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No more ARC/BRD Ammo, Current players only retain 1/10 gilFollow

#1 Sep 17 2012 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/14967-Translations-%28JP-to-English%29?p=831427&viewfull=1#post831427

Naoki Yoshida wrote:


プロデューサ/ディレクターの吉田です。
Producer/Director Yoshida here,

先日行った第三回プロデューサーレターライブでの
「新生時、ギルの桁を一桁下げるデノミネーションを行います」という発表に際して、
改めて明確にご報告します。ただし、ライブでもお伝えした繰り返しになりますが、
しっかりトピックスを出しますので、最終的な詳細は少々お待ち下さい。
I have made an announcement that in 2.0 we will be decrease the gil by lowering the gils digit by 1 and would like to confirm this report. I have also mentioned this but we will put this out on Topics as well so please wait for the final details.

新生FFXIVのNPC販売品や買取価格は現行FFXIVの1/10の価格になります
NPC's Buying/selling rate in 2.0 FFXIV will be 1/10's value of current FFXIV
新生FFXIVの各種コンテンツ/モンスタードロップなどの報酬ギル量は現行FFXIVの1/10になります
Reward gil amount from contents/monster drop in 2.0 will be 1/10's value of current FFXIV
現行FFXIVで1桁ギルで販売されているアイテムの買取価格は新生で調整か破棄されます
(破棄となるアイテムは自動的にギル還元しますが、その際も現行価格の1/10で還元されます)
Items sold at 1 digit gil will be adjusted in 2.0 or destroyed.
(For those items that will be destroyed the gil will automatically returned but even at that time the amount returned will be 1/10's of current value)
バトル仕様の大幅変更などにより、新生FFXIVと現行FFXIVのアイテム価値は異なります
Due to the major changes in battle system, the value of items will vary from current and 2.0 FFXIV
現行プレイヤーの皆さんの所持金は新生FFXIV開始時1/10になります
Current players gil will start with 1/10's at start time of FFXIV.


つまり、これまでに皆さんがギルを貯めるために行った努力は無くなりません。
皆さんの所持ギルが1/10になったとしても、ギルの排出量もNPCの売り買いの価格も
1/10になるため相対的にはなにも変わりません。
ただし、心情的にご迷惑をおかけすること、申し訳なく思います。
So all the effort you all put in to obtaining gil hasn't been lost.
Even if everyone's gil is reduced to 1/10's the amount of gil going out and Selling/Buying rate from NPC will also be 1/10's so nothing will change.
However this will inconvenience some emotionally, please accept my apology.

もちろん感覚的にも「お金が減らされる!」という思いはあるかもしれませんが、
この先新生以降、長く運営していく上で経済桁数が大きくなり過ぎているよりも、
現実に近い価値感覚の方が、プレイして頂きやすいと思っての措置です。
Also some may feel that "Money is going to be decreased!" but to continue operations for long term post 2.0 we would like to take measure where the players can feel values closer to reality than having something economically too high.

新生の弓術士は矢を必要としなくなるため、矢の販売価格のために桁が上昇していたのを
適正化しようというのが今回の理由の全てです。
それ以外に現行プレイヤーの皆さんのギル数を削減したいなどの、他意図はありませんので、
その点についても、もう一度申し添えておきます。
In 2.0 archer wont require arrows therefore we don't have to have the digit increased for the arrow price and decided to optimize. This is the main/only reason behind it.
We have no other intentions of deleting players gil so wanted to make that part clear.

ライブでも「全体の経済も1/10にしますので、不利益はありません」と
シンプルにお伝えしましたが、言葉足らずで大変失礼致しました。
At the live we simply mentioned that the entire economy will also be 1/10's so there will be no loss. I apologize for not making it clear.


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#2 Sep 17 2012 at 4:28 PM Rating: Default
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That's good since most other mmo's don't use arrows :P That means I'm down to 2.4million~! gah lol
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#3 Sep 17 2012 at 5:17 PM Rating: Good
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Other sites are saying 1 decimal off the max gil... so the only player losing out would be those with 999999999 or whatever...? The no arrows thing I guess is good since BRD is the main RNG at the moment and while it does good DD it's not amazing enough to pay for said damage.
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#4 Sep 17 2012 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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Nevermind found this translated officially, looks like those of us with small amounts of gil (ie not 10's of millions) might be best off investing in items... question is, which ones will not be OVER hoarded. Personally I wouldn't have minded a complete item/gil wipe with the exception of rare/ex items, but then again I've only done Moogle and Ifrit a few hundred times with only 3 (2 really since I got sword twice) drops... And not thousands (exagerating? I dunno) with one drop...

Quote:
Hello! Producer/Director Yoshida here.

I would like to clarify the announcement I made the other day during the Letter from the Producer LIVE in regards to denomination by reducing max digits of gil by one. However, as I mentioned, we will be making an announcement on Topics about this, so please wait just a bit more for the final details.
1.The prices of NPC goods and how much they pay for your items in A Realm Reborn will be 1/10th of the price currently.
2.The amount of gil received as rewards for content and monster drops in A Realm Reborn will be 1/10th of what they are currently.
3.All items current being sold with a single-digit value of gil will either have their sale values modified or be removed from the game. (Items removed from the game will be automatically converted to their value in gil, which will be calculated as 1/10th of their current value)
4.Due to the large scale changes in battle specs, the value of items in A Realm Reborn and the current version will be different.
5.The amount of gil players currently possess will become 1/10th of what they possess when A Realm Reborn launches.

In other words, all the hard work you've put into saving up gil won't be lost. Even though the gil you possess will become 1/10th what it currently is, we're adjusting NPC sale/buy prices to also become 1/10th what they are now, so relatively nothing will change. However, we do apologize that this may be a shock emotionally.

Players may feel like "my money is being reduced!" However, we're doing this so that when we launch A Realm Reborn and support it for many years to come, it will be easier to play with a more realistic sense of value than just having huge economical digits just because.

The whole reason for this change is to rectify the increase in cost of items relative to the price of arrows, since archers in A Realm Reborn will no longer need arrows. I'd like to make it clear that we have no other agenda in wanting to reduce the amount of gil everyone has currently.

During the live stream I tried to convey this all by saying "the entire economy will become 1/10th of what it is currently, so there is no detriment," but I apologize for my lack of explanation.

--------------------------------------------------------

From here on out is just icing on the cake, so if you are not so keen on somewhat overly complex details, feel free to skip over this.

The denomination to take place with the shift to FFXIV: A Realm Reborn, as stated above, is making the amount generated, the amount gained, and the amount in circulation 1/10th what it is now. In other words, it would be best for players not to do anything at this point in time.

I'm sure there are some thoughts about selling items before they become 1/10th what they are currently, but as I wrote in #1, 3, and 4 above, the NPC item purchase prices and items that are useful in battle will change to go along with the balance changes in A Realm Reborn.

For example, let's say you're thinking "I better hurry up and sell Heaven's Eye Materia IV!" However, with the balance in A Realm Reborn, there is a possibility of changes in the amount of these being generated and they could not be as effective as they are currently. This is something that we cannot clearly answer as we're balancing this as we are creating it. While there is still the possibility for futures purchasing, please keep in mind that there is also the possibility for large losses as well.

In other words, it would be best to stay the current course
____________________________
FFXI:Sylph - Perrin 75 Hume THF; Retired (At least from my use any way)
EVE Online:ScraperX; Retired
WAR:IronClaw- Peryn SW;SkullThrone- Grymloc BO; Retired


#5 Sep 17 2012 at 10:11 PM Rating: Decent
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924 posts
Perrin wrote:
Nevermind found this translated officially, looks like those of us with small amounts of gil (ie not 10's of millions) might be best off investing in items... question is, which ones will not be OVER hoarded. Personally I wouldn't have minded a complete item/gil wipe with the exception of rare/ex items, but then again I've only done Moogle and Ifrit a few hundred times with only 3 (2 really since I got sword twice) drops... And not thousands (exagerating? I dunno) with one drop...

Quote:
Hello! Producer/Director Yoshida here.

I would like to clarify the announcement I made the other day during the Letter from the Producer LIVE in regards to denomination by reducing max digits of gil by one. However, as I mentioned, we will be making an announcement on Topics about this, so please wait just a bit more for the final details.
1.The prices of NPC goods and how much they pay for your items in A Realm Reborn will be 1/10th of the price currently.
2.The amount of gil received as rewards for content and monster drops in A Realm Reborn will be 1/10th of what they are currently.
3.All items current being sold with a single-digit value of gil will either have their sale values modified or be removed from the game. (Items removed from the game will be automatically converted to their value in gil, which will be calculated as 1/10th of their current value)
4.Due to the large scale changes in battle specs, the value of items in A Realm Reborn and the current version will be different.
5.The amount of gil players currently possess will become 1/10th of what they possess when A Realm Reborn launches.

In other words, all the hard work you've put into saving up gil won't be lost. Even though the gil you possess will become 1/10th what it currently is, we're adjusting NPC sale/buy prices to also become 1/10th what they are now, so relatively nothing will change. However, we do apologize that this may be a shock emotionally.

Players may feel like "my money is being reduced!" However, we're doing this so that when we launch A Realm Reborn and support it for many years to come, it will be easier to play with a more realistic sense of value than just having huge economical digits just because.

The whole reason for this change is to rectify the increase in cost of items relative to the price of arrows, since archers in A Realm Reborn will no longer need arrows. I'd like to make it clear that we have no other agenda in wanting to reduce the amount of gil everyone has currently.

During the live stream I tried to convey this all by saying "the entire economy will become 1/10th of what it is currently, so there is no detriment," but I apologize for my lack of explanation.

--------------------------------------------------------

From here on out is just icing on the cake, so if you are not so keen on somewhat overly complex details, feel free to skip over this.

The denomination to take place with the shift to FFXIV: A Realm Reborn, as stated above, is making the amount generated, the amount gained, and the amount in circulation 1/10th what it is now. In other words, it would be best for players not to do anything at this point in time.

I'm sure there are some thoughts about selling items before they become 1/10th what they are currently, but as I wrote in #1, 3, and 4 above, the NPC item purchase prices and items that are useful in battle will change to go along with the balance changes in A Realm Reborn.

For example, let's say you're thinking "I better hurry up and sell Heaven's Eye Materia IV!" However, with the balance in A Realm Reborn, there is a possibility of changes in the amount of these being generated and they could not be as effective as they are currently. This is something that we cannot clearly answer as we're balancing this as we are creating it. While there is still the possibility for futures purchasing, please keep in mind that there is also the possibility for large losses as well.

In other words, it would be best to stay the current course


Yoshi himself said don't bother because: "For example, let's say you're thinking "I better hurry up and sell Heaven's Eye Materia IV!" However, with the balance in A Realm Reborn, there is a possibility of changes in the amount of these being generated and they could not be as effective as they are currently. This is something that we cannot clearly answer as we're balancing this as we are creating it. While there is still the possibility for futures purchasing, please keep in mind that there is also the possibility for large losses as well. "

Last sentence of your quote. If you hoard items because you think they will sell more; I feel your in for a downfall. This is a simple yet pain in the *** case of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redenomination, all prices are expected to drop to 10% of what they once were; and even if a few people want to keep prices expensive mostly everyone will undercut and get down to that price to being with. Eventually everyone will have to be on board.

Now; if you want to really make use of your cash now and you want to level wood working, craft arrows out the ears and NPC em or sell em?
____________________________
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#6 Sep 17 2012 at 11:40 PM Rating: Decent
Tho I'm sure this will work out, I'm a little ****** at the whole situation. I've worked really hard to get the amount of gil I have, and will be quite displeased when it goes down to 1/10 of what I have earned. Also how will this effect the primary ways to make money.. i.e. mining, I did not spend countless hours doing what I have been doing mining for no reason. This seems like a shallow attempt to make the ps3 folks feel like they can catch up monetarily.
#7 Sep 18 2012 at 2:35 AM Rating: Good
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If everything is reduced by 1/10th it doesn't matter how much you have, it's still worth the same later on.

Just look at it as cutting a "0" off the end of the entire economy.
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#8 Sep 18 2012 at 3:06 AM Rating: Good
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Arrow change sounds logical, if you consider that items do degrade in quality over time and have to be repaired. I think players have to keep in mind that in 2.0 they will only have 100 inv so the idea of an ARC holding onto 5-10 stacks of 999 arrows is ridiculous. However if they have a "quiver" with durability then it works in the same manner, they could conceptualize the idea where a quiver has "x" amount of uses before needing to be repaired/replenished. They could even make expendable items that stack to 12 that "replenish a quiver to full" to give archers.

One thing I do wonder though with all these changes going on, I wonder how much the battle concepts of each class will change come 2.0 since they are redesigning the battle system again.
#9 Sep 18 2012 at 7:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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gizmonix wrote:
...I'm a little ****** at the whole situation. I've worked really hard to get the amount of gil I have, and will be quite displeased when it goes down to 1/10 of what I have earned....I did not spend countless hours doing what I have been doing mining for no reason...


There's always one... Smiley: rolleyes
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#10 Sep 18 2012 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
gizmonix wrote:
...I'm a little ****** at the whole situation. I've worked really hard to get the amount of gil I have, and will be quite displeased when it goes down to 1/10 of what I have earned....I did not spend countless hours doing what I have been doing mining for no reason...


There's always one... Smiley: rolleyes


You would be surprised how many people do not understand the concept of dropping a 0 from the global economy. There is 50+ pages and god only knows how many threads of people not understanding thins on the SE forum. *shrug* what can you do.
My home country did the same thing ~16 years ago, do to inflation. Value didn't change but they dropped a 0, to account for inflation. This is not a new concept, people are just poorly educated and they can't make heads or tails of it.

No ammo in ARR, is good news... as cost of ammo alone was the major factor for many people to avoid RNG, and COR in XI like the plague.
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#11 Sep 18 2012 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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It's going to feel sad, but its a great change.

Make that 1 million gil mark be a worthy goal again. This also makes it less intimidating for new players, even if the relative gil-value doesn't change.

I'm also not one of the super rich. Currently I have 2.4 mil and that's from mining for long hours with a mean foreman in a cramped shaft that could collapse at any moment.
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#12 Sep 18 2012 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sure this will upset a lot of people, but it's probably the best way to entice new players to join veterans on established servers. Some people will be mad, but they'll probably get over it when they see their server pop spike upward.
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#13 Sep 18 2012 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Perrin wrote:
Nevermind found this translated officially, looks like those of us with small amounts of gil (ie not 10's of millions) might be best off investing in items... question is, which ones will not be OVER hoarded. Personally I wouldn't have minded a complete item/gil wipe with the exception of rare/ex items, but then again I've only done Moogle and Ifrit a few hundred times with only 3 (2 really since I got sword twice) drops... And not thousands (exagerating? I dunno) with one drop.


Thing is, if everyone loses 90% of their Gil, you've effectively lost nothing.

But panic buying could land you in trouble. Not only would you pay inflated prices for the irrational demand, but the market will be flooded with your stuff after the transition and you'll end up in an under cutter's market.

The smart thing to do is give the speculators what they want, sell your valuables now and buy them back for a steep discount later.

Just my opinion on the matter.
#14 Sep 18 2012 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:

The smart thing to do is give the speculators what they want, sell your valuables now and buy them back for a steep discount later.


You sell your valuables for 100 million old currency. 2.0 hit's, you buy back same valuables for 10 million new currency. You are exactly were you started! Both acquisition and expenses of gil will loses a 0 at the end. It make's no difference how much money you have. I guess people rather see big number's worth little then small number's worth something.
Case and point would you rather have a 4000USD salary or 1.5 million Zimbabwe Dollars... value is the same....


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#15 Sep 18 2012 at 3:17 PM Rating: Default
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TwiddleDee wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
gizmonix wrote:
...I'm a little ****** at the whole situation. I've worked really hard to get the amount of gil I have, and will be quite displeased when it goes down to 1/10 of what I have earned....I did not spend countless hours doing what I have been doing mining for no reason...


There's always one... Smiley: rolleyes


You would be surprised how many people do not understand the concept of dropping a 0 from the global economy. There is 50+ pages and god only knows how many threads of people not understanding thins on the SE forum. *shrug* what can you do.
My home country did the same thing ~16 years ago, do to inflation. Value didn't change but they dropped a 0, to account for inflation. This is not a new concept, people are just poorly educated and they can't make heads or tails of it.

No ammo in ARR, is good news... as cost of ammo alone was the major factor for many people to avoid RNG, and COR in XI like the plague.


This has no correlation at all to our situation. SE is not taking gil out of ONE area in a world economy, they are cutting everything. The base value of every item will remain the same as long as their status (read: how powerfull they remain) stay the same. Your spending power or selling power won't decreese at all, stop trying to lecture people with bad examples.
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#16 Sep 18 2012 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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crasyk wrote:
This has no correlation at all to our situation. SE is not taking gil out of ONE area in a world economy, they are cutting everything. The base value of every item will remain the same as long as their status (read: how powerfull they remain) stay the same. Your spending power or selling power won't decreese at all, stop trying to lecture people with bad examples.


Why bother, i can troll you or defend again your accusation, but why bother.
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#17 Sep 18 2012 at 6:51 PM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Xoie wrote:

The smart thing to do is give the speculators what they want, sell your valuables now and buy them back for a steep discount later.


You sell your valuables for 100 million old currency. 2.0 hit's, you buy back same valuables for 10 million new currency. You are exactly were you started! Both acquisition and expenses of gil will loses a 0 at the end. It make's no difference how much money you have. I guess people rather see big number's worth little then small number's worth something.
Case and point would you rather have a 4000USD salary or 1.5 million Zimbabwe Dollars... value is the same....




I'm not upset about the gil thing, and I understand it completely. However there WILL be items that increase above their modified value, it's taking a risk and picking something that very few others pick AND either picking something where the stats won't change or could change in the favor of being useful... for example maybe a cheap pot or something of that nature. I would never reccomend purchasing a bunch of high gil materia when we know that certain stat calculations are going to change, however I might take a risk on bulk low price items that affect a certain stat that currently players do not use. In doing so I know I have even worse odds than a slot machine and would never put alot of money in that direction, but I might invest a small amount in that fashion as I have a few theories on certain stats... You won't see me here whinging if I take a loss, but I'm sure others will more than make up for my silence.
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#18 Sep 18 2012 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Xoie wrote:

The smart thing to do is give the speculators what they want, sell your valuables now and buy them back for a steep discount later.


You sell your valuables for 100 million old currency. 2.0 hit's, you buy back same valuables for 10 million new currency. You are exactly were you started! Both acquisition and expenses of gil will loses a 0 at the end. It make's no difference how much money you have. I guess people rather see big number's worth little then small number's worth something.
Case and point would you rather have a 4000USD salary or 1.5 million Zimbabwe Dollars... value is the same....


Not exactly, many things will change in ARR and that's why people are speculating. For instance, stats will change to 50/50 base stat:gear, meaning Materia Grade IV can be either in more demand or less demand. Also Relic quest may change, as people already pointed out why PLD and BRD use same Acc Materia for Double Meld has made that the most expensive Materia out of all the Double Melding ones. These will surely in turn affect Materia price, which is the stuff that people are speculating on.
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#19 Sep 18 2012 at 10:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Xoie wrote:

The smart thing to do is give the speculators what they want, sell your valuables now and buy them back for a steep discount later.


You sell your valuables for 100 million old currency. 2.0 hit's, you buy back same valuables for 10 million new currency. You are exactly were you started! Both acquisition and expenses of gil will loses a 0 at the end.


You'd be right if the market behaved rationally. But people are snapping up materia and other things irrationally. A one million Gil materia might sell for 2 or 3 million now. Maybe people are buying overpriced because they think it will retain its value more, maybe because they're betting the demand will improve under the 2.0 rules, maybe they're buying because everyone else is buying and they hope to sucker their way into a profit.

But speculation bubbles burst, and once it pops, people are going to rid themselves of their junk while sinking prices are still high, which itself escalates the price drop.

So even if the one million Gil materia is worth one hundred thousand in 2.0, i'm saying if you buy now you'll pay more than a million and if you sell later you'll get less than a hundred thousand. Better not to have speculated in the first place.

#20 Sep 19 2012 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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TwiddleDee wrote:
crasyk wrote:
This has no correlation at all to our situation. SE is not taking gil out of ONE area in a world economy, they are cutting everything. The base value of every item will remain the same as long as their status (read: how powerfull they remain) stay the same. Your spending power or selling power won't decreese at all, stop trying to lecture people with bad examples.


Why bother, i can troll you or defend again your accusation, but why bother.


Humor me, how would you defend it? And saying "I trolled you so bad!" whenever you fail to come up with a logical argument really won't help you.

Also, accusation? If I accused you of something it would imply theres a possible reason that I might be wrong and that your example could hold some merit, which it does not.
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#21 Sep 19 2012 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
After thinking and realizing what is actually going on.. I have to say, this makes no difference to me at all. I understand it in different light than before, and it makes sense to do it. Please forgive my earlier transgressions as I was tired and not thinking clearly.
#22 Sep 20 2012 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
Xoie wrote:

The smart thing to do is give the speculators what they want, sell your valuables now and buy them back for a steep discount later.


You sell your valuables for 100 million old currency. 2.0 hit's, you buy back same valuables for 10 million new currency. You are exactly were you started! Both acquisition and expenses of gil will loses a 0 at the end.


You'd be right if the market behaved rationally. But people are snapping up materia and other things irrationally. A one million Gil materia might sell for 2 or 3 million now. Maybe people are buying overpriced because they think it will retain its value more, maybe because they're betting the demand will improve under the 2.0 rules, maybe they're buying because everyone else is buying and they hope to sucker their way into a profit.

But speculation bubbles burst, and once it pops, people are going to rid themselves of their junk while sinking prices are still high, which itself escalates the price drop.

So even if the one million Gil materia is worth one hundred thousand in 2.0, i'm saying if you buy now you'll pay more than a million and if you sell later you'll get less than a hundred thousand. Better not to have speculated in the first place.



You are correct there's no guaranty that an item worth (in MW/AH) 1,000,000 will be priced at 100,000 come 2.0 even if that is the intent by SE. So best thing is to wait and see, like you said.. as who knows what the cost of the item above may really be.

crasyk wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
crasyk wrote:
This has no correlation at all to our situation. SE is not taking gil out of ONE area in a world economy, they are cutting everything. The base value of every item will remain the same as long as their status (read: how powerfull they remain) stay the same. Your spending power or selling power won't decreese at all, stop trying to lecture people with bad examples.


Why bother, i can troll you or defend again your accusation, but why bother.


Humor me, how would you defend it? And saying "I trolled you so bad!" whenever you fail to come up with a logical argument really won't help you.

Also, accusation? If I accused you of something it would imply theres a possible reason that I might be wrong and that your example could hold some merit, which it does not.


Ok i'll humor you: both of my examples are only text book examples of dropping a 0 in an economy.
Base value of an apple (from NPC) = 100 gil now
Base value of an apple (from NPC) = 10 gil in 2.0
Is what i am getting at: But this does not take in to account the player's selling cost, as:
Base value of an orange (from PC) = 100 gil now
Base value of an orange (from PC) = ??? gil in 2.0
And this here is were people are getting thing's mixed up, as while the global economy (none player controlled) will drop a digit. Players may still ask for 100gil for that same orange come 2.0.
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#23 Sep 20 2012 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:

Ok i'll humor you: both of my examples are only text book examples of dropping a 0 in an economy.
Base value of an apple (from NPC) = 100 gil now
Base value of an apple (from NPC) = 10 gil in 2.0
Is what i am getting at: But this does not take in to account the player's selling cost, as:
Base value of an orange (from PC) = 100 gil now
Base value of an orange (from PC) = ??? gil in 2.0
And this here is were people are getting thing's mixed up, as while the global economy (none player controlled) will drop a digit. Players may still ask for 100gil for that same orange come 2.0.


Some people will always overprice, some will undercut, the middle will almost always follow supply and demand or else make room for arbitrage. This is economy 101...

If you're given 1/10th of the salary you get IRL right now, would you stil be willing to pay the same price for food, housing, electrisity etc? No, not unless someone has monopoly, and people don't in this game. Least not on oranges :P

Conclusion is, this won't effect the players as a buyer or seller, it will simply make ammounts smaller. 1 fish will stil trade for 4 crystals if you get what I'm saying.
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#24 Sep 20 2012 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
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The biggest variable here, is the economy change assumes all things will remain equal.

This probably won't be the case, as Yoshi-P has indicated that our primary means of leveling will be an array of content, dungeons, quests, etc.

In this, we will have many new avenues of gil introduction that currently don't exist. So it will remain to be seen how that is balanced, but this could lead to a higher devaluation of our current gil.

Not to mention.. there's a huge unlimited gil exploit going on right now that I haven't seen mentioned on Zam yet.. Thank god for this emergency update today...

Edited, Sep 20th 2012 3:19pm by Louiscool
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#25 Sep 21 2012 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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People need to stop thinking about this as losing money and start thinking of this as 'New people are coming...'

Anyone who played FF XI and experienced the 360 launch should know what to do right now. You don't go and spend your gil on stuff thats worth millions, you buy or farm noob level stuff (desired leveling armor, crafting materials) in huge bulk and list it after 2.0 launches and watch the money flood in because of the rediculous demand. Yeah you could invest in high level gear before 2.0 but by the time the new people get that high, the economy will have stabilized a bit. Crappy low level stuff is always worth a ton the first month when you experience floods of new people into the game.

I never gave XIV enough of a chance to make good gil, and I'll probably be one of the poor suckers who have to buy all the inflated stuff, but its part of relaunches that rarely occur.
#26 Sep 21 2012 at 7:43 PM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Base value of an apple (from NPC) = 100 gil now
Base value of an apple (from NPC) = 10 gil in 2.0
Is what i am getting at: But this does not take in to account the player's selling cost, as:
Base value of an orange (from PC) = 100 gil now
Base value of an orange (from PC) = ??? gil in 2.0
And this here is were people are getting thing's mixed up, as while the global economy (none player controlled) will drop a digit. Players may still ask for 100gil for that same orange come 2.0.


Well what's stopping from players asking for 1,000,000 for an orange right now? There will be competition; and I believe that balance will return after a short time. Smiley: nod
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#27 Sep 21 2012 at 11:36 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
Base value of an apple (from NPC) = 100 gil now
Base value of an apple (from NPC) = 10 gil in 2.0
Is what i am getting at: But this does not take in to account the player's selling cost, as:
Base value of an orange (from PC) = 100 gil now
Base value of an orange (from PC) = ??? gil in 2.0
And this here is were people are getting thing's mixed up, as while the global economy (none player controlled) will drop a digit. Players may still ask for 100gil for that same orange come 2.0.


Well what's stopping from players asking for 1,000,000 for an orange right now? There will be competition; and I believe that balance will return after a short time. Smiley: nod


And the best way for SE to stabilize the economy is through NPC prices.

Any NPC price basically sets a cap on what players can sell something for. Only the uninformed buy stuff for above npc prices.
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#28 Sep 22 2012 at 2:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
Base value of an apple (from NPC) = 100 gil now
Base value of an apple (from NPC) = 10 gil in 2.0
Is what i am getting at: But this does not take in to account the player's selling cost, as:
Base value of an orange (from PC) = 100 gil now
Base value of an orange (from PC) = ??? gil in 2.0
And this here is were people are getting thing's mixed up, as while the global economy (none player controlled) will drop a digit. Players may still ask for 100gil for that same orange come 2.0.


Well what's stopping from players asking for 1,000,000 for an orange right now? There will be competition; and I believe that balance will return after a short time. Smiley: nod


And the best way for SE to stabilize the economy is through NPC prices.

Any NPC price basically sets a cap on what players can sell something for. Only the uninformed buy stuff for above npc prices.


Oh, distilled water on the AH in FFXI, how I miss ye!
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#29 Sep 22 2012 at 4:04 AM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
And the best way for SE to stabilize the economy is through NPC prices.


No, the best way to Square-Enix (or any MMO) to stabilize the economy in an MMO is to leave it the **** alone. Every time the developers step in to try to fix a market they ***** it up: it's just like the government in that aspect. The whole cutting down money by 90% come 2.0 isn't going to do anything. The "rich" will re-balance to the market to what they want it to show and it doesn't matter if you have 1,000,000 gil or 100,000 gil: the price will be the price will be the price.

You hear this in every single MMO out there: "WAAYYYYY!!! THE ECONOMY SUCKS!!!!" It means nothing because whether you're floating with a 'ceiling' of 10million gil or 1 billion gil it's nothing more than percentages. If they line up (which they always do) then absolutely nothing has changed; all that happens is a meaningless freakout for people that don't check up on forums that weren't informed.


Edited, Sep 22nd 2012 6:05am by Viertel
#30 Sep 22 2012 at 1:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Viertel wrote:
No, the best way to Square-Enix (or any MMO) to stabilize the economy in an MMO is to leave it the **** alone. Every time the developers step in to try to fix a market they ***** it up: it's just like the government in that aspect.


Name me one society in the history of the world that was economically prosperous with a weak or non-existent government. Take your time. I'll wait. But I can assure you what you're asking for has never existed. Ever.
#31 Sep 22 2012 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:
Viertel wrote:
No, the best way to Square-Enix (or any MMO) to stabilize the economy in an MMO is to leave it the **** alone. Every time the developers step in to try to fix a market they ***** it up: it's just like the government in that aspect.


Name me one society in the history of the world that was economically prosperous with a weak or non-existent government. Take your time. I'll wait. But I can assure you what you're asking for has never existed. Ever.


Exactly.


Ignoring the weird government derail, MMO economy =/= to real life economy (Unless you're Eve Online)

In the real world, money is circulated, not created. MMO's give away money that never existed, thus creating inflation, so they need to self-regulate with money sinks to remove as much as they are introducing.

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#32 Sep 22 2012 at 5:57 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
In the real world, money is circulated.


Funny you should say that. The French economist who came up with the concept that money circulates in the economy like blood is Francois Quesnay. The same man who said that government intervention disrupts that circulation and it's better to leave it alone, or as the French say, "Laissez-faire." Smiley: lol

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