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#1 Jun 19 2012 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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I was a long time player of FFXI and I finally decided to give XIV a go, and to my surprise, nobody TALKS.. I've been playing for about a week now, and, haven't heard a soul, Ive even tried talking to people and I get nothing. I'm not sure if it's the server I'm on or not, but I Haven't seen a single player chatting in the chat box. Ive been looking for a LS to join and haven't had a single player respond to my shouts.. I'm just confused, anyone else have the same issues?? I can say I do understand the game somewhat and really enjoy it, it's just I would love to have a linkshell that I could turn to if I have questions. I miss the communal based game I love to play. Any advice would be great!! One more thing, do people party in XIV or is it just more soloing??



Edited, Jun 21st 2012 12:49am by nadediasamaram
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#2 Jun 19 2012 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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Sorry to sound bold, but what's your age? If you're over 25 I can refer you to my guild (www.oldtimersguild.com) It's very open, casual, and social. We run what we call "OTG Expiditionary Force" which is pretty much dedicated to helping our guild members out with various things, quests, low levels, etc.

Being social tends to limit itself into Uldah for conversation and within linkshells.

Leveling parties don't really gain steam until later levels mainly because of how easy for most jobs it is to solo. Some parties do form now and then, you may want to do shows in Ul'dah if you're looking for either parties or linkshells.

If you want someone just to chat with, my name in game is Lin Celistine.
#3 Jun 19 2012 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sure he is 25+ now :P

All joking aside, I am on Balmung, and if it wasn't for the fact that I started because of 3 friends, I would know no one in game. I've tried talking to a few people (in Say and in Tell) and never get a response. I think a lot of people don't care enough about the low level content to bother making new friends. I am not the most social person in real life or in game, but I still like to try and meet new people and find active LS's that chat a bit (either in game or over Vent). I'll keep trying... and now that me and my wife are 30+ we ight have better luck meeting party/quest goers to chat with.
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#4 Jun 19 2012 at 4:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Hello, Didn't think it was bold at all, I completely understand. thanks for the reply. I'm 29 and a long time player of final fantasy.. I would love to join your LS, I take it you're on Excalibur server??



Edited, Jun 21st 2012 12:50am by nadediasamaram
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#5 Jun 19 2012 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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Yep. Although, I am not an officer of the guild, nor is my playtime very high within it (Working two jobs will do that when you work seven days a week.)

The website I linked should be able to let you know how to contact a chapter leader to help you get started in the guild. I've got close friends with me in this group, and I'm really liking the feel of it.
#6 Jun 19 2012 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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I may be underestimating this guess, but I'm guessing about 95% of the people playing the game right now have been playing since launch. The community isn't as chatty outside their LS as it was in FFXI. This game is much more solo based until you reach 40 or 45+. At that point you'll be finding parties to do end game content. From my experience, higher level people have pretty much given up trying to recruit lower level players due to the fact we've been burn too many times in the past. We'd spend time and effort to teach them the ropes and low and behold they would decide to quit playing the game a month down the road. This is a big problem that new players are facing when they begin playing. Pretty much every new player is coming from some sort of FFXI background and they expect things to be somewhat similar, but they end up having to deal with a major adjustment.
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#7 Jun 19 2012 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
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That makes sense, I was more concerned that I may have picked a really low level server or something. That makes me feel a little better, thank you Swisa.


Edited, Jun 21st 2012 12:50am by nadediasamaram
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#8 Jun 19 2012 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Just remake in Aegis is a blast, people chat, i had my first full party today, etc etc, got invited to 2 LS already
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#9 Jun 19 2012 at 7:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia saying something positive? I... I don't even...
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#10 Jun 19 2012 at 8:15 PM Rating: Good
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FFXI/FFXIV has always been quieter in the shouts than, say, WoW has (in /2). I'm usually more active in the mornings and late at night (CST), and have been adding people to my LS mostly during those times. If you're looking for people to talk to during those times, just message me on Excal, my name is Saima Decii. Purely a casual/socail LS.
#11 Jun 20 2012 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Grandlethal wrote:
I'm sure he is 25+ now :P

All joking aside, I am on Balmung, and if it wasn't for the fact that I started because of 3 friends, I would know no one in game. I've tried talking to a few people (in Say and in Tell) and never get a response. I think a lot of people don't care enough about the low level content to bother making new friends. I am not the most social person in real life or in game, but I still like to try and meet new people and find active LS's that chat a bit (either in game or over Vent). I'll keep trying... and now that me and my wife are 30+ we ight have better luck meeting party/quest goers to chat with.


This is the issue I encountered on Balmung as well. And it's also why I only log on when my best friend is available to play. If I wanted to play a solo RPG game, I'd be playing a different game. At least in XI I can always hit up Port Jeuno and start some silly conversation with acquaintances, even if there are no pick up group shouts. In XIV, I do not feel welcome. I do not feel any sense of camaraderie with the fellow players. I feel alone. That's the worst feeling a person can have in an MMO.

Honestly, that's what worries me the most about the launch of V 2.0 the most - the community of XIV is going to have to relaunch itself as well if there is to be any success.
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#12 Jun 20 2012 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
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The big question no one is asking...

What city are you in? You won't see anything outside of Ul'Dah. Also, use /Shout not /Say.
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#13 Jun 20 2012 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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I'm in Ul'dah....
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FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#14 Jun 20 2012 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
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You may be, but is Nadediasamaram?

Masamune is full of shouts in Uldah...


Honestly, it's not that people are anti-social its just...

Think of the populus as an insecure boy or girl that you're trying to date. They have been dumped so many times before and they know you're just gonna leave them like all the rest, so why bother putting in the effort to know you or help you.


I try to reach out to new players, but it's like, I'll spend my time to answer all your questions, give you some gil and gear, invite you to me LS, and then you'll quit. And I can't even remove you from my LS because you're no longer online so there's another -1 slot to me ls that has 90 members but only 26 online anymore and the cap is 128.

See? It's tough.

Edited, Jun 20th 2012 2:00pm by Louiscool
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#15 Jun 20 2012 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
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On top of people not talking too much, I found people tended to just ignore you.

What's the point of playing an MMO like that?
#16 Jun 20 2012 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
I'm on Sargatanas. I've been playing (again, after starting in 2010 and quitting in a month) for about a month and a half and have literally spoken to no one.

I have soloed (not that it's hard) every possible quest in every city and ranked up in the Adder high enough to get my chocobo, including all main scenario quests available up to my level. I have a couple things open that require a party, I have not done those.... My highest job is just 33 CNJ and I'm working on my little Gladiator now to unlock another CNJ quest....I don't even know HOW to be in a party; I am sure I will suck!

But I digress, I have not minded not being "social" up to this point; after all, I've only played 6 weeks. However, I think it would be nice to have a social/casual LS.... . The only reason I stayed in XI for as long as I did was the people. I feel like everyone else is talking to eachother and I'm the only one "alone". :/ I know it's ridiculous but somehow I feel left out lol.

Nothing compares to XI that's for sure.....
#17 Jun 20 2012 at 4:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
You may be, but is Nadediasamaram?

Masamune is full of shouts in Uldah...


Honestly, it's not that people are anti-social its just...

Think of the populus as an insecure boy or girl that you're trying to date. They have been dumped so many times before and they know you're just gonna leave them like all the rest, so why bother putting in the effort to know you or help you.

I try to reach out to new players, but it's like, I'll spend my time to answer all your questions, give you some gil and gear, invite you to me LS, and then you'll quit. And I can't even remove you from my LS because you're no longer online so there's another -1 slot to me ls that has 90 members but only 26 online anymore and the cap is 128.

See? It's tough.


26 members? My god, I haven't seen those kinds of numbers in a linkshell since I ran full scale Dynamis. Smiley: eek If you really run out of room, you can just re-shell like we did on pretty much an annual basis in XI.

As for helping newbies out, I never expected anything from the noobs I helped in XI. 10K gil, a pointer in the right direction or a piece of gear they needed, as well as a conversation and an answer to the questions. The majority of them quit, as you said, but every once in a while I run into someone I helped when they were just lowbies, and I'm like a proud mother when I see they're all grown up.
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FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#18 Jun 20 2012 at 6:16 PM Rating: Default
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catwho wrote:
As for helping newbies out, I never expected anything from the noobs I helped in XI. 10K gil, a pointer in the right direction or a piece of gear they needed, as well as a conversation and an answer to the questions. The majority of them quit, as you said, but every once in a while I run into someone I helped when they were just lowbies, and I'm like a proud mother when I see they're all grown up.


Doinitrite Smiley: nod
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#19 Jun 20 2012 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
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To speak on my personal experience, the main reason I'll ignore someone is if they are asking questions in shouts.

Maybe it's like ads, that I learned to filter out on websites even though they're there, but for the most part, I will only "read" a shout if I'm currently looking at the shouts (for example, if I'm interested in running AFs, I might look at the shouts and join a AF party. Likewise, I may join a XP grind PT if I was pondering the idea to make/join one). If I'm running, going to the AH, crafting, picking leves, talking to friends or anything of that sort, I'll probably not even see the shouts. Actually, crafting pretty much guarantees I won't see it as it spams over 5 lines of chat every action I take.

On the other hand, I usually answer total stranger tells instantly (or as fast as I can) and will gladly start a conversation with anyone who pokes me, crafts near me, or directly addresses me when I'm in the game.

Part of the reason I attribute the lack of answer for tells is also laziness -- why would I "talk" to someone who's shouting a question, after all, someone else may answer him. And if I do answer them, I will use Tells in order not to spam the chatbox for the entire server. If others share my line of thoughts, that means nobody knows if the question was answered in the first place (as it should have been answered in tells!), so if it's an obvious enough question, we may not send an answer at all, assuming someone else beat us to it.

TL;DR: I think most people who actually play the game (not those on forums) don't mind talking to strangers, but the best way to approach a person you have never met isn't to shout in any town. I promise that most players will react properly if you /tell or address them personally near aetherytes, quest NPCs, dungeon entrances and such.
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#20 Jun 20 2012 at 7:51 PM Rating: Decent
Also, judging by the official forums, people who have stuck it out since day 1 are crazy defensive about this game. They seem to want to have it become a niche game. It's almost a ***** you, you didn't enjoy it, I did, don't come back. I think this will be the biggest hurdle for 2.0, is having the current players accept the fact that new players will want to join new servers with no experienced players and have their own economy. SE should really just take everyone's gil away at the start of 2.0, but people feel they worked too hard...getting hand outs from simple leves...realllly hard.

The best thing to do would be to wipe everyone's data period, but then you'll get aggro from those who spent 3 hours power leveling all their jobs to 50.
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#21 Jun 20 2012 at 8:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Also, judging by the official forums, people who have stuck it out since day 1 are crazy defensive about this game. They seem to want to have it become a niche game. It's almost a ***** you, you didn't enjoy it, I did, don't come back. I think this will be the biggest hurdle for 2.0, is having the current players accept the fact that new players will want to join new servers with no experienced players and have their own economy. SE should really just take everyone's gil away at the start of 2.0, but people feel they worked too hard...getting hand outs from simple leves...realllly hard.

The best thing to do would be to wipe everyone's data period, but then you'll get aggro from those who spent 3 hours power leveling all their jobs to 50.


FF is kinda a niche game already. Taking gil away wouldn't quite work because players could just invest in items they know will be worth the gil. Nothing would stop people from buying up a bunch of mats and sitting on them, not to mention the slam the economy would take when they announced something like that with everyone snatching up everything they could.

Wiping data, I'm all for it. Then again I was hoping that 2.0 would be so vastly different from 1.0 that it wouldn't have affected people. Might actually have worked had they not charged for 1.0 and instead offered some sort of 'Buy a year of 2.0 early and get all kinds of goodies' deal. Instead you got Legacy.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#22 Jun 20 2012 at 10:33 PM Rating: Decent
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yea, I had started in Gridania, maybe that was the reason.. I actually switched servers and went to Aegis and started in Ul'dah and I found a lot more people shouting.. even tho it's mostly Japanese, it's better than nothing, haha. I would like to see XIV become more Communal based. I think you have to be use to change, when it comes to the Final Fantasy series, and even more so, to their MMORPG "XI, XVI". It doesn't explain why the community isn't the same as it was tho.. I don't know, I'm faithful to Final Fantasy, and have loved it since I was a kid.. I'm almost 30 and still find myself enjoying it. It took me a long time to give up on FFXI, but I knew it was time to move on, and now i find myself trying to understand a whole new world again and that in of it self makes it enjoyable.. I remember trying to make my first walk to the dunes for my first party, how much excitement there was! And no matter how many times I stop playing, and went back after creating a new character, each time, I had that same excitement going to a dunes party!! I'm holding on to those memories wanting to capture that experience again with XIV..



Edited, Jun 21st 2012 12:49am by nadediasamaram
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#23 Jun 20 2012 at 11:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
You may be, but is Nadediasamaram?

Masamune is full of shouts in Uldah...


Honestly, it's not that people are anti-social its just...

Think of the populus as an insecure boy or girl that you're trying to date. They have been dumped so many times before and they know you're just gonna leave them like all the rest, so why bother putting in the effort to know you or help you.


I try to reach out to new players, but it's like, I'll spend my time to answer all your questions, give you some gil and gear, invite you to me LS, and then you'll quit. And I can't even remove you from my LS because you're no longer online so there's another -1 slot to me ls that has 90 members but only 26 online anymore and the cap is 128.

See? It's tough.

Edited, Jun 20th 2012 2:00pm by Louiscool

yea, I had started in Gridania, maybe that was the reason.. I actually switched servers and went to Aegis and started in Ul'dah and I found a lot more people shouting.. even tho it's mostly Japanese, it's better than nothing, haha. I would like to see XIV become more Communal based. I think you have to be use to change, when it comes to the Final Fantasy series, and even more so, to their MMORPG "XI, XVI". It doesn't explain why the community isn't the same as it was tho.. I don't know, I'm faithful to Final Fantasy, and have loved it since I was a kid.. I'm almost 30 and still find myself enjoying it. It took me a long time to give up on FFXI, but I knew it was time to move on, and now i find myself trying to understand a whole new world again and that in of it self makes it enjoyable.. I remember trying to make my first walk to the dunes for my first party, how much excitement there was! And no matter how many times I stop playing, and went back after creating a new character, each time, I had that same excitement going to a dunes party!! I'm holding on to those memories wanting to capture that experience again with XIV..
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#24 Jun 21 2012 at 2:18 AM Rating: Good
FilthMcNasty wrote:
FF is kinda a niche game already. Taking gil away wouldn't quite work because players could just invest in items they know will be worth the gil. Nothing would stop people from buying up a bunch of mats and sitting on them, not to mention the slam the economy would take when they announced something like that with everyone snatching up everything they could.

Wiping data, I'm all for it. Then again I was hoping that 2.0 would be so vastly different from 1.0 that it wouldn't have affected people. Might actually have worked had they not charged for 1.0 and instead offered some sort of 'Buy a year of 2.0 early and get all kinds of goodies' deal. Instead you got Legacy.


Well, there's a difference with a niche game in FFXI that once boasted 500,000 subscribers, and still probably has 150,000...and one like XIV that MIGHT have 30,000 active players. You can justify expansions and updates with one (even though it hasn't had much loving since Abyssea, but may have something at vanafest), and the other, pray to god enough people hop onto 2.0.
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#25 Jun 21 2012 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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If you're on Aegeis, go to www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv

Most people there are on Aegeis and will probably be helpful in finding an LS.
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#26 Jun 21 2012 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
FF is kinda a niche game already. Taking gil away wouldn't quite work because players could just invest in items they know will be worth the gil. Nothing would stop people from buying up a bunch of mats and sitting on them, not to mention the slam the economy would take when they announced something like that with everyone snatching up everything they could.

Wiping data, I'm all for it. Then again I was hoping that 2.0 would be so vastly different from 1.0 that it wouldn't have affected people. Might actually have worked had they not charged for 1.0 and instead offered some sort of 'Buy a year of 2.0 early and get all kinds of goodies' deal. Instead you got Legacy.


Well, there's a difference with a niche game in FFXI that once boasted 500,000 subscribers, and still probably has 150,000...and one like XIV that MIGHT have 30,000 active players. You can justify expansions and updates with one (even though it hasn't had much loving since Abyssea, but may have something at vanafest), and the other, pray to god enough people hop onto 2.0.


I think expansion for XIV would be way more justified than for XI. I get the logic that you support the game with a large playerbase, but now is the time for XIV. There are many people who have just flat out given up and wouldn't even consider XIV at this point. For the rest willing to allow it another chance(myself included), 2.0 will be the measuring stick for which to base SE's MMO future on. If they **** this up, no one will even look at another announcement for an SE MMO in the future.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#27 Jun 21 2012 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Also, judging by the official forums, people who have stuck it out since day 1 are crazy defensive about this game. They seem to want to have it become a niche game. It's almost a ***** you, you didn't enjoy it, I did, don't come back.


Jerks like that are in every group, but while vocal, I don't believe they represent the majority of players. According to the most recent player poll, most FFXIV players don't even post in the official forums on a regular basis. Besides, the "I've been here since alpha" types aren't nearly as important as they think they are, so take what they say with a grain of salt. The game needs new players to succeed and be profitable, and there's no indication Yoshi's ever lost sight of that.
#28 Jun 21 2012 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Yep. Now I`m not really docile either, but the official forum is just toxic waste.
Full of self-proclaimed "hero veterans of the first hour", who luckily are nice
enough to pay for the development of my (2.0) game. ^.-/

I mean, it`s not that I don`t understand them. Basically they have heard the
same complaints from newcomer for 2 years now; that`s something you get
fed up with. The problem is just that for 2 years, those newcomers have
been right.

Edited, Jun 21st 2012 5:03pm by Rinsui
#29 Jun 21 2012 at 3:06 PM Rating: Default
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I hardly think they are the monority <.<



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#30 Jun 21 2012 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui is just full of hate and bile as usual.

The official boards have a many critics as they have fans.
FFXIV needs to stand on it's own merits and that's a tall order to fill after it's already failed once. But those who have been won over by the passion and dedication of Yoshi-P and the current FFXIV crew are burnt out on the constant hatred and skepticism Risui personifies here in Zam.

Yet, those who are skeptic are equally tired of blind defense of mechanics that are clearly annoying everyone, like the RNG drop rate or the imbalance of ranged vs melee. Or the lack of long term goals (which people for some odd reason what to champion as 'grinding'. Can we really find a better name for this, please?)

Do people deserve to be skeptical? **** yes. SE has earned that blemish and they have to work to clean it off.
Do we need to be reminded every other post on every page of every thread? No, we don't.
But we DO need to address glaring issues from both perspectives and find fair compromises that accommodation a wide variety of players - a middle ground to have a game that works that way is the best way the game can move forward.

But it's a handfull of people (A good number of which I can pretty much call out by name.) Who have to turn every subject into a polarizing debate. Be it Hardcore vs Casual, Fanboi vs Hater, White Knights vs Black Knights. It's ********* The truth is always in the middle but people seemed so goddamned concerned with sensationalizing it and hating each other back and forth that it's annoying to no end.

But to blame one camp or the other for the problems the official boards have? That's flat out dumb.

If you can sift through the arguments, the offical boards can be a good place to get info an opinion, beyond just raw stats. It's a good place to ask for things you'd only really know through experience. Like how a Tortoiseshell Scale Mail is more likely to show up with double Piety Melds for an affordable price, because they have a higher success rate due to level difference.

So no, it's not a complete cesspool, and defiantly is no worse than the Zam Boards were for FFXI. Reason why these boards are so peaceable, honestly, is that they're sadly too quiet.

But as usual, blind forum rivalry will always prevail over common sense.
#31FilthMcNasty, Posted: Jun 21 2012 at 6:22 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why is it that anyone who has an objective point of view of this game or things related to it is hate and bile, doom and gloom, ect.?
#32 Jun 21 2012 at 10:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Hm, Hyrist. I think you`re mixing up a few things here. To your eyes, I may apperar as pretty insistent and annoyingly persistent about the flaws I perceive in (current) FFXIV; but that in now way means I`d deny its potential. Yoshida had managed to stride quite a few paces into the right direction during the last months, and I have to give him merit for that. Because he deserves it.

What neither he nor SE deserves is blind faith. Although he has brough many improvements to the game already, he is not overly fast (1 1/2 years is a lot of time), and recently there are too many instances where the ugly head of Tanaka seems to laugh in the background. The excessive use of RNG and countless repetition is nothing I want to see in 2.0, and seeing some guys like that Elexia / Starlord / Chardrizard / Jenestia f*ckheads defending its "merits" and "usefulness" and "necessity" makes me cringe in pain, because I know that if developers get even the remote impression that this type of content is acceptable in 2012 for more than a filler, the light on the end of the 2-year tunnel may turn out to be nothing but a firefly who`s fallen into a bottomless pit indeed.

Now if it soothes your pains: I still had 5000 crysta from my initial leap of faith lying around which, in Japan at least, are non-refundable and have a 2-year date of expiry. Rather than donating those 5000 yen to SE for driving me away from the game, I decided to re-sub just in time for the legacy campaign and haunt the official forums once more. They need some counterbalance anyway. See you on the official forums!! ^u^/

P.S.:
Quote:
Do we need to be reminded every other post on every page of every thread? No, we don't.Yes we do.
Until the problem is solved. Because vague promises for the distant future tend to be forgotten. Even by Yoshi, the savior.

P.S.II:
Gods forfend! I forgot to include that Nero guy in the list of f*ckheads. Recently he claimed that only the NA forum is "overly whiny". Clearly, that guy speaks not a word of Japanese, German or French, because the general dissatisfaction with RNG and repetiveness is the same all around the world.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 1:16am by Rinsui
#33 Jun 22 2012 at 3:38 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
Rinsui is just full of hate and bile as usual.
The official boards have a many critics as they have fans.
FFXIV needs to stand on it's own merits and that's a tall order to fill after it's already failed once. But those who have been won over by the passion and dedication of Yoshi-P and the current FFXIV crew are burnt out on the constant hatred and skepticism Risui personifies here in Zam.

Why is it that anyone who has an objective point of view of this game or things related to it is hate and bile, doom and gloom, ect.?


Maybe because these people are known for his endless rants about the game and the company that released it? Mind that a person loses his her image of being objective when he or she acts like an authority on FFXIV but cannot post three sentences in a row without questioning or downright ridiculing a certain development, downplay improvements, emphasize the existing negative elements and/or make a comparison with some other game that has been more succesful. Same thing happens when all their posts are packed with should have's and Iwill never's.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Rin and I among a few others are perhaps the toughest critics here on these boards, but it wouldn't take me longer than 5 minutes to find quotes from both of us along the same lines as yours about the dedication of Yoshi. It's pretty much what keeps us interested at all in XIV at this point. There isn't anything wrong with being skeptic when you've been dealt a poor product, lied to about it and then asked to pay for it despite the fact that they know it isn't up to standard.

Saying that people who are considering this are full of hatred, trolls, naysayers or anything else along those lines only fans the flames...


There is a difference between healthy skepticism and hardcore skepticism, between "Not sure, let's see how things will turn out" and "this is NEVER going to work, this WILL fail!!! I hope it won't, but it WILL!!!".

Btw, there is also a difference between your posts and the ones coming from Rinsui. When I read Rinsui's posts, regardless of whether I agree with it or not, i get the feeling that they are written by a disappointed but objective FFXIV player. Whenever I bump into one of yours, I see a post made by someone who is here for two reasons: discourage current and potential players and win discussions.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 5:39am by MrMissile
#34 Jun 22 2012 at 4:07 AM Rating: Default
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You forget that they where right........ and they been right..... and who knows maybe they will be right again ?
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#35 Jun 22 2012 at 5:22 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

Why is it that anyone who has an objective point of view of this game or things related to it is hate and bile, doom and gloom, ect.?

Fact check - The viewpoint is not objective, it is subjective based off of previous negative experiences.

Once you've been there and had an experience, you cannot be 'objective'. You're not pulling yourself away from yourself at that point, you're simply allowing a different aspect of your own perspective to control your views.

You are not being a 'tough critic' as really you haven't much to critique. That's the other side of 'being blind' is that you see only what you want, that works for those who genuinely have no trust or enjoyment in the game at all as well. The pendulum swings both ways.

Skeptic is the appropriate term to use, not 'critic.' You're a critic of 1.0 (And up until the point you quit.) But once you divide yourself from that experience you lose credentials. - That what makes MMOs a beast to review, because by their nature they're constantly changing.

The people on the official boards are fans and critics, sometimes interchangeably, but the uniting factor among them is that they are also players. And any given time, someone can make a claim in those boards, and someone else can log in to compare, validate, discliam, etc. Those experiences.

Here, we have Skeptics on the outside watching conversation and vids about the game and stroking their chin and speculating.

It's not a matter of 'class', it's a matter of availability. Non-players are not lessers, but they're not accurate critics either.
#36 Jun 22 2012 at 5:38 AM Rating: Decent
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MrMissile,
I think part of what you experience as overboarding bitterness stems from the fear that developers might get the impression that all is fine and dandy, they are completely on the right track, and tens of thousands of old and new players are just withholding their subscriptions because they do not want to start over yet again with 2.0. Because that`s what some weirdos on the official forums seem to believe.

I think even constant naysayers have an important function in a healthy MMO community; while irritating at best and annoying at worst, such pessimist prophets of doom and gloom point out alternatives and (sometimes admittedly minor) flaws that tend to be overlooked or forgotten while people are at least moderately happy on the whole. People may have become accustomed to the second-best solution of cybernetically enhanced super-retainers instead of a propper AH, I still consider them a comparatively stinking pile of ****.

P.S.: I do not think that a "heckler" (as I was called not too long ago) could actually keep a really interested newcomer from trying out the game. But thank you for attributing that kind of power to me. ^.^
#37 Jun 22 2012 at 5:48 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
You forget that they where right........ and they been right..... and who knows maybe they will be right again ?


Right about the crappiness of the release? I think only a few people will dispute that.

You know what the problem is, Ostia? Not the fact that some people were right about the obvous things, things so obvious most people don't even mention twice. No, it's repeating the same story over and over again like a mantra.

But was Filth right when he claimed that we could stick a fork in FFXIV? That 2.0 will be a failure too because SE will be too late? You know, in an earlier post you wrote that you're enjoying yourself...well, if Filth's predictions would have been spot on you would not be even playing FFXIV anymore.

How 'bout that?

And then we have the taste-thing: it cannot be right or wrong. What I think is boring could be exciting to you and vice versa. And then we have the needless comparisons... like comparing sales figures of FFXIV with its crappy release (here...said it twice, so I am right twice now, correct?) a Star Wars game with its world famous title, millions of fans and its marketing machine.

I see posts almost designed to talk people out of playing. No wonder quite a number of people - by no means fanboys! - use terms like trolling and hating. In a social environment people like that would be abandoned and in a professional environment they would be fired. And not because they are "right', no, it's because of their intentions.

It's as simple as that. People like that need help.
#38 Jun 22 2012 at 5:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:


P.S.: I do not think that a "heckler" (as I was called not too long ago) could actually keep a really interested newcomer from trying out the game. But thank you for attributing that kind of power to me. ^.^


I didn't.
#39 Jun 22 2012 at 5:53 AM Rating: Default
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I`m completely looking forward to the day when we can all look back on this kind of discussion,
down a mug of Gridanian ("Virgin`s Milk") Ale together and laugh about the bad old days.
#40 Jun 22 2012 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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I remember The Last Remnant. A good, interesting game, hampered down by a poorly utalized engine.

Yes, there was still some issues with the cheesy dialogue and hammy lines, but there was great enjoyment to be had in the battle system, and I had it. Honestly I wish they would go back and make another 'Last Remnant' game and solve the issues it had and expanded upon it more.

This is the same sort of feeling I got with FFXIV, except I didn't overlook the issue, I was upset by it. Still, I had hoped they would take the time to fix the issues and they are. That's a pretty big thing in the MMO world, where games are notorious for crashing, burning and going either Free to Play or closing up shop.

There is something in *********** that rekindles that old flame of passion that I've long associated with Final Fantasy games. I can see it in the letters that he's a long time Final Fantasy fan like I am - from the players perspective. That kept me going, but if it wasn't supported by the changes I saw the game come into while they are working on the 2.0 engine (Affectionately being dubbed the Phoenix engine by the fans.) - I don't think I would have stuck around.

So it's not blind faith. It's more hope being granted from a mix of being able to relate with the main producer, and

Quote:
Now if it soothes your pains: I still had 5000 crysta from my initial leap of faith lying around which, in Japan at least, are non-refundable and have a 2-year date of expiry. Rather than donating those 5000 yen to SE for driving me away from the game, I decided to re-sub just in time for the legacy campaign and haunt the official forums once more. They need some counterbalance anyway. See you on the official forums!! ^u^/


Do you have a character on Excalibur by chance? Would love to cause some trouble with ya. As you are registered, you might as well pack up the levels/gil, whatever you can stand doing for meanwhile.

I've pretty much got my Lancer geared as best I'm going to get without huge investments (I.E. finding a Primal static or going after Darklight gear.) So for me it's stocking up on gil and levels while doing the Grand Company story-line and runs with my LS when available to.
#41 Jun 22 2012 at 6:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:

Why is it that anyone who has an objective point of view of this game or things related to it is hate and bile, doom and gloom, ect.?

Fact check - The viewpoint is not objective, it is subjective based off of previous negative experiences.

Once you've been there and had an experience, you cannot be 'objective'. You're not pulling yourself away from yourself at that point, you're simply allowing a different aspect of your own perspective to control your views.

It's completely possible to be critical without being biased because you had a bad experience. You're never pulling yourself away from yourself, you remove yourself from the experience. If you think some experience is negative, you remove yourself from that experience for perspective.

I hate waiting in line. If I had to wait in a line for 5 minutes and you asked me about the experience while I was standing in line, I'd tell you it sucks. If you asked me after I got whatever the **** I was waiting for how I felt about the experience, I'd tell you it wasn't a big deal.

I played XIV for quite a while. If you were counting from the time I started testing alpha(nearly 5 months prior to launch) up to when I stopped playing a little while back, I've been playing through roughly the same time as someone who started at launch. You're telling me that my opinion isn't accurate... fact check what?
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#42 Jun 22 2012 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Why is it that anyone who has an objective point of view of this game or things related to it is hate and bile, doom and gloom, ect.?


Hmm.. Let's see.. What was the original topic in this thread?

Quote:
I miss the communal based game I love to play. Any advice would be great!! One more thing, do people party in XIV or is it just more soloing??


but somehow 2 very vocal users who, we all know, have negative opinions of the game, have derailed it to discuss, once again, what they don't like.

Where else have I see this before...

Oh right, here:

Gamespy: Have we simply outgrown the mmorpg?

and here:

To play or not to play (or wait for 2.0)

here:

Contemplating FFXIV

here:

2.0 Screenshots.

Oh, and here:

To play or not to play?

And here too, even though it wasn't derailed until page 2:

Relic Weapon Revival (06/06/2012)

It's REALLY hard to believe someone is objective when they derail every topic to discuss the same hatred for the game.

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#43 Jun 22 2012 at 7:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

It's completely possible to be critical without being biased because you had a bad experience. You're never pulling yourself away from yourself, you remove yourself from the experience. If you think some experience is negative, you remove yourself from that experience for perspective.

I hate waiting in line. If I had to wait in a line for 5 minutes and you asked me about the experience while I was standing in line, I'd tell you it sucks. If you asked me after I got whatever the **** I was waiting for how I felt about the experience, I'd tell you it wasn't a big deal.

I played XIV for quite a while. If you were counting from the time I started testing alpha(nearly 5 months prior to launch) up to when I stopped playing a little while back, I've been playing through roughly the same time as someone who started at launch. You're telling me that my opinion isn't accurate... fact check what?

Fact check you, again.

There's a flaw in your logic.

Say you did that classic waiting in line, then left.

After you left, they gave everyone waiting in line drinks, snacks and entertainment. And you're still writing about the bare-bones, sit and do nothing experience you had.

YOUR experience of waiting in line is far different now than those currently waiting in line.
Now say you go back, they've ran out of drinks and it's blistering hot outside.
Or even more accurate, you come back and none of the drinks are the flavor you like.
and so on and so forth. These experiences color your perception of the game.

The crux of being either critical or objective in an MMO field is that it is constantly shifting. The trick is to remain objective while inside. Which means you have to emotionally separate yourself form the experience. Not physically separate yourself from the experience. Or at least keep your crtitism properly time-stamped.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, that's the argument in a test tube.

The argument in context, Filth, is that you and Rinsui have a long way to go before you can argue that any of your points are objective. You lace your observations with very personal terms.

And that would be a moot point if you weren't using the veil of objectivity to make your argument seem more valid than those who disagree with you. Games like these are designed to be a subjective experience. You're supposed to get emotionally involved. What SE has to do is to make sure that sort of positive engagement can work for a broader audience, and while some can be drawn in by the enthusiasm of the producer and the current changes on hand, there are those who are not as easily delighted.

That doesn't make either of these groupings superior to the other ,but it does mean SE has to work harder for the latter part, and acknowledge that they can't get all of them.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 10:05am by Hyrist
#44 Jun 22 2012 at 8:07 AM Rating: Default
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@Losicool
I think it's not surprising that the same users post in almost every
thread when the forum itself consists of, like, 7 active users...

And btw: the first critical point in this thread was by Montsegurne...
phcreep. Filth possibly chimed in because he knew the tune and
wanted to party up because even heckling gets boring solo, and
me, well... I never pass up on an opportunity to annoy thin-skinned
pansies.

@Hyrist
Thank you for the kind invitation. I just guess I will be patient a
little more and wait until 2.0 myself. I am already dragging around
a 60 mil heavy "legacy" character on Aegis, and I would feel
bad to delete even more of those poor guys once 2.0 hits!

And btw: Yes, The Last Remnant was way better than its reviews;
at least the PC version was. Not perfect, but innovative in a positive
sense. For some strange reasons some SE gems just get almost
overlooked by the mass media. Vagrant Story is another example.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 10:17am by Rinsui
#45 Jun 22 2012 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Also, judging by the official forums, people who have stuck it out since day 1 are crazy defensive about this game. They seem to want to have it become a niche game. It's almost a ***** you, you didn't enjoy it, I did, don't come back. I think this will be the biggest hurdle for 2.0, is having the current players accept the fact that new players will want to join new servers with no experienced players and have their own economy. SE should really just take everyone's gil away at the start of 2.0, but people feel they worked too hard...getting hand outs from simple leves...realllly hard.

The best thing to do would be to wipe everyone's data period, but then you'll get aggro from those who spent 3 hours power leveling all their jobs to 50.


A wipe WILL NOT happen. I've said it many time and I'll say it many times again. Yoshi-p has stated numerous times in several interviews that he will not wipe peoples characters. If you feel like you'll be too far behind players who have been playing for 2 years then this game simply isn't for you. It's as simple as that. Personally, I find it to be a very silly reason to not play a game, but then again, people think it's silly for me to have payed money to continue playing ffxiv. I'm willing to agree to disagree. Players are willing to help new players out. We are not willing to give them handouts. If they have questions, just like on forums, we expect them to do some research and try to find the answer themselves. If they still cannot find the answer, then they are free to ask as many questions as they need to. Most LS are full of the players who have been there since day one. We do not want to invest time and money into teaching new players when chances are they will leave a month later. My earlier post along with another earlier in the thread explained this in better detail.

When it comes to the official forums, I can certainly understand that people may not want someone there if they are only flaming and just overall causing arguments. It would be like a soccer, football for those of you in europe, fan going into a bar with supporters from the opposing team and then spouting on and on about how awsome your team is and how you dislike theirs. Consider the bar scene with the soccer hooligans in Eurotrip.

Also on the comment about aggro from those who spent 3 hours power leveling all their jobs to 50, I understand this is a vast understatement and that you were just trying to make a point, but I still have to find this rather insulting. Why do you think everybody has powerleveled? Most players in the game leveled their jobs to 50 the correct way. A very small portion of the players have PLed their jobs to 50. Those who did PL are the ones who have left in a month. Most of them aren't around anymore. For those who did get a PL that are still around are most likely friends with other people in the game and joined the game to play with them. They got the PL so that they can play together. I've leveled my jobs the correct way since launch day. Why would you want to take that time and energy I spent away from me because you feel like you've been left behind? I'm curious Montsegurnephcreep, do you play the game currently or have you played it for an extended length of time? I may be wrong, but I find that most of the people who believe PLing is in overabundance and the main way people level their jobs don't know jack about how things really play out. It's like how kids in a neighborhood might have a single creepy house with an old lady that lives by herself and doesn't associate with anybody. They'll make up lots of different stories about what they think goes on in there, but they are just stories. She may very well be the nicest old lady ever.

/end rant.
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#46 Jun 22 2012 at 8:16 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
I think it's not surprising that the same users post in almost every
thread when the forum itself consists of, like, 7 active users...

@Hyrist
Thank you for the kind invitation. I just guess I will be patient a
little more and wait until 2.0 myself. I am already dragging around
a 60 mil heavy "legacy" character on Aegis, and I would feel
bad to delete even more of those poor guys once 2.0 hits!

And btw: Yes, The Last Remnant was way better than its reviews;
at least the PC version was. Not perfect, but innovative in a positive
sense. For some strange reasons some SE gems just get almost
overlooked by the mass media. Vagrant Story is another example.



There's a group of 7 heavy regulars that post in every thread, but there is good variety there if you look for it. Some people would rather just post once or twice in a tread and be done with it. Others, like to argue.

I don't blame you for wanting to hold onto your character. That said, I'd recommend still that if you can, sample some of the plot that's going on. It's setting up for some heavy mind-effing if I've got my predictions right. (You can keep touch of the plot via You Tube, I'm not telling you to play. Though it doesn't hurt to poke your head in and look around awhile. I heard that Aegis is pretty active.)

Once 2.0 Hits and we've both got Legacy status, we can roll characters on whatever server we want and chill. (Or just meet up cross-server for Raids and events thanks to Content Finder.) Looking at the gameplay we have now, I think people's fears about 2.0 will be eased for the most part once we start participating in Beta.
#47 Jun 22 2012 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Hm, yes, in principle you are right. People keep claiming that the feel of the game is beginning to
change, and it sure wouldn't hurt to give it a try myself now; I already re-subscribed anyway...

Hmm. You mean like "actually play the game rather than badmouthing it"? What a... hillarious
notion! Stop disturbing my peaceful grudge with reason.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 10:33am by Rinsui
#48 Jun 22 2012 at 8:26 AM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
I think it's not surprising that the same users post in almost every
thread when the forum itself consists of, like, 7 active users...

@Hyrist
Thank you for the kind invitation. I just guess I will be patient a
little more and wait until 2.0 myself. I am already dragging around
a 60 mil heavy "legacy" character on Aegis, and I would feel
bad to delete even more of those poor guys once 2.0 hits!

And btw: Yes, The Last Remnant was way better than its reviews;
at least the PC version was. Not perfect, but innovative in a positive
sense. For some strange reasons some SE gems just get almost
overlooked by the mass media. Vagrant Story is another example.



There's a group of 7 heavy regulars that post in every thread, but there is good variety there if you look for it. Some people would rather just post once or twice in a tread and be done with it. Others, like to argue.

I don't blame you for wanting to hold onto your character. That said, I'd recommend still that if you can, sample some of the plot that's going on. It's setting up for some heavy mind-effing if I've got my predictions right. (You can keep touch of the plot via You Tube, I'm not telling you to play. Though it doesn't hurt to poke your head in and look around awhile. I heard that Aegis is pretty active.)

Once 2.0 Hits and we've both got Legacy status, we can roll characters on whatever server we want and chill. (Or just meet up cross-server for Raids and events thanks to Content Finder.) Looking at the gameplay we have now, I think people's fears about 2.0 will be eased for the most part once we start participating in Beta.


Yeah so apparently not everyone playing now will be able to join beta. This is unconfirmed and I'm just saying what I was told by an LS mate. I have no idea where he obtained his info. From what I'm told, legacy status wont guarantee you a place in the beta. It will help you get into it faster as they keep adding more and more players. I'm hoping this is just non-sense.
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#49 Jun 22 2012 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Hm, yes, in principle you are right. People keep claiming that the feel of the game is beginning to
change, and it sure wouldn't hurt to give it a try myself now; I already re-subscribed anyway...

Hmm. You mean like "actually play the game rather than badmouthing it"? What a... hillarious
notion! Stop disturbing my peaceful grudge with reason.


You're aware that your expectations are not met at this time and that you're just killing time till 2.0. That makes the whole thing rather liberating, just go and have fun where you can.

swisa wrote:

Yeah so apparently not everyone playing now will be able to join beta. This is unconfirmed and I'm just saying what I was told by an LS mate. I have no idea where he obtained his info. From what I'm told, legacy status wont guarantee you a place in the beta. It will help you get into it faster as they keep adding more and more players. I'm hoping this is just non-sense.



Not sure which interview, but Yoshida said it himself he would like to prioritize those with currently active subscriptions to get into the beta first. So if you're Legacy and are active when they suspend services on the 1.xx system, you probably got a good shot at getting into Beta.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 10:37am by Hyrist
#50 Jun 22 2012 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Not sure which interview, but Yoshida said it himself he would like to prioritize those with currently active subscriptions to get into the beta first. So if you're Legacy and are active when they suspend services on the 1.xx system, you probably got a good shot at getting into Beta.


GE: Do you have any ideas yet on how will people get into beta?

Yoshida: We decided not to tie it directly to the legacy campaign, but we want to prioritize getting the current players that are playing now into beta.
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#51 Jun 22 2012 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
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So not so much legacy and more having an active subscription.
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