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#1 Nov 02 2012 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I didn't think much of what I saw personally but posting the link anyway, a JP player posted a video of him playing the game and doing some quests in the pc alpha.

Quite surprised how much they cut the graphics back due to PS3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Yk-ER_50E

Edited, Nov 3rd 2012 1:14pm by preludes
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#2 Nov 02 2012 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seems like it's more the quality of the video than the gfx. Hard to tell.

I'm surprised the video's still up though.
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#3 Nov 02 2012 at 3:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think it looks good personally, can't wait for 2.0 Smiley: thumbsup
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#4 Nov 02 2012 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
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Sprint... I like it :P. I like how combat looks too! It is huge improvement. It seems flashier, more fun, and faster paced. I just really want more info on 2.0 changes!
#5 Nov 02 2012 at 8:34 PM Rating: Good
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I like how that web site have two different play buttons and one of them sends you to a streaming service that people have accused for scamming .
#6 Nov 02 2012 at 10:26 PM Rating: Decent
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preludes wrote:
I didn't think much of what I saw personally but posting the link anyway, a JP player posted a video of him playing the game and doing some quests in the pc alpha.

Quite surprised how much they cut the graphics back due to PS3.

http://www.putlocker.com/file/E230E5E7D4F801F2#


If you look at this and look at the official play video by yoshida back in the last letter you can see that this guy is an idiot with a terrible computer. Notice how big all of the menus and buttons are? How "small" his overall screen space is? It's because he has it set to a really low resolution. That said, I think it looks okay even as is. Definitely not as high-res and realistic as the character models in XIV 1.0 but the art style is nice and it seems to be running okay (except the quality of the video). I am confident that on my pc with resolution set to 1920X1080 running on my 55" LCD it is going to be an amazing looking game.
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#7 Nov 02 2012 at 10:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Also, Click below for a better quality video. I guess he uploaded it to youtube. Looks a BIT better. This is just one of about 11 videos he posted but I believe you can access his channel from here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4XBgJ1192M&feature=BFa&list=UL40oABHC6Sfo
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#8 Nov 02 2012 at 11:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Seems like every other MMORPG made in the last seven or eight years, and I mean that in a bad way, unfortunately. :\
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#9 Nov 03 2012 at 12:03 AM Rating: Default
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ay ya yay those bright neon names need to go!
#10 Nov 03 2012 at 12:17 AM Rating: Good
Little hard to judge anything with those settings. We'll get a better idea once the final phases of beta start coming into play.
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#11 Nov 03 2012 at 4:03 AM Rating: Good
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Yes, looks like your generic Aion-Lineage 2-slurr.
But! Perhaps that's only because so many copies of the same character model are on screen. And marmots.
And, let me be the 500th guy to state this:
IT'S ONLY THE ALPHA, EVERYTHING WILL BE 1000 TIMES BETTER WHEN THE REAL RELEASE DATE DRAWS NEAR!

(tee-hee-hee)
#12 Nov 03 2012 at 6:25 AM Rating: Good
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The quality is really bad... The thing is, I am already expecting a generic mmo when it comes to combat and questing etc so it is all about content for me now.
#13 Nov 03 2012 at 6:40 AM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
Yes, looks like your generic Aion-Lineage 2-slurr.
But! Perhaps that's only because so many copies of the same character model are on screen. And marmots.
And, let me be the 500th guy to state this:
IT'S ONLY THE ALPHA, EVERYTHING WILL BE 1000 TIMES BETTER WHEN THE REAL RELEASE DATE DRAWS NEAR!

(tee-hee-hee)


Let's not do that. Go back to 2010 and look at FFXIV 1.0 alpha compared to launch. I remember playing the alpha and being like "oh yea it'll get better." I'm still waiting....
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#14 Nov 03 2012 at 8:02 AM Rating: Decent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Yes, looks like your generic Aion-Lineage 2-slurr.
But! Perhaps that's only because so many copies of the same character model are on screen. And marmots.
And, let me be the 500th guy to state this:
IT'S ONLY THE ALPHA, EVERYTHING WILL BE 1000 TIMES BETTER WHEN THE REAL RELEASE DATE DRAWS NEAR!

(tee-hee-hee)


Let's not do that. Go back to 2010 and look at FFXIV 1.0 alpha compared to launch. I remember playing the alpha and being like "oh yea it'll get better." I'm still waiting....


With the tee-hee-hee and caps I am pretty sure he was being sarcastic, alluding to the exact same thing you are mentioning.
#15 Nov 03 2012 at 8:22 AM Rating: Default
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Absolutely disgusting.
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#16 Nov 03 2012 at 8:24 AM Rating: Default
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electromagnet83 wrote:

Let's not do that. Go back to 2010 and look at FFXIV 1.0 alpha compared to launch. I remember playing the alpha and being like "oh yea it'll get better." I'm still waiting....


XIV alpha and beta had almost a night and day difference. Too bad that wasn't even nearly enough.

ARR differences won't be nearly as substantial though I bet.
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#17 Nov 03 2012 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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I like how it looks, from what I've seen it looks like they kept some of the same things from 1.0 (the location of certain things in Gridania) while getting rid of a lot of the annoying corridors and copy/pasted environments.

To those saying it's "generic". Yeah, I had a feeling it would be, I see they also dropped a lot of Uematsu's tunes which is sadly something I wouldhave liked to have seen.

Say what you will about the first version, but it sure was unique. I don't think they're willing to take such a risk this time around. I think Yoshi's philosophy (which he mentioned some time back) was to include things that worked in other games then trying new things on top of it. I'm interested to see the summoning system they have planned, and it looks like it isn't in the Alpha version. So I'm still being fairly optimistic.
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#18 Nov 03 2012 at 11:14 AM Rating: Default
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#19 Nov 03 2012 at 12:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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It appears as though the targeting system has improved. Gosh I sure hope so.
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#20 Nov 03 2012 at 3:29 PM Rating: Default
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Don't get your hopes up. This looks like a hot mess.
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#21 Nov 03 2012 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
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preludes wrote:
I didn't think much of what I saw personally but posting the link anyway, a JP player posted a video of him playing the game and doing some quests in the pc alpha.

Quite surprised how much they cut the graphics back due to PS3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Yk-ER_50E

Edited, Nov 3rd 2012 1:14pm by preludes


How can you tell anything about the graphics from that video??
#22 Nov 03 2012 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Looks disappointing... Least 1.0 had a certain unique feel, this just looks like... the same as everything else.
Kind of makes having been a legacy member unimportant if they carry on along this direction. Gnna have to do some real magic to differentiate itself enough.
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#23 Nov 03 2012 at 8:00 PM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
To those saying it's "generic". Yeah, I had a feeling it would be, I see they also dropped a lot of Uematsu's tunes which is sadly something I wouldhave liked to have seen.


True.

I loved the actual themes represented in the soundtrack of 1.0. They were catchy, fun, and easy listening -- typical Uematsu. The problem is they didn't fit the damned game's atmosphere at all for the most part (with a few exceptions), and the weak synths used were really jarring when contrasted in the world you were playing.

I can't help but wonder if it's just due to his getting older and as a composer he's just got that style and doesn't want to really deviate from it (it happens to any popular composer). Lost Odyssey was a good OST with a few... quirky... tracks, but FFXIV's and Last Story (outside of the title screen/main theme) are two of his most recent soundtracks and to me it just feels like he really dropped the ball.

Leaving the rest of post Vanilla FFXI to Naoshi Mizuta was probably the best decision made for the game. Does anyone know if he'll be taking over the reigns for FFXIV as well? If so, that'll help set the tone for the game immensely.

catwho wrote:
It appears as though the targeting system has improved. Gosh I sure hope so.


I would say it couldn't get much worse than 1.0, but then I can imagine a developer jumping up and saying "CHARRENGE ACCEPTED!!"

Edited, Nov 3rd 2012 10:02pm by Viertel
#24 Nov 04 2012 at 8:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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"CHARRENGE ACCEPTED!!"


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#25 Nov 04 2012 at 8:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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The one thing I notice most is all the people who are around all the time, no matter where this guy runs.

Whenever I took a jog down the streets of Ul'Dah, everyone would "disappear" for a good minute or so, even the NPCs. It was awful how so few characters could be drawn and how it would take forever to draw what actually was around you if you wandered too far too fast.

So I feel like I'll finally get to experience FFXIV as a normal looking MMO for once.
#26 Nov 04 2012 at 8:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Xoie wrote:
The one thing I notice most is all the people who are around all the time, no matter where this guy runs.

Whenever I took a jog down the streets of Ul'Dah, everyone would "disappear" for a good minute or so, even the NPCs. It was awful how so few characters could be drawn and how it would take forever to draw what actually was around you if you wandered too far too fast.

So I feel like I'll finally get to experience FFXIV as a normal looking MMO for once.


That also applied to monsters in the field. So you thought the area you were exploring was pretty empty and safe, until the level 70 monsters suddenly loaded around you.
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#27 Nov 04 2012 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Seems like every other MMORPG made in the last seven or eight years, and I mean that in a bad way, unfortunately. :\


People were being told to shut up and go die if you even hint at this. Whelp any chance for XIV to succeed went out the window. It will benefit from "omg new MMO" for a few months, then people will go right back to their usual business of older MMOs.

Why choose XIV when I can choose an already established MMO with no doubt more content and have the same visual experience? The music even sounds like a generic MMO you can get from Gpotato.

Edited, Nov 4th 2012 7:19am by Theonehio
#28 Nov 04 2012 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Theonehio wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Seems like every other MMORPG made in the last seven or eight years, and I mean that in a bad way, unfortunately. :\


People were being told to shut up and go die if you even hint at this. Whelp any chance for XIV to succeed went out the window. It will benefit from "omg new MMO" for a few months, then people will go right back to their usual business of older MMOs.

Why choose XIV when I can choose an already established MMO with no doubt more content and have the same visual experience? The music even sounds like a generic MMO you can get from Gpotato.

Edited, Nov 4th 2012 7:19am by Theonehio


I see what you're all saying; but I can't think of one game which matched the artistic style of XIV; 1 or 2. I went through about 50 of the list below and most were either SD, over saturated with vibrant colors or just plain ugly.

Name Type Publisher Release Date
Serenia Fantasy Fantasy KoramGame ... 2012
Dungeon Rampage Fantasy Rebel Ente... 2012
Wings of Destiny Fantasy IGG 11/13/2012
Deepworld Fantasy Bytebin St... 10/19/2012
Stronghold Kingdoms Fantasy Firefly St... 10/17/2012
Iron Grip: Marauders Sci-Fi ISOTX 9/30/2012
World of Warcraft: Mis.. Fantasy Blizzard E... 9/25/2012
Torchlight 2 Fantasy Runic Game... 9/20/2012
Endless Blue Moon Onli.. Fantasy NorthHarri... 9/10/2012
Knight Age Fantasy Joymax 9/4/2012
Asda 2 Fantasy MaxOn Soft 8/30/2012
Guild Wars 2 Fantasy ArenaNet 8/28/2012
Clash of Clans Fantasy Supercell 8/2/2012
Tynon Fantasy uCool, Inc... 7/26/2012
Divina Fantasy Gamania Di... 7/25/2012
Brick-Force Fantasy Exe Games ... 7/12/2012
Continent of the Ninth.. Fantasy Webzen Inc... 7/11/2012
Battle of 3 Kingdoms Historical iG-Interac... 7/11/2012
The Secret World Real Life Funcom 7/3/2012
Island Forge Fantasy Potential ... 7/2/2012
Diablo 3 Fantasy Blizzard E... 5/15/2012
Realm of the Titans Fantasy Aeria Game... 5/9/2012
The Pride of Taern Fantasy Whitemoon 5/4/2012
TERA Fantasy Bluehole S... 5/1/2012
Dark Legends Horror Spacetime ... 5/1/2012
World of Battles Fantasy Frogwares 4/15/2012
Roll n Rock Fantasy Aeria Game... 4/13/2012
MetalMercs Sci-Fi Fondamenta... 4/13/2012
Tribes: Ascend Sci-Fi Hi-Rez Stu... 4/12/2012
Seven Souls Online Fantasy Neowiz Gam... 3/28/2012
Dungeon Blitz Fantasy Blue Mammo... 3/26/2012
Soul of Guardian Fantasy WSGame 3/16/2012
Wakfu Fantasy Ankama Gam... 2/29/2012
Anime Trumps Fantasy NGames Lim... 2/29/2012
Einherjar - The Viking.. Fantasy KBMJ 2/22/2012
Wargame1942 Historical Playzo 2/16/2012
Dragon Eternity Fantasy Q1 LLC 2/15/2012
Pirate Storm Fantasy Bigpoint 2/14/2012
Lands of Hope: Phoenix.. Fantasy Forlorn Ga... 2/1/2012
Hero Zero Super-Hero Playata Gm... 1/18/2012
Mythos Fantasy HanbitSoft 2011
Battlestar Galactica O.. Sci-Fi Bigpoint 2011
Remnant Knights Fantasy Min Commun... 2011
A Mystical Land Fantasy Mad Otter ... 2011
9mm Online Real Life Beehive 2011
Space Heroes Universe Sci-Fi Bubblegum ... 2011
Castle Empire Historical UBISoft 2011
Dragon Saga Fantasy Gravity Ga... 2011
DDTank Fantasy Aeria Game... 2011
Elsword Fantasy KOG 2011
Heroes in the Sky Historical OnNet USA 2011
Spiral Knights Fantasy Three Ring... 2011
Golden Age Fantasy Aeria Game... 2011
Romadoria Historical Looki 2011
Star Corsairs Sci-Fi Machine 22 2011
Call of Thrones Fantasy Yeepgame 12/30/2011
Realm of the Mad God Fantasy Wild Shado... 12/30/2011
Monkey Quest Fantasy bE Havior 12/30/2011
Star Wars: The Old Rep.. Sci-Fi BioWare 12/20/2011
War of the Immortals Fantasy Perfect Wo... 12/15/2011
Brawl Busters Fantasy Weezor 12/15/2011
ROSH Online Fantasy Galaxy Gat... 12/6/2011
Divine Souls Fantasy GamePrix 2011
Dungeon Overlord Fantasy Night Owl ... 12/1/2011
SD Gundam Capsule Figh.. Sci-Fi Softmax 12/1/2011
Light of Nova Sci-Fi Joyfort En... 12/1/2011
eRepublik Real Life eRepublik ... 11/30/2011
War of Thrones Fantasy Voomga 11/11/2011
Nadirim Fantasy Twisted Tr... 11/7/2011
Call of Gods Fantasy Boyojoy 2011
World of the Living De.. Horror Dave Barto... Q3 2011
Dragon Nest Fantasy Eyedentity... 9/27/2011
Luvinia Online Fantasy Shanda Gam... 9/22/2011
Rusty Hearts Fantasy Stairway G... 9/20/2011
Rise of Immortals Fantasy Petroglyph... 9/12/2011
Dawn of Fantasy Fantasy Reverie Wo... 9/6/2011
APB: Reloaded Real Life Reloaded P... 8/31/2011
Castlot Fantasy ClapAlong 8/30/2011
Age of Empires Online Historical Gas Powere... 8/16/2011
Star Legends Sci-Fi Spacetime ... 8/11/2011
Scarlet Legacy Fantasy InterServ 8/4/2011
World of Heroes Fantasy FeeSee 7/29/2011
Lucent Heart Fantasy Gamania Di... 2011
Star Supremacy Sci-Fi Barbily In... 7/15/2011
Hellgate Horror HanbitSoft 2011
Gods and Heroes: Rome .. Historical Heatwave I... 6/21/2011
Rising of King Fantasy Yeepgame 6/17/2011
Eden Eternal Fantasy X-Legend 6/16/2011
Empire & State Real Life Novel, Inc... Q2 2011
Illyriad Fantasy Illyriad G... 5/16/2011
Realms Online Fantasy ngd Studio... 5/3/2011
Order & Chaos Online Fantasy Gameloft 4/27/2011
ARGO Online Fantasy MGame 4/21/2011
Aerrevan Fantasy CubeForce ... 2011
WarFlow Fantasy Aiyou Netw... 4/19/2011
Marvel Super Hero Squa.. Super-Hero The Amazin... 4/15/2011
World of Tanks Historical Wargaming.... 4/12/2011
Colony of War Sci-Fi PLLEA 4/1/2011
Pockie Ninja Fantasy NGames Lim... 3/30/2011
Dead Earth Sci-Fi Dominic Sk... 3/30/2011
Dreamlords: Resurrecti.. Fantasy Lockpick E... 3/10/2011
Forsaken World Fantasy Perfect Wo... 3/9/2011
Rift Fantasy Trion Worl... 3/1/2011
Xsyon: Prelude Sci-Fi Notorious ... 3/1/2011
Céiron Wars: Sound of .. Fantasy Ceidot Gam... Q1 2011
Pandora Saga Fantasy Atlus Onli... 2/15/2011
Overkings Fantasy Overkings ... 2/1/2011
Bloodline Champions Fantasy Stunlock S... 1/13/2011
DC Universe Online Super-Hero Sony Onlin... 1/11/2011
Crystal Saga Fantasy R2 Games Q1 2011
Godswar Online Fantasy IGG 2010
Destiny Online Fantasy Netgame Di... 2010
Galaxy Online 2 Sci-Fi IGG 2010
Dragon Oath Fantasy ChangYou.c... 2010
Zodiac Online Fantasy Goldcool G... 2010
Aika Fantasy JoyImpact 2010
Heroes of Gaia Fantasy Snail Game... 2010
Lords Online Fantasy IGG 2010
Battle of the Immortal.. Fantasy Perfect Wo... 2010
Tales of Fantasy Fantasy Lingo Soft 2010
Business Tycoon Online Real Life Dovogame L... 2010
Blade Wars Fantasy ChangYou.c... 2010
Tales of Pirates II Fantasy MOLI Co.,L... 2010
Dynasty Warriors Onlin.. Historical Techmo Koe... Q4 2010
Uncharted Waters Onlin.. Real Life TECMO KOEI Q4 2010
Canaan Online Fantasy Xpec 2010
Cultures Online Historical Gamigo 2010
DarkOrbit Sci-Fi Bigpoint G... 2010
Golf Star Sports Coms2Us 2010
Grepolis Historical InnoGames ... 2010
Loong Fantasy Gamigo 2010
Martial Empires Fantasy Gamigo 2010
Might & Magic Heroes: .. Fantasy UBISoft 2010
Nemexia Sci-Fi XS Softwar... 2010
Project Blackout Real Life Zepetto 2010
Supremacy 1914 Historical Bytro Labs 12/31/2010
Terra Militaris Historical Snail Game... 12/31/2010
Tribal Wars Historical InnoGames ... 2010
Kiwarriors Fantasy Gonzalo Pa... 12/31/2010
The Stratagems Historical Joyfort En... 2010
Naviage: The Power of .. Historical Yeepgame 12/31/2010
War of Angels Fantasy NJ Interac... 12/15/2010
Maestia: Rise of Keled.. Fantasy Gravity In... 11/30/2010
Perpetuum Sci-Fi Avatar Cre... 11/25/2010
Ministry of War Historical Snail Game... 11/17/2010
Origins Return Sci-Fi Virtual De... 10/30/2010
Vindictus Fantasy devCAT 2010
Dead Frontier Horror Jagged Bla... 2010
War of 2012 Fantasy Beijing Zh... 10/1/2010
Fists of Fu Fantasy BL Interac... Q3 2010
Dragon's Call Fantasy Ray Media ... 2010
Star Wars: Clone Wars .. Sci-Fi Sony Onlin... 9/15/2010
QuickHit Football Sports Play Hard ... 9/8/2010
Microvolts Fantasy SK imedia 8/30/2010
Hello Kitty Online Fantasy Sanrio Dig... 8/24/2010
Red Stone Fantasy L and K Lo... 2010
RappelzSEA Fantasy Gala Lab 7/30/2010
Need for Speed World Real Life EA Vancouv... 7/27/2010
EuroGangster Real Life EuroGangst... 7/7/2010
Caesary Historical Heroica Er... 7/3/2010
Mortal Online Fantasy Star Vault 6/9/2010
Dungeon Fighter Online Fantasy Neople 6/9/2010
Heroes Of Newerth Fantasy S2 Games 5/12/2010
Digimon Masters Online Fantasy Digitalic ... 4/14/2010
Pocket Legends Fantasy Spacetime ... 4/8/2010
Land of Chaos Online Fantasy Burda Inte... 3/8/2010
Allods Online Fantasy Mail.Ru Ga... 2/16/2010
Dragon Ball Online Fantasy NTL Inc. 2/15/2010
Star Trek Online Sci-Fi Cryptic St... 2/2/2010
Global Agenda Sci-Fi Hi-Rez Stu... 2/1/2010
Kingory Historical Joyport 2009
Desert Operations Fantasy Looki 12/31/2009
EpicDuel Sci-Fi Battleon E... 12/30/2009
My Lands Fantasy Gravvit, L... 12/30/2009
Face of Mankind Sci-Fi Duplex Sys... 2009
Alganon Fantasy Quest Onli... 12/1/2009
Lost Saga Fantasy IO Enterta... 11/17/2009
Blitz1941 Historical Mowell Sof... 11/11/2009
Bright Shadow Fantasy Gamania Di... 11/11/2009
CloudNine Fantasy MGame Q4 2009
League of Legends Fantasy Riot Games 10/27/2009
Soul of the Ultimate N.. Fantasy Webzen Inc... 10/21/2009
Dragonica Online World Fantasy Barunson I... 10/15/2009
Fallen Earth Sci-Fi Fallen Ear... 9/22/2009
Aion Fantasy NCSoft 9/22/2009
Sudden Attack Real Life GameHi 9/18/2009
Champions Online Super-Hero Cryptic St... 9/1/2009
CrimeCraft Real Life Vogster En... 8/25/2009
Gates of Andaron Fantasy Zemi Inter... 7/29/2009
Omerta 3 Real Life Omerta Gam... 7/8/2009
Ether Saga Online Fantasy Perfect Wo... 2009
Jade Dynasty Fantasy Perfect Wo... 6/15/2009
Myth War 2 Fantasy UNIGIUM 5/20/2009
Dungeon Party Fantasy Cyanide Ga... 5/15/2009
Twelve Sky 2 Fantasy ALT1 5/14/2009
Project Powder Sports Studio Blu... 5/8/2009
Evony Historical Regan Merc... 5/6/2009
Free Realms Fantasy Sony Onlin... 4/28/2009
Pirate Galaxy Sci-Fi Splitscree... 4/25/2009
Magic World Online Fantasy Goldcool G... 4/19/2009
Gate to Heavens Fantasy JYSTech 4/16/2009
Runes of Magic Fantasy Runewaker ... 3/19/2009
Zero Online: The Andro.. Sci-Fi 91 Enterta... 3/1/2009
Darkfall Fantasy Aventurine... 2/22/2009
War of Legends Historical Ultizen 1/19/2009
FusionFall Super-Hero Grigon Ent... 1/14/2009
Orion's Belt Sci-Fi Pedro Sant... 1/12/2009
NosTale Fantasy Entwell Co... 1/1/2009
Football SuperStars Sports Monumental... 12/31/2008
Angels Online Fantasy UserJoy Te... 2008
Fantage Fantasy Fantage 12/31/2008
Shin Megami Tensei: Im.. Sci-Fi Cave Co. 12/21/2008
Parallel Kingdom Fantasy PerBlue 11/4/2008
Aurora Blade Fantasy IGG 11/1/2008
Atlantica Online Fantasy NDoors Int... 10/30/2008
Florensia Fantasy NetTimeSof... 10/16/2008
Splash Fighters Fantasy CyberStep 10/16/2008
AdventureQuest Worlds Fantasy Artix Ente... 10/10/2008
Lunia: Record of Lunia.. Fantasy allm 10/7/2008
Rivality Real Life FunRock Me... 10/1/2008
S4 League Sci-Fi GameOn Stu... 9/30/2008
Pixie Hollow Fantasy Walt Disne... 9/20/2008
Warhammer Online: Age .. Fantasy BioWare My... 9/18/2008
La Tale Fantasy Actoz Soft 9/18/2008
Perfect World Internat.. Fantasy Perfect Wo... 9/2/2008
Wizard101 Fantasy KingsIsle ... 9/2/2008
Wonderland Online Fantasy Chinese Ga... 9/1/2008
Requiem: Memento Mori Horror Gravity In... 6/19/2008
Wild West Online: Gunf.. Historical Tenderfoot... 5/31/2008
Heroes of Might and Ma.. Fantasy TQ Digital... 5/30/2008
Rohan: Blood Feud Fantasy YNK Games 5/28/2008
Age of Conan: Unchaine.. Fantasy Funcom 5/20/2008
Myst Online: URU Live Fantasy Cyan World... 4/10/2008
Goal Line Blitz Sports GoalLineBl... 3/31/2008
Ikariam Historical Gameforge Q1 2008
Mabinogi Fantasy devCAT 3/27/2008
Talisman Online Fantasy Miracle Ca... 3/12/2008
Grand Chase Fantasy KOG Studio... 3/8/2008
SAGA Fantasy Silverlode... 3/4/2008
DarkEden Horror SOFTON Ent... 2/12/2008
Pirates of the Burning.. Historical Flying Lab... 1/22/2008
Supreme Destiny Fantasy JoyImpact ... 2007
Last Chaos Fantasy Nako Enter... 2007
CABAL Online Fantasy ESTsoft 2007
Bounty Bay Online Historical Snail Game 2007
Dekaron Fantasy GameHi 2007
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Darkwind: War on Wheel.. Sci-Fi Sam Redfer... 5/4/2007
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Voyage Century Online Historical Snail Game... 4/8/2007
Pirate King Online Fantasy MOLI Co.,L... 3/30/2007
GalaXseeds Sci-Fi Corus Ente... 2/14/2007
Scions of Fate (Yulgan.. Fantasy NetGame 2/2/2007
Vanguard: Saga of Hero.. Fantasy Sony Onlin... 1/30/2007
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333 "MMORPGs" have been released in the last 8 years. Only a few are worth it. There's lots of resources on the net with 1080p shots. Comparing those with these other MMORPGs I can't see XIV in any of them. The closest is XI and that's because of the laid back use of color and FF style.

Maybe I'm not understand what people are saying; is it the game-play everyone hates so much? Do they want a really hard core game? Is it the graphics? The new idea behind XIV is to not only cater to the old FF crowd but also to gain ground with non FF fans.

Sticking to how XI was will only net them what they had before. ~500k people. People don't have hours a day anymore. Our generation is getting older (the ones that love hard core stuff). Sure I miss it; but I also myself with family don't have much time anymore. So I can appreciate where the game is heading. Think of the younger gamers now; they have the attention span of a dog in heat. They jump from one thing to the next; everything is out-dated to them and they always have to have the newest thing. MMO's as we know them may be dead; and if there is one that was how we used to play then in all probability it will be a niche game with a small but loyal fan-base.

IMHO XIV doesn't "look" like every MMO released in the last 8 years, but it may play like them. Standard keyboard layout/gui layout. Really; keyboard controls, gui layout, game features (while presented in a different way here/there) should be the same, just like nearly every FPS is the same. As Yoshi said; he wants a defacto standard when you pickup the game you walk into it; you know the keyboard already; you know there will be click quests here, cut-scenes there, battles around the corner.

What will really make the difference in this game is the story for some; but mostly the community. For anyone that hates it so much, the best thing to do is just not play it. Think of your work, or home. If a co-worker; or someone in your family was so poisonous with their words and thoughts and as much as they hated it; still came to work or still did the same thing day to day, but all they did was complain? What happens? It affects everyone and makes them not enjoy it either.

I ended up not having a linkshell just for that; because all anyone did was complain about the game the entire time they were in it; but like a crack addicted junkie they just kept playing lol...

I really hope every naysayer can spare a night out at the movies, pickup a copy and actually try the game on release again. I'm not talking level 5 either, really give it a good go for your free month. If it's really that bad; no foul. I wish you all an enjoyable journey however :) In what ever you play.
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Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

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#29 Nov 04 2012 at 11:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Even if only 500K people stick around for the long term, that's nothing to sneeze at. That's a steady ROI of five million dollars a month, or sixty million a year. If the release price for the PS3 version is $39.99, and they sell half a million copies of that over the first couple of months, they've recouped twenty million dollars without a single person having to subscribe.

They won't recoup the development costs for XIV in a single year. But if they can convince 500K players to stick with it for ten years, like folks have done with XI, then they have a decent shot of recovering their investment and eventually turning a profit.

At this point SE has to play a long game. If they play for a short game, they lose. And if they fail at the long game, which is still a possibility, they lose. And if they lose - they go under. No more Square Enix. (Some white knight might ride in to rescue them to get the IP in their portfolio, like Enix did to Square before, but then we'll end up with a company that is once again completely different.)

This is their last chance, and I think they realize it.
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#30 Nov 04 2012 at 11:19 AM Rating: Default
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catwho wrote:
Even if only 500K people stick around for the long term, that's nothing to sneeze at. That's a steady ROI of five million dollars a month, or sixty million a year. If the release price for the PS3 version is $39.99, and they sell half a million copies of that over the first couple of months, they've recouped twenty million dollars without a single person having to subscribe.

They won't recoup the development costs for XIV in a single year. But if they can convince 500K players to stick with it for ten years, like folks have done with XI, then they have a decent shot of recovering their investment and eventually turning a profit.

At this point SE has to play a long game. If they play for a short game, they lose. And if they fail at the long game, which is still a possibility, they lose. And if they lose - they go under. No more Square Enix. (Some white knight might ride in to rescue them to get the IP in their portfolio, like Enix did to Square before, but then we'll end up with a company that is once again completely different.)

This is their last chance, and I think they realize it.


Oh I agree with you 100%. I think at last count they've almost passed the development cost of SWTOR (based on earnings calls and financial statements) If they could sell 10million copies though; that would break even ^.~

With 500,000 people they could become profitable after year 4 or so. I'm just not sure what everyone is looking for in the game personally. Half of my old linkshell just wished they re-skinned XI and be done with it. I'm still rooting for them though; my enjoyment of the game isn't even near dead. I just want friendly people to play with :)
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Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#31 Nov 04 2012 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
Even if only 500K people stick around for the long term, that's nothing to sneeze at. That's a steady ROI of five million dollars a month, or sixty million a year. If the release price for the PS3 version is $39.99, and they sell half a million copies of that over the first couple of months, they've recouped twenty million dollars without a single person having to subscribe.

They won't recoup the development costs for XIV in a single year. But if they can convince 500K players to stick with it for ten years, like folks have done with XI, then they have a decent shot of recovering their investment and eventually turning a profit.

At this point SE has to play a long game. If they play for a short game, they lose. And if they fail at the long game, which is still a possibility, they lose. And if they lose - they go under. No more Square Enix. (Some white knight might ride in to rescue them to get the IP in their portfolio, like Enix did to Square before, but then we'll end up with a company that is once again completely different.)

This is their last chance, and I think they realize it.


FFXI was ok with 200k (peaking at 500k for a very short time) players because it cost lol12 million to create, it still took them 5 years to make the money back as they stated, 5 years to make back 12 million. FFXIV needs millions of players (because the budget is massive) and they need to do something almost no other mmo has been able to do for 8 years, hold most of them there for more than a month. If FFXIV doesn't get huge sales numbers and keep all those players for a long time it will be a spectacular failure, it has to make it's budget back while running the servers, running customer service staff and having a large sized dev team working on new content. You also need to factor in that MMOs have now changed, they used to start small and build more players, these days people all buy into them at launch, it peaks early and it's all downhill from there. Given that, it has to be **** near perfect at launch and have a lot of content so people don't get bored and go back to the old games.

The problem really is that FFXIV doesn't seem to be trying to be the best at anything, indeed it's trying to be generic wow clone when people and reviewers are slating games for doing that. Tera offers better graphics and battle system, SWTOR offers an amazing story with fully recorded voice acting based on the SW world, WoW is king of endgame content, Gw2 offers good no sub MMO experience and FFXI offers a popular FF old school MMO experience (it's even being given a new expansion around the same time as this launches). New non mmo games are coming out faster than people can finish the old ones which also hits MMOs because it stops the addictive nature of these games catching hold of you. Players expectations are incredibly sky high too, especailly from P2P titles.

The MMO market used to be a kiddy pool when FFXI launched, you could get away with almost anything and you could hook your players and keep them for a long time. The market today is a shark infested pirahna tank, it has to compete with very heavy hitters, has to contend with players that question why the game isn't free to play and that will simply dump a game if it fails on any number of small things or annoys them. If FFXI would of launched these days it would of died before the year was out, it infuriated you as a player, had very little content and added new content at a snails pace.. yet you put up with it back then. That would never fly today.

I think the biggest problem with XIV players is they seem to have very little outside MMO experience, if they did they would see it's going to be nowhere near as easy as they think it will to turn this game around.

Quote:
Half of my old linkshell just wished they re-skinned XI and be done with it.


That's a big part of the problem, they have to compete with thier own title ontop of everything else.
#32 Nov 04 2012 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
I'd love to see XIV reach 500k users, but considering it had about 40,000 at launch and immediately lost about 30,000, not sure where the sub base will end up. Obviously ps3 users add some players, and opening the game to china does too, but I think they'll have a hard time finding 460,000 new users. I think p2p mmos are simply on the decline, with only a few maintaining a solid base due to their release dates, WoW, XI, etc. TOR had a great start and that crashed fast, mostly cause the game was a WoW clone, but it had the best chance to keep the p2p model going strong.

I'd be happy to play xiv on a few populated servers, but this game needs quite a few to make expansions and content worth the production costs.
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#33 Nov 04 2012 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I'd love to see XIV reach 500k users, but considering it had about 40,000 at launch and immediately lost about 30,000, not sure where the sub base will end up


Where do people keep getting these numbers? There's no way the game had that few users purchase the software or they may well have given up or at least shut the servers down while developing.
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#34 Nov 04 2012 at 7:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
TOR had a great start and that crashed fast, mostly cause the game was a WoW clone, but it had the best chance to keep the p2p model going strong.


No, TOR failed because the developers focused on pulling the wrong aspects from current gen MMOs and didn't bother to try to add a lot of quality-of-life improvements that had been around. Bug fixes were extremely slow or non-existant, the entire gearing process with mods invalidated all endgame gear, and the majority of the terrain was simply there to be there. Stupid decisions all around, not to mention the flying missions screamed "BOT ME PLZ!!!!"
#35 Nov 04 2012 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
Perrin wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I'd love to see XIV reach 500k users, but considering it had about 40,000 at launch and immediately lost about 30,000, not sure where the sub base will end up


Where do people keep getting these numbers? There's no way the game had that few users purchase the software or they may well have given up or at least shut the servers down while developing.


There were probably a ton who bought it, but the number that stuck around until paid subs kicked in is significantly lower. I mean they went from 18 to 9 servers, which at launch had 2500 players online during peak times. So ya, initial playerbase was probably way higher, but within a couple months, and prior to them removing the search pop function, server had 600-1000 players online. The merge then had what, 1000-1800 during peak times? So I guess my argument should be paid, active players, since quick math would show way more then 40,000 at launch.
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#36 Nov 04 2012 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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Perrin wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I'd love to see XIV reach 500k users, but considering it had about 40,000 at launch and immediately lost about 30,000, not sure where the sub base will end up


Where do people keep getting these numbers? There's no way the game had that few users purchase the software or they may well have given up or at least shut the servers down while developing.


I checked around a little. There are a couple websites that list some information about total units sold.

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/35106/final-fantasy-xiv-online/
Total Units
North America: 0.35m 53.2%
+ Europe: 0.22m 33.9%
+ Rest of the World: 0.08m 12.9%
= Global 0.66m

and http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/31364/Square_Enix_Ships_630000_FFXIV_Copies_Working_On_Regaining_Trust.php
claims 0.63M.

That said I'm not sure how repuatable the information is... I did find a few other sites that gave a similar numbers though.

Edited, Nov 4th 2012 10:42pm by kainsilv
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#37 Nov 04 2012 at 10:14 PM Rating: Decent
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So it sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 600,000 units? Is that at launch, or over time?

Because since it dropped down to $10 in the last year, they made between six million and twenty four million on initial sales.

Edited, Nov 4th 2012 11:16pm by catwho
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#38 Nov 04 2012 at 10:33 PM Rating: Good
The only problem with those articles, it always states shipped and not sold. So unless SE gives their own details, I don't think we'll ever know.
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#39 Nov 05 2012 at 2:09 AM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
So it sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 600,000 units? Is that at launch, or over time?

Because since it dropped down to $10 in the last year, they made between six million and twenty four million on initial sales.

Edited, Nov 4th 2012 11:16pm by catwho


"Shipped" means boxes made and sent to suppliers, and digital codes created. It doesn't mean they were sold to a customer, simply that the shops like amazon bought what they thought it would sell (the massive price drop showed how little it actually sold since Amazon were stuck with them and selling incredibly cheap). Most were as stated sold off very cheap to get rid of the stock, problem with this is they have to try to honour the promise that all those players that bought the game for $10 now get a free ARR upgrade too. So no doubt SE will add on those 600k initial sales to ARR sales to try pad the numbers for PR, so if ARR sells 500k units they will state 1.1 million.

Also they found out number of active players because a JP guy used a program to scan lodestone and then repeated it over a couple of weeks to see if there were any changes at all. Doing that he found out how many players were actually playing the game due to changes in their lodestone profiles, given that expect lodestone to either work different with v2 or not to work at all.

Edited, Nov 5th 2012 3:11am by Runespider
#40 Nov 05 2012 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I know that at launch back on 2010 there where over 200k units sold confirm in the USA. It was confirm that over 500K units were sold of FFXIV at launch. You have to remeber that SE has confirm that the player base on each server is 5k players per server. So any server that was consider full had 5k accounts attach to it. So for 9 servers that roughtly 45k accounts. I know that does not mean 45k players since I know several people with 2 or 3 accounts.

I think SE is hopping that those 500k players comeback and try ARR, plus you have to consider everyone that purchased a CE has 2 accounts per box. I personally gave my buddypass to my brother to play. So for the launch of ARR there is a posible over 500 players along just from the people that quite FFXIV plus any PS3 players that buys the game.


Edited, Nov 5th 2012 10:49am by FedeMax
#41 Nov 05 2012 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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Runespider wrote:
catwho wrote:
So it sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 600,000 units? Is that at launch, or over time?

Because since it dropped down to $10 in the last year, they made between six million and twenty four million on initial sales.

Edited, Nov 4th 2012 11:16pm by catwho


"Shipped" means boxes made and sent to suppliers, and digital codes created. It doesn't mean they were sold to a customer, simply that the shops like amazon bought what they thought it would sell (the massive price drop showed how little it actually sold since Amazon were stuck with them and selling incredibly cheap). Most were as stated sold off very cheap to get rid of the stock, problem with this is they have to try to honour the promise that all those players that bought the game for $10 now get a free ARR upgrade too. So no doubt SE will add on those 600k initial sales to ARR sales to try pad the numbers for PR, so if ARR sells 500k units they will state 1.1 million.

Also they found out number of active players because a JP guy used a program to scan lodestone and then repeated it over a couple of weeks to see if there were any changes at all. Doing that he found out how many players were actually playing the game due to changes in their lodestone profiles, given that expect lodestone to either work different with v2 or not to work at all.


The PC edition of FFXIV has sold 660k globally, according to VGChartz, and that excludes sales in Japan who are refusing to post their numbers (presumably to hide SE's shame Edit: see below). Mind you, many of those sales were probably at a discounted rate since the game flubbed early on, but it's not inconceivable that there are a million potential players out there on PC alone (but keep in mind, many have probably moved on over the past two years).

If the PS3 edition sells well, things may yet turn around for the game. But even if there isn't much revenue from PC boxes, the vast majority of the income comes from continued subscriptions, anyway. I think keeping it easy to let disgruntled PC players take another go at it is probably the best thing they can do under the circumstances if they have any hope of maximizing the most subs they can get.

(Edit): Seriously. The press works differently in Japan. It's not like in most of the western world where everyone is trying to "out-scoop" the other and you can't possibly contain a story. In Japan, if someone politely asks for a story to be blocked for a good reason (i.e. SE wanted another chance), everyone in the press will agree to block it, and that's why the sales figures read 0 in Japan for FFXIV. No one will report those sales figures. You can't find them anywhere.

Edited, Nov 6th 2012 4:19am by Xoie
#42 Nov 05 2012 at 6:27 PM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Yes, looks like your generic Aion-Lineage 2-slurr.
But! Perhaps that's only because so many copies of the same character model are on screen. And marmots.
And, let me be the 500th guy to state this:
IT'S ONLY THE ALPHA, EVERYTHING WILL BE 1000 TIMES BETTER WHEN THE REAL RELEASE DATE DRAWS NEAR!

(tee-hee-hee)


Let's not do that. Go back to 2010 and look at FFXIV 1.0 alpha compared to launch. I remember playing the alpha and being like "oh yea it'll get better." I'm still waiting....


Effing facepalm.
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#43 Nov 06 2012 at 1:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
So for the launch of ARR there is a posible over 500 players along just from the people that quite FFXIV plus any PS3 players that buys the game.

I heard there's a POSSIBLE seven billion players on this planet.
Joking aside - I think the actual number is considerably over 9000.

#44 Nov 06 2012 at 5:14 AM Rating: Default
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The numbers in VGchart are units shipped, they have been the same since the release of the game, and yes there are 8+ billion possible FFXIV players on the face of this planet... But let's be realistic Smiley: glare

Final Fantasy as a franchise has sold over 80 million units worldwide( I think they sold 100 million or something cannot confirm to early in the morning to remember.) Just taking FFVII alone, it sold 10 million units... now if you look at how many people actually played FFXI(The game every fan boy loves to take the conversation back too.) it capped at 500k Subscribers. That is half a million out of 100 million final fantasy players(Sure there are people that have bought the same game 3 times... I am looking at you FFIV!) so lets say 500k out of 90 million... That is a sad comparison..... We can safely assume that not every person that has played a FF will play a FF online.... And for people that say "Final Fantasy is not for everybody" Please kill yourself, Final Fantasy is the most mainstream RPG on the face of the planet.
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#45 Nov 06 2012 at 5:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Final Fantasy as a franchise has sold over 80 million units worldwide( I think they sold 100 million or something cannot confirm to early in the morning to remember.) Just taking FFVII alone, it sold 10 million units... now if you look at how many people actually played FFXI(The game every fan boy loves to take the conversation back too.) it capped at 500k Subscribers. That is half a million out of 100 million final fantasy players(Sure there are people that have bought the same game 3 times... I am looking at you FFIV!) so lets say 500k out of 90 million... That is a sad comparison..... We can safely assume that not every person that has played a FF will play a FF online.... And for people that say "Final Fantasy is not for everybody" Please kill yourself, Final Fantasy is the most mainstream RPG on the face of the planet.


Yet FFXI is THE most profitable Final Fantasy entry to date.

And it wasn't even mainstream, it was as hardcore as it gets.
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#46 Nov 06 2012 at 6:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
The numbers in VGchart are units shipped, they have been the same since the release of the game, and yes there are 8+ billion possible FFXIV players on the face of this planet... But let's be realistic Smiley: glare

Final Fantasy as a franchise has sold over 80 million units worldwide( I think they sold 100 million or something cannot confirm to early in the morning to remember.) Just taking FFVII alone, it sold 10 million units... now if you look at how many people actually played FFXI(The game every fan boy loves to take the conversation back too.) it capped at 500k Subscribers. That is half a million out of 100 million final fantasy players(Sure there are people that have bought the same game 3 times... I am looking at you FFIV!) so lets say 500k out of 90 million... That is a sad comparison..... We can safely assume that not every person that has played a FF will play a FF online.... And for people that say "Final Fantasy is not for everybody" Please kill yourself, Final Fantasy is the most mainstream RPG on the face of the planet.


Not to be a douche, but the logic fails. If the franchise has sold 100 million units (and FFVII was 10 million), it's not 100 million final fantasy players. It's maybe 10 million individuals who have each bought each game. Id also wager that the main FF population is a lot less, it's just that FFVII got a huge crowd, so closer to 500k of say... 7-8million (guesstimate)
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#47 Nov 06 2012 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Final Fantasy as a franchise has sold over 80 million units worldwide( I think they sold 100 million or something cannot confirm to early in the morning to remember.) Just taking FFVII alone, it sold 10 million units... now if you look at how many people actually played FFXI(The game every fan boy loves to take the conversation back too.) it capped at 500k Subscribers. That is half a million out of 100 million final fantasy players(Sure there are people that have bought the same game 3 times... I am looking at you FFIV!) so lets say 500k out of 90 million... That is a sad comparison..... We can safely assume that not every person that has played a FF will play a FF online.... And for people that say "Final Fantasy is not for everybody" Please kill yourself, Final Fantasy is the most mainstream RPG on the face of the planet.


Yet FFXI is THE most profitable Final Fantasy entry to date.

And it wasn't even mainstream, it was as hardcore as it gets.


Nobody is arguing if XI was or was not profitable, and FFXI was indeed the mainstream when it was released, it followed the EQ recipe, which was the mainstream before XI, XI was not the exception among MMORPG back then, it was the Norm. I am not attacking nor defending XIV or XI, i am simply stating a fact, not every person who has ever played Final Fantasy is going to play Final Fantasy Online. That is a fact.

But i understand the need bring the pitchforks out.... The game is offline so Smiley: laugh
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#48 Nov 06 2012 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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2,202 posts
crasyk wrote:
Ostia wrote:
The numbers in VGchart are units shipped, they have been the same since the release of the game, and yes there are 8+ billion possible FFXIV players on the face of this planet... But let's be realistic Smiley: glare

Final Fantasy as a franchise has sold over 80 million units worldwide( I think they sold 100 million or something cannot confirm to early in the morning to remember.) Just taking FFVII alone, it sold 10 million units... now if you look at how many people actually played FFXI(The game every fan boy loves to take the conversation back too.) it capped at 500k Subscribers. That is half a million out of 100 million final fantasy players(Sure there are people that have bought the same game 3 times... I am looking at you FFIV!) so lets say 500k out of 90 million... That is a sad comparison..... We can safely assume that not every person that has played a FF will play a FF online.... And for people that say "Final Fantasy is not for everybody" Please kill yourself, Final Fantasy is the most mainstream RPG on the face of the planet.


Not to be a douche, but the logic fails. If the franchise has sold 100 million units (and FFVII was 10 million), it's not 100 million final fantasy players. It's maybe 10 million individuals who have each bought each game. Id also wager that the main FF population is a lot less, it's just that FFVII got a huge crowd, so closer to 500k of say... 7-8million (guesstimate)


Not to be a douche but you just made my point for me Smiley: lol 100 Million Vs 1.1 Million(Both XI and XIV box sales) or 10 Million vs 550k Subs(XI+XIV combined)

Not every Final Fantasy Fan, Will play Final Fantasy Online. Again please do tell me where my logic is wrong :) Numbers do not lie.

And again, i never attacked either game, i simply said not every person who has ever touched a final fantasy is interested or waiting in the fence to jump into Final Fantasy Online, and i provided the data for my opinion. and is not even an opinion is a fact.
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#49 Nov 07 2012 at 3:15 AM Rating: Decent
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4,145 posts
Ostia wrote:
Numbers do not lie.

She told me she was 18...

Posted from San Quentin State Prison

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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#50 Nov 07 2012 at 3:17 AM Rating: Decent
roflmao
#51 Nov 07 2012 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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2,202 posts
Lmao! Smiley: lol
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