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Burned by 1.0, Stoked for 2.0Follow

#1 Nov 04 2012 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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ARR {Can I have it?}!

2.0 is the XIV I was waiting for.

I was all psyched to play back at launch having bought the CE and everything, but sadly rage quit after 1-2 months due to its lackluster identity crisis. Then, after checking in on it on a whim recently and seeing all the progress it's made after these years and by all the hard work of the new Dev Dream Team, it blew me away. Now I can't wait for the 2013 launch.

I really hope all the players who raged furiously at the time forgive that they were burned at launch, and see how hard the new dev's are working to turn things around. I was skeptical about 2.0 at first, thinking it'd turn out just another lofty dream better on paper than practice, but after all the recent changes and road map completion...especially the Gamescom footage and Limit Break trailer...

!@#$ just got real!

I feel bad for ditching it so soon, since I was rooting for another decent FFOnline title. But clearly, I should have had more faith.

{Please forgive me.}




Edited, Nov 12th 2012 11:26am by justamemory
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#2Poubelle, Posted: Nov 05 2012 at 5:41 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) {Are you alone?}{meat}{Rod}{You can have this.}
#3 Nov 05 2012 at 7:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yes yes, we get it, you don't like XIV. Are you going to keep ******** on everyone else's excitement?
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#4 Nov 05 2012 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Yes yes, we get it, you don't like XIV. Are you going to keep sh*tting on everyone else's excitement?


Seems like he's pretty excited to me. I think this post is probably how a large majority of players feel. In any case, we appreciate your willingness to give 2.0 another try! Tell all your friends about it!
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#5 Nov 05 2012 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm talking about the now sub-defaulted post above mine replying to the OP (and quite a few other threads in here today).
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#6 Nov 05 2012 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
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heh I guess it does read more like a downer post, but it's meant to be a redeemed cynical one xD

born again eorzean!
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#7 Nov 05 2012 at 11:19 AM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
I'm talking about the now sub-defaulted post above mine replying to the OP (and quite a few other threads in here today).


Oh I missed that one. Haha my bad.
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#8 Nov 05 2012 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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justamemory wrote:
heh I guess it does read more like a downer post, but it's meant to be a redeemed cynical one xD

born again eorzean!


No I didn't read it like that at all, I'm pretty excited to see 2.0 myself Smiley: smile
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#9 Nov 06 2012 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
justamemory wrote:
heh I guess it does read more like a downer post, but it's meant to be a redeemed cynical one xD

born again eorzean!


No I didn't read it like that at all, I'm pretty excited to see 2.0 myself Smiley: smile


oh I didn't even see that sub-default post either xD

but ya my lack of faith in XIV has been disturbing given 2.0

the revamped weaponskills and TP system /drool

Edited, Nov 6th 2012 8:07am by justamemory
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#10 Nov 11 2012 at 1:13 AM Rating: Decent
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I left XIV long ago too. been keeping up with it more recently the closer 2.0 got. I even got to play a little before they changed the log in stuff today. Now I am kicking myself cause it was so much more fun to play. I really hope that it does well, and has a good population. The little bit I did play just made me love it so much more than Guild Wars 2. I hope though that we see more beastmen, or something similar in 2.0. I can't wait for Q1 2013, now I get to try and decide if I want to keep my current charicter, if they save it, or create a new one and start from scratch. Hopefully see you all in a couple months!!
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#11 Nov 12 2012 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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justamemory wrote:
ARR {Can I have it?}!

2.0 is the XIV I was waiting for.

[...other stuff he wrote...]

I feel bad for ditching it so soon, since I was rooting for another decent FFOnline title. But clearly, I should have had more faith.

{Please forgive me.}


I think everything Justamem0ry wrote applies to a LOT of people. Me included. After going thru the alpha/beta, I only lasted about 3 weeks after release.
Why condemn anyone for this? I think most FF fans felt the pain and frustration of the original, after we had such high hopes. I applaud those who've stuck it out over the last 2 years.
I'm getting psyched for ARR, the more trailers I see, the more letters written by the dev team...makes me think this one will stick. Everybody wins.

So...will Justamem0ry be making more music? ^^


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#12 Nov 12 2012 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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Vorkosigan wrote:
[quote=justamemory]ARR {Can I have it?}!

So...will Justamem0ry be making more music? ^^



ARR Piano Collection {You can have this.}!


Edited, Nov 13th 2012 9:32am by justamemory
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#13 Nov 13 2012 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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I can also vouch for the OP's mood representing a lot of us out there. In fact, this is the first time I've logged into zam since uhhmm...maybe 6 months after FFXIV released. That's about how long I played it? idk. :O

Can't really say I've felt it worth the effort to sink time into it because certain things were majorly lacking. But I'm really really excited for 2.0 and will give it a renewed effort. I just hope I can d/l the game in it's entirety online and use my cd key from my CE copy instead of having to install my CE copy, activate w/ key, then d/l the entire game again X_x
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#14 Nov 13 2012 at 10:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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FenrirXIII wrote:
I just hope I can d/l the game in it's entirety online and use my cd key from my CE copy instead of having to install my CE copy, activate w/ key, then d/l the entire game again X_x


Hopefully once the NDA is lifted on the Alpha we will know more about how this will work, I imagine they had to download the client. I doubt the existing executable would be able to determine if you're an alpha participant and download the appropriate files. They seem to be leaning towards using the SE Management system for everything, perhaps that will be where we can download the game.
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#15 Nov 23 2012 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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My experiences are similar to the OP in that I purchased the collectors edition and excitedly jumped into the game at launch. My excitement was quickly met with disappointment at the shallow game play and very limited gaming experience. However, after reading of the plans in store for relaunch, I'll admit to being impressed.

Prior to reading about some of the added and updated features, I all but turned my back on FFXIV. However, I'm willing to give it at least one more try, especially since they'll allow a free trial for previous players. I'll be seeing you guys in game!


Edited, Nov 23rd 2012 3:11pm by AuryanofAsura
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#16 Nov 23 2012 at 4:50 PM Rating: Decent
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It seems I'm not the only one who has recently caught wind of changes to XIV. I'm excited to see the changes as well. The fact they are making it a true open world is like a dream come true (always wanted to feel like I was a part of a real living and breathing FF world like in the old days when there were world maps and such).

I'm cautiously optimistic lol
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#17 Nov 24 2012 at 12:05 AM Rating: Decent
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I really hope all the players who raged furiously at the time forgive that they were burned at launch, and see how hard the new dev's are working to turn things around. I was skeptical about 2.0 at first, thinking it'd turn out just another lofty dream better on paper than practice, but after all the recent changes and road map completion...especially the Gamescom footage and Limit Break trailer...


If this was the first major ***** up from SE, many people would have been a lot more forgiving. It wasn't. Add that to the fact that virtually everyone in Beta was screaming for a better game and it looked like SE just didn't care about what the fans said.

I'll check in on the revamped game, but I'm going to be **** hesitant to pick it up.
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#18 Nov 24 2012 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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Caia wrote:


If this was the first major ***** up from SE, many people would have been a lot more forgiving. It wasn't. Add that to the fact that virtually everyone in Beta was screaming for a better game and it looked like SE just didn't care about what the fans said.

I'll check in on the revamped game, but I'm going to be **** hesitant to pick it up.


Aside from XIV, what major screwups are you talking about.

While people decried FFXIII, finantially it did well, as did FFXIII-2 (though to a lesser degree).

Actions speak louder than words in this regard and the MASS exedous of FFXIV marks it as a failure, rather than the ramping complaints, which are typical of any Final Fantasy.

As I said before, by the time the game hits beta, it's usually too late for sweeping changes to the basic code. Not to mention SE exects turned around and pushed the game's release in spite of the development team turning around to tell them that they needed more time. It was a train wreck waiting to happen. But, IMO, it had to happen for SE to learn as a company.

Which is part of the reason Wada himself apologized, a lot of the blame rests with him. Glad there's much more timeframe freedom on this version.

I'm glad Yoshida's at the helm of this project, his work has been positive thus far and I'm willing to give him a bit of leeway now that I've seen what his supervision did with 1.0, as well as some of the work they've displayed in ARR

Edited, Nov 24th 2012 9:13am by Hyrist
#19 Nov 24 2012 at 10:54 AM Rating: Default
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Hyrist wrote:
Caia wrote:


If this was the first major ***** up from SE, many people would have been a lot more forgiving. It wasn't. Add that to the fact that virtually everyone in Beta was screaming for a better game and it looked like SE just didn't care about what the fans said.

I'll check in on the revamped game, but I'm going to be **** hesitant to pick it up.


Aside from XIV, what major screwups are you talking about.

While people decried FFXIII, finantially it did well, as did FFXIII-2 (though to a lesser degree).

Actions speak louder than words in this regard and the MASS exedous of FFXIV marks it as a failure, rather than the ramping complaints, which are typical of any Final Fantasy.

As I said before, by the time the game hits beta, it's usually too late for sweeping changes to the basic code. Not to mention SE exects turned around and pushed the game's release in spite of the development team turning around to tell them that they needed more time. It was a train wreck waiting to happen. But, IMO, it had to happen for SE to learn as a company.

Which is part of the reason Wada himself apologized, a lot of the blame rests with him. Glad there's much more timeframe freedom on this version.

I'm glad Yoshida's at the helm of this project, his work has been positive thus far and I'm willing to give him a bit of leeway now that I've seen what his supervision did with 1.0, as well as some of the work they've displayed in ARR

Edited, Nov 24th 2012 9:13am by Hyrist



Seems like hyrist is on fanboy mode Smiley: lol

Let's give you a rundown:

FFXIV, Front mission Evolve, Front mission Online, The last Remnant, Infinite Undiscovery, FFXIII-2, code age commanders, and Dragon Quest X (Which is garbage :) )

So hmmm let's do a recap, SE had made some hicups here and there since the PS2 Era, but it never EVER! Translated to their flagship ******** yet now we got a failure in XIV and in DQX... Their 2 major flagship *********** Both of them online.... I sense a trend.... maybe just maybe SE does not know how to do MMO'S... Since aside from XI (Yes it's the most profitable ****** they have ever had blablabla) all their other MMO ventures have flat out SUCKED!



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#20 Nov 25 2012 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Infinite Undiscovery


I always hated the name of that game. Who thinks of this crap?
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#21 Nov 26 2012 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:

So hmmm let's do a recap, SE had made some hicups here and there since the PS2 Era, but it never EVER! Translated to their flagship ******** yet now we got a failure in XIV and in DQX... Their 2 major flagship *********** Both of them online.... I sense a trend.... maybe just maybe SE does not know how to do MMO'S... Since aside from XI (Yes it's the most profitable ****** they have ever had blablabla) all their other MMO ventures have flat out SUCKED!






SE has had more than a few 'hicups' before and after PS2 Era. These always tend to get overlooked as time goes on by other flashier titles show up.

But your viewpoint is skewed to begin with, especially if you think FFXIII-2 did badly. It was, in fact, the highest selling PS3 console game in Japan in 2011, and is a 79/100 meta-critic rating in general. It sold less total because it was a sequel to a controversial title to begin with, on top of a poor console year. Which really sours your assumed authority as to what DQX is going to turn out like.

The Last Remnant and Infinite Undiscovery were also widely acknowledged as 'diamonds in the rough' type games. In which was funny as where they excelled in one, they had problems with in another (TLR had graphical issues where IU was more of an underdeveloped design principle.)

I don't particularly follow or care about the Front Mission series as it's never had a truly strong presence in NA, and less in EU. We're still missing the better part of six titles there. I wouldn't call FEU or FEO more than spin-off attempts anyways. If we are to include those flops, we might want to include the successes of numerous handheld and mobile titles SE has come out with (Kingdom Hearts games most noted among them). Double the note for the mobile titles that are selling at price-points people still bemoan, but are doing well.

You might think I'm fan-boying, but I do my bookwork. If FFXIV did not catastrophically crash SE's other game failings could have been easily passed off as the common Japanese game developers' lack of being able to follow the trends, which far more than SE is guilty of as far as companies go.

Final Fantasy XIV was a total crash, not just in terms of disagreeing with design decisions but in production values as well. Even when people love/hated FFXIII, they did not expect FFXIV to fail as hard as it did.

Side titles, however, have always been prone to strife. And I'll wait on the word of DQX from professionals, thank you.
#22 Nov 27 2012 at 8:35 PM Rating: Decent
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XIII-2 got out sold by tales of graces in their first week.... Again a tales games outsold a Final Fantasy Title.... And you know who cares about being the #1 ps3 title in japan ? Nobody Smiley: lol Also the excuse that XIII-2 only did half as good as XIII is because is a sequel, is total garbage, the only title that can claim that is X-2, because X-2 from inception was only a fan service game, XIII-2 on the other hand, was as claimed by SE itself, meant to right the wrongs of XIII.... yet it did half as good a XIII... pattern ?

I actually love TLR i have installed in my pc, i played it, i think is a great game, but the sheer amounts of bugs is disgraceful, and yet i hope they revisit the game, release a fixed version with added content and stuff, or a sequel, that title had so much lore and story that i really loved it :) but it is still a bad game, same as infinite undiscovery(tho i have no love for that game)

The only titles missing from the front mission series is #2(A translation is almost finished btw) other than that, 1,3,4 and 5 are fully playable in enlgish the only one that was not released in USA/EU is #5 in my opinion the best in the series and there is a fully playable translation of that game on the webs.

I guess you see FFXIV as the blunder that put the spotlight on SE and their recent mistakes, where i see FFXIV as being the crown jewel of SE bad design trend, i use to buy everything with squaresoft's name on it, because i knew it would be the best ****** out of whatever number of releases we had that season, now ? Nope!

DQX sold 500k it's first week..... A numbered DQ sold 500K yeah lol
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#23 Nov 27 2012 at 10:48 PM Rating: Good
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XIII-2 only did half as good as XIII is because is a sequel, is total garbage


Actually there is some truth to this statement. As a true sequel for an FF game, meaning same universe, there are people out there who wouldn't want to play it without experience of it's original for story purposes, then there are people who wouldn't play it after being burned by the original whether XIII-2 corrected those issues or not. I myself was in the former until I managed to get XIII for 8 bucks and now I'm in the latter. I might play XIII-2 if I can get it for less than 15 bucks, just not worth it in IMO.
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#24 Nov 28 2012 at 2:42 PM Rating: Default
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What i meant to say is that AS a sequel it was total garbage, in the sense that if you played XIII and liked it, for what it was, XIII-2 is nothing like it, it seems like the producer or whoever was in charge, grabbed the story of FFXIII and plowed it under a rug and said ok, this is XIII-2 and it will make no sense if you played XIII so we need a escape goat... Time travel.... Paradox and that was it, the battle system was improved, and they added those monster ala pokemon thing, but the story at it's core, is utter garbage, and i disliked XIII with a pasion, but story wise, it is clearly above and beyond what XIII-2 has to offer.

Oh i got XIII at release and i turned it back XD! I waited for XIII-2 to be at 20 to buy it, i am in the end right now, but i have not bother to played, that sarah is one annoying character :(
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#25 Nov 28 2012 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I never played XIII-2, but obviously a direct sequel will always sell worse and be worse-received than the original. That's pretty much the case with any high-investment entertainment medium, like television series or video games. Sales don't necessarily reflect the quality of the product, since they're so heavily mediated by the reception of the first iteration.
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#26 Nov 28 2012 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
XIII-2 got out sold by tales of graces in their first week....


No they diddn't. Not even close.

Tales of Graces sold over 200,000 to FFXIII-2's 524,000 comparing opening weeks in Japan, the market that actually matters for Japanese games. These are Japaneese games and primarily targeted at a Japaneese market. If you even have an inkling otherwise you have absolutely zero credibility.

FFXII-2 also toppeled ToG's total sales globally by over a factor of two (2.18m to 0.71m in favor of FFXIII-2 On the PS3/ This is not counting Xbox360 sales, which is another half mill in FFXIII-2's favor and more than the entirety of ToG's Wii sales.)

Quote:
DQX sold 500k it's first week..... A numbered DQ sold 500K yeah lol


Actually, closer to 390k

That's more indicative of the declining trend in purchases in games over all in the past decade (Especially japaneese titles in the Western Market since the rise of WRPGs) than the game's quality itself. We also have to keep in mind SE's tarnished reputation, regardless of where you point the blame of it on. Regardless it held the top of Japan's charts through September on despite the coming Wii-U version, which your claim diddn't take into account. That's right, this title has two versions meaning that the initial sales of the game were going to be hamstringed from the get-go because a portion of the buyers are going to hold out for the newer console version.

Listen, I get your viewpoint, but please don't try to justify it with claims you don't research or understand the scope of how the economics of all this works. It makes you look worse than you should look by just bearing an honest opinion without trying to make it look like an official word. I've got nothing against you or your opinion. But I do my due diligence and research when I formulate an opinion. If you wish to challenge it, please do the same.



Edited, Nov 28th 2012 7:42pm by Hyrist
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X-2 was also dramatically different from X, and a lot of people hated how different it was. Other people loved the combat but hated the fact that they were playing with dress up dolls. (I contend that X-2 was flavored as a tongue-in-cheek shoujo parody, a fine niche genre in its own right in Japan, but far less appreciated everywhere else.)

I think what we've seen played out with SE and XIV is just a lot of unlucky breaks and bad attitudes all hitting at precisely the wrong time. SE execs weren't listening to the devs, the devs were caught in their own evolution from the traditional waterfall mode of programming necessary for console games to the much more modern agile, or iterative programming, which is much better for MMOs in general. Combined with a glutted market for MMORPGs, a newer PC game generation less familiar and less enamored with the Final Fantasy name, and their own short sightedness in going after WoW's Cataclysm when they were never even really competing in the same space to begin with.... yeah, it was a recipe for disaster, and disaster it was.

But, if there's one thing Japan is very good at doing, it's picking up the pieces after catastrophes and cleaning up the mess.
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#28 Nov 29 2012 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
X-2 was also dramatically different from X, and a lot of people hated how different it was. Other people loved the combat but hated the fact that they were playing with dress up dolls. (I contend that X-2 was flavored as a tongue-in-cheek shoujo parody, a fine niche genre in its own right in Japan, but far less appreciated everywhere else.)

I think what we've seen played out with SE and XIV is just a lot of unlucky breaks and bad attitudes all hitting at precisely the wrong time. SE execs weren't listening to the devs, the devs were caught in their own evolution from the traditional waterfall mode of programming necessary for console games to the much more modern agile, or iterative programming, which is much better for MMOs in general. Combined with a glutted market for MMORPGs, a newer PC game generation less familiar and less enamored with the Final Fantasy name, and their own short sightedness in going after WoW's Cataclysm when they were never even really competing in the same space to begin with.... yeah, it was a recipe for disaster, and disaster it was.

But, if there's one thing Japan is very good at doing, it's picking up the pieces after catastrophes and cleaning up the mess.



Absolutely well said.
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#29 Dec 01 2012 at 11:38 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Caia wrote:


If this was the first major ***** up from SE, many people would have been a lot more forgiving. It wasn't. Add that to the fact that virtually everyone in Beta was screaming for a better game and it looked like SE just didn't care about what the fans said.

I'll check in on the revamped game, but I'm going to be **** hesitant to pick it up.


Aside from XIV, what major ***** ups are you talking about.


FF13 and FF13-2 (which I'll defend below) for starters. SE was also pretty lackluster about dealing with issues in FF11 for a long long time. While I very much enjoyed FF11 overall, SE could have been a lot quicker to deal with aspects of the game and community that very few people enjoyed.

FFX-2 was not terribly well liked (though, I personally did enjoy it).

Quote:
While people decried FFXIII, financially it did well, as did FFXIII-2 (though to a lesser degree).


On the surface, sure, FF13 looks like it did quite well. However, the numbers tell a different story. From wiki on FF12...

Quote:
Final Fantasy XII received universally high review scores, and earned numerous "Game of the Year" awards in various categories from noted video game publications. Selling more than two million copies in Japan, it became the fourth best-selling PlayStation 2 game of 2006 worldwide. As of March 2007, over 5.2 million copies of the game have been shipped worldwide. A sequel, Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings, was released for the Nintendo DS in 2007.


And for FF13...

Quote:
Selling 1.7 million copies in Japan in 2009, Final Fantasy XIII became the fastest-selling title in the history of the series. As of July 2012, the game had sold 6.7 million copies worldwide.


Now if we we were to simply compare those numbers it looks like FF13 did better than FF12. But what everyone seems to forget is that FF13 was released on BOTH the PS3 and the Xbox. So, yeah, the total sales were higher, but the penetration into the market was significantly less. One would expect a much bigger swing in sales by releasing it on another system. That didn't happen.

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Actions speak louder than words in this regard and the MASS exodus of FFXIV marks it as a failure, rather than the ramping complaints, which are typical of any Final Fantasy.

As I said before, by the time the game hits beta, it's usually too late for sweeping changes to the basic code. Not to mention SE execs turned around and pushed the game's release in spite of the development team turning around to tell them that they needed more time. It was a train wreck waiting to happen. But, IMO, it had to happen for SE to learn as a company.

Which is part of the reason Wada himself apologized, a lot of the blame rests with him. Glad there's much more time frame freedom on this version.


Part of the problem was probably the execs at SE. However, the developers made a bad game. Even had they been given another year, it wouldn't have fixed the fundamental flaws in 1.0's design.

And its never too late to make sweeping changes to the code. Granted it shouldn't be done except in the most extreme cases. This case was one of those extreme cases. They opted to let the game be released in 1.0's state. They didn't have to do that.

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I'm glad Yoshida's at the helm of this project, his work has been positive thus far and I'm willing to give him a bit of leeway now that I've seen what his supervision did with 1.0, as well as some of the work they've displayed in ARR.


I've nothing bad to say about Yoshida. I hope he does turn it around. I'm just not expecting him to do it at this point. I think way too much damage has been done. Most people who got burned won't be coming back.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2012 12:40am by Caia
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#30 Dec 02 2012 at 12:46 AM Rating: Good
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There's a crack in your logic here.

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Now if we we were to simply compare those numbers it looks like FF13 did better than FF12. But what everyone seems to forget is that FF13 was released on BOTH the PS3 and the Xbox. So, yeah, the total sales were higher, but the penetration into the market was significantly less. One would expect a much bigger swing in sales by releasing it on another system. That didn't happen.


This runs under the base assumption that the JRPG audiance has expanded since the advent of gaming on the XBox360. This is in fact the opposite. At about the same time the Xbox360 came out, the western RPG genre started gaining a stronger spotlight, this has actually detracted away from all JRPGs, not just the Final Fantasy franchise. The fact that FFXIII is on more than a single system is irrelevant as they're appealing to the same audience, regardless of their design decisions otherwise. JRPGs are a niche in western cultures

So this isn't a matter of how you view the statistics. While JRPGs have struggeled on the Xbox360. The only one that actually did somewhat 'well' also did poorly in japan, (Likely due to the console's lack of fame in Japan), this being Lost Odyssey, which still sold under a million copies worldwide.

So no, half a million out of the Xbox360 should have been an expected figure. It does not mean FFXIII or it's successor did poorly. It just means the JRPG market does not have a strong foundation on a primarily Western console, and those that have both consoles prefer the PS3 version.
#31 Dec 02 2012 at 2:38 AM Rating: Decent
Lost Odyssey is one of my favorite games. Ever. Just sayin. I miss the old "Ring-Attack System"
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#32 Dec 02 2012 at 11:15 PM Rating: Good
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IKickYoDog wrote:
Lost Odyssey is one of my favorite games. Ever. Just sayin. I miss the old "Ring-Attack System"


The absolutely rich story (padded very well with the flashbacks) makes it one of my favorite of all time. One of the few games that made me want to cry, more than once even! It was a very emotionally rich and deep game. Funny part is, that game was very linear as well but nobody complained.
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