prospective players share that feeling. You disagree?


Edited, Jun 15th 2012 4:07pm by Rinsui
#21 Jun 15 2012 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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I think it depends on the individual.

I probably meet your definition only to the extent that I will help someone enable themselves to be independent, and encourage them to think for themselves instead of listen to the crowd. "It's ok, you're new, and impressionable, don't listen to those idiots. Learn the mechanics, then decide what you want to do with them."
#22 Jun 15 2012 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
Sorry I haven't been following Zam as much as I should. Are you implying that you won't join unless the servers are reset?

Pretty much. I'm giving SE the benefit of the doubt, my third doubt after being let down several times. When 2.0 goes live I'm going to enter as if I'd never played it before and I'd like that to be with a bunch of like minded people or people who are brand new. The main reason is level distribution, but there are other factors as well.

I don't really care about the cash gra... err, I mean Legacy campaign. It might save you money in the long run, but I'm still uncertain about how long my run at XIV may be. No offense, although I'm sure it'll offend some, but I'm not going to plunk down money upfront. It's basically betting on XIV becoming worthwhile and in my personal opinion, I haven't seen enough to warrant that wager.

UltKnightGrover wrote:
Yeah, McNasty's in favor of a full-character wipe in 2.0.

Though, they are opening fresh servers for new people at 2.0 for those who want that "fresh" experience.

To clarify(because everyone seems to think I'm some evil *******), I was in favor of character wipe back in I think Dec. 2010 when they announced the whole R&R(rebuild and reboot). I'm completely content with fresh servers for new players. I don't want to join a server where most of the people playing are doing events that will take me weeks(at a pace I probably couldn't commit to) to catch up to and months to gear up for.

I don't want SE to wipe the progress of those who have been playing since launch, just wanted an alternative to joining an established server.

About those bewbs Rinsui... Smiley: blush


Edited, Jun 15th 2012 4:20pm by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#23 Jun 15 2012 at 2:22 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I probably meet your definition only to the extent that I will help someone enable themselves to be independent, and encourage them to think for themselves instead of listen to the crowd. "It's ok, you're new, and impressionable, don't listen to those idiots. Learn the mechanics, then decide what you want to do with them."


Don't take it personally. I just wanted to stress the point that some people would prefer a fresh start for a multitude of reasons, one of them possibly being negative experiences with having to start at the bottom of a very rigid pre-established food chain. Sure they will be able to catch up in the long run, and sure, they will be able to ignore all the well-meaning advice and hints and offers for powerleveling, mission run-throughs and handholding. But it will be much, much harder to catch up on established servers than to carve your own destiny in a truly fresh, new and pristine world. That's all I'm asking for.

P.S.: Strangely enough, I pretty much agree with Mr. Filth for once. I wouldn't categorically deny the possibility that I could try out 2.0 even on an old server, but I would think about it quite a bit longer. I just don't like following the footsteps of others.

Quote:
To clarify(because everyone seems to think I'm some evil *******),

I wonder why that would be. I mean, it's not like you try to prove them right at every single possible occasion, is it?

P.S.II: That quote he uses is taken completely out of context! Smiley: lol


Edited, Jun 15th 2012 4:34pm by Rinsui
#24 Jun 15 2012 at 2:32 PM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
To clarify(because everyone seems to think I'm some evil *******),

I wonder why that would be. I mean, it's not like you try to prove them right at every single possible occasion, is it? P.S.: That quote is taken completely out of context! Smiley: lol


You didn't have to explain that Rin, give me a little credit Smiley: bah
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#25 Jun 15 2012 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
Sorry I haven't been following Zam as much as I should. Are you implying that you won't join unless the servers are reset?

Pretty much. I'm giving SE the benefit of the doubt, my third doubt after being let down several times. When 2.0 goes live I'm going to enter as if I'd never played it before and I'd like that to be with a bunch of like minded people or people who are brand new. The main reason is level distribution, but there are other factors as well.

I don't really care about the cash gra... err, I mean Legacy campaign. It might save you money in the long run, but I'm still uncertain about how long my run at XIV may be. No offense, although I'm sure it'll offend some, but I'm not going to plunk down money upfront. It's basically betting on XIV becoming worthwhile and in my personal opinion, I haven't seen enough to warrant that wager.


Call it a cash grab if you want. But they're losing money in the long run off of people they're already going to gain a consistent income from. If it were really a cash grab, they would be betting themselves for losing if so.



Anyways, level and gearing distribution at the start of the game is a valid concern, and one they address. I would recommend that you at least check out the cut-scenes and quest lines Via You-Tube to keep yourself up to date as to the plot developments.

Me? I'm content to stay. I've got crafts and classes to level in the meanwhile, and if i can experience the fights first hand, even more benefit. (I've already reached Legacy status so quitting now would be no sweat off of my back.)

That said, I've already seen plenty to warrant that wager. My bet was made when Yoshi-p made his persona apparent to the crowd. There's nothing in my experiences with him thus far that states that our ideas do not align. He cares about this game and will see it through, and everything I've seen is evidence to that fact. Square Enix is invested into making FFXIV work, and they pitted the right guy for the job.

And right now there's enough in the game to keep me there. I'm excited about the improvements coming, but really it was Yoshi that sold me.
#26 Jun 15 2012 at 4:49 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:


And right now there's enough in the game to keep me there. I'm excited about the improvements coming, but really it was Yoshi that sold me.



This. This, this, this, this.

I wouldn't be playing now if it were the Square-Enix of old making that promise. I remember a certain nerf Red Mage got in FFXI about five or so years ago and it caused a global outcry from the players. Tanaka got a community representative on the Allakhazam boards to say "hey! We're listening. We'll try and get player feedback in the future."

Want to know what happened with community interaction after that? Yep, that's right. Nothing!

When XIV tanked, yes I took a break. I stopped playing for a few months. I didn't trust Square-Enix. Yoshi came in and said things will change. I was skeptical, but the updates in the last year have proved to trust the guy. The only promises he has failed to make that I can count so far are:

1) He can never make update schedules on time. (But he always explains why, and never lies about what is coming to the game. Remember FFXI avatars? How long those were promised)

2) The E3 trailer failed to come on time. (They said they finished it, and we got screenshots of what the game will look like in its place. Not as good as seeing gameplay in action, but we weren't completely left in the dark.)
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Final Fantasy XI:
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#27 Jun 15 2012 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
Call it a cash grab if you want. But they're losing money in the long run off of people they're already going to gain a consistent income from. If it were really a cash grab, they would be betting themselves for losing if so.

Well I can't be certain, but the number of "Help me I'm starting XIV" threads popping up lately are inversely proportional to the number of days left to get in on the Legacy campaign Smiley: dubious

Hyrist wrote:
My bet was made when Yoshi-p made his persona apparent to the crowd. There's nothing in my experiences with him thus far that states that our ideas do not align. He cares about this game and will see it through, and everything I've seen is evidence to that fact.

Pretty much the sole reason I have any hope at all is the sheer determination of Yoshi and crew to not let this one slip, but I'm still cautious because of being burned before and lied to. Like I said, I'll give them a fair shot but it will be when 2.0 comes and I can actually get a hands on with their vision for the future of the game.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#28 Jun 16 2012 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the many responses. I've pretty much decided to hop on board at this point. Right I'm just trying to retrieve my Square Enix ID, since my security token is bound to it. Seems that emails to SE support only get answered on weekdays though, so I'll be forum lurking til then.

Edited, Jun 16th 2012 5:11pm by ZeitgeistRomeo
#29 Jun 17 2012 at 12:36 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I don't really care about the cash gra... err, I mean Legacy campaign.


SE's evil cash grab plan: Give lifetime discount to 1,000's of players who are already paying to play.

Seems legit.



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#30 Jun 17 2012 at 1:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
SE's evil cash grab plan: Give lifetime discount to 1,000's of players who are already paying to play.

Seems legit.


Life-time discounts = bad sign.

Any company that offers life-time discounts thinks life-time won't be very long, if mcdonalds offered 20% off all meals for the life of the company I would think they would be out of business in a year or two, this being a PR stunt to get as many sales as possible before that happened. It's honestly madness for any company that lives on subs to offer such a big reduction for no reason.

If it was 1-2 year reduction? ok but life-time? XD Their lack of faith in the game is as bad as the 12k worldwide player numbers.

Edited, Jun 17th 2012 3:23am by Runespider
#31 Jun 17 2012 at 1:51 AM Rating: Good
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Runespider wrote:
Quote:
SE's evil cash grab plan: Give lifetime discount to 1,000's of players who are already paying to play.

Seems legit.


Life-time discounts = bad sign.

Any company that offers life-time discounts thinks life-time won't be very long, if mcdonalds offered 20% off all meals for the life of the company I would think they would be out of business in a year or two, this being a PR stunt to get as many sales as possible before that happened. It's honestly madness for any company that lives on subs to offer such a big reduction for no reason.

If it was 1-2 year reduction? ok but life-time? XD Their lack of faith in the game is as bad as the 12k worldwide player numbers.

Edited, Jun 17th 2012 3:23am by Runespider


Quite a few successful MMOs launched with lifetime subs, annual purchase discounts, etc... I think what you really need to look at is that there are likely less than 50K of us paying (not playing, paying; some people are indeed paying for 90 days without even being able to play), SE is HOPING for XI like numbers post 2.0 and PS3 launch... and they may very well get that number if the changes are anough and functional. Chocobo raising alone will bring in a few sheep, I know that would be enough to make me come back... it's silly, but it's one of the types of meta-games I enjoy in any game. Point is, they won't be losing much money... I'd hazard to guess that our legacy discount still nets profit of some sort.
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#32 Jun 17 2012 at 1:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Point is, they won't be losing much money... I'd hazard to guess that our legacy discount still nets profit of some so


Well if they had faith in v2 they wouldn't offer a reduction in sub cost at all, if this game ran 10 years they would lose a massive amount of money for no reason. They could of offered a comsetic item and everyone would of been happy with that, going to this extreme shows severe lack of faith in it no?

If the people running GW2 offered life time reduction in subs for playing the beta people would be liek "why the **** would they do this?" (yes I know it's a b2p game, was an example), same applies here, why would they do it when they don't have to. It's not to thank the "loyal" players cause there are cheap ways to do that.

Oh and honestly since this game has 12k subscribers now it would mean the legacy subscribers paying less while the majority of players they need and hope to attract will be paying more forever (they are rewarding 12k while angering the 150k+ they need to attract for v2), the amount of hate it would cause would be insane and would lead to them being forced to lower it for everyone and them going back on the legacy advert anyway. Imagine if WoW did this and gave a price reduction to people that went to blizzcon, people that didn't go would mass riot and quit in protest at paying more for the same product.

The people behind these PR stunts at SE is retarded if they think people will accept this. The people already playing is so low they don't matter, treating new potential subscribers as the red headed step child when the success or failure of the game hinges on them is stupid.

"Come back to FFXIV v2, pay more than current players but we really need you back!" derp

Customers nowhere for any product ever will accept paying more than other players for the life of the product (MMO players are rabidly unreasonable these days so even less so), if V2 is supposed to be a whole new product and they want people to get on board for that they can't show favouritism in this way. Either legacy is a complete lie cause they can't do it without angering too many players or the game won't last more than a few years.



Edited, Jun 17th 2012 4:45am by Runespider
#33 Jun 17 2012 at 4:09 AM Rating: Default
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Runespider wrote:
Quote:
SE's evil cash grab plan: Give lifetime discount to 1,000's of players who are already paying to play.

Seems legit.


Life-time discounts = bad sign.


This Legacy campaign makes me think SE has no idea how to market or promote this game...

The discount for the people who paid 3 months isn't a big deal because they're banking on a lot more people joining for the 2.0 launch. That should have been unannounced until they stopped accepting 3 month subs. Sort of a "Hey, thanks for paying even though we know the game wasn't worth paying for. Here's a gift from us to you." kind of thing. It should be a sweeter deal for those who didn't see it coming.

New players should get a discount for subbing for more than a month. 5% off for a 3 month recurring sub and 15% for an annual sub with some sort of in-game bonus you can only get for signing up for a year. That way they get money up front and new players get something that is only available to them and the chance to lock in a good discount.

Runespider wrote:
Well if they had faith in v2 they wouldn't offer a reduction in sub cost at all, if this game ran 10 years they would lose a massive amount of money for no reason.


They wouldn't lose money. If they are smart about it and are able to actually salvage it, it will take half that time before they break even on development costs and start to make money. Assuming this happens, it's not a loss; just not as much of a gain.

If they followed my advice above they give themselves even more leeway to bring better content and more adjustments to the game. They get to stretch out their deadline in a sense because if you pay up front for a year of service, then you'll use it. Even if you aren't doing backflips for the release version they have a year to hook you beyond the 30 day trial.

Edited, Jun 17th 2012 6:14am by FilthMcNasty
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#34 Jun 17 2012 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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Runespider wrote:
Quote:
Point is, they won't be losing much money... I'd hazard to guess that our legacy discount still nets profit of some so


Well if they had faith in v2 they wouldn't offer a reduction in sub cost at all, if this game ran 10 years they would lose a massive amount of money for no reason. They could of offered a comsetic item and everyone would of been happy with that, going to this extreme shows severe lack of faith in it no?


No.

And sating as such shows the severe lack of faith you and other players have for Square Enix at this point.

It's not about their faith in the game so much as our faith in them. Yoshida has pretty much forced a policy change in Square Enix so far as FFXIV is concerned. The discounted rate was the players' idea intended during this current period of the game and it wasn't feasible to do. This was their alternative to a discount for the duration of 1.2x era, and overall a better idea.

This isn't so much about making up for lost revenue (As Squaresoft alone before Enix has shown a history of hitting the brink and making up for it.) It's about repairing lost faith in the brand. In their mind, it's a thank you and an apology to those who sat and struggled through the horrible launch yet still retained their faith, and an enticement to give a little bit of faith back in development crew.

But some people will always see things in the most negative light and will never be satisfied regardless.

So no, not bad times, good tidings. It's flawed logic to apply western business standards to a foreign orientated company. A Western game company would have long ago considered a Free To Play model, like SWTOR is doing now, and they have a MUCH better launch than FFXIV ever did.

No, this is about lost honor for them more than making up lost money. They broke their word and they want to make it right - not that any sarcastic, jaded individual who will always believe the worst first will ever believe that.
#35 Jun 17 2012 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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A Western game company would have long ago considered a Free To Play model, like SWTOR is doing now, and they have a MUCH better launch than FFXIV ever did.


Don't think that is actually happening.

Quote:
No, this is about lost honor for them more than making up lost money. They broke their word and they want to make it right - not that any sarcastic, jaded individual who will always believe the worst first will ever believe that.


Can believe they are doing it to save face but not to be nice and keep a promise to their players, this is a multi million dollar company. If you played FFXI you would see how they treat their loyal customers.

Quote:
The discounted rate was the players' idea intended during this current period of the game and it wasn't feasible to do. This was their alternative to a discount for the duration of 1.2x era, and overall a better idea.


So the idea to attract new customers is to reward the ones that are here and let the new customers know that they will pay more for the game for life? The game doesn't have enough players to sustain itself now, they need new players and making them pay more isn't gonna help that.

If I waited for a year to play Tera and and then read that everyone before me pays 20% less I would be incredibly angry. They need to stop looking at it from the players they have now perspective and more from how new customers view things, cause if they don't target them the game is screwed.
#36 Jun 17 2012 at 7:28 PM Rating: Good
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They did reduce the price for new players in 2.0 ($9.99 for standard 1 character per server and 12.99 for all 8 characters each server vs the 1.0 launch attempt (and FFXI) at $12.99 for only 1 character). That is already below standard $14.99 P2P subs in the industry. I'm not sure if asking for further discount is for SE and players' good or just personal wish.

They did offer discount for package subs like 90 and 180 days. SE never had annual subs option.

SWTOR, despite good launch and all, let go quite a fair bit of their development team. Studio 38, which in the past some people on this very forum said SE devs would be far better off run away to them, also had only good things on their record (1.3m+ sales for their first very mediocre game) and look at what are they like now. Selling millions and then went bankrupt isn't an impossibility. So nobody here can be sure why SWTOR would consider F2P and why SE wouldn't.
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#37 Jun 17 2012 at 8:12 PM Rating: Default
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Khornette wrote:
SWTOR, despite good launch and all, let go quite a fair bit of their development team. Studio 38, which in the past some people on this very forum said SE devs would be far better off run away to them, also had only good things on their record (1.3m+ sales for their first very mediocre game) and look at what are they like now. Selling millions and then went bankrupt isn't an impossibility. So nobody here can be sure why SWTOR would consider F2P and why SE wouldn't.


SE doesn't run their P2P model well. Blizzards works because they're popular, they're constantly tweaking the game and they implement quite a bit of content. Who's to say what the P2P model will be like for the rest, but these companies need to understand that they'll have to add and maintain value to keep players paying.

I don't know where the bolded statement comes from. I don't recall hearing anything about them going bankrupt or even being on the verge of it. It's normal to let go of a bunch of developers when you had a staff like they did. Developing for launch is completely different from content maintenance and doesn't require the manpower. That just makes sense.
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Rinsui wrote:
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#38 Jun 17 2012 at 9:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Give it a whirl and see how you like it. Since you would be starting out there is a great deal of content for ya before 2.0 hits.

After 10 classes at 50 and almost 2 years I am gravitating away from the game. Like many have in our linkshell. "Endgame" or the lack of real endgame is not fun. Running primals, dungeons, hamlet and then having relics that make you do that content over and over for the chance of getting the items you need to progress the relic quest. Right now it's a way to hold players over and make them spam the same low drop rate boring content over and over.

I will most likely not login until beta 2.0 starts. And see how things are. However like I said there is plenty to do before you would get fed up with that stuff.

#39 Jun 17 2012 at 11:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Runespider wrote:


Don't think that is actually happening.


They are thinking about it. Whether or not it happens is still in the air.


Quote:

Can believe they are doing it to save face but not to be nice and keep a promise to their players, this is a multi million dollar company. If you played FFXI you would see how they treat their loyal customers.

._.

Really?

Heh, I guess you don't follow much of FFXI's media over the years.

4 Time feature of LvlUp and one of the early members of WeSH
Custom .dat donor to fan video series Lament of Torment(first season).
2nd place winner of Limit Break Radio's fan dub contest and 2 time guest.
Featured Guest host of FFXI He Said, She Said.

And let's not forget, one of the loudest voices in favor of front line Red Mages.

I was active in FFXI since the NA release of the game, you don't have to tell me about Square Enix's flawed business policy. I told you that this shift in gear and perspective is Yoshida's influence paired with a reality check FFXIV's failure gave SE executives. This may be a multimillion dollar company, but this is still a Japanese company at heart. Remember, they shut down their servers to aid energy reservation efforts after the Earthquake/Tsunami, refunding the players for the lost month. Don't try to tote around Western Sensibilities like it's the global standard. Some cultures are far more polite and honorable than ours.

Out of curiosity, do you happen to know anyone who's lived in both locations? If so, they'll be glad to tell you the difference.

Quote:
So the idea to attract new customers is to reward the ones that are here and let the new customers know that they will pay more for the game for life? The game doesn't have enough players to sustain itself now, they need new players and making them pay more isn't gonna help that.


They're paying more? Let's ignore the global price reductions for a moment. They're not paying more anything. The rate of payment hasn't gone up simply because they canceled. They'd be paying the exact same amount they would have paid at the start if the launch was successful. Rather, the price for those who did feed them money when they pulled back into development of a new engine for the game are getting a price reduction. Just because somebody gets a membership discount doesn't mean you got screwed. That's entitlement if I've ever seen one.

Now let's factor in that the prices actually have been reduced across the board and we see how foolish that statement is.

But far and beyond all that, Yosh*ta made it pretty clear that they want to work with those who stuck with it, and let the strength of the game they are making sell and market the game. If the game is good, it'll sell. The discount is to thank those who put money to their faith that the crew could turn this game around. That's a good thing - not forgetting those who helped and encouraged you when you screwed up and are trying to make things right. It's called appreciation - a concept apparently lost on some people.


Edited, Jun 18th 2012 1:17am by Hyrist
#40 Jun 17 2012 at 11:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
4 Time feature of LvlUp and one of the early members of WeSH
Custom .dat donor to fan video series Lament of Torment(first season).
2nd place winner of Limit Break Radio's fan dub contest and 2 time guest.
Featured Guest host of FFXI He Said, She Said.

Had me going for a while until...
Hyrist wrote:
And let's not forget, one of the loudest voices in favor of front line Red Mages.

...and I went limp Smiley: laugh
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#41 Jun 18 2012 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Khornette wrote:
SWTOR, despite good launch and all, let go quite a fair bit of their development team. Studio 38, which in the past some people on this very forum said SE devs would be far better off run away to them, also had only good things on their record (1.3m+ sales for their first very mediocre game) and look at what are they like now. Selling millions and then went bankrupt isn't an impossibility. So nobody here can be sure why SWTOR would consider F2P and why SE wouldn't.


I don't know where the bolded statement comes from. I don't recall hearing anything about them going bankrupt or even being on the verge of it. It's normal to let go of a bunch of developers when you had a staff like they did. Developing for launch is completely different from content maintenance and doesn't require the manpower. That just makes sense.


The bolded statement is more on Studio 38 part. It is also meant to state my belief that just because something is presented as successful because it sold millions, doesn't mean it is profitable. That's why I stressed again nobody here can be sure why SWTOR would consider F2P, including you. Thankfully, you are neither in control of SE nor EA/Bioware.

As much as a money printing business Activision/Blizzard is, Vivendi is actively looking to sell them too. **** happens.
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#42 Jun 18 2012 at 2:18 AM Rating: Default
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Khornette wrote:
The bolded statement is more on Studio 38 part. It is also meant to state my belief that just because something is presented as successful because it sold millions, doesn't mean it is profitable.


Studio 38 isn't a good representation of the industry so I'm not sure why you'd make a general statement about it.

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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#43 Jun 18 2012 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
4 Time feature of LvlUp and one of the early members of WeSH
Custom .dat donor to fan video series Lament of Torment(first season).
2nd place winner of Limit Break Radio's fan dub contest and 2 time guest.
Featured Guest host of FFXI He Said, She Said.

Had me going for a while until...
Hyrist wrote:
And let's not forget, one of the loudest voices in favor of front line Red Mages.

...and I went limp Smiley: laugh


Ha. That's usually the reaction. I was notorious for it, but I never caved. Hoping FFXIV does RDM right and keeps it hybrid. Seeming how they managed to accomplish that with Bard, I'm pretty hopeful.
#44 Jun 18 2012 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Any company that offers life-time discounts thinks life-time won't be very long, if mcdonalds offered 20% off all meals for the life of the company I would think they would be out of business in a year or two


I think you're neglecting to realize that they actually INCREASED the sub price to 14.99. It was initially 12.99, so 9.99 for what is sure (we hope) to be the minority of players isn't that bad. (Though we will all have 7 mules for free..)

Quote:
I'm excited about the improvements coming, but really it was Yoshi that sold me.


Really, it's 50/50 on the legacy campaign AND the E3 coverage that got me to come back. It made me remember with fondnessish, and then I checked the updates and went all gooey eyed.

Quote:
I don't really care about the cash gra... err, I mean Legacy campaign.


If it was really a "cash-grab" stunt, they wouldn't have a cut-off date. They would just let someone pay them $30 in September to get legacy status.

Quote:
No, this is about lost honor for them more than making up lost money. They broke their word and they want to make it right - not that any sarcastic, jaded individual who will always believe the worst first will ever believe that


Very well said. If you've read the Yoshi-P interview on GamerEscape, he practically says just this while trying not to. They are trying to regain their customer's faith in their company. Call me gullible, but I actually trust Yoshi-P on his word. He's always been candid with us and as long as he's the producer, I have faith in FFXIV.



Edited, Jun 18th 2012 11:41am by Louiscool
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#45 Jun 18 2012 at 1:56 PM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
If it was really a "cash-grab" stunt, they wouldn't have a cut-off date.


Really? That's the whole reason why it works Lou...

Get it now before it's gone gone GONE!
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#46 Jun 18 2012 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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You would have to be a lurker of FFXIV forums to even know about it. REALLY hard to grab cash when you don't market it.
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#47 Jun 18 2012 at 3:08 PM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
You would have to be a lurker of FFXIV forums to even know about it. REALLY hard to grab cash when you don't market it.


That or be interested enough in SE's products that you're on their mailing list? Or be someone who visits websites about MMOs? Or...
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#48 Jun 19 2012 at 7:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Filth, stop carrying a chip on your shoulder for me buddy, my neck is starting to chafe.
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#49 Jun 19 2012 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
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You would have to be a lurker of FFXIV forums to even know about it. REALLY hard to grab cash when you don't market it.


FFXI players, I think it was an attempt to push "wait and see"people into early buying BEFORE v2 launches. Reason for that could be anything but it does kind of smell of desperation. Legacy is a very bad idea and I'm actually surprised everybody that wants this game to succeed doesn't see that.
#50 Jun 19 2012 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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Depends on where you're sitting.

Word of mouth will spread this game better than advertisements will. And essentially what SE gave the Legacy players is a full character roster for the same price as a single player roster.

Which, given the fact that you can pretty much play all the content of the game on 1 character - amounts to SE giving Legacy characters a pretty chocobo and 700 inventory slots of Mule space per server.

The average player isn't going to sweat that at all. Though a highly astute player may complain.

In the end, its not going to harm the subscription base as you project it will. It's the gameplay and the community that will sell this game. If it's not there, it won't sell well. If it is, it will.

For all the hate and hype about Diablo III's always online play and real money auction house - the damage to their sales isn't even noticeable. Free character slots in a game where character slots don't even really matter is going to result to about the same.
#51 Jun 19 2012 at 5:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
For all the hate and hype about Diablo III's always online play and real money auction house - the damage to their sales isn't even noticeable. Free character slots in a game where character slots don't even really matter is going to result to about the same.

D3 already has something similar to compare to already, why not just use that? Blizz offered D3 free for anyone who had a WoW account and signed up for a year of service. People called it a cash grab, but the hype for D3 was multitudes more than the hype for XIV is, especially considering XIV's cash grab comes almost 2 years after it failed.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
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