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Gamescom 2012 "A Realm Reborn" Screenshots.Follow

#1 Aug 15 2012 at 3:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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http://xivwiki.com/wiki/Screenshots

Enjoy.


Update: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=486993

Update: Gameplay:



Edited, Aug 15th 2012 8:30am by UltKnightGrover

Edited, Aug 22nd 2012 10:29am by UltKnightGrover
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#2 Aug 15 2012 at 3:27 AM Rating: Good
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Are those chocobos jumping or actually flying? O.o;;;
#3 Aug 15 2012 at 3:29 AM Rating: Good
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Jumping, I believe.
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#4 Aug 15 2012 at 3:39 AM Rating: Good
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Tbh I am not the most conservative when it comes to what I would like to see come out of XIV, but flying chocobos was not really one of them so I am happy that it is jump. I don't know why exactly, but perhaps it is because I feel flying mounts always make the world feel smaller and easier to explore, the sense of adventure dissapears somewhat for me.

Anyway, good to see some pictures coming, I think they all look spectacular actually!
#5 Aug 15 2012 at 3:49 AM Rating: Good
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It looks awesome! One more day for gameplay footage, can't wait!
#6 Aug 15 2012 at 5:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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My friend at work yesterday: "You cannot jump in FFXIV".
SE today: "Look, we'll post a lot of screenshots showing people jumping".
#7 Aug 15 2012 at 6:02 AM Rating: Decent
The game looks great, only gripe is that stats and item menu...it looks...cheap, no other way for me to describe it. As long as it works and is fluid though, that's all that matters.
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#8 Aug 15 2012 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
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As long as it is less laggy than the current system its got my vote.
#9 Aug 15 2012 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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is it me or the screenshots from june look better (in definition) than these, well the game looks great and i am enjoying my actual ffxiv since i came back 3 weeks ago, so if the game just improve from now, well it has my vote. i just would like to see some casting spells screenshots. Are those 2 screenshots from weaponskill/combo effects?
#10 Aug 15 2012 at 8:22 AM Rating: Default
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Looks like Tera.
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#11 Aug 15 2012 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Looks like tera.


Oh happy day. I can say something positive about the game. It does not look like Tera.
#12 Aug 15 2012 at 9:04 AM Rating: Decent
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It doesn't really look like Tera, but it's not like it'd be bad it does look alike. If there is ONE thing good about Tera, its really the way it looks. Just like FFXIV 1.0 actually.
#13 Aug 15 2012 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Did someone want gameplay?
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#14 Aug 15 2012 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
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Looks like tera.


Oh happy day. I can say something positive about the game. It does not look like Tera.


Agreed. Not like Tera. Tera looks good...but I would say more in a EQ2/Rift kind of way.

A lot of shadows and I get a sense of dry forest/warmth when I see the screenies. Quite different than before which was a bit colder feeling.
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#15 Aug 15 2012 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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A few things about the gameplay I think were of interest:

-There is no more blinking when you change gear.
-When you use an ability, apparently you can slide around without animation; in fact, there's a lot of sliding throughout.
-Jumping... lots of random, pointless jumping: while standing there, while walking, while pulling, while fighting, while bored, while twitching. They honestly seem way too proud of such a mechanic.
-The UI seems very customizable - and easy to customize, at that.
-Chocobos blink in without an animation... and they jump around a lot.
-There seems to be a system of full party skill-chaining.

Overall: 2.0 looks like any modern MMO in a vague Final Fantasy skin, which is, I believe, what they were trying to accomplish. There's not really much else to say, either bad or good, unfortunately.
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#16 Aug 15 2012 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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As a current player, as Yoshi was able to make a game fun out a disastrous launch and poor server structures, I'm interested to see what the team can do now that they're not bound by these limitations/excuses.
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#17 Aug 15 2012 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
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I think I've seen enough, in fact, only real negative is the animations being a bit too "slidey" and the jumping. Jumping... Bunny Hop away.

Outside of that, looks neat, if a little generic and samey. Hopefully pans out well and just doesn't end up being the same as every other MMO around at the moment.

Edited, Aug 15th 2012 12:47pm by ScorpionEx
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#18 Aug 15 2012 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
A few things about the gameplay I think were of interest:

-There is no more blinking when you change gear.
-When you use an ability, apparently you can slide around without animation; in fact, there's a lot of sliding throughout.
-Jumping... lots of random, pointless jumping: while standing there, while walking, while pulling, while fighting, while bored, while twitching. They honestly seem way too proud of such a mechanic.
-The UI seems very customizable - and easy to customize, at that.
-Chocobos blink in without an animation... and they jump around a lot.
-There seems to be a system of full party skill-chaining.

Overall: 2.0 looks like any modern MMO in a vague Final Fantasy skin, which is, I believe, what they were trying to accomplish. There's not really much else to say, either bad or good, unfortunately.


Agreed, they set out to make a generic MMORPG, they succeeded. Now lets see how generic and pointless the quest-chaining system is and they have a perfect 2005 MMORPG on their hands that you've played every year since.
#19 Aug 15 2012 at 10:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Interesting. When they get experimental, people seem to want more of the same. "Why was it missing x feature from y game?"

When they go for common features and game mechanics, people blast them for lack of originality and generic.

It is true that not everyone can be pleased with the direction the game is going in, but on the other hand, I'm not quite sure what people were expecting.

I'm interested to see how their new primal/summoning system is going to work. None of that has been showcased yet. Also, some examples of how cutscenes will work. I do hope they keep the features where you can look in the journal for where to go next, and have party members appear with you in appropriate scenes. Two aspects I think XIV improved on over XI.

Edited, Aug 15th 2012 9:43am by UltKnightGrover
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#20 Aug 15 2012 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Why choose FFXIV when you can choose WoW, Rift, EQ (Insert 80 other Korean and Chinese MMORPGs) and get the exact same things? Especially when XIV ultimately failed once before? What does XIV bring to the table that's different enough to say: "I want to play this MMO over (insert other same MMOs)!"

Even FFXI was different from the MMOs at the time while being based off of EQ for it's base systems. If XIV 1.0 was built around XI and modernized it, we'd have been in business for a Unique MMO, but now it feels like they're stepping far too many steps backwards and just settling for being like everyone else.

The new DQ though, that's pretty good.
#21 Aug 15 2012 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
Why choose FFXIV when you can choose WoW, Rift, EQ (Insert 80 other Korean and Chinese MMORPGs) and get the exact same things? Especially when XIV ultimately failed once before? What does XIV bring to the table that's different enough to say: "I want to play this MMO over (insert other same MMOs)!"

Even FFXI was different from the MMOs at the time while being based off of EQ for it's base systems. If XIV 1.0 was built around XI and modernized it, we'd have been in business for a Unique MMO, but now it feels like they're stepping far too many steps backwards and just settling for being like everyone else.

The new DQ though, that's pretty good.


For the very same reason why I played Final Fantasy XI over any other MMO that came out before or afterwards.

You compare XIV to x, y, and z saying it's more of the same.

Yet, you also mention that XI was based off of EQ, yet was able to create its own identity. What's not to believe XIV won't do the same? I've yet to see a MMO since XI that has had a captivating story where you actually get attached to the characters in the quests, and in reality that's Final Fantasy's main selling point as a franchise.

IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX all had very similar gameplay systems to not only other games in the same franchise, but other single-player RPGs as well, and the selling point was the mix of familiar gameplay with a few twists with an original score and story.

Final Fantasy XIV is taking popular elements from other MMOs that it should have had in the first place, and adding the familiar Final Fantasy-feel with characters, primals, and the Uematsu score.


Edited, Aug 15th 2012 10:16am by UltKnightGrover
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#22 Aug 15 2012 at 11:07 AM Rating: Default
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That's exactly the point. As of now they're not showing any sign of trying to stand out, they're showing they're trying to fit in more than anything. Maybe it will change, but as of now there's nothing really standing out.
#23 Aug 15 2012 at 11:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't see much of anything in that gameplay video that screams "I am a WOW/EQ/RIFT clone".

If anything...I see a very unique look to a FF title that has been updated to the current needs of what 2012 MMO player wants in gameplay and UI.

Yes, I understand we still only see what they want us to see...but they are so far holding true to what they said they would do with the new version. I'm not sure what else we can ask for at this time besides that they stay on schedule.

Just take a look at the original first gameplay videos released on the first version and compare to this new gameplay video. Wow...

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#24 Aug 15 2012 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I also feel like SE doesn't want to take any risk with XIV 2.0. Sadly.

Like, we messed up once, let's make the 2.0 as standard as possible. Go speak to X npc to receive a quest, kill 10 rats, go back to said npc. Allow people to do pretty much every thing solo (God I miss the party oriented FFXI), let's avoid as much as possible any kind of grind etc. Kinda like SE doesn't have the balls it takes to make a great, DIFFERENT, game and just want to make sure to get at least X amount of people playing to get a return on investment aswell as no more terrible press.

GW2 isn't appealing to me, and there is nothing big (EQNext, ArcheAge) coming before maybe 2014, most likely 2015. I really hope SE will manage to offer us a XIV with some oldschool/XI spirit. Since I stopped playing XI in 2009 I never found any somewhat satisfiying new-gen MMO. And trust me on this, I tried hard.
#25 Aug 15 2012 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Cole80 wrote:
I also feel like SE doesn't want to take any risk with XIV 2.0. Sadly.

Like, we messed up once, let's make the 2.0 as standard as possible. Go speak to X npc to receive a quest, kill 10 rats, go back to said npc. Allow people to do pretty much every thing solo (God I miss the party oriented FFXI), let's avoid as much as possible any kind of grind etc. Kinda like SE doesn't have the balls it takes to make a great, DIFFERENT, game and just want to make sure to get at least X amount of people playing to get a return on investment aswell as no more terrible press.


While I agree with you (and other posters) that XIV 2.0 is taking a conservative approach, I have to disagree with the part you bolded. While EXPing in XIV is a solo/small-man affair, the battles that DO involve a party as of right now are pretty **** punishing, arguably far more than XI's were. In XI, other people in the party could pick up the slack for you and continue with 5. XIV's battles are so punishing that if even one person disconnects it's pretty much start over/wipe.

This is especially true with Hamlet, Garuda, the level 50 8-man raiding areas, the final AF-quest battles (except WHM), and the higher-level post level 40 Company quests.



Edited, Aug 15th 2012 10:31am by UltKnightGrover
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#26 Aug 15 2012 at 12:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Theonehio wrote:
Why choose FFXIV when you can choose WoW, Rift, EQ (Insert 80 other Korean and Chinese MMORPGs) and get the exact same things? Especially when XIV ultimately failed once before? What does XIV bring to the table that's different enough to say: "I want to play this MMO over (insert other same MMOs)!"


It's an MMO in a Final Fantasy setting. Very much so in fact considering Yoshida's attitude to make this a fanservice title (Battle Regimens are now Limit Breaks).

So in all honesty, why should SE give a flying crap about fickle MMO players when they have a demographic of their own, consisting of millions and millions of much more loyal players who are not going to switch to another MMO as soon as one releases? People that play this game because it is a Final Fantasy, not because it is an MMORPG?

Even if only ~3% of said demographic ends up playing this game in the long run, SE still has a profitable cashcow in their hands. And they are doing their hardest to cater to the demographic that matters the most, with Chocobos, Magitek, Limit Breaks, traditional Jobs and Summons.

Even WoW didn't steal it's players from other MMO's- they created a playerbase of their own out of people that hadn't played an MMO before.
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#27 Aug 15 2012 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Interesting. When they get experimental, people seem to want more of the same. "Why was it missing x feature from y game?"
[/sm][/i]


The game at launch was filled with a ton of great mechanics that was drowning in terrible decisions. The market wards for example felt like Rolanberry market on FFXI except with an incredibly sluggish UI that took much longer to load. Then they started cutting edges and make it more convinient that today it's like any other auction house out there with the absolute worst way of selling items. I don't know what their purpose was, all I know is that the Ul'dah market wards gets filled up very quickly and you can spend a lot of time trying to push one of your retainers into it.

Even if they make an auction house so awesome it will blow everyone's mind it's still just an auction house. I think some people wouldn't be happy about selling stuff the same way like in every other MMORPG out there. I would be happy just to get a system that works with much less frustration than today.
#28 Aug 15 2012 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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Exciting to finally see a first taste of game-play in motion, but I want more info. There's still a few days left of Gamescon and there are of course website updates that are likely incoming.

There is a lot to speculate here upon and although the focus has been about 'too much jumping' and some of the sliding (which I don't really mind.) What caught my interest was the TP bar. It starts at 1k and is used, rather than start at zero and is lost. This is really going to change things up for Melee.

I also noticed, no combo system being used. Are they gone? Is Limit Break the full of what we are getting? This video did answer some concerns, but it left me with far more questions.
#29 Aug 15 2012 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
Overall: 2.0 looks like any modern MMO in a vague Final Fantasy skin, which is, I believe, what they were trying to accomplish. There's not really much else to say, either bad or good, unfortunately.


So pragmatic. You figure this from the 10 minute video that showed mostly some running around and fighting trash mobs. I think at the end of the day its not about certain mechanics differentiating games, its about content and how fun the game is. Every FPS game is the exact same, still people are all over the CoD bandwagon, why?

On a side note: i think the new limit breaks look like a cool party mechanic, pretty flashy too. Cant wait to see the summoning system in action and what they have for content.

#30 Aug 15 2012 at 7:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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kyara10 wrote:
I think at the end of the day its not about certain mechanics differentiating games, its about content and how fun the game is. Every FPS game is the exact same...


That is a good point. As long equal-level battles take more than ~15-20 seconds and there's a fair amount of content, I'd very likely be interested.
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#31 Aug 16 2012 at 2:10 AM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
XIV's battles are so punishing that if even one person disconnects it's pretty much start over/wipe.

This is especially true with Hamlet, Garuda, the level 50 8-man raiding areas, the final AF-quest battles (except WHM), and the higher-level post level 40 Company quests.


Yet party battle feels like a big bar brawl to me. Complete mayhem. Arms, legs, weapons, mobs and explosions everywhere. I think that the thrill should come out of accomplishing something as a group of individuals working as a team, not as a group of people just trying to hit things while keeping their fingers crossed hoping nobody will dc.

Edited, Aug 16th 2012 4:14am by Woofdram
#32 Aug 16 2012 at 2:56 AM Rating: Good
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What would be so wrong with taking the structure of most functional MMOs and fleshing out the uniqueness from something solid?

I think people are expecting something too extreme, especially from a game who's life is hanging in the balance. Lest we forget, the last time SE got unique we were presented with SP and the market wards; the former failing miserably and the latter practically mummified.

Baby steps people. Let them get XIV to a point where it's at least acceptable and then try to forge an identity.
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#33 Aug 16 2012 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know if this was posted but here are screenshots with loads of concept art.

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20120815_553349.html
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#34 Aug 16 2012 at 8:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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I am not a huge fan of the jumping, but I will be glad to be able to hop minor obstacles here and there... I don't see the facination with jumping everywhere though... Will be interested to see how they build this into an already overpacked controller :P

I wish the video was a little better quality, but for the most part I am thrilled with what I see. the game appears to play smoother, they have done away with some unneeded blinking/animations (although I do think it is a little odd to just sprout a chocobo underneath you). What I really liked was the warmth of the areas and the ability to explore more of the map (as opposed to being stuck to paths around Gridania). I really like the look of the post-apocalys town though... a sense of rebuilding happening. The concept art for Ul'dah looks pretty good too... can't wait to see it in game.

I think the important thing for SE right now is not to rock the boat... people complaining that it is just a generic 2005 MMO need to realize that FFXIV was an instant failure because the basic fundamentals were missing. They have added a ton of content and uniqueness to V1.x as of late that makes it stand out in its own way from other MMOs... take that andd combine it with a system that runs smoothly on a next-gen engine with amazing graphics and scenery and you have the foundation of what could be an awesome game. They are never going ot get it perfect at launch, but if they do enough thigs right, they can get a decent base and build from it... at least that is my opinion. I am excited to try it out, and will be a harsh critic, just as I was in the Beta. I do see potential though... something I never saw from the moment I loaded up the FFXIV Alpha.
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#35 Aug 16 2012 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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I am beginning to wonder how many of the posters here even play 14 as it stands at the moment.

It is not that FF14 is trying to be like other MMO its that people who play other MMO have gotten used to certain things and that without them, it feels akward.

1) Jumping - Like it or not pretty much all other MMO beside FF11 let you jump. It is like when WOW added flying mounts and had to go back and add textures to the top of everything because when they built it they didnt think there would ever be flying mounts so why bother animating the tops? Well with no jumping, it is a lot harder to get stuck, so FF11 and 14 both prevented jumping to limit the amount of times/places you can get stuck. It was the lazy way to avoid a good collision detection system.

2) Functional/Customize-able UI: Again, pretty much every MMO aside from FF11 allows you to at least customize their UI, a lot even allow for 3rd party custom made UI. FF14 was a direct mirror of 11, and they didnt have multiple chat tabs, their amount of customization has gotten better but at first you could barely do anything. I fail to see how having the ability to arrange/customize a UI is a bad thing, or how it makes you a 'clone' of other MMO. If you want to be really creative, allow for 3rd party UI, give out source code and software to make officially licensed UI, then host them on the lodestone.

3)... sigh too tired to go on, the majority of things they are fixing are things that really should never have gone live as it was. Who releases an MMO with no system for finding/making parties easy? The challenge of an MMO should not be from finding people and figuring out how to invite them. And I understand the desire to stop hackers/boters by making everything server side, but menu/ui/server lag is unacceptable in 95% of situations in FF14.

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#36 Aug 16 2012 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Woofdram wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
XIV's battles are so punishing that if even one person disconnects it's pretty much start over/wipe.

This is especially true with Hamlet, Garuda, the level 50 8-man raiding areas, the final AF-quest battles (except WHM), and the higher-level post level 40 Company quests.


Yet party battle feels like a big bar brawl to me. Complete mayhem. Arms, legs, weapons, mobs and explosions everywhere. I think that the thrill should come out of accomplishing something as a group of individuals working as a team, not as a group of people just trying to hit things while keeping their fingers crossed hoping nobody will dc.

Edited, Aug 16th 2012 4:14am by Woofdram



You couldn't be farther than the truth.

I was saying each person's contribution to the party is so important that one person not pulling their weight will cause the other party members to notice.

In Ifrit, the tank is required to hold Ifrit somewhere, the White Mages have to be at specific spots, there needs to be constant damage on Ifrit, and it's the damage dealer's responsibility to take down Infernal Nails.

In Garuda, the DDs need to kill the wind adds, the BLMs need to do constant DPS on Garuda, and if one isn't pulling their weight it can be told. Especially in phase 3 with the magic/melee resistant clones that need to be killed in 30 seconds.

If it feels like a big bar brawl, something is gravely wrong with your party's positioning on these fights.
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#37 Aug 16 2012 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
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If it feels like a big bar brawl, something is gravely wrong with your party's positioning on these fights.

Yes, but you know, the game has more than three fights in it.
And I think he wants more than a bar brawl in those, too.
Shocking truth.
#38 Aug 16 2012 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
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If it feels like a big bar brawl, something is gravely wrong with your party's positioning on these fights.

Yes, but you know, the game has more than three fights in it.
And I think he wants more than a bar brawl in those, too.
Shocking truth.


Sorry. Those were only a few examples. Here are more.

Hamlet:

Hamlet requires the use of three crafters in order to alternate Attack+, Defense+, and the occasional Regen.
Requires 2x gatherers to keep Attack Down on the enemies to let the NPCs tank.
Requires 2x WHMs to keep the NPCs alive.
Requires 1x Tank to kite the boss.

One of them is deficient, then you can't get any AF seals because it will be hard to score above 50,000 points.

Cutter's Cry:

The Myrmidon Princess (mid-ant boss) requires DDs to kill the constant swarms of ants and the guard that pops every 60 seconds. There needs to be two tanks for the Princess and the Marshal and appropriate WHMs held at their respective positions so they do not get in the way of ant aggro.

Dzemael Darkhold/Batraal

Batraal requires a tank and WHM duo to hold boss far away while some of the DDs roam around and kill skeleton adds.


There are more examples for Aurum Vale, and each of the respective AF fights. I stand by my sentiment, if it's a bar-brawl in those fights, you're doing it wrong.
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#39 Aug 16 2012 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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Both versions of Nael Darnus can be added to that list.

Let's not forget United We Stand, which is more fun that any BC I've played in FFXI short of Divine Might

And Skirmish, which is effectively a trial run showing off every world NM that you cannot sit and just blitz down.

I'm with Grover on this - if you feel this game is mindless, you need to go out in the game an do something besides grind levels/spirit bind. Those are pretty much the only situation in which fighting in a party feels like a mosh pit.
#40 Aug 16 2012 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I stand by my sentiment, if it's a bar-brawl in those fights, you're doing it wrong.

Looks like you're trying hard to miss the point on purpose. By now, it should be obvious that his concerns were not about special instanced boss fights or scripted encounters, but about normal, unscripted, non-boss encounter party play. If we are lucky, battle flow, skill combination synergies and the limit break system in 2.0 will provide us with a good reason to *not* fire off all of our abilities at once. If so, good. Yoshi's recent comment (here: http://www.4gamer.net/games/092/G009287/20120816021/ ) that fights should take about 20 seconds per enemy however, makes me wonder how much coordination and reactive play (wilful selection of skills according to changes in the battle situation) will be possible in that timespan.
#41 Aug 16 2012 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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P.S.:
BUT! We'll have to wait and see I guess. Perhaps it's just the bad experiences I made in FFXI, when coordination and skillchains suddenly died out with the appearance of the pink chicken expansion.

P.S.II:
Above article also states that EXP grinding will be by far less efficient in comparison to EXP questing than it is now. So perhaps we've seen the last of EXP parties anyway - bereaving this discussion of it's base entirely.

P.S.III:
Hey wait! This could mean that the powerleveling "problem" might be solved at the same time. Nifty. More and more of my gripes with 1.xx seem to evaporate. Dammit. What will I be able to ***** about now? Grass?

Edited, Aug 16th 2012 2:12pm by Rinsui
#42 Aug 16 2012 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know. As much as I originally liked it in XI, I don't have time for full-party leveling with skilled teamwork for every little thing. It's nice for quests, but for EXP grinding, not so much. I would much rather do that in a small party of 3-4. But that's just me.
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#43 Aug 16 2012 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good
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So in all honesty, why should SE give a flying crap about fickle MMO players when they have a demographic of their own, consisting of millions and millions of much more loyal players who are not going to switch to another MMO as soon as one releases? People that play this game because it is a Final Fantasy, not because it is an MMORPG?

Even if only ~3% of said demographic ends up playing this game in the long run, SE still has a profitable cashcow in their hands. And they are doing their hardest to cater to the demographic that matters the most, with Chocobos, Magitek, Limit Breaks, traditional Jobs and Summons.

Even WoW didn't steal it's players from other MMO's- they created a playerbase of their own out of people that hadn't played an MMO before.


I think the important distinction here is that SE was in a prime position to create an audience when they released FFXI. They had an excellent track record, MMOs were still relatively new and novel with few competitors, and gaming in general was still in a phase where expectations were naive.

Fastforward to today, SE's track record is poor, there are dozens of alternatives (many are free), and there's already a game for people who want a Final Fantasy MMO... FFXI. Even die-hard fans like myself have managed to die in the last few years after years of poor management of XI, a subpar release history, and this totally botched launch.

Whether or not I play 2.0 is going to depend heavily on the gameplay features I see. Would I be content to play WoW with a FF flavor? Maybe. But the problem with that formula is that XIV won't have sufficient content to support that pace of play (neither did WoW at its launch, as I recall, nor could one level as quickly). Will they substitute a lack of content for slow-paced progression? Almost definitely. The question is going to be how fun that progression is, and that will be determined by the battle gameplay. If it's dull, then we're in for another long grind just to access a few special cutscenes and battles, and frankly, FFXI wore me out on that.

I'll probably be playing GW2, even though I'd much rather see FFXIV be the next breakaway MMO.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#44 Aug 16 2012 at 1:27 PM Rating: Default
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Also, I'm honestly surprised to see that they're following through with female Roegadyn. Pleased, but surprised.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#45 Aug 17 2012 at 4:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Yoshi's recent comment (here: http://www.4gamer.net/games/092/G009287/20120816021/ ) that fights should take about 20 seconds per enemy however, makes me wonder how much coordination and reactive play (wilful selection of skills according to changes in the battle situation) will be possible in that timespan.


And don't forget about the loss of this thing called hate management.

And you were correct. Of course I was talking about battles in experience parties and not about some exceptions boss fights. Btw, I do not consider "tank grabs boss while others kill the rest" and "stay away from the mages" as all too different from a bar brawl either. Most of the time it is impossible to notice what the other 7 members are doing besides "killing". Ever heard "nice damage!!", "great tanking!" or "please don't turn that mob!" in party? No.

I am sure that every battle system has its charm, and hey... maybe I'm just stuck in the early-to mid 2000's for liking FFXI party play and CoP-like bossfights.
#46 Aug 17 2012 at 6:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm still amazed that you guys think cannon fodder merits having to an epic strategy every single time.

For me, a trash mob is a trash mob. You kill it, and get it out of your way. It's the bigger/harder ones that should take a bit of forward thinking and teamwork. Which, you'd encounter in quests and raids. The rest can blow up.

Rather than make every random crab and bird be some sort of drawn out fight, I'd rather they increase the number of actually memorable fights and make the fodder behave the way fodder should.

More fights like United We Stand and the latest faction quests, less like robber crabs and colibri.

So far the 20 second mob kill isn't a concern for me, as I'm not really interested in fodder unless I'm farming for items or it is quest involved. What I am concerned about is how the new TP system works in longer term fights. One of the parts that I liked about Dragoon was the continual supply of TP that allowed me pretty much to pump out the Weapon Skills nonstop.
#47 Aug 17 2012 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
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Fair game. With quest based leveling, "trash" mobs might be less of an eyesore in the future anyway.
Still, I would prefer longer, challenging fights that provide relatively more EXP over mindless speedkills
that provide less EXP per mob anytime.
#48 Aug 17 2012 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
I'm still amazed that you guys think cannon fodder merits having to an epic strategy every single time.


People enjoy different things.

This concept of 'trash mob' hasn't always been a concept in MMORPGs, specifically the FF series. There were no 'cannon fodder' mobs in FFXI, every battle was a test of group coordination and abilities in the hopes of dispatching the mob quicker for better exp/hour rates.

Obviously, the genre has changed since then and this sort of approach is no longer in style. That doesn't mean FFXIV wont' be an enjoyable game - far from it - it just simply means some of us would have enjoyed a throwback to traditional MMORPG styles. Some of us personally don't enjoy the breakneck leveling pace with five second solo trash mob kills approach that are now so common in MMORPGs.
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#49 Aug 17 2012 at 7:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Whales wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
I'm still amazed that you guys think cannon fodder merits having to an epic strategy every single time.



This concept of 'trash mob' hasn't always been a concept in MMORPGs, specifically the FF series. There were no 'cannon fodder' mobs in FFXI, every battle was a test of group coordination and abilities in the hopes of dispatching the mob quicker for better exp/hour rates.


FF has only one entry in MMOs, aside from FFXIV, and in their single player RPGs, they were absolutely flooded with trash mobs.

In fact you could wipe an entire encounter (or most of it) with a single spell if you chose appropriately or simply outleveled the content.

The point of what these encounters engaging is that these monsters were also often paired either in random encounters or in the same encounter, with heavier monsters that took more time to kill.

Looking at the video, I saw a Treant link with all of the little marmots that showed up, and Yoshida avoided the Treant. So the system of 'encounters' verse just fighting a single trash mob over and over again is there. I hope they use it with intelligent frequency. Making engagements more interesting does not always mean every monster has to be difficult to fight. I'm in support of the group v group concept FFXIV often goes with, verses the Group vs 1 monster FFXI was notorious for.
#50 Aug 17 2012 at 7:51 AM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Looking at the video, I saw a Treant link with all of the little marmots that showed up, and Yoshida avoided the Treant. So the system of 'encounters' verse just fighting a single trash mob over and over again is there. I hope they use it with intelligent frequency. Making engagements more interesting does not always mean every monster has to be difficult to fight. I'm in support of the group v group concept FFXIV often goes with, verses the Group vs 1 monster FFXI was notorious for.


Right. I'm not saying FFXIV's approach is going to be bad or unenjoyable - far from it, we simply don't know much about it and it's ignorant to form an opinion without having played it.

I was just simply pointing out that people enjoy different things, specifically when it comes to MMORPGs.
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#51 Aug 17 2012 at 8:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
Fair game. With quest based leveling, "trash" mobs might be less of an eyesore in the future anyway.
Still, I would prefer longer, challenging fights that provide relatively more EXP over mindless speedkills
that provide less EXP per mob anytime.

This and more of this... Crabs in the Dunes would have been much more tolerable if that 3-5 minute fight meant I got 500+ exp... but nothing was more depressing than killing it and only getting like 150exp because one person in the PT was 1 level higher than everyone else. I know they have moved past that, but I did like the feel of team against monster in the early days of FFXI... learning how and when to use your abilities. It wasn't until about 2 weeks after I got DRG to 50 in FFXIV before I finally got to fight things that I was able to play around with my self skillchaining stuff... and that is depressing.

Hopefully a lot of the questing will be to go fight big things (take a page from XII and put 'marks' in the game please!) or at least make it a decent challenge of some sort... if it is continual meaningless fetch quests for exp I doubt many people will respond well...
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