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Anyone ever seen a loot system like this?Follow

#1 Nov 13 2012 at 12:38 PM Rating: Default
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one game I played consist of your party killing the same most, but everyone gets their own loot.. what dropped for me may not be teh same as the other guy in my group and thus all the loot goes to you.. so on my screen the monster might have dropped and given me the rare item i was after while the other person in my party got totally different drops...

I think all MMOs should use that system.. that woulda stopped all the ninja looting and ppl getting bad rolls on casting lots... since everyone was guaranteed to get a drop.. WHAT you got on the other hand was completely different lol

I remember needing 2 copies of the same rare items from a monster I had to kill 197 times before it dropped both, while the ppl in my party who were helping me got the item I needed at least 7-0 times (they couldnt give it to me as all items and money in that game were non trad able or sell able.. only thing you could trade wer consumable items like potions, antidotes etc etc).

but yeah i think all games should do that, anyone else agree?
#2 Nov 13 2012 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Sooo... you basically are against the ability to pass on loot you don't need?
#3 Nov 13 2012 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Sooo... you basically are against the ability to pass on loot you don't need?

passing on loot i dont need is fine..

what Im against is doing an event that has a low drop rate that i can only do once every 3 days (dynamis) or fighting a monster who shows up ones every 21-24 hours... and having to compete with 13 other people in teh group who want the same item as I do so not only do I have to hope for this already rare drop to drop, then I have to pray I can outlot the other 13 people if it DOES..


teh system I outlined guarantees that i get the drop IF it drops so everytime I fight is a chance I get it.. i fit drops Im 100% guaranteed to get it, thats not the case in the "other" systems
#4 Nov 13 2012 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
I don't know how difficult this would be to program, but perhaps use this guy's base system and make it so everyone has their own seperate rolls on the whole loot table. Then it's not a 5% chance it will drop at all, but a 5% chance it will drop for each person. Then have the option to pass on loot. All passed loot goes into a community pool at that point, where people can then cast their lots. You could avoid ninja looting by dropping people from the group before the item is passed into the community pool.

I don't see any real reason that you should have to fight competing NM claimers, then fight a dismal drop rate, and then fight the inner-party competition for the drop, if and when it does come. If a drop rate is below 7% or so, then I see no harm in making it slightly more accessable to people strong enough to fight whatever drops the loot you're looking for.

edit: expanding the explanation.

Edited, Nov 13th 2012 2:38pm by IKickYoDog
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#5 Nov 13 2012 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I feel rare drops and getting extremely frustrated because people take it is part of the mmo experience :P. Becomes too easy with nothing at stake when IF the rare item drops you are GUARANTEED the item... Fight for it!
#6 Nov 13 2012 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
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IKickYoDog wrote:
I don't know how difficult this would be to program, but perhaps use this guy's base system and make it so everyone has their own seperate rolls on the whole loot table. Then it's not a 5% chance it will drop at all, but a 5% chance it will drop for each person. Then have the option to pass on loot. All passed loot goes into a community pool at that point, where people can then cast their lots. You could avoid ninja looting by dropping people from the group before the item is passed into the community pool.

I don't see any real reason that you should have to fight competing NM claimers, then fight a dismal drop rate, and then fight the inner-party competition for the drop, if and when it does come. If a drop rate is below 7% or so, then I see no harm in making it slightly more accessable to people strong enough to fight whatever drops the loot you're looking for.

edit: expanding the explanation.

Edited, Nov 13th 2012 2:38pm by IKickYoDog



exactly... the item i needed two of had a 0.5% drop rate (hence me having to kill it 197 times) after all that work I woulda been annoyed had the item finally dropped but then i get outlotted fo rit by someone else in the party... but since we all got separate drops it didnt matter... some of those ppl got 5-7 in the time it too me to get two... they laugh after ever fight saying they got it (even though they no longer needed it) wheraas it still hadnt shown up on my screen for me yet lol.
#7 Nov 13 2012 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Banwawgwa wrote:
I feel rare drops and getting extremely frustrated because people take it is part of the mmo experience :P. Becomes too easy with nothing at stake when IF the rare item drops you are GUARANTEED the item... Fight for it!



id happily "fight" for it if fight for it mean.... ppl went int room where chest/monster is... room gets sealed off allowing no one else to enter.... then everyone has a free for all and last man standing goes to claim and fight monster and if they win they drop (if it drops) in theirs, while teh losers go back to their home point lol.
#8 Nov 13 2012 at 2:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Personally, I'm against a system where one person gets to choose the loot for everyone else (effectively by kicking people). I've worked with too many scoundrels in ffxi to ever believe that's a fair system. Even in situations where people behave honorably, it still leads to bloated waiting lists for loot that either ends in:

1) Early members getting all their stuff and leaving the newest members high and dry.

2) A waiting list so long, you can't get new members because it would take too long before they could ever get anything, and they join smaller, newer groups while the old group collapses without enough people.

Whatever system is adopted, there should always be a chance for all participants to get something good which can't be taken away lest over-zealous leaders kick you from the linkshell for not "sharing" with the more "deserving." There should always be a chance for something good every time you win a big fight.
#9 Nov 13 2012 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
Personally, I'm against a system where one person gets to choose the loot for everyone else (effectively by kicking people). I've worked with too many scoundrels in ffxi to ever believe that's a fair system. Even in situations where people behave honorably, it still leads to bloated waiting lists for loot that either ends in:

1) Early members getting all their stuff and leaving the newest members high and dry.

2) A waiting list so long, you can't get new members because it would take too long before they could ever get anything, and they join smaller, newer groups while the old group collapses without enough people.

Whatever system is adopted, there should always be a chance for all participants to get something good which can't be taken away lest over-zealous leaders kick you from the linkshell for not "sharing" with the more "deserving." There should always be a chance for something good every time you win a big fight.



This exactly..

which is why the system i pointed out would work for everyone
#10 Nov 13 2012 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
Xoie wrote:
Personally, I'm against a system where one person gets to choose the loot for everyone else (effectively by kicking people). I've worked with too many scoundrels in ffxi to ever believe that's a fair system. Even in situations where people behave honorably, it still leads to bloated waiting lists for loot that either ends in:

1) Early members getting all their stuff and leaving the newest members high and dry.

2) A waiting list so long, you can't get new members because it would take too long before they could ever get anything, and they join smaller, newer groups while the old group collapses without enough people.

Whatever system is adopted, there should always be a chance for all participants to get something good which can't be taken away lest over-zealous leaders kick you from the linkshell for not "sharing" with the more "deserving." There should always be a chance for something good every time you win a big fight.


I can see how that would happen. I was referring mainly to a situation where your ls is going to help you kill an NM, but you need 1 more DD, so you get a random, letting him know you're hunting a drop for a friend. As long as they agree, you can ensure no funny business by dropping them from party before the the tank who already has the piece drops it into the community pool for the whm. I'd rather have the option to drop someone from the party than have people who already have the drop help me, then get the drop anyway.

In regards to drop rates, if a boss has a 5% drop rate for a shield, I don't see why it shouldn't be 5% per person, rather than for the whole group. 5% is still terrible on an averaged basis.
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#11 Nov 13 2012 at 2:31 PM Rating: Decent
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"I'd rather have the option to drop someone from the party than have people who already have the drop help me, then get the drop anyway. "

In the system i outlined everyone gets their own individual drops... so it snot liek if someone in your party gets it no one else can... you ALL have a chance of getting it so technically every one of you could get it in one kill.. thus technically it WOULD be .5% per person in the group...'

the only difference with my system and your system is if the person you gets it doesnt want it they could pass it to you, whereas in mine if they get it theyre stuck with it whether they wanted it or not... but it doesnt mean that you couldnt have gotten it too just because they go it in their pool
#12 Nov 13 2012 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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What the OP describes is the system SE used for Voidwatch in FFXI.

It'd be okay except for the utterly ridiculous drop rates.

One person in the 18 man alliance gets an awesome shiny (that they may not even need.)

Everyone else gets logs.
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#13 Nov 13 2012 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
What the OP describes is the system SE used for Voidwatch in FFXI.

It'd be okay except for the utterly ridiculous drop rates.

One person in the 18 man alliance gets an awesome shiny (that they may not even need.)

Everyone else gets logs.



ooo i didnt know Voidwatch did that (i havent played FFXI since halloween 2009)... i wish the WHOLE game used that system
#14 Nov 13 2012 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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If they implemented it better in XIV (fixing the drop rates to something less insane) I could get along with that. To be honest I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm never going to be the first guy to have that cool new item with my casual play schedule so I'm less inclined to be annoyed by loot systems.
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#15 Nov 13 2012 at 2:53 PM Rating: Decent
Wint wrote:
If they implemented it better in XIV (fixing the drop rates to something less insane) I could get along with that. To be honest I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm never going to be the first guy to have that cool new item with my casual play schedule so I'm less inclined to be annoyed by loot systems.


My schedule will most likely be geared towards a casual schedule as well, but I know that I'm so friggin competitive... I will be annoyed. It's a terrible situation
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#16 Nov 13 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
catwho wrote:
What the OP describes is the system SE used for Voidwatch in FFXI.

It'd be okay except for the utterly ridiculous drop rates.

One person in the 18 man alliance gets an awesome shiny (that they may not even need.)

Everyone else gets logs.



ooo i didnt know Voidwatch did that (i havent played FFXI since halloween 2009)... i wish the WHOLE game used that system


Yeah, it is rather nice not to have to compete directly. Once the NM is dead, a chest appears, and each person has a pile of stuff in the chest to pick from. You can take it all, but inventory gets eaten up fast. (Smart crafters just sit down and craft the logs right away so they take up less room.) 100% by chance, someone's chest can contain the Awesome Drop (TM.)
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#17 Nov 13 2012 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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I must be one utterly deranged kittycat b/c I love those competitive drops as well as rare drop rates. It's a highly satisfying achievement imo. Days (sometimes months) of frustration then 'poof', that little gray cloud becomes airy elation.
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#18 Nov 13 2012 at 5:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I honestly like the low drop rates, I like the old school style of ffxi! I use to be a NM hunter in ffxi competing against the Japanese players! I made millions of Gil nm hunting, there is no better feeling of accomplishment than getting an item you camped for a week! I know it sounds ridiculous but on ffxi you had to have dough for the good items or work for it! I will always remember getting my Scorpion harness! I can't even remember some items I got playing wow because of how easy it was. I think they need to make servers for hardcore and casual
#19 Nov 13 2012 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
Turok1985 wrote:
I honestly like the low drop rates, I like the old school style of ffxi! I use to be a NM hunter in ffxi competing against the Japanese players! I made millions of Gil nm hunting, there is no better feeling of accomplishment than getting an item you camped for a week! I know it sounds ridiculous but on ffxi you had to have dough for the good items or work for it! I will always remember getting my Scorpion harness! I can't even remember some items I got playing wow because of how easy it was. I think they need to make servers for hardcore and casual


Oh sweet nostalgia. Brigandine Armor, Scorpion Harness, Dusk Trousers and Assassin's Armlets.

Edited, Nov 13th 2012 7:57pm by IKickYoDog
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#20 Nov 13 2012 at 9:15 PM Rating: Good
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#21 Nov 15 2012 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShindaUsagi wrote:
I must be one utterly deranged kittycat b/c I love those competitive drops as well as rare drop rates. It's a highly satisfying achievement imo. Days (sometimes months) of frustration then 'poof', that little gray cloud becomes airy elation.

I agree with this on some level. Rare items should be hard to get and take time and effort to get as well. I love the feeling of being rewarded for working hard to get something.

I always laughed at myself in FFXIV 1.xx when i complained about the loot systems because on the one hand I would complain about Primal drops and not being able to pass them - hence so many wasted drops being thrown away... on the other hand I complained about the dungeon loot system because groups wanted everyone to /random for something after the game already randomly gave it to you - in this case I wished you couldn't pass them. I think I would prefer the "Primal System" - which is similar to the OP's idea, everyone gets a chest and their own loot.

Maybe if they implement that token system (don't remember much of what the devs told us about it) it will give everyone the best of both worlds. Possibly: Rare drops still have a low drop rate but if you farm Content X enough to earn the required tokens (NOT totems that are just as rare as the loot, but everyone is guaranteed tokens for completing the content) you can buy the rare gear you want eventually.

EDIT: I love this lol,

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...so true...


Edited, Nov 15th 2012 2:11pm by scorleone
#22 Nov 15 2012 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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scorleone wrote:

Maybe if they implement that token system (don't remember much of what the devs told us about it) it will give everyone the best of both worlds. Possibly: Rare drops still have a low drop rate but if you farm Content X enough to earn the required tokens (NOT totems that are just as rare as the loot, but everyone is guaranteed tokens for completing the content) you can buy the rare gear you want eventually.


Tokens-for-items aren't very ****, but they are extremely practical. They never "go to waste" since you'll always trade them for what you need, and if your group disbands, they're perfectly transferable to your next group. It also gives you the reassurance that eventually you'll get your prize if you stick with it. I think it's one of the better approaches to this problem.
#23 Nov 15 2012 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
What the OP describes is the system SE used for Voidwatch in FFXI.

It'd be okay except for the utterly ridiculous drop rates.

One person in the 18 man alliance gets an awesome shiny (that they may do not even need.)


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#24 Nov 15 2012 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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Loot systems are never really my concern.

It's the crafting and customization systems that really get me. I never really get into crafting because I have yet to find a system that allows me to train to create a truely epic and unique weapon. Not just in means of creating "High Tier" things, but something truely custom tailored and of a legendary status that can rival a 'Relic'.

I don't care if I have to go to the ends of the earth to make it. I just want to be able to MAKE it. Instead of fitting a bunch of requirements together and handing them to an NPC.

I also want to be able to name it.

Give me that kind of a crafting system to comliment a loot system and I won't worry about the random loot problems.
#25 Nov 16 2012 at 1:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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yeah I've always wanted crafting to be awesome but it never quite is. Actually, it is usually the opposite of awesome.
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#26 Nov 18 2012 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Days (sometimes months) of frustration then 'poof', that little gray cloud becomes airy elation.


Yeah, except the moments of elation aren't really worth the days/months of frustration, in retrospect.

The ideal system rewards you not for being patient but for being skilled. It's always better to FINALLY get the drop because it took you 50 tries to kill that boss, rather than to FINALLY get that item with the 1% drop rate after going 50/50 wins on that easy boss. Of course, in FFXI this was offset by the fact that dying was overly penalized and therefor sucked.

Realistically, this is difficult and impractical to achieve because scaling difficulty to different players is a significant design and programming challenge. A compromise tends to work best, and FFXI definitely leaned too hard on the low drop rates. Particularly when you consider that they had vastly more content than 99.9999% of players could ever complete.
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#27 Nov 18 2012 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Days (sometimes months) of frustration then 'poof', that little gray cloud becomes airy elation.


Yeah, except the moments of elation aren't really worth the days/months of frustration, in retrospect.

The ideal system rewards you not for being patient but for being skilled. It's always better to FINALLY get the drop because it took you 50 tries to kill that boss, rather than to FINALLY get that item with the 1% drop rate after going 50/50 wins on that easy boss. Of course, in FFXI this was offset by the fact that dying was overly penalized and therefor sucked.

Realistically, this is difficult and impractical to achieve because scaling difficulty to different players is a significant design and programming challenge. A compromise tends to work best, and FFXI definitely leaned too hard on the low drop rates. Particularly when you consider that they had vastly more content than 99.9999% of players could ever complete.


I like the idea of skill over patience. What I'm romantasing is beating others to the punch. I don't remember the item not dropping. I remember the silent death stares of those thf/rng pts as I dia'd their best laid plans away. Wow I waisted many many hours/days for that satisfaction.
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#28 Nov 19 2012 at 2:40 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
one game I played consist of your party killing the same most, but everyone gets their own loot.. what dropped for me may not be teh same as the other guy in my group and thus all the loot goes to you.. so on my screen the monster might have dropped and given me the rare item i was after while the other person in my party got totally different drops...


The problem with it is TL2 is not an MMO, nor do they want to make money through RMAH like Diablo 3. Loots in MMO are supposed to be hard to get to represent their value, which creates a virtual economy. TL2 have virtually no economy, as you can simply create mods that give you bazillion gold or super awesome gears, which is fine because TL2 never wanted a virtual economy.
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#29 Nov 19 2012 at 6:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Is it me or is it a bit like torchlight 2 system that this guy is after?

I actually prefer that system to be honest when it comes to loot.
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#30 Nov 19 2012 at 7:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
one game I played consist of your party killing the same most, but everyone gets their own loot.. what dropped for me may not be teh same as the other guy in my group and thus all the loot goes to you.. so on my screen the monster might have dropped and given me the rare item i was after while the other person in my party got totally different drops...


The problem with it is TL2 is not an MMO, nor do they want to make money through RMAH like Diablo 3. Loots in MMO are supposed to be hard to get to represent their value, which creates a virtual economy. TL2 have virtually no economy, as you can simply create mods that give you bazillion gold or super awesome gears, which is fine because TL2 never wanted a virtual economy.



lol I didnt even know what TL2 was until I saw the post below yours
#31 Nov 19 2012 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
one game I played consist of your party killing the same most, but everyone gets their own loot.. what dropped for me may not be teh same as the other guy in my group and thus all the loot goes to you..


Diablo 3

The problem with this system is that it introduces a bunch of worthless gear and actually makes the effective drop rate lower. Think about it for a little bit and you can probably figure out why, but if you need an explanation I can break it down for you.

IKickYoDog wrote:
In regards to drop rates, if a boss has a 5% drop rate for a shield, I don't see why it shouldn't be 5% per person, rather than for the whole group.

Wait, wut? Read this out loud and think about it Smiley: lol





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#32 Nov 19 2012 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
one game I played consist of your party killing the same most, but everyone gets their own loot.. what dropped for me may not be teh same as the other guy in my group and thus all the loot goes to you..


Diablo 3

The problem with this system is that it introduces a bunch of worthless gear and actually makes the effective drop rate lower. Think about it for a little bit and you can probably figure out why, but if you need an explanation I can break it down for you.

IKickYoDog wrote:
In regards to drop rates, if a boss has a 5% drop rate for a shield, I don't see why it shouldn't be 5% per person, rather than for the whole group.

Wait, wut? Read this out loud and think about it Smiley: lol


Gotta agree with this, think if your boss require 10 people to kill and has a 5% drop rate for the shield, that's the amount of shields SE want into the game. If you change this to your system, it would also mean having to lower the drop rate to 0.5% each person effectively giving you the same amount of shields in game.

Now think only two people in your group want the shield and it can't be traded, which system would work the best for your group?
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