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Lookling for GPU and need suggestionsFollow

#1 Jul 31 2012 at 8:50 PM Rating: Decent
5 posts
I've decided to start playing FFXIV soon and am looking to get some direction on a "best bang for the buck" video card.

My current setup is as follows.

HP Desktop p6724y
Windows 7
Pentium Dual Core E5700 @ 3.0/3.0
4g Type: DDR3-1333 Ram
1TB HD
Integrated graphics using Intel GMA x4500 (****!)
250w power supply
Native resolution 1900*1080

I'm looking to spend in the $150-$180 range for a video card and could use some suggestions. Also tell me please if I need so spend a little more to make it worth the trouble.
#2 Aug 01 2012 at 12:17 AM Rating: Decent
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paulypurebred wrote:
I've decided to start playing FFXIV soon and am looking to get some direction on a "best bang for the buck" video card.

My current setup is as follows.

HP Desktop p6724y
Windows 7
Pentium Dual Core E5700 @ 3.0/3.0
4g Type: DDR3-1333 Ram
1TB HD
Integrated graphics using Intel GMA x4500 (****!)
250w power supply
Native resolution 1900*1080

I'm looking to spend in the $150-$180 range for a video card and could use some suggestions. Also tell me please if I need so spend a little more to make it worth the trouble.


Thanks for listing your current specs. Always a good help in trying to advise someone on where to go.

Short answer:
You want at least an x60(replace x with 4, 5 or 6) GPU if you want nVidia or an x770(replace x with 5, 6 or 7) if you want AMD/ATI GPU. These are the GPUs that offer the ability to get medium to medium high settings at a comfortable frame rate. Both companies' GPUs are within your price range.

Long answer:
Even though any of these GPUs will give you a noticeable upgrade in graphics, they will still be bottle-necked by your CPU. In order to get the most from your GPU, you need a CPU capable of stressing it to it's fullest. What you currently have won't do that. The GPUs I listed above that are capable of medium-high settings will probably work out to the lower end of medium because of your CPU.

Think of it as a runner on a treadmill. In this case, the treadmill is your CPU and the runner is your GPU. Essentially, you will be putting a world class runner on a slow treadmill. Obviously you will want to get a faster treadmill(CPU). The problem with that is most of the newer bangingest(yes, I just made a word) for your buck CPUs won't fit into the same socket as your current CPU. This means motherboard upgrade. Cha-ching! Depending on what kind of RAM your new motherboard supports, you might also need to upgrade that. CHA CHING! I think you can see where I'm going with this...

My best advice is the same advice I give in nearly any thread like this. Either wait until you can save up enough for a completely new PC which is the most expensive option, wait until the game is released to see how your upgrade options will perform(which could either be cheaper or more expensive) or go with a PS3 which is the cheapest option.

tl;dr
If you can't live without playing before 2.0 then a new GPU will give you an increase in performance, but 'bang for you buck' is a package deal. There's a bit of a threshold on how many bucks you have to spend before they start making loud noises Smiley: sly

Edited, Aug 1st 2012 2:19am by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#3 Aug 01 2012 at 12:59 AM Rating: Excellent
I would also get a better power supply. With a power supply unit, you're better off going big, which will make upgrading any other components (or adding new ones) easier in the future.
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#4 Aug 01 2012 at 5:13 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
I would also get a better power supply. With a power supply unit, you're better off going big, which will make upgrading any other components (or adding new ones) easier in the future.



Look at the two answers given. I did a quick search on your computer (and the board it has). It is a very basic board which has little to no "get up and go" to it. At least you have a pci-e slot.

The cheapest route at this time is a 70-100$USD PSU that is 650 watt or highter, an Nvidia 460 or 560 (or comparable ATI) (around 100-250$USD)<-- look on ebay for greatest deals.

Honestly, don't even try to upgrade this computer anyfurther, as it is a "branded" computer that was built only for a simple end-user (web browsing, simple type games, e-mail checker, etc). Your headroom in the case and the components is limited at best.

As the other poster stated, your best bet is to save up for a more modern gaming rig and expect to spend around 600-1000$USD for it. Most "pre-packaged" deals are more expensive than that of self-built.
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#5 Aug 01 2012 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
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NCIX.com has a 6870 for cheap (relatively) ~150 and it gets quite high results on XIV and runs most games out today on max settings.
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#6 Aug 01 2012 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
I had a similar cpu with a gtx 460, and it severely bogged down the video card. So the performance increase won't be as noticeable as if you had a core i7, or any other more significantly powerful cpu. That being said, the gpu can always move to a new computer, so it's not a wasted purchase.
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#7 Aug 01 2012 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Short answer:
You want at least an x60(replace x with 4, 5 or 6) GPU if you want nVidia or an x770(replace x with 5, 6 or 7) if you want AMD/ATI GPU. These are the GPUs that offer the ability to get medium to medium high settings at a comfortable frame rate. Both companies' GPUs are within your price range.


The x60 GPUs don't really compete with each other. The only way that would happen is if each generation were to show an insignificant increase from one card to the next. The basic 560 trades blows with the 470 in most reviews, and while I haven't seen anything on the basic version of the 660 yet, if the tweaktown review of the 660 TI is accurate and the regular 660 is anywhere close to it, it should be a pretty significant upgrade over both.

Edited, Aug 1st 2012 3:17pm by Susanoh
#8 Aug 01 2012 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
5 posts
Thank you for all the replies. A little disheartening but I'd rather hear not so great news than BS advice.

About the 2.0 release coming up, is it going to be a completely new game that I'll have to re-purchase if I were to start playing on the current version before hand? I had also read speculation that the graphics engine was going to be rebuilt so maybe I can squeeze a little better performance out of this processor?
#9 Aug 01 2012 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
5 posts
Also, after doing a little research. I've read this processor can be overclocked to near 4.0Ghz. Will that make a difference?
#10 Aug 01 2012 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Susanoh wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Short answer:
You want at least an x60(replace x with 4, 5 or 6) GPU if you want nVidia or an x770(replace x with 5, 6 or 7) if you want AMD/ATI GPU. These are the GPUs that offer the ability to get medium to medium high settings at a comfortable frame rate. Both companies' GPUs are within your price range.


The x60 GPUs don't really compete with each other.

I never suggested they did.

It's just a guideline since the 460 and the 5770 are the lowest you would want to go to maintain solid performance. Sure those other GPUs put up a fight in benchmarks, but I'm 100% certain that none of those benches were run on an E5700. In a game that isn't optimized anyway, he's not going to get optimal results due to the rest of his hardware. A matter of a few FPS difference in a benchmark run on a machine pushing a current gen processor is meaningless here.

paulypurebred wrote:
About the 2.0 release coming up, is it going to be a completely new game that I'll have to re-purchase if I were to start playing on the current version before hand? I had also read speculation that the graphics engine was going to be rebuilt so maybe I can squeeze a little better performance out of this processor?

2.0 version will not require you to repurchase the game if you get it now. XIV should run better on the same setups after the graphics engine change, but it's all speculation until it's actually released.

Overclocking your processor will make a difference, but you'd want to get aftermarket cooling which is 50-100 bucks. Honestly your best bet is to just save up and try to build a new rig. You can try and stick a GPU upgrade in your PC now and get decent performance until you can afford the rest of the components for your rig.



Edited, Aug 1st 2012 7:59pm by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#11 Aug 02 2012 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
5 posts
Thank you all for the advice, after taking a look around I've decided for now to go with a GTX 560 and a Corsair cx500 power supply. I will eventually save up for a new motherboard/cpu combo and just transplant the PS and GPU over. I have one more rookie question.

I see dozens of GTX560's by different manufacturers, at different price points. Eliminating the obvious differences of 1gig or 2gig, what else is the difference between them? What should I be A) looking for and B) steering clear of.
#12 Aug 02 2012 at 7:40 PM Rating: Good
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paulypurebred wrote:
Thank you all for the advice, after taking a look around I've decided for now to go with a GTX 560 and a Corsair cx500 power supply. I will eventually save up for a new motherboard/cpu combo and just transplant the PS and GPU over. I have one more rookie question.

I see dozens of GTX560's by different manufacturers, at different price points. Eliminating the obvious differences of 1gig or 2gig, what else is the difference between them? What should I be A) looking for and B) steering clear of.



Just for reference, and just my opinion, future proof your purchase of a PSU (power supply) to at least 750 watt or higher (most here agree at this level), the cost diffence should be negligible. As far as the GPU manufacturers, again my opinion, but EVGA is sort of KING of the NVIDIA line, and here is one on EBAY for around 128+SH http://www.ebay.com/itm/01G-P3-1464-KR-NEW-EVGA-nVidia-GeForce-GTX560-SE-1GB-DDR5-PCI-Express-Video-Card-/221003469750?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item3374d553b6 or NEWEGG http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130765 160$$

I did a quick search on the PSU, still around 60-150$$ with/without rebates.

.





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http://theforsakenlink.com

5040 X 1050 with Matrox Triple Head 2 Go
480 in SLI
I-7 950 OC 3.68 Ghz, 12 GB DDR3 1600
1000w PSU
#13 Aug 02 2012 at 11:36 PM Rating: Decent
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4,146 posts
paulypurebred wrote:
I see dozens of GTX560's by different manufacturers, at different price points. Eliminating the obvious differences of 1gig or 2gig, what else is the difference between them? What should I be A) looking for and B) steering clear of.


They're the same cards, the difference is the support and warranty. All companies who sell nVidia products purchase the same card directly from them, put a sticker on it and basically just resell it. In some cases there are upgraded versions that come with cooling blocks for water cooling setups or aftermarket fans, but for the most part the only thing that separates them is warranty.

As I always do in these threads, I'll suggest EVGA. Great RMA service if you get a card with something wrong with it, great forums for advice and a solid warranty.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#14 Aug 03 2012 at 12:23 AM Rating: Decent
12 posts
ok, i got a question here,

Got a I5 760@2.8Hz, 6GB RAM DDR3 1333
Nvidia GTX 460 1GB
Windows 7 32 bits

Today was told that my Windows7-32bits wont use more than 4GB ram, that I might change to windows7-64b to use my ram and video card real power, but checking in loadstone ffxiv especifications read that the game will run WoW32 mode if its installed on windows7-64 bits, so in the end its useless to change to windows7-64b till version 2.0 comes out. Is that true?

Do you guys heard/read if version 2.0 will run on 64 bits?, use directx 11? (if i remember well now its based on directx 9), when game came out i could play at high resolutions but after each upgrade it was getting slower and slower and had to switch to standard graphics (still looks cool tho) so was thinking to update my motherborad, chipset and ram but guess I will wait till version 2.0 comes out.
#15 Aug 03 2012 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent
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4,146 posts
Localus wrote:
Today was told that my Windows7-32bits wont use more than 4GB ram, that I might change to windows7-64b to use my ram and video card real power, but checking in loadstone ffxiv especifications read that the game will run WoW32 mode if its installed on windows7-64 bits, so in the end its useless to change to windows7-64b till version 2.0 comes out. Is that true?


32-bit windows uses roughly 3.1GB, but honestly... unless you're planning on running something heavy on your machine(you would know if you were going to need it), you won't really ever use more than 4GB.

The upgrades you need to get to take best advantage of performance are: CPU >= GPU > RAM

To the best of my knowledge, 2.0 will still be DX9. That isn't to say that it won't make use of DX11 features, but you'd be fine with DX9 only. I have a pair of GTX 480s and I wouldn't even bother trying to use DX11 features yet. Maybe in 2.0, but probably not.

Like I said before, if you upgrade your CPU then you'll likely have to upgrade your motherboard and RAM at the same time. I honestly think it's best you wait because by the time you're done upgrading piece by piece, you've spent more than you should have. Waiting is the pro choice here. Not only do you get to save up in the meantime, but you will have a much better idea of what you will need for good performance in the future.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#16 Aug 04 2012 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
5 posts
<sigh> This hobby is turning out to be alot more expensive and alot more research intensive than I had anticipated. After looking at what these stepped upgrades are going to cost, I've debated on buying a PS3 instead, but it's my understanding that a powerful computer will run circles around a ps3 anyday (hence the vast difference in cost). Then I've found that not all power supplies are created equal. While a power supply might be rated at the same wattage as another that costs twice as much, I essentially need to find a supply that has at least 30amps on the 12v output, will fit in my current case, and that won't cost an arm and a leg.

This has definitely been a learning process! The last time I built a computer everything was single core processors. You picked the fastest one and were done. Now there's hyperthreading and cache levels and this and that and it's all got my head spinning!

I'm still debating on which video card to get. It's down to either a Geforce 560ti 1gb or a Radeon HD 6950 1gb. They're both available in comparable price ranges and the 6950 seems to out perform the 560 on most benchmarks. Does FFXIV have a tendency to run better on either manufacturers card as opposed to the other?
#17 Aug 04 2012 at 7:29 PM Rating: Good
Cards tend to be personal preference, you'll have people defend NVIDIA, and others defend ATI. My personal experience, I've had three ATI cards die on me now and 3 Nvidia cards that have lasted until I upgraded. The only issue with this is my ati and nvidia cards were probably all made by different companies, so in short, I just had horrid luck with ATI made cards. Overall, if you've done your research on performance and such, either cards within a certain price range should give you what you want.

As for power supplies, 80-100$ should get you something with decent amps on a single rail to power a single GPU. I had bought a corsair VX550 4-5 years ago for 70$, thing is still going, powered my pc's no problem and was a single rail high amp PSU. Typically in the PC world, you get what you pay for (cept when you go with pre-assembled stuff by dell and so forth.) So as good as budget building is, sometimes spending a bit extra will last you FAR longer. I've always like corsair for PSU's, I'm sure others have recommendations of their own too. Corsair also mostly makes single rail psu's (at least they did when I last bought one). If you don't plan on using multiple GPU's and other crazy stuff, 600W should be more then enough to power what you get.
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#18 Aug 04 2012 at 9:49 PM Rating: Decent
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paulypurebred wrote:
I'm still debating on which video card to get. It's down to either a Geforce 560ti 1gb or a Radeon HD 6950 1gb. They're both available in comparable price ranges and the 6950 seems to out perform the 560 on most benchmarks. Does FFXIV have a tendency to run better on either manufacturers card as opposed to the other?


In my opinion, AMD/ATI cards tend to have more stutter than nVidia. I dunno what it is, but the frames just seem smoother on nVidia cards even when the competition runs at a higher frame rate.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#19 Aug 05 2012 at 9:29 PM Rating: Good
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I would also back corsair as a good brand of PSU. I picked up a 700w for less then 85 dollars on a deal from newegg. I know when I start researching for a new build I do not make a quick decision. Wait a little bit and check the market. Sometimes planning near a holiday or release of a new component can drastically change the monetary conclusion of your decision.

From what I understand the new engine will scale better with more of a mainstream build then 1.0 did, so that may be something to consider as well.

The gtx 660ti will be coming out around the 14th of this month and that may be a good time to pick up the 500 series GPU's cheap due to people upgrading to newer hardware.
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