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How big of a population increase can we expect with 2.0?Follow

#1 Jul 01 2012 at 4:45 AM Rating: Good
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I just started playing again a few days ago for the first time since launch month because of the legacy benefits.

I tried very hard to like this game initially but it seemed like it was trying to make me hate it. In the time I've been gone it seems like there have been some really great improvements, and having just read about 2.0 myself I'm pretty excited for how this game could turn out. Just the market ward search feature, an altered repair system, and the addition of quests and jobs, have turned this game from feeling like work into something I actually enjoy spending time on.

But then again, there's the issue of longevity. SE did a pretty great job at damaging their reputation and the reputation of this game to the point of where it's at right now. Even a hardcore FFXI fan like myself had completely washed my hands of it and figured it was beyond repair. I wouldn't have even known about 2.0 if I hadn't checked back in on a whim to see how the game was doing after it not even crossing my mind for years.

Will the launch of the PS3 version worldwide and the attempt to draw back PC players bring in enough people to sustain some worthwhile expansion packs to this game? I'd hate it if the only expansions we saw were like the last few FFXI content packs. There are a lot of things I want to see this game do that FFXI never could, and I'm somewhat doubtful that it can surpass even its predecessor in content.
#2 Jul 01 2012 at 6:22 AM Rating: Decent
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The short answer is that only time will tell. XI has been around for 10 years. That's a lot of time to pour content into a game so I don't see XIV catching up anytime soon. On top of that, XI is coming out with another expansion and depending on how well that does there are still several more continents they could branch out to.

The thing that worries me the most about XIV is that they won't have been able to make the necessary changes by V2 to give themselves room to expand. From what it sounds like, 2.0 is just going to be an improved UI and graphics engine. SE is going to have to work some magic and make 2.0 feel like an expansion, but I get the feeling that it won't. If you check the roadmap there are still things that are considered fixes that you'd expect at re-launch that are basically just fixes and improvements rather than actual content or expansion. A lot of it is coming after re-launch too.





Edited, Jul 1st 2012 8:23am by FilthMcNasty
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#3 Jul 01 2012 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good
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I don't even think that content is much of an issue. No matter how much content they add, there will be not any mass of people coming to play. It's just throwing good money after bad.

I think the most fatal issue is the lack of iconicness XIV has compared to XI. One example:

The classes you start with (ie. the ones that should be hooking players) are generic and the battle system is (arguably) boring. In XI you were motivated to work towards level 30 to get an advanced job, because they had such iconic stylisation (eg. the distinctive in aesthetics or mechanics of DRK, BST, SMN, PLD, NIN, SAM, DRG etc.). Even some of the base classes, especially RDM, WHM and BLM were iconic. There's tons of fanart of ANY FFXI class, but there is next to none for FFXIV's. Why? They all look boring and generic. In FFXI there were plenty of abilities of armor and abilities you were motivated to work towards getting, but I never felt there was anything like that in XIV.

Combine things that like with the frankly boring combat and dull journey to 50, I don't see XIV becoming an icon in Japan or anywhere else unless it undergoes a great paradigm shift.
#4 Jul 01 2012 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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If anyone knew, they could make a **** ton of coin selling that info to SE.
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#5 Jul 01 2012 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
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This game isn't about making a long lasting successful MMO, it's just about saving face of the FF brand and that is why SE are rebuilding it, as such I doubt it will be around more than 3-4 years. There is no way it will bring in millions of new ps3 players and as such it's not going to make any money ;/

Version 2 looks nice and i'm going to play it if it lives upto what my expectations are but there is no way I'm giving up my main MMO for this, its future is just way too shakey.
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#6 Jul 01 2012 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
If anyone knew, they could make a **** ton of coin selling that info to SE.


Hilarious because we gave them the information that the game was not ready in beta..... and SE just laughed at us..... Guess who's laughing now.
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#7 Jul 01 2012 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
If anyone knew, they could make a **** ton of coin selling that info to SE.


Hilarious because we gave them the information that the game was not ready in beta..... and SE just laughed at us..... Guess who's laughing now.


Maybe they will listen next time, if they ever dare to make another mmo.
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#8 Jul 01 2012 at 10:54 AM Rating: Default
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preludes wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
If anyone knew, they could make a **** ton of coin selling that info to SE.


Hilarious because we gave them the information that the game was not ready in beta..... and SE just laughed at us..... Guess who's laughing now.


Maybe they will listen next time, if they ever dare to make another mmo.


They will... MMO and F2P games are going to become the dominant titles, whether subsription MMOs will convert to F2P remains to be seen... I think it depends what Blizzard does with their next MMO since pretty much everyone else is blindly following their lead.
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#9 Jul 01 2012 at 11:33 AM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
If anyone knew, they could make a **** ton of coin selling that info to SE.


Hilarious because we gave them the information that the game was not ready in beta..... and SE just laughed at us..... Guess who's laughing now.


Guess who is laughing now... *thinks hard* ... the ones - including me - who told SE that the game wasn't ready yet? But what kind of a childish moron would see it as funny when a game people were looking forward to turns out to be a disappointment?? Wait... other companies perhaps? But I do not see how they would fit into your remark.

I give up. Please tell me, who is laughing now?
#10 Jul 01 2012 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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preludes wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
If anyone knew, they could make a **** ton of coin selling that info to SE.


Hilarious because we gave them the information that the game was not ready in beta..... and SE just laughed at us..... Guess who's laughing now.


Maybe they will listen next time, if they ever dare to make another mmo.


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#11 Jul 01 2012 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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MrMissile wrote:
I give up. Please tell me, who is laughing now?

Who's laughing now?

All of us. Once again, at your expense Smiley: lol
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#12 Jul 01 2012 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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Mykha wrote:
Will the launch of the PS3 version worldwide and the attempt to draw back PC players bring in enough people to sustain some worthwhile expansion packs to this game?


My crystal ball is predicting somewhere between 200 and 300k subscribers for the 2.0 launch if SE successfully repairs the major problems FFXIV has. I think the game ought to get about half of FFXI's peak subscription levels, and the majority of players will be former and current FFXI aficionados with a handful of newcomers. Also, they might consider launching the game on additional platforms which could boost numbers a bit. The ship has sailed on any "WoW killer" potential, but there should be enough players for at least one proper expansion pack down the road.
#13 Jul 01 2012 at 4:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was surprised that an old friend today mentioned she'd be trying out XIV on PS3 when it came out. Turns out she has a Mac at home and can't play it on there, and her work PC just laughed at her when she tried to run the benchmark. There is, actually, a large market of folks who game only on the PS3 who are anticipating the PS3 release.

If SE markets heavily to this demographic, we might get more folks than we suspect.

I'd guess an initial doubling of current subscriptions, and if it gets good press this time around, a small but steady increase. If it gets bad press again, it'll go the way of Tera.
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#14 Jul 01 2012 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
I was surprised that an old friend today mentioned she'd be trying out XIV on PS3 when it came out. Turns out she has a Mac at home and can't play it on there, and her work PC just laughed at her when she tried to run the benchmark. There is, actually, a large market of folks who game only on the PS3 who are anticipating the PS3 release.
If SE markets heavily to this demographic, we might get more folks than we suspect.

I'd guess an initial doubling of current subscriptions, and if it gets good press this time around, a small but steady increase. If it gets bad press again, it'll go the way of Tera.


Yep, population +1 right here :)
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#15 Jul 01 2012 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
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I wonder how long the rampant negativity will prevail once the Hype machine starts up again...

Idealy, it should share a decent portion of FFXI's playerbase, people who assume that FFXI players won't ever play FFXIV are dilusional, as there is likely to be a discounted price for playing both as there was at the begging, which will be a huge enticement for a Legacy Player to go back to FFXI as they'll be wracking up two discounts.

Beyond that, there's too many factors to consider. Word of mouth about 2.0 once we get more details will be the primary source of new subscriptions, followed closely by the Media's attentions, which can go either way based entirely if X|V's performance hike is good enough. Then of course once the game is out and functional, whatever advertising SE decides to do. Though, Yoshi-p has the right idea on that. Make sure the game is out and satisfactory before you start tossing TV adds up for it.
#16 Jul 01 2012 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
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All it takes is front page advertisment on Playstation Network Store and people will come in the herds especially if you do 30 day free.
#17 Jul 01 2012 at 6:18 PM Rating: Decent
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[quoteout she has a Mac at home and can't play it on there,][/quote]
Macbook pro ftw I play on it and runs amazing. Just bootcamp windows.
#18 Jul 01 2012 at 6:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
They will... MMO and F2P games are going to become the dominant titles, whether subsription MMOs will convert to F2P remains to be seen... I think it depends what Blizzard does with their next MMO since pretty much everyone else is blindly following their lead.


"Free" to play games are increasing only because companies realized that many people will pay $1 per item sooner than they'll pay $30 for an entire expansion. :\

You're certainly right that everyone will probably just blindly follow whatever Blizzard does either way. I can tell you, though, that between selling more and more items with greater effects on gameplay in WoW, splitting up Starcraft II into a $60 game and two $40 "expansions" before you can even get each species' storyline, and making entire real-money auction systems (from which they take at least 15% of every transaction and penalize you another 15% if you want to actually convert the earnings into real currency), I think it's pretty obvious that Blizzard will be going the way of both micro- and macro-transactions. Whatever they can charge for, they will.
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#19 Jul 01 2012 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
They will... MMO and F2P games are going to become the dominant titles, whether subsription MMOs will convert to F2P remains to be seen... I think it depends what Blizzard does with their next MMO since pretty much everyone else is blindly following their lead.


"Free" to play games are increasing only because companies realized that many people will pay $1 per item sooner than they'll pay $30 for an entire expansion. :\

You're certainly right that everyone will probably just blindly follow whatever Blizzard does either way. I can tell you, though, that between selling more and more items with greater effects on gameplay in WoW, splitting up Starcraft II into a $60 game and two $40 "expansions" before you can even get each species' storyline, and making entire real-money auction systems (from which they take at least 15% of every transaction and penalize you another 15% if you want to actually convert the earnings into real currency), I think it's pretty obvious that Blizzard will be going the way of both micro- and macro-transactions. Whatever they can charge for, they will.


So KaneKitty how is FF14 working out for you?
#20 Jul 01 2012 at 10:12 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
MrMissile wrote:
I give up. Please tell me, who is laughing now?

Who's laughing now?

All of us. Once again, at your expense Smiley: lol


Figure of speech? I believe that even then only be the mean spirited people who would laugh. So you do not make any sense, but eeeh... hey: /slowclap. I know you appreciate it. /slowclap.

But are you resorting to resorting to the use of "Once again" and "all of us" now? I did suspect you of suffering from Asperger syndrome, after all, you always want to have the last word on anything, have incredible strong opinions about a game he does not play anymore and the ones who made it and continues to post those sometimes long winded but always predictable opinions even though he has already repeated them countless times. No figure of speech here, But now you imply that are you have multiple personalities?

This could shine a new light on your mental condition, but in any case: please, do the ones who actually do love you a favor and go seek help.
#21 Jul 02 2012 at 1:57 AM Rating: Default
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MrMissile wrote:
Figure of speech? I believe that even then only be the mean spirited people who would laugh.


You believe that because despite the fact that I linked it, you still don't know what that means. I forgive you if it's out of stupidity. I salute you if you are trolling me. I love all my fans.


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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#22 Jul 02 2012 at 5:26 AM Rating: Good
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KoobsKoobs wrote:
All it takes is front page advertisment on Playstation Network Store and people will come in the herds especially if you do 30 day free.


This isn't true at all for a game like this, an mmo is a huge turnoff for many normal gamers and those that want to play one are more informed and a pretty picture won't make them all run in and throw $60 on the counter to buy it.

Unless you really think console gamers are so much more stupid than PC players..it's nice to be optimistic but lets be realistic.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2012 7:28am by Runespider
#23 Jul 02 2012 at 5:29 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
MrMissile wrote:
Figure of speech? I believe that even then only be the mean spirited people who would laugh.


You believe that because despite the fact that I linked it, you still don't know what that means. I forgive you if it's out of stupidity. I salute you if you are trolling me. I love all my fans.




And there he is again, on the forum of a game he does not even play anymore. Like clockwork. /slowclap

I am on to you, aren't I?

Go read the magazines for opinions and other ammo you can use in one of your endless discussions, you freak. You have to since you stopped playing FFXIV a long time ago.
#24 Jul 02 2012 at 5:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think most people won't even be aware in 2013 that FFXIV went to 2.0.
#25 Jul 02 2012 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I think most people won't even be aware in 2013 that FFXIV went to 2.0.


Well, let's rather hope most people won't be aware in 2013 that there even was a 1.0! ^.-/
#26 Jul 02 2012 at 7:33 AM Rating: Decent
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MrMissile wrote:
And there he is again, on the forum of a game he does not even play anymore. Like clockwork. /slowclap

I am on to you, aren't I?

Go read the magazines for opinions and other ammo you can use in one of your endless discussions, you freak. You have to since you stopped playing FFXIV a long time ago.


Do yourself a favor, because people are probably just as sick of your baseless insults as they may be of me sharing an opinion on a forum... Ignore my posts.

I told you how to do it before, but perhaps you forgot so lets review. Mouseover my name, move the cursor down to 'Ignore' and click it. It's that easy. Every time I post you feel it necessary to attack me personally, derail the topic and make an *** of yourself. We get that you like to troll me, but it was obvious, it was never funny and ceased being entertaining long ago.

Actually **** it. I'll just block you. Probably be more effective since you don't have anything to say and you act like you're starved for the attention anyway.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#27 Jul 02 2012 at 8:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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...

Edited, Jul 2nd 2012 10:02am by Woofdram
#28 Jul 02 2012 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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The one nice thing about 2.0 is that it will stop most of the negative feedback one way or the other.

If the game is good, the people who post just to degrade the game will become inundated with posts asking for information (no really easy to flame a "How do I?" post), or the game will tank, and the forums will die off.

Either way, I think it's a win/win^^.

But, for all seriousness. If 1/2 the stuff that they are talking about for 2.0 (well, all of the UI) is released, And the Beta is well received, the population to the game will easily Triple at the release. The number of people who are sitting back and waiting for something better to come along (and, in a way SE has been lucky, there has been no MMO to come out that has really drawn in the community). So, if FFXIV has enough content to keep people busy. New Classes and Jobs to unlock, and enough endgame content so that 99% of the server population isn't done with it in 6 months, then they should be off to a good start.

At the end of the day though, it just comes down to it's reception, and how they react to Beta issues. Please don't Black-box the Beta issues...
#29 Jul 02 2012 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
MrMissile wrote:
And there he is again, on the forum of a game he does not even play anymore. Like clockwork. /slowclap

I am on to you, aren't I?

Go read the magazines for opinions and other ammo you can use in one of your endless discussions, you freak. You have to since you stopped playing FFXIV a long time ago.


Do yourself a favor, because people are probably just as sick of your baseless insults as they may be of me sharing an opinion on a forum... Ignore my posts.

I told you how to do it before, but perhaps you forgot so lets review. Mouseover my name, move the cursor down to 'Ignore' and click it. It's that easy. Every time I post you feel it necessary to attack me personally, derail the topic and make an *** of yourself. We get that you like to troll me, but it was obvious, it was never funny and ceased being entertaining long ago.

Actually @#%^ it. I'll just block you. Probably be more effective since you don't have anything to say and you act like you're starved for the attention anyway.


Nah... just deleted most of my reply. Filth just forgot that it was him who started this small series of posts. He shouldn't turn things around. He has been trolling any positive comment or expression of hope on this forum for a year and a coupe of months now. Let's keep it at that.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2012 12:32pm by MrMissile
#30 Jul 02 2012 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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Wow you guys really like to argue back and forth huh Smiley: glare

And no the game wont get 200-300k players from 2.0 just because of the Ps3, the Ps3 is the least popular of the consoles, most FF fans don't like FF online (FF has sold millions upon millions, yet his 2 online incarnations combined don't break a million subs combined at any point) if 2.0 is just a facelift and UI fix it will fail, the game needs content all around in order to be successful, SE needs to also makes up it's mind on who it will cater too, it cant keep catering half way to both demographics, the hardcore and the casuals, because it ends up ******* both off.

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#31 Jul 02 2012 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
And no the game wont get 200-300k players from 2.0 just because of the Ps3, the Ps3 is the least popular of the consoles...

That might be true but the PS3 isn't exactly the Dreamcast of this generation, it has still sold over 60 million units worldwide which is a lot of potential customers. There are plenty of people that aren't interested in PC gaming and have been waiting patiently for this to be released on PS3. The PS3 isn't going to bring millions of new subscribers but it will probably be more than you think.
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#32 Jul 02 2012 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
Wow you guys really like to argue back and forth huh Smiley: glare

Missile just has a hard on for me for some reason. He'd swear it's because I'm so negative and maybe I am, but apparently he doesn't realize that he's just as negative and it's probably worse because for him it's obviously personal. There's a difference between being critical of a product and attacking someone personally because of their opinion. Which is worse? Who cares.

Nainz wrote:
Ostia wrote:
And no the game wont get 200-300k players from 2.0 just because of the Ps3, the Ps3 is the least popular of the consoles...
That might be true but the PS3 isn't exactly the Dreamcast of this generation, it has still sold over 60 million units worldwide which is a lot of potential customers. There are plenty of people that aren't interested in PC gaming and have been waiting patiently for this to be released on PS3.


There are a lot more people who didn't wait though. Three good reasons why PS3 version won't make as big a splash as people think:

The longest thread in this forum is the one about advice building a PC.
The most common threads were for advice upgrading computers.
NA and EU players preferred the PC version of FFXI over console by a ratio of 2 to 1.

I'm not saying that PS3 will be a failure because I'm sure it'll bring a lot of JP players, but they don't typically group with us so it won't have much of an effect. I'm hesitant to say that the game will seem more populated because I still think that new players will only want to roll on new servers. Level distribution is important.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#33 Jul 02 2012 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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I donno, sometimes, Filth, I think it's nice that you get personal feedback to the same tone as the feedback you give out to every game you don't play.

Honestly, those with overly negative outlook on this, will never see any hope in anything that shows up, period. Coming to Zam for a positive outlook on FFXIV is like walking into a Catholic Church looking for support for *** Marriage. It doesn't matter what reasons you have in support of it, it breaks their doctrine to be supportive of the idea.

The real answer is 'wait and see'. Nothing like this has been done on this level before, especially without going Free to Play. The whole thing is being watched more than credit is being given here for and the result really all depends on how well 2.0 is received, especially for PS3 launch. Given the "Holy ****!" reactions from the media that got to see the sneak peak, results may actually be optimistic.
#34 Jul 02 2012 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Coming to Zam for a positive outlook on FFXIV is like walking into a Catholic Church [and]...


As someone who has really been hoping for this thread to devolve into further derailed in-fighting, I'm quite excited that there's been a faint mention of the Catholic church, as it gives me sufficient hope for the gratification of Godwin's Law by page three! :D
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"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#35 Jul 02 2012 at 5:31 PM Rating: Good
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We'll have to hold off on posting till Red Mage comes out in FFXIV then.
#36 Jul 02 2012 at 5:32 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
I donno, sometimes, Filth, I think it's nice that you get personal feedback to the same tone as the feedback you give out to every game you don't play.

It's been nearly 6 months since they started paid subs. I was in the first wave of alpha testers so I had nearly 6 months playing prior to everyone who started on day 1. During that time I provided SE with loads of feedback; constructive criticism as well as ideas to make the game better.

I have just as much or more experience with the improvements that have been made to the game as someone who played starting at launch. The core mechanics of the game are what I have issues with and they haven't changed in the past 6 months.

Hyrist wrote:
Honestly, those with overly negative outlook on this, will never see any hope in anything that shows up, period. Coming to Zam for a positive outlook on FFXIV is like walking into a Catholic Church looking for support for *** Marriage. It doesn't matter what reasons you have in support of it, it breaks their doctrine to be supportive of the idea.


You make an excellent point with your analogy, but you have to keep in mind that it works both ways. I guess for some people FF is like their religion. Fair enough, but at least recognize the problems with the game and don't be over-sensitive when someone points out a flaw.

XIV was like a person who face planted off a cliff. I'm the witness who says **********, that guy will be lucky to be alive after that". There are about as many people who survive a fall from a cliff as there are MMOs that survive failed launches. Given the circumstances, I'd say that's fairly optimistic.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#37 Jul 02 2012 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
You make an excellent point with your analogy, but you have to keep in mind that it works both ways. I guess for some people FF is like their religion. Fair enough, but at least recognize the problems with the game and don't be over-sensitive when someone points out a flaw.

XIV was like a person who face planted off a cliff. I'm the witness who says **********, that guy will be lucky to be alive after that". There are about as many people who survive a fall from a cliff as there are MMOs that survive failed launches. Given the circumstances, I'd say that's fairly optimistic.


I was pointing out flaws with the rest of them. But there's a point where you have to stop pointing out dead flaws and give credit where credit is due, so you can move onto the next set of flaws for them to improve upon.

The difference? You're out of the process commentating from the sidelines, I'm still deep in, pointing out flaws on both sides. (Gotta smack down bad ideas as well as point out in game flaws. So far, SE's impressed me with what they have announced. Almost spot on with my views.)

Problem with your analogy about someone jumping face first off a cliff is that you forget that SE already has one successful MMO under their belt. Most MMO's that crash do so because it's their FIRST MMO, and, for many of the failed ones, their first real foray into high-term gaming as well. The games that have actual companies with experience behind them, Aion from NCSoft for example, still exist today, still get updated to this day. They survive though in Aion's case, it went free to play.

Square Enix? Massive company with several strong titles and one successful MMO under their belt and a tainted-yet-still-powerful, pedigree of high quality games to take from? FFXIV will survive easily. They wouldn't have thrown so much money at it if they weren't determined to make it so. So no, given the circumstances I'd say it's a safe bet that it'll draw some people to it once 2.0 comes out. Probably not as many as FFXI. But then again, FFXI's numbers were not strong to begin with either, due to their staggered release. Long term? Unknown territory.
#38 Jul 02 2012 at 7:11 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
But, for all seriousness. If 1/2 the stuff that they are talking about for 2.0 (well, all of the UI) is released, And the Beta is well received, the population to the game will easily Triple at the release. The number of people who are sitting back and waiting for something better to come along (and, in a way SE has been lucky, there has been no MMO to come out that has really drawn in the community).


Interesting points here. My take:

1. To say that FFXIV's population could triple at the 2.0 launch might not be too much of a reach, imo. There are far more people than that who will be eligible to download the 2.0 client for free, and I'm sure they'll be able to retry the game with a free trial. If the pre-launch marketing is up to snuff, a lot of these people will be willing to give the game another shot. If the new version of the game is significantly better than 1.0, then I bet a lot of people will stick around.

2. Guild Wars 2 is my pick as the next big thing in the MMO industry. I've played the beta, and this game is simply too good (and too different) to go the way of Star Wars or Tera. That said, GW2 and FFXIV 2.0 are going to be two very different kinds of games, and I, for one, plan on playing both. However, I could see GW2 potentially snapping up a lot of gamers who might otherwise be going back to Eorzea. The success of GW2 could have an impact on whether FFXIV 2.0 succeeds.
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#39 Jul 02 2012 at 7:11 PM Rating: Good
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XIV has to do a couple of things right to do well.
1. Fix the fundamentals.
2. Have a good beta and fix complaints.
3. Get a 7/10 or higher in reviews, the higher the better.
4. Get word of mouth going and some Let's play XIV on the big game sites.
5. Allow new pc and ps3 users to have a cheap lengthy point of entry to try the game out.
6. Release good content at a fast pace

This game has the potential to exceed XI in subs because XI was aimed specifically at the hardcore niche audience. If it tackles those issues listed above. The potential is anywhere from 300k to unknown depending on how well they tackle those issues. Bear in mind that while XI never drew in a significant amount of it's ff offline base. It was modeled off of a traditional mmo EQ structure. Other than jobs/enemies, it didn't veer more towards being an FF first. That is something that is very evident in Yoshi's speeches about crystal tower and content ff spg fans can relate to.
#40 Jul 02 2012 at 8:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
I was pointing out flaws with the rest of them. But there's a point where you have to stop pointing out dead flaws and give credit where credit is due, so you can move onto the next set of flaws for them to improve upon.


It's easy to give them credit. They have added enough content to keep the people who are satisfied with the game playing, made some QoL changes like the search feature updates and they have been talking about taking more player feedback into account. All of these things make me at least hopeful, but the things that top my list of priorities will not be seen until 2.0 comes. These are the things that are keeping the majority of the old players from coming back and what is keeping new players from funneling in.

Hyrist wrote:
The difference? You're out of the process commentating from the sidelines...


I missed a grand total of... well, I missed 1.21 and 1.22 updates. I have kept up with what has changed in the past few months updates even though I don't currently play. If you miss a few episodes(updates) of a TV show, you don't tune in a few weeks later with absolutely no clue what is going on so I'm not sure why you guys keep pushing this.

Hyrist wrote:
Problem with your analogy about someone jumping face first off a cliff is that you forget that SE already has one successful MMO under their belt. Most MMO's that crash do so because it's their FIRST MMO, and, for many of the failed ones, their first real foray into high-term gaming as well.


It makes no difference if it's your first or your fifth MMO Hyrist. A failure is a failure and it's hard to get out from underneath that cloud without getting wet. Also, this point doesn't work in SE's favor. [Insert 'SE should have done a better job considering they've been doing this for decades' argument here]

Hyrist wrote:
Square Enix? Massive company with several strong titles and one successful MMO under their belt and a tainted-yet-still-powerful, pedigree of high quality games to take from? FFXIV will survive easily.


It's almost as if you're trying to make the point for me. There is no shame in propping your own game up against a tower of money you made the first time around, but I wouldn't be proud of it and I don't think SE would either. There is a difference between walking away from your plummet off of a cliff and living out the rest of your life on a ventilator.

Don't just survive... thrive! Smiley: tongue

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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#41 Jul 02 2012 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Quote:
You make an excellent point with your analogy, but you have to keep in mind that it works both ways. I guess for some people FF is like their religion. Fair enough, but at least recognize the problems with the game and don't be over-sensitive when someone points out a flaw.

XIV was like a person who face planted off a cliff. I'm the witness who says **********, that guy will be lucky to be alive after that". There are about as many people who survive a fall from a cliff as there are MMOs that survive failed launches. Given the circumstances, I'd say that's fairly optimistic.


I was pointing out flaws with the rest of them. But there's a point where you have to stop pointing out dead flaws and give credit where credit is due, so you can move onto the next set of flaws for them to improve upon.

The difference? You're out of the process commentating from the sidelines, I'm still deep in, pointing out flaws on both sides. (Gotta smack down bad ideas as well as point out in game flaws. So far, SE's impressed me with what they have announced. Almost spot on with my views.)

Problem with your analogy about someone jumping face first off a cliff is that you forget that SE already has one successful MMO under their belt. Most MMO's that crash do so because it's their FIRST MMO, and, for many of the failed ones, their first real foray into high-term gaming as well. The games that have actual companies with experience behind them, Aion from NCSoft for example, still exist today, still get updated to this day. They survive though in Aion's case, it went free to play.

Square Enix? Massive company with several strong titles and one successful MMO under their belt and a tainted-yet-still-powerful, pedigree of high quality games to take from? FFXIV will survive easily. They wouldn't have thrown so much money at it if they weren't determined to make it so. So no, given the circumstances I'd say it's a safe bet that it'll draw some people to it once 2.0 comes out. Probably not as many as FFXI. But then again, FFXI's numbers were not strong to begin with either, due to their staggered release. Long term? Unknown territory.


I'll be honest to you Hyrist , And take this from some one who used to be the hardest of the hard core from ffxi at one time..... To one that could barely play the ffxvi beta because I didn't upgrade my computer or buy a new one. I want this game to succeed.

With that said I trust your opinion as much as I trust Filth's. It's like he is Neo and your agent Smith. Two sides that battle it out. He tends to be negative and you tend to toss out a primer coat of paint. He is the black knight and you the white. When this game Finally comes out on PS3 I will trust neither of your opinions rather I'll look to the less polarizing players here and some reviews from some game sites that aren't selling there vote.

I like this new guy in charge, he seems to be the only guy that "get's it" in Japan. But at the same time let's not sugarcoat things like you are. (even if you don't think you are doing it you are.)
#42 Jul 02 2012 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
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Will 2.0 bring new players ? Yes! How many ? It all depends on what 2.0 actually delivers. But lets not act like there hundreds upon hundreds of thousands people following FFXIV and waiting to jump in.... At it's peak it had 50k players..... It will be an uphill battle and so far i seriously doubt they can pull it off with what they have showed this past 2 years.
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#43 Jul 03 2012 at 12:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Devildawgs wrote:
With that said I trust your opinion as much as I trust Filth's. It's like he is Neo and your agent Smith. Two sides that battle it out. He tends to be negative and you tend to toss out a primer coat of paint. He is the black knight and you the white.


It isn't so black and white though. If anything, I'm more in the middle on the issue than polarized. The thing is that there are so many fans, and understandably so, but they tend to be extremely biased toward SE and the FF franchise to the point that they almost completely deny that there is a problem. SE will fix it no problem, but I guess they forget that was exactly what was expected at launch and it didn't materialize(pun intended).

I don't hate SE(not including their customer service and billing) and I don't hate XIV. It's a decent game with potential, but the situation we're in now is exactly like it was 2 years ago. Will SE be able to pull of the miracle and 2.0 be the patch that saves the day? You can't blame someone for being cautious after they've been burned twice already.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#44 Jul 03 2012 at 7:22 AM Rating: Decent
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2,214 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Devildawgs wrote:
With that said I trust your opinion as much as I trust Filth's. It's like he is Neo and your agent Smith. Two sides that battle it out. He tends to be negative and you tend to toss out a primer coat of paint. He is the black knight and you the white.


It isn't so black and white though. If anything, I'm more in the middle on the issue than polarized. The thing is that there are so many fans, and understandably so, but they tend to be extremely biased toward SE and the FF franchise to the point that they almost completely deny that there is a problem. SE will fix it no problem, but I guess they forget that was exactly what was expected at launch and it didn't materialize(pun intended).

I don't hate SE(not including their customer service and billing) and I don't hate XIV. It's a decent game with potential, but the situation we're in now is exactly like it was 2 years ago. Will SE be able to pull of the miracle and 2.0 be the patch that saves the day? You can't blame someone for being cautious after they've been burned twice already.

If it's not so black and please identify one thing you have said in this thread that was related to population, and not either defending your perceived negative view, or degrading someones positive view?

I mean in your last paragraph you even say you don't hate SE or XIV, but then say we are in a similar situation as we were 2.0. That statement is completely off key and antagonistic.

You use overstated concepts or implied negativity veiled in an attempt to sound objective. They you try and turn the statement by talking about blame.

As well, yes, you absolutely can blame someone for being cautious for being burned any number of times. Not for being burned (that's their own problem and something they have to deal with). But, when they take it out on others, it becomes offensive. And Filth you have started taking it out on others.

If you were actually interested in the game, and not just on venting on what you feel happened to you in 14, you would have something to say about the thread, and not the other posters of the thread.

I guess all I am saying is, if you don't stay on topic, you have no grounds for a feigned defensive stance.

And more on topic, Yeah, I am curious about GW2. I personally will never play it, but, it is getting well received. And will be around the third or forth major MMO to get released since the release of 14.

And while I could argue Guild Wars has always had more of a cult following, I think this one has the chance of bringing the game into the mainstream...

But, they are in a similar (but non-negative) position as SE. It will be fun to see how both fare. I know there is enough of a market for both to thrive, and I don't believe either will be the blame for the others down-fall.
#45 Jul 03 2012 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:
Mykha wrote:
Will the launch of the PS3 version worldwide and the attempt to draw back PC players bring in enough people to sustain some worthwhile expansion packs to this game?


My crystal ball is predicting somewhere between 200 and 300k subscribers for the 2.0 launch if SE successfully repairs the major problems FFXIV has. I think the game ought to get about half of FFXI's peak subscription levels, and the majority of players will be former and current FFXI aficionados with a handful of newcomers. Also, they might consider launching the game on additional platforms which could boost numbers a bit. The ship has sailed on any "WoW killer" potential, but there should be enough players for at least one proper expansion pack down the road.

+1

I for one am one, I know more who await 2.0
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#46 Jul 03 2012 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:
I mean in your last paragraph you even say you don't hate SE or XIV, but then say we are in a similar situation as we were 2.0. That statement is completely off key and antagonistic.

I said that we're in a similar situation because I believe we are. When XIV was coming out of beta just before release, many people were certain that there was a miracle patch coming to fix the game. Now, 2 years later, that miracle patch has a name. It's called 2.0 and it's expected to be exactly what everyone(myself included) wanted back then. How is that antagonistic?

In the last thread we talked about population I said that SE would probably have problems getting new players together with old players when 2.0 launches. New players will consider things like level distribution, the economy and other factors in making their decision and I think for the most part they will want to start on fresh servers. Established servers will grow a little, but probably won't feel as lively as new servers. Is this too negative?

I remember back with XIV release date was first announced. I got karma bombed into oblivion for saying that the game was coming out way too early and that it needed another year in development. People made the exact same 'You're sooooo negative, overatating ect ect' comments. What happens? Sadly, it turns out I underestimated by about 18 months.

Another case, when SE announced that they would not have a trailer ready for E3. I made this joke...
FilthMcNasty wrote:
SE E3 Booth: Slideshow of CGI screencaps and concept art. Yoshi handcuffed to a PS3 talking about how it will save the MMO and perhaps the dignity of the franchise.

Sony E3 Booth: PS4 details and a release date of Q2 2013

SE E3 Booth: FFFFFUUUUUUUUU

...which I thought would be harmless. What happens? Another karma bombing shortly before SE announces an expansion for XI that will not support the PS2 version. What the **** did I do with that tin foil kabuto?

Edited, Jul 3rd 2012 11:05am by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#47 Jul 03 2012 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
The thing that worries me the most about XIV is that they won't have been able to make the necessary changes by V2 to give themselves room to expand. From what it sounds like, 2.0 is just going to be an improved UI and graphics engine. SE is going to have to work some magic and make 2.0 feel like an expansion, but I get the feeling that it won't. If you check the roadmap there are still things that are considered fixes that you'd expect at re-launch that are basically just fixes and improvements rather than actual content or expansion. A lot of it is coming after re-launch too.


I know you're only going from what you read, but I'm going to have to disagree here (surprise!)

For 1, the current story will not be playable in 2.0. That means they will HAVE to have a new story, right? Boom, content.

Secondly, many of these changes and improvements are being made to make WAY for better content. Take, for instance, Hamlet Defense. With the current engine, they can only display 40 character models at any time, regardless of settings and hardware specs. So for Hamlet, they took what should have been an open world event and made it an instance.

Come 2.0, they've suggested that these events will be more akin to FFXI Campaign and not instance events, making them full-scale awesome. They have to instance A LOT of things (all) currently, but in 2.0 they will have much more flexability with content.

They have been trying to keep future content tight-lipped because of spoilers to the current story. Expect that to change soon, with 1.23 and GDC/TGS
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#48 Jul 03 2012 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Wow you guys really like to argue back and forth huh Smiley: glare

And no the game wont get 200-300k players from 2.0 just because of the Ps3, the Ps3 is the least popular of the consoles, most FF fans don't like FF online (FF has sold millions upon millions, yet his 2 online incarnations combined don't break a million subs combined at any point) if 2.0 is just a facelift and UI fix it will fail, the game needs content all around in order to be successful, SE needs to also makes up it's mind on who it will cater too, it cant keep catering half way to both demographics, the hardcore and the casuals, because it ends up ******* both off.



You... don't know things about games, do you?

A) FFXI is Squareenix's most PROFITABLE Final Fantasy title. EVER.

http://www.egmnow.com/articles/news/square-enix-president-claims-ffxi-was-most-profitable-final-fantasy-ever/

B)
US research firm Strategy Analytics has claimed that the "active installed base" of the PS3 has overtaken that of the Xbox 360. Apparently, Sony's machine reached 43.4 million at the end of 2010 compared to 42.9m for the Microsoft console.


Add to the fact that the Xbox 360 is DEAD in Japan. It is no longer even being sold there. And the wii... it sold many but has an active userbase of 12.

You also don't seem to realize how many of FFXI players were(are) on PS2. There are so many PS2 users in Japan that they are only releasing the PS2 version of the expansion in Japan.

So.. yeah. There's going to be a wave of PS3 players.
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#49 Jul 03 2012 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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PS2 release in US was tremendous iirc, as was Xbox 360.
FF14 has pretty high PC requirements, PS3 introduction could result in a similarly large player base boost.

can't wait for PS3 limitations!
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#50 Jul 03 2012 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
The thing that worries me the most about XIV is that they won't have been able to make the necessary changes by V2 to give themselves room to expand. From what it sounds like, 2.0 is just going to be an improved UI and graphics engine. SE is going to have to work some magic and make 2.0 feel like an expansion, but I get the feeling that it won't. If you check the roadmap there are still things that are considered fixes that you'd expect at re-launch that are basically just fixes and improvements rather than actual content or expansion. A lot of it is coming after re-launch too.


I know you're only going from what you read, but I'm going to have to disagree here (surprise!)

For 1, the current story will not be playable in 2.0. That means they will HAVE to have a new story, right? Boom, content.

Secondly, many of these changes and improvements are being made to make WAY for better content. Take, for instance, Hamlet Defense. With the current engine, they can only display 40 character models at any time, regardless of settings and hardware specs. So for Hamlet, they took what should have been an open world event and made it an instance.

Come 2.0, they've suggested that these events will be more akin to FFXI Campaign and not instance events, making them full-scale awesome. They have to instance A LOT of things (all) currently, but in 2.0 they will have much more flexability with content.

They have been trying to keep future content tight-lipped because of spoilers to the current story. Expect that to change soon, with 1.23 and GDC/TGS


I personally would expect the following in 2.0:
Bug Fixes
New Quests
New Missions
New Mobs
New areas
New NMs
New Gear
New Crafts
New Classes
New Jobs
Map redesign
New Combat types (specifically the expanded PVE such as Hamlet Def, and Avatar capturing)
New Abilities for existing Classes
New Abilities for existing Jobs
Rework of the Crafting mechanics
New Emotes
Better targeting system
Auction House
Delivery System
New Inventory management (Bags)
Removal of Outdated gear and items
Custom Party grouping (configure how you reference party members for better macro design)
Macros and items as actions (ability to add macros and items to your action bar)
New looting system(s)

On or shortly after 2.0
Player Housing
Alliance play
Increased level cap (hopefully at the release, but not holding my breath)
Group Crafting
Player linked ability chaining (e.g. Skill Chains/Battle Regimens)

That seems like a healthy list of new things to play with. I am expecting to stay pretty busy.

With a successful launch of those additions, I am expecting a healthy return of the Final Fantasy fans to the game, and with a "good" and "functioning" PS3 version of the game, it should bring in a group of players who held off for the console version.

The key to all of this will be the Beta. If the Beta is clean, and SE is responsive to issues brought up in the Beta, the game should be on a good track for recovery.

If the Beta is overly buggy, and/or SE fails to respond to the players (and I am not talking about the players that blow up the forums with their petty complaints), then we will be right back to where we were 2 years ago... SE has a chance few companies have, and it is going to be riddled with hecklers and dissenters, but, they have their second chance...
#51 Jul 03 2012 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Wow you guys really like to argue back and forth huh Smiley: glare

And no the game wont get 200-300k players from 2.0 just because of the Ps3, the Ps3 is the least popular of the consoles, most FF fans don't like FF online (FF has sold millions upon millions, yet his 2 online incarnations combined don't break a million subs combined at any point) if 2.0 is just a facelift and UI fix it will fail, the game needs content all around in order to be successful, SE needs to also makes up it's mind on who it will cater too, it cant keep catering half way to both demographics, the hardcore and the casuals, because it ends up ******* both off.



You... don't know things about games, do you?

A) FFXI is Squareenix's most PROFITABLE Final Fantasy title. EVER.

http://www.egmnow.com/articles/news/square-enix-president-claims-ffxi-was-most-profitable-final-fantasy-ever/

B)
US research firm Strategy Analytics has claimed that the "active installed base" of the PS3 has overtaken that of the Xbox 360. Apparently, Sony's machine reached 43.4 million at the end of 2010 compared to 42.9m for the Microsoft console.


Add to the fact that the Xbox 360 is DEAD in Japan. It is no longer even being sold there. And the wii... it sold many but has an active userbase of 12.

You also don't seem to realize how many of FFXI players were(are) on PS2. There are so many PS2 users in Japan that they are only releasing the PS2 version of the expansion in Japan.

So.. yeah. There's going to be a wave of PS3 players.


You.... probably should learn to read.... For if it is the most profitable or not was not the issue nor the argument, we where talking about population, and population wise FFXI never got past 500k Users! Period! The ps2 was the king of consoles in that era, FF was at it's biggest peak, yet none of that translated into subscriptions for FFX..... So tell me why will this time be any different ? FF is not what it used to be, that much is clear, FFXIV is not FFXI, and MMO are not what they used to be, FFXI had the perfect timing to become something alike to wow, instead it went EQ.

And nobody cares about japan.
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