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Interested in game, but have fundamental gameplay questionFollow

#1 Sep 02 2012 at 10:55 PM Rating: Good
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It's been years since I've played FFXI and I really miss the CoP era. No game since has been quite like the CoP expansion was for me. I'm missing it pretty hard and feel FF calling me back... however I have one very important fundamental question about FFXIV gameplay.

If I were to buy the game and start playing, would I spend the majority of my time leveling solo or in groups? The answer is very important, I refuse to play an MMO that forces me to solo, and even worse, run hundreds of solo chores to level up... which is pretty much every game made since EQ/FFXI.

Ok, I lied... I have a lot of questions. If grouping, what is the average size of PTs... would we camp or roam... would we quest or grind... do mages rest to regen mana... is there a dedicated healer class... is there a "dedicated solo class" like bst?

I am mostly interested in regards to the 2.0 update, but hearing how things are now would be fine too.
#2 Sep 02 2012 at 11:02 PM Rating: Good
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Does the game force solo play? No.

Will you be playing mostly solo? Yes.

The average party size is a few people. Around 2-5 works just fine. You'd be almost exclusively grinding "Levequests" which are like generic WoW quests except they all get doled out at the same floating crystal. In that sense you'd be camping. Mages don't really need to rest. White Mage is the "dedicated healer" but there's not much of a need for a dedicated healer except in a small handful of boss fights. Everybody can solo with ease.

People will say that you can make groups and that you can play in a party but, let's be honest, there's not really much of a reason to do so. It's a matter of efficiency, sadly, and more effort does not generally equate to more reward in this system. One could say that it's fundamentally flawed; that it's an insult to the genre; but it seems as though the mass market would have it no other way. I can't stand it, either. But with games such as they are today, I guess I should just be happy that it's not pay-to-win, right? :\

Edited, Sep 3rd 2012 1:07am by KaneKitty
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#3 Sep 03 2012 at 6:34 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think it's the mass market, it's SE being idiotic. I don't think anyone prefers to do stuff solo than play with others.

I still don't get how leves are meant to be fun. It's like grinding on mobs, except with most of the actual fighting replaced by running. They don't deserve being compared to quests - in other games spawning a few mobs in a random place in a field wouldn't pass for a quest and everyone would call the developers out on it. It's like SE was trying to make a quest based MMO without the effort of making real quests. I hope the community will speak out about them a bit, if they don't change in 2.0...
#4 Sep 03 2012 at 6:34 AM Rating: Decent
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xXMalevolenceXx wrote:
The answer is very important, I refuse to play an MMO that forces me to solo, and even worse, run hundreds of solo chores to level up... which is pretty much every game made since EQ/FFXI.


I get the feeling that you're suggesting that games that allow efficient solo play are 'forcing' that playstyle. None of the MMOs I have played since EQ or XI force you to solo. It may have been just as efficient or even more so to solo at some stages, but I don't recall anything save for the odd chain quest that your buddy couldn't join because of prerequisites(race, class, faction, ect.) or something like Maat fight(solo onry) that 'forced' solo play.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#5 Sep 03 2012 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
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I suggest waiting until 2.0 drops and then start looking into the game. If you start playing now, you'll just be disappointed with what you see. To really give the game a chance with what you are expecting, wait a couple more months and check out 2.0. There will be servers dedicated to brand new never played before characters and you can join with them and learn the ropes. The will be much more enjoyable for you than what you'd find currently.
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#6 Sep 03 2012 at 6:51 AM Rating: Good
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@Filth

I think he just meant what you mentioned about it being more efficient or at least as efficient to solo. More often than not that means most people will not bother with the effort it takes to party (aside from with friends) which more or less forces solo upon the few who would do it regardless of efficiency.

Personally I think there should be a balance where solo is completely viable, but partying is slightly more efficient. That way the people who want to solo can do so whilst at the same time people get an extra incentive to party.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2012 8:53am by Belcrono
#7 Sep 03 2012 at 7:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Belcrono wrote:
@Filth

I think he just meant what you mentioned about it being more efficient or at least as efficient to solo. More often than not that means most people will not bother with the effort it takes to party (aside from with friends) which more or less forces solo upon the few who would do it regardless of efficiency.

Effort? I'm not certain I follow...

Even if people can't be bothered to send a simple message, there are any number of grouping tools available these days that facilitate the grouping process. ****, you don't even need to ask people directly because you can send a global message. All it takes to form a group in most cases these days is the capacity to know what it is you want to do and click the appropriate check box.

Belcrono wrote:
Personally I think there should be a balance where solo is completely viable, but partying is slightly more efficient. That way the people who want to solo can do so whilst at the same time people get an extra incentive to party.

That's how it works in most games I've played. XI is actually the only exception I can think to this rule.




____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#8 Sep 03 2012 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
xXMalevolenceXx wrote:
The answer is very important, I refuse to play an MMO that forces me to solo, and even worse, run hundreds of solo chores to level up... which is pretty much every game made since EQ/FFXI.


I get the feeling that you're suggesting that games that allow efficient solo play are 'forcing' that playstyle. None of the MMOs I have played since EQ or XI force you to solo. It may have been just as efficient or even more so to solo at some stages, but I don't recall anything save for the odd chain quest that your buddy couldn't join because of prerequisites(race, class, faction, ect.) or something like Maat fight(solo onry) that 'forced' solo play.


Well if everyone else is soloing, the chances of me getting PTs is pretty small. And I wouldn't try anyway if soloing was easier/faster. Actually, I just wouldn't play.

I'm disappointed to hear leveling up is mainly solo. I watched some youtube gameplay videos and they were all solo players doing leves as well... except for some level 49 players in xp grind PT. I'm going to hold off and check back a couple months after 2.0 is live. Thanks for your responses and time.
#9 Sep 03 2012 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Belcrono wrote:
@Filth

I think he just meant what you mentioned about it being more efficient or at least as efficient to solo. More often than not that means most people will not bother with the effort it takes to party (aside from with friends) which more or less forces solo upon the few who would do it regardless of efficiency.

Effort? I'm not certain I follow...

Even if people can't be bothered to send a simple message, there are any number of grouping tools available these days that facilitate the grouping process. ****, you don't even need to ask people directly because you can send a global message. All it takes to form a group in most cases these days is the capacity to know what it is you want to do and click the appropriate check box.

Belcrono wrote:
Personally I think there should be a balance where solo is completely viable, but partying is slightly more efficient. That way the people who want to solo can do so whilst at the same time people get an extra incentive to party.

That's how it works in most games I've played. XI is actually the only exception I can think to this rule.






When it comes to effort of forming and making a group work well I guess it depends on what games and while you are right that it becomes easier and easier it still requires more work than not grouping at all, which is often enough for people to skip partying in my experince (Outside of forming groups for quests/dungeons that actually requires more than 1 person I have not seen a lot of grouping for exp outside of... XI?).

About exp being slightly faster in groups, I guess you could be right. The way I have experienced it in WoW, SWTOR and Tera however(to mention a few) the fastest way really seemed to just exp solo (with the exception that in a group we could do questst that required more people immidietly, without having to spend time looking for people to do it with).
#10 Sep 03 2012 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
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xXMalevolenceXx wrote:
Well if everyone else is soloing, the chances of me getting PTs is pretty small. And I wouldn't try anyway if soloing was easier/faster.


You honestly wouldn't try grouping if soloing was faster or easier? Don't get me wrong because I've taken my fair share of shortcuts, but I honestly believe I'd rather sacrifice time for enjoyment. Gaming isn't productive, but it seems like much less of a waste of time if it's at least entertaining.

Waiting until 2.0 is probably your best bet anyway though. There has been talk of large scale instanced content, the new story may have more of a group focus and Limit Break could possibly add more depth and dynamics to group play. That's what I'm hoping for anyway...
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#11 Sep 03 2012 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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Belcrono wrote:
it still requires more work than not grouping at all

I could see how you might call it effort or work in the earlier days of XI; finding a group of 6, all within 1 level difference, filling specific roles(tank, DD, healer, support, puller), all possessing whatever key item might be needed to travel to camp, praying that the camp you had chosen wasn't occupied by the time you arrived, praying that the person who was 1 level higher than everyone else had a big tnl so they didn't wreck exp immediately, wondering where the bard that just popped was 5 minutes ago before your paladin disbanded, ect ect ect. Forming a group used to be way more stressful and annoying than it should have been.

Using that to draw the comparison, nothing from any modern MMO could be called work or effort.


____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#12 Sep 03 2012 at 11:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
the earlier days of XI; finding a group of 6, all within 1 level difference, filling specific roles(tank, DD, healer, support, puller), all possessing whatever key item might be needed to travel to camp, praying that the camp you had chosen wasn't occupied by the time you arrived, praying that the person who was 1 level higher than everyone else had a big tnl so they didn't wreck exp immediately, wondering where the bard that just popped was 5 minutes ago before your paladin disbanded, ect ect ect. Forming a group used to be way more stressful and annoying than it should have been.


Yeah, but, when it worked... Smiley: lol


Edited, Sep 3rd 2012 1:20pm by KaneKitty
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#13 Sep 03 2012 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Really, the main reason you'd be leveling solo is because there simply aren't enough people playing that are trying to level lower level jobs. You'd end up shouting in town for days before you get anywhere near to making a party to go and lvl grind. At this point, everyone has atleast 1 lvl 50 job and LS's help it's member PL just to get it over with. No, PLing is not broken. People will say it is, but it's working just how the dev team had wanted it to work. It used to be easier to PL, but there were enough people who complained that they made it a little harder.
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#14 Sep 03 2012 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Belcrono wrote:
it still requires more work than not grouping at all

I could see how you might call it effort or work in the earlier days of XI; finding a group of 6, all within 1 level difference, filling specific roles(tank, DD, healer, support, puller), all possessing whatever key item might be needed to travel to camp, praying that the camp you had chosen wasn't occupied by the time you arrived, praying that the person who was 1 level higher than everyone else had a big tnl so they didn't wreck exp immediately, wondering where the bard that just popped was 5 minutes ago before your paladin disbanded, ect ect ect. Forming a group used to be way more stressful and annoying than it should have been.

Using that to draw the comparison, nothing from any modern MMO could be called work or effort.




This post just made my blood pressure rise a few points. Oh, the wonderful, relaxing days of XI Smiley: oyvey
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#15 Sep 03 2012 at 3:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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swisa wrote:
everyone has atleast 1 lvl 50 job and LS's help it's member PL just to get it over with. No, PLing is not broken. People will say it is, but it's working


A good solution to the "problem" of low-level players is level-syncing, not power-leveling.

A vast chunk of the game should never be played in such a fashion as to "just get it over with." Get people to group up and tackle challenges together for mutual benefit; don't have a few people mostly away from their keyboards getting plowed through progress thanks to a level-capped acquaintance.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
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