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Do we have any reason to believe that 2.0 will succeed?Follow

#102 Jul 28 2012 at 1:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Woofdram wrote:
So one more time Filth: what made SE decide to change FFXIV?

I did. I kicked in the door at SE, choke-slammed Tanaka and held Wada at gunblade-point while he penned the apology.

You're welcome.

Seriously? In no particular order: Money, lack of money and the rather large skidmark on the FF franchise's reputation. Did I mention money?

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Rinsui wrote:
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#103 Jul 28 2012 at 2:11 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Woofdram wrote:
So one more time Filth: what made SE decide to change FFXIV?

I did. I kicked in the door at SE, choke-slammed Tanaka and held Wada at gunblade-point while he penned the apology.

You're welcome.

Seriously? In no particular order: Money, lack of money and the rather large skidmark on the FF franchise's reputation. Did I mention money?



No, NOW you mentioned money. What you said was:

FilthMcNasty wrote:
To be fair, all the whining you are referring to is what set SE in action to fix the mess in the first place


See the difference?
#104 Jul 28 2012 at 3:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Woofdram wrote:
No, NOW you mentioned money. What you said was:

FilthMcNasty wrote:
To be fair, all the whining you are referring to is what set SE in action to fix the mess in the first place


See the difference?


SE is a business and has a bottom line. If people are not happy, they will not play the game. If people aren't playing the game when it's free, why would you expect them to pay for it? See how it all comes together?


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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#105 Jul 28 2012 at 6:07 AM Rating: Decent
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I won't discuss every point, but here are two great examples of how you operate:

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Woofdram wrote:
True, My reply was:
Woofdram wrote:
Here you are indeed correct. People didn't want to get billed, so they left. True.


I bolded the correct part for you. If service is free, why would people proactively leave? They were not being billed anything, nor was there any information suggesting that they would be billed any time soon. Do you get it now? People leaving had nothing to do with (non-existent)billing and everything to do with not enjoying the game.


We were talking about what made SE decide to fix the game. You said:

FilthMcNasty wrote:
To be fair, all the whining you are referring to is what set SE in action to fix the mess in the first place. If instead all the knights and cheerleaders had their way and no one complained, SE would continue along like there were no issues.


I said:

Woofdram wrote:
They had a bad game, People left. only then they stopped charging people and told them that they would try to make the game worth paying for.


Now I should have said that people left because they did not want to be charged. That the game was so bad that not charging players did not prevent them from leaving anyway has nothing to do with the issue we were discussing: was whining the main contributor to SE’s decision to change the game. We were NOT discussing when people were charge dor not. It is not even relevant.

Nice decoy move, but no.

And just right now you come up with money. Money is not whining on the forum. People leaving the game, people not buying the game IS money. Complaints on the forum will indeed hurt a reputation. However, do two years of whining about a bad release still chip in, with 2.0 knocking at the door?

I don’t think so.

And then, when I point out the difference between your first (whining) and second (money) main reason, you want to conclude with:

FilthMcNasty wrote:
SE is a business and has a bottom line. If people are not happy, they will not play the game. If people aren't playing the game when it's free, why would you expect them to pay for it? See how it all comes together?


Are you asking me? Some nerve!! Instead of that you could have said: "Woof, of course I was bs’ing when I wrote that whining made SE decide to take action. I was only justifying my hundreds of posts in where I complain knowing that SE is already bleeding for their mistake and is trying to solve things as good as they can."

Anyway, now that we have established (or at least we agreed) that it’s indeed money (and reputation as well, but mostly money) and not repetative whining on ZAM that made SE take action, I can go back to the reason why you are still on ZAM complaining about a game you do not even play anymore.

“Genuine interest, I still hope FFXIV becomes succesful” you say.

And I doubt that. People who show genuine interest in their ex-gf do not go tell people what a ***** she is, what a idiot her new bf is and how far her *** has become. That’s hatred. And you are expressing the exact same thing.

I think we made a lot of progress today Filth. But I am done now. I have a life, you know,. And oh, I also play FFXIV at times.
#106 Jul 28 2012 at 8:54 AM Rating: Default
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Woofdram wrote:
I said:

Woofdram wrote:
They had a bad game

If that's all you had said, you would have been correct.
Woofdram wrote:
Now I should have said that people left because they did not want to be charged.

Nope, you should have left it at that. People weren't thinking about being charged because SE said they were suspending the fee indefinitely. Because you're too stupid to click links and read posts that I've linked 3 times now...
Wada's Apology wrote:
We realize time is of the essence and are fully determined to provide our customers with quality service. It is because of this that we ask our customers to be patient until we are able to confidently present them with a concrete plan outlining FINAL FANTASY XIV's new direction. The free trial period will be extended until that time.

Translation: We're not going to ask you to pay until the game doesn't suck anymore.
Interpretation: People were not worried about the fee because they expected to be charged only when the game became something worthy of a subscription fee.

So you get nothing. You lose. Good day sir.

Edited, Jul 28th 2012 10:54am by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#107 Jul 28 2012 at 11:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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STOP IT!

Seriously just stop already. Do you really think you have any chance to change the other's opinion, or are you two arguing just for arguments sake?

No one is being declared right or the winner here, so just take a step back and realize that it's not important enough to fill up as many pages as you guys have with this fight.

Edited, Jul 28th 2012 1:05pm by Cthugga
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#108 Jul 28 2012 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have reason to believe that 2.0 will succeed. If you actually follow Yoshida and his updates you see that the he has shown dedication and provided a good direction for the game to move towards in.

However, my personal decision on if the game is playable or not will not come until the game is released, or more likely ~one month after.
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#109 Jul 28 2012 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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I just have one thing to ask.

Filth.

How much for the working gunblade?

Edited, Jul 28th 2012 3:01pm by Hyrist
#110 Jul 28 2012 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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yeah, I think BETA will tell everything.
#111 Jul 29 2012 at 12:15 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:


So you get nothing. You lose. Good day sir.


I lose??? Smiley: lol Smiley: lol

For you it is indeed all about winning and losing, isn't it? Gotcha!

You do not seem to understand that even before SE would charge players they were leaving already, not knowing SE was planning not to bill them yet. They played Beta, saw no improvements and had enough already, I remember vividly seeing LS members say goodbye. I also remember people leaving after that announcement saying that they were bored and had decided to leave because before SE would bill them all of a sudden. You know... when you stop playing a game you do not keep track of things all the time anymore and beofre you know it you get a bill for a character that is just standing there, somewhere? They wanted to avoid Ithat,

I actually expected you to understand all this, but you sure make me work for my loss.

For the issue discussed itself, whether the forum made SE take action or not, this whole thing is not even relevant. Yet it is funny to see how you try to pull off another decoy move trying to make people believe that billing-thing is actually the heart of the matter. It was not. Both you and I shot your explanation of being in here whining and complaining for the past one and a half year to smithereens. Smiley: lol

If that makes you feel like a winner... be my guest.

Edited, Jul 29th 2012 2:36am by Woofdram
#112preludes, Posted: Jul 29 2012 at 3:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) was watching my sister play yesterday and some on her linkshell were saying how the big name sites reviewing v2 and it getting high scores would bring back lots of people.
#113 Jul 29 2012 at 3:31 AM Rating: Default
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Woofdram wrote:
You do not seem to understand that even before SE would charge players they were leaving already...

Hop in your time machine and set the flux capacitor for page two of this very thread.
Exhibit A
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Facts... get them straight. FFXIV was free for well over a year and never charged a monthly subscription fee prior to January of this year. They hemorrhaged all those players while the game was B2P.

Exhibit B
FilthMcNasty wrote:
The reason I am pointing this out is because you seem to think that a drop in subscriptions was the cause for SE taking action. There were never any subscriptions before they decided to rebuild XIV in 2.0 Woofdram. The population was declining while the game was completely free to play (outside of the cost of the disc)... capeesh?

Exhibit C
FilthMcNasty wrote:
It wasn't possible for XIV to lose subscribers until they actually started charging a subscription fee, which would be earlier this year... way, way past the time everything we were discussing happened. What happened was people decided that even though there was no subscription fee, XIV wasn't worth their time.


3 accounts of me stating what you claim I 'do not seem to understand' and all from page 2 of this very thread.

On the bright side, I pounded the idea so much that it finally sunk in to the pile of meat atop your neck that you call a head. Apparently the 'repetitive nonsense' you ******* about earlier worked because not only do you now understand what I was trying to say, you actually think it was your point all along.

It's been a fun ride Woof, but all things must come to an end. You've proven you're not worth the time anyway. Who says second place is first loser? I'm awarding you with the prestigious second slot on my ignore list. Thanks for playing.

Edited, Jul 29th 2012 5:32am by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#114 Jul 29 2012 at 5:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh Filth, so you did understand me, but you just acted like you didn't because of a technicality and actually blew this small, irrelevant error out of proportions to use it as the big proof of my cluelessness!

Wow! That's not really fair, is it? Sure didn't see that coming! But also...the more you write, the more you seem to shoot yourself in the foot. Smiley: lol

Nice BTTF reference btw. Wanna talk movies and tv? You remind me of Seinfeld's Bubble Boy.

Smiley: grin
#115 Jul 29 2012 at 5:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's like they think the big name sites aren't going to crucify the game no matter what, they don't understand that IGN/Gamespot etc are paid off by advertising from NCsoft and Blizzard.

Yeah, because, like, when my soccer team loses 0:7, it`s because the ref was paid off. >.</
#116 Jul 29 2012 at 5:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
It's like they think the big name sites aren't going to crucify the game no matter what, they don't understand that IGN/Gamespot etc are paid off by advertising from NCsoft and Blizzard.

Yeah, because, like, when my soccer team loses 0:7, it`s because the ref was paid off. >.</


I do believe that those magazines would be less harsh when reviewing garbage released by their own advertisers, but deliberately destroying a game because of advertisers? Highly unlikely. They have a reputation to hold up as well. Such behavior would be discovered very fast.
#117 Jul 29 2012 at 5:57 AM Rating: Good
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After watching that terrible CGI trailer my hopes for V2 just took a major nose dive.
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#118 Jul 29 2012 at 11:16 AM Rating: Excellent

Ignore the trailer, and focus on how awesome the unique v.1 storyline content has been!

If the new game picks up where this game leaves off, then it will be pretty effing sweet.

Edited, Jul 29th 2012 10:17am by Thayos
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#119 Jul 29 2012 at 11:13 PM Rating: Default
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preludes wrote:
was watching my sister play yesterday and some on her linkshell were saying how the big name sites reviewing v2 and it getting high scores would bring back lots of people.

It's like they think the big name sites aren't going to crucify the game no matter what, they don't understand that IGN/Gamespot etc are paid off by advertising from NCsoft and Blizzard.


Yeah man i feel you, every single site out there got paid big time by blizzard and NCsoft, no wonder 90% of the population left the game less than a month into release...........
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#120 Jul 30 2012 at 1:19 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:

Ignore the trailer, and focus on how awesome the unique v.1 storyline content has been!

If the new game picks up where this game leaves off, then it will be pretty effing sweet.

Edited, Jul 29th 2012 10:17am by Thayos


I almost hope we get a little bit more. A little something something extra for the people who beat it on hard mode next patch.
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#121 Jul 30 2012 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:

Ignore the trailer, and focus on how awesome the unique v.1 storyline content has been!

If the new game picks up where this game leaves off, then it will be pretty effing sweet.

Edited, Jul 29th 2012 10:17am by Thayos


Speaking of, I just did the latest quest, "To Kill a Raven" and while it was HARD, it was also an amazingly complex and interesting fight.

If this is the direction, I'll take it. Very reminiscent of the FFXI intro CS but playable. You have this hard boss to fight, while fighting in this really tall tri-level structure, meteorites raining down overhead that the BLMs must kill before landing. In all, great team work and all jobs needed and extremely tense.

The current storyline and content is great.
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#122 Jul 30 2012 at 9:50 AM Rating: Default
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MrMissile wrote:


I do believe that those magazines would be less harsh when reviewing garbage released by their own advertisers, but deliberately destroying a game because of advertisers? Highly unlikely. They have a reputation to hold up as well. Such behavior would be discovered very fast.


So, let's say they do it anyway and give 2.0 another 4/10 score with their big Mists of Pandera banners all across the top of the article and along the sides. Let's say they just come out and say "yea we compared it to WoW and we didn't like it" right in the same article. What then? People will still visit the site in droves and they will still get their review score plastered all over the next big budget game's box art. These are the same people that called anyone unhappy with Mass Effect 3's ending "entitled" and agreed with EA's assertion that the disgruntled gamers were just homophobic.

I honestly don't think IGN, Kotaku, Gamespot, or any other big name will give it good reviews even if it was really great. I don't trust then anymore and I do feel they're paid off for positive press, but some people will always read what they write as gospel.
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#123 Jul 30 2012 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
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reptiletim wrote:
MrMissile wrote:


I do believe that those magazines would be less harsh when reviewing garbage released by their own advertisers, but deliberately destroying a game because of advertisers? Highly unlikely. They have a reputation to hold up as well. Such behavior would be discovered very fast.


So, let's say they do it anyway and give 2.0 another 4/10 score with their big Mists of Pandera banners all across the top of the article and along the sides. Let's say they just come out and say "yea we compared it to WoW and we didn't like it" right in the same article. What then? People will still visit the site in droves and they will still get their review score plastered all over the next big budget game's box art. These are the same people that called anyone unhappy with Mass Effect 3's ending "entitled" and agreed with EA's assertion that the disgruntled gamers were just homophobic.

I honestly don't think IGN, Kotaku, Gamespot, or any other big name will give it good reviews even if it was really great. I don't trust then anymore and I do feel they're paid off for positive press, but some people will always read what they write as gospel.


Does that mean you think the initial XIV reviews were unfair/unwarranted/overly harsh in your opinion?
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#124 Jul 30 2012 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:


Does that mean you think the initial XIV reviews were unfair/unwarranted/overly harsh in your opinion?


Oh absolutely not. What I mean is that if SE had dumped a pile of money on the editor's desk like EA and Blizzard do then the reviews might not have been as harsh. They certainly wouldn't have been objective. You can't be when your sponsors make the product you're supposed to review, and it's easy to just give them good marks when the scoring system is completely arbitrary anyway. If you disagree they can just pass you off as a disgruntled gamer anyway and people will get in line to defend them. FFXIV is a game people love to hate, just look at posters in this very thread. Unless you see big FFXIV banners all over the site then expect 2.0 to get bashed. It's what people expect and they have no incentive to go soft on it.
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#125 Jul 30 2012 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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reptiletim wrote:
MrMissile wrote:


I do believe that those magazines would be less harsh when reviewing garbage released by their own advertisers, but deliberately destroying a game because of advertisers? Highly unlikely. They have a reputation to hold up as well. Such behavior would be discovered very fast.


So, let's say they do it anyway and give 2.0 another 4/10 score with their big Mists of Pandera banners all across the top of the article and along the sides. Let's say they just come out and say "yea we compared it to WoW and we didn't like it" right in the same article. What then? People will still visit the site in droves and they will still get their review score plastered all over the next big budget game's box art. These are the same people that called anyone unhappy with Mass Effect 3's ending "entitled" and agreed with EA's assertion that the disgruntled gamers were just homophobic.

I honestly don't think IGN, Kotaku, Gamespot, or any other big name will give it good reviews even if it was really great. I don't trust then anymore and I do feel they're paid off for positive press, but some people will always read what they write as gospel.


I bet you believe that the Illuminati and Stone Masons are behind the pay-offs as well.

How can you believe they are paid off? The advertising department is a completely different department than editorial. Would that mean they would give terrible games great reviews? Great games terrible reviews? If you say "No that would make it too obvious," then you're suggesting that EA pays off reviewers for MEAGER 1-2 point bumps in their scores for games? That seems equally as silly. Devs are paid BEFORE sales numbers are released, and many companies offer bonuses for metacritic ratings. There are also user scores. Kinda hard to pay off everyone. They try to, for sure, but you have never heard of 1, not even ONE whistle-blower? The industry is HUGE, yet no one has come forth to say "Yeah I accepted bribes for IGN reviews."

If this is your belief, name some examples of games that, in your opinion, were incorrectly reviewed.

I guarantee that every game review you name will have someone disagreeing with the review, on way or another. That's the great thing about opinions. Everyone has one that isn't yours.

Edited, Jul 30th 2012 1:07pm by Louiscool

Edited, Jul 30th 2012 1:10pm by Louiscool
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#126 Jul 30 2012 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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reptiletim wrote:
MrMissile wrote:


I do believe that those magazines would be less harsh when reviewing garbage released by their own advertisers, but deliberately destroying a game because of advertisers? Highly unlikely. They have a reputation to hold up as well. Such behavior would be discovered very fast.


So, let's say they do it anyway and give 2.0 another 4/10 score with their big Mists of Pandera banners all across the top of the article and along the sides. Let's say they just come out and say "yea we compared it to WoW and we didn't like it" right in the same article. What then? People will still visit the site in droves and they will still get their review score plastered all over the next big budget game's box art. These are the same people that called anyone unhappy with Mass Effect 3's ending "entitled" and agreed with EA's assertion that the disgruntled gamers were just homophobic.

I honestly don't think IGN, Kotaku, Gamespot, or any other big name will give it good reviews even if it was really great. I don't trust then anymore and I do feel they're paid off for positive press, but some people will always read what they write as gospel.


If 2.0 turns out to be a pretty good game and they blast it away anyway then they have to come up with some pretty good argument otherwise they would look silly compared to the magazines and websites that are very positive. I think they rather spend some of their credibility trying to make their advertisers look good than to slam their competitors.

But maybe you're right. People, companies and governments never cease to amaze me. I just think it's very unlikely.
#127 Jul 30 2012 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
reptiletim wrote:
MrMissile wrote:


I do believe that those magazines would be less harsh when reviewing garbage released by their own advertisers, but deliberately destroying a game because of advertisers? Highly unlikely. They have a reputation to hold up as well. Such behavior would be discovered very fast.


So, let's say they do it anyway and give 2.0 another 4/10 score with their big Mists of Pandera banners all across the top of the article and along the sides. Let's say they just come out and say "yea we compared it to WoW and we didn't like it" right in the same article. What then? People will still visit the site in droves and they will still get their review score plastered all over the next big budget game's box art. These are the same people that called anyone unhappy with Mass Effect 3's ending "entitled" and agreed with EA's assertion that the disgruntled gamers were just homophobic.

I honestly don't think IGN, Kotaku, Gamespot, or any other big name will give it good reviews even if it was really great. I don't trust then anymore and I do feel they're paid off for positive press, but some people will always read what they write as gospel.


I bet you believe that the Illuminati and Stone Masons are behind the pay-offs as well.

How can you believe they are paid off? The advertising department is a completely different department than editorial. Would that mean they would give terrible games great reviews? Great games terrible reviews? If you say "No that would make it too obvious," then you're suggesting that EA pays off reviewers for MEAGER 1-2 point bumps in their scores for games? That seems equally as silly. Devs are paid BEFORE sales numbers are released, and many companies offer bonuses for metacritic ratings. There are also user scores. Kinda hard to pay off everyone. They try to, for sure, but you have never heard of 1, not even ONE whistle-blower? The industry is HUGE, yet no one has come forth to say "Yeah I accepted bribes for IGN reviews."

If this is your belief, name some examples of games that, in your opinion, were incorrectly reviewed.

I guarantee that every game review you name will have someone disagreeing with the review, on way or another. That's the great thing about opinions. Everyone has one that isn't yours.

Edited, Jul 30th 2012 1:07pm by Louiscool

Edited, Jul 30th 2012 1:10pm by Louiscool


Whistleblower as requested: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gerstmann

Also, nice insult, keeping it classy! You don't have to believe in Illuminati to see there is a conflict of interest in a company reviewing products their sponsors make. Maybe you just don't know what good journalism looks like.

If you want an example, it's my opinion that Star Wars The Old Republic did not warrant the reviews it got. Now you can disagree all you want but it was objectively a bad game with some bad design decisions and terrible support at launch. How about them high rez textures huh? But thankfully they can hide behind the word "opinion"!

The problem with that is these guys are supposed to give a professional unbiased opinion and there's no way they can without potentially upsetting their sponsors. There's a massive conflict of interest going on, that's a fact (not opinion). The sponsors literally pay the bills at IGN. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. That can't be a foreign concept to you. People look to these magazines and expect a quality review.

Now you can believe and trust who you want, that's your issue. I would rather trust a source that isn't full of conflicts. Yes, that means I don't trust a whole lot of news outlets, but in a world with stations like Fox News that's not a bad thing. Let's not make this a personal issue.
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#128 Jul 30 2012 at 12:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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on one hand I agree with you, SWtoR got reviews that were way higher than was justified, but I do think that game (which I haven't played) very likely DESERVED a higher review than XIV, because while the game was full of problems (from what I've read) it did at least launch with a fully fledged/voice acted main storyline etc.

I mean, I don't know if you weren't around at XIV launch or something but, it was devoid of any quests outside of class quests and a rather bland main storyline and exping was broken, like completely broken. It made no sense at all.

It took hours and hours to find even basic class equipment, if you could find it at all. They had all sorts of broken in the game, like a level 15 or whatever saw requiring a level 30 woodworker or w/e to make the handle, meaning someone had to grind to 30 with a level 5 saw in order to make the handles for the level 15 saws.. ugh. And it DID make a difference to whether or not you failed crafts, big time, not to mention that it took forever to get those levels.

There are some things I actually liked better about the original - like all the spells that have been removed from spellcasting classes... I won't forgive that, to me it has ruined them, and the way PUG played before was way better. I actually think combat has gotten worse with patching - they should have left it alone after adding auto-attack... but a lot of the other changes were desperately needed.
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#129 Jul 30 2012 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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reptiletim wrote:


Whistleblower as requested: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gerstmann

Also, nice insult, keeping it classy! You don't have to believe in Illuminati to see there is a conflict of interest in a company reviewing products their sponsors make. Maybe you just don't know what good journalism looks like.


As a journalist, I'm well aware what good journalism looks like.

I write an arts and entertainment column for a newspaper. I regularly review local venues, plays, music, pub crawls, and other community events. I've never been bribed by our advertisers, who are regularly the companies holding these events, and there has never been an issue.

Also, nobody reads Gamespot because they are well known for having terribly biased reviews.

Quote:

If you want an example, it's my opinion that Star Wars The Old Republic did not warrant the reviews it got. Now you can disagree all you want but it was objectively a bad game with some bad design decisions and terrible support at launch. How about them high rez textures huh? But thankfully they can hide behind the word "opinion"!


No game exists in a vacuum. Hiding behind the word opinion? It sounds like you want the ESRB description of a game, not a review.

ESRB wrote:

In this massively multiplayer online (MMO) role-playing game, based on the Star Wars universe, players engage in a fictional conflict between the Galactic Republic and the Sith Empire. Players can choose from classic Star Wars roles (e.g., Jedi Knight, Bounty Hunter, Trooper) and complete quests to determine their path down the light or dark side of the Force. Players use light sabers, laser blasters, and telekinetic powers to battle a variety of human-like enemies and fantastical creatures (e.g., aliens, cyborgs); battles frequently depict characters getting shot with lasers, slashed with light sabers, or shocked with lightning bolts. During the course of the game, players are presented with interactive cutscenes in which their choices play a vital role in the outcome of their story (e.g., using electrical attacks on restrained characters to collect information; killing someone instead of letting him go). Some sequences depict brief instances of blood and gore: to complete one quest, players must dip a skull in a pool of blood; in another mission, players deliver a severed head to a specific location and place it on a pike. Players can freely explore many areas in the game, including clubs that depict scantily clad female dancers with exposed cleavage; some sequences include dialogue with sexual innuendo (e.g., “An hour. I think I'm insulted. We'll need the whole night,” “I'll be sure to make conjugal visits,” and “Come, dear, let's forgo the nuptials and proceed to the honeymoon.”). The words *******” and “****” can be heard in dialogue throughout the game.


I, on the other hand, enjoyed Star Wars and agreed with the reviews I read. Thus, if I read your review I would think you were paid by Blizzard ot give it a poor score.

Quote:

The problem with that is these guys are supposed to give a professional unbiased opinion and there's no way they can without potentially upsetting their sponsors. There's a massive conflict of interest going on, that's a fact (not opinion). The sponsors literally pay the bills at IGN. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. That can't be a foreign concept to you. People look to these magazines and expect a quality review.


And yet these magazines still exist, still produce low scoring reviews for bad games, and STILL receive review copies. It's a pretty simple concept here. If you write fake fluff reviews, you lose readers, then lose advertising dollars. Low reviews get more clicks than high reviews. This is fact. Poor reviews have been proven to actually INCREASE sales on a game due to notoriety.

Just look at Amy on the PSN.
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#130 Jul 30 2012 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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Considering subscriptions are already picking up, the game play has gotten a healthy dose of improvement, and yeah, the latest fight is incredible all I know is that I am enjoying it now, I will be fine with taking the break when the servers go down, and will be taking time off from work when the new servers come back up for the release.
#131 Jul 30 2012 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Just because you don't get pressure from multi million dollar companies to write favorable reviews doesn't mean it can't happen. There's a lot of money at stake with a big game release, it's not a stretch to think there would be some influence.

What I look for is an objective look at a game using defined metrics. Now someone can disagree with the metrics but it leads to a solid score with meaning. A random 8/10 has no meaning in the end. It's completely arbitrary. Now you can like an objectively bad game, that's you're opinion and you're entitled to it, but that doesn't mean the game isn't bad. IGN's overall score doesn't even have to take into account each category. They can literally bash the game the whole article and give an overall score of 8/10. If you think that's fair then I don't know what to tell you.

These guys are the biggest game in town and they know it. People take what they say as gold because of that, regardless of fluff. That is how it goes unfortunately.
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#132 Jul 30 2012 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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I disagree with numbered scoring systems entirely.

I've hardly read an IGN review that completely bashed a game and then gave it a 10. I've disagreed with many reviews but never on the basis that the opinion wasn't supported by what they wrote.

I listen to IGN podcasts, so I feel a bit more familiar with the editorial staff than at other publications. They regularly bring up this topic and argue it far better than I do.

Anyway, this is a pointless derail and neither of us will bend so.....

Tacos?
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#133 Jul 30 2012 at 2:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yes, tacos rule
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#134 Jul 30 2012 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus wrote:
SWtoR got reviews that were way higher than was justified, but I do think that game (which I haven't played)

Just out of curiosity, why wold you think the reviews aren't justified if you hadn't played it? What would make you think something doesn't deserve a good review if you don't have any experience yourself?
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#135 Jul 30 2012 at 8:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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reptiletim wrote:
Yes, tacos rule


/end thread
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#136 Jul 30 2012 at 9:05 PM Rating: Default
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I was gonna say something, but i rather have some tacos <.<
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#137 Jul 30 2012 at 10:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Exodus wrote:
reptiletim wrote:
Yes, tacos rule


/end thread


I know this thread has been officially ended but... HOLY SH*T IT'S EXO!!!!
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#138 Jul 31 2012 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
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The only way I can see this game succeeding is by doing some kind of good will campaign to the million+ people who already purchased the game and were hugely disappointed. Those people who already bought the game should be the target audience. 3 months free game time should suffice.
#139 Jul 31 2012 at 10:27 PM Rating: Good
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Well, Filthy, just so your eyes see:

Quote:
kyara10 wrote:
Yes, they only had 2 years to basically make a new game from scratch but i'm sure they weren't working with a small team and chances are they may have even contracted out some work if they're not up to snuff in house.


Lets hope they didn't contract people to do their work for them again. That's a big part of the reason why we're in this mess to begin with. Horsebird says Hi2u!


From Yoshida himself:

Quote:
Yoshida: Currently, the in-house team consists of almost 300 members. We also have outsourced a fair amount of work to third-party companies, so all-in-all, the team is fairly large.


Link: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/50801-RPG-SITE-REALM-REBORN-INTERVIEW
#140 Jul 31 2012 at 10:35 PM Rating: Default
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kyara10 wrote:
Well, Filthy, just so your eyes see:

Quote:
kyara10 wrote:
Yes, they only had 2 years to basically make a new game from scratch but i'm sure they weren't working with a small team and chances are they may have even contracted out some work if they're not up to snuff in house.


Lets hope they didn't contract people to do their work for them again. That's a big part of the reason why we're in this mess to begin with. Horsebird says Hi2u!


From Yoshida himself:

Quote:
Yoshida: Currently, the in-house team consists of almost 300 members. We also have outsourced a fair amount of work to third-party companies, so all-in-all, the team is fairly large.


Link: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/50801-RPG-SITE-REALM-REBORN-INTERVIEW


There's nothing wrong with outsourcing, in principle. I just get the sense Tanaka just dumped all the heavy-lifting work to China and left SE to do the artwork. I hope Yoshida takes a more involved role in guidance and leadership with the outsourcing.
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#141 Jul 31 2012 at 11:43 PM Rating: Decent
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hexaemeron wrote:
kyara10 wrote:
Well, Filthy, just so your eyes see:

Quote:
kyara10 wrote:
Yes, they only had 2 years to basically make a new game from scratch but i'm sure they weren't working with a small team and chances are they may have even contracted out some work if they're not up to snuff in house.


Lets hope they didn't contract people to do their work for them again. That's a big part of the reason why we're in this mess to begin with. Horsebird says Hi2u!


From Yoshida himself:

Quote:
Yoshida: Currently, the in-house team consists of almost 300 members. We also have outsourced a fair amount of work to third-party companies, so all-in-all, the team is fairly large.


Link: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/50801-RPG-SITE-REALM-REBORN-INTERVIEW


There's nothing wrong with outsourcing, in principle. I just get the sense Tanaka just dumped all the heavy-lifting work to China and left SE to do the artwork. I hope Yoshida takes a more involved role in guidance and leadership with the outsourcing.


Pretty much.

I get that many companies contract the services of other companies in making their product. Most people outsource work for a small part of the final product though. I guess I should have been more clear, but the first time around it seemed that SE let someone else almost completely control the development of the product, received the finished game, churned out some discs and slapped a shiny FF label on it.

I think they've learned their lesson and while I will remain on the side of skepticism until launch, I do hope that they can pull it together.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#142 Aug 07 2012 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
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For the first time in a long time, SE has to work for their success. They've been the "end all be all" for RPG's on the market for close to a decade. Goes to show you though, if you deliver crap, people will notice, no matter who you are.

This is why I think 2.0 is going to be amazing. SE lost a huge portion of their fanbase after the release of FFXIV, and they know that the only way to win them back is to blow them out of the water. Will it be perfect? Doubt it, but I think it will be one of the better MMO's out there on the market.
#143 Aug 07 2012 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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^^^ They have not been "The end all be all" of RPGS for close to a decade.... Also what in your own opinion dictates that FFXIV will be one of the better MMOS out there, since right now they are behind everybody in terms of development, money, subs, and gamplay mechanics.

Just asking maybe you see things from a different perspective.
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#144 Aug 08 2012 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
^^^ They have not been "The end all be all" of RPGS for close to a decade.... Also what in your own opinion dictates that FFXIV will be one of the better MMOS out there, since right now they are behind everybody in terms of development, money, subs, and gamplay mechanics.

Just asking maybe you see things from a different perspective.


As to your first comment "They have not been 'The end all be all' of RPGS for close to a decade...", I'd like to point you to a couple of sources that prove you wrong:
1. http://www.listal.com/list/greatest-rpgs-all-time
The top three games? Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 7, and Final Fantasy 4; All Square Enix/Square Soft titles.

2. http://www.gamespot.com/features/the-greatest-games-of-all-time-final-fantasy-ii-6132899/
Gamespot listed FF2, as well as several other Square Enix/final fantasy titles on their "Greatest Games of All Time" list

3. http://www.joystickdivision.com/2010/08/the_top_ten_rpgs_of_all_time.php
Number one? Chrono Trigger. Number three? FF7

4. http://www.epinions.com/content_3345850500?sb=1
Number one and two, FF7 and FF4, respectively

You see what I did there?

As for your other comments;
I see things from a perspective of "forward thinking". A pessimistic mindset, be it from developers or fans, does not help a franchise. It takes critical feedback to perfect a game, but the last thing SE needs to succeed is more people to bash their mistakes.

From what I've seen in interviews, they are heavily staffed (at 300 plus, with a little bit of outsourcing), that is hardly "behind everybody" in anybody's book. While they've taken a hit from the terrible release of FFXIV initially, this company as a whole is thriving from their other titles and is in NO WAY lacking in money, a fan-base for future subs, or gameplay mechanics (they have many years of experience/experimenting directly with different types of battle mechanics).
#145 Aug 08 2012 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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Tychondrias wrote:
As to your first comment "They have not been 'The end all be all' of RPGS for close to a decade...", I'd like to point you to a couple of sources that prove you wrong:

[...]

You see what I did there?
You forgot how many years exist in a decade?
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#146 Aug 08 2012 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Tychondrias wrote:
As to your first comment "They have not been 'The end all be all' of RPGS for close to a decade...", I'd like to point you to a couple of sources that prove you wrong:
1. http://www.listal.com/list/greatest-rpgs-all-time
The top three games? Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 7, and Final Fantasy 4; All Square Enix/Square Soft titles.

You see what I did there?

I see that you can't count to ten...

None of these games were released within the past decade.

____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#147 Aug 08 2012 at 1:28 PM Rating: Default
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No they weren't, but the comment was on whether or not Square Enix was a leading competitor in the RPG market over the last ten years. All of those lists (that were creating within the last decade), include their games.

As for their more recent titles:

In 2003, FFXI was awarded the #2 RPG of the year:
http://www.rpgamer.com/awards/2003/results/staff/rpgoty.html

For a list of the top RPG's in the last decade, two SE titles were featured here:
http://www.gamingunion.net/news/top-ten-rpgs-of-this-generation-so-far--2586.html

Four SE RPG's are listed here for 2006, including Kingdom Hearts (joint disney, SE effort):
http://voices.yahoo.com/top-ten-rpgs-2006-139737.html?cat=19

Re-release of FF4 in 2008 made it to the #1 spot:
http://blog.brothersoft.com/2008/11/25/rpg-games-2008-top-five/

FFXIII listed as a "must have" in 2010:
http://www.planetxbox360.com/article_8596/Top_7_Must-Have_RPGs_Coming_in_2010

Granted after this, SE hit a rough patch with the release of FFXIV for the PC, but the argument holds. SE has held a title in the lists of "top RPG's" for the past decade and beyond.
#148 Aug 08 2012 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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Tychondrias wrote:
No they weren't, but the comment was on whether or not Square Enix was a leading competitor in the RPG market over the last ten years. All of those lists (that were creating within the last decade), include their games.
That logic is like saying Orion Pictures is still a leading production company because they released Platoon, Dances with Wolves, and The Silence of the Lambs. It's true if you ignore they went defunct in 1998.
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#149 Aug 08 2012 at 1:45 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
Tychondrias wrote:
No they weren't, but the comment was on whether or not Square Enix was a leading competitor in the RPG market over the last ten years. All of those lists (that were creating within the last decade), include their games.
That logic is like saying Orion Pictures is still a leading production company because they released Platoon, Dances with Wolves, and The Silence of the Lambs. It's true if you ignore they went defunct in 1998.


Correct, but Orion Pictures is no longer around, SE is. And they are still producing great RPG's that are recognized from their reputation and experience. Perhaps I should have listed their more recent titles in that first list (as I did in my last post).
#150 Aug 08 2012 at 2:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Tychondrias wrote:
And they are still producing great RPG's that are recognized from their reputation and experience. Perhaps I should have listed their more recent titles in that first list (as I did in my last post).


Based on what? Nearly nothing(when you compare what has to the rest of the volume) is getting any sort of praise. I think that's the point that you're trying to deflect away from.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#151 Aug 08 2012 at 3:02 PM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Tychondrias wrote:
And they are still producing great RPG's that are recognized from their reputation and experience. Perhaps I should have listed their more recent titles in that first list (as I did in my last post).


Based on what? Nearly nothing(when you compare what has to the rest of the volume) is getting any sort of praise. I think that's the point that you're trying to deflect away from.


I'm not sure I understand your point. FFXIII and XIII-2 received a lot of praise:
"Final Fantasy XIII received generally positive reviews. It was rated 39 out of 40 by the Japanese gaming magazine Famitsu." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIII)

"During its first week of release in Japan, Final Fantasy XIII-2 sold 524,000 copies, and the PlayStation 3 version was the highest-selling game for the system."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIII-2)

Since 13, they've only released FFXIV on the PC, which I agree did not have a good start. However 2.0 is becoming a highly anticipated game, especially with the announcement of game-play footage being shown at GamesCom this year (http://www.siliconera.com/2012/07/30/final-fantasy-xiv-a-realm-reborn-gameplay-will-be-revealed-at-gamescom/)

I'd be interested to see some of your sources that state Final Fantasy has received no praise as of late :)
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