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PVP - Do you want it to be a major feature?Follow

#1 Sep 09 2012 at 4:37 PM Rating: Decent
I saw a thread related to this on the official forums, but I can't post there and wanted to see what you guys thought. I personally don't mind if PvP becomes a big part of the game, but I have a few concerns.

1) I don't want to see the PvE content take a back seat to PvP... EVER. I played DC Universe for a while and got my fill of PvP there. I don't want to have to do PvP simply because there is more of it to do than PvE.

2) I really hope that they don't make PvP and PvE gear and content mixed. What I mean is, I don't want PvP gear to be among the loot drops of a PvE event, or the other way around. Maybe make PvP gear solely craftable / bought, not quested.

I guess my big fear is that PvP will at some point become required to succeed in PvE content. I wouldn't want to see people discouraged because they absolutely despise PvP and can't do certain things because of it.
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#2 Sep 09 2012 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Neither of those things will happen. Yoshi is an avid pvper, and thus understands how to keep pve seperate from pvp. My hope is he will choose one of the better methods for doing this (pvp gear cosmetic only so its not gear vs gear would be a step in the right direction).

As for pve taking a backseat to pvp, well that depends on how good the pvp content is and how much the playerbase actually wants pvp. Most legacy players i would wager have little interest.

Now it would be kind of funny if yoshi's pvp team made a great pvp game that players everywhere flocked to. No one would expect that.

Personally im not looking for much pvp in my final fantasy.
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#3 Sep 09 2012 at 8:18 PM Rating: Default
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of course I want it to be a major feature. pvp can only make the game more fun, it's not like there will be PK so no need to get your jimmies rustled.

what do you mean pvp gear getting mixed into your pve drops? i really doubt they would make top PvE gear only obtainable in PvP. ive never seen an mmo do that, even the worst ones. usually pvp gear mostly gives pvp benefits

Edited, Sep 9th 2012 10:21pm by Poubelle
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#4 Sep 09 2012 at 11:25 PM Rating: Good
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If they can learn from that PvP shouldn't be only team oriented, I'm ok with trying it out.
#5 Sep 10 2012 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Of course, yes. Look at PvP in FFXI. I played for 9-10 years and never participated in it, because it was such a devalued feature with no rewards.

There's no factions so there won't be ganking or griefing though, so no worries. But I want to be able to duel my friends and have massive battles as distractions. Things to do > no things to do.
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#6 Sep 10 2012 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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I believe he mentioned that PvP will not be forced and there will be designated seperate zones for it.

Regarding gear I hope it's like GW2 in that they are completely seperate. Actually it's kinda of refreshing playing both.

Each game has it's own pros/cons. One thing with GW2 is that your pvp/pve characters share the same model/name but levels/gear are completely different. PvP characters start off at level 80 with basic gear and you earn your gear in PvP.

They don't touch each other.

I kind of hope XIV will be like that in they keep it seperate; but even if they don't it will be nice to try the XvXvX castle raid he mentioned. He's not putting a maximum limit on participation so maybe the entire server will give it a try :)
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#7 Sep 10 2012 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
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My 2c. If PvP in ARR is along the lines of XI were you could do it if you wanted, and if you didn't in made absolutely no difference it would be best. Same for armor, in XI there was no PvP armor it was all general, however for those choosing to PvP they needed to be creative with the builds. That's my take on the issue in a nut shell. FF has not been known for dynamic PvP, but more as PvE with a compelling story(s). As for armor it's hard to imagine FF going the WoW path of T1 to T14 PvE and PvP armor's.

From all the talk that's the vibe am getting for ARR's PvP. Reference XI and will get something not all that different.
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#8 Sep 12 2012 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I would like to see a PVP system that offers some trophy rewards, and some rewards that were functional. But for the most part was achievement driven, and potentially large scale (though like most things MMO, it would be hit hard at first, then fall back to diehard players for that style).
#9 Sep 12 2012 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Twiddle, it needs to be more involving than FFXI, or no one will participate.

It doesn't have to impact pve, but if there are no rewards, then it would have to be amazingly fun, which I doubt any mmo could pull off without player rewards. ****, even FPS games have reward and leveling structures now.

You have to progress, even if it's only to get better at PvP, with pvp gear, or it is just wasted dev hours.
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#10 Sep 12 2012 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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I'd almost like to see PvP in XIV allow for exp gain to some extent (win or lose)... just something to motivate people to make use of it. I have never been much for PvP, but it would be fun now and again to have a grudge match agains my wife :P

I agree with Louiscool... it needs ot be way more involved than FFXI's PvP... I played PvP a total or 2 times (Brenner and whatever the first thing was) and I decided it wasn't worth the time to organize and participate in.
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#11 Sep 12 2012 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Actually, that's a great idea. Allow people to pvp, and award exp at the end, through an npc dialog, so you could change jobs and collect it.

This mechanic has been keeping people attending Ifrit runs just to level up their crafting class :D
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#12 Sep 12 2012 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
Twiddle, it needs to be more involving than FFXI, or no one will participate.

It doesn't have to impact pve, but if there are no rewards, then it would have to be amazingly fun, which I doubt any mmo could pull off without player rewards. ****, even FPS games have reward and leveling structures now.

You have to progress, even if it's only to get better at PvP, with pvp gear, or it is just wasted dev hours.


Armor wise:
I guess another alternative would be to have PvP armor, be just that. Armor which can only be used in PvP area's, with stats that would in some way be PvP oriented. And yet not directly enchant effectiveness against other players. Also this way you will not get people coming to an event dressed in PvP armor, using the excuse it's better then my PvE.

Past armor, how to make PvP more "involving" is beyond me. I can give you 1001 ways to make PvE more involving. PvP i don't know, none of the MMO's i have every played, baked it fully.. and it was always a half *** job, and one sided as ****. Technically after the point were you can't kill 2 even pray monster's but can solo 3 player's beating on you, it's a sign something isn't right.

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#13 Sep 12 2012 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
Grandlethal wrote:
I'd almost like to see PvP in XIV allow for exp gain to some extent (win or lose)... just something to motivate people to make use of it.


The only thing I would be afraid of here is people exploiting PvP for easy levels. Afraid isn't really the right word, but whats the point in having all these different ways to get exp when you can just dual box yourself in the battle arena to cap lvl? You could make the exp reward minimal, but then that defeats the purpose of making it a reward.
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#14 Sep 13 2012 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
Actually, that's a great idea. Allow people to pvp, and award exp at the end, through an npc dialog, so you could change jobs and collect it.

This mechanic has been keeping people attending Ifrit runs just to level up their crafting class :D



I had always found that funny to watch. I can get as much exp on 1-2 synths what people get in a single ifrit run. That has to be the most inefficient exploit ever (is it really an exploit, or does it just make people feel like they are actually getting something for nothing?).

#15 Sep 13 2012 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
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rfolkker wrote:

I had always found that funny to watch. I can get as much exp on 1-2 synths what people get in a single ifrit run. That has to be the most inefficient exploit ever (is it really an exploit, or does it just make people feel like they are actually getting something for nothing?).



Firstly not an exploit. Secondly yes you can get that exp in a few synths, but that's not the point. Point is it's incentive to go back and kill him again. Well that and the fact that you can materia his weapons so most fight him over and over any way.

So if PvP reward's are points for PvP armor (usable in PvP only), and some exp/gil. It's still not bad. Thing is, the hard part will be to make PvP appealing and involving enough so even people who don't PvP start to. That's the real trick i want to see SE to pull from the hat.
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#16 Sep 13 2012 at 9:41 AM Rating: Decent
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rfolkker wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Actually, that's a great idea. Allow people to pvp, and award exp at the end, through an npc dialog, so you could change jobs and collect it.

This mechanic has been keeping people attending Ifrit runs just to level up their crafting class :D



I had always found that funny to watch. I can get as much exp on 1-2 synths what people get in a single ifrit run. That has to be the most inefficient exploit ever (is it really an exploit, or does it just make people feel like they are actually getting something for nothing?).



It's not an exploit, it's just.. well we get exp for it and our battle class is max level. You can do it with any quests, and free exp is free exp.
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#17 Sep 14 2012 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry, misuse of the word exploit (I actually meant a different meaning other than bypassing intended purpose, but rather to gain a benefit from an available option, but that is neither here nor there).

I was more saying that the exp given in Ifrit always seemed to be enough for people to feel like they were getting something from it, when infact, from the normal mentality typically associated to an MMO this method of Exp gain is highly shunned (considering that the exp gained is dramatically less that what you would gain from doing other things).

It was more of a statement of shock and a little bit of happiness that people felt that the exp from ifrit (and don't get me wrong, the few avatar battles I have done I have put the exp on one non-combat class or another) is beneficial, I guess I am just used to people complaining about how things are either not enough, or too excessive in implementation.
#18 Sep 24 2012 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Hopefully they're looking to GW2 for a lot of their reboot ideas. And if they do, then the WvW system would be a great fit in FFXIV, while leaving nobody to complain about anything (except of course for class balance).
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#19 Sep 24 2012 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I seriously hope, that yoshida steeps away from PVP, until after 2.0 is released and on it's first update cycle, for when it comes to MMO'S SE is a novice at best, when it comes to implementing new ideas that they are not familiar with. What they could do, is since the game is PVE, and they do have an empire, they can have a similar thing to WvW setting ala Gw2 but with PVE, having the empire controlling one side of the map, and the players having to conquer different points in order to access different things along the way.

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#20 Sep 26 2012 at 12:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Hopefully they're looking to GW2 for a lot of their reboot ideas. And if they do, then the WvW system would be a great fit in FFXIV, while leaving nobody to complain about anything (except of course for class balance).


pretty much this. if yoshi really is a pvp guy, he knows and appreciates what gw2 brings to the table. The best reward for pvp imo is badass looking cosmetic (ie no stats) gear, so everyone in town knows how leet you are. And of course exp/gil. PvP should be a viable means to level.

They're going to need to figure out a good way to level the playing field gearwise, so hardcore endgame raiders wont be able to just stroll in and steamroll everyone. Introducing balanced sets of pvp only gear, given to the player when they first enter the PvP map or whatever, might work. As long as it doesnt become a tiered thing, ie the more time you spend pvping, the better your gear; its not friendly to the noobs. Basically everyone just needs to be at the same level gearwise, so it becomes about skill and strategy. This will bother some players, but most avid pvpers agree that they'd prefer skill vs skill over gear vs gear.

If yoshi wants to get into some WvW down the road that'd be great, and i can see a lot of PvPvE opportunities as well. I know i'd prefer at the least a large scale perpetual PvP castle siege map ala GW2 (doesnt have to be server vs server...yet),with objectives and roaming NMs to fight over. I know i would not prefer 2-3 warzone maps with 15minute matches. Its great in GW2, and was fun for awhile in swtor, but for some reason i wouldnt want to see it in XIV.
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