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Do we have any reason to believe that 2.0 will succeed?Follow

#52 Jul 19 2012 at 9:12 PM Rating: Default
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kyara10 wrote:
Thank god. Cuz i dont know who you are and i have no ill feeling whatsoever towards you. Everyone argues on ZAM and when i said we'll talk after release i meant we'll see how it turns out. You burned me out tbh and i didnt feel like having this back and forth dance any more. And i get sub defaulted and accused of having a sock account...i dont even know mrmissles and he's posted ONE post directed at me and he's my sock account?

So much *** kissing on these boards too.


Like I said, I don't think it's you. Missile tends to white knight every cause he can on these boards and you just happened to be in the way. You did quite well defending your own point of view and being that the premise of the thread is speculation on what 2.0 will bring, I agree to waiting and seeing what happens.

I was just pointing out that the last time we took the 'wait and see' approach it was between beta test and launch and it didn't work out too well.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#53 Jul 19 2012 at 10:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Hopefully things turn out better round 2.
#54 Jul 20 2012 at 4:51 AM Rating: Default
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nekroturkey wrote:
Like a lot of other people, I'm very much looking forward to 2.0. However, with what we know about 2.0 and the current development team, do we really have any reason to believe that it'll succeed?

The current team behind the game has had less time and resources to develop 2.0 than the original team had for 1.0. In addition, while new director/producer Yoshida has played the part of the mascot perfectly, he doesn't have a whole lot of experience developing online games (or any games for that matter). On top of all that, they're trying to "fix" the PC version (with what little PC experience any of them have) while simultaneously developing the PS3 version.

Realistically, it doesn't seem like 2.0 has much of a chance (although I hope I'm wrong).


If what they have given us so far is anything to go off, it will fail.
They made the game playable yes but so many mistakes & bad & stupid choices, forced drawn out content. i dont know where to start & im sure there not finished yet.

So many things they said we will look into that need fixing now that can be fixed now, that wont be fixed even in 2.0.
Latencey that lets content favour japanese players only. & i know what your thinking it's still do'able...... yes but its not F'N easy & its designed for japanese players on there servers when tested, not for the rest of us.
Nerf'ing the wrong areas at the wrong times.

well i found somewhere to start.... i could do pages & give examples but i'll stop here.

Edited, Jul 20th 2012 6:56am by prymortal69
#55 Jul 20 2012 at 1:24 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:

If what they have given us so far is anything to go off, it will fail


All they've given us is a few screenshots, and this is what leads you to your opinion?

I'd hate to see you ordering food at a restaurant...
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#56 Jul 20 2012 at 6:05 PM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
[quote=kyara10]Like I said, I don't think it's you. Missile tends to white knight every cause he can on these boards and you just happened to be in the way. You did quite well defending your own point of view and being that the premise of the thread is speculation on what 2.0 will bring, I agree to waiting and seeing what happens.

I was just pointing out that the last time we took the 'wait and see' approach it was between beta test and launch and it didn't work out too well.


Tends to white knight? If anyone cares to believe this, can he or she please peddle up posts in where it's obvious that I "white knight" the game? I do play FFXIV, but so far FFXIV has not been the game I was hoping fot two years ago. I cannot wait to see how 2.0 turns out.

That is how far my White Knighting will go.

But let's talk about the person whose main goal is to talk people out of playing FFXIV.

*mimics obvious defence to that* .."Ohhhh... thank you for thinking that I have this kind of influence on people *slowclap*"... No, you dumbass, I am not saying that you HAVE that kind of influence. I am saying that you are making one **** of an attempt.

Filth cannot post five sentences about SE or FFXIV in a row without being negative or sarcastic towards either one of them. Every single change SE makes or announces to make or every single solution or wish expressed by someone on this forum will be met by a Filth who will shoot the entire thing down. BY DEFINITION. It's his Pavlov reaction! Optimism will be countered by pessimism.

And he has been like that for more than a year. And all this while he has not even been playing the game anymore.

Someone has made it his gimmick, his role, his purpose on SE to be negative. And that's when I say: he is either seriously mentally SICK... or he is actually playing a game in here. Cause what he is doing has nothing to do with some healthy interest in the game. The only indication of him wanting FFXIV to succeed is him telling the reader this every now and then at the very end of one of his rants. That's like trying to murder someone and covering ot up by telling people that you really want the person tolead a succesful life. I feel sorry for the people who still buy that nonsense.

In earlier posts I already wrote down Filth's main strategy, but I'm more than happy to do it again, just hoping that people who read this will take notice, recognize it and understand what he is doing.

1. To start off, Filth is well informed. I'll give him that. He either does his homework or read a lot of material about the game industry... or both. Ad the guy can write. This helps him a lot playing his little game/acting in the way his illness forces him to act. He makes himself come over like a FFXIV/MMO/Game industry expert. And this is dangerous, cause potential players could easily believe his words and decide not to give the game a fair chance. Filth is very aware of this word-to-mouth effect - he mentions it often enough - but at the same time he fails to see that he is actually doing his best to enlarge its effect with his over-the-top, disproportional, vendetta-like critique and gloomy outlook. (Filth response would be: "But I just give people my honest opinion"...but I doubt that. When someone continues to gives his opinion on a game over and over again long after he stopped playing it then most probaby something else is going on.)

2. It is Filth's rule to never ignore any opportunity to bash either FFXIV or SE. NEVER. Doesn't matter if the remark is far fetched or not, he will make it. Period.

3. Numbers are there to be used to make a point of course (see point 4 btw). However, the numbers used by others and/or their source can always be subject to questioning, and if they cannot, then he will give the subject a spin in order to make SE/FFXIV look bad anyway. After all, he has to stick to his goal.

4. If numbers are not available - which is the case lots of times - Filth will make 'estimates', and here is the kicker: he will justify those estimates by telling you that they are more than fair towards SE or FFXIV. So he pulls figures out of his ****, but makes them more credible by making you believe that the stuff he came up with are numbers SE would actually be happy with. Wrapped up nonsense, but people buy it anyway.

5. Another rule: ALWAYS have the last word on something. Key word is WINNING a debate, and you only WIN by...

6. (just mentioned in this thread by a/my...sock account(?), but I will mention it one more) wearing the opponent out. Overwhelm the person with facts, long posts, sometimes posted minutes after one's reply and continue to do that till either he or she makes an error or posts something that isn't entirely correct (so he can go for the kill) or gives up because... a normal person does not have the time to do all the homework needed to unmask Filth as the bullsh*tter he is or the energy one needs to expose his way of reasoning and hidden agenda.

And of course it's not only me who sees Filth's behavior as completely ridiculous. Look at what has been written on ZAM so far. Plenty of people - also neutral and very critical ones - confronted Filth with his attitude and he keeps on writing that he wants the game to succeed. And nowadays he also claims that his predictions have come true. Which ones....? No clue. I'm not going to read through 1560 posts to see what Nostradamus McNasty has been predicting in the past. But whatever it was, I bet the majority has been predicting the very same thing (<-- this very sentence would be a line Filth would pick up and use to criticize SE/FFXIV once more... I know how he operates).

Anyway, a few weeks ago Filth told me he was going to ignore my posts. Cause this is Filth as well: I responsed to poster Ostia, so it is Filth who had to respond to my reply being the Mr. Wisecrack he tries to be sometimes, and then... when I reply to him all of a sudden it is me who is troling him. And why is that? Because he was most probably butthurt because poster Louiscool (I think) accused him of trolling two days earlier. Filth loves to dish out, but receiving... ouch! Not so.

He has a huge ego... just too bad that it is made of glass.

Filth, if you read this: I really respect for replying to someone's technical questions. Your answers seem to be spot on and very helpful. Other than that: if you would be a friend of mine and I would know about your behavior on this forum, this... obsession with a game you do not even play anymore, I would seriously try to arrange an intervention.

And this is my last post about Filth, directed to Filth or instigated directly by Filth. It's going to be difficult sometimes because Filth is all over the FFXIV pages on ZAM, but I'll do my very best.

PS: English is not my first language, and it is 2:24 am for me. Please realize that the grammar and spelling in this post would be as good as flawless in my own language. :)

Edit: minor things. Done now.

Edited, Jul 20th 2012 8:32pm by MrMissile
#57 Jul 20 2012 at 7:38 PM Rating: Decent
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MrMissile wrote:
tl;dr


FYI Missile unlike you, I do know how to use the ignore feature. I have invited you to several times, but for the last time I ask that you return the favor. It will save you the embarrassment of going to all the trouble knowing you'll be ignored, at least by me, and make you look less... desperate.

Kyara10 did a fine job making her(name is feminine, no offense if you're not female) point and she didn't need you to come to her aid. People have argued since the dawn of man and will continue to do so well into the future. Deal with it Smiley: cool
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#58 Jul 20 2012 at 7:42 PM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
All they've given us is a few screenshots, and this is what leads you to your opinion?

I'd hate to see you ordering food at a restaurant...


To be fair, the 'what they have given us so far' could be the changes they've made over the past 2 years. If that is what we're basing their ability to adapt, create and implement content on then I think most people would agree.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#59 Jul 20 2012 at 8:57 PM Rating: Good
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Personally I think there's a good chance 2.0 will succeed. The content updates and bug fixes we've been getting over the past 2 years for 1.0+ has been paltry at best and some additions (like the mercantile houses) seem like a quick band-aid fix to resolve an issue (lack of real AH). Now here's where it can be put up to interpretation:

- Are they spending more resources building the game on the new graphics engine and therefore don't have the resources left to make the major changes to the 1.0+ versions we're wanting or

- Are they so inept at building an MMO that the paltry updates in 1.0+ are a sign of potential trouble with 2.0?

I prefer to think it's the first option, talking from experience working in a development house that has had to support an old AND new version of the same software at the same time.
It's bad when a free-to-play Korean MMO has all the modern features of an MMO (AH, mailbox system, unique zones, working guild system, etc) than FFXIV had. I'm talking about Vindictus, recently played it for a bit since it showed up on Steam. I downloaded that game for $0 and it has $0 monthly fee and was actually very fun to play for my wife and I. Going back to FFXIV something just felt wrong, like major pieces were missing..like it wasn't a complete MMO because it was actually lacking these features and I am paying a fee to play. I felt like I wasn't getting my money's worth anymore.

My opinion is 2.0 will absolutely have to have these to be successful:

* A working AH that is easy to search and navigate, as well as convenient to put items up for auction.
* A working mailbox system to go along with the AH
* A painless process for forming groups
* More controls over linkshell membership
* Clear requirements for content, clear goals when engaged in said content
* A better, more coherent story (I'm sorry, I hated the story missions. They were ****-easy and made almost no sense).
* Better character customization - more ways to make your character your own.
* Revamp the crafting system entirely. Seriously it's so bad I consider it a deal-maker.
* No UI lag.... please...no UI lag...why is that still in there??
* Player housing and storage

I realize some of those have already been mentioned by SE, such as the character customization and graphics engine optimization, mailbox and AH. They still have to be implemented well at launch to make a difference... no one is going to want to wait to see them implemented or improved while SE charges them every month. It's just that FFXIV has to compete with so much to be successful- Guild Wars 2, upcoming PSO2, the WoW expansion, Diablo III, SWTOR, Rift, FFXI- people will have to want to either invest more time into those games AND FFXIV or leave their game of choice in favor of FFXIV. If they can't do what these other games do but better, they don't have a chance. I mean that for all the aspects of the game, not just what I listed above. Here's to hoping.
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#60 Jul 21 2012 at 2:46 AM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
All they've given us is a few screenshots, and this is what leads you to your opinion?

I'd hate to see you ordering food at a restaurant...


To be fair, the 'what they have given us so far' could be the changes they've made over the past 2 years. If that is what we're basing their ability to adapt, create and implement content on then I think most people would agree.


You can block me but still respond to my messages, you can make people believe that I troll you while in fact you troll every positive thought or idea or piece of hope regarding FFXIV and/or 2.0 expressed on this forum, and you can whine about being karma bombed to the pointed where you get rated up and the people you disagree with get karma bombed...

... I know that you know that I see right through you and the stupid tactics you use to camouflage your obsessions, namely winning an argument and trashing SE and their games. And there will always be people who disagree with you. They are not white knights, just people who actually play the game. Deal with it!

Now do you want to do me a favor? Stop mentioning my name in your posts and stop being suspicious about other posters. Can you do that? Why would you still be busy with someone you blocked? Haha, I got to you, didn't I? Hey... deal with it.

Remember, the world is not out there to get you, nor a single person like me. You are only out there to get SE, so have fun. 2.0 will come anyway, and many people will give it a shot anyway, and many people will decide for themselves whether they like it or not. You cannot stop that buddy, not even if you post 10 messages per thread. Deal with it!

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 5:40am by MrMissile
#61 Jul 21 2012 at 5:38 AM Rating: Decent
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MrMissile wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
All they've given us is a few screenshots, and this is what leads you to your opinion?

I'd hate to see you ordering food at a restaurant...


To be fair, the 'what they have given us so far' could be the changes they've made over the past 2 years. If that is what we're basing their ability to adapt, create and implement content on then I think most people would agree.


You can block me but still respond to my messages, you can make people believe that I troll you while in fact you troll every positive thought or idea or piece of hope regarding FFXIV and/or 2.0 expressed on this forum, and you can whine about being karma bombed to the pointed where you get rated up and the people you disagree with get karma bombed...

... I know that you know that I see right through you and the stupid tactics you use to camouflage your obsessions, namely winning an argument and trashing SE and their games. And there will always be people who disagree with you. They are not white knights, just people who actually play the game. Deal with it!

Now do you want to do me a favor? Stop mentioning my name in your posts and stop being suspicious about other posters. Can you do that? Why would you still be busy with someone you blocked? Haha, I got to you, didn't I? Hey... deal with it.

Remember, the world is not out there to get you, nor a single person like me. You are only out there to get SE, so have fun. 2.0 will come anyway, and many people will give it a shot anyway, and many people will decide for themselves whether they like it or not. You cannot stop that buddy, not even if you post 10 messages per thread. Deal with it!

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 5:40am by MrMissile






You are in fact one of the biggest white knights here, and from what I've seen from your post history you go out of your way to attack people a lot also.
#62 Jul 21 2012 at 5:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Devildawgs wrote:


You are in fact one of the biggest white knights here, and from what I've seen from your post history you go out of your way to attack people a lot also.


Weren't you the one who went he is neo and you are agent Smith guy when Filthy McNasty was in one of the many, many argument he has been having so far? If Missile is a white knight than McNasty is by far the biggest dark knight on ZAM. He attacks people frequently and sarcasm and insults are his trademark next to the other things already written about them. Missile's second last post should actually be a sticky. It tells people exactly where your douchebag friend comes from.

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 8:55am by Woofdram
#63 Jul 21 2012 at 12:59 PM Rating: Decent
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FFS can you guys take your bickering to private chats?
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#64 Jul 21 2012 at 1:05 PM Rating: Default
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Woofdram wrote:
If Missile is a white knight than McNasty is by far the biggest dark knight on ZAM. He attacks people frequently and sarcasm and insults are his trademark next to the other things already written about them.


What exactly is a 'dark knight'? If it's supposed to be the opposite of a white knight then you're assuming, incorrectly I might add, that XIV is a game that isn't deserving of the criticism it receives.

I'll admit to being sarcastic, but I don't attack anyone unless provoked.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#65 Jul 21 2012 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Woofdram wrote:
If Missile is a white knight than McNasty is by far the biggest dark knight on ZAM. He attacks people frequently and sarcasm and insults are his trademark next to the other things already written about them.


What exactly is a 'dark knight'? If it's supposed to be the opposite of a white knight then you're assuming, incorrectly I might add, that XIV is a game that isn't deserving of the criticism it receives.

I'll admit to being sarcastic, but I don't attack anyone unless provoked.


There is no game on the planet that deserves the repetitive criticism you are posting.

But what exactly is a 'white knight'? If it's supposed to be someone who doesn't whine all the time but actually hopes that the changes that are made will work out fine, then you're assuming, incorrectly I might add, that XIV is a game that doesn't have any potential.
#66 Jul 21 2012 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Woofdram wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Woofdram wrote:
If Missile is a white knight than McNasty is by far the biggest dark knight on ZAM. He attacks people frequently and sarcasm and insults are his trademark next to the other things already written about them.


What exactly is a 'dark knight'? If it's supposed to be the opposite of a white knight then you're assuming, incorrectly I might add, that XIV is a game that isn't deserving of the criticism it receives.

I'll admit to being sarcastic, but I don't attack anyone unless provoked.


There is no game on the planet that deserves the repetitive criticism you are posting.


Any and every game on the planet that provides service that any and every person on said planet knows is not up to standard deserves criticism, especially when the company is charging standard rate for that service. If you look at one of the 'Is XIV worth playing yet' threads from now, another from 6 months ago and another from a year ago they all look the same. The reason for this(and the reason why the criticism seems repetitive, because it is) is because the same issues still persist.

Woofdram wrote:
But what exactly is a 'white knight'?

In the simplest sense, the white knight is the guy who comes to the aid of the damsel in distress. I would hope this idea isn't foreign to you as a gamer since it's such a common theme, but lets use another example...

SE is on trial for murdering the development and release of FFXIV. The white knights are the team of people who's job it is(at least in their eyes) to defend SE. SE has already admitted guilt(see apology from Wada) and is ready to 'serve time' by trying to repair the game and their reputation(via 2.0), yet the knights still feel it necessary to try and clear SE's name.

Woofdram wrote:
If it's supposed to be someone who doesn't whine all the time but actually hopes that the changes that are made will work out fine, then you're assuming, incorrectly I might add, that XIV is a game that doesn't have any potential.


To be fair, all the whining you are referring to is what set SE in action to fix the mess in the first place. If instead all the knights and cheerleaders had their way and no one complained, SE would continue along like there were no issues.

SE has as much potential as any other game and I'll give them a nod for even more, considering that no game has ever come out of the hole they are attempting to clear themselves from. However, until that potential is realized in the form of concrete changes that solidify and make 2.0 the update that everyone has been hoping for, all it will ever be is potential.

Like I have said before, when you lie to your customers you can't expect them to take you at your word after that. This is the reason for the skepticism and doubt. Not because I'm an @#%^, because I am... but because I'm an @#%^ that doesn't appreciate being lied to and won't blindly trust again after being burned.

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 5:46pm by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#67 Jul 21 2012 at 4:31 PM Rating: Default
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Nah...

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 6:38pm by MrMissile
#68 Jul 21 2012 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

In the simplest sense, the white knight is the guy who comes to the aid of the damsel in distress. I would hope this idea isn't foreign to you as a gamer since it's such a common theme, but lets use another example...

SE is on trial for murdering the development and release of FFXIV. The white knights are the team of people who's job it is(at least in their eyes) to defend SE. SE has already admitted guilt(see apology from Wada) and is ready to 'serve time' by trying to repair the game and their reputation(via 2.0), yet the knights still feel it necessary to try and clear SE's name.


There are very few people stupid enough to defend SE or clear SE's name for their decision to release FFXIV in the state it was 2 years ago. Could it be that you are just looking for them because you like the bickering? But if this is your definition of a white knight then I think a dark knight would be a person who keeps dragging SE to court despite their apologies and despite the announcement of major changes that will eventually result in 2.0. And it is nonsense to be like that, because 2.0 will not arrive any sooner.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
To be fair, all the whining you are referring to is what set SE in action to fix the mess in the first place. If instead all the knights and cheerleaders had their way and no one complained, SE would continue along like there were no issues.


That's a weird argument coming from someone who claims that SE does not listen to its customers. Or do they only listen if it conveniently backs up your argument? I would say that it was the drop in subscriptions that made SE realize that the game was in such a terrible shape that something had to be done. I do not think that broken records can fix broken games, and they won't speed up developments either.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
SE has as much potential as any other game and I'll give them a nod for even more, considering that no game has ever come out of the hole they are attempting to clear themselves from. However, until that potential is realized in the form of concrete changes that solidify and make 2.0 the update that everyone has been hoping for, all it will ever be is potential.


Indeed. So stay away until 2.0 comes out. At this moment you are wasting your time. Unless, of course, you just love to bicker.
#69 Jul 21 2012 at 7:40 PM Rating: Default
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Relax guy's Guild Wars 2 is way to awesome, unless SE from today, until release works only and only on content and i mean LOTS AND LOTS of Content! This game is dead on the water(Ofcourse not for the 15-20k that play this game even if is the worst MMO out there right now) but for everybody else it will be.


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#70 Jul 22 2012 at 12:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Woofdram wrote:
But if this is your definition of a white knight then I think a dark knight would be a person who keeps dragging SE to court despite their apologies and despite the announcement of major changes that will eventually result in 2.0. And it is nonsense to be like that, because 2.0 will not arrive any sooner.


It's not my definition, it's the generally accepted usage. Black knight isn't a term being used by anyone, but I'd expect it would be the opposite. It would be someone attacking someone or something for being something that it's not or being accusatory for crimes which were not committed in the case of the example.

Woofdram wrote:
That's a weird argument coming from someone who claims that SE does not listen to its customers. Or do they only listen if it conveniently backs up your argument? I would say that it was the drop in subscriptions that made SE realize that the game was in such a terrible shape that something had to be done. I do not think that broken records can fix broken games, and they won't speed up developments either.


They didn't listen when it mattered, which was during testing. It wasn't the drop in subs because almost all of the announcements regarding taking player input more seriously came before the sharp drop in players. Wada's apology, Tanaka's outing, the official forums and player polling were all implemented prior to subscription fees and at a time where the population of the game was still well above where it is today.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#71 Jul 22 2012 at 2:21 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
It's not my definition, it's the generally accepted usage. Black knight isn't a term being used by anyone, .


I have seen it before.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
but I'd expect it would be the opposite. It would be someone attacking someone or something for being something that it's not or being accusatory for crimes which were not committed in the case of the example..


No, I think my definition is more accurate. White knights continue to defend, so dark knights are people who continue to attack. And you act like their High Priest. People who just attack because of nothing serious are people who just complain.

Woofdram wrote:
That's a weird argument coming from someone who claims that SE does not listen to its customers. Or do they only listen if it conveniently backs up your argument? I would say that it was the drop in subscriptions that made SE realize that the game was in such a terrible shape that something had to be done. I do not think that broken records can fix broken games, and they won't speed up developments either.


FilthMcNasty wrote:
They didn't listen when it mattered, which was during testing.


That was two yars ago, they admitted guilt, they do pay attention to what players are saying (and get criticised for it in this very same thread) and you are still ******** about it. Do you understand how pathetic that looks?

FilthMcNasty wrote:
It wasn't the drop in subs because almost all of the announcements regarding taking player input more seriously came before the sharp drop in players. Wada's apology, Tanaka's outing, the official forums and player polling were all implemented prior to subscription fees and at a time where the population of the game was still well above where it is today.


They had a bad game, People left. only then they stopped charging people and told them that they would try to make the game worth paying for. That's when they implemented their own forum, and that's when player polling was used. There were players that left a free game, and later there were players who refused to pay for the game SE thought of as worth charging money for. Other people stayed, some people came back, quite a few players cannot wait to try 2.0 and lots of PS3 players will hopefully be able to play the game that should have been released two years ago.

But do not think that your criticism is responsible for the changes. No company is going to take the repetivive rants of a former player seriously.
#72 Jul 22 2012 at 3:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Woofdram wrote:
I have seen it before.


[citation needed]

Woofdram wrote:
That was two yars ago, they admitted guilt, they do pay attention to what players are saying (and get criticised for it in this very same thread) and you are still ******** about it. Do you understand how pathetic that looks?


All I did was point out that the mistakes they made back then have brought us to where we are now. The past affects the future, not the other way around. You disagree?

Woofdram wrote:
They had a bad game, People left. only then they stopped charging people and told them that they would try to make the game worth paying for.


Facts... get them straight. FFXIV was free for well over a year and never charged a monthly subscription fee prior to January of this year. They hemorrhaged all those players while the game was B2P. Surprisingly, and people who keep track of population will back this up, but they really didn't lose many players over the past few months. The majority left well before SE even started talk of subscription fee.

Woofdram wrote:
That's when they implemented their own forum...


Actually, no. The official forum was launched nearly a year prior to subscription fees and many polls were conducted before fees were even mentioned.

Woofdram wrote:
But do not think that your criticism is responsible for the changes.


I never tried to imply that my opinion alone prompted SE to take a serious look at XIV, apologize to the playerbase, implement more features for the community or any of the other changes they have implemented or plan to in the future. In the age of the internet, word of mouth travels at the speed of light and can and will decimate anything in it's path. XIV was no exception. I don't expect them to bend to my will, but when the opinion I hold is echoed by thousands of other players as it was in the months leading up to launch and even today, companies fall in line or they fall the **** off.

____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#73 Jul 22 2012 at 5:14 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

All I did was point out that the mistakes they made back then have brought us to where we are now. The past affects the future, not the other way around. You disagree?


All you did, and still do, is pointing the same thing out countless times. But the present does not affect the past. You disagree with that?

If not, then why do you continue to complain about the past when the future (2.0) still has to be released?

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Facts... get them straight. FFXIV was free for well over a year and never charged a monthly subscription fee prior to January of this year. They hemorrhaged all those players while the game was B2P. Surprisingly, and people who keep track of population will back this up, but they really didn't lose many players over the past few months. The majority left well before SE even started talk of subscription fee.


No, let's not play your game. Let's do things differently this time: you give me numbers, and in a timeline format please. Player numbers, when announcements were made, when plans were being impemented. You seem to have all the time in the world and all the facts already in your head, so I do not think it is an outrageous request from my side. Let's see how your facts will alter my conclusion.

FilthMcNasty wrote:

Woofdram wrote:
That's when they implemented their own forum...


Actually, no. The official forum was launched nearly a year prior to subscription fees and many polls were conducted before fees were even mentioned.


What did I write? But while you are getting these numbers, also ask yourself what the main factors were that made SE take measures: the bad reviews in magazines, bad sales and the drop in subscriptions, or the complaints on forums like this one.

FilthMcNasty wrote:

but when the opinion I hold is echoed by thousands of other players as it was in the months leading up to launch and even today, companies fall in line or they fall the @#%^ off.


It's not your opinion alone. You just perfectionized it because you have been repeating the very same things people were saying almost two years ago (but stopped posting), and practise makes perfect.. You have been your own echo for over a year now and I predict that even if 2.0 will turn out to be a success, you will still continue to ***** about the FFXIV of two years ago just because it is a fact from the past that cannot be changed. It's a solid argument and a sure win for someone who likes to bicker. I understand that.

I cannot be any more clear at this, so unless you can show me the timeline info I requested I am done
#74 Jul 22 2012 at 7:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Woofdram wrote:
All you did, and still do, is pointing the same thing out countless times. But the present does not affect the past. You disagree with that?


The launch was bad whether you assess the situation two years ago or today. You're making my point for me... thanks?

Woofdram wrote:
No, let's not play your game.

Since when did correcting your false statements become a game?
Woofdram wrote:
They had a bad game, People left. only then they stopped charging people and told them that they would try to make the game worth paying for.

Your statement clearly states incorrectly that they were charging for the game and stopped. The subscription fee started earlier this year. The reason I am pointing this out is because you seem to think that a drop in subscriptions was the cause for SE taking action. There were never any subscriptions before they decided to rebuild XIV in 2.0 Woofdram. The population was declining while the game was completely free to play (outside of the cost of the disc)... capeesh?

It wasn't possible for XIV to lose subscribers until they actually started charging a subscription fee, which would be earlier this year... way, way past the time everything we were discussing happened. What happened was people decided that even though there was no subscription fee, XIV wasn't worth their time.

The reason that my posts seem repetitive to you is that you don't seem to get it the first time around. Is there another way that it might sink in so I don't have to keep repeating myself? Colored font perhaps?

Woofdram wrote:
It's not your opinion alone. You just perfectionized it because you have been repeating the very same things people were saying almost two years ago (but stopped posting), and practise makes perfect.

I am repeating the same things people were saying two years ago? Now why would I do that? Oh, that's right... the same problems still exist. It was relevant 2 years ago and still relevant today, tomorrow and until they actually do something to fix it. That may come with 2.0 and despite what you think I hope it does, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not here now.

Woofdram wrote:
I cannot be any more clear at this, so unless you can show me the timeline info I requested I am done


You were done the moment you based your conclusion about why SE decided to make changes on false information.

I cannot provide you with exact population because the data simply didn't exist beyond a certain point. Why? SE implemented a patch that removed the ability to see how many players were online by using the search feature. Any guess as to why SE might remove the ability to see how many(better yet, how few) people were logged in? Take a stab. It's all speculation, but they obviously didn't want people tracking population. You can find info on this forum from before the patch where people were posting the populations for their specific servers at various times of the day. I'll let you find that on your own because I don't want to spoil it for you.

If I recall correctly, there was someone or a group of people who were parsing character data after the changes to search. They compared a character's data at different times of the week and checked for change in levels to determine if the character was active or not. However, this data isn't conclusive evidence since people are allowed multiple characters on a service account. There was still no way to track the number of unique accounts that were active.

As for the timeline, if you want exact dates you'll have to track them down yourself. This old dog doesn't play fetch.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#75 Jul 22 2012 at 9:11 AM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

The launch was bad whether you assess the situation two years ago or today. You're making my point for me... thanks?


And you are repeating other people's point. And my point. Actually, you are making my point every day. Only I don't bring it up anymore. It's been two years ago and they have been doing their best to fix it, so why would I? It's an ancient point. Why would you?

FilthMcNasty wrote:

Woofdram wrote:
No, let's not play your game.

Since when did correcting your false statements become a game?


The game you play when you debate. Disprove my conclusion with a timeline including numbers please.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
The population was declining while the game was completely free to play (outside of the cost of the disc)... capeesh?


Here you are indeed correct. People didn't want to get billed, so they left. True. But it is a very unimportant detail, a technicality (lol@false statement... like we're at a murder trial here). Actually paying versus about to pay. It lead to the same result: players disappeared.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
The reason that my posts seem repetitive to you is that you don't seem to get it the first time around. Is there another way that it might sink in so I don't have to keep repeating myself? Colored font perhaps?


Why do you feel so strong about this? So many times, so little time, What made you dedicate your spare time to making sure that the whole world knows that SE screwed up big time two years ago? What happened?

Is it only the disappointment? Today you even called someone who thinks that FFXI was a good SE game a comedian, so it cannot be your expectations, can it? Again, I think it is because you just love to bicker.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I am repeating the same things people were saying two years ago? Now why would I do that? Oh, that's right... the same problems still exist. It was relevant 2 years ago and still relevant today, tomorrow and until they actually do something to fix it. That may come with 2.0 and despite what you think I hope it does, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not here now.


So let me get this straight: you admit to being someone who keeps on whining about something even if people are doing their best to fix it?

So your bike as a flat tire and you won't stop crying your eyeballs out and throwing tantrums till daddy is done fixing your bike. Can you picture it? And you think it is absolutely normal. Even for a grown up. Glad that we have straightened this out.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I cannot provide you with exact population because the data simply didn't exist beyond a certain point. (...) You can find info on this forum from before the patch where people were posting the populations for their specific servers at various times of the day. I'll let you find that on your own because I don't want to spoil it for you. (...) As for the timeline, if you want exact dates you'll have to track them down yourself. This old dog doesn't play fetch.


Without numbers we cannot prove a thing, can we? What a shame, what a shame. The figures would not have change my conclusion, so it's no biggie. Bad reviews, bad sales and a fast drop in players were the main reasons why SE decided to act, not the disappointed people on ZAM and other forums. If people would have continued to play, then nothing would have happened.

So thankl yuou for not playing Filth McNasty. That helped. But you reminding them of a terrible release two years after they already admitted to that did not help at all. Still doesn't,.
#76 Jul 22 2012 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Woofdram wrote:
Disprove my conclusion with a timeline including numbers please.


Your conclusion is disproved by anyone with common knowledge of XIV. Why couldn't you be bothered to click the link and read it for yourself? As much as I'd like to, I'm not going to hold your hand through the process of you discovering that you're a dumbass. I'd much rather you put it together on your own. ****, maybe you'll even gather up the strength to admit that you were wrong, though I highly doubt that. You seem like you'd gladly just continue on with your hands over your eyes.

Good luck with that.



Edited, Jul 22nd 2012 7:00pm by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#77 Jul 23 2012 at 1:35 AM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Your conclusion is disproved by anyone with common knowledge of XIV. Why couldn't you be bothered to click the link and read it for yourself? As much as I'd like to, I'm not going to hold your hand through the process of you discovering that you're a dumbass. I'd much rather you put it together on your own. ****, maybe you'll even gather up the strength to admit that you were wrong, though I highly doubt that. You seem like you'd gladly just continue on with your hands over your eyes.

Good luck with that.


First false statements, and now the term common knowledge? Well, well, you really think big words like these will make others think that you are right and the other is wrong, don't you?

I was wondering, what would happen to you if FFXIV 2.0 turns out to be a complete disaster as well, everybody would stop playing and all kind of posters called, say, Venom McPoison, Fighty O'Bicker or Naggy McWhine would crawl out of the woodwork here on ZAM doing an even better job at mentioning the bad release of two years ago, stealing your spotlight? Wouldn't that leave an tremendous gap in your life? Would a new MMO be able to fill it?

Let's not think about that yet, ok? Let's hope 2.0 will turn out just fine. Cheers! And good luck to you too.

*Anticipating a reply again (probably another meaningless technicality, or repeating his last couple of posts) , cause obviously Filth McNasty has a problem with letting go of things. It has to stop somewhere of course, so let me the one who will end this.*
#78 Jul 23 2012 at 3:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Woofdram wrote:
First false statements, and now the term common knowledge? Well, well, you really think big words like these will make others think that you are right and the other is wrong, don't you?


Scroll up, click the link and read the article. If that's too much for you then go to google and type in 'FFXIV subscription fee'. There are over 50,000 results for you to choose from. Unfortunately for you, all of them will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are wrong.

I'd be willing to bet that despite anyone in these forum's personal feelings they may harbor for anything I have said about their beloved XIV, they're still not stupid enough not to know when they are being charged.

Doofram wrote:
I was wondering, what would happen to you if FFXIV 2.0 turns out to be a complete disaster as well, everybody would stop playing and all kind of posters called, say, Venom McPoison, Fighty O'Bicker or Naggy McWhine would crawl out of the woodwork here on ZAM doing an even better job at mentioning the bad release of two years ago, stealing your spotlight? Wouldn't that leave an tremendous gap in your life?


I'm flattered that you think people would imitate me on these boards. 7/10 for the attempted deflection.

Even if that did happen, the gap in my life wouldn't be nearly as large as the gap between your ears.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#79 Jul 23 2012 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
All I know is that I'm going to keep playing FFXIV and that I can't wait for 2.0 to be released because Male Miqo'te's just sound fabulous! Final has come a long way since release, it was terrible then and my computer couldn't handle it so I had to quit. Now I have a better desktop and I'm back in the saddle for more of the game that I just can't seem to leave.
#80 Jul 23 2012 at 5:14 PM Rating: Good
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You can add one tactile reason to the speculation: They found a group of players not scarred by FFXIV's bad initial release in the largest MMO marketplace this world has: China.

Even if FFXIV finds only a niche audience among Chinese players, we're still talking easily 100~500k players from China alone.

I didn't think it was even on the table, but they're going to go do it. That's a huge player pool to tap from.
#81 Jul 23 2012 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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^^^ True but, that will be way after 2.0 goes life world wide, if it fails, china wont save the game, for it would have failed 2 times in a row, after that, nobody cares anymore, **** nobody cares today lol imagine if it fails again <.<
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#82 Jul 23 2012 at 9:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
They found a group of players not scarred by FFXIV's bad initial release in the largest MMO marketplace this world has: China.

Even if FFXIV finds only a niche audience among Chinese players, we're still talking easily 100~500k players from China alone.


Seeing as how probably half of the active accounts are RMT bots, I think your numbers might even be a bit low Smiley: lol
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#83 Jul 25 2012 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
All they've given us is a few screenshots, and this is what leads you to your opinion?

I'd hate to see you ordering food at a restaurant...


To be fair, the 'what they have given us so far' could be the changes they've made over the past 2 years. If that is what we're basing their ability to adapt, create and implement content on then I think most people would agree.


If that's "what they've given us" then I would most certainly disagree.

The changes over the past two years have been a great lifesaver to the game, and the major changes we want that couldn't be implemented are due to server and client restrictions that can't be changed until 2.0.


To that end, I am optimistic and hopeful for 2.0, but tempering expectations until we see some actual gameplay and footage.
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#84 Jul 25 2012 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Woofdram wrote:
But if this is your definition of a white knight then I think a dark knight would be a person who keeps dragging SE to court despite their apologies and despite the announcement of major changes that will eventually result in 2.0. And it is nonsense to be like that, because 2.0 will not arrive any sooner.


It's not my definition, it's the generally accepted usage. Black knight isn't a term being used by anyone, but I'd expect it would be the opposite. It would be someone attacking someone or something for being something that it's not or being accusatory for crimes which were not committed in the case of the example.

Woofdram wrote:
That's a weird argument coming from someone who claims that SE does not listen to its customers. Or do they only listen if it conveniently backs up your argument? I would say that it was the drop in subscriptions that made SE realize that the game was in such a terrible shape that something had to be done. I do not think that broken records can fix broken games, and they won't speed up developments either.


They didn't listen when it mattered, which was during testing. It wasn't the drop in subs because almost all of the announcements regarding taking player input more seriously came before the sharp drop in players. Wada's apology, Tanaka's outing, the official forums and player polling were all implemented prior to subscription fees and at a time where the population of the game was still well above where it is today.


Sorry Filth, I know you are having fun with this, but I gotta call BS on this.

I had a nice long rant about it, but figured, just keep it simple:
Since I payed for three 1 year subscriptions at the launch of the game, and Yoshi didn't come in until much later than that, I find it very hard to believe that I missed the polls or an apology that came out before I received the three copies of the collectors edition that we installed in the house.

And yes, before you really go into it, they stayed in trial mode, and they never charged me (and they even canceled my subscriptions themselves when they went to the indefinite trial period). But yes, there was a mass-Exodus from the game in the first 30 days. SE even goes as far as to imply the mass-Exodus was occuring (and get called out on it)
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/news/detail?newsId=60bd5ecff1b7645d4e1ead107941f0d8c4e88994
http://slashdot.org/story/10/10/16/1241202/Square-Enix-Attempting-emFinal-Fantasy-XIVem-Damage-Control
#85 Jul 25 2012 at 4:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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New to the forums, figured this would be a good topic to start with.

I played FFXIV Beta, loved the graphical power this game brought to the MMO table. I thought it was truly revolutionary, finally something new-ish. Graphically amazing, the story seemed better than most MMO's and it had SE behind it. The developer of FFXI, my all time favorite MMORPG to date. Got deeper into the beta and realised that SE has really screwed the pooch. Fatigue System, clunky UI, confusing questlines and player cities..it really threw me for a loop.

After reading that the fatigue system has been lifted I thought why not load the game up, I have been holding onto my CE copy since day 1 just waiting for a good time or maybe HOPING for a good time to load it up. Well, on the doorstep to 2.0 I believe there to be no better time.

Graphically the game now is beautiful, the world immense but with 2.0 it looks to get even better. Maybe even take me away from GW2 and be the time sink FFXI used to be. Although it isn't 2003 anymore and I play on a 1500.00 PC and have a Career blah blah etc I am HOPING that 2.0 refreshes this game and brings back the fans that left it behind not so long ago.

With the people working on this game, who knows? I've never built a house with my bare hands but if you throw me onto a construction site I'll figure it out...or destroy the project as a whole lol. We'll see, we'll see...

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#86 Jul 25 2012 at 5:40 PM Rating: Decent
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rfolkker wrote:
I had a nice long rant about it, but figured, just keep it simple:
they stayed in trial mode, and they never charged me


Could have stopped here. You made my point for me.

All I was pointing out was that the subscription fee was not the cause of people leaving the game. It couldn't have been because people left the game before SE started charging for it. SE didn't start charging for it because they didn't feel it was worth the fee, nevermind what anyone else thought.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#87 Jul 25 2012 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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1,606 posts
Dang Filthy!

First you and magicmissile go at it and I guess he had to go on break and then woofy takes the next shift. You really seem to push some buttons.

I say keep on keeping on with the criticism to remind people that right now 2.0 is 100% hype until we are playing it ourselves.

You and magic/woofy have a yin and yang thing going on so you guys kind of even the forum out lol
#88 Jul 25 2012 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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I think lot of expectation of FFXIV 2.0 is to compete with other leading MMO's which isn't the case. This isn't suppose to be an update with new content, this is suppose to fix the original version. Original FFXI or vanilla WoW wasn't anything compared to what they turned into. The games develop through updates / expansions.

FFXIV's battle system sucked, leveling sucked, UI was a nightmare, and the job / crafting system was such an incoherent mess that most players quit within the first week. 2.0 is suppose to fix these issues, and restart from day 1. It should be treated as a brand new MMO with many updates and adventures to come, not a "finished" game with all content released. The mentality should switch from "SE is a huge game developer and they promised us miracles. 2.0 should have me as hooked as FFXI did" to "SE got a second chance, if they fix the basics, let's see how far they can take this game"
#89 Jul 25 2012 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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MrTalos wrote:
First you and magicmissile go at it and I guess he had to go on break and then woofy takes the next shift.


Missile spent a lot of time making long winded posts about how negative I am, not realizing how negative he was being about me. Hypocritical and funny how much it was, but there was only so much I could take before I had to ignore him.

Woof on the other hand just doesn't know any better. I thought it was common knowledge when SE started charging a subscription fee, but apparently that's 'big words' to Woof. Why do they call it common sense? It really isn't all that common...

Edited, Jul 25th 2012 11:16pm by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#90 Jul 25 2012 at 9:28 PM Rating: Decent
The real question bugging me as I purchased the game yesterday, is did they spend the last year or two trying to do voice-over in the game. Something more than grunts will be nice. Or if I need to update my sound card driver or something, please advise ...
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#91 Jul 26 2012 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
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ParalyzingAgent wrote:
The real question bugging me as I purchased the game yesterday, is did they spend the last year or two trying to do voice-over in the game. Something more than grunts will be nice. Or if I need to update my sound card driver or something, please advise ...


Yoshi answered that in a recent interview. He had to choose between volume and depth vs voice (consider it the ever popular pyramid where you have to take away from one side to add to another). As a result, Voices will only be in major quests (Story/GC), and will not be in side quests. And even in the Story/GC I would say don't expect much (any of the more Epic quests).

Personally, I am still fine with this idea, as there are just a ton of innate issues with voice acting in games (yes, it's "easy" to get in, but, logistically it's a nightmare on the backend).
#92 Jul 26 2012 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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660 posts
I think FFFXIV had the added challenge of every developer and production studio making an MMO to be released after it having something to look at and say, "see that ****? Don't be like that" while pointing a stern finger at a copy of FFXIV.

They really set the bar for how bad a launch can go and makes a good case study for what not to do for any company worth its salt.
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#93 Jul 26 2012 at 11:59 PM Rating: Decent
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reptiletim wrote:
I think FFFXIV had the added challenge of every developer and production studio making an MMO to be released after it having something to look at and say, "see that sh*t? Don't be like that" while pointing a stern finger at a copy of FFXIV.

They really set the bar for how bad a launch can go and makes a good case study for what not to do for any company worth its salt.


Thing is, there were other failed MMOs prior to XIV. Instead of saying "See that ****? Don't be like that" they probably said "They should have looked at other failed MMOs and known better". The bar was already set, SE just decided to faceplant it Smiley: frown
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#94 Jul 27 2012 at 1:21 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
MrTalos wrote:
First you and magicmissile go at it and I guess he had to go on break and then woofy takes the next shift.


Missile spent a lot of time making long winded posts about how negative I am, not realizing how negative he was being about me. Hypocritical and funny how much it was, but there was only so much I could take before I had to ignore him.

Woof on the other hand just doesn't know any better. I thought it was common knowledge when SE started charging a subscription fee, but apparently that's 'big words' to Woof. Why do they call it common sense? It really isn't all that common...

Edited, Jul 25th 2012 11:16pm by FilthMcNasty


Filthy McNasty doesn't realize that other people can read and see exactly what I meant with "big words". But then again, he also wants to compare people with more than 1500 posts packed with whining, complaints, negative thoughts, gloomy predictions and fighting words - stuff already covered by other people - with people who have yet to reach the post count of 70.

On the old FFXI forum he would have been picked apart and rated down for beating a dead horse to the point where his posts would not show up anymore, but in here he still has a few fans.

Good for him. I am just not one of them.

Edited, Jul 27th 2012 4:06am by Woofdram
#95 Jul 27 2012 at 4:52 AM Rating: Decent
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4,146 posts
Woofdram wrote:
Filthy McNasty doesn't realize that other people can read and see exactly what I meant with "big words".


'Common knowledge' is pretty much the opposite of big words Woof. It's sh*t everyone should know.

Woofdram wrote:
On the old FFXI forum he would have been picked apart and rated down for beating a dead horse to the point where his posts would not show up anymore, but in here he still has a few fans.

If you put a gun to my head and forced a complaint from me, the only thing I could point to would be not leaving themselves room to let XI breathe. SE added abilities that allowed certain job combinations too much power. Instead of scaling that power back to be on par with other jobs(or even buffing other jobs) that were supposed to be competitive, they just buffed the sh*t out of mobs. This led to everyone using limited job combinations instead of being allowed the utility that made the subjob mechanic interesting in the first place. As a result, there is poor synergy between job mechanics and encounter design.

If I went to the XI forums here or even the official forums and copy pasta'd the above statement, most people would probably agree.

Filth: "Hey guys, how do I win at XI?"

Most common answer: "Perfect Defense > Embrava > Roll face on input > collect loot"



Edited, Jul 27th 2012 4:54pm by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#96 Jul 27 2012 at 11:23 AM Rating: Default
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2,214 posts
I have to say, after watching the trailer (and now I want to know when we get thrown out of time... I am assuming that's the next part of the live event?) I am actually getting really excited to see the new release. The addition of the Ice and mountains in Mohr Dhona (not sure how that works, but I don't argue with Behemoths), and the near-complete obliteration of Ul'dah (this whole time I thought it was Gridania that was gonna get pwned) is definitely changing the look of the game.

With the Class and Job changes, combined with materia, new crafts (the new craft engine also looks like it has potential).

I gotta say, looking at what 14 was (and I was excited before I played the beta of that), and now, it is definitely a different game, and has the components it desperately needed.

Now, they just need to make sure that they get enough of the stuff in at launch, and don't leave us waiting too long for the items that can't make it in yet (the group crafting, player housing, new classes and jobs, raising the level cap, multi-person skillchains, and such).
#97Woofdram, Posted: Jul 27 2012 at 4:47 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Again, people can read.
#98 Jul 27 2012 at 8:37 PM Rating: Good
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4,146 posts
*DISCLAIMER*
There will be links in this post. They contain all of the information you need. They link to either this website, the official lodestone or BG. Click them and read them unless you want to remain oblivious.

Woofdram wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Usual wordbarf


I asked you for figures that disprove my conclusion.


The only figure needed to disprove your conclusion: January 6th, 2012

Lodestone wrote:
We are bringing an end to the extended free trial period and are introducing subscription-based billing to FINAL FANTASY XIV on January 6th, 2012.


If subscription fees chased away the population of XIV, then you wouldn't have known until after January of this year. The mere fact that the announcement is posted to the Lodestone proves that the community forums came before subscription fees. The bus is warming up... /jinglekeys

Wada's apology...

Click the link and take note of the date it was posted. Now click the link in the post. Unless you are suggesting that this poster is a mind reader and a time traveler, we'll go ahead and call that strike two.

It's clear you aren't ready for the major leagues just yet and we should be playing softball rules, but I've moved past the point of feeling sorry for you. So for the sake of rubbing it in, go ahead and look through this. Take note of the date, compare to the date of the previous link and look over the data. Plenty of spreadsheets, charts and graphs for you to peruse. The numbers decline sharply before the thread ends basically because SE removed the ability to parse the data. Doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure it out Woof. Strike three.

Woofdram wrote:
...nor can you give a sound, healthy explanation of why you keep on whining about a bad release of two years ago without coming over like a spoiled little kid. Pull both off in this thread and I'm willing to respond again.


ftfy

Ask a new player who has recently posted a 'Hi, I'm new to XIV' thread on these forums to come up with a list of things that they hope would be worked out by the time 2.0 launches. Take that list and compare it to the issues people like me have been 'whining' about for two years. Note how they are nearly identical, realize that gripes from two years ago are still the same and accept that they are still valid. This is the conclusion any rational person would come to. What's your excuse?

Edited, Jul 27th 2012 11:05pm by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#99 Jul 28 2012 at 1:12 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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88 posts
You should always come with a disclaimer, Filth.

Lots of quotes here. Can't help it, otherwise you would be running around in circles again. Three things:

1. When I write:

Woofdram wrote:
There are very few people stupid enough to defend SE or clear SE's name for their decision to release FFXIV in the state it was 2 years ago.

and

Woofdram wrote:
All you did, and still do, is pointing the same thing out countless times. But the present does not affect the past.

I think my point is clear: your critique is not unique, but old instead. Many people agree with it.

How does Filth McNasty conviently interprets this? This way:

FilthMcNasty wrote:
The launch was bad whether you assess the situation two years ago or today. You're making my point for me... thanks?


but also this way::

FilthMcNasty wrote:
The reason that my posts seem repetitive to you is that you don't seem to get it the first time around.


I use the word conveniently, because later on he seem to realize what I am saying, and he even agrees:

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I am repeating the same things people were saying two years ago? Now why would I do that? Oh, that's right


This is just exhausting. Dealing with a person who acts like he doesn’t understand you, so you have to explain yourself again and again, and eventually drop the matter because you’re tired. Typical for Filth McNasty though.

2. When stating that repeating complains for two years knowing that SE was in the progress of improving the game (which will result in 2.0 later), Filth claims that
FilthMcNasty wrote:
To be fair, all the whining you are referring to is what set SE in action to fix the mess in the first place. If instead all the knights and cheerleaders had their way and no one complained, SE would continue along like there were no issues.


and

FilthMcNasty wrote:
It wasn't the drop in subs because almost all of the announcements regarding taking player input more seriously came before the sharp drop in players. Wada's apology, Tanaka's outing, the official forums and player polling were all implemented prior to subscription fees and at a time where the population of the game was still well above where it is today.


I said:

Woofdram wrote:
They had a bad game, People left. only then they stopped charging people and told them that they would try to make the game worth paying for. That's when they implemented their own forum, and that's when player polling was used. There were players that left a free game, and later there were players who refused to pay for the game SE thought of as worth charging money for. Other people stayed, some people came back (…)


But Filth corrected me with:

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Facts... get them straight. FFXIV was free for well over a year and never charged a monthly subscription fee prior to January of this year.


True, My reply was:

Woofdram wrote:
Here you are indeed correct. People didn't want to get billed, so they left. True. But it is a very unimportant detail, a technicality (lol@false statement... like we're at a murder trial here). Actually paying versus about to pay. It lead to the same result: players disappeared.


(I put it in bold letters since you didn't seem to remember it and kept on hammering about this issue)

The main question remains:

Woofdram wrote:
(…) ask yourself what the main factors were that made SE take measures: the bad reviews in magazines, bad sales and the drop in subscriptions, or the complaints on forums like this one.


And I forgot to mention the actual state of the game that made people leave as well of course. At some point there was simply nothing to do than to level up another job using the same terrible battle and leve system.

But when asking for proof I got:

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I cannot provide you with exact population because the data simply didn't exist beyond a certain point.
(…)
As for the timeline, if you want exact dates you'll have to track them down yourself. This old dog doesn't play fetch.


Filth seems to “just know”, but cannot prove it. Of course what he “just knows” proves why repeating complaints actually work.

3. The little charging-for-subscription timeline error prompted Filth McNasty to write:

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Since when did correcting your false statements become a game?


and

[quote=FilthMcNasty] Your conclusion is disproved by anyone with common knowledge of XIV [/quote]

I replied with:

[quote=Woofdram] First false statements, and now the term common knowledge? Well, well, you really think big words like these will make others think that you are right and the other is wrong, don't you? [/quote]

But that’s not how Filth remembers, No:

[quote=Woofdram] I thought it was common knowledge when SE started charging a subscription fee, but apparently that's 'big words' to Woof. [/quote]

It’s all about the use of words yes. It's a debating technique taht can fool people. You do not fool me: you haven’t even been able to prove your point.
#100 Jul 28 2012 at 1:18 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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88 posts
So one more time Filth: what made SE decide to change FFXIV:

- bad sales
- bad reviews
- departure of players because of upcoming supscription payments
- people becoming bored
- departure of players because of actual charging

or, what you said:

- The complaints on the internet

What contributed more, you think?
#101 Jul 28 2012 at 1:38 AM Rating: Decent
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4,146 posts
Woofdram wrote:
I think my point is clear: your critique is not unique, but old instead. Many people agree with it.

All I have for you Woof is 'big words'. Is your google ready? Double entendre. I give you props for stating something you probably meant one way, but can easily be turned around on you.

Woofdram wrote:
This is just exhausting.

Rubbing two braincells together taking a toll on you Woof?

Woofdram wrote:
When stating that repeating complains for two years knowing that SE was in the progress of improving the game (which will result in 2.0 later), Filth claims that

Whether or not SE is improving the game is irrelevant because the changes have not yet been implemented. I gather that this is a speculation thread, but you can't expect to make an argument against the state of the game from past to present based on speculation of the future. Unless you have a flux capacitor you haven't told me about Smiley: laugh

Woofdram wrote:
True, My reply was:
Woofdram wrote:
Here you are indeed correct. People didn't want to get billed, so they left. True.

I bolded the correct part for you. If service is free, why would people proactively leave? They were not being billed anything, nor was there any information suggesting that they would be billed any time soon. Do you get it now? People leaving had nothing to do with (non-existent)billing and everything to do with not enjoying the game.

Woofdram wrote:
Filth seems to “just know”, but cannot prove it.

I also seem to provide the proof you need, yet you can't be bothered to read it. You didn't click the links above or you would have seen the population numbers you asked for as well as people discussing the removal of the ability to parse server pops, the reason why I said...
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I cannot provide you with exact population because the data simply didn't exist beyond a certain point.


No debating techniques. I provided links to solid proof from either the Lodestone or people who took the time to gather the information while it was available. It's all there man. Everything you asked for, but you don't want to see it. I can't force you to click the links. If you really want to prove yourself wrong, all you gotta do is read, comprehend and be able to understand simple math(or use a calculator).
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
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