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#1 Oct 27 2012 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
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So... I have actually been looking at classic jobs and am actually... very worried. Bard gets like... 3 buffs and one damage skill. Wtf? Its basically useless. Whm only gets 2 healing spells? One i am guessing is single target and the other AOE? Again... crappy... These classes can hardly be what they are supposed to be with so limited skills... even building off of other classes their selection sucks for that job.

I am really hoping SE implements a good variety of skills for us to use. I want Bard to be able to be an awesome buffer/debuffer in groups... not a passive buffer who uses archer skills 95% of the time, then casts its 3 friggin buffs it has when needed just to go back to dps... UGH! RUINED!
#2 Oct 28 2012 at 1:16 AM Rating: Good
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I'm fairly certain that no one at this time knows the changes being made (if any) to the jobs/classes. Also it seems a little early (or too late depending on how you look at it) to be worrying about the effectiveness and play-style of certain jobs.
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#3 Oct 28 2012 at 1:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Well they best be making each job more dynamic and interesting... I mean seriously "Woo I am finally a bard! That means I am an archer with 4 bonus skills!" They should be completely stand alone job that can draw on its basic archer skills... Not Dependent on archer skills with a little bonus :(
#4 Oct 28 2012 at 2:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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You're in for disappointment, then. You're treating BRD and ARC as two distinct jobs. They're not. Bard is a stance of Archer. That's not to say that I don't agree with you that Bard should have more abilities. I do, but Bard is Archer with songs.
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#5 Oct 28 2012 at 3:38 AM Rating: Good
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lol mmmk... that kinda sucks... But ok, we have to use archer skills, but now is it too much to ask that we get a good variety of songs instead of 3 lol??
#6 Oct 28 2012 at 6:40 AM Rating: Good
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I agree that this class/job system makes no sense its like a very limited version of XIs subjob system that has gone retarted. I like the basc idea but they way they did it was not very well thought out and I hope they at least do something to make it less stupid.

Edited, Oct 28th 2012 8:42am by ScaryTrees
#7 Oct 28 2012 at 10:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've never liked the Class/Job system, either. It's counter-intuitive and somewhat contradictory at its heart, and also not very fun, either. :P

Let me elaborate: the greatest amount of "identity" - that is, from classic jobs with recognizable equipment - comes in the form of a tiny smattering of skills and additional ability restrictions. That's just strange: playing these recognizable jobs is so minimalist that they're almost not even themselves recognizable. Why am I wearing special armour for a job that doesn't even get half a dozen abilities? If I'm a bard now, why am I barely distinguishable from an archer?

It raises other questions, too. If we only level classes, and not jobs, then how is this game going to have any longevity once everyone's capped the 2-3 classes they like? Is SE just going to keep implementing jobs, with players never having to level again, or is SE going to continue making new classes, effectively negating the point of jobs in the first place? Unfortunately, since they've already confirmed one new class and its one job, we see that SE is committed to this bizarre system they've made for themselves.

The job system was a slap-dash measure to inject some "Final Fantasy" into the smouldering pile that was FFXIV's initial release, and it shows. It's a mildly confusing and poorly designed effort that's stacked right on top of a related, but different, class system. Like many things in this game, it accomplishes its purpose to a degree, but it's really sub-optimal at best. It was the most SE could do while doing the least, if you understand my meaning.
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#8 Oct 29 2012 at 10:41 AM Rating: Default
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SE already confirm that all of the classes/jobs will have adjustments for ARR, Pugilist/Monk been the one with the most changes. Since SE had to re-do XIV from the ground up, don't expect great changes to the classes. Have you consider that the reason jobs don't have that many skills at these moment is because of the future level cap.

The biggest problem with what you guys want out of the current classes is that when ARR comes out, you have to think of as a brand new game that a big group of people is not a zero. So I imagen that SE has plans for the Jobs but they cannot be implemented just yet.
#9 Oct 29 2012 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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FedeMax... There is a big difference between having a lower amount of skills due to low level cap and having hardly any at all. Lets say you become a bard... You are identified as a bard, bard should be a whole new thing all on its own... But it is not. You get 4 freekin skills from level 30 to 50. Unacceptable. When bard is supposed to be a huge buff/debuff/support class and you get 2 songs to play to "buff" your group? No... Same goes for every other class. So NO! We shouldn't be content with the current skill selection for classic jobs until level cap rises. They need to expand greatly on whats there, then when level cap does rise add more! I can only pray that with complete rework of XIV they rebuilt classic jobs and made them more what they are supposed to be... I read an interview thing where they even said they are not all that interested in making "new" jobs and classes at the moment... They want to give players the classic jobs they have come to love and are familiar with.

Sorry, I am familiar with Final Fantasy bards, but the one in XIV is just not anything like a final fantasy bard.

And you know what... I am ok with job innovation. Shake things up and make them slightly different and unique... But They NEED to let the classic jobs be stand alone. Give them the wide range of skills they need. PLEASE SE

Edited, Oct 29th 2012 2:47pm by Banwawgwa
#10 Oct 29 2012 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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To compare, a bard in FFXI has around 40 songs by level 50.
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#11 Oct 29 2012 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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Lol exactly! Of both enfeebling and buffing variety! I was so excited for XIV bard but now am hurt by the crap SE took on it :'(
#12 Oct 29 2012 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
To compare, a bard in FFXI has around 40 songs by level 50.

...Of which it used 4-5 of :P

All joking aside, I think they need to add more skills/spells and make the system in a way that allows you to customize your character a little more. Sinking random stats into individual jobs seems a little redundant when you have 2 main attributes that things are based off of. I liked it better when you had to pick where to use points and it balanced across off the classes... so if you went STR crazy, you'd have a harder time playing a mage class. I think they need to go back to this to allow for some diversity and specialization to help balance the boring class/job system them implemented.

It would also be nice to be given a point system to boost your skills instead of just getting a more powerful/higher MP cost spell to cast. Having to decide whether you want to max out curing, or have a stronger defence bonus to stoneskin or protect, would make for more interesting builds.

For all we know, SE has this planned, or has some other wacky scheme up their sleves. I am just hoping that they give the class/job system a really good makeover... I have fun playing the jobs I have, but I agree that it doesn't offer much in the way of diversity or interest in the long run.
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#13 Oct 29 2012 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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My solution would be every class should be its own class from 1-50 or just eliminate the hybrid jobs that started FFXIV Gladiator just make it a WAR and scrap it, whats the point of hybrid jobs then to just give you a couple skills that would have been on the original jobs to begin with.

Edited, Oct 29th 2012 4:36pm by dnalloh1987
#14 Oct 29 2012 at 3:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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ScaryTrees wrote:
Do something to make it less stupid.

Pages and pages of criticisms & ideas for the original XIV & ARR, but ScaryTrees sums it up nicely.
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#15 Oct 29 2012 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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Is there a way to delete this? Sorry.

Edited, Oct 29th 2012 2:41pm by Nainz
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#16 Oct 30 2012 at 7:18 AM Rating: Decent
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i seem to remember SE saying the jobs would be quest based for skills ? If so they can add more skills easily in ARR.

I admit the current skill set is small but its easy to expand on
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#17 Oct 30 2012 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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That is why, like I said before SE has confirm that they are going to rebalance the classes that includes the jobs. The current jobs was something SE put there real quick at the request of the current player base of a more FF feel classes. They don't have that many skills because it was a quick fix to please the community.

We just have to wait until open beta to see most of the changes to the current skills. I don't think that Bard will get 30-40 skills like in FFXI but probably more than 4. Plus you have to understand that the jobs are a extension of the classes not a class on their own. I personally think that putting Bard with Archer was a stupid thing to do by SE but it is done and it is not going to change. Plus if you have read the letters from the producers Bard is a DD/support class, the buff/defuff is going to be the arcanist/summoner class. That is why Bard can equip skills from Conjure like cure, stonesking, etc. FFXIV will not get the Bard from XI.

RPGamer Interview

MAC: How has the incorporation of new jobs since the 1.21 patch been working? How are you looking to move forward with new jobs from here? More from FFXI or completely original ones?
NY: We're trying our best to create jobs while keeping the traditions of the Final Fantasy series in mind. This includes looking into bringing back jobs from previous titles such as summoner, thief, ninja, samurai, and red mage. Rather than obsessing over originality, we want XIV's jobs to evoke a true Final Fantasy feel while remaining balanced within XIV's battle system.

MAC: Since these are all existing jobs in Final Fantasy XI, how are you looking to make them different? How about the same?
NY: We aren't setting out to radically change jobs just for the sake of being different. Having said that, the battle systems of XI and XIV are completely different entities. Our focus is on implementing jobs to adequately fit roles in XIV's battle system.


Edited, Oct 30th 2012 10:25am by FedeMax
#18 Oct 30 2012 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think the "stance" basis for the classic jobs is actually a good way of looking at it, it just needs to go a step further.

Say, CNJ can flip over to WHM for pure healing, but then in reverse flip over to SMN, to "conjure up" elemental avatars. Or THM can flip to BLM for a pure nuking stance, or over to RDM to gain access to unique support abilities and debuffs. Archer can go BRD to act as a support job, or then over to RNG (w/e) for access to magitek guns.

What makes XIV's system superior to FFXI is that you can change jobs on the fly, something that no one in FFXI can do without running back to a town. The closest we ever got in FFXI was scholar's ability to change from Light Arts (healer) to Dark Arts (nuker) once a minute.
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#19 Oct 30 2012 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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Haha I suppose I just have to have faith that they do tremendous fixing and implementing new skills now that they had time to work them out as opposed to their "quick fix" sloppy job. But I understand that the classic jobs are extension of the new ones, and I don't expect 40-50 songs or whatnot for bard or whoever, I just want a wider range of skills. Make it worth my while to do the friggin bard quest and be a bard lol.
#20 Oct 30 2012 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I do expect to see some good changes on the skills for each class. It is no fun to be a BLM and only hit 3 bottons most of the fight and just have a rinse and repeat type deal. With the double row of skill in PC and the 16 skills slots for PS3, I hope to see a better list of choices when ARR comes out.
#21 Oct 31 2012 at 5:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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FedeMax wrote:
I do expect to see some good changes on the skills for each class. It is no fun to be a BLM and only hit 3 bottons most of the fight and just have a rinse and repeat type deal. With the double row of skill in PC and the 16 skills slots for PS3, I hope to see a better list of choices when ARR comes out.


I think you touched on the root of the problem. The whole battle system needs rebalancing and overhauling. In most full party engagements (v1.0), excluding boss battles, you are lucky if you can use even 1 ability before the monster dies. Thus in my humble opinion, there is little point to having tons of abilities. The new limit break system has me excited but without rebalancing the battle system there will be little hope anyone can actually execute a limit break. The monsters just die to fast and battles are too short. By the time most characters have executed even 1 ability they have to re-target and start all over. It really makes party play more frustrating than fun. From what I’ve been reading it sounds like Yoshi wants to speed up the pace even more. If by that he means that recast timers will be shorter he may be on to something but the whole system needs work. Please don’t mis-understand, I’m all for diversifying and increasing the number of abilities given to each class/job but there is still much work to be done before I see the battle system as a stand alone complete system.
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#22 Oct 31 2012 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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Lol thats why support classes are awesome! If they give them more skills, it doesn't matter how fast monsters die... they just cast heals and buffs and party that can be used for multiple fights! Hahaha but in all seriousness. Yeah, I wish they could release some info on how this will play out seeing as testing is getting really close. I just wanna know if they solved any problems or not lol. I honestly don't know how interested ill be in the game if jobs suck hard like they do now... :(
#23 Oct 31 2012 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
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ALSO! I hope client is better. Better in regards to anti virus lol. I cannot even run virus scan with current XIV client installed. My anti virus moves nicely through all my files till it hits XIV then its like a brick wall. It will start XIV folders, I will leave... 2 hours later come back oops still on XIV folders. WTF!? My antivirus should really only take 45ish minutes at most. So I am currently trying to uninstall and ah dang, gotta check the gazillion files in the folders forever, then delete them forever. It is interesting because no other game is this much of a pain... Not even larger ones like TERA or SWTOR. So idk what they did with this file, but yeah... its a problem.
#24 Oct 31 2012 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Banwawgwa wrote:
So... I have actually been looking at classic jobs and am actually... very worried. Bard gets like... 3 buffs and one damage skill. Wtf? Its basically useless. Whm only gets 2 healing spells? One i am guessing is single target and the other AOE? Again... crappy... These classes can hardly be what they are supposed to be with so limited skills... even building off of other classes their selection sucks for that job.

I am really hoping SE implements a good variety of skills for us to use. I want Bard to be able to be an awesome buffer/debuffer in groups... not a passive buffer who uses archer skills 95% of the time, then casts its 3 friggin buffs it has when needed just to go back to dps... UGH! RUINED!


Many innacuries in your post.

1) Bard is an archer. They had BETTER not change that, because the players who started as archer suddenly had to live with the knowledge of being a support DD, when previously, we were the top dog kings of dd. The strategy for all fights was "we need more archer".

If we step into 2.0 and are suddenly FULL support, there will be a rage of epic proportions.

2) The number of buffs is on the low side, due to limitations in the job system, only granting 5 total abilities. That will change when the level cap rises, but hopefully it changes sooner, because I agree that if I'm going to support, I want more options. What you are neglecting is Bard is the only DD with access to healing abilities and buffs. As Bard you can deal dmg, cast cure. curaga (every minute), protect, stoneskin, raise, and then refresh your own MP with a song.

3) Whm has Cure, Cura, Curaga, and Regen. It is more than enough and it is actually very fun to play compared to Whm in FFXI. Whm has great aoe dmg spells as well, and is quite an active class and feels very much White Mage.

4) Bard will never be a debuffer. That is Arcanist and their DoT magic. As bard, you are actually quite active if you want to be a good bard. You can only have 1 song up, so 3 songs on a 3 minute timer is more than enough. Sing to the mages, run and sing to the melees, runs back, do a combo or two, sing again.

Edited, Oct 31st 2012 6:27pm by Louiscool
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#25 Nov 01 2012 at 1:18 AM Rating: Decent
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no... only 2 songs kiiinda sucks. I want a variety to fit many occasions. Mages need mana regen, ok cast that this round, now they have mana they need spell power boost ok give em that. Melee players need haste, or maybe they need accuracy? Not just one song for each group. lame.

And to argue against your first point. If you don't want to be full support (if that is what they make bard) DON'T BECOME A BARD AND STAY FRIGGIN ARCHER. lol it is really that simple... Bard can stay using a bow/harp thing and rely solely on bow skills. I like the fact that XIV bard actually has damage capabilities and they should keep that. I just want a fun variety of buffs that will make being a bard FUN and not "ok, now to rotate these three buttons. Woo... livin the life." And ok, arcanist gets debuffer role. Fine they can have it. They just need to all around fix job system like I have said over and over in this thread by offering variety of skills to be their own job, not completely reliant on previous one.
#26 Nov 01 2012 at 9:41 AM Rating: Decent
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I just think you're looking at it with these rosy glasses wanting FFXI 2.0.

It would be silly to stay archer. I lose out of TP Regen or Acc +, any af gear I want to use, and one of my main combos for DD. Barcher has a nice fit in FFXIV. One is wanted in every party, and it's one of the few hybrid classes. It's an original Hybrid as well. It's rare to play a DD/Support/Backup Healer.

And we have 4 song buffs, fyi. Refresh, TP Regen, Acc, and Swift movement. It would be nice if Swiftsong had a use in battle though, as haste.

FULL support bard is BORING. It's so boring that in FFXI, it was the most easily scripted job, and people would allow a fully naked bard to stay in their party because no one wanted to play bard.

FFXIV Bard is more like Corsair.

If Barcher is your waterloo for FFXIV, I would stay away and choose a more traditional MMO.

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I honestly don't know how interested ill be in the game if jobs suck hard like they do now... :(


The job system has undergone no changes. This is confirmed. The abilities and stats have been changes for monk a bit, but they have no plans to change the system as it stands.

Edited, Nov 1st 2012 11:45am by Louiscool
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#27 Nov 01 2012 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bard in XI was actually desired because of its pulling abilities during the height of the pink bird merit parties. Trust me, you can't script that role. It was exhausting and difficult, especially if there were two parties there, because the pressure was on you to maintain the chain. It was only after Abyssea was released that we were reprieved and bard retired to a true back line job again.

Pull, sleep, buff, pull sleep buff, every thirty seconds exactly, all while keeping yourself alive. And even with the best gear, you dealt with high resist rates since bard's sleep was light based and the pink birds were resistant to light.
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#28 Nov 01 2012 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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You can't say full support is boring! Lol that is your judgement. I am saying they should fix things to let those who want to stay more dps be able to stay archer and those who want support change to bard.

Anyway, I looove full support classes. DPS have always bored me. I like everyone relying on me. If I can be a class where I not dps in groups but instead are actively maintaining buffs, preferably enfeebling (maybe DoTing) enemies and throwing out heals/backup heals well... that is perfection :P. Even more perfection when it is a bard and I am doing this using instrument and music hahaha (bard is all time favorite mmo class :P). So full support might be boring for you... but best thing ever for me! And it is a double bonus... they are mostly found boring so not many roll them... therefore I am always playing most desired classes!
#29 Nov 01 2012 at 6:51 PM Rating: Decent
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I won't disagree that Archer becoming bard is not desirable and conflicting. The ideal solution would be to allow a second job for archer that is DD focuses, but then it would be alot of "Do you need me Ranger or Bard?" "Go Bard" "Grumblegrumble"

I image that bard will get a more spoony focus once Musketeer is released, giving us Ranged DD fans a new and improved outlet.
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#30 Nov 01 2012 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
4) Bard will never be a debuffer. That is Arcanist and their DoT magic. As bard, you are actually quite active if you want to be a good bard. You can only have 1 song up, so 3 songs on a 3 minute timer is more than enough. Sing to the mages, run and sing to the melees, runs back, do a combo or two, sing again.


Depending on the party I try to juggle 3 songs. Usually just two, but if I have a PLD I try to give em TP song and the other Melee ACC song, somewhere towards the middle PLD and Mages get MP. I can't do it on where everyone is moving around like Moogle and it's really fun to try and keep 2 songs up on fights like Ifrit, but it's fun. I know it's not ideal for my damage output and I focus first and foremost on the tanks ability to control hate and mages having MP, but if the party is good enough that I can slack on DMG to boost theirs then I do so. I do wish there was a timer for the other songs that you have on PT members for the more hectic fights, but usually it's easy to keep track of and the only hard thing is that one mage that likes to run out of range just as you start singing ^.~
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#31 Nov 02 2012 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Perrin wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
4) Bard will never be a debuffer. That is Arcanist and their DoT magic. As bard, you are actually quite active if you want to be a good bard. You can only have 1 song up, so 3 songs on a 3 minute timer is more than enough. Sing to the mages, run and sing to the melees, runs back, do a combo or two, sing again.


Depending on the party I try to juggle 3 songs. Usually just two, but if I have a PLD I try to give em TP song and the other Melee ACC song, somewhere towards the middle PLD and Mages get MP. I can't do it on where everyone is moving around like Moogle and it's really fun to try and keep 2 songs up on fights like Ifrit, but it's fun. I know it's not ideal for my damage output and I focus first and foremost on the tanks ability to control hate and mages having MP, but if the party is good enough that I can slack on DMG to boost theirs then I do so. I do wish there was a timer for the other songs that you have on PT members for the more hectic fights, but usually it's easy to keep track of and the only hard thing is that one mage that likes to run out of range just as you start singing ^.~


Yeah, I think this is the original point I was trying to make but you've done it much better here.

You can't just look at number of abilities and say it's pointless. FFXIV does a great job of minimizing the number of abilities you have and streamlining them to 2 action bars, unlike WoW where you need 10 (exaggeration).

If you want to play bard as pure bard, you won't find yourself lacking for things to do. You could gear for complete support and backup cure, and juggling songs is very active. In fact, many of the support buffs (all) only last a short time so you are always refreshing protect, regen, and other buffs on the party which makes it much more active to play support.
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#32 Nov 02 2012 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
You can't just look at number of abilities and say it's pointless. FFXIV does a great job of minimizing the number of abilities you have and streamlining them to 2 action bars, unlike WoW where you need 10 (exaggeration).


Quite the exaggeration. You don't even need 2 action bars in WoW. I have 3 bars on my interface, but they're all shortened to half the normal size(to keep everything in view) so technically it's 1½ bars.

Louiscool wrote:
many of the support buffs (all) only last a short time so you are always refreshing protect, regen, and other buffs on the party which makes it much more active to play support

It's good that this would at least keep people busy, but I'd rather have longer duration buffs and a bigger ******* of job specific spells, songs or abilities.
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#33 Nov 02 2012 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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lol well my way of thinking is more skills (songs, buffs, etc...) provide more utility for the class. More things it is capable of and thus more things to juggle with, thus harder and more active, thus more fun :P. I hate dumbed down classes. I want a really challenging fun one. With a lot more skills, you would have to adapt to the situation much better or anger your group. With limited skills its just ALWAYS the same skills repeated over and over again for everything...
#34 Nov 02 2012 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Banwawgwa wrote:
With a lot more skills, you would have to adapt to the situation much better or anger your group. With limited skills its just ALWAYS the same skills repeated over and over again for everything...


Unless all the skills but few suck, in which case the only way to anger your group is to try to be a unique butterfly and not sing the best songs.

There is no point in choice if it's not being balanced properly against other options. No game designer can balance XI's repertoire so that there would be real 'choices' to be had which the current skill ******* (not to mention when the level cap rises) can't already provide.
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#35 Nov 02 2012 at 7:56 PM Rating: Good
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I think a lot of people here are in for hefty disappointments as far as the class/job system is concerned. It likely will not be all that different from what is/was available in 1.0 in terms of it just being an added spice to the class system to narrow down the class's role in parties.

They'll likely provide more abilities to be more specific in this role aspect, but those expecting a complete overhaul on how battle looks need only look at the battle demonstrations currently available to affirm their fears.

I'll reserve my opinion on the course of it until I see the futures on how jobs deviate from classes. Right now? I just view Classes as a sub-form of Jobs, which you pretty much stay on.

Jobs really don't need definition. They're pretty cut and dry and easy to define simply by being iconic. Classes, however, need some more details added to them to separate their function away from what their jobs do.

For instance, they could make abilities functional enough so a Lancer could Opt to be a tank, or a Thaumaturge to play support.
#36 Nov 05 2012 at 5:09 AM Rating: Good
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Squeenix! You have FFT in your Portfolio! Use It! Embrace It! Live by It!! If you gonna take stuff from the main series and just mash it on XIV, why are you not using FFT :( :(

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#37 Nov 05 2012 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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Guild Wars 2 has solidified my stance that a large catalog of spells that you wind up using only 3 skills out of is inferior to a set of only 5 skills that you find yourself using continually.
#38 Nov 05 2012 at 8:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist wrote:
Guild Wars 2 has solidified my stance that a large catalog of spells that you wind up using only 3 skills out of is inferior to a set of only 5 skills that you find yourself using continually.


I think it better solidifies the stance that developers need to create content that makes the abilities and spells useful. It speaks more to the quality of the content when games are built in a way that using abilities or spells that can be counted on one hand. That's not to say that you couldn't create challenging content without more, but I personally would rather have more to do and think about.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#39 Nov 05 2012 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I think it better solidifies the stance that developers need to create content that makes the abilities and spells useful. It speaks more to the quality of the content when games are built in a way that using abilities or spells that can be counted on one hand. That's not to say that you couldn't create challenging content without more, but I personally would rather have more to do and think about.


Kudos to SE if they can make the battle system fun with a handful of abilities. I am of the opinion that in this case providing a variety of unique abilities is better. Let me decide which are good for each circumstance and elitists be damned. I knew plenty of camps in XI which required different abilities because of monster resistances.
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#40 Nov 06 2012 at 10:45 AM Rating: Decent
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kainsilv wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I think it better solidifies the stance that developers need to create content that makes the abilities and spells useful. It speaks more to the quality of the content when games are built in a way that using abilities or spells that can be counted on one hand. That's not to say that you couldn't create challenging content without more, but I personally would rather have more to do and think about.


Kudos to SE if they can make the battle system fun with a handful of abilities. I am of the opinion that in this case providing a variety of unique abilities is better. Let me decide which are good for each circumstance and elitists be damned. I knew plenty of camps in XI which required different abilities because of monster resistances.


I give SE credit for the Final Hard Mode fight, as the best strategy was to go in as a Class, not a job, to use Sentinel to survive meteor. IT was a nice touch, and would be cool if Classes were viable in other instances. Thaumaturge is the only Class that I use on the regular, because access to raise and cure is so helpful for BLM in many fights.
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#41 Nov 07 2012 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
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yeah OP, I feel you. The way they ruined combat (it wasn't perfect before the changes but it wasn't boring and dumbed down either - I used to love love love pug and I have NEVER liked playing a monk class before EVER) really was a dealbreaker for me. And the way they implemented classes was a mess.

I was so disappointed when they made archer into bard, especially, because I love buffing classes as well - (I even voted for "ranged support" or w/e on one of the surveys as what I preferred to play) - but don't really like playing DPS... so I would have to level a job I didn't want to play, to play a bastardized and dumbed down version of a job I wanted to play.

I really really really want to like XIV but I am pretty certain they've decided to stick with the TERRIBAD combat/class system monstrosity that they have created so... yeah. I'm fffed.

Edited, Nov 7th 2012 5:09pm by Olorinus
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#42 Nov 08 2012 at 12:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Lol guy above me knows just how I feel about this! YEY! I have heard though that arcanist will get to summon carbuncle (maybe more...? Idk) and will actually be like debuffing support. Maybe it has buffs to idk lol. But that would be cool. I could maybe learn to love that if that is how Arcanist will work out.

And I don't even think Bard in current XIV plays an instrument when it "plays" songs! I didn't see one in videos I saw. That best change if the job system is not going to!
#43 Nov 08 2012 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm for more songs, definitely. Haste, please!
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#44 Nov 08 2012 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Bard harps and lutes PLX
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#45 Nov 08 2012 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus wrote:
yeah OP, I feel you. The way they ruined combat (it wasn't perfect before the changes but it wasn't boring and dumbed down either - I used to love love love pug and I have NEVER liked playing a monk class before EVER) really was a dealbreaker for me. And the way they implemented classes was a mess.

I was so disappointed when they made archer into bard, especially, because I love buffing classes as well - (I even voted for "ranged support" or w/e on one of the surveys as what I preferred to play) - but don't really like playing DPS... so I would have to level a job I didn't want to play, to play a bastardized and dumbed down version of a job I wanted to play.

I really really really want to like XIV but I am pretty certain they've decided to stick with the TERRIBAD combat/class system monstrosity that they have created so... yeah. I'm fffed.

Edited, Nov 7th 2012 5:09pm by Olorinus


Holy ****, Olorinus is back! with.. nothing new to say on the subject... oh.

I disagreed violently with your original combat system hate, and still do. You wanted to play FFXIV: Super Button Masher Edition. Every. other. person. wanted auto attack. Guess what? You still get to play button masher as Archer!

(actually, no, Archer is getting auto attack in 2.0. Sorry)

Many of my friends left because of the old combat system and returned because it was improved. Can't please everyone, so let's just settle for "Everyone but Olorinus."
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#46 Nov 08 2012 at 8:06 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
I disagreed violently with your original combat system hate, and still do. You wanted to play FFXIV: Super Button Masher Edition. Every. other. person. wanted auto attack. Guess what? You still get to play button masher as Archer!

Not everyone wanted auto-attack and it's pretty ignorant for you to assume that.

Go ahead and create a poll and we'll see how that 'everyone else' statement hold up.

I'm sure you'd find that people want something more than auto-attack with only a few worthwhile abilities. XIV doesn't have enough useful abilities, abilities that are reactive or that require certain conditions to be met before use. I get the whole 'streamlined and simplified' argument and I'm with it, but the system as it stands needs more diversity.
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Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#47 Nov 09 2012 at 1:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Not everyone wanted auto-attack and it's pretty ignorant for you to assume that.

Go ahead and create a poll and we'll see how that 'everyone else' statement hold up.

I'm sure you'd find that people want something more than auto-attack with only a few worthwhile abilities. XIV doesn't have enough useful abilities, abilities that are reactive or that require certain conditions to be met before use. I get the whole 'streamlined and simplified' argument and I'm with it, but the system as it stands needs more diversity.


Amen. One thing is clear, we all agree that in its current condition the battle system is stale and missing something or several key things. I sincerely hope SE is listening.

My fingers are crossed that adding ‘Limit Breaks’ will help but I think the problems run deeper than just adding an element of teamwork. I will use the example of playing Black Mage and nuking everything in sight with lightning over and over... and over again. Even with combos it feels very... well... not fun. Where are the monsters resistant to lightning forcing me to cast ice. Oh but wait... I don’t really have any useful ice spells.

I should apologize because I keep harping on the battle system but I see it as the difference between making XIV good and making XIV great. I’ll admit my MMO experience is limited to a handful of games, Ultima Online, Final Fantasy XI & XIV, Lineage I & II, World of Warcraft, Shadowbane and maybe one or two others (this list probably dates me) but something is out of balance here.

Edited, Nov 9th 2012 2:40am by kainsilv
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#48 Nov 09 2012 at 2:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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FFXIV's battle system lacks mechanics that force you to REact on top of those which force you to act and coordinate.
(Like combos that require you to string abilities together according to on-screen prompts).
Up to now, their excuse was server lag issues.

I understand that even the seemingly excellent system of TERA becomes tedious after a few hours, so I hope they find
a compromise.

And there should be "fast-paced jobs" (e.g. monks whose power output depends on fast reaction to enemy conditions like
staggers, turns and movement) for the twitchers among us, as well as "pattern-based" jobs for those who like to lay back
and relax (e.g., black mages who watch the "overall picture" and scorch the battlefield with tremendously powerful long-charge
AOE attacks once in a while). Of course that's only a suggestion, and ideally, it should be possible to play the respective jobs
both fast-paced and pattern-based depending on personal specs (e.g. ability selection).

Then again, the Class/Job hybrid system still is a steaming pile of puke, so there goes your hope.
#49 Nov 09 2012 at 2:59 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah... we may just be expecting tooooo much at this point. I mean, they had to rebuild the entire game and 2.0 launch, surely they cannot have E'erythang players want implemented. They did rework combat, to what extent though... We don't quite know. Perhaps they were more focused on rebuilding EVERYTHING else... Not to make excuses for them, but if 2.0's combat and class/job system is not what we want, perhaps it can still happen. I feel SE has no choice but to listen to its players at this point...

And I agree with TERA comment. The "cool awesome action combat" was pretty fun when fighting BAMs or boss monsters in dungeons... but you were most of the time fighting trash mobs for quests... and the combat did get quite tedious and somewhat annoying on trash mobs :P.

I also have been advocating that in this post! That implement larger selection of skills/abilities and actually keep them viable so players are expected to react to different situations and different boss battles. Not have 3 buffs you just always keep up because that is all you have... or 2 heals (1 single and 1 aoe). having such limited healing doesn't implement any strategy to mana preserve or anything.
#50 Nov 09 2012 at 5:05 AM Rating: Good
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What version of combat is this already ? Is gonna be the fourth of third ? Yeah! I think that we should expect any company to get it right at the first try (Every other company has) yet we are on our 3rd/4th reincarnation of the battle system... and a gimmick(Limit Brakes) is going to make a huge difference ? Meh!

I personally want better techniques, i feel that as a lancer all my moves look/feel the same, and if i sub warrior, their techniques are the same as mine..... just different fireworks <.<

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#51 Nov 09 2012 at 7:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
FFXIV's battle system lacks mechanics that force you to REact on top of those which force you to act and coordinate.
(Like combos that require you to string abilities together according to on-screen prompts).


Aren't the new limit breaks they're going to introduce supposed to fix this? I thought I remembered there would be some kind of coordination between players for these kind of like skill chains? Or maybe I'm completely off here.




Edited, Nov 9th 2012 7:26am by Wint
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