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#52 Sep 07 2012 at 7:44 AM Rating: Default
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Xoie wrote:
Think about it. I spent $90 on a pre-ordered CE. If you weren't in the States, you paid at least that much if not much more (they were like $120-130 in Australia?).


It's as though SE trying their hardest to ignore and not win the hearts back of their original customer base from the initial release.
#53 Sep 07 2012 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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^ How do you mean?

Legacy is a reward to people who played the game during it's low point. It's for people who helped reduce the losses the game took by keeping the servers on. It was also a bit of a shameless attempt to get original customers to return for a bit and try out the changes.

You had every opportunity, and you missed it. It would cost you $30 to get legacy. I bought the CE as well, and paid for over 7 months. Do you hear me complaining about someone buying their copy for $11 on amazon and then $30 and getting legacy?


You still get to play 2.0 for FREE. No need to buy a new client, and you will receive another 30-Days free. What else do you need, as a player who bought a copy of a game you didn't like and then stopped playing it?

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I'm just pointing this out because the idea that Legacy players have all contributed more than anyone else is demonstrably false, and it's ultimately meaningless if you just want to chase people out of the game (which is starving for players) with it.


A few points on this. The majority of Legacy players, and the main purpose of Legacy, is for the die-hard 14 players that are now and have been playing the game. I know MANY people who have never stopped. In addition to financially, they've also provided this paid testing ground for the devs. I'm sure you aren't aware of how many drastic changes the player-base has gone through, but here are some examples of mechanics that will be greatly imporved thanks to legacy players:

1) Stats on gear will be visible, and simpler, with a greater effect on performance and less disparity between Stat Alottment points and Melded Stats.

2) All combat system upgrades. We were the test team for auto-attack and ability changes, and the faster pace of combat.

3) Speed Runs. They will be gone, and good riddance. You're welcome for this. Future content will not be timed and drops will not be determined by boring "sprint through all the enemies in the dungeon" tactics.

4) Improvements to open-world battle systems (I.E. Hamlet Defense) with an increase in the number of players and enemies that can be displayed on screen. Hamlet was supposed to be open-world like Campaign in FFXI, but they found that they needed to instance this for it to work, which led them to fix these limitations.

5) Job improvements and lessening the disparity between magic and melee classes. This is the TP changes that will have melee classes starting with full TP like mages to speed up battle and close the gap between blms and melee dmg.


I could go on but tl;dr.

Legacy players provide more than money. I'm not saying we're better, thats f*cking silly, but so is your original statement.

Edited, Sep 7th 2012 11:10am by Louiscool
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#54 Sep 07 2012 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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I guess I am one of those people that 'scammed the system' to get legacy... My friend let me know about it and told me to come try the game again (since I gave up in the Alpha/Beta phase when nothing was being fixed despite all the complaints). I admit that if there wasn't a Legacy campaign, I likely wouldn't have bothered with it... but since there was, I am now a happily paying customer. The game is light years beyond what it was when I played it, and it looks like it will be even better with 2.0.

I fully agree with the poster that mentioned that this was a draw for returning players, as well as to bring in some new people and some much needed money to the game. As far as I am concerned, the more 'scammers' that start playing, the more likely this game is to succeed... and quite frankly, I am enjoying it and hoping to continue enjoying it for a while.
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#55 Sep 07 2012 at 9:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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I didn't subscribe past February of this year.

That said, even if I had, a mount wouldn't be what would have kept me playing or looking forward to 2.0 next year. Too many people here putting too much importance on a mount; nevermind the fact that even if it were some sort of symbol of status or achievement, the only thing it proves is that you were suckered into paying for a game that wasn't worth it for several months.

In hindsight it probably would have been a good deal if you planned on subbing longer than however many months it would have taken you to make your money back, but the promise and potential for this game weren't realized until just recently, beyond the deadline for Legacy. I've said it before and I still have the same feeling on the matter. If SE is able to make 2.0 into something that I will subscribe to long enough that it would have been a better deal to secure legacy, I won't feel bad about losing out on a few bucks. Given the magnitude of changes required to take that leap, they deserve the extra money earned.

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#56 Sep 07 2012 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
^ How do you mean? <<Big Snip>>


I think you got me confused with a different poster. I never stated or refuted anything that you had in your reply. What I was stating was that SE wasn't actively trying to reach out and win the hearts of all the original customers at the NA release. The ones that trusted the Final Fantasy franchise's reputation and purchased the game. Not only did they purchase the game, but many went and upgraded their computers, video cards or bought new systems for this exciting new FF title. The sad low point of this game's history was seeing all our new friends and LS mates that decided to leave the game after a month or two. So yes I can understand where the poster was stating. It just looks like SE isn't raising their aim high enough with their campaign.

Edited, Sep 7th 2012 1:18pm by rubina
#57 Sep 10 2012 at 12:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Reach high enough and u can fall further down...

But lets go for the STARS !!!! Let the gaming begin... Gah its boring to wait for 2.0 ... :P
#58 Sep 10 2012 at 12:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
A few points on this. The majority of Legacy players, and the main purpose of Legacy, is for the die-hard 14 players that are now and have been playing the game. I know MANY people who have never stopped. In addition to financially, they've also provided this paid testing ground for the devs. I'm sure you aren't aware of how many drastic changes the player-base has gone through, but here are some examples of mechanics that will be greatly imporved thanks to legacy players:

1) Stats on gear will be visible, and simpler, with a greater effect on performance and less disparity between Stat Alottment points and Melded Stats.

2) All combat system upgrades. We were the test team for auto-attack and ability changes, and the faster pace of combat.

3) Speed Runs. They will be gone, and good riddance. You're welcome for this. Future content will not be timed and drops will not be determined by boring "sprint through all the enemies in the dungeon" tactics.

4) Improvements to open-world battle systems (I.E. Hamlet Defense) with an increase in the number of players and enemies that can be displayed on screen. Hamlet was supposed to be open-world like Campaign in FFXI, but they found that they needed to instance this for it to work, which led them to fix these limitations.

5) Job improvements and lessening the disparity between magic and melee classes. This is the TP changes that will have melee classes starting with full TP like mages to speed up battle and close the gap between blms and melee dmg.


I could go on but tl;dr.

Legacy players provide more than money. I'm not saying we're better, thats f*cking silly, but so is your original statement.


Since you're playing on the wrong engine, I don't think the game play tweaks will have any impact on 2.0. The changes they made were to make the game bearable on the throwaway 1.0 and nothing more.

Legacy is meant as a fundraiser for a game that's extremely hard to sell given the 49 / 100 standing FFXIV is known for. That's why a mere $24 gets you presents and a lifetime discount. Legacy players aren't developers or testers they're just paying customers like anyone else. They don't deserve a round of applause any more than anyone who has dumped money into this game and they should recall that we need new players. So forget the "I saved FFXIV" routine when its everyone involved with FFXIV who saved FFXIV.
#59 Sep 10 2012 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Since you're playing on the wrong engine, I don't think the game play tweaks will have any impact on 2.0. The changes they made were to make the game bearable on the throwaway 1.0 and nothing more.


Sounds like someone with very little knowledge in game design.

Engine != Game

It's a base, a foundation. You think they developed an entirely new game in 1 year? That's would be amazing. So, what you're saying is that none of the improvements, tweaks, systems, gear, primals, fights, content, character models, and enhancements, none of it will be used for 2.0?

Every. single. thing. that I just mentioned has nothing to do with the engine. The engine allows for many other things, yes. A mail sytem, AH, further graphical optimization for lesser computers, etc.

So save your "Boo Hoos," because, as you said, it's a mere $24. Not a very good fundraiser for a game with less than 250k active subs, is it?

Edited, Sep 10th 2012 3:20pm by Louiscool
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#60 Sep 10 2012 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:

Every. single. thing. that I just mentioned has nothing to do with the engine. The engine allows for many other things, yes. A mail sytem, AH, further graphical optimization for lesser computers, etc.


That's like saying how well the house is built has nothing to with the sand it's built on. A wise man once said of game engines:

Louiscool wrote:
It's a base, a foundation.


You should listen to that guy.
#61 Sep 10 2012 at 6:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
Quote:
Since you're playing on the wrong engine, I don't think the game play tweaks will have any impact on 2.0. The changes they made were to make the game bearable on the throwaway 1.0 and nothing more.


Sounds like someone with very little knowledge in game design.

Engine != Game


I beg to differ. The game is two years old, yet the current highest tier GPUs can't display more than a few dozen character models. SE is in the position to claim that the PS3 version was withheld until 2.0 improvements, but everyone knows **** well they couldn't have released 1.0 on a PS3 with the current engine.

The engine is the vehicle that delivers your experience and has much more to do with how a game plays than you suggest here. The difference between a horribly optimized engine and a great one(which we hope will be the difference between 1.0 and 2.0) is like the difference between listening to Distant Worlds on an old walkman vs listening to it live in a grand concert hall.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#62 Sep 10 2012 at 6:52 PM Rating: Decent
FilthMcNasty wrote:
The difference between a horribly optimized engine and a great one(which we hope will be the difference between 1.0 and 2.0) is like the difference between listening to Distant Worlds on an old walkman vs listening to it live in a grand concert hall.


I did not see that comparison coming. I lol'd a bit. Nice one sir.
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#63 Sep 11 2012 at 6:24 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Louiscool wrote:
Quote:
Since you're playing on the wrong engine, I don't think the game play tweaks will have any impact on 2.0. The changes they made were to make the game bearable on the throwaway 1.0 and nothing more.


Sounds like someone with very little knowledge in game design.

Engine != Game


I beg to differ. The game is two years old, yet the current highest tier GPUs can't display more than a few dozen character models. SE is in the position to claim that the PS3 version was withheld until 2.0 improvements, but everyone knows **** well they couldn't have released 1.0 on a PS3 with the current engine.

The engine is the vehicle that delivers your experience and has much more to do with how a game plays than you suggest here. The difference between a horribly optimized engine and a great one(which we hope will be the difference between 1.0 and 2.0) is like the difference between listening to Distant Worlds on an old walkman vs listening to it live in a grand concert hall.


I over-simplified it to be sure. But I also never implied that legacy players are some superior beings either. We are a testing ground for mechanics though. Yoshi-P asked for player feedback about what they like, what they don't about changes made, and we see those changes being implemented in 2.0 (Faster combat, for one)
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#64 Sep 11 2012 at 10:02 AM Rating: Default
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Me and my brother each payed 80$ for the CE edition in 2010. Stuck with it through tick and thin beta through to present day. And will more then likely stick with it for the next few years. That on top of sticking with XI launch to start of 2012, even tough last log in was 2009 end of year. Make's it that i have been paying SE a constant subscription coming on 13 years (~2340(x2) in sub's alone). And enough time invested in the XI and XIV to walk to mars. And that is just us 2, i know of many people in that same boat.

So while i know all to well that fresh blood is needed for XIV to rise from the mud. It would simply be improper if SE put every one in the same bracket. There is no standing point from were it would seem proper for people who have been here from the start, and are still here, and will still be here in the future. To be grouped with people who are here today, gone tomorrow.

The Legacy idea is a way of thanking people, who invested in a product. As such I have no remorse for people who missed the train, and even less for people who found means of exploiting the system. Every business loves "new" customer's, but only a few are blind enough not flatter the old one's.
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#65 Sep 11 2012 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Every business loves "new" customer's, but only a few are blind enough not flatter the old one's.


You left out the customers that left the game. But how is SE going to win back all the dissatisfied customers? A mere 30-day open access is not going to be enough. Let's have a sanity check and look at the reviews left by Amazon customers who purchased the game and left.

  • This game majorly stinks! Waste of our family's $200 for 4 games., November 7, 2010
  • I regret spending money on this game!, October 3, 2010
  • Not sure if this technically qualifies as a game, October 9, 2010
  • An exercise in frustration, October 2, 2010
  • Do NOT waste your money on this game its not worth the headache., October 6, 2010
  • Waste of time and money, October 5, 2010
  • Horrible, bad, abysmal...need I say more?, October 5, 2010
  • Complete waste of money. Worst FF game ever., October 6, 2010
  • Buy ANYTHING else but this game - from a sad FF fan...., January 15, 2011
  • Even though it's currently free to play it's still not worth the time, March 4, 2011
  • I'm amazed that the game was released, October 5, 2010
  • Biggest let down in a while, thank you., July 19, 2011
  • 3 months later still waiting for fun, December 22, 2010
  • Total Frustration for $50, October 13, 2010
  • Quite possibly the worst MMO ever, March 4, 2012
  • Free to play for a reason, July 27, 2011
  • Absolutely horrible - don't waste your money., November 28, 2010

  • This is the public image that SE needs to address and overcome in order for 2.0 to succeed. Mission accomplished with their Legacy program. So what is SE's next steps with winning the ex-customers back? How are they going to entice back all the ex-customers that left and felt like they gotten burned so they left negative reviews?

    From what I've seen with the latest developer presentations, the 2.0 looks very exciting. I'm a long time Final Fantasy fan and I really REALLY want to see 2.0 be successful. I'm interested and concerned in how SE is going to address the bad press and hard feelings of past customers.
    #66 Sep 11 2012 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
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    Again, Legacy is not about scorning people who originally bought the game, nor about winning those players back in some scam.

    You left in 30 days. 30 days, and you quit, just like any other MMO. Do you see me with pitchforks raised because I bought Rift, SWTOR, WOW, Aion, LTOR:Online, and City of Heroes, and decided I didn't like the game?

    No. I knew about the risk of playing a new MMO. I've returned to WoW, SWTOR and Rift on occasion to see how the game was and again decided it wasn't for me, on free weekends or what-have-you.

    So SE is you and all others a free month. You can decide then if you want to return, and if not, do what every person has the right to do, and not play it. But you want more you say? SE OWES you something, just because more people disliked this game than other mmos?

    Get off your self-entitled horse.

    Edited, Sep 11th 2012 2:00pm by Louiscool
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    #67 Sep 11 2012 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
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    Louiscool wrote:
    We are a testing ground for mechanics though. Yoshi-P asked for player feedback about what they like, what they don't about changes made, and we see those changes being implemented in 2.0 (Faster combat, for one)


    The thing is, what's fun on 1.0 isn't going to be the same as 2.0.

    1.0 has to deal with poor netcode that doesn't update what's actually happening around you without a constant, perceptible lag. The UI is not customizable, has limited information, and isn't suited for PCs. The graphics engine isn't capable of displaying a significant number of characters around you, and if you come across too many characters and NPCs, they can remain invisible for almost a minute even if they're standing next to you.

    So, to use one of your examples, a large scale battle would be more fun instanced because the lag and graphical limitations of 1.0 prevent it from being enjoyable otherwise.

    But in 2.0, with good netcode that's responsive and smooths out lag, a UI that customizable, full of displayable information, and works with drag-and-drop, and a graphics engine that can quickly render a crowd... that same large scale battle would probably be a lot more fun in the spontaneous, open world because the engine can handle it.

    In other words, tweaking 1.0 to be more fun (what your feedback was based on) has no bearing on what will be fun on the more capable 2.0 engine. At best you could ascertain the enjoyability of certain concepts in 1.0 like the class-job relationship that will move on to 2.0, but game play really can't be judged until you experience it on the new engine.
    #68 Sep 11 2012 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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    rubina wrote:
    TwiddleDee wrote:
    Every business loves "new" customer's, but only a few are blind enough not flatter the old one's.


    You left out the customers that left the game. But how is SE going to win back all the dissatisfied customers? A mere 30-day open access is not going to be enough. Let's have a sanity check and look at the reviews left by Amazon customers who purchased the game and left.

  • This game majorly stinks! Waste of our family's $200 for 4 games., November 7, 2010
  • I regret spending money on this game!, October 3, 2010
  • Not sure if this technically qualifies as a game, October 9, 2010
  • An exercise in frustration, October 2, 2010
  • Do NOT waste your money on this game its not worth the headache., October 6, 2010
  • Waste of time and money, October 5, 2010
  • Horrible, bad, abysmal...need I say more?, October 5, 2010
  • Complete waste of money. Worst FF game ever., October 6, 2010
  • Buy ANYTHING else but this game - from a sad FF fan...., January 15, 2011
  • Even though it's currently free to play it's still not worth the time, March 4, 2011
  • I'm amazed that the game was released, October 5, 2010
  • Biggest let down in a while, thank you., July 19, 2011
  • 3 months later still waiting for fun, December 22, 2010
  • Total Frustration for $50, October 13, 2010
  • Quite possibly the worst MMO ever, March 4, 2012
  • Free to play for a reason, July 27, 2011
  • Absolutely horrible - don't waste your money., November 28, 2010

  • This is the public image that SE needs to address and overcome in order for 2.0 to succeed. Mission accomplished with their Legacy program. So what is SE's next steps with winning the ex-customers back? How are they going to entice back all the ex-customers that left and felt like they gotten burned so they left negative reviews?

    From what I've seen with the latest developer presentations, the 2.0 looks very exciting. I'm a long time Final Fantasy fan and I really REALLY want to see 2.0 be successful. I'm interested and concerned in how SE is going to address the bad press and hard feelings of past customers.



    I do agree with you even if only partially.. SE does need to "entice" the ex-customer's, and i do believe they partially addressed that with announcing (though i cant find the reference), that everyone who made a XIV 1.0 account would get the software for 2.0 for free. Past that it's the player's decision, if they want to come back or not. As well the beta testing for 2.0 will be another opportunity to show what they have in store.

    What you are saying is that SE need's to just short of pay "you" to play 2.0, to get customer's back. Well that will not happen, it will be something along the lines of; people will stay, sign up, return do to the impression SE is making, or leave, not return if they are not impressed. Talking of the relaunch. One month after who can tell..

    As for your list of reviews, i started from beta, early launch, up to today... and i can honestly tell you they are exaggerations i have played games much worse, so much so that 14 looks godly in comparison. Saying this is bad with out a bench mark, does not make a solid argument.
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    #69 Sep 11 2012 at 12:36 PM Rating: Default
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    Xoie wrote:
    Louiscool wrote:
    We are a testing ground for mechanics though. Yoshi-P asked for player feedback about what they like, what they don't about changes made, and we see those changes being implemented in 2.0 (Faster combat, for one)


    The thing is, what's fun on 1.0 isn't going to be the same as 2.0.


    Really? Fun != Fun? Just think on your argument for a second. What's fun, won't be fun. I think you're going to be sorely disappointed with 2.0.
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    #70 Sep 11 2012 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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    Louiscool wrote:
    Again, Legacy is not about scorning people who originally bought the game, nor about winning those players back in some scam.
    Edited, Sep 11th 2012 2:00pm by Louiscool


    I wasn't even discussing this past legacy program so let's look beyond that shall we? What I want to know is how SE will promote their revised game title in the light of all the bad press that was associated with their initial launch? There was a lot of harsh opinions and bad press that they'll need to overcome.
    #71 Sep 11 2012 at 1:52 PM Rating: Default
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    rubina wrote:
    Louiscool wrote:
    Again, Legacy is not about scorning people who originally bought the game, nor about winning those players back in some scam.
    Edited, Sep 11th 2012 2:00pm by Louiscool


    I wasn't even discussing this past legacy program so let's look beyond that shall we? What I want to know is how SE will promote their revised game title in the light of all the bad press that was associated with their initial launch? There was a lot of harsh opinions and bad press that they'll need to overcome.


    Absolutely. I keep expecting this big push they speak of, and these game conventions come and go with just a bit of info. I would say "we'll see at TGS," but I just expect another slow trickle.
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    #72 Sep 11 2012 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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    Louiscool wrote:
    Really? Fun != Fun? Just think on your argument for a second. What's fun, won't be fun. I think you're going to be sorely disappointed with 2.0.


    You got me good, Louis. Fun != fun is totally what I was saying. How could I ever hope to match wits against your infallible logic?

    Now I'm off to play hopscotch on the freeway because what's fun on the sidewalk must be fun no matter where you are.

    Edited, Sep 11th 2012 11:48pm by Xoie
    #73 Sep 11 2012 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
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    Xoie wrote:
    Louiscool wrote:
    Really? Fun != Fun? Just think on your argument for a second. What's fun, won't be fun. I think you're going to be sorely disappointed with 2.0.


    You got me good, Louis. Fun != fun is totally what was saying. How could I ever hope to match wits against your infallible logic?

    Now I'm off to play hopscotch on the freeway because what's fun on the sidewalk must be fun no matter where you are.

    Edited, Sep 11th 2012 4:37pm by Xoie


    I submit that the added danger of getting hit by a car would GREATLY improve the fun-factor of hopscotch.

    You ignore the majority of my points and argue only one.

    This is for you

    I'm too busy now, but I'll make you a full list later detailing every change you can "thank" all us fantastic and selfless legacy players when you come back for 2.0, play for 2 weeks, and then bandwagon over to the next MMO (I'm guessing The Elder Scrolls Online).
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