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Gamescom 2012 "A Realm Reborn" Screenshots.Follow

#52 Aug 17 2012 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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Is it my imagination or is that lvl50 xp bar moving? Looks as though it's gone from 0/550000 in the first screenshot to 57/550000 in the jumping chocobos one. Are we getting a cap increase that I don't know about?
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#53 Aug 17 2012 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
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For me, a trash mob is a trash mob. You kill it, and get it out of your way. It's the bigger/harder ones that should take a bit of forward thinking and teamwork. Which, you'd encounter in quests and raids. The rest can blow up.

Rather than make every random crab and bird be some sort of drawn out fight, I'd rather they increase the number of actually memorable fights and make the fodder behave the way fodder should.


That's lazy design at work. Trash mobs like that are fine if they're a part of a more epic encounter where they contribute to the greater challenge, but as the main fare? No. A lot of what made FFXI great were those five minute fights with a single XP mob. Look at successful games like Monster Hunter-- that game is entirely boss fights. Trash style mobs in FFXI Assaults, where there's some objective other than "kill trash mobs, earn ideal XP:hour," is also perfectly fine. The idea that leveling should be a boring grind by design is not only uninventive, but a weakness that games have allowed to proliferate because other strengths have permitted them to be successful regardless.

The problem, as others have pointed out here, and I pointed out a thousand times in the past, was that they didn't reward you for those epic battles. They NEVER did it the way they should have, and they only made it worse with the type of burn parties that became increasingly popularized until they became the norm. I remember when 5k an hour was considered great XP, because players hadn't figured out that you got much better XP/hour chaining VTs. At the same time, SE was struggling with the problem of overcrowded camps. The obvious solution was always to reward players for taking on monsters well above their level, so that if you spent 15 minutes killing that crab, you were rewarded with at least a few thousand XP, not the 200xp cap. And to rub it in, you would get jack XP for ACTUAL boss fights, too. Players LOVED to see those big number XPs (what became not very affectionately known as big number syndrome), because they were feedback on a challenge overcome. The answer wasn't for the players to change their habits to be more efficient, but for SE to change the game to make it more fun, but SE always took some ******** impressionist defense of their game, asking players to enjoy it for what it was, in their own way, as if it was some work of art.

It was this inability to see such a simple and elegant solution for so long (and still today) that made me lose a lot of faith in SE's design team. A simple change to this algorithm could have made FFXI an incredibly successful game, competitive with WoW. Instead, they stayed stuck in the era where every MMO was special, even as that era flew by... all because SE apparently doesn't understand basic game psychology and systems design.
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#54 Aug 17 2012 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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Would be awesome if you could exp on challenging monsters in a way that was worth your time. Plowing through easy prey is pretty boring... at least in XI they've set up exp to be minimally painful. I'm not really up for a long grind on easy prey and boring quest spamming. I didn't even make it to 20 in WoW because of that. (Well now I have a max capped char cause someone used a scroll of resurrection on me, lol, speaking of "starting from level cap" - I still don't have any interest in playing though)
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#55 Aug 17 2012 at 11:52 AM Rating: Default
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Trash mobs where present in FFXI, Anything that was not a Boss/elite was in fact a trash mob, those monsters we grinded on hours upon hours where in fact trash mobs, there was nothing epic beating them for the 7897694th time in a row, it was a chore, that was it, if you enjoy that well you are in fact stuck in time, and i am pretty sure there will be mobs in 2.0 that you can kill for millions upon millions of times and call it a challenge.
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#56 Aug 17 2012 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Trash mobs where present in FFXI, Anything that was not a Boss/elite was in fact a trash mob, those monsters we grinded on hours upon hours where in fact trash mobs, there was nothing epic beating them for the 7897694th time in a row, it was a chore, that was it, if you enjoy that well you are in fact stuck in time, and i am pretty sure there will be mobs in 2.0 that you can kill for millions upon millions of times and call it a challenge.


Again, this gets to the fundamental semantic problem of "grinding". What makes a mob trash? You're defining it as anything that isn't a boss, and that's fine. The discussion we're having is about whether trash mobs should be treated as trash... whether they should be challenging, or if it's fine that they're easy.

People toss these terms around without understanding the interaction between design elements and the psychology of having fun that they address. A trash mob is not an objectively definable thing that designers put in. Whether or not a mob is trash is an indication of the general player value of that mob. When you say that something is trash, you're implying that it is something you can do without-- not a valuable, core part of the gaming experience. In a game like Monster Hunter, where half of the combat is repetition of "boss fights," does that make those fights trash as well? One could certainly argue that it is, but that's the majority of what makes the game fun. Just because you're fighting the same monsters over and over doesn't necessarily diminish the fun, because those monsters are challenging and each battle tests your skills.

So if every trash mob in FFXI tested your skills, how meaningful is it to call it trash? When the game was early in its release and parties insisted on fighting only Incredibly Tough monsters, even though it would take five minutes to earn 200 xp, those mobs didn't feel like trash, even if they were designed to be. The challenge of a boss, afterall, is not determined by some special "boss" flag that hides in the programming, or what loot they drop, but by how challenging they are and how high they scale according to the party's level. Erego, anything can be just as challenging as a boss if you attempt it at a low enough level. If a battle takes me five minutes to win and I stand a real risk of losing, I don't consider that trash, or a trash mob.

But there has to be an appropriate challenge for a game to be fun--that's psych 101. The problem with FFXI was that SE fixed the reward without allowing for fluidity of challenge, so there was a poor interplay between task value and challenge. Players could not pick the level of challenge that matched their skills while being appropriately rewarded for doing so. Had they made all of those "trash mobs" an appropriate challenge, they wouldn't have felt like trash. Five minutes against a crab for 200xp makes it feel like trash. Five minutes against a crab for 5000xp probably would not. Terms like trash mob and grind are inherently subjective for this reason.

Now granted, it was another poor but separate design decision which kept players in the same camps like Crawler's Nest for weeks and weeks.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#57 Aug 17 2012 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
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I boils down to a simple question. Do you enjoy strategy in the combat system or not? I have often argued that strategy cannot exist in battles where monsters die before you can use your second ability (the case with most monsters, not bosses, in XIV). I stand corrected by some of the posts on this thread. As was shown in the gameplay footage, if they are used as a part of a larger strategy then these weaker mobs are useful.

However, the battle system in XIV will still annoy me until it becomes fun on its own. A stand-alone battle system that encourages strategic use of skills and party play will win out over one that is more focused on the individual. More challenging intermediate content and a few more abilities are still sorely needed.
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#58 Aug 17 2012 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
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double post ;_;

Edited, Aug 17th 2012 6:29pm by kainsilv
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#59 Aug 17 2012 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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kainsilv wrote:
I have often argued that strategy cannot exist in battles where monsters die before you can use your second ability


I agree. Monsters with too few HP just feel like a tedious slog. It won't matter how many abilities you have at your disposal so long as your opponent's dead immediately, almost regardless of what key you press.
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#60 Aug 17 2012 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Trash mobs where present in FFXI, Anything that was not a Boss/elite was in fact a trash mob, those monsters we grinded on hours upon hours where in fact trash mobs, there was nothing epic beating them for the 7897694th time in a row, it was a chore, that was it, if you enjoy that well you are in fact stuck in time, and i am pretty sure there will be mobs in 2.0 that you can kill for millions upon millions of times and call it a challenge.


Again, this gets to the fundamental semantic problem of "grinding". What makes a mob trash? You're defining it as anything that isn't a boss, and that's fine. The discussion we're having is about whether trash mobs should be treated as trash... whether they should be challenging, or if it's fine that they're easy.

People toss these terms around without understanding the interaction between design elements and the psychology of having fun that they address. A trash mob is not an objectively definable thing that designers put in. Whether or not a mob is trash is an indication of the general player value of that mob. When you say that something is trash, you're implying that it is something you can do without-- not a valuable, core part of the gaming experience. In a game like Monster Hunter, where half of the combat is repetition of "boss fights," does that make those fights trash as well? One could certainly argue that it is, but that's the majority of what makes the game fun. Just because you're fighting the same monsters over and over doesn't necessarily diminish the fun, because those monsters are challenging and each battle tests your skills.

So if every trash mob in FFXI tested your skills, how meaningful is it to call it trash? When the game was early in its release and parties insisted on fighting only Incredibly Tough monsters, even though it would take five minutes to earn 200 xp, those mobs didn't feel like trash, even if they were designed to be. The challenge of a boss, afterall, is not determined by some special "boss" flag that hides in the programming, or what loot they drop, but by how challenging they are and how high they scale according to the party's level. Erego, anything can be just as challenging as a boss if you attempt it at a low enough level. If a battle takes me five minutes to win and I stand a real risk of losing, I don't consider that trash, or a trash mob.

But there has to be an appropriate challenge for a game to be fun--that's psych 101. The problem with FFXI was that SE fixed the reward without allowing for fluidity of challenge, so there was a poor interplay between task value and challenge. Players could not pick the level of challenge that matched their skills while being appropriately rewarded for doing so. Had they made all of those "trash mobs" an appropriate challenge, they wouldn't have felt like trash. Five minutes against a crab for 200xp makes it feel like trash. Five minutes against a crab for 5000xp probably would not. Terms like trash mob and grind are inherently subjective for this reason.

Now granted, it was another poor but separate design decision which kept players in the same camps like Crawler's Nest for weeks and weeks.


Any monster that is not the boss of the stage in monster hunter is trash, do you disagree ? Also trash mobs in XI where still trash mobs, and required little to no skills, in fact very little fights in XI required very skillful play, if you where to compare them to other MMO Fights, what SE did was have trash mobs with tons of HP so that a fight that should have ended in 20-30 seconds, takes you a minute, and a party in most ocassions, they where not hard because you where required to be at your toes 100% of the time or you wiped, they where hard because you could not solo them, and required a party in order to progress, that is artificial difficulty, did it work for XI ? Sure!!! XI came right after EQ! So the transition was great, will it work now ? **** No!! There are tons of better ways to progress than mindlessly killing the same critter over and over and over and over and it taking lots and lots of time and effort, just for the sake of it.
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#61 Aug 17 2012 at 8:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
what SE did was have trash mobs with tons of HP so that a fight that should have ended in 20-30 seconds, takes you a minute, and a party in most ocassions, they where not hard because you where required to be at your toes 100% of the time or you wiped, they where hard because you could not solo them, and required a party in order to progress

That's part of the reason. The other part is that the game scaled horribly. A bunny that was easy prey at level 5 could be killed in a few hits with very little danger. Go to Cape Terrigan when you're 75 and pick on his big brother bunny that is still easy prey, you might have your *** handed to you on a platter.

Still to this day I think about how much people farmed to have a piece of gear with 1 more str or 2 more atk and just laugh. When those point or two differences are having a drastic effect on gameplay and mean the difference between gimp or being geared, your game has scaling issues.

I completely understand the need to have mobs last a certain amount of time, but it's almost completely based on respawn. The rest is aggro based. At level 1 you can populate the **** out of the zone because next to nothing will aggro you. If they had scaled mobs correctly they would have to populate the higher level areas much more densely and it would be a hassle trying to get through a zone.

Edited, Aug 17th 2012 10:41pm by FilthMcNasty
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#62 Aug 17 2012 at 9:43 PM Rating: Good
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Any monster that is not the boss of the stage in monster hunter is trash, do you disagree ? Also trash mobs in XI where still trash mobs, and required little to no skills, in fact very little fights in XI required very skillful play, if you where to compare them to other MMO Fights, what SE did was have trash mobs with tons of HP so that a fight that should have ended in 20-30 seconds, takes you a minute, and a party in most ocassions, they where not hard because you where required to be at your toes 100% of the time or you wiped, they where hard because you could not solo them, and required a party in order to progress, that is artificial difficulty, did it work for XI ? Sure!!! XI came right after EQ! So the transition was great, will it work now ? **** No!! There are tons of better ways to progress than mindlessly killing the same critter over and over and over and over and it taking lots and lots of time and effort, just for the sake of it.


Yes, I disagree. Actually, I disagree with a lot of this.

I'm not sure when you played FFXI, but in the first 2-3 years of the game, the average XP battle required skillful play. XP parties died ALL THE TIME solely due to an inability to cooperate and perform skillfully. You did have to be on your toes all the time.

Of course, FFXI is different now and has been for years.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#63 Aug 18 2012 at 2:49 PM Rating: Default
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Kachi wrote:
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Any monster that is not the boss of the stage in monster hunter is trash, do you disagree ? Also trash mobs in XI where still trash mobs, and required little to no skills, in fact very little fights in XI required very skillful play, if you where to compare them to other MMO Fights, what SE did was have trash mobs with tons of HP so that a fight that should have ended in 20-30 seconds, takes you a minute, and a party in most ocassions, they where not hard because you where required to be at your toes 100% of the time or you wiped, they where hard because you could not solo them, and required a party in order to progress, that is artificial difficulty, did it work for XI ? Sure!!! XI came right after EQ! So the transition was great, will it work now ? **** No!! There are tons of better ways to progress than mindlessly killing the same critter over and over and over and over and it taking lots and lots of time and effort, just for the sake of it.


Yes, I disagree. Actually, I disagree with a lot of this.

I'm not sure when you played FFXI, but in the first 2-3 years of the game, the average XP battle required skillful play. XP parties died ALL THE TIME solely due to an inability to cooperate and perform skillfully. You did have to be on your toes all the time.

Of course, FFXI is different now and has been for years.


Common sense and basic knowledge of how to engage auto-attack and hit an ability when told isn't "skillful play" -- it's "Not Being An Idiot."

Stop trying to assign "skillful play" to basic tenants of any game. You auto-attacked and hit a WS when your time was up. You healed when someone took damage; you cringed when someone took hate because the enmity system of FFXI was (and still is) broken and utterly useless.

No, you try to believe it was some "skillful" endeavor simply because the popular mindset back in the day was to go after the monster that gave the most experience. People died because of terrible gear and itemization while leveling and trying to stick with the JP mentality of Tank/Support/Healer/BLM/2DD, and simply accepting that fights took a long time. You can call that skillful, but I call that being an idiot and not looking at the writing on the wall.

Leveling up in FFXI, pre-Dancer, consisted of autoattacking/snacking, hit a macro item when it came time to WS, and hitting another macro to go back into TP gear. Once every 5-10 minutes you *MIGHT* have an ability to hit that *MIGHT* give you an attack boost (that also drew ridiculous hate) that didn't matter because you were still going to wiff on those IT++ mobs since sushi didn't exist.

Your rose-tinted glasses are showing.

FFXI's leveling was, is, and will always be as basic as it gets. Stop trying to herald it up on a platform that doesn't even exist. Leveling in FFXI pre-Abyssea required a few things but skill was not one of them.

Edited, Aug 18th 2012 4:50pm by Viertel
#64 Aug 18 2012 at 6:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I have no rose-colored glasses about FFXI. It was a deeply flawed game right from the beginning. However, taking on challenging mobs with poor gear DID require skill. It required good teamwork. Was that as true for a job like MNK that whiffed until it got TP as for a class with a more diverse skill set? No. But it was overall a challenge of coordinating enmity to survive what a single tank could not, coordinating magic bursts, avoiding links, and smart pulling, to name a few things. It was in many ways as challenging as many of FFXI's boss fights. Contrast this to the average modern MMO, and no such challenge exists.

Skill only exists in these games in relation to statistics. If you go at a challenge with poor gear and choose over-leveled prey, then that requires combat skill even if it's not smart play. Most any recent MMO has relied too heavily on single-player skills which could easily fall into simple rotation and could be played optimally with little forethought. FFXI is one of few that required full group-play dynamics early on. Had they capitalized on those qualities, they would have had a game that sucked on the same level as every nearly other game in most departments, and really shone in one of the most important ones. Even though most of these games require little genuine novel strategy, they often require a refinement in execution, which when coupled with group play, presents exponentially scaling possibilities for challenge.

Try taking on a monster 20 levels above you in a game like WoW or SWTOR. Whether or not you win or lose-- and you will probably lose-- depends primarily on the RNG. The same is true of FFXI, but in FFXI you wouldn't be solo to begin with. Managing that same feat with a party in FFXI is potentially doable with skillful execution. No one would try because 200 xp wouldn't be worth it.

So I must stand emphatically by my earlier statements.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#65 Aug 18 2012 at 7:19 PM Rating: Default
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Kachi wrote:
I have no rose-colored glasses about FFXI. It was a deeply flawed game right from the beginning. However, taking on challenging mobs with poor gear DID require skill. It required good teamwork. Was that as true for a job like MNK that whiffed until it got TP as for a class with a more diverse skill set? No. But it was overall a challenge of coordinating enmity to survive what a single tank could not, coordinating magic bursts, avoiding links, and smart pulling, to name a few things. It was in many ways as challenging as many of FFXI's boss fights. Contrast this to the average modern MMO, and no such challenge exists.

Skill only exists in these games in relation to statistics. If you go at a challenge with poor gear and choose over-leveled prey, then that requires combat skill even if it's not smart play. Most any recent MMO has relied too heavily on single-player skills which could easily fall into simple rotation and could be played optimally with little forethought. FFXI is one of few that required full group-play dynamics early on. Had they capitalized on those qualities, they would have had a game that sucked on the same level as every nearly other game in most departments, and really shone in one of the most important ones. Even though most of these games require little genuine novel strategy, they often require a refinement in execution, which when coupled with group play, presents exponentially scaling possibilities for challenge.

Try taking on a monster 20 levels above you in a game like WoW or SWTOR. Whether or not you win or lose-- and you will probably lose-- depends primarily on the RNG. The same is true of FFXI, but in FFXI you wouldn't be solo to begin with. Managing that same feat with a party in FFXI is potentially doable with skillful execution. No one would try because 200 xp wouldn't be worth it.

So I must stand emphatically by my earlier statements.


Name me one hardmode fight in WOW that does not requires Party skill, **** name me one non hardmode fight in ulduar that did not require party skill.

There are far more non hardmode, **** more dungeon boss fights that require hard party skill (At their level/and gear level of course) that there are skill required fights the entirety of FFXI lifespan.

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#66 Aug 18 2012 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
FFXI is one of few that required full group-play dynamics early on.

I lol'd.

I'd agree that there were ways to coordinate your group to take down mobs more quickly or efficiently, but XI never required a whole lot of communication. Nearly everything was reactive like stated before; healing when someone takes damage, provoking when someone else takes aggro, stunning when you see a cast from an enemy and things like that weren't really challenging.

Any of the fights that did require team skill were all automated by chat assisted macros. TP notices or tells for stun order don't really qualify as coordination or skill in my opinion.

Kachi wrote:
Try taking on a monster 20 levels above you in a game like WoW or SWTOR.

Levels are supposed to be a measure of capability. In WoW, you're not supposed to be able to down mobs that are so far ahead of you. I can't speak for SWtoR, but this honestly makes sense. Like I said before, you know something is wrong with your scaling when a mob that checks 'easy prey' sends you running to the zone after you barely make a scratch in it's health. In WoW, at least you know that you can defeat a mob around your level.

RNG? In WoW at least you understood exactly how much hit you needed to land your abilities all of the time. In XI, you could walk outside of the gate to Ronfaure and whiff a bunny 80 levels below you on three consecutive swings.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#67 Aug 18 2012 at 8:36 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Levels are supposed to be a measure of capability. In WoW, you're not supposed to be able to down mobs that are so far ahead of you. I can't speak for SWtoR, but this honestly makes sense.


I'd prefer skill coming into play more prominently somewhere and, in WoW, it doesn't. WoW's hand-holding is such that it flat out disallows you from even attempting a greater challenge. I will explain:

When my wife and I played WoW we grew very bored of the literally two-second battles (we were around level 60; she'd use a hunter ability and I a druid one... then we'd already have won). We tried to fight monsters that were around 7-10 levels ahead of us - we certainly had the gear and skill sets to accomplish the battle - but the way scaling works in that game, you simply lost almost all of your accuracy and critical chance if you dared fight a monster that Blizzard deemed "too high for you." Additionally, you weren't even able to accept quests unless you met minimum level requirements, at which point even the hardest quests were a paltry walk in the park.

In short, I believe that a more open-world / sandbox approach is best, where stats and monsters scale gradually to the point that it's your stats and damage potential that prevents you from beating a monster, not a harsh wall of intervention placed arbitrarily at multiples of five by designers. If you have the skill, the gear, and the people, you should be able to confront the challenge, even if that challenge happens to be nine levels higher than you.
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#68 Aug 18 2012 at 9:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Um.. so yeah I see large portions of my future spent in Eorzea.
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#69 Aug 19 2012 at 1:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:

Name me one hardmode fight in WOW that does not requires Party skill, **** name me one non hardmode fight in ulduar that did not require party skill.

There are far more non hardmode, **** more dungeon boss fights that require hard party skill (At their level/and gear level of course) that there are skill required fights the entirety of FFXI lifespan.



Please, are you seriously saying that in terms of skillsand "other things" WoW is in the same league as FFXI?


If you want to kid yourself then that's fine. But please do not kid others, ok? WoW has always been seen as the easier game. Easier to make money, easier to level up and easier fights. (And 'toons" could jump!) Let's not try to almost reverse things all of a sudden.
#70 Aug 19 2012 at 1:57 AM Rating: Decent
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MrMissile wrote:
Ostia wrote:

Name me one hardmode fight in WOW that does not requires Party skill, **** name me one non hardmode fight in ulduar that did not require party skill.

There are far more non hardmode, **** more dungeon boss fights that require hard party skill (At their level/and gear level of course) that there are skill required fights the entirety of FFXI lifespan.



Please, are you seriously saying that in terms of skillsand "other things" WoW is in the same league as FFXI?


If you want to kid yourself then that's fine. But please do not kid others, ok? WoW has always been seen as the easier game. Easier to make money, easier to level up and easier fights. (And 'toons" could jump!) Let's not try to almost reverse things all of a sudden.


What legue ? The tank & Spank boss fights one ? Seriously ?

The only people that "Think" XI was harder are morons and XI players, the two are often times one and only in reality, the only part that you got right was leveling, and since when is leveling supposed to be hard ? if we compare the two way's both MMO'S treat leveling none of them is harder than the other, grinding mindlessly mob after mob for a billion times is not a challenge is a time sink, and grinding quest is basically the same thing, now on the subjects of fights.... Please please XI was a joke as far as boss fights mechanics where concerned, more often than not, the hardest part was beating the RGN gods and getting the drops required to access said bosses... That does not requires SKILLS it required TIME!

When you can name me 10 fights in XI harder than mirmiron hard mode of wow, then maybe you have a case, until then you have none....

Oh and i know you are gonna mention those 2 horribly design bosses that required 10-18-24 hours to beat.... Yeah if Blizzard released The Lich King as he was in Wrath of the lich King on release, nobody would have beaten him for 6 years either...... Kinda absurd to claim a boss is hard, when the tools to even stand a chance againts him are 50 updates down the road :/

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#71 Aug 19 2012 at 2:21 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Levels are supposed to be a measure of capability. In WoW, you're not supposed to be able to down mobs that are so far ahead of you. I can't speak for SWtoR, but this honestly makes sense.


I'd prefer skill coming into play more prominently somewhere and, in WoW, it doesn't. WoW's hand-holding is such that it flat out disallows you from even attempting a greater challenge. I will explain:

When my wife and I played WoW we grew very bored of the literally two-second battles (we were around level 60; she'd use a hunter ability and I a druid one... then we'd already have won). We tried to fight monsters that were around 7-10 levels ahead of us - we certainly had the gear and skill sets to accomplish the battle - but the way scaling works in that game, you simply lost almost all of your accuracy and critical chance if you dared fight a monster that Blizzard deemed "too high for you."


You definitely didn't have the gear especially at that level. The type of gear you need to cap hit takes running instanced content, not quest trash. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about your skill, but even if you reforged every piece of gear to have hit it wouldn't be possible to get anything acceptable beyond a few levels.

Had you and your wife tried to duo a mob 7-10 levels higher than you in XI, which would be VT++ to IT++, quick work would have been made of both of you so I'm not sure why you used that as a comparison.

KaneKitty wrote:
In short, I believe that a more open-world / sandbox approach is best, where stats and monsters scale gradually to the point that it's your stats and damage potential that prevents you from beating a monster, not a harsh wall of intervention placed arbitrarily at multiples of five by designers. If you have the skill, the gear, and the people, you should be able to confront the challenge, even if that challenge happens to be nine levels higher than you.


Harsh wall of intervention? I don't understand the multiple of five thing either so maybe you could explain.

The 9 level thing seems really arbitrary to me too. Gotta draw a line somewhere man. Why does it matter that it's only 3 and not 9?
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#72 Aug 19 2012 at 2:51 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
WoW has always been seen as the easier game. Easier to make money, easier to level up and easier fights. (And 'toons" could jump!) Let's not try to almost reverse things all of a sudden.

How many years have you played WoW?
#73 Aug 19 2012 at 3:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
WoW has always been seen as the easier game. Easier to make money, easier to level up and easier fights. (And 'toons" could jump!) Let's not try to almost reverse things all of a sudden.

How many years have you played WoW?

Don't answer that, it's a trap!
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#74 Aug 19 2012 at 4:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
WoW has always been seen as the easier game. Easier to make money, easier to level up and easier fights. (And 'toons" could jump!) Let's not try to almost reverse things all of a sudden.

How many years have you played WoW?


Way more days than Filth was able to invest in FFXIV.

Good enough?
#75 Aug 19 2012 at 5:39 AM Rating: Default
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wow they made FFXIV to another WoW clone

good ******* job
#76 Aug 19 2012 at 6:46 AM Rating: Decent
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MrMissile wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
WoW has always been seen as the easier game. Easier to make money, easier to level up and easier fights. (And 'toons" could jump!) Let's not try to almost reverse things all of a sudden.

How many years have you played WoW?


Way more days than Filth was able to invest in FFXIV.

Good enough?


Well you only really needed one day in XIV to know that killing dodos was all there was to the game at release..... Now on wow it was a different story so.....
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#77 Aug 19 2012 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Well you only really needed one day in XIV to know that killing dodos was all there was to the game at release..... Now on wow it was a different story so.....


Same can be said about the release of WoW, but let's not bring logic and reason somewhere it doesn't belong.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#78 Aug 19 2012 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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reaper2516 wrote:
wow they made FFXIV to another WoW clone

good @#%^ing job


Why, because you can jump over a fence and have a useful mount? Other than that, nothing in that video was anything like WoW. The scale, art style, music style, combat, animations, classes, and yes even the UI is different from WoW. It's SE's take on an MMO. MMO's have certain elements that always work and removing them just ruins the flow of our experience. Do you prefer a UI that you can't customize? A whistle with charges on it for your mount that you have to recharge? Did you enjoy having to run around a shin-high rock? What exactly do people have against standard conveniences in a game? It doesn't make the boss fights any easier. Maybe I'm forgetting that some of FFXI's community always thought tedium equalled challenge.

You have next to no solid proof that this game will be anything near a WoW clone.
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#79 Aug 19 2012 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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MrMissile wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
WoW has always been seen as the easier game. Easier to make money, easier to level up and easier fights. (And 'toons" could jump!) Let's not try to almost reverse things all of a sudden.

How many years have you played WoW?


Way more days than Filth was able to invest in FFXIV.

Good enough?


MrMissile wrote:
The repetetive complaints and bashing of someone who does not even play [WoW] anymore


I warned him...
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#80 Aug 19 2012 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I remember prior to XIV 1.0 release when the forums were buzzing with WoW players tired of their game and thinking about switching to XIV when its released.

At the time you could clearly witness of two sides: XI players that were like "we want a XI-2, xp in groups onry, also we love our mature community so WoW kiddos" etc, and the other side was said WoW players that were posting many suggestions, and also complaining because well, XIV wasn't basically WoW 2. One of these complaints was that you couldn't jump in XIV! (don't even get me started on how ridiculous I think it is).

Anyway, seeing the gameplay footage and how much the characters are non-stop jumping arround like retards makes me seriously wonder if it's not a hint to WoW players, or "new schools" mmorpg players in general, to really make sure everyone understands you can now jump! (weee!)
#81 Aug 19 2012 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Your entire post is a meandering drabble of stupidity. So let's break it down.

Kachi wrote:
I have no rose-colored glasses about FFXI. It was a deeply flawed game right from the beginning.


Yes, you do: your glasses are so damned rose-colored you're seeing 16-bit.

And here we disagree: FFXI was a boring, grinding game. It wasn't, however, flawed as FFXIV was upon launch. FFXI worked even if it wasn't as enjoyable now as it was then.

Kachi wrote:
However, taking on challenging mobs with poor gear DID require skill. It required good teamwork. Was that as true for a job like MNK that whiffed until it got TP as for a class with a more diverse skill set? No. But it was overall a challenge of coordinating enmity to survive what a single tank could not, coordinating magic bursts, avoiding links, and smart pulling, to name a few things. It was in many ways as challenging as many of FFXI's boss fights. Contrast this to the average modern MMO, and no such challenge exists.


Oh, you mean the tank and spank fights? Because that's pretty much what *EVERYTHING* FFXI revolved around. And if it wasn't T'n'S it was kited to death.

/yawn

Oh yeah, really skillful there, let me tell you. That's some really advanced teamwork: running around in circles using pathing "exploiting" (and I use this very, very loosely) so that you can avoid as many hits/spells as possible. FFXI boss fights are the most basic of encounters. They were then, they are now. Tight tuning of numbers doesn't change the basic fact -- that you wish to avoid admitting even though it is true -- that the fights themselves are incredibly basic.

FFXI's difficulty level is as Fisher-Price as World of Warcraft. The only thing that was ever challenging about FFXI's boss fights were actually landing the damned tag when they spawned. Denying this doesn't make it any less true and trying to pass off group-required leveling as "more challenging" is utterly pathetic.

Kachi wrote:
Skill only exists in these games in relation to statistics. If you go at a challenge with poor gear and choose over-leveled prey, then that requires combat skill even if it's not smart play. Most any recent MMO has relied too heavily on single-player skills which could easily fall into simple rotation and could be played optimally with little forethought. FFXI is one of few that required full group-play dynamics early on. Had they capitalized on those qualities, they would have had a game that sucked on the same level as every nearly other game in most departments, and really shone in one of the most important ones. Even though most of these games require little genuine novel strategy, they often require a refinement in execution, which when coupled with group play, presents exponentially scaling possibilities for challenge.


Skill in FFXI consisted of writing a macro to swap gear for an action.

Period.

The rest of the paragraph tries to play up the fact that leveling consisted of "auto-attacking a monster to death with very little player input". No skill involved; basic group building isn't a damned skill.

Pure and incorrect nostagia.


Kachi wrote:
Try taking on a monster 20 levels above you in a game like WoW or SWTOR. Whether or not you win or lose-- and you will probably lose-- depends primarily on the RNG. The same is true of FFXI, but in FFXI you wouldn't be solo to begin with. Managing that same feat with a party in FFXI is potentially doable with skillful execution. No one would try because 200 xp wouldn't be worth it.


"HAI GUYZ IMMA SAY THAT ITS OK TO GROUP UP TO KILL A HIGHER LEVEL MOB IN MY NOSTALGIC MMO BUT NOT OK FOR THE OTHER ONES MMKKTHXBAII!!!!! IF IT NOT FFXI GROUPING UP DUN COUNT!!1111!!11"

Kachi wrote:
So I must stand emphatically by my earlier statements.


Too bad they're incorrect.

And I still stand by the fact that you clearly don't understand what you're typing nor do you understand that about which you speak.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Back to OP, after looking at the higher fidelity footage posted yesterday it does look immediately more responsive, and hopefully it actually feels that responsive as well. The actual look of the area the footage was shot showed an area that had more warmth and inviting look than anywhere currently in FFXIV.

I'll be glad to give this another shot when it launches. I doubt it'll get the massive numbers some people are foolishly banking on, but I hope it does at least attractive a playerbase equal to FFXI at its height (500-600K).

Cole80 wrote:
I remember prior to XIV 1.0 release when the forums were buzzing with WoW players tired of their game and thinking about switching to XIV when its released.

At the time you could clearly witness of two sides: XI players that were like "we want a XI-2, xp in groups onry, also we love our mature community so WoW kiddos" etc, and the other side was said WoW players that were posting many suggestions, and also complaining because well, XIV wasn't basically WoW 2. One of these complaints was that you couldn't jump in XIV! (don't even get me started on how ridiculous I think it is).

Anyway, seeing the gameplay footage and how much the characters are non-stop jumping arround like retards makes me seriously wonder if it's not a hint to WoW players, or "new schools" mmorpg players in general, to really make sure everyone understands you can now jump! (weee!)


Freedom of movement and not feeling like a stiff drone is never a bad thing. If people jumping seriously bothers you that much, you're the one with issues.

Edited, Aug 19th 2012 3:11pm by Viertel
#82 Aug 19 2012 at 2:02 PM Rating: Default
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Hyanmen wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Well you only really needed one day in XIV to know that killing dodos was all there was to the game at release..... Now on wow it was a different story so.....


Same can be said about the release of WoW, but let's not bring logic and reason somewhere it doesn't belong.


Because World of Warcraft did not lauch with 15 Dungeons across levels 1-50 nor did it contain around 2k quest's... Nor did it release with an end game RAID....

Yes lets compare XIV with WOW lol
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#83 Aug 19 2012 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Viertel wrote:
FFXI boss fights are the most basic of encounters. They were then, they are now.

Actually, they're even easier now. Buff with Perfect Defense and Embrava and you can remove the need to kite. With the TP regain it allows everyone to zerg spam like a Kraken Club wielding DRK.

cole80 wrote:
One of these complaints was that you couldn't jump in XIV! (don't even get me started on how ridiculous I think it is).

This complaint wouldn't have been ridiculous at all if it wasn't at least equally ridiculous that you couldn't walk over landscape that to scale, was a foot higher or lower than what you were already standing on. Not being able to jump wouldn't have bothered people if they could navigate terrain without having to go far out of their way to get around a foot tall ledge.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#84 Aug 19 2012 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
MrMissile wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
WoW has always been seen as the easier game. Easier to make money, easier to level up and easier fights. (And 'toons" could jump!) Let's not try to almost reverse things all of a sudden.

How many years have you played WoW?


Way more days than Filth was able to invest in FFXIV.

Good enough?


MrMissile wrote:
The repetetive complaints and bashing of someone who does not even play [WoW] anymore


I warned him...


~~ You warned him? And now you let me have it by... comparing one remark about WoW to your countless and utterly repetitive posts in where you trash SE and the entire FF franchise?

You're making me laugh. ****... maybe

FilthMcNasty wrote:

All of us. Once again, at your expense Smiley: lol
#85 Aug 19 2012 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Because World of Warcraft did not lauch with 15 Dungeons across levels 1-50 nor did it contain around 2k quest's...


Now I'm not saying that FFXIV had a good launch by any means, but I'm sure there's a quality versus quantity argument to be made here somewhere...
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

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#86 Aug 19 2012 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Transmigration wrote:
reaper2516 wrote:
wow they made FFXIV to another WoW clone

good @#%^ing job


Why, because you can jump over a fence and have a useful mount?


Judging from the years of the very animated jump / no-jump debate...

Yes, I believe it's that simple. Smiley: laugh
#87 Aug 19 2012 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Because World of Warcraft did not lauch with 15 Dungeons across levels 1-50 nor did it contain around 2k quest's...


Now I'm not saying that FFXIV had a good launch by any means, but I'm sure there's a quality versus quantity argument to be made here somewhere...


It's over there, right next to the holy grail... Smiley: lol
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#88 Aug 19 2012 at 6:47 PM Rating: Default
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KaneKitty wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Because World of Warcraft did not lauch with 15 Dungeons across levels 1-50 nor did it contain around 2k quest's...


Now I'm not saying that FFXIV had a good launch by any means, but I'm sure there's a quality versus quantity argument to be made here somewhere...


On FFXIV Vs WOW ? Nope not one at all, on XI vs WOW ? Yes that argument can be made, and i would concede XI Quests >>> Wow Quests.
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#89 Aug 20 2012 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
What would be so wrong with taking the structure of most functional MMOs and fleshing out the uniqueness from something solid?

I think people are expecting something too extreme, especially from a game who's life is hanging in the balance. Lest we forget, the last time SE got unique we were presented with SP and the market wards; the former failing miserably and the latter practically mummified.

Baby steps people. Let them get XIV to a point where it's at least acceptable and then try to forge an identity.


Sorry to all those in the middle of bashing each other I'm jumping back some.

Filthy and I don't agree on much. However, I agree that innovation does not equal complexity. In most cases innovation is a simplification and streamlining of design and function. At the start of the 1.0 to 2.0 journey I fought harder against these changes. I liked many things about 1.0 and I thought given more emphasis and time from the dev team the game mechanics would have been more fun and improved. In the end Yoshi has surprised me. He took a game that I felt had promise and rebuilt it to be more consistent with a current standard for MMOs which I do not like and yet I am still playing and probably will be for awhile.

Edited, Aug 20th 2012 6:36pm by kainsilv
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#90 Aug 20 2012 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Name me one hardmode fight in WOW that does not requires Party skill, **** name me one non hardmode fight in ulduar that did not require party skill.

There are far more non hardmode, **** more dungeon boss fights that require hard party skill (At their level/and gear level of course) that there are skill required fights the entirety of FFXI lifespan.


My point was that party skill was required in FFXI from week 2. WoW leveling is predominantly a solo venture. The point that follows is that had FFXI made a very simple adjustment in the way that rewards were scaled, every fight in FFXI could have been a hardmode fight. I am not saying that FFXI was better or required more skill in this regard... I am saying that in the early days of the game when effective leveling strategies fell second-place to the natural inclination to tackle challenging prey, one could see how had FFXI capitalized on a simple tweak in the XP algorithm, the game would have been much better-- not only than it is, but better than any game currently on the market. Assuming, of course, that it wasn't copied.

This is all very basic game psychology that any qualified motivational psychologist could point out, not my own radical interpretation of oddball game design theory.

@Viertel; easy on the nerd rage. I can't be bothered to care about what you think if you come across like a total tool, which you did. So, not only tl;dr, but "too rude, ignorant, sad, and annoying... didn't read."

Maybe if you want to try disagreeing with me a bit more respectfully, troll can has cookie.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#91 Aug 20 2012 at 11:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:

This is all very basic game psychology that any qualified motivational psychologist could point out, not my own radical interpretation of oddball game design theory.


Geez, it would be beneficial for said "game psychologists" to take some lessons in basic game design first...

In practice your idea is as sturdy as the titanic. When the best effort/reward ratio is set so high in the "difficulty" scale (as in "what's your gear like/what's your job?") the community (obviously looking for the best effort/reward ratio like they always do) will turn into **** immediately.

You make massive changes to the overall balance of the game's design and assume there will not be any unintended effects to the way the players behave (aside from the positive effects, since there obviously can be no negative effects). Great gaem psychoelogistz you got there.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#92 Aug 21 2012 at 12:17 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
WoW leveling is predominantly a solo venture.

In WoW I started running RFC around level 10. In XI I started looking for groups in the dunes at the same level. Whether or not you grouped up for leveling was your own choice.

I kinda see your point though. Had XI beaten WoW to the punch on efficient and effective leveling, we might be here wondering what game would be the next 'XI killer' instead...

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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#93 Aug 21 2012 at 12:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi, stop using your second rate understanding of psychology to spice up your opinions.
The mechanisms you refer to may work like this in the vacuum of open space, but not in a
setting where A is connected to B, B to C, and C to A. Social psychology is not as easy as
pictured in an undergraduate textbook; neither are game design and community dynamics.
#94 Aug 21 2012 at 12:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I kinda see your point though. Had XI beaten WoW to the punch on efficient and effective leveling, we might be here wondering what game would be the next 'XI killer' instead...


Unlikely. The whole cutesy no blood anime friendship approach of FFXI, as much as I personally liked it, would possibly not have caught the attention of the general dwarves-elves-and-barbarians MMO audience in the west. And there wasn't even a trace of *** in it. Blasphemy.
#95 Aug 21 2012 at 12:46 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
I kinda see your point though. Had XI beaten WoW to the punch on efficient and effective leveling, we might be here wondering what game would be the next 'XI killer' instead...


Unlikely. The whole cutesy no blood anime friendship approach of FFXI, as much as I personally liked it, would possibly not have caught the attention of the general dwarves-elves-and-barbarians MMO audience in the west. And there wasn't even a trace of *** in it. Blasphemy.


Arguable at least.

Have to disagree on the no trace of *** thing either. Booty shakin mithra walk, suggestive poses and panty shots should count for something Smiley: nod
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#96 Aug 21 2012 at 1:14 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Have to disagree on the no trace of *** thing either. Booty shakin mithra walk, suggestive poses and panty shots should count for something

Ha! Got me. I forgot about the Mithra character creation loop. Rawrrrr!
But I guess you understand what I mean: WoW just perfectly fit the
"general western taste", presumed such a thing exists. Orks, many
RL-references, Dwarves, booby women. Beer. Sportscars. Arguably
more so than FFXI, although of course you may find traces of all the
things named above in there, too.

FF has many fans in the west, but there, it is overshadowed by a lot of
beardy competition. For some, in the west, it is a bit too "pansy".
#97 Aug 21 2012 at 2:48 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Have to disagree on the no trace of *** thing either. Booty shakin mithra walk, suggestive poses and panty shots should count for something

Ha! Got me. I forgot about the Mithra character creation loop. Rawrrrr!
But I guess you understand what I mean: WoW just perfectly fit the
"general western taste", presumed such a thing exists. Orks, many
RL-references, Dwarves, booby women. Beer. Sportscars. Arguably
more so than FFXI, although of course you may find traces of all the
things named above in there, too.

FF has many fans in the west, but there, it is overshadowed by a lot of
beardy competition. For some, in the west, it is a bit too "pansy".


Cid is about as 'man's man' as it gets. About the only thing that would make him more western is a 20 gallon hat and a belt buckle bigger than his head Smiley: lol
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#98 Aug 21 2012 at 3:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Cid Highwind does not have breast hair. I just looked up the first three results for "Cid Highwind Nude" on google images.
For real. Give it a shot. ;)
And if you're talking about our Cid pansy in FFXIV - that's just barbie's testosterone experiement gone horribly wrong.
#99 Aug 21 2012 at 4:21 AM Rating: Good
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We're talking about FFXI, yea? Cid the head engineer in Bastok. This guy looks like he embodies all of the qualities you attach, stereotypically but quite correctly, to westerners.

Take the picture of this guy and turn his blue apron into a pair of overalls. You could superimpose the image into a fishing boat, into a crowd at a nascar rally or any of the other hee-haw events you know we all like here in the states and people would have a hard time trying to spot it. I don't think people would really notice the lack of chest hair as much as how ******* scary it is when this dude opens his mouth to talk Smiley: grin
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#100 Aug 21 2012 at 6:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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When I look at all the gameplay and the only complaints that I see on the boards is "OMG Jumping I hate Jumping," "Eww 2D Grass!?" and "That menu looks like Tera" I am filled with confidence in the quality of 2.0.


But seriously, stop complaining about jumping, unless you speak German or Japanese. They weren't mindlessly jumping, Yoshi-P was hyping the crowd about new features and showing them off.


And the menu looks flipping amazing. Did you see how it didn't take 3 seconds to access? That's all the matters. Drag and drop items and abilities to the hot bar, EASY customization, and a sleak look that goes with the soon-to-be magitek future.

About Sliding during weapon skills....

If you aren't a current player, this may looks like a negative to you, so I'll explain. Currently the HARDEST part of big fights is Animation lock. Fighting Ifrit, if you ws at the wrong time, you are locked in position and will die to an eruption.

Maybe they will make it look better (probably) but right now, I don't care.

Function >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Form
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#101 Aug 21 2012 at 10:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I don't think people would really notice the lack of chest hair as much as how @#%^ing scary it is when this dude opens his mouth to talk Smiley: grin


Okay, wow, yeah. I'm glad somebody else said it. Cid in XI had a damned creepy mouth.

It was creepy to the point that I began to seriously consider that SE was foreshadowing the appearance of the cavernous maws with him. In fact, the only major difference between Cid's mouth and a cavernous maw was that, with a cavernous maw, you're thrown back out somewhere else in space-time; once you stare into the depths of Cid, though, you never come out. You're lost forever, wandering through the blackness and the bleak fogs, your only comfort the incessant grinding of teeth, like the noise of Satan himself in the climax of Inferno... o_o
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
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