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Oh for Heaven's Sake, Click QuestsFollow

#1 Nov 02 2012 at 12:40 PM Rating: Default
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Please say it isn't so. Please Square-Enix, TELL ME it is not true!



....it seems that click-quests have found their way in. You know, the quests of other MMOs where you run around the town and "examine" 9 spots and then get rewarded with XP. WoW, this looks like it is really shaping up to be unique and original.
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#2 Nov 02 2012 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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Why do a lot of people insist on writing "wow" in context of being amused or, satirically, bemused, with "WoW" as in the initials for World of Warcraft.

On topic: I don't mind as long as variety prevails. The occasional orientation quest for a new area, seeing the sights etc is fine. Every third quest? <Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass>
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#3 Nov 02 2012 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
....it seems that click-quests have found their way in. You know, the quests of other MMOs where you run around the town and "examine" 9 spots and then get rewarded with XP. WoW, this looks like it is really shaping up to be unique and original.

Hmm, lets see here...

'Other' MMOs? You forget that levequests(which were touted as new and unique since inception) are pretty much the same thing? There is only so much these games can offer in terms of content electro. GW2 was supposed to be filled with amazing dynamic quest content and it turned out to be the same thing. All you're going to get at this point is the same ****** gift in a different sized box with new wrapping paper on it. Why do people expect anything different?

If I had a dime for every time this argument surfaced, I'd probably be trying to convince everyone that the PotUS isn't an American. If you have better suggestions, fire away...
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#4electromagnet83, Posted: Nov 02 2012 at 1:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't expect anything different. I just don't expect them to conform to the same old tired tricks used in every gift box MMO out there. This being one of them. XIV was fine, and unique, XI was great and very unique.
#5 Nov 02 2012 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:
....it seems that click-quests have found their way in. You know, the quests of other MMOs where you run around the town and "examine" 9 spots and then get rewarded with XP. WoW, this looks like it is really shaping up to be unique and original.

Hmm, lets see here...

'Other' MMOs? You forget that levequests(which were touted as new and unique since inception) are pretty much the same thing? There is only so much these games can offer in terms of content electro. GW2 was supposed to be filled with amazing dynamic quest content and it turned out to be the same thing. All you're going to get at this point is the same sh*tty gift in a different sized box with new wrapping paper on it. Why do people expect anything different?

If I had a dime for every time this argument surfaced, I'd probably be trying to convince everyone that the PotUS isn't an American. If you have better suggestions, fire away...


I don't expect anything different. I just don't expect them to conform to the same old tired tricks used in every gift box MMO out there. This being one of them. XIV was fine, and unique, XI was great and very unique.


XI was the same thing as EQ essentially in how it grinded out and played. How many times did I have to click and trade cabbage for fame???.

XI did the same thing as WoW and all other MMO's did out there and packaged it up with a story and grinding.

You don't want something different but you want something unique??? Sounds like the Progressive Conservative's up here in Canada.

There's only so many ways in this world to do something; and I bet you dollars to donuts if someone did come out with something different (like XIV did when it first launched) people would **** all over it and ask "why can't it go back to X or Y~!" oh wait... yeah. nvm.
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#6 Nov 02 2012 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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You sure like to complain, don't you?

FFXIV had click quests. They're called Horn and Hand faction leves. And yes, you literally have to run around and examine spots for EXP.
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#7 Nov 02 2012 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:
....it seems that click-quests have found their way in. You know, the quests of other MMOs where you run around the town and "examine" 9 spots and then get rewarded with XP. WoW, this looks like it is really shaping up to be unique and original.

Hmm, lets see here...

'Other' MMOs? You forget that levequests(which were touted as new and unique since inception) are pretty much the same thing? There is only so much these games can offer in terms of content electro. GW2 was supposed to be filled with amazing dynamic quest content and it turned out to be the same thing. All you're going to get at this point is the same sh*tty gift in a different sized box with new wrapping paper on it. Why do people expect anything different?

If I had a dime for every time this argument surfaced, I'd probably be trying to convince everyone that the PotUS isn't an American. If you have better suggestions, fire away...


I don't expect anything different. I just don't expect them to conform to the same old tired tricks used in every gift box MMO out there. This being one of them. XIV was fine, and unique, XI was great and very unique.

Didn't bother to read what you quoted? Bolded my point and underlined yours...

As stated before (and after), XI was basically EQ re-skinned. Talk to NPC, retrieve required items or kills and return. XIV is no different. Talk to NPC at leve desk, retrieve required items or kills and return. How exactly is/was XIV different? Is throwing a card at a stone really all that unique?

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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#8electromagnet83, Posted: Nov 02 2012 at 2:55 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So what if FFXI is a rip off of EQ? Point being, why didn't MMOs all turn out like EQ? Why did (do ) they all have to turn out like WoW? If you're going to rip off a model, EQ would have been a better choice imho.
#9 Nov 02 2012 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:

So what if FFXI is a rip off of EQ? Point being, why didn't MMOs all turn out like EQ? Why did (do ) they all have to turn out like WoW? If you're going to rip off a model, EQ would have been a better choice imho.


Your whole thread's premise is about how XIV is a rip-off while XI "wasn't". Now suddenly being a rip-off is fine, as long as it's a rip-off of EQ and not WoW. Classy.

FF players don't care if the game is a rip-off. They didn't care with XI, they won't care here. Now MMO players? Too bad for them, better keep looking.
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#10 Nov 02 2012 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:

So what if FFXI is a rip off of EQ? Point being, why didn't MMOs all turn out like EQ? Why did (do ) they all have to turn out like WoW? If you're going to rip off a model, EQ would have been a better choice imho.


Your whole thread's premise is about how XIV is a rip-off while XI "wasn't". Now suddenly being a rip-off is fine, as long as it's a rip-off of EQ and not WoW. Classy.

FF players don't care if the game is a rip-off. They didn't care with XI, they won't care here. Now MMO players? Too bad for them, better keep looking.


Exactly, to say that it's acceptable for XI to be an Everquest rip-off but it's not acceptable for XIV to be a Warcraft rip-off is hypocritical. XI copied the formula of the most popular MMO out at the time, and now XIV is copying the formula of the most popular MMO out right now. Nothing wrong with that, especially since XI still turned out to be a fantastic game even though it was just a clone.
#11 Nov 02 2012 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
So what if FFXI is a rip off of EQ? Point being, why didn't MMOs all turn out like EQ? Why did (do ) they all have to turn out like WoW? If you're going to rip off a model, EQ would have been a better choice imho.


What makes them different is what is found elsewhere. Battle system, class mechanics, encounter design, art design... I could go on. The point is that when you speak specifically about quest design, as the thread title suggests, there is little to no deviance from the tried and true 'speak to someone who has a task for you to complete, return to collect reward' model. It's pretty standard for all MMOs and all RPG for that matter.

I'm still interested in hearing about what you would do differently or how you feel it could be better implemented.
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30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#12 Nov 02 2012 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
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A potential solo xp opportunity may lie in an arena type senario? Every ten levels you're rewarded with a mini Maat-like scenario to test your skills. Rather than necessarily fighting against your own class the .vs classes grow harder as you advance? Just thinking out loud...
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#13 Nov 02 2012 at 6:03 PM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
I don't expect anything different. I just don't expect them to conform to the same old tired tricks used in every gift box MMO out there. This being one of them. XIV was fine, and unique, XI was great and very unique.


Well even now in 1.0 gathering leves, as well as some of the actual quests involve running around and GASP! tracking down random nodes to click.

****, some even make you wait inside a stupid slowly moving spotlight event before you can get to the next point to click...
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#14 Nov 03 2012 at 9:32 AM Rating: Default
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So what if I want it to rip-off EQ? Am I not entitled to say that I think I would have rather EQ and FFXI become the standard that all other MMOs adhere to? I don't like WoW. I don't like its sandbox world with drag-n-drop mountains and trees and its cartoonish, very "gamey" feel. If I'm going to spend a significant time in an alternate reality I'd prefer it to be more realistic in function and feeling and not so blatantly videogame-ish. The fact that every other MMO since then has copied it bothers me yes. The fact that FFXIV 2.0 is copying it bothers me even more. But that's just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions? Apparently mine stinks....

Edited, Nov 3rd 2012 11:32am by electromagnet83
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#15 Nov 03 2012 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
So what if I want it to rip-off EQ? Am I not entitled to say that I think I would have rather EQ and FFXI become the standard that all other MMOs adhere to?

I'm in the US, so I'm inclined to say that you're 'entitled' to say whatever the **** you want. If you're going to contradict yourself by saying that something that rips something else off is unique, don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

electromagnet83 wrote:
I don't like WoW. I don't like its sandbox world...

So you don't like a game where you're free to roam? You want to play an MMO where the quest progression is linear and you just ride rails like a single player game? There are games like that, but EQ, XI or XIV are not counted among them. I think maybe you meant to say something else? WoW is much closer to being on rails than any other game mentioned here...

electromagnet83 wrote:
The fact that FFXIV 2.0 is copying it bothers me even more.

Actually I think what bothers you most is that WoW copied EQ and XI, but they focused on what was truly important to the majority.

I'll take an example from XI to prove my point: BCNMs. I don't know about you, but I loved the concept. Something you could do at various points to break the monotonous grind. They were somewhat challenging and could be done with various group sizes and at different levels. This was a brilliant idea in my opinion. The only issues I had with BCNMs were that you had to farm for weeks, sometimes months to gain entry and they didn't last very long. Now what would have happened if they had instanced content that lasted a bit longer and didn't require such a hefty grind to enter? /point WoW instances and raids

All Blizzard did was take what was already there at it's core, simplified it and expanded on it. The game is popular because they focused on making it accessible. You didn't need high priced hardware to run it and the controls + UI are intuitive and highly customizable. It doesn't have eye-candy graphics, but that clearly wasn't what they were shooting for and it's a fair sacrifice for responsive gameplay. Even if I didn't like it myself, I could appreciate it for what it is.

This whole 'more like WoW' mentality is misdirected. What is everyone's beef with making a game more intuitive, responsive and (as a result) fun to play?

Edited, Nov 3rd 2012 1:04pm by FilthMcNasty
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#16 Nov 03 2012 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
This whole 'more like WoW' mentality is misdirected. What is everyone's beef with making a game more intuitive, responsive and (as a result) fun to play?


It depends upon what one isolates as "WoW like." People who like the game prefer to focus only on very general, positive aspects -- intuitive UI, responsiveness, and "fun," apparently -- while those who are more critical of the product itself recognize bland quests, nearly brain-dead difficulty, and a simplistic world sharply delineated by simple progression mechanics.

Obviously it would not be a controversial issue if all "WoW-like" referred to was a few UI and latency improvements. The problem is that it doesn't. "WoW-like" would be a good thing if developers only took a handful of its best offerings. The problem is that they don't.

When people complain about something being more like WoW, they lament the fact that developers of many games copy far more than they should from the aging behemoth. These developers use no discretion but the simple fact that a given system appears in their source. Suddenly "quests" need to be one-click affairs demarcated by gigantic, floating arrows above the start and end point. All item management has to take place arbitrarily across five backpacks. Combat must involve constantly regenerating HP and MP, and must be carried out through quick, persistent macro rotations. And so on.

The disdain for games that are "more like WoW" is understandable. The game itself, by virtue of its unprecedented success, has nearly stagnated the industry and curtailed variation at its very root as companies struggle desperately to duplicate it. This is not the fault of WoW, of course, but those who look blindly towards it. It has become a crutch for creativity, a wobbly, mass-produced wireframe over which misdirected games are continuously built. The level of "inspiration" developers should take from WoW is minor but effective; the level they do take is massive and unnecessary.


Edited, Nov 3rd 2012 1:45pm by KaneKitty
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#17electromagnet83, Posted: Nov 03 2012 at 12:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) First of all, I am not contradicting myself. I'm making myself clear. Everything rips off everything. Every movie is a rip of a former movie, every song is built off of the success of previous songs, every game copies it's predecessors, etc. My point is that every MMO copies WoW and tries to be as close to it as possible. FFXI copied EQ, that's fine. Point being, I think EQ would have been a better starting point for everyone to rip off. Unfortunately only FFXI really did, and everything since has opted to rip WoW.
#18 Nov 03 2012 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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XI had click quests too. In Wings of the Goddess, the Campaign Ops based inside cities included the quest where you ran around collecting "Suspicious Objects." Turn them in, bam, campaign ops credit and points, and a little bit of exp.

It was actually a good, steady, slow, no-risk way to level up super low level jobs while earning the all important campaign credits for promotion. I got DRG from level 10 to somewhere in the thirties just by doing that one quest a few times in a row every couple of days.
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#19 Nov 03 2012 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
The level of "inspiration" developers should take from WoW is minor but effective; the level they do take is massive and unnecessary.

I'm not saying that WoW is the pinnacle, but there is only so far you can build on a foundation before whatever you built starts to look the same. That's pretty much what makes it a genre. If 'like WoW' is a turn off then maybe MMOs aren't the type of game suited for the person? You say that the scope of 'like WoW' is more broad than just UI, controls, ect... yet the complaints as to why it isn't enjoyable is usually limited to it not being unique. I don't see one giving way to the other.

electromagnet83 wrote:
First of all, I am not contradicting myself. I'm making myself clear.

You said that XI was unique, then turned around and agreed that it ripped off EQ. If that isn't contradiction(in the context of the topic) then I'm not sure what is.

electromagnet83 wrote:
By "sandbox world" I was referring to the microscopicness of it.

I understand what you mean, but you're using the wrong term. 'Sandbox' as it relates to MMOs is generally a term for a game that sets you loose in a large world and allows you to roam freely and create your own path. That would make it pretty much the opposite of what you used it to describe. 'Themepark' MMOs are more the type of game that leads you through the experience. WoW is widely considered a themepark MMO because of the quest progression. If you write a 'Gamer Blog', you should probably familiarize yourself with these terms Smiley: nod

I would honestly rather be put in a small fenced-in backyard with a water slide, a volleyball net and a swimming pool than a thousand acre plot of dirt with broken shovel. Content is more important than quantity to the majority. I really don't want to get into an argument about how much larger or smaller one game is than the other and I don't really see how it's relevant to the topic anyway.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2012 3:05pm by FilthMcNasty
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#20electromagnet83, Posted: Nov 03 2012 at 1:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Then put a collar on and have your owners open the back door for you to let you out. The rest of us Human Beings who want something different and interesting that we can explore will hope that Square delivers something truly impressive. If everyone had your mentality we wouldn't try to go to Mars or the moon. We would all just be like, "meh, Cincinnati is good enough."
#21 Nov 03 2012 at 2:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
The level of "inspiration" developers should take from WoW is minor but effective; the level they do take is massive and unnecessary.

I'm not saying that WoW is the pinnacle, but there is only so far you can build on a foundation before whatever you built starts to look the same. That's pretty much what makes it a genre. If 'like WoW' is a turn off then maybe MMOs aren't the type of game suited for the person? You say that the scope of 'like WoW' is more broad than just UI, controls, ect... yet the complaints as to why it isn't enjoyable is usually limited to it not being unique. I don't see one giving way to the other.

electromagnet83 wrote:
First of all, I am not contradicting myself. I'm making myself clear.

You said that XI was unique, then turned around and agreed that it ripped off EQ. If that isn't contradiction(in the context of the topic) then I'm not sure what is.

electromagnet83 wrote:
By "sandbox world" I was referring to the microscopicness of it.

I understand what you mean, but you're using the wrong term. 'Sandbox' as it relates to MMOs is generally a term for a game that sets you loose in a large world and allows you to roam freely and create your own path. That would make it pretty much the opposite of what you used it to describe. 'Themepark' MMOs are more the type of game that leads you through the experience. WoW is widely considered a themepark MMO because of the quest progression. If you write a 'Gamer Blog', you should probably familiarize yourself with these terms Smiley: nod

I would honestly rather be put in a small fenced-in backyard with a water slide, a volleyball net and a swimming pool than a thousand acre plot of dirt with broken shovel. Content is more important than quantity to the majority. I really don't want to get into an argument about how much larger or smaller one game is than the other and I don't really see how it's relevant to the topic anyway.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2012 3:05pm by FilthMcNasty


Then put a collar on and have your owners open the back door for you to let you out. The rest of us Human Beings who want something different and interesting that we can explore will hope that Square delivers something truly impressive. If everyone had your mentality we wouldn't try to go to Mars or the moon. We would all just be like, "meh, Cincinnati is good enough."


Please...stop it already. You are confusing as ****. I'm getting a headache.

The concept is simple. Well...not really.

FFXI was a grind and kinda tough.
EQ was a grind and not as tough
EQ2 was a grind...but more quests.
WoW was a grind, but quest driven. End game took ideas from prev MMOs and made it easier to accomplish with well defined goals and rewards. 10 million strong tend to love this concept.

FFXIV - tried to re-invent the wheel...but forgot to bring a car.

FFXIV - Borrowing a car from previous MMO's and using existing FF parts to add to the car...and hope to bring back the original FF base they were looking for as well as a new eventual home for those still playing FFXI.

Ta-dah...
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#22electromagnet83, Posted: Nov 03 2012 at 2:31 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) And they all ripped off Project Entropia.
#23 Nov 03 2012 at 3:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
So what if I want it to rip-off EQ? Am I not entitled to say that I think I would have rather EQ and FFXI become the standard that all other MMOs adhere to?


Because the original purpose of this thread was to bash XIV for being more like Warcraft, and then going on about how XI was so "unique and original" when XI was actually an Everquest clone. You obviously didn't realize this when you made the thread, so now you're trying to change your argument from "I want XIV to be original and unique" to "I want XIV to be an Everquest clone and not a Warcraft clone."

You're entitled to say whatever you want to say, you're just being hypocritical about it. Like Hyanmen said, real classy.
#24electromagnet83, Posted: Nov 03 2012 at 5:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Haha God you people are so dramatic. My intention isn't to bash FFXIV lol. I've been playing it all along and will more than likely continue through 2.0 and far after. And I've stated from the very beginning that I don't care if it is a rip off and that I understand everything is a rip off of SOMETHING. I just wish FFXIV wouldn't take things from WoW. Take it fro XI, or EQ, or be unique and try something altogether different. Just because I like the game doesn't mean I can't have complaints about it. Doesn't mean I'm bashing it. I just feel some of the decisions they are making aren't right. Offline FF games followed their own footsteps and that is why it has lasted so long. They don't need to copy WoW or anyone really but of all the people to copy, WoW is the lamest one because it's been done TO DEATH. Geez stop being a bunch of fanboys for a second and pay attention.
#25 Nov 03 2012 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Haha God you people are so dramatic. My intention isn't to bash FFXIV lol. I've been playing it all along and will more than likely continue through 2.0 and far after. And I've stated from the very beginning that I don't care if it is a rip off and that I understand everything is a rip off of SOMETHING. I just wish FFXIV wouldn't take things from WoW. Take it fro XI, or EQ, or be unique and try something altogether different. Just because I like the game doesn't mean I can't have complaints about it. Doesn't mean I'm bashing it. I just feel some of the decisions they are making aren't right. Offline FF games followed their own footsteps and that is why it has lasted so long. They don't need to copy WoW or anyone really but of all the people to copy, WoW is the lamest one because it's been done TO DEATH. Geez stop being a bunch of fanboys for a second and pay attention.


It may not be your intention to bash FFXIV but from the last few threads you've posted, it would certainly seem that way. I could argue the point of not caring if something is a copy of the other but the very fact that this thread exists is a testament that it does bother you in some way. I'm surprised you didn't see quest-based leveling coming. It was the first thing that came to mind after reading Yoshida's interview with Blizzard back in the summer of this year. Single player FF games are a completely different genre, they are more story driven (which is what 14 is trying to do?). Now, there is nothing wrong with being a story driven MMO but considering the resources it takes to build the MMO then incorporate the story elements might be a little much. Given only two years of development, which would you rather have; a fun, intuitive experience on your journey to level cap or a good story? You're going to lose out in one area. WoW set the baseline for future MMOs, it's been said in this thread that most companies have taken too much of WoW and tried to incorporate it in their games when they should look at what WoW has done and tried to come up with something better.
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#26 Nov 03 2012 at 7:49 PM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
Haha God you people are so dramatic. My intention isn't to bash FFXIV lol.


Then what is your intention? You aren't using logic, you've flipped-flopped back and forth, and you make absolutely no sense. Basically, you razzed on WoW for being a success (which was copied pretty much from EQ but with more accessibility) and cry about FFXIV 2.0 having the same type of quests as every other single damned MMO.

electromagnet83 wrote:
I've been playing it all along and will more than likely continue through 2.0 and far after. And I've stated from the very beginning that I don't care if it is a rip off and that I understand everything is a rip off of SOMETHING. I just wish FFXIV wouldn't take things from WoW. Take it fro XI, or EQ, or be unique and try something altogether different.


Newsflash: WoW was built from EQ just like FFXI was.

Also, being unique is what got FFXIV into this mess in the first place. Being unique simply to be unique is absolutely bloody stupid.

electromagnet83 wrote:
Geez stop being a bunch of fanboys for a second and pay attention.


They aren't fanboys, they're simply pointing out the stupidity if your posts in this thread and lack of any logic in them. They *are* paying attention; you simply aren't making any sense.
#27 Nov 03 2012 at 8:13 PM Rating: Good
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Seraphaniim wrote:
WoW set the baseline for future MMOs, it's been said in this thread that most companies have taken too much of WoW and tried to incorporate it in their games when they should look at what WoW has done and tried to come up with something better.

A zillion times, this ^

electromagnet83 wrote:
I just wish FFXIV wouldn't take things from WoW. Take it fro XI, or EQ, or be unique and try something altogether different.

My whole point was that WoW was successful because they took something old and improved upon it. SE has to do the same thing here with XIV. Put yourself in their shoes for just a moment...

Imagine the look on Wada's face if you were lead designer and you walked into his office to ask for tens of millions to develop a game just like something that was already made a decade prior on less than half that budget. Good luck trying to convince me that you wouldn't get laughed out of the building.

I understand the gripe about graphics because I do enjoy some eye candy, but it has to be accompanied by great gameplay. The majority of gamers would probably take a 16 bit game over XIV if it played better.




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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#28 Nov 03 2012 at 10:06 PM Rating: Default
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Edited, Nov 4th 2012 12:09am by je355804
#29 Nov 03 2012 at 10:09 PM Rating: Default
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EDIT:

Was slightly coming to EMs defense, particularly on the "you like to complain comment"... read around the forums... and yes, you complain about pure minutia more than anyone I've ever seen.

Edited, Nov 4th 2012 12:19am by je355804
#30 Nov 04 2012 at 12:57 AM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
nekroturkey wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:
So what if I want it to rip-off EQ? Am I not entitled to say that I think I would have rather EQ and FFXI become the standard that all other MMOs adhere to?


Because the original purpose of this thread was to bash XIV for being more like Warcraft, and then going on about how XI was so "unique and original" when XI was actually an Everquest clone. You obviously didn't realize this when you made the thread, so now you're trying to change your argument from "I want XIV to be original and unique" to "I want XIV to be an Everquest clone and not a Warcraft clone."

You're entitled to say whatever you want to say, you're just being hypocritical about it. Like Hyanmen said, real classy.


Haha God you people are so dramatic. My intention isn't to bash FFXIV lol. I've been playing it all along and will more than likely continue through 2.0 and far after. And I've stated from the very beginning that I don't care if it is a rip off and that I understand everything is a rip off of SOMETHING. I just wish FFXIV wouldn't take things from WoW. Take it fro XI, or EQ, or be unique and try something altogether different. Just because I like the game doesn't mean I can't have complaints about it. Doesn't mean I'm bashing it. I just feel some of the decisions they are making aren't right. Offline FF games followed their own footsteps and that is why it has lasted so long. They don't need to copy WoW or anyone really but of all the people to copy, WoW is the lamest one because it's been done TO DEATH. Geez stop being a bunch of fanboys for a second and pay attention.


Honestly, this is the only post in this thread that I've bothered to read. Here's my 2 cents on the subject. I've highlighted the part I found most important. They tried this originally at the launch and it didn't turn out so well as you've seen. When Yoshi-p took over the reigns of lead developer, he released a poll asking different questions about how we, the players, thought the game could be improved and what things we would like to see in the game. We now see these things in the game and some people are not happy since they resemble features found in other games. They asked what we wanted and now people are complaining about the things they added even though the majority of people asked in those polls asked for it. I can only assume that the people who are unhappy with the additions are those in the player population who answered those questions differently. They added these things considering the quickest and easiest way available to them. Please understand that many of these options werent implemented in the way they would have liked to due to the way the servers worked. They will, in 2.0, implement things the way the wanted to originally now that they have servers that work in a way for them to add content the way they would like to. Knowing this, we can expect old content to show up in 2.0 to be a little bit different than what it was like in 1.0. An example of this would be hamlet. It originally wasn't going to be in an instance, but open world like how behest and caravan worked, but it wasn't possible to do this due to the limitations on how the servers worked at the time. We can only expect a lot of other things to change along these lines, so we must wait for 2.0 so see them.

I appologize for the wall o'text explaining such a small sentiment. Basically to sum up, people asked for these types of things and they are giving it to us. Yes they resemble features found in other games, but this is what the playerbase has asked for. If you have issues with these things, I implore you to go to the official forum while you can and make suggestions there. Threads making complaints about tiny details such as this are as old as the moon and this forum has seen a lot of them. Most of us are tired of seeing threads posted like this. If you are really that unhappy about having quests like that then perhaps you may not want to spend your time playing 2.0. If this is something you are willing to look past and experience other content then perhaps you may want to give it a try.
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#31electromagnet83, Posted: Nov 04 2012 at 12:57 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes, this whole thread is fanboyism at it's best.
#32 Nov 04 2012 at 1:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
To illustrate that I find it sad that a company I've loved for so many years is resorting to the status quo rather than innovating and MAKING the status quo.

I agree, but you aren't thinking from the perspective of SE. If you just sank tens of millions into a game that flopped, you want to do everything you can to re-establish a footing. They tried to innovate and it didn't work. Guildleves were supposed to be revolutionary quests much like GW2 promised dynamic content would be. It didn't work. The market wards were supposed to be innovative and at the same time thwart RMT. It didn't work.

The point is that it makes more sense to present something closer to what people are used to and build from there. Example:

The first battle system died in alpha and I won't go into detail, but you'd never expect a company who's been at it for decades to try and present something so broken. The second battle system was also scrapped for the same reason so they removed battle regiments and added auto-attack. The limit breaks will be the 4th incarnation of the battle system. As long as the engine is optimized to make future changes, which all MMOs should be capable of, SE will be able to make the necessary changes further down the road should they decide to. Crawl before you stand, before you walk, before you run...

electromagnet83 wrote:
Yes, this whole thread is fanboyism at it's best.

That means - like many people on this thread- some people will eat up any crap decisions Square-Enix decides to go through with because in their eyes Square is perfect in every way.

Did you ever stop to consider that perhaps people are looking forward to the changes because, at the very least, they're an improvement over what is currently implemented? No one here is saying that copying the status quo is revolutionary and industry-changing, but at least it will meet standards.

electromagnet83 wrote:
FFXIV 2.0 = "Failure not an option so let's roll with the status quo. With what has proven works. Don't take any risks and don't try to set a new standard. Play it safe. It won't be amazing. But it'll do well for a little while."

That mentality isn't what made Square Enix so popular. And it's not going to make a great MMO. At best it's going to make a decent MMO that we'll all enjoy for awhile.

MMOs are supposed to evolve. You're spot on with the idea that failure isn't an option so I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to come to terms with the fact that 'playing it safe' for all intents and purposes possibly means saving the franchise. I'd first wait until 2.0 is actually released before making bold assumptions. I'm almost certain that I hold the title of harshest critic on XIV 1.0 for these forums, but even I am willing to give 2.0 some breathing room. At least let them re-launch before you doom the game to failure. Personally, I'm giving SE the benefit of the doubt and allowing them through the first major content upgrade to make their case. Don't be so quick to judge.




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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#33 Nov 04 2012 at 6:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
Yes, this whole thread is fanboyism at it's best.


Whenever somebody disagrees with your hypocritical viewpoints and your illogical flip-flopping arguments that you can't seem to keep straight, you label them a "fanboy." We're not defending Square; we're criticizing your shoddy, poorly articulated, factually incorrect, irrational and inconsistent arguments that you keep changing every other post.

You made this thread with the intention of bashing XIV for not being "unique and original like XI" without realizing that XI was just an Everquest clone. So instead of continuing to complain about how XIV's not going to be "unique and original like XI," you start complaining about how "XIV should be an Everquest clone and not a Warcraft clone" because of your own personal disdain for Warcraft. Ironically, you then proceed to call us biased.

Like I said before, you're entitled to say whatever you want to say. Just don't get upset when you're criticized for being wrong.

Edited, Nov 4th 2012 8:02am by nekroturkey
#34electromagnet83, Posted: Nov 04 2012 at 8:34 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I didnt' make the thread with that intention. I made one simple, mostly joking comment about a game I am 99% sure I'm going to play. It was the flaming attacks against me immediately following that comment that set the course to what it is now.
#35 Nov 04 2012 at 8:35 AM Rating: Good
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Honestly, what made XI unique and original and at the same time made it a true Final Fantasy game was the cutscene based mission storyline. FFXIV had that too, to some extent, and I hope 2.0 continues it. Very few other MMOs put as much effort into telling a story with mini movies and NPCs.

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#36 Nov 04 2012 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Really if XIV is going to fail; it's because the community causes it too. I've kept a personal list of the threads on the lodestone asking for things. Nearly 80% of all that's been asked has been given in 2.0. Really.

SE is listening to what players want for the most part. The general process is:

We complain.
They listen.
They give us a little here, ask for a little there.
We complain that they gave us most of what was asked for.
We ask for XI this, XI that.
They adjust.
Repeat.

A game will only be as good as the community that plays it. It will only succeed if the community likes it.

So really; who is to blame for what is considered "XIV's current state"?
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Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

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#37 Nov 04 2012 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Elionara wrote:
A game will only be as good as the community that plays it. It will only succeed if the community likes it.

So really; who is to blame for what is considered "XIV's current state"?

It's my fault Smiley: sly
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Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#38 Nov 05 2012 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Simool wrote:
FFXIV - tried to re-invent the wheel...but forgot to bring a car.


This thread is boring me to tears but I just wanted to say this made me LOL on a cruddy Monday morning. 3 rate ups for you! Smiley: thumbsup
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#39 Nov 05 2012 at 11:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Please stop making complaining topics... The forum was nice and peaceful but here comes the complaints version 2.0, and somehow this needed it's own topic.
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#40electromagnet83, Posted: Nov 05 2012 at 2:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I officially retract all of my previous posts and comments. Now I have to go to the Doctor's and get a Lobotomy. Don't need this brain anymore.
#41 Nov 05 2012 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Look what happened when the innovated? sh*t storm.
What happens when they use the standard which millions of people are used to just like your "standard" FPS? sh*t storm.

I'm not talking about GUI delay either. Focus on what the actual systems were. We all know it was slow.

I've saved the name and complain of every person from the official forums and some from here.

What I see happening quite a bit is Person A complains about Option B. Offers Option Y or Z as a alternative.

SE Chooses one of those options and Person A comes back and says; I DON'T LIKE IT MOM~!

Really; it happens. A lot.

Best advice; wait until the **** thing is out. Try it. If you like it. Play it. If you dislike a small number of things, don't whine, play it.

If playing it causes you grief on a daily basis; stop sticking your extremities in a light socket daily; ease your stress and go play one of the other 300 MMO's launched in the last 8 years. There is a WIDE variety of choice to appease your entertainment.

Why suffer; unless you enjoy that pain???

Edited, Nov 5th 2012 12:27pm by Elionara
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#42 Nov 05 2012 at 6:14 PM Rating: Default
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This dude still posting his confused incoherent complaints about an unreleased game? Cool.
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#43 Nov 06 2012 at 8:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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On a bright note, male mithra + dalamud horn will bring me even closer to being a unicorn ^^
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#44 Nov 06 2012 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Please stop making complaining topics... The forum was nice and peaceful but here comes the complaints version 2.0, and somehow this needed it's own topic.


I officially retract all of my previous posts and comments. Now I have to go to the Doctor's and get a Lobotomy. Don't need this brain anymore.


/returns 4 hours later.


Edit:Square-Enix is perfect. Final Fantasy XIV will be a perfect game that does not copy anyone, innovates on every level, has not a single flaw, and will make millions for Square-Enix for years to come.


You are posting complaints on stupid things that you haven't experienced yet in a game that is in JP only Alpha. To say that you are getting ahead of yourself is an understatement.

If you were in the alpha, or the beta, by all means, complain TO SQUARE-ENIX. Give them suggestions and comments, help make the game better with feedback.

If, on the other hand, you are looking at a 2 minute youtube video of the alpha and saying you don't like a game mechanic because it was in WoW, go away.
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#45 Nov 06 2012 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Please stop making complaining topics... The forum was nice and peaceful but here comes the complaints version 2.0, and somehow this needed it's own topic.


I officially retract all of my previous posts and comments. Now I have to go to the Doctor's and get a Lobotomy. Don't need this brain anymore.


/returns 4 hours later.


Edit:Square-Enix is perfect. Final Fantasy XIV will be a perfect game that does not copy anyone, innovates on every level, has not a single flaw, and will make millions for Square-Enix for years to come.


You are posting complaints on stupid things that you haven't experienced yet in a game that is in JP only Alpha. To say that you are getting ahead of yourself is an understatement.

If you were in the alpha, or the beta, by all means, complain TO SQUARE-ENIX. Give them suggestions and comments, help make the game better with feedback.

If, on the other hand, you are looking at a 2 minute youtube video of the alpha and saying you don't like a game mechanic because it was in WoW, go away.


/goes away.

On the other hand, those new screenshots look pretty nice. The world looks much more like what I had hoped for. Don't get your panties in a wad, people. These posts are simply to make you think about things so when Alpha/Beta does come, people aren't just going "this is perfect, there's nothing wrong, I want it as-is". Keep an open mind and test it with a discriminating eye, ear, and hand.
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#46 Nov 06 2012 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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Smiley: lol FFXI Was unique and orignal Smiley: lol

Oh Gosh! I do love when clueless people make such idiotic statements.
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#47 Nov 07 2012 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
These posts are simply to make you think about things so when Alpha/Beta does come, people aren't just going "this is perfect, there's nothing wrong, I want it as-is". Keep an open mind and test it with a discriminating eye, ear, and hand.


Are you of the impression that people thought the 1.0 Alpha / Beta was perfect, and that none of us raised our numerous concerns to SE?

Because you are mistaken. The community was VERY vocal, and VERY ignored. That was the single, greatest failure that SE made with 1.0; not listening to the players. Since Yoshi-P, though, they have been very good about this, and claim that they will take he beta feedback very seriously.

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#48 Nov 07 2012 at 1:00 PM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:
These posts are simply to make you think about things so when Alpha/Beta does come, people aren't just going "this is perfect, there's nothing wrong, I want it as-is". Keep an open mind and test it with a discriminating eye, ear, and hand.


Are you of the impression that people thought the 1.0 Alpha / Beta was perfect, and that none of us raised our numerous concerns to SE?

Because you are mistaken. The community was VERY vocal, and VERY ignored. That was the single, greatest failure that SE made with 1.0; not listening to the players. Since Yoshi-P, though, they have been very good about this, and claim that they will take he beta feedback very seriously.



Cool...Louis :) <<<<Okay I actually thought that was funny because my response was going to be simply "cool" but then I noticed your name. Please don't think I meant to offend you or was making fun of your forum name.
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