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Death and ChasingFollow

#1 Nov 06 2012 at 8:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Hello all, just want some opinions on this. I liked XIV but it didnt keep me subscribed, in fact im starting new in XI as I left in 2006 and never got to try the new jobs and areas. Im definitely going to try 2.0 but thats months away, which is another reason why im fooling around in XI. I know some people will disagree with me on these two points, but in my opinion, although it can really suck sometimes, I think that death should be punishable by a loss in experience, not in having to repair something and spend gil but in losing your progress. I really dont care for the repair system in any game, its telling you to farm more so you can afford the repairs rather than party more so you can learn and stop dieing. For me, dieing now in XI is nothing because I have a instant reraise hat and you dont lose xp for under level 30. Besides the fact you can level up fast the alternative ways now, not losing xp just makes it feel less dangerous out in the open world, at worst you'll have to walk back and spend some gil to fix your armor. You dont really learn a lesson that way, the mobs are supposed to be dangerous.

And the second point is that I like how the mobs really chased you down in a zone, running from orcs and goblins in Ronfaure may seem like a pain to some but I think it was a memorable experience. Remember the growl of a IT Quadav as your wandering in uncharted territory? Anyways, thats just my thoughts if you want to give me yours i'll give it a read.



Edited, Nov 6th 2012 9:39pm by Adrenry
#2 Nov 06 2012 at 9:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I blame progressive parenthood.
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#3 Nov 07 2012 at 3:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Adrenry wrote:
I think that death should be punishable by a loss in experience, not in having to repair something and spend gil but in losing your progress.

From an XI standpoint, experience loss isn't really a penalty. You can go from level 1 to cap in a matter of 24 hours of playing time. What sort of penalty is a thousand xp when you literally gain that back in the time it takes to lose weakness?

If you want to penalize players than it's all or nothing. Anything in the middle just makes it tedious or monotonous. XIV Hardcore mode activate! You get nailed by a heavy crit then your materia should break. Take a high tier spell to the face? Armor reduced to ash. Get knocked out in the field? Mobs desecrate your corpse and you don't get to revive. How's that for danger?
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#4 Nov 07 2012 at 5:02 AM Rating: Default
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Both of your posts are lame, but atleast the second one had some effort. I said in my post that I know things changed in XI and i specifically said that i feel its for the worse to die and instantly reraise and walk along. Its not like Im speaking for no experience, I leveld a job to 50 in XIV and never once felt like I was in any danger. If I hit something too hard I can just walk away and it'll leave me alone. If I die then I just respawn and go afk for a couple minutes. And my point about having to spend gil when you die is valid, why is there so much emphasis on equipment repair in MMO's today? It wasnt in XI and I dont see it as an improvement so why use it in XIV?

As for XI and XIV in general, i think the biggest problem is the gaming community, alot of people dont even talk to each other anymore.

Edited, Nov 7th 2012 6:08am by Adrenry
#5 Nov 07 2012 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm confused. You like XI's system, why not just play XI?
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#6 Nov 07 2012 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
I'm confused. You like XI's system, why not just play XI?


One would presume because mobs no longer chase you till ends of the earth (or at least the zone) and the death penalty isn't so horrific now that you can swim in xp thanks to abyssea and grounds of valor.

Won't someone think of the children and teach them that death is something you need at least 30 minutes to recover from? Smiley: clown
#7 Nov 07 2012 at 5:46 PM Rating: Decent
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I will never understand people that love and want to play XI but they want to love it and play it in another game.....


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#8 Nov 07 2012 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I am playing XI and I did and will play XIV, you people are just complaining and arguing instead of talking and debating. I already said XI was better before they added the easy experience, thats not the point. Im playing BOTH games and I made a topic on a forum to discuss something, not have people say "Oh You have an opinion Go Away and Play XI"

"I will never understand people that love and want to play XI but they want to love it and play it in another game.."
This point doesnt make sense. Most people admit XIV started off on the wrong foot. The people who made the game ADMITED it. Theyre changing it to make it more like the FINAL FANTASY ELEVEN fans wanted it to be. Most people who play XIV played XI. So to say people who loved XI and want XIV to change for the better should just go away is shutting out most of the fanbase. Stop making this into something stupid and just tell me why you like or dislike what I posted about.

Edited, Nov 7th 2012 8:37pm by Adrenry
#9 Nov 07 2012 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think that mobs returning to their territory is a vast improvement over XI. It was possible to shake an aggressive goblin using terrain or movement speed in XI but it was very difficult; they never really got that feature implemented properly.

I remember my first time playing gobbie dodge in Buburimu when I went to the ferry as a level ten Tarutaru WHM, but I get that same heart pounding experience in XIV any time I go to pick up a new aetheryte camp surrounded by high level sound and sight aggressive mobs that I have to tip toe around. Those ******* don't have to chase me down; they just have to swat at me to oneshot me.

The weakness penalty in XI is also a lot more severe than it is in XIV. These days, that is the real reason to try to avoid death at all costs. In Abyssea you can toss on the Atma of the Apocalypse and zombie a fight to some extent, but you're half as effective for anything when you're weak, and asking a weakened tank to fight is asking for perpetual weakness. Outside of Abyssea, you're still at the mercy of remembering your Reraise scroll or having a mage free to chuck a Raise on you.
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#10 Nov 07 2012 at 8:42 PM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Adrenry wrote:
I think that death should be punishable by a loss in experience, not in having to repair something and spend gil but in losing your progress.

From an XI standpoint, experience loss isn't really a penalty. You can go from level 1 to cap in a matter of 24 hours of playing time. What sort of penalty is a thousand xp when you literally gain that back in the time it takes to lose weakness?

If you want to penalize players than it's all or nothing. Anything in the middle just makes it tedious or monotonous. XIV Hardcore mode activate! You get nailed by a heavy crit then your materia should break. Take a high tier spell to the face? Armor reduced to ash. Get knocked out in the field? Mobs desecrate your corpse and you don't get to revive. How's that for danger?


In the first... oh I don't know... 8 years of the game (estimating here) losing XP due to death was DEFINITELY a big penalty.

I agree whole heartedly here. The danger of the world also gave it a grand sense of excitement.
#11 Nov 07 2012 at 8:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Adrenry wrote:
you people are just complaining and arguing instead of talking and debating


It isn't worth talking about or debating. XP is too easy to come by to make a penalty for being KO'd actually feel like a penalty. You would either have to make the penalty very high or nerf the rate at which people gain XP.

Being penalized goes against the basic premise in this game that your character progresses across all classes. You can use abilities learned by one class on another. As for the latter, well... you saw what happened with regard to powerleveling and the removal of the fatigue system. It just isn't viable.

Adrenry wrote:
Theyre changing it to make it more like the FINAL FANTASY ELEVEN fans wanted it to be. Most people who play XIV played XI. So to say people who loved XI and want XIV to change for the better should just go away is shutting out most of the fanbase.

No, actually they're not. They're changing it to be like any other modern MMO. Yes, it happens that XI is a better game than XIV 1.0 was, but that is not a valid excuse to ignore modern standards. Fans didn't want XIV to be like XI, they wanted it to be better. They may have wanted the warm, fuzzy feeling of nostalgia to wash over them like it did when they fell in love with XI a decade ago, but the majority wanted something even better.

Adrenry wrote:
Stop making this into something stupid and just tell me why you like or dislike what I posted about.

It was something stupid the first half dozen times this same topic was posted(a few years back I might add), but the reason why no one likes the idea is because on the incredibly long list of improvements SE could make to this game, XP penalties are down at the bottom when it comes to reforming this game into something enjoyable.

je355804 wrote:
I agree whole heartedly here. The danger of the world also gave it a grand sense of excitement.

Silent potions. Prism powder. Case closed.

The only mobs to be feared roaming open world were those that had true sight or true hearing and could detect you through these meds. Even then, as long as you were able to be patient these mobs were easily navigated around by waiting a moment for them to move out of the way.

Oh and as for the first 8 years of the game, I have to disagree that the XP penalty was anything more than a minor annoyance. After raising, the rest of your group could continue on without you and you'd have the experience you'd lost before or shortly after weakness wore off. Big deal? Not really.

Edited, Nov 7th 2012 10:01pm by FilthMcNasty
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#12 Nov 08 2012 at 10:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Adrenry wrote:
I am playing XI and I did and will play XIV, you people are just complaining and arguing instead of talking and debating. I already said XI was better before they added the easy experience, thats not the point. Im playing BOTH games and I made a topic on a forum to discuss something, not have people say "Oh You have an opinion Go Away and Play XI"

"I will never understand people that love and want to play XI but they want to love it and play it in another game.."
This point doesnt make sense. Most people admit XIV started off on the wrong foot. The people who made the game ADMITED it. Theyre changing it to make it more like the FINAL FANTASY ELEVEN fans wanted it to be. Most people who play XIV played XI. So to say people who loved XI and want XIV to change for the better should just go away is shutting out most of the fanbase. Stop making this into something stupid and just tell me why you like or dislike what I posted about.

Edited, Nov 7th 2012 8:37pm by Adrenry


You do know, that SE is moving away from the XI model, and more towards the "Standard" right ?

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#13 Nov 08 2012 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm not a fan of losing xp upon death, personally, and I have played XI for a very long time; however, I would like to see xp earned much more slowly in ARR. While this stems from my nostalgia for the FFXI of old, I think something most MMOs lack is a sense of genuine, undeniable accomplishment from attaining lvl cap in a given job. But this is no longer the case in XI.

Maybe the modern MMO is no longer interested in its jobs/classes lending to players the feel of actual work, months and months of serious effort and strategy. But for me, it really added a sense of ownership. I was a Ninja. And I miss it.
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#14 Nov 08 2012 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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Well, XIV is supposed to have a much slower grind in 2.0. While getting power leveled was kind of fun at first, it meant that I was that much weaker at my job when I finally joined parties.
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#15 Nov 08 2012 at 2:40 PM Rating: Default
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catwho wrote:
Well, XIV is supposed to have a much slower grind in 2.0. While getting power leveled was kind of fun at first, it meant that I was that much weaker at my job when I finally joined parties.


Truth.
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#16 Nov 09 2012 at 11:15 AM Rating: Default
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Having mobs never stop chasing you was NOT an aspect of FFXI I cared for. It was extremely annoying to accidently aggro a goblin and have him chase you the entire length of the map, while somehow able to cast running spells, and hit you even though he was no where close to you.
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