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Since FFXIV is trying to appeal to WOW players.Follow

#1 Jun 22 2012 at 4:35 AM Rating: Default
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..are the XIV players ready for what this actually entails?

I played Rift, Tera, SWTOR and a few other games that directly appealed to and attracted WOW palyers. As such I have some experience with them as a group, and not in a positive way. They are incredibly demanding and critical and will become very abusive if they don't think the new game lives upto their expectations from the amount of content etc that WOW offers.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/06/07/e3-2012-the-plan-for-final-fantasy-xiv-on-playstation-3

Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 1:10pm by Runespider
#2 Jun 22 2012 at 5:09 AM Rating: Good
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Have to love the painting with a gigantic brush.

1. Poster assumes all WoW Players are the same.
2. Poster assumes that just because Yoshi likes Blizzard, that he's targeting Blizzard's audiance.
3. Poster assumes 'WoW Players' are the least bit interested in FFXIV even after 2.0.

There are some people who hate games simply because of the country they come from. I should know because my brother mainly came from WoW and he could never retain interest in 11. (And if you think the original flood of FFXIV players were not critical and abusive when this game initially failed, you're wrong.) Trolls come and Trolls go, regardless of what game they play or come from.

So no, we are not 'prepared for the flood of WoW players coming to FFXIV.' cause it won't happen. What we will likely get is an attraction of players from a wide deversity of games, many of which have tried WoW, SWTOR, etc and didn't find a home with it - or have just played their fill. And you're never really 'prepared' for them. There's a culture shock, and you adapt.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 7:10am by Hyrist
#3 Jun 22 2012 at 5:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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@OP
So you assume there will be an onslaught of hundreds of thousands of WoW players that will not move to Gw2 but are desperate to give FFXIV yet another try? That, I doubt.

I think that FFXIV may, in time, attract many players from other games who are in search of something "different" in atmosphere. At least that`s what I hope for.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 7:44am by Rinsui
#4 Jun 22 2012 at 6:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Runespider wrote:
..are the XIV players ready for what this actually entails?


Happy Friday? I really want to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Assuming you're being serious, what the **** would make you think WoW players would leave for XIV? Think about that, but not for too long as your head may explode from the sheer force of the ensuing facepalm deserved for formulating such a stupid idea.

The article you linked, if you'd bothered to read it, simply quotes Yoshi as saying they'll be using ideas from the WoW interface in XIV. What do you have against a clean and intuitive interface? This is quite possibly the dumbest thread I've read on this forum in two days.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#5 Jun 22 2012 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
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I believe the article is speaking about controls & interfaces. He is saying to expect the normal standard from which WoW has set. To expect the traditional tab target, hotbar, wasd layout, group finder, etc. Don't expect to see free targeting or something you haven't seen in an mmo before. Where as before Tanaka went the original route with the power gauge, active/passive mode, marketwards, battle regimens, sandboxy free company direction & DoL/DoH being more significant than a side hobby. Whether original or standard is better, that decision is up to the individual.

If Yoshi did mean more than controls & interfaces or difficult raids being borrowed from WoW. Then XIV is dead no matter what 2.0 looks like. I think WoW players are ready to leave WoW. It is just that every mmo either does something original subpar or copies WoW so much. They go try the game out & find that the more polished mmos are more of the same but with far less content & responsiveness.

If Yoshi's aim is to make the game somewhat profitable soon. Then standardization is the safest way to get the game back on it's feet. But any mmo that expects to approach WoWish success is going to have to do something original & polished while oozing out content. The direction Yoshi has taken seems realistic & in his companies best interest imo. Because there is no guarantee SE could attempt something original, polished, and loved. A second flop would probably get the game canned or made f2p indefinitely.

My main & only concern for XIV's future is an overuse of instances & long term goal progression. The world doesn't have to be seamless but Yoshi should aim to go open world at every avenue possible. The only time I feel instances are great is raids, mog houses or personal story. If he likes standard, open world is the new standard. If he wants to attract console users just look at what games have come out lately. RDR, GTA, skyrim, xenoblade, saints row, dragons dogma, the souls series, etc, etc.

Added this cause I wanted to comment on GW2. Guild Wars 2 is the mmo taking conventions or tropes associated with mmos & turning them upside down. Some will love this & some will hate it. The people who prefer hardcore treadmills & believe the real game don't begin till level cap are going to feel like going back to their bread and butter mmo. That's ok though. GW2 only needs you to purchase the box for them to be profitable. Imo I believe that GW2 is going to set the bar for what fun leveling should mean in an mmo. The verdict has yet to be seen. But if it sells more than GW1, many casual mmoers are going to begin questioning the subscription model more than they do now.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 11:48am by sandpark

Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 11:49am by sandpark
#6 Jun 22 2012 at 10:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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sandpark wrote:
GW2 only needs you to purchase the box for them to be profitable.

And the cash-shops are just "extra fun," then!
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#7 Jun 22 2012 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
sandpark wrote:
GW2 only needs you to purchase the box for them to be profitable.

And the cash-shops are just "extra fun," then!

I think I picked up sarcasm? GW2 is doing cash shop the right way. They have a track record of cosmetic & optional purchases only aka fluff. Just because the usual cash shop is designed to be greedy & forced in other mmos, doesn't mean that is the only way. If this is true then the player is getting the best affordable point of entry to try out an mmo. Whether we agree or not, the majority of players don't want to fork out 100 bucks or more to try out a game over the course of three to six months.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 12:13pm by sandpark
#8 Jun 22 2012 at 10:25 AM Rating: Default
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Anyways, I'm not going to start debating on why I think GW2 is great. I can afford to pay 1-2 subscription fees. I want XIV to succeed so I can get all my friends to sub to it.
#9 Jun 22 2012 at 11:09 AM Rating: Default
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Wow players bail on it at every new launch, they quickly go back to wow within the first month or two, happens every single time to every new MMO.

This wasn't a bash/glory post it was simply asking if the players are ready for a...lets say non FF group of players coming into their game and the change that will follow. Even if it's not that many it will still cause a rather large shock to the legacy players.

I wasn't trying to make a point about success or failure, just something I thought about when I read "Yoshida and team want those familiar with World of Warcraft to be able to transition into Final Fantasy XIV without a lot of hassle" and my experience with WoW players on other games.

I suppose the first reply answered it though.

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There's a culture shock, and you adapt.
#10 Jun 22 2012 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent
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All they've said is that when it comes to controls and interface, they were shooting for the industry standard, which is WoW. Fine by me.
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#11 Jun 22 2012 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Runespider wrote:


This wasn't a bash/glory post it was simply asking if the players are ready for a...lets say non FF group of players coming into their game and the change that will follow. Even if it's not that many it will still cause a rather large shock to the legacy players.


Non-ff group?

"Their" game?

Good grief, just stop.
#12 Jun 22 2012 at 11:43 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:

Non-ff group?

"Their" game?

Good grief, just stop.


So legacy players don't consider this their game? FFXI players sure consider FFXI as their game.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 1:44pm by Runespider
#13 Jun 22 2012 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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Speaking as a Legacy Player. No, I don't beleive FFXIV is 'My' game.

There are things I will most assuredly disagree with you on what we feel is best for the game.

But I take ownership of naught but my experiences in the game.

If anything I encourage a wide variety of people in this game and hopefully a game large enough to encompass it. Final Fantasy is about tales to be embraced and shared, even if we're just reciting tales of our own personal experiences with it.
#14 Jun 22 2012 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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Runespider wrote:
Quote:

Non-ff group?

"Their" game?

Good grief, just stop.


So legacy players don't consider this their game? FFXI players sure consider FFXI as their game.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 1:44pm by Runespider


You seem like the exact type of player you described. "We" have 12k subscribers. The bar is low, "we'll" take anyone. Well... not you, but..
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#15 Jun 22 2012 at 12:22 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
You seem like the exact type of player you described. "We" have 12k subscribers. The bar is low, "we'll" take anyone. Well... not you, but..


XD you have very little to worry about on that front :p

At least not now FFXI is getting a new expansion anyway.



Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 2:31pm by Runespider
#16 Jun 22 2012 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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Ze vy~yy are yoo 'ere?
#17 Jun 22 2012 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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Runespider wrote:
Quote:
You seem like the exact type of player you described. "We" have 12k subscribers. The bar is low, "we'll" take anyone. Well... not you, but..


XD you have very little to worry about on that front :p

At least not now FFXI is getting a new expansion anyway.



Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 2:31pm by Runespider


Ahh yes... more Voidwatch type events and zones with minimal reasons to actually go into them.

You're more than welcome to enjoy that. The past year of FFXI watching has shown that Tanaka and co. haven't learned a damned thing from their players.

Ever.
#18 Jun 22 2012 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Well the new FFXI expansion is adding some new areas which look cool, anyone that liked FFXI should check it out. Full details being released tomorow!
#19 Jun 22 2012 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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Runespider wrote:
Well the new FFXI expansion is adding some new areas which look cool, anyone that liked FFXI should check it out. Full details being released tomorow!


You are assuming FF players are like WoW players... many XI players burned the bridge to go back long ago (my self included). There is no going back for many that left XI. As well as a legacy member i do not feel XIV is my game, I stay with the game because of the people i know... Not because of some misplaced sense of ownership.
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#20 Jun 22 2012 at 4:39 PM Rating: Default
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Runespider wrote:
Well the new FFXI expansion is adding some new areas which look cool, anyone that liked FFXI should check it out. Full details being released tomorow!


Unless you have proof, that's all speculation. It's assumed that since SE secured a trademark for a name that has been mentioned in XI that there will be an expansion, but no one knows if/when details will be released.
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#21 Jun 22 2012 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
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I find this type of post just "Dumb!" Because the notion of FFXIV was that it was not gonna be as hardcore and more casual friendly than FFXI! From the gate go the game was meant to target Casuals! The game failed to deliver on almost every point and it dint draw many casuals to it because of it's horrible release, but those that it did draw and stayed where run off by the "FFXI-Hardcore Crowd"

Oh you dont like the excellent idea of market wards ala 1650 ? Go back to wow!

Oh you dont like doing nothing but killing dodos ? Go back to wow!

You said What? That this game garbage ? It's people like you that cant appreciate a true MMO, GO BACK TO WOW!

Seriously tho, they need to draw people from wow, i am not saying 100%, but a 5% would be good, unless you think that the current player base is more than enough to sustain this game :/

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#22 Jun 22 2012 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
Seriously tho, they need to draw people from wow, i am not saying 100%, but a 5% would be good, unless you think that the current player base is more than enough to sustain this game :/


5% of WoW's playerbase is half a million subs which is about what XI had at it's peak...
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#23 Jun 22 2012 at 8:05 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Seriously tho, they need to draw people from wow, i am not saying 100%, but a 5% would be good, unless you think that the current player base is more than enough to sustain this game :/


5% of WoW's playerbase is half a million subs which is about what XI had at it's peak...


And XI lasted a decade and going, also Swotor all along said that with 500k they could make their money up, FFXIV development was a joke compared to everyother MMO out there, so 500K on FFXIV should be profitable, tho i doubt they can reach those numbers.
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#24 Jun 23 2012 at 12:35 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Runespider wrote:
Well the new FFXI expansion is adding some new areas which look cool, anyone that liked FFXI should check it out. Full details being released tomorow!


Unless you have proof, that's all speculation. It's assumed that since SE secured a trademark for a name that has been mentioned in XI that there will be an expansion, but no one knows if/when details will be released.


http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/adoulin/index.html
#25 Jun 23 2012 at 1:45 AM Rating: Default
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Runespider wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Runespider wrote:
Well the new FFXI expansion is adding some new areas which look cool, anyone that liked FFXI should check it out. Full details being released tomorow!


Unless you have proof, that's all speculation. It's assumed that since SE secured a trademark for a name that has been mentioned in XI that there will be an expansion, but no one knows if/when details will be released.


http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/adoulin/index.html

This website wasn't up when you made your post. Anyway, does this mean that both FFXI and FFXIV are going to steal WoW players from each other now? Smiley: tongue
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#26 Jun 23 2012 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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So far, it means a lot of people who quit XI a few years back are suddenly resubbing. My Facebook friends list is all lit up with this news. "Woot, I'm coming back right now!" is the most common refrain.

So, I'm not sure where XI is stealing them from - actually, a lot of them had quit MMOs entirely due to real life, as far as I had known.
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#27 Jun 23 2012 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
So far, it means a lot of people who quit XI a few years back are suddenly resubbing. My Facebook friends list is all lit up with this news. "Woot, I'm coming back right now!" is the most common refrain.

So, I'm not sure where XI is stealing them from - actually, a lot of them had quit MMOs entirely due to real life, as far as I had known.

This seems easy to answer. There are 3 camps of mmorpg players.
1. The WoW/Rift type mmo audience
2. The EQ/XI type mmo audience
3. The want to see something different audience GW2/Tera

There is still an audience for the EQ/XI type. XI has become casual enough leveling wise for people who want to do endgame soon. It has almost a decade worth of content updates. XI arguably is one of the best mmos in terms of story. I think it has the best story of any FF prior. It just has long intervals between story segments. Right now, no game company seems to be thinking to create a new EQ/XI type mmo. So this audience is revisiting the original to try & rekindle an old flame.
#28 Jun 23 2012 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Runespider wrote:
[Since FFXIV is trying to appeal to WOW players] are the XIV players ready for what this actually entails?


You mean proper mouse/keyboard controls, an intuitively efficient UI, responsive real-time action with unnoticeable lag, and the ability to design and use custom mods?

It can't arrive soon enough...
#29 Jun 23 2012 at 8:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
Runespider wrote:
[Since FFXIV is trying to appeal to WOW players] are the XIV players ready for what this actually entails?


You mean proper mouse/keyboard controls, an intuitively efficient UI, responsive real-time action with unnoticeable lag, and the ability to design and use custom mods?

It can't arrive soon enough...


While I'm not saying that it necessarily will, appealing to "WoW players" (depending upon how one perceives that group) can also entail other, less savoury modifications to the game. World of Warcraft is more than just menus and mouse control, after all... :x
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#30 Jun 23 2012 at 8:52 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
While I'm not saying that it necessarily will, appealing to "WoW players" (depending upon how one perceives that group) can also entail other, less savoury modifications to the game. World of Warcraft is more than just menus and mouse control, after all... :x


Or you could just go and read the actual interview and put everything in context...

Yoshida wrote:
We believe that having a polished, easy-to-use, stress-free interface is one of the most important things, so we’re going to spend up to the last minute polishing this, making sure it’s something that the players want. We looked to World of Warcraft. What they have there is pretty much what most players are used to. We’re using that as a base.

A lot of the Japanese development team members aren’t used to playing MMOs. They always focused on consoles. It’s easy for them to make a game that feels good on a console but not a mouse and keyboard. You can go around E3 and see all these different first-person shooters, but when you pick up the controller, whether it be a Call of Duty or a Halo, you pretty much know how it’s going to feel. You know this is going to be your strafe, this is going to be your fire, this is going to be your aiming. We want it to be the same for MMO players.


The entire interview with the exception of him giving himself an out if 2.0 launches late, is about UI and controls. Why would you think they are considering anything else?




Edited, Jun 23rd 2012 10:57pm by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#31 Jun 23 2012 at 10:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Personally, I'd rather use the mouse less in FXIV. I'm keyboard exclusive in XI, and I get annoyed that the keyboard shortcuts in XIV are somewhat different and I haven't figured out all the differences yet.
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#32 Jun 24 2012 at 4:18 AM Rating: Good
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Ahh yes... more Voidwatch type events and zones with minimal reasons to actually go into them.

You're more than welcome to enjoy that. The past year of FFXI watching has shown that Tanaka and co. haven't learned a damned thing from their players.

Ever.


Tanaka is leaving Square enix.

Akihiko Matsui is being moved off FFXIV and onto FFXI to replace him.

http://gamerescape.com/


Edited, Jun 24th 2012 6:24am by Runespider
#33 Jun 24 2012 at 5:58 AM Rating: Good
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Let's hope Matsui takes the hint and follows Yoshida's example.

I wish FFXI all the best, but so far there's still not enough to entice me over. I'm intrigued on how the new jobs will mesh, but ultimately the game is still built on dated and frustrating foundations that I don't see getting shaken up, unless SoA hits as hard as Abyssea did.
#34 Jun 24 2012 at 7:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
I wish FFXI all the best, but so far there's still not enough to entice me over. I'm intrigued on how the new jobs will mesh, but ultimately the game is still built on dated and frustrating foundations that I don't see getting shaken up, unless SoA hits as hard as Abyssea did.


Is that meant to be a joke? XIV is built on the exact same 'dated and frustrating' foundations. If you asked people who had never played either game before to try both of them, they'd struggle to tell you which was turning 2 years old and which was celebrating a decade of service.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#35 Jun 24 2012 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
I wish FFXI all the best, but so far there's still not enough to entice me over. I'm intrigued on how the new jobs will mesh, but ultimately the game is still built on dated and frustrating foundations that I don't see getting shaken up, unless SoA hits as hard as Abyssea did.


Is that meant to be a joke? XIV is built on the exact same 'dated and frustrating' foundations. If you asked people who had never played either game before to try both of them, they'd struggle to tell you which was turning 2 years old and which was celebrating a decade of service.


Aside from graphics... I unfortunately agree. Modern games feel snappy and streamlined. FFXIV 1.x... doesn;'t.
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#36 Jun 24 2012 at 2:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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FFXIV is trying to appeal to video game players. Not just WoW players. And I'm pretty sure SE is not focusing on WoW players either. ...In fact, I think it is safe to say again that FFXIV is trying to appeal to video game players.
#37 Jun 24 2012 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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They are appealing to video game players....... by using and old and outdated model..... makes sense.
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#38 Jun 24 2012 at 6:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
They are appealing to video game players....... by using and old and outdated model..... makes sense.


Well, Just IMO but from everything I've seen and tried to make sense from in how they made ff14... I think they were just paranoid about RMT taking control of the game + SE forced them to use crystal tools. I Think they were so determined to kill rmt they forgot to make it fun. And well CT engine hasn't panned out well.
#39 Jun 24 2012 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Devildawgs wrote:
Ostia wrote:
They are appealing to video game players....... by using and old and outdated model..... makes sense.


Well, Just IMO but from everything I've seen and tried to make sense from in how they made ff14... I think they were just paranoid about RMT taking control of the game + SE forced them to use crystal tools. I Think they were so determined to kill rmt they forgot to make it fun. And well CT engine hasn't panned out well.

Ironic that they outsourced development of a lot of the game to China, isn't it?
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#40 Jun 25 2012 at 1:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Even more ironic that the game is full of bots and RMT nursing spare characters for later use, hahaha!!!
I think I reported that head-twitching Dokf Skid and his gangbang party of startergear Lala Conjurers some
25 times before I quit. Seems like he outlived me nonetheless.

Edited, Jun 25th 2012 3:33am by Rinsui
#41 Jun 25 2012 at 1:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
Even more ironic that the game is full of bots and RMT nursing spare characters for later use, hahaha!!!
I think I reported that head-twitching Dokf Skid and his gangbang party of startergear Lala Conjurers some
25 times before I quit. Seems like he outlived me nonetheless.


Yeah, Tanaka never did learn that it isn't the RMT you need to focus on in that aspect but the players. There are still many problems I have with it, but WoW *did* accomplish the affect that RMT really don't have much of an affect at all in the game anymore. If FFXI/FFXIV had made gathering of mats quick and easy (as opposed to the clunky and slow mini-games you need to play) you shrink the potential market for RMT. RMT exist solely because aspects of the game are so stupidly slow/boring that the general populace really doesn't want to do them, and RMT know they can just create a botting program to perform the action and sell the goods. This is the single most important lesson from FFXI that the development team never learned; if you make the players jump through hoops to do something in a game for simple, mundane actions then you only end up helping the RMT to get another market.

And before people cry "account theft" that's on the player end, not Blizzard, Bioware, or Square-Enix. The majority of the time it's unsafe browsing (aka ****/P2P) and their complete lack of any security features because "I haven't been hacked yet!" It happens in all MMOs.
#42 Jun 25 2012 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Ironic that they outsourced development of a lot of the game to China, isn't it?


lol. So that's how they bot so well: they saved the code!
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#43 Jun 26 2012 at 9:51 AM Rating: Good
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2,214 posts
Viertel wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Even more ironic that the game is full of bots and RMT nursing spare characters for later use, hahaha!!!
I think I reported that head-twitching Dokf Skid and his gangbang party of startergear Lala Conjurers some
25 times before I quit. Seems like he outlived me nonetheless.


Yeah, Tanaka never did learn that it isn't the RMT you need to focus on in that aspect but the players. There are still many problems I have with it, but WoW *did* accomplish the affect that RMT really don't have much of an affect at all in the game anymore. If FFXI/FFXIV had made gathering of mats quick and easy (as opposed to the clunky and slow mini-games you need to play) you shrink the potential market for RMT. RMT exist solely because aspects of the game are so stupidly slow/boring that the general populace really doesn't want to do them, and RMT know they can just create a botting program to perform the action and sell the goods. This is the single most important lesson from FFXI that the development team never learned; if you make the players jump through hoops to do something in a game for simple, mundane actions then you only end up helping the RMT to get another market.

And before people cry "account theft" that's on the player end, not Blizzard, Bioware, or Square-Enix. The majority of the time it's unsafe browsing (aka ****/P2P) and their complete lack of any security features because "I haven't been hacked yet!" It happens in all MMOs.


I usually hate playing Devil's Advocate, but Rinsui's post was in regards to the leve puppets. Not the crafting or gathering puppets. In 14 there are far more puppets doing leves that there are botting.

As well, I, and quite a few people I know, enjoy the crafting and gathering aspects of the game (though I do admit, pushing all my crafts and gathering to 36 was a little mind-numbing after a while, and I had to take a break... but I said the same thing about getting all of my combat jobs to 50...)

Right now, the balance of costs of goods is still off, and if you look at most of the items in the Market wards that sell, you can see most are not botted (e.g. the Class weapons, Materia, common turn-ins for GC). You may ask, "How can you tell they are not botted?" Easily... Different people are always selling them. Every now and then someone will get a batch of sales, but the names of the sales are always changing.

But, yeah, the sock puppet parties are funny standing out at Cedarwood in their onion gear dinging 48 Thm...
#44 Jun 28 2012 at 10:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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First off, if you are going to bash WoW player and WoW itself you might want to change your avatar lol.

Secondly Naoki Yoshida is appealing to Final Fantasy fans and modern MMO fans. Whether you like it or not WoW has basically set the global standard with MMO just like Call of Duty has set the standard for modern Shooter. It's not about attracting WoW players, it's about attracting modern MMO players.

I can't wait to see what 2.0 looks like.
____________________________
FFXIV Dyvid (Awaiting 2.0)
FFXI Dyvid ~ Pandemonium (Retired)
SWTOR Dy'vid Legacy - Canderous Ordo
#45 Jun 28 2012 at 10:16 PM Rating: Default
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4,148 posts
dyvidd wrote:
It's not about attracting WoW players, it's about attracting modern MMO players.


Pretty much. WoW has a control scheme and interface that works better than any other modern MMO. Wanting a game to model that doesn't make it like that game in any other sense then the comfort of the user who is playing it. I'm not sure why people can't see that especially when it's plainly stated in the interview.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#46 Jun 29 2012 at 5:28 AM Rating: Good
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21,262 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
dyvidd wrote:
It's not about attracting WoW players, it's about attracting modern MMO players.


Pretty much. WoW has a control scheme and interface that works better than any other modern MMO. Wanting a game to model that doesn't make it like that game in any other sense then the comfort of the user who is playing it. I'm not sure why people can't see that especially when it's plainly stated in the interview.


But even WoW players use UI mods left and right. I was rather disappointed to see a friend, who was acting as healer in a dungeon, have 10 squares on her screen representing hit points for her party, and all she did was keep double clicking the squares to have her characters toss heals on them. From a healing perspective, WoW isn't any more easier or difficult than FFXI was.
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#47 Jun 29 2012 at 7:03 AM Rating: Default
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Well, at least that´s what it looked like to you. I guess your friend would argue that the real challenge is not navigating through endless menus just to select your target, but managing hate, MP, cure potencies, procs, range, group coordination, casting times, and, between that: keeping the tank alive. ;)

Just for reference: I never played WoW. But I don´t like when the challenge in my games stems from the UI.
#48 Jun 29 2012 at 8:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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3,599 posts
Rinsui wrote:
Well, at least that´s what it looked like to you. I guess your friend would argue that the real challenge is not navigating through endless menus just to select your target, but managing hate, MP, cure potencies, procs, range, group coordination, casting times, and, between that: keeping the tank alive. ;)

Just for reference: I never played WoW. But I don´t like when the challenge in my games stems from the UI.


Ow! IT BURNS!!!
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#49 Jun 29 2012 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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4,148 posts
catwho wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
dyvidd wrote:
It's not about attracting WoW players, it's about attracting modern MMO players.


Pretty much. WoW has a control scheme and interface that works better than any other modern MMO. Wanting a game to model that doesn't make it like that game in any other sense then the comfort of the user who is playing it. I'm not sure why people can't see that especially when it's plainly stated in the interview.


But even WoW players use UI mods left and right. I was rather disappointed to see a friend, who was acting as healer in a dungeon, have 10 squares on her screen representing hit points for her party, and all she did was keep double clicking the squares to have her characters toss heals on them. From a healing perspective, WoW isn't any more easier or difficult than FFXI was.

Your friend was just using a click mod. You keybind combinations of keyboard and mouse keys to trigger certain spells and/or abilities that only work with that specific part of the interface. It's not a matter of whether or not it's difficult(and I will try to steer away so I don't run over this horse for the thousandth time), it's comfortable and intuitive and it works... which is what a UI is supposed to be. In XI/XIV you don't have to keep track of nearly as much as you do in WoW.

Even if you never installed any of the mods, you still end up with a UI and control scheme that is light years ahead of XIV even though it's 7 years old.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#50 Jun 29 2012 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
Louiscool wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Well, at least that´s what it looked like to you. I guess your friend would argue that the real challenge is not navigating through endless menus just to select your target, but managing hate, MP, cure potencies, procs, range, group coordination, casting times, and, between that: keeping the tank alive. ;)

Just for reference: I never played WoW. But I don´t like when the challenge in my games stems from the UI.


Ow! IT BURNS!!!


Yeah, I'm not sure I fully trust Mr. Bright-yellow-font-on-blue-backgroud's opinion of user interface design. :P
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#51 Jun 29 2012 at 12:06 PM Rating: Default
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2,153 posts
Ah. I use the black background. Now I get what bothers you guys.
Better?
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