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Bouncy chests, no *** marriage (yet) & housing art...Follow

#1 Nov 19 2012 at 7:54 PM Rating: Good
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are just some of the things in the Letter from the Producer LIVE Part IV & Q&A Summary

Greetings everyone!

We're proud to bring you the full Q&A digest and English-subtitled Letter from the Producer LIVE Part IV, which was broadcasted last week! If you weren't able to watch the live stream, or if you just want to watch it over and over again, check it out below!

Don't forget to select the 720p option to watch the video in HD!


http://sqex.to/97I
To enable English subtitles, click the [CC] icon!

[0:13:10]
Q: Will Hildibrand be appearing in ARR?
A: Of course! Hildibrand received lots of positive feedback from players, so he will most likely be back to crack more cases. You can look forward to his return in ARR!

[0:13:46]
Q: Will we be able to change character names at the start of ARR?
A: We'll continue to look at the possibilities until the very end, but it looks like we will be able to provide this option.

[0:14:20]
Q: Will my character's chest be bouncy?
A: In programming terms, so-called "skeletons" are implemented around the characters *******. So, yes, they will move.

Actually, they currently move a bit now in the alpha version. We are going to make adjustments to each race to the extent that they aren't over the top.

[0:15:37]
Q: Please tell us about the details of the FFVI-style Magitek armor. Will we be able to use it in battle?
A: Unfortunately, we don’t have such plans at the moment. That said, the Magitek armor is very popular among players, so the team is coming up with lots of ideas for it, like with chocobos. It will be receive special treatment.

A coeurl mount is also currently in-development.

*Video shows off the coeurl mount in action.

We are planning to release a wealth of mounts.

[0:18:17]
Q: In the primal battles in Version 1.0, there is a lot of pressure on tanks and healers. Will the roles be rebalanced for ARR?
A: In MMORPGs at large, both tanks and healers have important roles: maintaining hate and healing party members respectively. If these two roles aren’t played well, the party may collapse. But this doesn’t mean that other classes have any less of a burden. If damage dealers don’t work quickly enough, the fight will end up dragging on, making it harder for tanks and healers to do their jobs. So I don’t think there will be much of a change.

We'd like players to see how things are in the beta.

[0:20:40]
Q: What function is the duty finder system intended to serve? Is it meant to be a way to keep older content populated, or can it be used to form parties for new content such as the Crystal Tower?
A: We’re planning to make it serve both purposes. As I’ve mentioned in recent interviews, ARR will boast a multitude of content and have much kinder drop rates than in the past. Players will have the ability to “Need” items a certain number of times per week per content. That said, you can select from the various contents and decide where you want to go, instead of having to gather at a certain time each week. For example, if I haven’t used my “Need” for Tam-Tara Deepcroft this week, I could go there with similarly motivated players. Since it may be difficult for newer players to find others with the same objective, who are of the same level, the system will bring people together from multiple worlds. That way, you can play what you want, when you want.

[0:22:47]
Q: Will there be any changes to 8-man parties in A Realm Reborn? Will there be content for solo players or smaller parties?
A: We’ll continue to add content like Skirmish that can be played in parties of four, and those that can be enjoyed without worrying about numbers.

We are preparing content known as a “Full Active Time Event.” It borrows the words “active time” from the FINAL FANTASY series. I think this will be appearing very often in our PR activities from here on out.

It will be difficult to explain the system without a video. For example, an NM pops. A notification of this is sent to all players in the zone, who then converge on the NM. Parties are automatically formed, and a battle begins. The NM is defeated, rewards are doled out, and the players go their separate ways.

Things like Hamlet Defense and Caravan Security will be considered Full Active Time Events. With this system, many different things will take place in many different places. That’s how I’d like you to think of it for now.

Players will be able to experience it in the Beta Test.

[0:26:12]
Q: How will the materia system change in A Realm Reborn?
A: Fundamentally, it won’t be changing all that much. We will, however, do away with fluctuations in materia parameters. We’ll be raising parameters to the upper end of the range for existing materia. We’ve also been discussing raising the success rate of multiple melding, but the numbers haven’t been finalized just yet.

We’ve been talking about simplifying the system, as some aspects of it are difficult to understand.

[0:26:42]
Q: You mentioned in the past that the monk job will be reconceptualized. Will STR and INT continue to be the main attributes? What kind of abilities will monks have? Please give us more details!
A: Basically, the main attributes for each class and job will be changed significantly.

We’re completely reworking the battle system, and attributes will be changed as a result. Work is ongoing in the Alpha, and it should all be ready for the Beta. But, yes, everything will change.

There was talk on the forums about monk, debating whether stances will stay, whether forms will be introduced, etc. The main attributes will change along with the way the job works. You’ll be able to chain together endless combos. It’ll be very different.

[0:30:15]
Q: Will there be any new gatherer-specific content implemented at the start of A Realm Reborn? And what kind of content are you planning?
A: I‘ve talked about this in the past, but gatherers and crafters find and make items respectively, and battle classes use those items to fight. We consider this to be the core content for gatherers, and right now there aren’t plans for more activities specific to gatherers and crafters. We will, however, be updating things. In Version 1.0, there were originally plans for collaboratively-built boats. In A Realm Reborn, they’ll be able to craft roofs for player housing, find the materials to make those roofs, and also create items for their free company. So there’ll be more activities for gatherers can get involved in.

[0:32:48]
Q: What will the new market system be like? Can you give us some details?
A: Basically we will be totally re-making retainers and the market system from scratch.
We’ll be adding all the Auction House features people are asking for, and make it so that only your own retainer and those you want to appear are displayed in the market wards. It’s a bit difficult to explain. It’d be better to have our players try it for themselves in the Beta, the same time we run server stress tests.

We will also be fixing the system so that you can search for materia-enhanced items, and tell whether or not an item is HQ. In the Beta, we’d like to see how much stress the search feature can take, so please search away.

[0:45:55]
Q: Will houses be personal or shared?
A: First it will be joint housing. A house of this size is going to require everyone to dish out some dough. It’s pretty expensive.

You can make furniture available to people of the same free company, or, if you want, you can set permission levels so all of your friends can use the furniture and what not. There are quite a few settings.

The reason why we’ve decided to establish them as free company bases first is because inside of the houses there is a new kind of system that involves parks and towers.

Parks would give a bonus to everyone in the free company, like an extra 25% to experience points earned. It could make crafting faster to level, or maybe give success bonuses for HQ crafting. It's a system that allows members to add things that will give boons to the entire free company. You’ll be able to increase the size of your house, and also your company can rank-up through free company points, allowing you to place more parks and towers around.


I’d first like to create a strong community within FFXIV. When new members join, you’ll be able to get more points, and we’d like to establish a system that encourages people to support new players coming into the game. Once the community has had time to come together we will then allow players to have their own private housing and branch out from there

Even for an MMO, I believe it’s nice to have a place to call home.

*The video shows off housing art for each region.

[0:48:48]
Q: Isn’t the largest size house almost too big.
A: With it being so big, you have so much room to put lots of neat stuff. For example, if you defeat Ifrit, you can place his skull on the wall above the fireplace.

[0:49:58]
Q: Roughly how much will housing cost including the furnishings and interior designs?
A: I think that maybe 4-5 players, each with one level 50 class could probably buy a house if they put all of their earnings together.

From there it will be possible to buy more land and rebuild, things like that. There will be lots of things you can do like have the roof changed to a different style, and then paint it whatever color you want.

[0:53:11]
Q: Can someone who is affiliated with a different Grand Company join the same Free Company as you? Could you give us more details about the Free Companies, please?
A: Regardless of which Grand Company you belong to, you can belong to the same Free Company. If we were to put strict limitations on this, then it would be hard to add people who want to play casually and it wouldn’t be possible to play with friends who already belong to a different Grand Company.

I was wondering if players would do some role-play with this. For our overseas players in particular, I can see people identifying with the military structure in-game. So maybe, for example, you have a group whose members are devoted to the Maelstrom Command, and everyone has the same motivation to get the Maelstrom Command to the top of the three Grand Companies – some kind of role-play like that. If this becomes the norm, however, you have to consider that casual players will have a hard time joining in, or that a player's friends may have joined different Grand Companies

For example, if we compare this to society – this starts to break into reality a little too much, but anyway – let’s say that the parent company is the Immortal Flames and we made a subsidiary company, a free company. But if we get contributions from players of three different Grand Companies, our reputation will vary depending on where we choose to focus our efforts. It should be easier to build a reputation if we devote our energies to one company, and swear to fight for that company only. So there could be this whole "reputation" concept – I'm sure the naming will change though. If you rise higher within the Immortal Flames, you could get a special title, or something like that, which would allow both casual and hardcore players to participate in this kind of role-playing.

[0:55:55]
Q: Will the poster behind you be for sale in the future? It looks really nice.
A: This is something that was created to really promote A Realm Reborn, but we’re planning to create a poster with the similar motif of all the primals together.

We have a lot of other things planned as well. Free company art and so on.

[0:57:12]
Q: For account bonuses, such as the Legacy Chocobo, will they only be applied to characters that have already been created? Or as long as you have a Legacy account, will they apply to new characters you make after the fact as well?
A: Well, this applies not only to Legacy Accounts, but for example in the case that we were to announce a special bonus for those players who pre-order the PS3 version in the future, it will be directly tied to your account. In other words, since your account is flagged, you will be able to receive those in-game items for all new and existing characters via the Mog Letter delivery system.

[0:58:14]
Q: Are there plans to release a benchmark? If so, when?
A: We are planning to have two. The first one will be for Beta to see how well your PC can run it, and the second one will be right before launch and it will include character creation with all races.

[0:59:51]
Q: Will it be possible to switch the audio language and subtitle languages? Also, if this is possible, would we be able to make this change while running the game?
A: From a world-wide service perspective there would be way too many patterns. We will be supporting each voice however, and it can be changed in-game. So with that said, we are not really planning for subtitles.

Basically it will be possible to switch the voice languages to each of the support languages, and this can be done via the in-game config.

[1:02:04]
Q: Tell us more about the Crystal Tower and the Great Labyrinth of Bahamut.
A: The Crystal Tower is an alliance raid. It’s content that is taken on by an alliance of three parties, for a total of 24 players.

The Great Labyrinth of Bahamut and the Crystal Tower are similar in that neither of these raids will be completed in one visit. We will continue to add floors over the span of about a year and a half.

The Crystal Tower is, as I’m sure everyone knows, the last dungeon in FFIII. So as the floors increase, you can all ultimately expect something like the Cloud of Darkness to make an appearance.

It’s difficult to explain the Great Labyrinth of Bahamut without saying spoilers. Well, just as everyone saw at the beginning of the stream in the video, Dalamud actually contained Bahamut. So you might ask, “Why was Bahamut inside?” And I believe you all saw that a key-like object fall out of Dalamud and that’s a large part of Bahamut’s containment. It scattered all over Eorzea and is an important clue for the dungeon. You can take on the Great Labyrinth from various locations…

Well, if I say anymore it would weaken the impact for when everyone first enters the dungeon.

Events will develop on a grand scale, and there will be a huge number of bosses for each “episode” of the raid. So, it’s going to be hard if you don’t dish out enough damage.

It’ll probably take more than 10 or 20 wipes to really figure out.

[1:05:16]
Q: What kind of recognition will our characters receive to show that we played through the current version of the game? Can you tell us?
A: Yeah, I think it’s a bit too early for that. I’m going to keep quiet a bit longer.

[1:05:44]
Q: How many new hairstyles will there be? Will we be able to change to new hairstyles when A Realm Reborn begins?
A: *Yoshi-P shows off new hairstyle images in the video.

We’ve been saying that basically everything will be in at Beta, but there is a possibility that we can’t finalize some parts of animations and have to include some placeholder equipment.

We’re converting a ton of things right now, so it’s pretty close as to whether or not we’ll make it in time.

[1:09:55]
Q: In the 3rd Players’ Poll, there was a question about new races and clans. What kind of race will be implemented and when? Also, will we see Viera or beastmen/lizardmen?
A: The Viera are extremely popular amongst our overseas players, so we’re really thinking hard about this one. We’d also been considering a dragon-blood tribe – something more beastman or reptilian, a direction that we haven’t really tried in a FINAL FANTASY before.I guess I was leaning towards what in Japan would be considered a Western design, but our North American players have also been pretty vocal in their requests for the Viera race. We would like to look into it. You can assume it would be for an expansion pack.

[1:11:47]
Q: When PVP is implemented, will it be possible to face off against Yoshi-P and everyone?
A: We’ve actually expanded the battle team just recently. And there are quite a lot of them that have played PVP games with me. We’ve put a lot of work into the system, including the core design, so, yeah, we’d love to take part.

Maybe I’ll participate incognito. Or maybe the development team will try copying their characters over to characters with different names during events. Regardless, I’m really motivated to play FFXIV: ARR myself, and I’m really, really looking forward to it. I’m logging in for the Alpha Tests as often as possible so I can talk with everyone. Even for the full release, I would like to do this. By playing the game ourselves it really helps us see where the balance is off, and gives us a more direct understanding of player feedback. I’m serious when I say we will do this - as much as the dev schedule allows.

I’d really like to plan events for the future where players can battle the development team and Wada.
Since everyone’s feedback on battle balance is extremely important, especially the perspectives of the top tier players, I’m wondering if we could have a feedback exchange meeting.

I honestly would like to proactively have real live communication between the development team and the community.

[1:15:30]
Q: Will there be map variations that follow seasonal trends like flowers blossoming on trees, leaves changing color, and leaves falling from trees depending on the area?
A: It’s rather difficult since Eorzean time and Earth time are a bit different. The time of a single day is quick. Also if we are to match the seasons, do we match it to Japan? Do we match it to the northern hemisphere? By having as many seasonal events as possible and decorating a variety of places, we would like to match the mood of the seasons in Japan, since it is a Japanese made game after all.

Honestly, you’ve all seen various graphics so far and we built those in just a year and a half from scratch.

Adding seasons for every variation would be a bit much. We do have a lot of weather types though. However, it depends on the region. There was something that was never seen before in the trailer with Behemoth…the snowy mountains. We’ve been preparing stuff like this from the start, so we hope you can experience the special touches in each of the regions.

[1:16:57]
Q: Are there are plans to expand inventory size? For example, furniture for our houses, locker expansion quests and so on. And will we be able to send items to our mules easily?
A: Having players carrying around lots of items eats into real time memory, so we don’t have plans to expand the player’s inventory, but we do have plans for other storage. For example, storage boxes that you can put in your house. There will be joint safes for free companies, and also quite a bit of space on retainers, so you can summon them to pick up/drop off items.

There’ll be more gear sets in the future, so naturally, we mean to introduce ways for players to expand their storage, through quests and such.

In regards to sending items, I believe our alpha testers will understand this feature a bit. Right now we’ve made it so that you can only send things to friends. This is done via character IDs, which means that if you know the IDs for the characters on your account, this is already possible.

The thing is, this would introduce elements that make it easy for gil-farmers to do what they do. However, we have certain specs in place that should prevent this from becoming a major issue. First, there will be more rewards for everyone. Second, certain items will be untradable, like gear with spiritbond. If the demand is high, I believe we can do it.

[1:19:39]
Q: When will NA and EU players be able to participate in the alpha test?
A: We’ve just conclude phase one of testing.

First off, we’ve managed to eliminate all the critical issues that surfaced due to heavy server stress, which is caused by an increase in players. So, right now, we’re safely running the game with around 800 people in a single zone.

This number applies not only to players, but enemies too. Here we have around 700, with 400 battles taking place simultaneously. That’s what we’re having our testers do right now. It’s come to light that the server becomes laggy when we go past the 800-player mark.

We’ve managed to identify the top 20 causes for this, and will be working to address the issues next week, along with all the bugs our alpha testers have submitted. We’ll temporarily stop alpha testing next week. The test has been taking place on two worlds already, and we’ll pick things up the week after for around five days. If everything looks okay, we’ll move to the global phase the week after that. We’ll probably be keeping the servers open 24 hours for our overseas players and for the aging test, and hope to have everyone participate from 11/26. We’re planning to give out a lot of accounts.

[1:23:33]
Q: Will it be possible to get married? Also, will same-*** marriages be possible?
A: We previously released a screenshot of a sanctum in the woods.

So when the era came to an end, something happened that led to the sanctum being rediscovered. So what is this place for? Well, in creating a world, we wanted put anything in it that is close to reality. Marriage is one of those things. That’s why we built the sanctum--so that characters and players can get married. The system for weddings--proper services and such--might not be available right from the beginning. It’ll most likely be added in a patch. However, we’ve already prepared a place for it.

As for same-*** marriage, this is an extremely controversial topic that has been under discussion in the MMO world for the past few years. First we would like to start out with opposite-*** marriage, and then consider the feedback from our players in order to make a careful decision.I can’t say whether or not it will be possible at this point in time. I’d like to keep dialog open with our players as we deliberate the matter.

[1:25:44]
Q: What’s the countdown that’s happening on the right side of the screen?
A: This is telling me that I have been invited to a party. Once the internal clock hits 0 for this, the party invite will automatically be declined. The number is showing how many invites I have received.

[1:27:03]
Q: Will we be able to dye artifact and sentinel armor or gear with yellow or green item names?
A: There’ll be dyes that you can readily buy from NPCs, and then those that can only be made through the combined effort of gatherers and crafters. Dyes won’t be permanent--you’ll be able to dye your equipment over and over again. So let’s say you’ve been wearing red all week and feel like a change. It’d be a simple matter to recolor it yellow.

There’ll be 24 colors at the start, I believe. In addition, there will be rare shades. In order to make these, you’ll need the expertise of gatherers and crafters. If someone happens to be selling the color you want at the market wards, you can also get a hold of it there. Players will have a lot of freedom.

Also, I’m aware of the community discussion on using sliders to choose colors during character creation. The problem with this is that the tip of the polygon, called vertex color, which functions as the visual representation of the color selected is easily distorted by lighting. Therefore, we’re limiting the color selection to bring out the best of each color. Technically, we can implement all 65,535 colors, but realistically speaking, it’s impossible to tell the difference between similar colors.

Also, you won’t be able to color every single area on your armor. For example, if there’s a bit of chainmail showing around the arms, that bit of chainmail won’t be dyeable. This is because--let's be honest here--if I colored myself entirely in yellow, I won’t look that cool. Our character modelers decide what parts can or can’t be dyed, and this is a very involved task.

To answer the part on dyeing artifacts, we plan on keeping their colors as they are for a while. This is because we want to preserve their image, especially early on. Eventually, when people get used to the design or new sets of artifacts are introduced, the option to change colors will become available. That’s our current plan.

[1:31:45]
Q: Characters created from scratch in A Realm Reborn will start out with the new starting gear. Will existing characters brought in from Version 1.0 be able to obtain the same gear?
A: Yes they will!

[1:32:25]
Q: In a related question, will higher level race-specific gear be implemented?
A: We don’t have any plans for the start of A Realm Reborn, but we’ll definitely look into adding such gear later on if there’s enough demand.

Also, this may be a bit early to share, but there are plans for a vanity system called “katagami” (dress pattern) that allows you to adjust your appearance. Say your role is a tank, and you like wearing your artifact armor, but prefer the stats on your Darklight gear. In this case, you can change the appearance of the latter to be like the former. I’m not sure yet when this feature will be ready. It’ll depend on our progress.

[1:34:47]
Q: If you want to play the PC version on a PS3, will you still have to purchase the registration code for the PS3 version?
A: In that case, I’m very sorry but you will have to purchase a registration code for the PS3 version. However, you will be able to play on the PS3 with the same character you created on the PC.

[1:36:51]
Q: A lot of people are saying that they tried to clear “The Raven, Nevermore” but couldn’t manage to before the end. So, will we be able to challenge “The Raven, Nevermore” in ARR?
A: This content was made for our current players and was only intended for 1.0. It would also clash with the main story if it were still playable.

[1:37:42]
Q: Will there be a way to obtain primal weapons in ARR?
A: Yes, there will be a way to do so.

[1:38:04]
Q: Will arcanists be able to use their grimoires to summon familiars other than Carbuncle? Can you tell us new information on the primal and relic weapons for arcanists and summoners?
A: As an arcanist, you’ll be focused on Carby. Now, some may assume that we won’t expand the arcanist summons in the future, but that’s not my intention. This is just something to start with. Arcanists can summon different types of Carbuncles. Basically for arcanists, play will revolve around using the different types of Carbuncles. When you unlock the summoner job, your summons will harness the power of the primals.

There will be summoner AF and class specific equipment.

*Video shows off art of the arcanist’s grimoire.

[1:41:58]
Q: Can we have an updated roadmap and schedule for the start of the Beta Test to the release of ARR?
A: Honestly speaking, according to the roadmap that we released December 2011, we are currently two months and two weeks behind schedule. We’ve been working frantically to develop this game for a long time, and have just barely managed to stay on track until recently. However, when I was finally able to test the alpha version myself two and a half months ago, I realized that there were a ton of aspects I wanted to change. This goes for the UI, the display around the characters, and also the graphics. Version 1.0 started out like this as well, and I felt that we couldn’t release it in that state.

I felt that if we can’t make something that I can at least enjoy as a gamer, it’s...I mean, even if it’s just alpha stress testing, if we don’t provide that level of quality to our customers, then it’s no good. I made that clear to the team. And so we’ve refined the alpha version to this point and will approach the beta with the same attitude.

Of course, now that 1.0 has ended, we want to deliver ARR to the players quickly. However, we have seen some world class MMOs released in this past year, or year and a half, such as Rift, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars 2, and so forth. The staff and I have spent sleepless nights looking into these titles, and we feel that, this time, we want to be able to compete with these world-class games--and we don’t want to lose. For now, we ask that you give us more time to make adjustments, and we hope to release a new roadmap around the end of November or beginning of December. As for the beta test, we’re hoping to start beta phase one at the end of January or the beginning of February. We’ve already begun work, so we ask for your patience in the meantime.

In return, to ensure that many people can take part in the alpha test, as soon as we have entered the aging test, we’ll do our best to keep the servers open 24 hours so that everyone can experience it, so please give us a little more time. We want this to be a great game. That’s all I have to say about our progress up until now.



http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/58180-Letter-from-the-Producer-LIVE-Part-IV-Q-A-Summary
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#2 Nov 19 2012 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
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Same *** marriage in a video game is about as controversial as heterosexual boys insisting on playing female avatars. Don't like it don't look.
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Sour Cherry
#3 Nov 19 2012 at 8:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, can't say I'm happy that SE still considers this a sensitive issue, but I guess that's just a reflection of Japanese views.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

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#4 Nov 19 2012 at 9:02 PM Rating: Good
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Come on... this letter has so much more information that is actually interesting and relevant to gameplay.

The free company housing system is really fascinating. They are putting a lot of thought into it. They named a bunch of diverse different things from agriculture, furniture, trophies, parks, different bonuses, etc...

Edited, Nov 19th 2012 10:25pm by kainsilv
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#5 Nov 19 2012 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Yeah, can't say I'm happy that SE still considers this a sensitive issue, but I guess that's just a reflection of Japanese views.


That's a curious statement. I am Japanese American. I understand traditional Japanese values. I also understand traditional American values. I wonder what the true reasoning is? I personally feel Nippon is more "look the other way" than the red .vs blue mentality this great country has become. Not saying one way or the other. Just curious.
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Sour Cherry
#6 Nov 19 2012 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Q: Will my character's chest be bouncy?

A: In programming terms, so-called "skeletons" are implemented around the characters *******. So, yes, they will move.

Actually, they currently move a bit now in the alpha version. We are going to make adjustments to each race to the extent that they aren't over the top.


In the first place, I can't even believe that was a question, but I'm relieved to hear they're going for realism and not fan-service. All this talk about breast physics was giving me Vietnam flashbacks to DoA.
#7 Nov 19 2012 at 9:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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I really wish they'd just leave marriage out altogether. It seems unnecessary.
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#8 Nov 19 2012 at 10:24 PM Rating: Decent
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ShindaUsagi wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Yeah, can't say I'm happy that SE still considers this a sensitive issue, but I guess that's just a reflection of Japanese views.


That's a curious statement. I am Japanese American. I understand traditional Japanese values. I also understand traditional American values. I wonder what the true reasoning is? I personally feel Nippon is more "look the other way" than the red .vs blue mentality this great country has become. Not saying one way or the other. Just curious.


It's not just a red vs blue thing - it's also a greatly widening generational gap. It's young versus old. In fifty years, we'll wonder WTF was wrong with everyone in 2012, just like a good majority wonder WTF was wrong with everyone prior to 1965.
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#9 Nov 19 2012 at 11:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
I really wish they'd just leave marriage out altogether. It seems unnecessary.

Pretty much this. I can understand the fight IRL for marriage equality because of the obvious benefits, but in a game it's just another status or title and is pretty pointless.

Yoshi, you had me at 'boobs will move'. Do want.


Edited, Nov 20th 2012 12:43am by FilthMcNasty
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#10 Nov 20 2012 at 1:28 AM Rating: Good
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kainsilv wrote:
Come on... this letter has so much more information that is actually interesting and relevant to gameplay.

The free company housing system is really fascinating. They are putting a lot of thought into it. They named a bunch of diverse different things from agriculture, furniture, trophies, parks, different bonuses, etc...


And yet this is the deciding factor that changes "no" votes to "yes":

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Yoshi, you had me at 'boobs will move'. Do want.


Go figure. Smiley: rolleyes
#11 Nov 20 2012 at 2:19 AM Rating: Good
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Boobs are good like rainbows are good.... the world just seems like it would be so much emptier without them
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#12 Nov 20 2012 at 3:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Why does Eorzea have to reflect the marriage laws of the real world? I think some things simply don't fit the setting. I also consider medieval movies where Robin Hood is aided by his black friend, his hispanic half-sister and an asian swordmaster unfitting. Although I generally like black friends, asian swordmasters, and especially hispanic half-sisters. Sorry for political incorrectness in fantasy video games, I guess?
#13 Nov 20 2012 at 3:25 AM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
Boobs are good like rainbows are good.... the world just seems like it would be so much emptier without them

My hands are so much emptier...

Rinsui wrote:
Although I generally like black friends, asian swordmasters, and especially hispanic half-sisters.

I'm black with a hispanic half-sister and I'm looking for an asian swordsman to be my sidekick. Only qualifications are liking boobs. Interested?
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#14 Nov 20 2012 at 5:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm black with a hispanic half-sister and I'm looking for an asian swordsman to be my sidekick. Only qualifications are liking boobs. Interested?

Depends on your hispanic half-sister. And her opinion on asian swordsmen.
#15 Nov 20 2012 at 5:54 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
I'm black with a hispanic half-sister and I'm looking for an asian swordsman to be my sidekick. Only qualifications are liking boobs. Interested?

Depends on your hispanic half-sister. And her opinion on asian swordsmen.

I think she's ok with asians and swordsmen, but I'm not sure about a combination of the two. She says she's allergic to pretzels, but I think she just doesn't like them because they confuse her. She's the only person I know who is licensed to drive a motorcycle with a double-seater sidecar and she's a really good driver for a woman(or a hispanic, or or a hispanic woman... whichever is less offensive), but she's stasibasiphobic so you will be responsible for carrying her whenever necessary. Normally I would drive, but my license was revoked for repeated jay-walking.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#16 Nov 20 2012 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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That's a curious statement. I am Japanese American. I understand traditional Japanese values. I also understand traditional American values. I wonder what the true reasoning is? I personally feel Nippon is more "look the other way" than the red .vs blue mentality this great country has become. Not saying one way or the other. Just curious.


I chose the word "guess" carefully. I honestly don't know why they're treating it as a sensitive issue... maybe less to do with their views than their perception of American views. My initial reaction was, "People want to be able to *** marry in a video game, let them. Are they really expecting some big blowback?"

Then, I also don't really vibe with the sentiment that, "This doesn't interest me/I don't want it, so I actively hope that they don't add it for others." To me, if someone wants to do or be something in a game, and it doesn't break the balance of the game, then if it's an easy thing to give them, you do it.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#17 Nov 20 2012 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Never got married in a game though I think it's just an interesting little thing for certain people. And as cruddy as it is I can understand their hesitation to implement *** marriage. The people against it will be more vocal than the people for it as that is the way it usually works.

The Free Company housing looks absolutely incredible. If they get the player base to support it and people have huge mansions with Grand Company dedication, it'll really give this game that form of depth that makes it feel like a home. I can already picture heading in to my free company's mansion and there is a giant skull of some dragon we slayed accenting the living room. That's the kind of stuff hardcore players kill for.

The only thing out of all of the letter that I am a bit iffy on is the vanity stuff. I understand vanity in the way of downtime showing off. Like how in 11 I used to equip AF when I would bazaar or craft. But if in battle, you're able to vanity the equipment you wear, I'm not the biggest fan of that. Feels like to me whatever you equip for battle, that is how you should look. But regardless, it's a very Final Fantasy thing. No matter what you equipped to the characters in single player FFs, they always just wore their starting gear.
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#18 Nov 20 2012 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Yeah, can't say I'm happy that SE still considers this a sensitive issue, but I guess that's just a reflection of Japanese views.


Perhaps, but I also remember Bioware promising same-*** relationships and whatnot in SW:ToR. When it came close to launch and it was announced it wouldn't be in on release it blew up majorly in their face. It's come back to bite them in the *** so many times that they simply shut down the discussion every time it pops up.

Yoshi-P, and SE by extension, probably actually looks at the world and sees that it's better just to flat out state out controversial a topic it is and that it's being discussed. Simple, direct, no promises that'll offend either side, and moved onto the next topic.

Wint wrote:
I really wish they'd just leave marriage out altogether. It seems unnecessary.


They can't.

*** marriage has become such a huge political issue that when asked about it any business simply *can't* ignore the issue. As stupid as we both agree with the topic being asked in a video game (and we both know why Wint) is, it's done its fair share of damage to other businesses in the past. This includes video game companies like Bioware and Blizzard.

catwho wrote:
It's not just a red vs blue thing - it's also a greatly widening generational gap. It's young versus old. In fifty years, we'll wonder WTF was wrong with everyone in 2012, just like a good majority wonder WTF was wrong with everyone prior to 1965.


Pretty much.
#19 Nov 20 2012 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
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if someone wants to do or be something in a game, and it doesn't break the balance of the game, then if it's an easy thing to give them, you do it.


I care **** about same-*** marriage, if they find a convincing way to integrate it into the general lore of the game, but your assessment is idiotic. If someone wants purple loli robots in maid costumes, you do it?

...and I don't want your answer, Filth. ^.-/
#20 Nov 20 2012 at 4:37 PM Rating: Default
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I would have prefered questions about the possibility of the game ending up on Wii U, what specific Android/Apple Apps they envisioned, what their 5 year plan is, etc...

Hopefully the marriage thing doesn't end up being a big deal like some of the media is trying to push, but most people I know didn't use the feature in XI except to get the rings... not for a bond so I doubt most gamers care... I know some of my friends in the game are ***, and while I do care how they feel about the situation I don't think I've heard anything that hints at it being a deal breaker. However, if we can marry cross species I don't see what the big deal is considering pre-Male Miqote/Female Roegadyn (I can never spell that right) most female chars are men anyway.
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#21 Nov 20 2012 at 9:36 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
If someone wants purple loli robots in maid costumes, you do it?

...and I don't want your answer, Filth. ^.-/


I'm not a big fan of the grape flavored lolibots Smiley: sly
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#22 Nov 21 2012 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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I care sh*t about same-*** marriage, if they find a convincing way to integrate it into the general lore of the game, but your assessment is idiotic. If someone wants purple loli robots in maid costumes, you do it?


You can't read between the lines, I guess? Developmental resource management is important, obviously. But if you're ALREADY making red loli robots in maid costumes, and you can easily add purple, then yes, you do it. From a programming standpoint, it actually takes more work to distinguish between male and females for the purpose of weddings. It's easier to not distinguish between the two.

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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#23 Nov 21 2012 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi, I would think it's an "If X then Y" code line... IE Male + Female = Married Bonus, but if *** then it's still Male + Male = Married Bonus or Female + Female = Married Bonus no? I'm not a programmer, I've said before that I barely got through my coding class in school and my final project was something like 40 lines longer than everyone elses... for a simple poker game. So I honestly don't know, but I'm assuming no matter what the code is the same.
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#24 Nov 21 2012 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
But if you're ALREADY making red loli robots in maid costumes, and you can easily add purple, then yes, you do it. From a programming standpoint, it actually takes more work to distinguish between male and females for the purpose of weddings. It's easier to not distinguish between the two.

It's easier to exclude something from a game that many people, regardless of how ignorant we think it might be, would take offense to.


Edited, Nov 21st 2012 3:32pm by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#25 Nov 21 2012 at 2:42 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
You can't read between the lines, I guess? Developmental resource management is important, obviously. But if you're ALREADY making red loli robots in maid costumes, and you can easily add purple, then yes, you do it. From a programming standpoint, it actually takes more work to distinguish between male and females for the purpose of weddings. It's easier to not distinguish between the two.


You're totally missing the point if you think the primary issue with lolita robot maids is related to resource management.
I thought that was obvious.
(...)
Well, obviously it was, as EVEN FILTH got it right, hahahaha! ^.^/
#26 Nov 21 2012 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
It's not just a red vs blue thing - it's also a greatly widening generational gap. It's young versus old. In fifty years, we'll wonder WTF was wrong with everyone in 2012, just like a good majority wonder WTF was wrong with everyone prior to 1965.


Ah... The moral slider bar. It really depnds on if you believe morals are fixed values or a slider bar that can be adjusted based on situation or individual. Maybe the next generation MMOs will have something similar.
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#27 Nov 21 2012 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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interesting to see that some people think it's odd or out of place to want to live life and play games free from discrimination.

News flash, it is a big deal for some people that they are treated like normal human beings and not like weird freaks who are offensive.

I don't know, maybe if it was your right to exist that other people were debating you would see it as a big deal too. I'd love to see games, being fantasy based, leading the way on equality, cause they have every excuse to do so.
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#28 Nov 21 2012 at 8:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi, I would think it's an "If X then Y" code line... IE Male + Female = Married Bonus, but if *** then it's still Male + Male = Married Bonus or Female + Female = Married Bonus no? I'm not a programmer, I've said before that I barely got through my coding class in school and my final project was something like 40 lines longer than everyone elses... for a simple poker game. So I honestly don't know, but I'm assuming no matter what the code is the same.


The point is, you don't have to program for gender at all. "Players can marry other players," requires less specification than "If Male select marry target and Female confirm, Then marry" (something roughly like that). It's possibly much messier than that if they didn't program gender well for text inserts... the code might treat every race/gender combo separately, meaning every possible combination that needs to be approved has to have code.

@Rinsui; Yes, I got that part of your argument was that things which ruin the atmosphere shouldn't be included. I just didn't think anyone needed me to slap them in the face with the reason why that isn't relevant to my point, or your criticism of it.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#29 Nov 21 2012 at 9:11 PM Rating: Good
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Gender is already programed... (or should be anyway, I can't remeber if an NPC said HE/SHE instead of Perrin... but most gmaes have an NPC or two that do).

I'm honestly curious. I'm definately not saying I'm right, but in my mind these things are pretty much in code already.
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#30 Nov 21 2012 at 11:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
Well, obviously it was, as EVEN FILTH got it right, hahahaha! ^.^/

I don't even have to take swipes at XIV anymore to be the **** of people's jokes. Today is a glorious day!
kainsilv wrote:
It really depnds on if you believe morals are fixed values or a slider bar that can be adjusted based on situation or individual.

JPs agree... sliders are for boobs onry.
Olorinus wrote:
I'd love to see games, being fantasy based, leading the way on equality, cause they have every excuse to do so.

Is this my cue to revive the 'Why can't my Galka have as much INT as a Tarutaru' debate? Seems fitting since we're talking about videogame equality.
Kachi wrote:
The point is, you don't have to program for gender at all. "Players can marry other players," requires less specification than "If Male select marry target and Female confirm, Then marry" (something roughly like that).

To be fair, it's also just as easy to leave it out altogether, which I honestly believe to be the best option. It's not like the time wouldn't be better spent elsewhere.


Edited, Nov 22nd 2012 12:11am by FilthMcNasty
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#31 Nov 22 2012 at 3:06 AM Rating: Decent
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News flash, it is a big deal for some people that they are treated like normal human beings and not like weird freaks who are offensive.
(...) I'd love to see games, being fantasy based, leading the way on equality, cause they have every excuse to do so.


Yes, I think I can relate to that standpoint. And as I said: if they manage to reconcile same-gender marriage (and not just same-gender "eternal partnership") with a medieval fantasy world, I don't mind the slightest bit. I guess that point did require clarification, after all.

Perhaps I am also not in the position to point out that players and authorities in less progressive countries (China?) might disagree, because that's what latent homophobes normally do to justify and cover up their own issues. Well, I'm going to risk this stigma nonetheless, because it is the only rational argument against the idea I can think of at the moment.

...

And since we're in an anonymous place anyway, I might as well disclose my standpoint on the matter in real life. Perhaps the one or the other of you is kind enough to challenge and rectify my position.

As far as I know, marriage was primarily "invented" as a social contract that secured females the resources and protection of their husbands, and husbands (sometimes) the fidelity of their wives. The basic idea was that mutual, and, if necessary: exclusive support increased the likelihood of survival for both and their offspring. Modern laws still reflect this basic idea by introducing tax cuts and special regulations that intend to facilitate and secure the formation of families, because families are perceived as the smallest generative unit for the survival of society as a whole (at least that is my personal interpretation). Insofar as same-gender couples may, in principle, also voluntarily agree to engage in a legal contract that regulates their mutual responsibilities and duties, and thus contributes to the stability of society as a whole, corresponding legal contracts (formal partnerships) are desirable.

HOWEVER (the important stuff always comes after the "however"):

There's something wrong with marriage in general, and it's not the ****'s fault. Throughout the history of mankind, and with very few exceptions, marriage was always linked to the implicit assumption of generative productivity, and many of the tax cuts and beneficial regulations for families (e.g., inheritance jurisdiction, special status in court hearings... etc.etc.) were introduced to make the challenging task of raising children a bit less completely exhausting, and a bit more predictable. The problem is that the assumed strong link between marriage/children/lifelong mutual responsibilities does no more reflect contemporary reality. Exaggerating, one could say that today, many people marry for the party, the presents, and the tax cuts, but not out of the intention to found a generative family.

The big injustice I see with the current system is that families without children benefit just as much from many of the special facilitations that were originally intended to benefit those who needed special support, because they had decided to sacrifice decades of their generative power to raise children. Childless double-earner career couples don't need special support. They can easily look after themselves.

In my opinion, then, it is of imperative necessity to put same-gender couples on the exact same legal footing as childless mixed-gender couples. And same-gender couples with children on the exact same legal footing with mixed-gender couples with children (the question then is whether to allow adoptions by same-gender couples). And it is advised to re-examine the distribution of special legal rights between childless and generative couples, no matter of gender combinations.

So in as far as same-gender couples demand the highly symbolic acceptance of their bond in the form of full-fledged legal marriage, I am against it. Not because I consider their union in any way wrong. But because it is not only a symbolic act. Full-fledged legal marriage provides special rights and duties that, in my humble opinion, were introduced especially to support generative families. In the same vein, I advocate that non-generative families (that is, families without children) are stripped of the same rights and duties, which obviously don't apply to them. Not to punish them. But because those rights and duties were not introduced for them in the first place. Now figure what definitely won't happen.

...

I think that's it. Happy loophole-hunting!
#32 Nov 22 2012 at 4:47 AM Rating: Good
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Many of those benefits came about when wives stayed in the home raising the family and we left that era a long time ago. Many of the benefits and rights afforded under marriage need to be looked at and updated anyway so they may as well revise them and at the least, include the no-brainers for civil unions. Unions aren't even recognized on the federal level so until that happens, no progress will be made on that front.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#33 Nov 22 2012 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow. Looks like SE knows how to grab the attention of the media after all: ^^
http://www.gamespot.com/news/square-enix-considering-same-***-marriage-for-final-fantasy-xiv-6400405
#34 Nov 22 2012 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
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If two people want to be married to each other, I think they should be able to do so. As the quip goes: There's no reason homosexuals shouldn't be able to experience that much misery too. lol

The quote looks like another one of SE's non-commital answers, but I'm glad they're not just saying "No.

It is also nice to read an article which just mentions the rebuilding, and doesn't add salt to the wound by bringing up the abject failure that caused it.
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#35 Nov 23 2012 at 9:48 AM Rating: Default
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Gender is already programed... (or should be anyway, I can't remeber if an NPC said HE/SHE instead of Perrin... but most gmaes have an NPC or two that do).

I'm honestly curious. I'm definately not saying I'm right, but in my mind these things are pretty much in code already.


I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't. Frequently they fall back on using the player name, and when they need a generic pronoun they'll use things like "this adventurer." Regardless, having that information coded for the purposes of text recall does not necessarily make it easily extensible to being the foundation of another system. It depends on how they originally coded it, which in the case of SE, I can only infer that it's not particularly clean code. In reality they have to tie that programming into the user interface, they have to specify what the output will be in the case of an ineligible couple of players (If there's an "if yes, then," they have to program an "if no, then"), they may have to animate an NPC for both cases, etc...
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#36 Nov 23 2012 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
I care sh*t about same-*** marriage, if they find a convincing way to integrate it into the general lore of the game


The lore of the game? What, we need a cutscene detailing the history of Eorzean civil rights or something? We didn't need a lore justification for feathered bangs and dyed hair, for armour's revealing shape-changing properties whenever it detects a female character's skin, or for goddamned wooden whistles materializing chocobos out of thin air! Smiley: lol

My point is that there's no need to "integrate [same-*** marriage] into the general lore of the game." You put it in, and it's there; done.

Here's your lore: "In Eorzea people get married if they want."
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#37 Nov 23 2012 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
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My point is that there's no need to "integrate [same-*** marriage] into the general lore of the game." You put it in, and it's there; done.
Here's your lore: "In Eorzea people get married if they want."

Umm-humm. I am not aware of any society that allowed homosexuals to marry before the latter half of the 20th century. My point is that I think such a relatively new and revolutionary concept warrants some lore for explanation in a medieval-themed fantasy world. Because the concept is new to most people on this planet. Just as dragons, fairies and pixies require their lore, because they are (still) not the norm.
#38 Nov 23 2012 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think there needs to be lore either. By creating a backstory, it feels as though they're trying to provide justification for it. I don't think they need to justify anything. It should simply be implemented because it should be so. Women have had a hard time of it in the last 75 to 100 years or so too, but we don't have to have a creative back story for why female characters are playable.

And though homosexual marriage has been only "legal" recently, I think you're off by saying the concept of it is fairly new. I'm sure homosexuals have wanted to be married for a very long time. It's only been in recent years that they've been able to speak about it more openly without retribution.

I feel it makes a stronger statement to just add it in without a lot of fuss. I think them not making a big deal about it cements they're position as "pro". Of course, that could be why they're so non-commital about it.

ETA: I remember having a VERY similar conversation back when XI was in beta too.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2012 1:05pm by LebargeX
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We secretly replaced your tank wemelchor with Foldgers Crystal's. Let's see what happens.

#39 Nov 23 2012 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Edited out. Not continuing with discussion.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2012 1:46pm by Elionara
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
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Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#40 Nov 23 2012 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
My point is that there's no need to "integrate [same-*** marriage] into the general lore of the game." You put it in, and it's there; done.
Here's your lore: "In Eorzea people get married if they want."

Umm-humm. I am not aware of any society that allowed homosexuals to marry before the latter half of the 20th century. My point is that I think such a relatively new and revolutionary concept warrants some lore for explanation in a medieval-themed fantasy world. Because the concept is new to most people on this planet. Just as dragons, fairies and pixies require their lore, because they are (still) not the norm.


I fail to see how the massive stupidity of millions of humans across the planet correlates with a fantasy (you know, imaginary?) world and their rules. The only reason it's been 'illegal' for centuries is because people are stupid enough to look at one simple line in a book that was written by bitter clergymen centuries ago and listen to hate spewing like good little sheep.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2012 4:40pm by Viertel
#41 Nov 23 2012 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Edited out. Not continuing with discussion.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2012 1:47pm by Elionara
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#42 Nov 23 2012 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
My point is that there's no need to "integrate [same-*** marriage] into the general lore of the game." You put it in, and it's there; done.
Here's your lore: "In Eorzea people get married if they want."

Umm-humm. I am not aware of any society that allowed homosexuals to marry before the latter half of the 20th century. My point is that I think such a relatively new and revolutionary concept warrants some lore for explanation in a medieval-themed fantasy world. Because the concept is new to most people on this planet. Just as dragons, fairies and pixies require their lore, because they are (still) not the norm.


it's called Final FANTASY. It's not set in medieval Europe. It is set in a fantasy land. Where we don't need to apply the same illogic of ignorance that marred our own history.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#43 Nov 23 2012 at 4:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
My point is that there's no need to "integrate [same-*** marriage] into the general lore of the game." You put it in, and it's there; done.
Here's your lore: "In Eorzea people get married if they want."

Umm-humm. I am not aware of any society that allowed homosexuals to marry before the latter half of the 20th century. My point is that I think such a relatively new and revolutionary concept warrants some lore for explanation in a medieval-themed fantasy world. Because the concept is new to most people on this planet. Just as dragons, fairies and pixies require their lore, because they are (still) not the norm.


it's called Final FANTASY. It's not set in medieval Europe. It is set in a fantasy land. Where we don't need to apply the same illogic of ignorance that marred our own history.

I don't think I've ever heard of concepts so closely tied to religion working well in a videogame. Even if I was sure it could be done, I'm not certain it's something I'd like to see. I don't think it's illogical to be curious about why and how it would come about that marriage is meaningful enough to include in XIV, regardless of who can participate.

There is a long list of benefits that come along with getting married in real life. I can't find any real reason to get married in a game.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#44 Nov 23 2012 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
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There's nothing historically or fantastically problematic about homosexual relationships. They've existed for millenia in either. Wrangling it into the modern or even historic conception of marriage misses the point rather completely. If you want to have a procedure by which two people are united in love or whatever such bullsh*t, whether you call it marriage or invent some generic fantasy term, there's really only two choices: they are recognized, or they aren't. Short of having a political agenda or just wanting to pretend like homosexuality doesn't exist, there's no reason they shouldn't be recognized.

Quote:
I can't find any real reason to get married in a game.


I couldn't find any real reason why I'd want to play half of the jobs in FFXI. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be there for the people that do want them.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2012 3:06pm by Kachi
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#45 Nov 23 2012 at 5:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
I can't find any real reason to get married in a game.


I couldn't find any real reason why I'd want to play half of the jobs in FFXI. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be there for the people that do want them.

Beating up strawman is fun.

Nothing about my post suggested that some jobs shouldn't be included. All jobs, regardless of personal preference, add value to the game. So again I ask, what value does marriage(***, straight, transgendered or otherwise) add to the game?

I get your point Kachi, I really do, but it's not related to the topic. You may not enjoy a particular job in XI, but you can find merit in the dynamic that they add to the game. I challenge you to do the same for adding the concept of matrimony.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#46 Nov 23 2012 at 5:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Disappointed. If someone doesn't like *** marriage, the easiest solution is to not marry someone of the same-***. Works just as well in video games as it does in real life. Don't know if this is the typical "we don't want to offend anybody, but it's OK if we offend *** people" reaction or an actual aversion to same-*** marriage from the developers. Hope it's not the latter, though the former is hardly any better.

Is marriage a make or break thing? No. But neither is gear color dye or different hairstyles. They don't restrict wearing pink to female avatars, why restrict marriage to heterosexual ones? It very well may be true that they would have offended somebody no matter what they did. But they had to pick between people who want to make a choice for themselves and people who cant bear someone else having a choice. They made the wrong decision.
#47 Nov 23 2012 at 6:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Redyoshi wrote:
Is marriage a make or break thing? No. But neither is gear color dye or different hairstyles. They don't restrict wearing pink to female avatars, why restrict marriage to heterosexual ones? It very well may be true that they would have offended somebody no matter what they did. But they had to pick between people who want to make a choice for themselves and people who cant bear someone else having a choice. They made the wrong decision.

Giving people choices that may be offensive to others is the wrong decision. Still waiting for someone to come up with a valid reason to include marriage at all.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#48 Nov 23 2012 at 8:46 PM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

Giving people choices that may be offensive to others is the wrong decision. Still waiting for someone to come up with a valid reason to include marriage at all.


Because the feature will be used. It's as simple as that.
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#49 Nov 23 2012 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

Giving people choices that may be offensive to others is the wrong decision. Still waiting for someone to come up with a valid reason to include marriage at all.

There isn't any. Just as there isn't any reason for customizing armor colors or adding different hairstyles or writing text for NPCs who don't give quests. There's no reason for different models for monsters or witty names for notorious ones. No reason for seasonal events that drop equipment with +5 water resistance, no reason for anything at all. It's a game, not a starship. We have all those things because people find them fun. No one is going to be able to convince you that an in game marriage is worthwhile because you obviously do not see them as fun. That's OK, I detest everything pumpkin flavored and remain perpetually perplexed that people go crazy over the vile stuff every fall.

Some people role play, others obsess over the lore, still others mash through every annoying conversation so they can get back to slashing things. We all have choices, everyone has fun in different ways. When you can do something small, like adding marriages for everyone instead of just some people, you add to the choices and add to the fun. Is there a possibility that some people may be offended about things that other people are doing that do not involve them in any way? Sure.

When Dragon Age 2 came out there was kind of a similar issue. Someone had complained that there were same *** romances in the game (though he seemed to be mostly concerned about m2m ones). One of the game's designer's had a pretty good response:
David Gaider, lead writer of Dragon Age 2 wrote:
[T]he person who says that the only way to please them is to restrict options for others is, if you ask me, the one who deserves it least.
Of course there were other problems with DA2, but I think that's the best approach to designing a game for a wide audience. You can't please everyone, so please the people whose fun doesn't depend on other people not having it.
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#50 Nov 23 2012 at 10:26 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Nothing about my post suggested that some jobs shouldn't be included. All jobs, regardless of personal preference, add value to the game. So again I ask, what value does marriage(***, straight, transgendered or otherwise) add to the game?

I get your point Kachi, I really do, but it's not related to the topic. You may not enjoy a particular job in XI, but you can find merit in the dynamic that they add to the game. I challenge you to do the same for adding the concept of matrimony.


It seems that you don't get my point at all. A lot of the merit that they add to the game isn't innately mechanical... many of them fulfill a virtually identical role. What they add is flavor to the world. Some players really appreciate roleplaying elements like marriage. That is value.

You assumed that because you don't value them, that they aren't valuable. That was my point.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#51 Nov 24 2012 at 5:36 AM Rating: Decent
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didnt they have a *** *** scene in Mass Effect... 3?
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