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Why 2.0 will failFollow

#1 Oct 23 2012 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Before you read any further I ask that you do (3) things.

(1) Don't be a fanboy. Fanboys who will play anything Square-Enix releases are what has allowed them to produce the slew of mediocre entries to the series for quite some time now.

(2) Recognize that I am not a troll, a hater, a Squarist, or any other odd term you might conjure up to otherwise state that I dislike the company. Every game I have played across any genre has been benchmarked against the likes of FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, FFXI and FFXII. In short, I love the Final Fantasy games.

(3) Remember that any reference to FFXI is used for comparison purposes only. FFXI was Square's Flagship MMO. Anything they make beyond that will be heavily compared and contrasted to that title in every possible manner by ANY former player who is deciding to give FFXIV 2.0 a try..

That being said, here is why I believe FFXIV 2.0 will fail, or at least not be nearly as successful as we would like it to be.

FFXI, despite it's many flaws had a great charm about it. It was unique, albeit in some ways that make most hardcore MMO players cringe. I , along with many other people, greatly enjoyed shouting for a <teleport - Altep> in lower Jeuno follwed by watching a senior white mage whisk me off to my destination. We enjoyed the airship rides, fishing off the ferry boats with friends, and having to actually search through the environment to find quest items and destinations. Did this take alot of time? Yes. Was it inconvenient sometimes? Definitely. But it certainly added a level of community, depth, and realism that you simply don't find in other games. That is, of course, only one of many things that made this game, with currently close to 500,000 players STILL SUBSCRIBED on a monthly basis, unique to say the least. I would be willing to bet however, that the majority of those players are not necessarily MMO players, but Final Fantasy players who, like me, enjoyed the particular way in which they served the generally bland MMO formula up to us.

FFXIV 2.0 is bent on modifying the system to be much closer to what that of the hardcore MMO player fanbase out there has come to expect. Everything is time sensitive now: Quests have clear markers telling you exactly (or nearly so) where to go to complete every step, Ferry and Airship rides will be instant, we will be able to zip around the world using our Anima being limited only by our overuse of it, and the tutorial will take you through the first 10 levels of play in what I have to assume is a very short amount of time. We won't have Chocobos, we'll have mounts. We won't have raise, people will ask "can you give me a rez." We won't inventory, we'll have bags. God only knows how long it will take before Gil gets traded for Gold, Silver, and Copper. While all of this is great for MMO gamers out there these changes are likely to turn off the longtime Fans of the series who will instead opt for offline titles, or stick with the ol' trusty FFXI. Okay, so what? With all the hardcore MMO players joining who cares if the longtime fans jump ship? Well there lies the 2nd half of this argument.

Because not only will it potentially alienate many of the longtime fans by getting rid of all those things that made the FFXI and offline titles of yesteryear so charming, but there will be nothing innovative or fresh enough or unique enough compared to the myriad of MMOs out there to hold a strong hardcore MMO player base. ****, SWTOR gave it a full-voiced over quest effort complete with the ability to play out scenes with your party. Nobody cared, they just skipped over it because it wastes valuable raiding time.

In short, many of the longtime fans won't find enough that is familiar to them to keep them engaged, while many of the new players Square hopes to attract (something they are banking on) will give it a shot, maybe play a trial given by their friend, and say "meh, " before heading back to WoW or Swtor or the upcoming Elder Scrolls Online.


...and before you push me down. I sincerely hope I'm wrong here.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2012 6:01pm by electromagnet83
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#2 Oct 23 2012 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Good Post! But i disagree with you, i do not think that by putting the game up to standards, it will cause it's failure, for XI was EQ coated in FF. That is a fact, and even tho every fanboy wants to think FFXI was something out of this world, or a gift from the heavens the reality is that EQ was the blueprint for FFXI, what SE did whoever was to add FF elements on what they considered where EQ shortcomings, quest's for example are given a very different presentation in FFXI than they where in EQ, they used scenes in key plot points to draw the audience into the story(Which was a very simple story, nothing out of this world, but very well presented across the board) they capitalized on always being the standard as far as graphics is concerned, and gave life to a very detailed, well presented world, and above all else, the game had legs, it could stand on it's own story/lore next to any game in the franchise.

Sadly that will not be the case in FFXIV, SE is **** bent on butchering every major draw their main series has, and transplanting them into XIV and call it "FINAL FANTASY."

Also take note, that even tho SE wants to draw in the bigger casual crowd, they have no idea of what that will mean to the game, or to their development team :) They are trying to bite way more than what they can chew.
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#3 Oct 23 2012 at 6:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly? If I want to play XI, I'll play XI. I want something different in XIV 2.0.

As long as they fix the underlying game engine problems, 2.0 has a chance to succeed. It could still fail, for all the reasons listed above. But for the early adopters, the unplayable game is what drove them off. There also a huge market of folks who were patiently waiting for it to come to PS3, and if that actually comes to fruition, and the game runs well without the issues that plagued early 1.0, they'll stick around for a few months at least.


Edited, Oct 23rd 2012 8:31pm by catwho
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#4 Oct 23 2012 at 7:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly... as long as there is a huge, explorable, richly filled world, takes long to level up to max, good questing experience, awesome player housing feature, chocobo raising/fighting, and promise of awesome new jobs coming (which all of this is said to be put in 2.0) it will have my full attention. That is all I need to be happy :P
#5 Oct 23 2012 at 8:38 PM Rating: Good
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i've been playing all the recent mmo to the end game with full gears and Gw2 nails me the most.[ 3 chars 80s ]
I'm ff fanboy though. hopfully it's gonna be as good as gw2 or better

Ps ; They are gonna add a new fresh server right ? it wont be fun neither to play an old server with a lot of 50s around

Edited, Oct 23rd 2012 10:41pm by punnjunior
#6 Oct 23 2012 at 9:00 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
Honestly? If I want to play XI, I'll play XI.


That's true: we don't need two MMOs like FFXI, that's redundant... we need 63 like WoW!

Edited, Oct 23rd 2012 11:04pm by KaneKitty
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#7 Oct 23 2012 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes they will add new servers for new players, also i would like to point out, that what i wrote is my own personal opinion, i am sure many people are fine with XIV being a fan service ******* but in my opinion that is what X-2 and XIII-2 where for and they did not do that well(When compared to the originals) and i have no problem with SE using locations or very memorable dungeons from the franchise, what i have a problem with, is major story elements and key features of the series games being taken and just ported for the sake of them being ported, for example: Materia, Meteor, THE STORY LINE FROM FFVI (An evil magitek empire bent on ruling the world ) Time travel ala Chrono/FFXIII w/o no backstory or anything, just Pufff we can use time magic (Might had been smarter to use that time magic, to travel back in time, and warn the city states of the empires plans, and counter them) etc etc

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#8 Oct 24 2012 at 4:25 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think anyone really believes FFXIV is going to be the wild success it needs to be to recover the money they spent on it, it won't even exceed what FFXI is now (that game that cost them 12million to create 10 years ago), let alone what it managed at peak.

However I don't think Square will shut the game down no matter how badly it does, that's something at least for people that like it.

Quote:
FFXI, despite it's many flaws had a great charm about it. It was unique, albeit in some ways that make most hardcore MMO players cringe. I , along with many other people, greatly enjoyed shouting for a <teleport - Altep> in lower Jeuno follwed by watching a senior white mage whisk me off to my destination. We enjoyed the airship rides, fishing off the ferry boats with friends, and having to actually search through the environment to find quest items and destinations. Did this take alot of time? Yes. Was it inconvenient sometimes? Definitely. But it certainly added a level of community, depth, and realism that you simply don't find in other games. That is, of course, only one of many things that made this game, with currently close to 500,000 players STILL SUBSCRIBED on a monthly basis, unique to say the least. I would be willing to bet however, that the majority of those players are not necessarily MMO players, but Final Fantasy players who, like me, enjoyed the particular way in which they served the generally bland MMO formula up to us


FFXI had 500k at peak, starvation of content and developers due to XIV it's now at or below 100k players. Probably quite a lot lower than 100k infact.



Edited, Oct 24th 2012 6:30am by Runespider
#9 Oct 24 2012 at 5:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
catwho wrote:
Honestly? If I want to play XI, I'll play XI.


That's true: we don't need two MMOs like FFXI, that's redundant... we need 63 like WoW!

Edited, Oct 23rd 2012 11:04pm by KaneKitty


LOL! Kitty you crack me up. 63 though... Really?! Don't you think you are underestimating the number a little?

In terms of answering the OP, I disagree with a couple of things you said. One being, Yoshi has promised this game will be very recognizable to fans of the FF legacy. He is supposedly adding lots of locales, jobs and allusions to older titles. I'm not convinced either that will make it a good game but wanted to be clear about one of your basic assumptions.
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#10 Oct 24 2012 at 6:44 AM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
Before you read any further I ask that you do (3) things.

(1) Don't be a fanboy. Fanboys who will play anything Square-Enix releases are what has allowed them to produce the slew of mediocre entries to the series for quite some time now.

(2) Recognize that I am not a troll, a hater, a Squarist, or any other odd term you might conjure up to otherwise state that I dislike the company. Every game I have played across any genre has been benchmarked against the likes of FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, FFXI and FFXII. In short, I love the Final Fantasy games.

(3) Remember that any reference to FFXI is used for comparison purposes only. FFXI was Square's Flagship MMO. Anything they make beyond that will be heavily compared and contrasted to that title in every possible manner by ANY former player who is deciding to give FFXIV 2.0 a try..

That being said, here is why I believe FFXIV 2.0 will fail, or at least not be nearly as successful as we would like it to be.

FFXI, despite it's many flaws had a great charm about it. It was unique, albeit in some ways that make most hardcore MMO players cringe. I , along with many other people, greatly enjoyed shouting for a <teleport - Altep> in lower Jeuno follwed by watching a senior white mage whisk me off to my destination. We enjoyed the airship rides, fishing off the ferry boats with friends, and having to actually search through the environment to find quest items and destinations. Did this take alot of time? Yes. Was it inconvenient sometimes? Definitely. But it certainly added a level of community, depth, and realism that you simply don't find in other games. That is, of course, only one of many things that made this game, with currently close to 500,000 players STILL SUBSCRIBED on a monthly basis, unique to say the least. I would be willing to bet however, that the majority of those players are not necessarily MMO players, but Final Fantasy players who, like me, enjoyed the particular way in which they served the generally bland MMO formula up to us.

FFXIV 2.0 is bent on modifying the system to be much closer to what that of the hardcore MMO player fanbase out there has come to expect. Everything is time sensitive now: Quests have clear markers telling you exactly (or nearly so) where to go to complete every step, Ferry and Airship rides will be instant, we will be able to zip around the world using our Anima being limited only by our overuse of it, and the tutorial will take you through the first 10 levels of play in what I have to assume is a very short amount of time. We won't have Chocobos, we'll have mounts. We won't have raise, people will ask "can you give me a rez." We won't inventory, we'll have bags. God only knows how long it will take before Gil gets traded for Gold, Silver, and Copper. While all of this is great for MMO gamers out there these changes are likely to turn off the longtime Fans of the series who will instead opt for offline titles, or stick with the ol' trusty FFXI. Okay, so what? With all the hardcore MMO players joining who cares if the longtime fans jump ship? Well there lies the 2nd half of this argument.

Because not only will it potentially alienate many of the longtime fans by getting rid of all those things that made the FFXI and offline titles of yesteryear so charming, but there will be nothing innovative or fresh enough or unique enough compared to the myriad of MMOs out there to hold a strong hardcore MMO player base. ****, SWTOR gave it a full-voiced over quest effort complete with the ability to play out scenes with your party. Nobody cared, they just skipped over it because it wastes valuable raiding time.

In short, many of the longtime fans won't find enough that is familiar to them to keep them engaged, while many of the new players Square hopes to attract (something they are banking on) will give it a shot, maybe play a trial given by their friend, and say "meh, " before heading back to WoW or Swtor or the upcoming Elder Scrolls Online.


...and before you push me down. I sincerely hope I'm wrong here.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2012 6:01pm by electromagnet83


I disagree. You are making way too many assumptions about a game we know very little about. Why would you automatically think a game is going to fail when the alpha testing has yet to start? They've again completely changed the battle system and nobody outside of SE has yes to actually play it. Yes they've described it, but impressions will most likely always be a little negative due to how the game started off. I also don't understand why people are comparing this to WoW. I see the similarity of the new version being more quest driven when leveling up. This will not stop you from grinding it out if you choose to. They didn't say it wouldn't be possible. They just said it wouldn't be the most efficient and fastest way.

"We won't have Chocobos, we'll have mounts."

Perhaps you're splitting hairs here. Does it really matter what they call the things we can climb on top of and ride to our destination? We WILL have chocobo's to ride. We will in addition to that have other things. Lot's of people like having a variety of creatures to ride. I know you've just recently started playing the game, so if you want a chocobo to ride when 2.0 comes out, make sure you're purchased your chocobo license from the grand company of your choosing.

"We won't have raise, people will ask "can you give me a rez." We won't inventory, we'll have bags. God only knows how long it will take before Gil gets traded for Gold, Silver, and Copper."

Who said we wont have raise? If you can find an article that says we can't do that, please show me. We wont have inventory? We'll have bags? Again, I feel like you're splitting hairs here. What some may call a bag in one part of the world, others may call inventory in another part of the world. They will never change gil to gold, silver, and copper. Gil has been the staple currency in Final Fantasy games since the very beginning. They've said that they are trying to make it more "Final Fantasyish." Why would they change something that is more FF than most anything else?

"Everything is time sensitive now"

You do realize that most people don't want to spend hours and hours sitting in the cities shouting to gather a party right? They are adding content for large groups. I could be wrong, but I've heard 24+ people. Think about how long that will take to gather people for... People want to play the game, not sit around town trying to make a party to play the game. This was one of the biggest complaints that people had with FFXI. They are only changing the game to meet most peoples expectations. If the game is too easy for you, then post your ides and issues on how to fix things on the lodestone. They will listen to people this time when the beta starts. They can't afford to ignore us again like Tanaka did.

Personally, I saw someone just yesterday shouting in Uldah for a teleport into mor dhona. Personally, I don't enjoy standing there shouting for a tele, but others may. They have said that they will be adding sky views of Eorzea when we ride the airships similar to what FFXI had. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure we can fish off the ferry. Granted we've only got the 1 and nobody ever rides it due to the convenience of teleporting, but I'm pretty sure it's there if you want to take part in that.

"produce the slew of mediocre entries to the series for quite some time now"

Yes, many people would agree with your statement here. I read an interview with ********* Amano and even he said that he has seen a dramatic change in the series ever since FFX. He said with the increase in technology, the company has decided to push the boundries with graphics and things you can do in the game instead of focusing on story and other elements of that nature. Personally, with most of the FF fanbase being older and are the ones who tend to look for the nostalgic feeling that they had when they were 10 while playing FFVII, every game they produce from now on will be underwhelming in our eyes because we will never get that feeling we had when we finally got our golden chocobo and ran accross those mountains and oceans to finally get our knights of the round materia. As long as they continue to go in the direction they are going, every FF from now on will not be able to reach what we, as fans, and what the success they, as developers, would like. Here's the link to that interview. *******************************************************************************

Personally, if SE wants the console based games to be the successes they were on the PS1, they are going to need more ********* Amano and Nobuo Uematsu. Mr. Amano pretty much hit the nail on the head about why the series isn't what it used to be whether he meant to or not.
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#11 Oct 24 2012 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
catwho wrote:
Honestly? If I want to play XI, I'll play XI.


That's true: we don't need two MMOs like FFXI, that's redundant... we need 63 like WoW!

Edited, Oct 23rd 2012 11:04pm by KaneKitty


Runespider wrote:
I don't think anyone really believes FFXIV is going to be the wild success it needs to be to recover the money they spent on it, it won't even exceed what FFXI is now (that game that cost them 12million to create 10 years ago), let alone what it managed at peak.

However I don't think Square will shut the game down no matter how badly it does, that's something at least for people that like it.

Quote:
FFXI, despite it's many flaws had a great charm about it. It was unique, albeit in some ways that make most hardcore MMO players cringe. I , along with many other people, greatly enjoyed shouting for a <teleport - Altep> in lower Jeuno follwed by watching a senior white mage whisk me off to my destination. We enjoyed the airship rides, fishing off the ferry boats with friends, and having to actually search through the environment to find quest items and destinations. Did this take alot of time? Yes. Was it inconvenient sometimes? Definitely. But it certainly added a level of community, depth, and realism that you simply don't find in other games. That is, of course, only one of many things that made this game, with currently close to 500,000 players STILL SUBSCRIBED on a monthly basis, unique to say the least. I would be willing to bet however, that the majority of those players are not necessarily MMO players, but Final Fantasy players who, like me, enjoyed the particular way in which they served the generally bland MMO formula up to us


FFXI had 500k at peak, starvation of content and developers due to XIV it's now at or below 100k players. Probably quite a lot lower than 100k infact.



Edited, Oct 24th 2012 6:30am by Runespider


swisa wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:
Before you read any further I ask that you do (3) things.

(1) Don't be a fanboy. Fanboys who will play anything Square-Enix releases are what has allowed them to produce the slew of mediocre entries to the series for quite some time now.

(2) Recognize that I am not a troll, a hater, a Squarist, or any other odd term you might conjure up to otherwise state that I dislike the company. Every game I have played across any genre has been benchmarked against the likes of FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, FFXI and FFXII. In short, I love the Final Fantasy games.

(3) Remember that any reference to FFXI is used for comparison purposes only. FFXI was Square's Flagship MMO. Anything they make beyond that will be heavily compared and contrasted to that title in every possible manner by ANY former player who is deciding to give FFXIV 2.0 a try..

That being said, here is why I believe FFXIV 2.0 will fail, or at least not be nearly as successful as we would like it to be.

FFXI, despite it's many flaws had a great charm about it. It was unique, albeit in some ways that make most hardcore MMO players cringe. I , along with many other people, greatly enjoyed shouting for a <teleport - Altep> in lower Jeuno follwed by watching a senior white mage whisk me off to my destination. We enjoyed the airship rides, fishing off the ferry boats with friends, and having to actually search through the environment to find quest items and destinations. Did this take alot of time? Yes. Was it inconvenient sometimes? Definitely. But it certainly added a level of community, depth, and realism that you simply don't find in other games. That is, of course, only one of many things that made this game, with currently close to 500,000 players STILL SUBSCRIBED on a monthly basis, unique to say the least. I would be willing to bet however, that the majority of those players are not necessarily MMO players, but Final Fantasy players who, like me, enjoyed the particular way in which they served the generally bland MMO formula up to us.

FFXIV 2.0 is bent on modifying the system to be much closer to what that of the hardcore MMO player fanbase out there has come to expect. Everything is time sensitive now: Quests have clear markers telling you exactly (or nearly so) where to go to complete every step, Ferry and Airship rides will be instant, we will be able to zip around the world using our Anima being limited only by our overuse of it, and the tutorial will take you through the first 10 levels of play in what I have to assume is a very short amount of time. We won't have Chocobos, we'll have mounts. We won't have raise, people will ask "can you give me a rez." We won't inventory, we'll have bags. God only knows how long it will take before Gil gets traded for Gold, Silver, and Copper. While all of this is great for MMO gamers out there these changes are likely to turn off the longtime Fans of the series who will instead opt for offline titles, or stick with the ol' trusty FFXI. Okay, so what? With all the hardcore MMO players joining who cares if the longtime fans jump ship? Well there lies the 2nd half of this argument.

Because not only will it potentially alienate many of the longtime fans by getting rid of all those things that made the FFXI and offline titles of yesteryear so charming, but there will be nothing innovative or fresh enough or unique enough compared to the myriad of MMOs out there to hold a strong hardcore MMO player base. ****, SWTOR gave it a full-voiced over quest effort complete with the ability to play out scenes with your party. Nobody cared, they just skipped over it because it wastes valuable raiding time.

In short, many of the longtime fans won't find enough that is familiar to them to keep them engaged, while many of the new players Square hopes to attract (something they are banking on) will give it a shot, maybe play a trial given by their friend, and say "meh, " before heading back to WoW or Swtor or the upcoming Elder Scrolls Online.


...and before you push me down. I sincerely hope I'm wrong here.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2012 6:01pm by electromagnet83


I disagree. You are making way too many assumptions about a game we know very little about. Why would you automatically think a game is going to fail when the alpha testing has yet to start? They've again completely changed the battle system and nobody outside of SE has yes to actually play it. Yes they've described it, but impressions will most likely always be a little negative due to how the game started off. I also don't understand why people are comparing this to WoW. I see the similarity of the new version being more quest driven when leveling up. This will not stop you from grinding it out if you choose to. They didn't say it wouldn't be possible. They just said it wouldn't be the most efficient and fastest way.

"We won't have Chocobos, we'll have mounts."

Perhaps you're splitting hairs here. Does it really matter what they call the things we can climb on top of and ride to our destination? We WILL have chocobo's to ride. We will in addition to that have other things. Lot's of people like having a variety of creatures to ride. I know you've just recently started playing the game, so if you want a chocobo to ride when 2.0 comes out, make sure you're purchased your chocobo license from the grand company of your choosing.

"We won't have raise, people will ask "can you give me a rez." We won't inventory, we'll have bags. God only knows how long it will take before Gil gets traded for Gold, Silver, and Copper."

Who said we wont have raise? If you can find an article that says we can't do that, please show me. We wont have inventory? We'll have bags? Again, I feel like you're splitting hairs here. What some may call a bag in one part of the world, others may call inventory in another part of the world. They will never change gil to gold, silver, and copper. Gil has been the staple currency in Final Fantasy games since the very beginning. They've said that they are trying to make it more "Final Fantasyish." Why would they change something that is more FF than most anything else?

"Everything is time sensitive now"

You do realize that most people don't want to spend hours and hours sitting in the cities shouting to gather a party right? They are adding content for large groups. I could be wrong, but I've heard 24+ people. Think about how long that will take to gather people for... People want to play the game, not sit around town trying to make a party to play the game. This was one of the biggest complaints that people had with FFXI. They are only changing the game to meet most peoples expectations. If the game is too easy for you, then post your ides and issues on how to fix things on the lodestone. They will listen to people this time when the beta starts. They can't afford to ignore us again like Tanaka did.

Personally, I saw someone just yesterday shouting in Uldah for a teleport into mor dhona. Personally, I don't enjoy standing there shouting for a tele, but others may. They have said that they will be adding sky views of Eorzea when we ride the airships similar to what FFXI had. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure we can fish off the ferry. Granted we've only got the 1 and nobody ever rides it due to the convenience of teleporting, but I'm pretty sure it's there if you want to take part in that.

"produce the slew of mediocre entries to the series for quite some time now"

Yes, many people would agree with your statement here. I read an interview with Yosh*taka Amano and even he said that he has seen a dramatic change in the series ever since FFX. He said with the increase in technology, the company has decided to push the boundries with graphics and things you can do in the game instead of focusing on story and other elements of that nature. Personally, with most of the FF fanbase being older and are the ones who tend to look for the nostalgic feeling that they had when they were 10 while playing FFVII, every game they produce from now on will be underwhelming in our eyes because we will never get that feeling we had when we finally got our golden chocobo and ran accross those mountains and oceans to finally get our knights of the round materia. As long as they continue to go in the direction they are going, every FF from now on will not be able to reach what we, as fans, and what the success they, as developers, would like. Here's the link to that interview. http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/10/15/3505974/final-fantasy-yosh*taka-amano

Personally, if SE wants the console based games to be the successes they were on the PS1, they are going to need more Yosh*taka Amano and Nobuo Uematsu. Mr. Amano pretty much hit the nail on the head about why the series isn't what it used to be whether he meant to or not.



This could easily turn into a flame war but your thoughts were well put. I do hope that sky views are added into airships, but that's not what I read I believe. If I could find the article, a recent translation not only contradicts this but it was stated the ferry will now be instant travel just like the XIV airship. So in regards to that, I do not believe you correct as it looks like they are getting rid of any instanced travel sequences.

My comment regarding "mounts" and "bags" was simple. When you played FFXI people said "can I get a raise?" and "can I rent a chocobo?". But to the hardcore MMO crowd these things don't exist or matter. While the concepts exist in other games I always heard the same term regardless of MMO, "Can I get a REZ," or "Where's ur MOUNT". Point being that once again the players of FFXI made it unique whereas when the crowd Square aims to bring in finally lands we will be hearing such things as the latter constantly and that it would only be a matter of time before hardcore players (which I have talked to before) will inevitably say "WTF is GIL? Where's my Gold, copper, and silver?" because apparently, the concept of something similar to a Dollar is foreign to Hardcore MMO players.

In general I just really hope Square does not try to make things TOO much like all the other MMOs out there and will retain as much of the Uniqueness (ripoff from EQ or not) that XI had.


Edited, Oct 24th 2012 9:17am by electromagnet83
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#12 Oct 24 2012 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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As far as I remember when they added airships they said they are going to add the option to travel instantly or to actually see the journey and I haven't heard anything to the contrary since, but I haven't read every single article out there either I am sure.
#13 Oct 24 2012 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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I just wanna know how people are able to see into the future now-a-days. Seems like its a common super power that many forum posters have lately and I just wanna get in on the fun.

Also, your argument that familiarity for the hardcore FF fans will be gone could not be farther from the truth, or did you just ignore all the heaps of fan service they are adding too ARR. I'm sorry, tailspinning arguments based on semantics, wild speculation, and misinformation is not solid enough to say that a game is going to fail, but at least you gave it the old college try.

Edited, Oct 24th 2012 1:02pm by KadeMadina
#14 Oct 24 2012 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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KadeMadina wrote:
I just wanna know how people are able to see into the future now-a-days. Seems like its a common super power that many forum posters have lately and I just wanna get in on the fun.

Also, your argument that familiarity for the hardcore FF fans will be gone could not be farther from the truth, or did you just ignore all the heaps of fan service they are adding too ARR. I'm sorry, tailspinning arguments based on semantics, wild speculation, and misinformation is not solid enough to say that a game is going to fail, but at least you gave it the old college try.


To Kade, I've rated you up for summarizing this nicely.

To Electro, I would like to add that I believe your argument is entirely inconsistent. You start off by saying that SE games suck lately because they cater to their fan boys, like so:
electromagnet83 wrote:
Before you read any further I ask that you do (3) things.

(1) Don't be a fanboy. Fanboys who will play anything Square-Enix releases are what has allowed them to produce the slew of mediocre entries to the series for quite some time now.


And then you spend the rest of your argument saying FFXIV will fail because you don't think they've catered to their fan boys enough. Like so:

electromagnet83 wrote:
In short, many of the longtime fans won't find enough that is familiar to them to keep them engaged


I think you have to first decide whether you want something new, or a rehash of what's already been done before taking a stand about why FFXIV will fail for these reasons.
#15 Oct 24 2012 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:
KadeMadina wrote:
I just wanna know how people are able to see into the future now-a-days. Seems like its a common super power that many forum posters have lately and I just wanna get in on the fun.

Also, your argument that familiarity for the hardcore FF fans will be gone could not be farther from the truth, or did you just ignore all the heaps of fan service they are adding too ARR. I'm sorry, tailspinning arguments based on semantics, wild speculation, and misinformation is not solid enough to say that a game is going to fail, but at least you gave it the old college try.


To Kade, I've rated you up for summarizing this nicely.

To Electro, I would like to add that I believe your argument is entirely inconsistent. You start off by saying that SE games suck lately because they cater to their fan boys, like so:
electromagnet83 wrote:
Before you read any further I ask that you do (3) things.

(1) Don't be a fanboy. Fanboys who will play anything Square-Enix releases are what has allowed them to produce the slew of mediocre entries to the series for quite some time now.


And then you spend the rest of your argument saying FFXIV will fail because you don't think they've catered to their fan boys enough. Like so:

electromagnet83 wrote:
In short, many of the longtime fans won't find enough that is familiar to them to keep them engaged


I think you have to first decide whether you want something new, or a rehash of what's already been done before taking a stand about why FFXIV will fail for these reasons.



I think either you misunderstood that or I misstated it. Probably the latter. Allow me to restate.

Dont be a fanboy when reading the post and simply discount everything I say because you are the type who will play anything Square puts out regardless of quality. Now moving from there to the actual topic with that in mind.

Square is changing the formula to the point where most longtime fans might be turned off. They want to attract "MMO" players mostly. But the problem is that there isn't anything unique enough about FFXIV 2.0 (at least from what we've seen) to engage the hardcore MMO crowd and get them to agree to a monthly sub fee. So in short, there isn't enough to reel hardcore MMO players in, and it may simultaneously not be enough to engage the longtime FF fans, such as myself, who may be interested in a casual MMO if produced well by Square-Enix. All they are then left with are those few dedicated people who will play anything Square puts out, be it online, offline, MMO, or whatever. In other words, fanboys - the same ones left playing FFXIV 1.0. And an MMO won't survive with only a small dedicated group of players.


...it's sort of like the current way they couldn't really decide if FFXIV 1.0 was a controller-based game or a Key/mouse based game. As a result both were a bit off. It seems they are moving towards a bigger indecision. Do they want to appeal to Hardcore MMO players? or Final Fantasy Series fans? I think they may be catching this one somewhere in the middle really.



Edited, Oct 24th 2012 3:15pm by electromagnet83
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#16 Oct 24 2012 at 1:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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XI is also filled with tons of random references to earlier titles. ****, in the easter egg thread over there, I pointed out that the opening scene of FFIX is on one of the castle tapestries in XI.
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#17 Oct 24 2012 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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There are only a few of things about 2.0 worry me but many more things that sound excellent.

The things that worry me or I find distasteful are:

Map markers - Dots showing me where to go all the **** time. Give me an interesting quest and let the NPC describe to me where I need to go and what I need to do and let it go at that. Let the Journal entry record this information incase I forget what I am doing. No, I didn't like many of FFXI's quests where I had to go look up online where I was supposed to do and where I was supposed to go. But I don't want handholding either. Don't tell me it is modern and convenient, its just lazy.

The next 2 all depend on how they are implemented, it could be great or not:

Content finder - Stand around, queue up, get teleported to dungeon, run dungeon with strangers who don't even respond to me saying "Hi!" kill stuff, loot and return to standing around.

Quest based leveling - follow trail of NPC's with ? over their heads, do 100 kill x to get y and return for z. Rinse and repeat solo. Bonus points of badness if not being on the same quest chain prevents me from playing with a friend.

I had a **** of a good time in GW2 for a few days. It had the dot on the map and handholding but it all seemed such a casual type of game it didn't bother me all that much. But after reaching level 50 and discovering I had not added 1 person to my friends list that I didn't actually already know before I installed the game killed my happiness. I discovered I felt like I was playing alongside other players and not actually with them.

If ARR does not promote community I will probably not last long.

Edited, Oct 24th 2012 4:48pm by Yelta
#18 Oct 24 2012 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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Yelta wrote:
There are only a few of things about 2.0 worry me but many more things that sound excellent.

The things that worry me or I find distasteful are:

Map markers - Dots showing me where to go all the **** time. Give me an interesting quest and let the NPC describe to me where I need to go and what I need to do and let it go at that. Let the Journal entry record this information incase I forget what I am doing. No, I didn't like many of FFXI's quests where I had to go look up online where I was supposed to do and where I was supposed to go. But I don't want handholding either. Don't tell me it is modern and convenient, its just lazy.

The next 2 all depend on how they are implemented, it could be great or not:

Content finder - Stand around, queue up, get teleported to dungeon, run dungeon with strangers who don't even respond to me saying "Hi!" kill stuff, loot and return to standing around.

Quest based leveling - follow trail of NPC's with ? over their heads, do 100 kill x to get y and return for z. Rinse and repeat solo. Bonus points of badness if not being on the same quest chain prevents me from playing with a friend.

I had a **** of a good time in GW2 for a few days. It had the dot on the map and handholding but it all seemed such a casual type of game it didn't bother me all that much. But after reaching level 50 and discovering I had not added 1 person to my friends list that I didn't actually already know before I installed the game killed my happiness. I discovered I felt like I was playing alongside other players and not actually with them.

If ARR does not promote community I will probably not last long.

Edited, Oct 24th 2012 4:48pm by Yelta


That is actually a very good point. And one that I pointed out in my blog. Unfortunately the crowd they are trying to promote are the Hardcore MMO gamers where everything is time sensitive. Nobody wants to waste time trying to find out where something is, or looking for a party, or riding an airship, or traveling by foot. Everything IS ME ME ME< LOOT LOOT LOOT. It's not about story, or gameplay, or community. It's about getting in, getting my @#$%, and getting out as fast as possible.

At least that is the mentality of the players Square hopes to attract :)
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#19 Oct 24 2012 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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electromagnet83 wrote:


That is actually a very good point. And one that I pointed out in my blog. Unfortunately the crowd they are trying to promote are the Hardcore MMO gamers where everything is time sensitive. Nobody wants to waste time trying to find out where something is, or looking for a party, or riding an airship, or traveling by foot. Everything IS ME ME ME< LOOT LOOT LOOT. It's not about story, or gameplay, or community. It's about getting in, getting my @#$%, and getting out as fast as possible.

At least that is the mentality of the players Square hopes to attract :)


I see it the other way, it seems to me that they are trying to court the casual player with those changes. It's the "I don't have time to build a party and read the quest text to figure it out" crowd is who is usually screaming for things to be "modern and convenient".

But lets not get into the hardcore/casual argument in this thread. :D
#20 Oct 24 2012 at 3:41 PM Rating: Default
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I guess it could be seen from either side of the fence. I feel like the more casual gamer cares less about "getting things done" . While you could argue they want things to be done quicker and easier. I see the hardcore players are those that push for that more than casual. I consider myself a casual player. To me that means I have spare time to invest and am able to take things slower....aka more casually.
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#21 Oct 24 2012 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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SE is not courting the Hardcore "MMO" crowd, they are courting the casual "MMO" crowd. There is nothing in XIV currently or in the plans, that will make the hardcore crowd jump ship to this game, the hardcore crowd is interested in "End Game" content and 2.0 has no such things in the plans at release(Sure there will be some, but more likely the stuff we have already seen), SE is planing to add them at a later date, or am i mistaken ? If so please do correct me, i am under the assumption that is the way i described.

Also PvP will not be at release so that's another major thing that draws hardcore players, that will not be in the game when it hits stores.

As far as the fan service goes, as long as is not blatantly ripping off stuff from the main series, as they have done, and is very well done, with a new unique spin to it, i am all for it.
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#22 Oct 24 2012 at 5:35 PM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
SE is not courting the Hardcore "MMO" crowd, they are courting the casual "MMO" crowd. There is nothing in XIV currently or in the plans, that will make the hardcore crowd jump ship to this game, the hardcore crowd is interested in "End Game" content and 2.0 has no such things in the plans at release(Sure there will be some, but more likely the stuff we have already seen), SE is planing to add them at a later date, or am i mistaken ? If so please do correct me, i am under the assumption that is the way i described.

Also PvP will not be at release so that's another major thing that draws hardcore players, that will not be in the game when it hits stores.

As far as the fan service goes, as long as is not blatantly ripping off stuff from the main series, as they have done, and is very well done, with a new unique spin to it, i am all for it.


I am not sure actually if they have end-game planned. But , I mean. Considering XIV has been out for 2 years and most of us are already level 50....what will we do? Do they expect that we would be satisfied in the meantime simply re-leveling up other jobs/characters? In my opinion that would make this not Final Fantasy XIV 2.0 but rather Final Fantasy XV.
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#23 Oct 24 2012 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
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End game in ARR has been indirectly addressd. Yes there are things planned for launch that have only been vaguely hinted at but something solid has been said about it all. The only thing that the current primal fights and dungeons will share with their 2.0 counterparts is literally their names. Everything has been completely redesigned so these dungeons and primal fights will only vaguely resemble each other. They've already said that the way we've learned to clear endgame content as far as strategies and party set-ups will not work anymore because everything has been redesigned. Also raid content is still slated as "launch window content."
#24 Oct 24 2012 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
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Good post with understandable concerns.

However, I think this leans too much on assuming knowledge rather than basing it off of what we've seen. I also don't feel an overwhelming need to dispute any of your point as I feel they rely too heavily on slippery slope arguments. Bags becoming inventory and chocobos becoming mounts I don't think are examples that indicate a shift from hardcore to casual but rather their just terms that have very little to do with any substance.

I think the real gist of everyones concerns is the "popularization" of many of the features from 11 to 14 to ARR. And this is what I feel so necessary to address.

FF11 was an mmo I played when I was 13 and had tons of time to waste on it. Though none of what I remember about 11 or what made 11 the best MMO I've ever played had anything to do with the combat, the leveling system or the terminology for how things were or what things were called. What made 11 such a fantastic MMO was the sense of adventure it gave the players. The distance between cities made going from one to the other an "adventure." The highlights for me were my first time enter Valkurm and really seeing the density of the player population, hitting 20 and having to take that struggled run to Jueno while dodging monsters that could kill me in one blow. Getting my airship pass for the first time or taking the boat and being attacked by pirates.

The things I don't remember fondly and the things that have prevented me from re-entering 11 were the leveling system, sitting in Jeuno for 4-6 hours trying to wrangle a party together as a Samurai. But ultimately what kept me in the game wasn't the quests, or the way in which I leveled, or how I approached combat. What kept me paying and playing that game was the paragraph above. The game imbued within my a great sense of adventure and attachment to my character within the universe. And it is something that no other game has replicated.

That said, I really think ARR is the game that can do that. The zones look more dense, the world looks richer and the multiple approaches to how I will explore, level and move through the universe seems exciting. No one has any idea how big ARR will be and how long it will take to travel from City A to City B and where you'll get lost in-between on your adventure.

But from everything I've seen, especially in comparison to how hard 14 failed on each of level of immersion, shows to me that this will be a game with the potential to draw people in to its universe. On a personal note, the thing I'm most excited about currently is the Golden Saucer. I see so much potential there in having something really breathable and unique within this universe. Something that will draw tons of people to come specifically to Ul'dah. And to me that's the kind of stuff that makes an MMO great, not bags, mounts, gil or gold. It's the little things that do a lot.
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#25 Oct 24 2012 at 11:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dunno what to say to this thread.

I've always thought that 14 would be a great game if it met us halfway between wow and 11. I liked both games for entirely different reasons, and if 2.0 would give us a "best of both" scenario, I'd be willing to quit my job and dump my girlfriend. Or not, maybe I'd just eat more meals at my desk.
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#26 Oct 25 2012 at 6:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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I completely disagree.

14 is not XI 2.0 and it shouldn't be.


XI is not friendly to people with short playtimes, which is where the majority of people who grew up with MMOs are headed. In the time of XI, I was in college, others in HS. Well, it's been 10 years and we have jobs and families and can't spend 6 hours shouting for a party or running a complex event uninterrupted.

I can in 14. I can jump in, do ifrit for 20 minutes, have 15 minutes downtime, repeat. I can just run leves at my own pace, or (in 2.0) use the content finder when I do get a larger time block and immediately find something to do.


And for SE, this makes financial sense. They have an established based in XI, and it's the most profitable Final Fantasy, so they should not cut players from their own market, but try to get a share of the mainstream mmo market.
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#27 Oct 25 2012 at 6:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Double Post

Edited, Oct 25th 2012 8:56am by Louiscool
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#28 Oct 25 2012 at 7:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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One of FFXI's greatest flaws was that there was no easy way of matching a group together. An event that took half an hour could take 6+ because of this. Then add in stupid complicated variables as needing to be on a certain mission, floor on Nyzul, everyone can lot everything, hideously low drop rates and the number of potentional party members drops through the floor.
#29 Oct 25 2012 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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I understand having lots of content that can be easily pugged, started and completed in 30 minute chunks (or so) but there better be something I can do for 6 hours twice a week without repeating that short stuff 12 times a night... There better be a few things that take longer to complete. It sounds like crystal tower might be what I am asking for but hopefully there will be more.

I also want stuff that simply cannot be completed in any random pug. Something that takes actual coordination and teamwork.
#30 Oct 25 2012 at 10:14 AM Rating: Default
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Solonuke wrote:
One of FFXI's greatest flaws was that there was no easy way of matching a group together. An event that took half an hour could take 6+ because of this. Then add in stupid complicated variables as needing to be on a certain mission, floor on Nyzul, everyone can lot everything, hideously low drop rates and the number of potentional party members drops through the floor.



Yea the party matching sucked in XI. I guess what I wanted overall was a newer version of Xi that retained all the immersive features described in Frosty's post above but with some of the things like you described, corrected. Even in 1.0 I'm having a tought time getting a party. Now granted, I've only been playing it for 1.2 months so trying to get a group together for mid-range grand company missions 2 weeks before shutdown obviously isn't going to be easy but it sucks nonetheless. Not to mention 1.0's search/recruit/party finder/ add function is aweful. WTF is pcmd add "name". My god how complicated can you make it for me to simply add a player to my party? Or if I want to add someone to my friend list who is standing right in front of me why can't I just click them and click "add to friend list"???
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#31 Oct 26 2012 at 4:11 AM Rating: Good
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A good mix of content will be key to their success, regular content for Jose and his crew of casuals, and then some more difficult content for Pedro and his band of hardcore players, i personally would like an aproach more akin to what Blizzard did in the burning crusade. As long as they dont go overboard with 0.1% drops and gating content, is all good in my book :P
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#32 Oct 26 2012 at 6:27 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
A good mix of content will be key to their success, regular content for Jose and his crew of casuals, and then some more difficult content for Pedro and his band of hardcore players, i personally would like an aproach more akin to what Blizzard did in the burning crusade. As long as they dont go overboard with 0.1% drops and gating content, is all good in my book :P



I agree with this wholeheartedly, a good mix is the best way of doing it.
#33 Oct 26 2012 at 4:44 PM Rating: Good
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this just in: FFXIV will be more like modern MMOs and less like old MMOs.


thats what your post should have been titled.


im not sure what i just read. it seems like OP is worried that 2.0 will be too "WoW-y", but his main concerns seem to be naming conventions and travel times. idk. i dont see "rez" suddenly becoming a thing, and wouldnt really give 2 @#%^s if it did.

now this bit:
Quote:
Square is changing the formula to the point where most longtime fans might be turned off. They want to attract "MMO" players mostly. But the problem is that there isn't anything unique enough about FFXIV 2.0 (at least from what we've seen) to engage the hardcore MMO crowd and get them to agree to a monthly sub fee. So in short, there isn't enough to reel hardcore MMO players in, and it may simultaneously not be enough to engage the longtime FF fans, such as myself, who may be interested in a casual MMO if produced well by Square-Enix. All they are then left with are those few dedicated people who will play anything Square puts out, be it online, offline, MMO, or whatever. In other words, fanboys - the same ones left playing FFXIV 1.0. And an MMO won't survive with only a small dedicated group of players.


...it's sort of like the current way they couldn't really decide if FFXIV 1.0 was a controller-based game or a Key/mouse based game. As a result both were a bit off. It seems they are moving towards a bigger indecision. Do they want to appeal to Hardcore MMO players? or Final Fantasy Series fans? I think they may be catching this one somewhere in the middle really.


i feel this is actually a valid concern. tbh most "hardcore mmoers" are not going to touch 2.0 regardless of how it turns out. the only way i see 2.0 bringing in large numbers of players from outside the ff fanbase is with stellar pvp.

but realistically, 2.0 players will be made up almost entirely of: current xiv players, returning xiv players who quit, annd current XI players. unless they go on some epic ad campagin that really shows their product to be something new, different, and better.


sometimes i wish they had just released the original xiv but on a new engine. it would have been interesting to see how that played out. at least it was a different game than everything on the market. most people think it failed for trying to be different, but mostly it failed for having a crap engine and interface. look at how many successful games since have used similar "unique" game mechanics. they just implemented them better.


Edited, Oct 26th 2012 6:57pm by Llester

Edited, Oct 26th 2012 7:02pm by Llester
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#34 Oct 27 2012 at 7:06 AM Rating: Default
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Go me, this post is now the number 3 google search result when you search "Final Fantasy XIV 2.0". I actually feel kind of bad now because, believe it or not, I sincerely hope this game does well. Now when people search for it the #3 Google result is "Why Final Fantasy XIV 2.0 Will Fail".
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#35 Oct 27 2012 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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two things I have to mention:
1. $%&@ you OP for showing me that there is going to be an MMO for Elder Scrolls... I had no clue they were planning it (I'm getting old I guess lol) and after sinking so much time into the series it is going to be hard to resist to playing the MMO :P

2. I don't think there will be much to worry about when it comes to v2.0 losing its FF feel. It has nothing to do with the game, but more to do with the audience. There were tons of people in FFXI that refered to chocobos as mounts, or called things by terms that the FF community didn't. It will take its own turn and develop its own culture (should it last long enough). What I see them focusing on is fixing the broken fundamentals, the core of the game that pushed people away. The game still has a great FF feel to it, but things like server lag and repetative environments tok away from the shock and awe factor the game could have had.

From recent gameplay footage and screenshots, it appears that they are fixing the mechanical issues behind the game, but it is still painted with the FF flavor that we are all hoping for. I am really looking forward to seeing the new engine in action, and to explore the new maps... to see the game that should have come out 2 years ago. I tossed in the towel when they pushed ahead with the release even though the entire testing community said the game wasn't ready. They have won my atention and a shot at a second chance. I think they know that if they blow this opportunity, a lot of them will not be employable anytime in the near future.... they have spent a lot of resources on this, so they better hope they have polished product that will attract both new and old players alike.
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#36 Oct 28 2012 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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#37 Oct 28 2012 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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And characters for toons.



#38 Oct 28 2012 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
Go me, this post is now the number 3 google search result when you search "Final Fantasy XIV 2.0". I actually feel kind of bad now because, believe it or not, I sincerely hope this game does well. Now when people search for it the #3 Google result is "Why Final Fantasy XIV 2.0 Will Fail".


I didn't see it come up when I search 'Final Fantasy XIV 2.0'. Google tailors its search results based on your browsing history, so it could be that causing it to rise in your results.
#39 Oct 28 2012 at 7:18 PM Rating: Default
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OnyxFFXI wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:
Go me, this post is now the number 3 google search result when you search "Final Fantasy XIV 2.0". I actually feel kind of bad now because, believe it or not, I sincerely hope this game does well. Now when people search for it the #3 Google result is "Why Final Fantasy XIV 2.0 Will Fail".


I didn't see it come up when I search 'Final Fantasy XIV 2.0'. Google tailors its search results based on your browsing history, so it could be that causing it to rise in your results.


Maybe. I always sort google by "last 24 hours" as well.
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#40 Oct 28 2012 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
catwho wrote:
Honestly? If I want to play XI, I'll play XI.


That's true: we don't need two MMOs like FFXI, that's redundant... we need 63 like WoW!

Edited, Oct 23rd 2012 11:04pm by KaneKitty



Well said!
#41 Oct 28 2012 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
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digitalcraft wrote:
If people call damage dealers "DPS" I'm going to punch kittens.


already happens lol. the toon thing too, though thankfully not as often.


im ok with the deeps tho. i mean, our weapons already have a DPS stat on them so....cant really argue that.

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#42 Oct 28 2012 at 11:12 PM Rating: Good
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Solonuke wrote:
And characters for toons.


Short rant ahead:

Character makes sense: the word refers to a person represented in a play/fantasy/game/etc.

Avatar makes sense: it refers to something that is the embodiment of someone else.

Toon is nonsense: it's a truncation of "cartoon," which refers to a sketch or drawing of something, from the Italian word for hard paper. It very likely came into use because of WoW's "cartoon" graphics: hence, "I'm making a 'toon." Because of that, it really only makes some sense when confined to WoW and, even then, is technically inferior to the above options, given the circumstances.
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#43 Oct 29 2012 at 4:08 AM Rating: Good
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If what another person calls something bothers you or really gives you issues..... Head outside more often. As long as the person can carry his own weight in a fight or an event, i do not care what he calls his character, or what he does Smiley: lol
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#44 Oct 29 2012 at 2:41 PM Rating: Default
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I really don't understand people being bothered by 'toon' anyway. From what I gather, most people don't like the idea of being linked to something that people might see as kiddie. We're playing a game with cute, cuddly moogles and cat people... let's not kid ourselves(pun intended).
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#45 Oct 29 2012 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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When I played UO the little diagram where you equipped your gear was called a paper doll. lol
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#46 Oct 29 2012 at 4:35 PM Rating: Default
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Solonuke wrote:

And characters for toons.






When I saw people calling characters "toons" in XIV I really just wanted to quit! I never heard that ONE TIME playing XI for years and years... and then when XIV came I heard everyone saying it!
#47 Oct 30 2012 at 3:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally I think that a huge piece of the puzzle is missing here. People keep talking about XI players as well as hardcore and casual MMO players but isn't that kind of missing the point?

Square-Enix has a fanbase of their own, and a huge one at that, consisting of millions of people that do not fit in to any of the categories listed above. Why is it being excluded? Most FFXI players were once people like these, and even most WoW players were like that once. Neither SE nor Blizzard limited their demographic to simply existing MMO players, and I don't see what sense does it make to do it now.

Yoshida himself has stated several times that this game is being marketed and identified as a Final Fantasy game first, an MMO second. This makes sense considering the above.

I also find it a bit odd to categorise the current MMO landscape as some special entity catering to the hardcore MMO crowd because of characteristics like these:

Quote:
Everything is time sensitive now: Quests have clear markers telling you exactly (or nearly so) where to go to complete every step, Ferry and Airship rides will be instant, we will be able to zip around the world using our Anima being limited only by our overuse of it, and the tutorial will take you through the first 10 levels of play in what I have to assume is a very short amount of time.


When I look at the gaming industry of today as a whole, the message is similar. Hardcore or casual, MMO players, FPS players or RPG players, the same can be applied to pretty much every genre.

So, unless the millions of Final Fantasy fans worldwide have an issue with how gaming has evolved as a whole, I don't think this will make or break any FF fan's desire to play A Realm Reborn. I would go as far as to say that the closer Yoshida & co. can get to making this game resemble a constantly evolving single player Final Fantasy (which they're trying their hardest to do with all the fanservice going on + the graphics are pleasing to the eye, as should be for a Final Fantasy) the better off they will be in making sure as many people of their main demographic as possible will give it a try.
#48 Oct 30 2012 at 5:53 AM Rating: Good
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Whether 2.0 will fail or not, it's worth a shot.
1.XX was an unplayable mess that was irresponsible to be released in the first place.

Even though 2.0 will come much closer to modern MMORPGs and have "ease of use" features in the game it will definately be something more _playable_ than 1.XX ever was. This said I personally think that 2.0 is worth a shot and they are definately going in a direction that could pull new players to the game while still keeping hold of their roots.

This thread is guesswork, nobody knows how ARR will fare, especially since there's very little actual information about it.
Come back in 2-3months when the new version has been out for awhile and post "2.0 failed."
#49 Oct 30 2012 at 8:55 AM Rating: Default
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GoldenArrow wrote:
Whether 2.0 will fail or not, it's worth a shot.
1.XX was an unplayable mess that was irresponsible to be released in the first place.

Even though 2.0 will come much closer to modern MMORPGs and have "ease of use" features in the game it will definately be something more _playable_ than 1.XX ever was. This said I personally think that 2.0 is worth a shot and they are definately going in a direction that could pull new players to the game while still keeping hold of their roots.

This thread is guesswork, nobody knows how ARR will fare, especially since there's very little actual information about it.
Come back in 2-3months when the new version has been out for awhile and post "2.0 failed."


Well of course 3 months after launch anyone would be able to say whether it failed or not. This is a predictive thread :)
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#50 Oct 30 2012 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
GoldenArrow wrote:
Whether 2.0 will fail or not, it's worth a shot.
1.XX was an unplayable mess that was irresponsible to be released in the first place.

Even though 2.0 will come much closer to modern MMORPGs and have "ease of use" features in the game it will definately be something more _playable_ than 1.XX ever was. This said I personally think that 2.0 is worth a shot and they are definately going in a direction that could pull new players to the game while still keeping hold of their roots.

This thread is guesswork, nobody knows how ARR will fare, especially since there's very little actual information about it.
Come back in 2-3months when the new version has been out for awhile and post "2.0 failed."


Well of course 3 months after launch anyone would be able to say whether it failed or not. This is a useless thread :)



ftfy
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#51 Oct 31 2012 at 1:46 AM Rating: Good
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the reason this game will fail again in my honest opinion is the fact they are trying to "WoW" the crap out of the game and influences to "standards" which is the complete opposite they should do.

i caught a nice post on mmorpg.com:

According to an interview with Naoki Yoshida, the director and producer of FFXIV ARR, the new game will be a WoW clone.  When the original FFXIV was being released a couple years ago the director of that game said that they were using WoW as their model of success.  This is amazing. 
 
  
 
BM: Final Fantasy XI just had its ten year anniversary and it got a new expansion coming up. You talked about educating the development team at what the standard is at a west MMOs, so with an eye of Final Fantasy XI that is hugely successful, what did they get right what Final Fantasy XIV wasn’t doing? 
 
Yoshida: One of the reasons why Final Fantasy XI was so successful was that the whole development team went and played Everquest and they thought “Okay, we want to do exactly what they did with Final Fantasy XI!” You know there were times where you couldn’t contact any of them because of how much they played *laughs*, but because they did that they had a direction. One of the problems with Final Fantasy XIV was that there wasn’t that direction, they didn’t know what the standard was and they never played World of Warcraft, they didn’t know enough and because they didn’t know enough they couldn’t build something up to the standards of current MMOs. Plus when they started creating Final Fantasy XI there was Final Fantasy X that strongly influenced them. 
 
With Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn we don’t want to create many new things, we first want to start of getting this global standard and then adding that Final Fantasy feel. We want to get the crystal tower in and the gold soucer to get that epic Final Fantasy feeling. 
 
http://jpgames.de/2012/08/gamescom-2012-our-interview-with-naoki-yoshida/ 
 
 



this game will get hype on release day be played for a few weeks or month and then the same people who want wow clones will leave and find something else. The reason i played ff11 back in the days was the fact it encouraged teamwork/hunting/exploring and felt like a actual rpg and endless quest and adventure and not the standard for today of "endgame only mentality/everything handed to you in a silver platter without effort/soloable game/etc "WoW"

i hope i am wrong.
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